I truly never understood why depression is real and how we can find out if someone has depression and is not instead a chicken who can't face life’s difficulties and takes the easy route.
>inb4 killing yourself is the hard route
How do you differentiate between someone having it and someone not wanting to face difficulties? I'am open to both sides. More leaning on the side that depression is real but just have a hard time knowing why or how we can know for sure. I've never had depression so it's had for me to relate.
To give you perspective on how shitty depression diagnoses are. I was a whiny bitch on high and cut myself because my gf broke up with me. I went to therapist. Here is the extent of how she made my diagnosis. She pulled up a list of depession symptoms and made me check off the things I was experiencing. I checked like more than 5 or something and she told me to go to a prescription for some medicine. I was fucking diagnosed by what was basically a buzzfeed quiz. I feel like most people diagnosed don't even have depression based on my experience.
There are diagnostic criteria to meet to be diagnosed with depression. Look them up.
I was diagnosed with depression. I had total apathy and suicidal thoughts for many years. That's not normal. Sertraline really helped me.
That's the thing. I'am sure a bunch of people who say they have depression or have been diagnosed as having depression don't. I guess they just want a justification as to why their life sucks so bad. This also doesn't mean depression isn't real.
As someone with Bipolar I can tell you the depression is real. One day ontop of the world getting shit done, next day literally can't get out of bed and contemplating suicide. For years I tried to rationalize why I might be so sad till it occurred to me there literally is no rational reason, it's just biochemical.
I think depression can best be described as a state of mind that is analogous to low power mode on your laptop. You can enter this low power mode when you don't have enough neurotransmitters. Or when your brain is having trouble dealing with real life shit so it just enters low power setting so you don't burn yourself out thinking about stuff you can't deal with. The later is more mind/body shit where talk therapy or even placebos can help more than expensive pharmacology.
Depression is very real, there is a day and night difference between the now non-depressed me who is performing brilliantly at college and the old version of me who was trundling along at a snails pace and unaware of anything in class.
Unfortunately, the old version of me is a permanent scar that I cannot shake off, because I have lived for such a short amount of time as what I consider to be my true self, it still feels fake at times. The only saving grace is that once you are free of a depressive state, you realise just how bad you were suffering.
As someone who has suffered depression, let me explain it best I can. It's like being full instead of being hungry. Let's say that you and your friends are sitting at a Chinese buffet, and your friends are getting these massive plates of food, but you just had a Thanksgiving feast less than 15 minutes ago and are almost in physical pain from how much you ate. Your friends keep telling you that you'll love the food here, you just have to try it, and that there's no reason that you shouldn't eat. You keep telling them that you're full, but they just assume that you're lying so they disregard you and try to get you some food. You try it, but since you're so full you start gagging up even the foods that you love to eat, no matter how much you love them. You just want to leave and go take a nap at home, but everyone just shoves more food at you and tells you to stop thinking about going home.
That's what depression is. The chemicals in your body are giving you these signals, and it's not like you can just WILL yourself to be hungry again. You just kind of sit there wanting it to stop, but nobody understands and some people actively pursue the idea that you just need to man up and eat. You can say "Wow that sure looks appetizing" all you want, it won't make you hungry again.
All of this
Though I've only really just started recovering. And ya, this new you just doesn't feel right. Like you're faking it and it's not really you. When depression affects you during your formative years and stays there for so many years, you lose who you really are. You start to question if there is a true you. It's this odd disconnect. It bothers me, but it's a feeling that's a hell of a lot better than depression.
I moved to another country and started to do a bunch of things that scared the fuck out of me, its taking time, and every single new thing I am doing makes me realise how many layers i have to go through.
You have to change things to see a change in yourself.
Yeah I was just curios mainly about whether you received medication or not, because I think I'm depressed, but I don't want to see a professional, because then I would have to answer a bunch of shit and visit them periodically, which would make me feel uncomfortable. Seems like you didn't, so I guess there is hope then.
>not the guy you replied to
Moved to Japan? That's what I really want to do also. Just move to another country and do stuff that I've never done before or was scared/anxious of doing before. Just throw myself out there and try get out of my comfort zone. I find it hard doing that where I'am at now. I feel like everyone already knows me and I would look phony.
I took SSRI medication for about two months several years ago, It didn't help and I am very much against using medication or anything that alters your brain chemistry to force you to be happy.
I don't know japanese so I would never move to japan, I moved from one english speakiing country to another so it should be obvious which ones. I'm also going to school here so I had a plan to make this work out inevitably, you need goals to truly be successful in life, a real obtainable goal is what keeps you on track and stops you falling back into bad habits
I took pain medication for about two months several years ago, It didn't help and I am very much against using medication or anything that alters your brain chemistry to force you to be pain free.
Depression is being plugged out of the biological matrix
Seeing life as it is
>Depression coincides with self mutilation
>Pain and self mutilation is used as a coping mechanism to detract from depressive thoughts via endorphin release
Also, pain medication has a real documented effect on alleviating pain, antidepressants come with black box warnings about increased chance of suicide, don't be a fucking idiot and ruin your brain chemistry because you are reluctant to fix your problems.
A lot of the problem with depression is that it's not that you are literally sad all the time, but it's long stretches of empty apathy and then a few weeks to a couple of months worth of actual depression. It's like you literally can't be happy. Even when recieving gifts or affection it's like you can't feel anything at all or you feel guilty and depressed from not feeling anything at all. It's laying in bed all day, not because you're too sad to get up, but literally all of your physical energy is drained from your body but you can't close your eyes and fall asleep.
Also there's no fucking help out there, i've talk to therapists who just tell you what you want to hear. You can't get anything done in a meaningful amount of time because I had a set amount of sessions which were supposed to be 90 mins each, but the woman cut each session to 60 mins. I went to the mental hospital once and they basicly talk to you like an idiot and treat you like a prisoner more than a human being. I remember when I was there they had me on a bed next to the main work-desk and I couldn't sleep because all the stupid nurses were talking about their vacations n shit, so i told them to shut the fuck up because they were already so rude to me, and so they asked me if i wanted something to help me sleep and I said yes. 2 hours later some fat sheeboon bitch comes and hands me a pill, I ask her what it is i'm supposed to take and she smacked her lips at me and said "YOU WANTED TO GO TO SLEEP DINYA??". The mental health care system in Canada is a joke. That or my doctor is, because anytime I go to him with a question regarding mental health, he googles it right infront of me.
Where do existential crises fit in on the depression scale? I love life and would never kill myself but damn sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and the vastness of the universe and my small place in it and my mortality hit me like an anvil. I never considered it depression but it must be something; not everyone feels this way.
you can be depressed when your life doesn't suck.
Imagine that you see no point in living. What's the point of working? Get money? Get pussy? Get food? For what? More working? Who are you working to satisfy? Yourself? Your parents?
It's not lazyness as in "let me sleep a bit more".
It's more of not seeing the point anymore as in "I have to eat 3 times today again, and shit at least once or twice before coming back here".
>I wake up in the middle of the night and the vastness of the universe and my small place in it and my mortality hit me like an anvil.
Anxiety can have some similar symptoms, but its different.
I have very severe social anxiety and have had bouts of depression. I've found that when I'm depressed it almost neutralises the anxiety as I dont care about anything anymore.
>I've never had depression so it's had for me to relate.
Go through heavy amphetamine withdrawals and you won't have trouble relating anymore.
This bullshit really pisses me off. I'm tired of seeing people pay some quack with no qualifications to give them a bullshit diagnosis based on self reported feelings and the equivalent of a bubble in magazine personality test. The truth is life is shitty, people get sad, they get disillusioned, but these days it seems everyone and their mother thinks that not being in a state of elation all the time is being "depressed".
Reminds me of an article that came out recently, stating that attempts at finding a genetic cause for depression had been slow moving, until they chose a smaller same sexed group from china where getting diagnosed is much harder. Lo and behold they found some common genetic ground between that group and the control. Makes one wonder.
I was diagnosed with Depression when I was 18, and having been on both sides of the fence here's what I've noticed:
1. Depression is real and it sucks cause you have no energy to do anything and you do want to.
2. People who are depressed stubbornly refuse help and let themselves fall deeper into depression.
3. Medication is relied upon too heavily by doctors and patients, that shit messes up your brain badly. You may stop feeling sad, but you stop feeling happy or angry or content. You feel nothing.
The sad part is people don't go to the doctor cause they just write you a prescription and shuffle you out the door, reinforcing the idea that no one really cares. All depressed people need is a patient and good friend who doesn't let them dwell on their problems.
>Loss of ego and petty materialistic and social concerns that work as illusions against you
>time slows down to the point you dub yourself time lord and are able to complete tasks quickly and efficiently once blocked by psychological barriers
>positive affirmation and gratitude at max power
>realizations/epiphanies that get you back on your feet with confidence
>repulsion toward current addictions
Aside from an uneasy come up with mushrooms and hypersensitivity and overreaction to everything on a bad Trip, just don't off yourself if you think you're stuck in a bad place forever.
What's the point of understanding though? I mean, do you want to mentally assess if people's reasons to be depressed are warranted or not. Unless, they committed a public suicide, or are related to you then I don't see why you should speculate or dissect someone's 'extent' of depression.
Also, what kind of doctors are you guys consulting?????
Sounds bipolar-ish. See a psychiatrist, preferably one who has been practicing for a couples of decades. Don't trust a GP. Don't trust the morons posting in this thread. Except for me that is...
A couple of occurrences is enough for a diagnosis. It doesn't matter how often it has happened. What matters is whether or not it is going to happen again and how big a problem it is when it happens.
Reasonably intelligent, rational human being with severe depression here.
I had a very good, stable childhood with a strong extended family. I am in my 30s, I make way more money than I need and have family that would, in fact, support me if I wanted to live the NEET life.
In short, I have no "real" difficulties to deal with or chicken out about
Depression don't give a shit.
Mine is clearly genetic. Lots of family on various meds at various times, a few suicide attempts. Again, we're all very loving and supportive people or I'm sure there'd be plenty of successful suicides.
I have never been medicated. I saw a therapist a bit in my teen years, but I'm objective enough about my own mind that I can recognize the negative cycles starting and find ways to deal with it.
That doesn't mean I can just choose to be a fully functional human being though. I have a job that lets me just lay in bed for three days if that's what I need.
I can tell you it's a bizarre experience to think back with a clear head over the way you were thinking and feeling in a deep episode.
Certainly is. Makes you see how chemically deterministic our destinies are. Nothing is truly impossible. Everything is effortless. The brain just requires rewiring. Though this ain't in the same dimension as weed or even mdma.
It's a good idea to do some batman style prep work beforehand. Dive in like a white girl looking to party and you're in for a cosmic ass kicking, but even then you'll walk away enlightened and floating on a cloud.
Psychedelics show promise in treating PTSD and addiction, which is why research has become resurgent by the likes of John Hopkins.
>it seems everyone and their mother thinks that not being in a state of elation all the time is being "depressed"
Exactly. I believe true depression that needs medication is a very very rare thing. feeling down is normal, specially if a person is stagnating in their professional or personal life. Each time I start feeling like shit, I either remind myself of my short and long term goals and the steps I'm taking to achieve them, or entirely change these goals for something more realistic. Took me a while to realize this, years of depressive and suicidal thoughts. Turns out I wasn't chemically depressed, I just literally had no true objective in life.
Take charge and find something to work towards, your brain is going to want to kill itself if it has nothing to live for.
If you're not depressed, you're most likely a brainlet.
What if depression is just a nutritional disease because you're not eating enough precursors to neurotransmitters. Depressed smart people don't get enough because they use more than average. And those "smart but lazy" anons are just smart enough to know that over taxing their brain will spend their limited neurotransmitters sending them into depression/anxiety.
Of course it's real. Psychotic people are angry without having a reason to be angry, manic people get uncontrollably happy, some people even hallucinate bugs crawling all over their skin. Why would sadness be the one emotion you expect to be magically under concious control?
Because I do not see truth in certain assertions made, for instance that all sadness is a form of depression, Also some data he offers has since been cast into doubt (the depression gene he mentioned was contested as causative the same year this video was posted).
Finally you posted the video and claimed it was a good response to the posts here >>7805880, yet I do not think it is a good response to some of the complaints. Specifically my own about the overuse of the idea of depression in society.
I wasn't the anon who posted the video. I don't think he saysthat all sadness is a kind of depression. He just mentioned three different experiences that justifiably or not are called "depression" but he's focusing on the last one (the people who go on a downward spiral and don't seem to be able to recover without some sort of external help).
He mentioned 3 "types" of depression, the first which he called reactionary he talked about meaning very minor stuff. It seemed to me he was saying that major depression was an elongated and overwhelming form of this, but it was still the same in nature, or on the same spectrum. Later on he also mentioned that the sadness of thinking of the death of a loved one or african children or something, was the same sort of debilitating draining emotion, but only a short taste of it.
Perhaps my interpretation is wrong, but that is how it seemed to me.
Well I don't really have a novel view of the subject so I'm afraid this will not be interesting.
Firstly I think that sadness and all that is distinctly different from actual depression. Genuine depression is a mental disease. I can't speak to it's permanency but I believe it is more of a treatable disease than a curable one. Major depression, the hospitalization type talked about in the film is the sort of thing I'm talking about. There are certain clear symptoms that are hard to miss, and I personally believe are necessary for a diagnosis.
It is also my belief that because of less than stringent controls, many people who are not genuinely afflicted by this disease believe themselves to be. Using myself as an anecdotal example I can find that I satisfy many "depression symptoms checklists" but I do not actually fulfill the most essential criterion such as ahedonia, fatigue and the same sort of sleep perturbations described in clinical cases. Yet many people, even "highly trained" mental health professionals would likely classify me as depressed, if not with major depression, than with something with less stringent restrictions such as asymmetric depression. I believe this classification is due to erroneous beliefs in the mental stability and happiness of people in general. It seems to me that humans being machines that can only be happy when entropy is defied expect far too much happiness from life these days. (Though that may be me speaking as a pessimist). There may be genuine subtypes and sibling disorders to depression, but if they do exist many cases are getting classified as such undeserving.
This I chalk up to western society's tenancy to view psychiatry and psychology as a panacea for even normal emotional troubles, and it's subsequent proliferation as a service by mostly snake oil salesmen.
That is what I believe more or less expressed in a rambling and poorly written diatribe.
>Yet many people, even "highly trained" mental health professionals would likely classify me as depressed, if not with major depression, than with something with less stringent restrictions such as asymmetric depression
It's probably as "better safe than sorry" approach. Depression worsens over time if you don't do anything about it (I'm not saying necessarily treat with medication), and many people with depression don't seek help because they don't realise there's a problem. Personally, I was in the same boat as some of the people on this thread, and didn't actually seek help until I was barely able to get out of bed, and was having violent or suicidal thoughts almost constantly.
I believe he's using frequency in the short term, and recurring in the long term. As in I have frequent thoughts about something during the day, and they are recurring as I have them every other day.
Brain scans can show specific neurological patterns that correlate to a state of mind.
The easiest scans are ones that incorporate thermal energy in the brain produced by electrical impulses. In these, sadness and depression usually show up as darker shades of blue.
>I'm a brainlet who's only smart enough to know it.
i knew a guy in university who said something similar once. he had a scholarship and very rarely got below 90% in exams. i had the feeling this guy could apply every mathematical/physical principle by just reading the definition. he was kind of a weirdo and insanely nerdy but an exceptional talent. he killed himself after graduating because there was a minor setback regarding his job that he couldn't deal with. don't be that guy. sometimes you have to look at your life from a distance and realize that you have achieved/learned plenty already. when i started uni and didn't pass a single exam during first year i felt too dumb for everything and thought of myself as the biggest idiot in the room. "how am i ever gonna understand x", "i wish i was as smart as the others". i automatically assumed i wasn't intelligent enough when really i just never had put any real effort into studying before.
>I truly never understood why depression is real and how we can find out if someone has depression and is not instead a chicken who can't face life’s difficulties and takes the easy route.
This is why the Socratic method is equivalent to death as you understand the two notions: If you dismiss one thing as another, you'll fail to understand one-another.
Lol, your doctors must have gone easy on you.
I did two of those tests, and had 4 appointments until a diagnose was made for me. They also had a scale from 1-5, but the answers were factored into T-scores and Q-scores or things like that. Before he made the diagnosis, he also told me about what those scores mean (I forgot). Was diagnosed with something (not depression but with depressive tendencies, no idea about the name).
2 years later, after 15-30 regular sessions, followed by irregular visits, he asked me to consider that maybe medicine could be helpful with or without further therapy sessions.
Thing is, I never asked for medicine, mostly I just wanted to figure out what could be wrong with me.
I'am sure you are right but it's just that how can you prove depression?
I'am not stupid enough to try it.
>What's the point of understanding though?
General knowledge? And I want to know the truth. A lot of people quickly shun people who say they are diagnosed with depression. I want know if what they are saying is bullshit or true.
Depression is a real thing, it has empirical neurological evidence to back it up. However those chemical imbalances are a symptom rather than a cause.
People disagree about what those symptoms are as well as how to identify and treat them.
As for identifying symptoms, modern medicine is total shit at it. It's the reason diseases like HIV totally kick our asses. Symptom-based diagnosis is inaccurate and archaic, and is obsolete.
Typically you get antidepressants to stabilize your mood, and see a therapist to make lifestyle changes in order to live a healthier life.
Though I doubt anyone on 4chan has successfully recovered from shit.
I didn't even notice my quads.
I cope. I mean, whatever my issues are, I feel I could have had it worse. Still seeing my therapist when I feel like I need. It's better these days so I didn't consult another one yet (I moved ~2 hours away so I probably should).
Don't know how it started but sometime in my youth I started to feel extremely sorry about being alive. I got into some period where my mood swinged from madly happy, feeling like something out-of-this world was happening to me, to end feeling done with existing, always following that sequence.
I had phases where I started to cry during lectures until Christmas and not having any idea how to put into words how it felt. Actually thought it's a good thing because I cannot imagine mustering the strength and doing something to me.
Sometime in last November I started to get those pins and needles sensations in my chest as if it would fall asleep (you know the way your foot does when you sit on your leg). Scared the fuck out of me and I planned to ask about meds soon so I can get the edge off of things. Inbetween it is decent enough for me to think that this will stop eventually or that I can grit through it. Apart from that, there have been / still are days where I just wish for someone allowing me to end this, without any concrete reason to feel bad. Tried to see past it, knowing someone who really felt shit and had issues in school.
I never wanted therapy and if it weren't for being scared of how my body started to react to it, I would not consider drugs either. Might be because I didn't talk to many people but I always thought everyone must go through this. I cannot fully imagine people who don't feel this remorseful about living at least during in their youth at some point. I still ponder if I am not just being an edgy teen at time.
Still, now I feel that life got better in some way because I know it's something I can work on / with. Nowadays, at least, it feels real and I can put it into terms.
Samefag. Just to be clear on this, I am not saying my brain chemistry is messed up or that I have (had) major depression. I actually have no idea and am mostly in this thread because I have some interest to figure out how this is different from me, and how the "normal state" is different from me, if at all.
Mine started from first having OCD for year, then social anxiety, then Bigorexia, then Anorexia, (i gained 44 pounds and then lost them). All that time i had like a huge brainfog and wasn`t even realising what i was doing. Then it sort of cleared up and i realized how i`ve been all this time. Now i`m in a normal physical shape, but i`m just really disgusted with myself. Like i was totally another person(really shitty one) for 3 years. Before this whole thing started i was really social, had tons of friends, gfs, etc. After all this stuff happened i`m pretty much alone. Also from all this losing/gaining weight shit i kinda ruined my health and have to deal with a shitty skin now, which makes it worse like x100.
Been really close to suiciding a lot of times this year. Probably gona start doing drugs soon.
Also, stuff like Death Grips helps me a lot right now, i can really relate to their lyrics.
What the fuck?
Mine started from first having OCD for year, then social anxiety, then Bigorexia, then Anorexia, (i gained 44 pounds and then lost them). All that time i had like a huge brainfog and wasn`t even realising how fucked up i`ve been all that time. Now im in a normal physical shape,but i`m just really disgusted with myself. Like i was totally another person(really shitty one) for 3 years. Before this whole thing started i was really social, had tons of friends, gfs, etc. After all this stuff happened i`m pretty much alone. Also from all this losing/gaining weight shit i kinda ruined my health and have to deal with a shitty skin now, which makes it worse like x100.
Been really close to suiciding a lot of times this year. Probably gona start doing drugs soon.
Also, stuff like Death Grips helps me a lot right now, i can really relate to their lyrics.