I was wandering around the engineering labs at Berkeley recently and saw a really cool robot that could solve a Rubik's cube in just a few seconds. It was built by some undergrads as their senior project.
>>7818294 No, theres a reason I mention work ethic. What kind of work do you think goes into a project that counts as a big part of your grade?
Do you think I pick up a Calculus for Engineers book and solve the problems and then turn it in? It is pretty much a research project where you are just not expected to come up with something completely new. The same way your shitty handholding project is re-using technology that already exists to make a shiny mechanic dildo and go home.
The difference is we are responsible adults. The professors can look at us in the eyes, see intelligent men, and tell us that this year we have to turn in a project and that it is completely individual.
On the other hand, your professor looks at you in the eyes, sees a hairy over grown baby with the work ethic of retarded 5 year old and says >Just... do it in groups. I don't fucking care. Just turn something in so that we can give you your degree and never have to see you retards again.
You are content with that? Fine, really. Your mediocre degree taught you to be like that anyways.
>>7818197 Ask /diy/. Plus a bit of this >>7818284 I'm engineering and we rarely have group work and we can't do shit until we come up with a project though. Don't you have a list of project works proposed by your professors if you can't come up with shit? Anyway what's your area of specialization if you have any? Build a Wind turbine if you don't have any idea or try to improve something existing. Make a proper comparison on combpetiting design solutions. Better yet which actually requires a bit of work is to try to implement an experimental proposal of doing something even if it's an "upgrade" to existing stuff and detail the problems arising and suggest ways to improve it.
We made injection molded matchbox sized cars then raced them. Had to design the cars, cut the molds, figure out the material & processing analytically, then demo them. Just like the real world. Was pretty f*ckin cool.
>>7818284 I think at most schools (mind at least does this), you are free to do your sophomore/junior/senior project either alone or in a group, but they expect that the level of complexity will increase with each additional person.
>>7818513 >Thinks he is going to work on jets >Not even his school is confident enough in his skill to assign him a solo project >Literally allowing the 1 guy in the class who knows his shit to carry your dead weight
Yeah, keep dreaming.
>>7818532 The same argument I see. Well, I did not expect diversity.
>>7818554 Fair enough. If your school allows you to choose then it is, in my opinion, not about your professors thinking you are retarded. Just about letting you explore.
But if your final project has to be in groups then it is confirmed that your professor thinks you are a braindead moron.
>>7818593 You're such a fucking autist it's unbelievable. Mech eng isn't about creating some lone master of machines it's about getting projects done and it so happens that this is easier in a group. Nobody in engineering does something just because it's harder that is wasteful of money and time and downright dangerous (who wants to fly in a plane built by one guy and checked by no-one else?) I get that maths is a lone autist thing but engineering is completely fucking different. We do whatever is easiest, if this hurts your pride then stay in maths solving needlessly complicated and pointless puzzles just to boost your ego.
>>7818593 >Not even his school is confident enough in his skill to assign him a solo project
engineering isn't playing around in imagination land, you actually have to do physical work. if you are building something that requires a shitload of custom fabrication, it is physically impossible for anyone to finish a project of sufficient complexity by themselves.
unlike math, its not just scribble some shit on a paper. you are expected to deliver industry standard prototypes.
>>7818593 My school offers either an undergrad thesis or a group capstone project The idea is simple: if you do the thesis, its not expected to be as grand in scope as the capstone project. The thesis is supposed to be an introduction into graduate level schooling, whereas the capstone project is an introduction into industry standard engineering.
I don't think its fair to say that group projects are babying the students. It's pretty obvious that the expectations for group and individual projects would be different. Moreover, its much harder to work in a group than individually.
Also, yes i realize this is bait >6/10 got me to reply with a genuine response
Oh I have seen that shitty argument a lot of times. Just stick to higher pay arguments because at least there is some significance. I don't give two fucks about your legally defined profession sperg.
Also >bunch of nepotistic...
I'm not even going to bother posting the table with all the higher earning professions for math bachelors. And no, I'm not even going to post that all of the 2015's highest rated jobs were all math jobs (as in jobs you can get as a math major).
I never said it was. This is school. Your school isn't grading you on your skill, but on how much you can get carried by that one asian guy in your team.
>this is easier in a group I never denied this. BUT THIS IS SCHOOL.
Why don't we take tests in groups? Wouldn't that be so much easier? You fucking moron.
> maths is a lone autists A lot of papers are made by a group of people and the mathematical community its pretty big. It is not a bunch of lonely men like you picture it is. They talk, they interact, they learn. The best ones make talks so that the little ones can learn and build upon what there is. etc. You are making up a straw man of academia.
The rest you said is the same. YOU ARE IN SCHOOL. They should test you on YOUR skill. But I know you have none, which is why you defend this.
But now to bring up another argument. There is a layer of sadness underlying this entire conversation.
Do you not want to see what it feels to be the only guy calling the shots? When you enter industry, all the projects you will be working on will be managed by senior members. You will be but a cog in a machine.
Why wouldn't you want to call the shots in your one big project in school and experience all the ups and downs on your own?
>inb4 in our group everyone calls the shots
No they don't. If you did then your group would be clusterfuck of ideas that would never get done.
>>7818625 >THIS IS SCHOOL. Engineering is a vocational subject you dickhead meaning that the school version must mimic the career version. If you didn't do group work your degree is trash. > They should test you on YOUR skill Yes they do hence the lone exams but as I am trying to get through to your thick fucking skull as it's a vocational degree they must also test the ability to work in a group because that is what you do in an actual engineering job. >Do you not want to see what it feels to be the only guy calling the shots? When you enter industry, all the projects you will be working on will be managed by senior members. You will be but a cog in a machine. >I want to be numbah 1 speshul snowflake :-) Grow the fuck up.
>>7818625 >math autist talks about making strawmen >makes a bunch of fallacious statements and ad hominems
lol okay. i'm sure you are an expert engineer with decades in the field so you totally have valid opinions. get the fuck out retard, you are talking out of your ass about shit you know absolutely nothing about.
>You will be but a cog in a machine. and this is a great example of your stupidity. out of all the STEM professions, engineering is second only to medicine in terms of incidence of self employment.
you, my friend, will be the cog in the machine.
>YOU ARE IN SCHOOL. They should test you on YOUR skill.
and working with other human beings is a skill, but i wouldn't expect a math autist to realize this. most of engineering is actually just dealing with people.
>>7818639 Okay, fair enough. Get your autistic social interaction classes. Man, I thought we developed this shit in high school but go figure.
>>7818641 >if you didn't do group work If I didn't do group work then I proved I could do my job on my own. Now, if I ever have to work on a team, then good thing I have natural social skills and don't need autistic training.
>Grow the fuck up.
No, for real. Have you ever worked on something 'big' alone? It is fun and it is engaging, a completely different experience. It is exactly the kind of experience that university should give you because the sad truth you don't want to swallow is that for the first half decade of your career you will be but a cog in a machine, doing nothing note worthy and specially, never getting to make a single decision.
>>7818651 >If I didn't do group work then I proved I could do my job on my own.
lol, come back to me when you've bid out a job for over a million dollars and tell me you can do it yourself within the time frame the customer needs it. just because you've had babby projects doesn't mean you have any skill m8.
>>7818654 I have answered to all of your points above.
>>7818658 But this is not what I am saying. I am saying that after you learn how to do shit on your own, it is trivial to get involved in team work. This is not something your university should waste time on.
>>7818651 If you are working on something alone it is going to be /diy/ tier. The point that you are failing to get is that you simply can't work alone in engineering. And your statement that this makes it unsatisfying is as dumb as saying that winning the World Cup won't feel good because you needed to work with your 11 man squad to get there. If you can't get joy from a team effort then you need Jesus, Allah, Buddha I don't know you need some sort of professional help because you are way autistic even for 4chan.
>>7818664 >I am saying that after you learn how to do shit on your own, it is trivial to get involved in team work.
and what part of "most engineering jobs physically cannot be accomplished alone" do you not comprehend? i know you are delusional and believe you can split yourself in two like some anime, but thats now how the real world works.
>>7818667 I already answered to all of your points, a million times above. Just scroll up and let reality sink in.
>>7818669 >Words from someone never involved in a project of any scale with any degree of accountability.
Well, I am part of a small team of software dev where I am internship. We are just 3 guys but I think that I know what I'm talking about when I say that it was pretty trivial for me to adjust working in a team.
It is almost the same.
>Do what I'm supposed to you >Consult group about what's next and what they did >Do more stuff >Consult higher up on what are the next tasks >Keep doing stuff
>>7818682 Fair enough, pretty dumb of me. I pictured that rich asian guy who made his fortune alone.
>>7818685 >Your level of autism all makes sense now.
Well, that is not my title. That is what I am currently doing, nothing more. But more than that, what is wrong with it?
You are probably butthurt about the fact that software devs have higher salaries than you. It is fine, let it sink in, sperg.
>>7818690 Well, I'm sure if I majorly fuck up then I can say goodbye to the position, which means money and afterwards a recommendation letter that will make my resume shine 10 times brighter than yours.
>>7818691 I admit that sentence was shit. I don't even know what I was thinking at that moment.
Anyways, what real world? Do you mean the one I'm in? I am making money for this company, which then pays me money for doing so. THAT is the real world. That is how a job works. Maybe I have a 'small' position and it is not quite like a full time job but it is still a real job when you talk with real people about real situations that make real money.
I'd say that's 10 times as valuable as your pitifyl autism training group projects.
>>7818693 Jealous that I will have a full resume by the time I graduate and you won't?
Anyone has that picture of a dinosaur throwing truth bombs and one said that the destiny was more important than the road or something along those lines?
The point is, heavy correlation with getting hired and doing paid internships. Also heavy correlation with getting paid more after graduation and doing paid internships.
>>7818725 >Let's ignore the fact that he's switched from 'how employability doesn't matter' to ... this current shit flinging Lol this. This guy's faggotry could power a Saturn V all the way to Planet Nine.
Let me tell you something, there are CS majors everywhere. My employer was impressed to the point that he said to me that it was interesting that I was studying mathematics, with no kind of CS component or whatever, and I knew all these programming languages, database engines and operating systems.
Not being CS puts me on top, my friend. Definitely having a good time here.
>>7818731 I am studying math but my job is software. Those things are completely separated.
>>7818713 you make a bunch of incorrect assumptions about group work in upper level engineering courses.
>muh one guy carrying the team this rarely happens, and if it happened to you its because you are a beta cuck who can't assert himself. our projects have a peer grade component thats worth more than a letter grade.
if you have someone not pulling their weight you are supposed to document it, and report them to your professor. i've done it twice now, and one dropped the class, and the other just took the C grade by acing the exam.
>muh group projects are ez they are more difficult than solo projects for a couple of reasons.
for one, your documentation has to be much more rigorous because any work you do has to be able to be picked up and continued by any member of your group at any time.
second, in engineering you are building a physical product, and because of the complexity the work load is distributed into subsystems that each person takes on. these subsystems then have to interface with each other to make a functional final product. so you as an individual have an increased challenge because you have to make sure whatever you design works with others. that compilation of subsystems is much more difficult when you aren't designing each of them yourself. if you've ever had to work with other peoples code, you'd understand this.
>>7818739 But your original argument was based on how pure and perfect maths was compared to "greasemonkey" engineering yet now you have outed yourself as a cheeto-eating codemonkey who is utterly delusional about his skill level, worth to society and salary.
>>7818748 I am 100% sure that my real job that I am getting paid for has more weight than your pityful school project.
>>7818750 I know of the various plots to make programming accesible to the retards but that doesn't matter. Most people simply cannot handle the real workload there is in industry.
Also, it is pretty weak for you to just say that I can't fling shit at you now, but will be able to later. The way I see it, I'm already in this ride. I will earn more than you, have a better job than you and be able to fuck with you on 4chan all day long if I want because I have cold hard facts to back me up.
I have stopped eating junk food, almost completely. Not because I was fat because i just matured.
Also, I never invoked purity as an argument. I said that in university, I was better off because my final projects were individual. I had to do my research on my own, do it on my own and then present it on my own. That is how you build a professional.
Also, the link is right there. There is a 20k difference between salaries.
You know that car that you will really, really want but you can't because it is just too expensive for you? Well, that is the car I will be riding and everyday you can think about me, getting all the expensive things you can't get.
>>7818769 Because you said cheetoeating. Just saying, whatever stereotype you are maliciously constructing inside of your head to help you cope with the reality that my life will be better than yours, it is not real.
>>7818771 Fair enough, it is. But then you are not a school group baby. You've done actual work and know what you are saying.
>>7818777 That 100k paying cubicle job sounds really good m8.
>>7818786 >You've done actual work and know what you are saying. yeah, i do, and i'm saying those group projects are fundamental to engineering. you don't design in a vacuum and everyone has a different design process.
if you work in software, can you honestly say that any two people will write code in the exact same way? will they even comment that code in the same way?
its not about interacting socially, its about interacting professionally and being able to interface design styles into a working end product.
i guarantee if some shit gets fucked up where you work, its going to come down on the whole group, and not just one person. you aren't graded individually in industry as much as you think m8.
>>7818811 >should be trivial to adjust to a team it is. working with others isn't inherently difficult, its working with their products that is challenging. imagine these people as mystery boxes.
you put in a request for XYZ subassembly, and you get this end product that you had no hand in creating outside a few agreed upon parameters.
so out comes this part, and you try to hook it up to your part, but wouldn't it be great if his part could be YZX instead of XYZ? so you give him a few more parameters and he goes and reiterates his design, but tells you he needs your part to be YXZ so you have to reiterate too.
rinse repeat till you get a final product.
when you work alone, you don't have those challenges, and that iterative method is how engineering works in the real world. its something that really does need to be taught in university if your school wants to produce non-shitty engineers.
OK. An anti-submarine-drone device/drone. Currently millions being spent on 'automated' swarm drones to kill submarines. Detection and the destruction of these anti-sub drones is a very high priority, needs 'swarm' programming, multi sensor detection and propulsion, do a good job and you get free passes into DoD.
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