>>7786506 >all major advancements in physics are still made by westerners? Do you have some sort of evidence about this?
Sure, Europe and America dominated the research world in the 20th century, but for most of the 20th century (especially including the gigantic math/physics boom from 1900~1960) Japan and Korea were still trying to become first-world countries and China was a communist shithole trying to find things to eat other than tree bark.
Nowadays lots of research comes out of the far east.
>>7786506 >asians are smarter on average I guess your definition of "smarter" has to be called into question. Let me guess, you googled one IQ graph and it had asians at the top and blacks on the bottom? Don't be so gullible.
Honestly, they only seem smart because of how they're raised. They follow a standard set by their parents or some cultural shame shit happens. They're good at getting an problem and solving it, but they suck at innovating their own ideas. This is almost every smart asian I know.
>>7786506 (OP) A lot of the major western advancements come from Jews, who are smarter than Asians on average.
> Einstein > Max Born > Albert Michelson > Bohr > Oppenheimer > Feynman > Haber > Neumann > Gell-man > Freud > Rita Levi-Montalcini (her work on NGF was important) > Schwarzschild > Paul Ehrlich > Ehrenfest
I googled "list of jewish scientists" and selected the ones which I recognised, and who had made significant discoveries
Alright black anon here; coming to start my masters in pure maths soon.
This is what I've realized over the years... Smart White people are usually smarter than smart Asian people, but however Average Asian people are smarter than Average White people; which is why Asians tend to have a higher IQ on average.
Also the smart Jew's your talking about are the "Ashkenazis" whom are European by DNA. I don't like it >>7786654 interesting if someone does something good their considered a westerner :o? Nevertheless, he's a great mathematician. If he lived in Africa, I'd consider him to be a greaaaat African mathematician LOL! Make claims; make him one of your people; steal accomplishments!
>>7786533 There's 0 correlation between social awkwardness/confidence/cucking and STEM ability. In fact, the smarter you are, the less likely you have sex regularly. Isaac Newton was an anti social virgin for life, yet he is one of the greatest thinkers in all of the West.
>>7786704 That is a very general and unsubstantiated claim. In what way are smart whites smarter than smart Asians?
>>7786724 No source. In fact, Asians have a higher SD along with a higher IQ. Also, IQ does not stop having an effect on academic success at 125-130. If you read Anne Roe's study and Terman's study you'll see that there is a geometric increase in rates of academic achievement up to IQ 200, the limit of measurement.
CR M W (standard deviations) Whites: 103 104 104 Asians: 126 127 129
>>7786790 You may be a neuroscience major, but I still would like to see the source on the figures, since I also am a neuroscience major, and that source would be very interesting to me, if you'd be so kind as to oblige
>>7786711 Ohhh, I see. Well I don't know any smart asians then. Every lab, every research group I've been a apart of, there's a pretty intelligent asian kid but he never steps up to the plate and takes on a leadership role. Even given the chance all he wants to do is be given a task to solve. It's kinda sad really. is this why they are so depressed all the time?
Hmm. And I came into this thread thinking I would see people bashing on Asians due to negative experiences with their TAs or cheating students and copycats.
I hear opinions on (East) Asians ranging from copycat soulless robot clone plastic surgery commies to bro tier/anti degenerate hardworking low crime crusaders. Easily one of the most divisive topics in 4chan.
Because people are idiots, thus utilizing cognitive bias in assessing Asians.
They confuse high academic marks with high academic contributions. Thinking that if you are exceptional in school you will automatically contribute something significant to academia when in fact such a correlation is mildly weak.
Asians are certainly intelligent but their own history has shown this intelligence is in response to over a millennium of national testing that push for rigor and dedication. It wasn't developed or mandated by the culture to constantly build abstract ideas and/or axioms, although they did indulge themselves at times in novel pursuits.
Why do you think it is most of their contributions have been in fields such as civil engineering, philosophy and military? Because their society through political decisions deem it so, value was placed on the practical and spiritual. Some of china, south korea and japan's most famous engineering structures are based on the appeasement religious ideas that so happen to correspond to math concepts (i.e. magic square) and how it would serve man and society.
It wasn't until recently has wide spread emphasis been placed on non-practical concepts that delve into pure abstraction. And such modern developments have mostly come from japan who imported academic books from europe some centuries back.
>>7788436 look at the handling of fukushima a large radiation contamination zone was found, crew says we dont know what to do, not in manual. finds higher up, dont know what to do, continue up chain until top, doesnt know what to do, asks head waste disposal chief, buries it. they follow order and directives and procedure. when confronted with new challenges they are typically lost
Westerners and asians have different cultures but they're science oriented. I'm not talking about their government policies on how chinese people and americans hate their government but their take on progress for civility.
>>7788480 Reminder that Russians were at the pinnacle of white science in the 20th century.
Basically, whites invent the sundial, Asians create the Quartz watch.
>>7788482 Have you read the bell curve? Whites have minimal drive. Apparently, Asians that have an IQ 6 points higher than a white person perform at a level 21 IQ points higher due to conscientiousness and work ethic.
Whites don't have insight. If they did, your civilization wouldn't be stagnating, overrun by barbarians, and your scientific output declining.
>>7788487 >Have you read the bell curve? Whites have minimal drive.[etc] Language is limited and imprecise. "Drive" isn't quite the right word, but when it comes to describing a complex machine's behavior over a variety of contexts, and the general clustering of traits within a given population, it's good enough.
It's about the whole more than strictly delineating a series of parts. Europeans have created most of what you see around you. Anything "race" created we either destroyed, improved upon, or actually put to use. It's not because Europeans are more "driven", it's because of the presence of a certain set of mental tendencies about to what ends that drive is applied.
Seriously, take a good look at us. Look at broken and disjointed we all are. The east doesn't have nearly the battle between individual and collective, self and other, personal success and control, that Europeans do. The cultures we create make an environment wherein most people are legitimately incapable of basic comfort or self exploration. There is always the conflict. Even the religions generated in Europe didn't give half a fuck about balance, self understanding, or anything too internal. It was all about control.
Ultimately, everyone is broken garbage, no matter where you came from. There's no denying relative to scientific and political advancements, Europe has had a very novel history. Even though Asia was just one big series of bloodbaths itself.
>>7788531 No not really. At least half of what I see in my immediate surrounding was created by Asians. Also, when you use such a facile definition of "created," it's hard to differentiate what is Asian and what is White. A single invention will have multiple inventors.
You show a lack of insight. Do you really think Asia is homogenous with only a single type of personality? Do you think that discomfort is not THE human state (Buddha)?
You need to read a history book so that you can liberate yourself from such facile and sweeping generalizations.
>>7788539 Yeah, you're probably right. Ask me on 10 different days, and I'll give you ten drastically different answers. Such is the life with chronic pain, and the only solution is death.
The base human state is not discomfort and the avoidance thereof. It's a small clustering of feedback loops that can be pushed in various directions, and this is what generates higher level experiences.
The very use of the word "facile" indicates you're not really worth communicating with on any topic of this sort. Have fun with whatever you want out of this thread. No matter what I said you'd strip it down and cram it into a hyperpolarized east vs west dichotomy instead of having any insight of your own about human communication and what is likely going on in the mind of another person.. That's how your mind works. We're all projectors, but you're a projector that fails to truly understand and appreciate their own workings.
>>7788551 I don't think the usage of a single word automatically disqualifies me from anything. I used the word as I saw fit, and eloquently at that.
(especially of a theory or argument) appearing neat and comprehensive only by ignoring the true complexities of an issue; superficial.
If you look at the Jungian personality type distributions, the same trends hold for every country and there is a roughly even distribution of types. The culture is simple the layer that grows on top of those traits. There are no specific traits inherent to the people of a culture, only the culture itself.
>>7788560 >I don't think the usage of a single word automatically disqualifies me from anything. It doesn't really matter what you think. I've already taken that into account to the extent I'm able, and care to. Relative to my perspective, it was as I said it was, and it is as I said it is. Therefore, it is. Unless you can manage to sway me on the matter.
>I used the word as I saw fit Good.
>and eloquently at that. Yeah, you did that looping thing. While I disagree that there was any meaningful degree of eloquence to anything you stated, I can empathize with the feeling I imagine you have in mind, even if it stands on inadequate grounds.
>The culture is simple the layer that grows on top of those traits. Stop rehashing what I said as though you're the one telling me.
>There are no specific traits inherent to the people of a culture This is just delusional. If you put people in certain environments, regardless of any genetic clustering of traits, it will bring certain behaviors and patterns out of them and that gradient determines the course of history. You are your environment as much as you are yourself.
This ignores that you are likely to see genetic clustering per any given region. Culture is not magic. It comes from somewhere, and it goes somewhere, for many reasons. Many of which your facile and myopic framework of knowledge ignores or groundlessly rejects.
>>7786506 Your idea of who is smarter than who is based upon personal biases, statistical analyses of data with their own biases due to measurement processes and initial assumptions, influences from sources who convey these analyses to you who have biases, etc.
>>7786729 >the bulk of mathematical and scientific advancement before the 17th century came from China and India
they actually were extremely good at those things but the European scientific advancement did not "come" from there, since most of it was developed independently. Europeans knew shit about I Ching and stuff.
Culture also plays a massive part. In Asia the nail that sticks out gets hammered down.
I pondered this myself a few years ago when I was going to study in Korea. I asked everyone over there what they thought of science, my degree, whether there was pop science on TV etc.
They couldn't understand it. They seemed bemused that I chose such a "hard" degree (physics) for fun and actually enjoyed it. They have no concept of science documentaries that you watch for fun, or reading and learning about it for fun. In Korea you read physics textbooks because your teacher told you to. You regurgitate it in the exam so you can get into a good university. You get into a good university so you can get a good job at a big company and earn lot's of money. That's just how it works there.
Obviously there are Korean scientists in it for the love of science, but they are few and far between and their schooling system seems engineered to stamp it out of them as much as possible.
Koreans are at school from 7am to 10pm or later. Quite simply they don't have time.
>>7788487 >The reason that the US has twice all of Europe's scientific output despite having half the population is Asians.
Or maybe the fact the entire USA is a first-world country, whereas half of Europe is second-world ravaged by USSR and not enjoying the liberal western culture enjoyed by the US and Western Europe for all these decades.
>>7786506 Asian Americans are a bit above average. Average Asians, I don't believe so. That's excluding India.
In Asia, there's much a greater motivation towards manufacturing and shipping. Some innovation is required to keep costs down obviously, but we really don't know the trade secrets.
As for creating their own products, it's simply because no one really would wants purchase the items. We know there's thousands if not more of Chinese generics from electronics, textiles, plastics, chemicals, etc. Would anyone really want to purchase Chinese brands?
Maybe just in garments. There's tons of Asian fashion designers. Legit: Vera Wang, Alexander Wang, Jason Wu, Derek Lam, etc
Adam Smith wondered if the west had gone through the enlightenment because of the plague. Weeding out some genetic chaffe, raising wages because there was lots of free land and nobody to do work. All these things that Asia didn't seem to have at the time. West could have just gotten lucky
The UK were a bunch of backwards savages in huts until the Romans came knocking.
The reasons European civilisation is in its current state are numerous and complex.
Asia apparently didn't hit all the right triggers and stagnated with the old Chinese civilisation and just went with it cos it worked. But with the modern world certain Asian countries have the stability, work ethic, and intelligence to join us at the top.
They did, the west got really lucky, when it came to the arabs saving roman, greek, egyptian, indian and chinese text and not just destroying because it didn't fit with their faith.
And they got lucky that north america was populated with native americans who were still in their tribal/nomadic phase instead of mayans or aztecs expanding all the way up centuries before hand and preventing any western colonization.
>>7788802 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Destruction "If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them."
It's a meme. Asians aren't actually particularly intelligent. They are just very good at memorisarion and recognising and utilising patterns. Modern education unfortunately makes this a very valid method of learning thus Asians tend to do quite well.
As someone who goes to a Uni that is crammed with Asians, I am truly baffled by how rapidly this meme breaks down once they are presented with something unexpected or which requires deep understanding. This is why Asians are notorious for cheating.
Asians are the example for why IQ is a bit of a joke. I've actually heard an hypothesis about this too. Don't know if it's true. The reason Asians excel at rote-learning is because their written language requires it thus they are most comfortable with it. An interesting explanation.
>>7788748 >Are you talking about top tier Seoul education or is it just many exaggerations?
No it's for everyone. They specifically talk about how everyone does it, the real top tier education and rich kids have their own expensive hagwons or get private tutors, they aren't sticking around in the school with the other pleb kids.
You can google hagwons if you want to see the lengths Koreans go to get their children educated.
Western education is so laissez-faire that anyone interested or good at science had to seek it out on their own and choose to study things that interested them. In Korea they don't have time, any free time is spent sleeping and socialising (while eating or drinking), they associate learning with cramming rote learning facts into their head to regurgitate in an exam later. It's all they know.
They only recently became a developed nation. Every parent wants their kid to have a better life than them by getting educated. They do weird things because it's just the done thing, they don't think about why. Smart people play classical music, right? So every single college educated Korean you meet played piano and/or violin at some point as a kid. Even if it was just for a month it happened at some point. Every single girl I met did violin or piano, and did dancing of some sort. They usually kept only the dancing interest and went more contemporary with it but they all had it.
>>7789549 I'm the second person they quoted in that post, and the funny part is I'm actually not entirely European. More Eurasian with a lot of other stuff thrown in, like most people. Russian, very distant "Jewish", French, English, Native American (Cherokee). Some mediterranean something or other in there as well. I have an Irish last name. And that's just a small part of 2 of 4 branches.
It's easy to assume everyone will just claim whatever their ancestral sense of identity is, is superior in some way. (Un)Fortunately I'm not an idiot, so I want to how it all really functions, and this doesn't actually play in much if at all.
There's a diffrence between people who get good grades and genuinely smart people. Let's face it, if asians couldn't study all day like they all do. then they wouldn't be cramming all these universities since they would fail! meanwhile, I know alot of American and europian people who don't do homework, study etc.. and still do really good at school. Its really dumb when people say to other asians "you must be so smart since you Asian" no he just studies alot moron
>>7788802 >the west got really lucky >implying asia and africa and the ancient americas simply got unlucy >implying classical china's retreat from the world beyond its inferior immediate neighbors into its own hubris until a small island it barely registered much less saw as a worthy rival reduced it overnight to a crippled nation of opium junkies was mere bad luck The brits made a similar mistake though, they viewed china as a largely static entity and never anticipated actually having to give back hong kong when the lease expired. As did the americans when reagan's goons armed and trained the mujahideen.
as a westerner living in south korea, i can at least speak to the korean paradox.
korean companies are desperate for innovation, although their work culture is process oriented, not results oriented. This means that employees end up working 11 hours+ per day, maybe 5 days of vacation per year if they're lucky. people literally don't have enough time to reflect and be creative.
This is why companies like Samsung are quietly rotting from the inside. shortsighted strategy and abhorrent working conditions mean that nothing new, innovative will make it out of korea, unless by sheer luck or chance.
>>7786506 Being good at standardized testing and those olympiad circlejerks does not translate into being a good researcher at all.
That being said Asians are contributing shittons nowadays, even the Chinese are getting their shit together, they used to have an inferior culture that was too restricting preventing them from having their own early major contributors during the renaissance and enlightenment eras.
>>7790626 >Except s Korea is a world leader in IP applications and granted patents. >a world leader >a They lag massively behind their Western counterparts per capita. Being better than Africa and SEA is not an achievement.
>>7786704 >Also the smart Jew's your talking about are the "Ashkenazis" whom are European by DNA. I They're Khazar, sort of like the magyars (and Finns) so late European, but not exactly what I'd call traditionally European even though most steppe folk is considered such.
>f someone does something good their considered a westerner :o? Nevertheless, he's a great mathematician. He was trained in Western schools in a Western culture, that makes him a Westerner yes. I think the point of this thread is to discuss why Asian cultures are inferior despite having higher genetic IQs on average. Obviously something in their culture sucks that makes Westerners beat them.
Also like how the more Western Asian countries like Japan and SK outshine the rest (only the latter is still being boosted by the US really).
>>7786506 Western culture is the perfect blend of innovation and productivity, hence why everyone copied it in whole. East Asian culture is more driven on productivity and less on innovation. >>7788456 >got from Arabs Did you suddenly forget what the term renaissance means? Rebirth. Arabs preserved knowledge and ideas that the Greeks and Romans created (never mind the fact that much of it wasn't even lost), it had nothing to do with the far east.
>>7788487 >Reminder that Russians were at the pinnacle of white science in the 20th century. No they fucking weren't. Germany was in the first half and in the second half it was the US. There was only about a decade where the USSR was better at rocket science because they began developing intercontinental rockets earlier than the Americans. And that's literally it. Slavs are a peasent ethnicity.
Fucking muslim-cuck revisionists are the worst cancer on the planet. With extremely rare exceptions like phosperous Muslims contributed fuckall, even the so called """""golden""""" age of Islam was mostly cultural (oh look, we decided to stop killing infidels for once xD. Christfags still need to pay a blood tax though because fuck them), while technology was still progression faster in Europe especially in metallurgy and argriculture.
It was EUROPEAN scholars that used Islam recordings of Greco-Roman teachings to relearn old ideas. The renaissance happened in italy even as the Arab barbarians where still pillaging and raping its coastlines. What's more the European scholars had to shift through all the bullshit religious connotations that the Arabs added.
Eventually the pre-Arab sources were found anyway.
>>7790864 >yet the chart says black sexual parts are on average larger >although everyone knows that asian women rarely ever have wide hips >not just the brain, the skulls of blacks would also have to be noticeably smaller if the hip argument was true but they aren't Brain volume is far less important than brain density, by the way. Was this paper made before the second half of the 20th century? Because most actually educated people know this.
>>7790858 >that the genetical differences between different black population
This is do to genetic isolation (relative to other cultures) imo. Europeans traveled around a bit while Africans stayed put thus there was a genetic drift between Africans peoples while Europeans mixed a bit.
It's also how HIV, Ebola and other diseases would wipe out entire villages put never became a global endemic. Once Europeans introduced rail system/roads/centralism to to sub-Saharan Africa, HIV become a global problem.
>>7788487 >The reason that the US has twice all of Europe's scientific output despite having half the population is Asians. That's complete bullshit. The scientific output of the EU is greater than that of the US.
>>7791925 This is important. It's completely unreasonable to measure "scientific output" with total academic publications. It fails to distinguish cutting-edge papers on computationally-designed enzymes in organic catalysis from shit like Chinua Achebe's paper on why racism is the central literary theme of Heart of Darkness. Restricting ourselves to reputable scientific journals and measuring times cited or times cited per capita would be reasonable.
>>7790769 >One theory is that Asians are less open to new experiences and more conformist, so whites make more advancements in science.
No, that's bullshit. From time to time there come out news about how the chinese are making research in really politically incorrect shit. Like, research that in the US or any European country would get immediately banned but no in China. There the government fund these really weird research projects that all seem to look for ways to engineer the perfect human soldier, in my perspective.
Of course these are secret labs so the last thing they want is us inferior pieces of shit to know that they already have the fucking hulk and iron man there, getting ready to bomb the shit out of us and conquer the entire world. But fortunately from time to time some info does come out which makes me wonder why the fuck isn't the US doing the same kind of research. We are pretty much setting ourselves to lose in WW3 when we have to use pityful unmanned drones prone to errors and they use cyborgs with 3 brains and the body of a dinosaur covered in adamantium armor.
>>7793035 >wonder why the fuck isn't the US doing the same kind of research. Give me a break. You really think mkultra stopped and that you really grasp its scope? You don't think the US is capable of the engineering and manufacturing efficiency to blow most countries away, if we actually used it for anything other than pumping out shit vehicles designed to fall apart, or equipped that will never even be realistically necessary (military industrial complex)? The US has been doing ethically frowned upon stuff for decades now. Just look at operation paperclip to see how we've traditionally viewed intelligence and personnel.
I bet you think the cold war is over too. Russia and China getting together in any manner would be enough to wipe out the US and all foreign presence. The military is well aware of this, despite how broken and incompetent the majority of our country is. It's hard to speculate what either country is capable of.
> The analysis also suggested that today’s Europeans are descended primarily from migrants from the Middle East after the last ice age, about 20,000 years ago, not from the first humans to arrive to the continent about 40,000 years ago. The researchers are now looking into where the Middle Eastern and European Jews first met and who their closest descendants are today.
>>7793366 >When a significant proportion of Chinese are living in rural areas, obviously it will be lower per capita i dont think you understand what per capita means. it has nothing to do with land or population density.
>>7786704 >interesting if someone does something good their considered a westerner Really?You are going to start masters in pure math yet ask stupid question like this but i will answer anyway.Its because because western people have completely different values/way of thinking which makes HUGE difference and so if you're raised in western contry you have(more like had because everything is starting to get worse) way better education and freedom which does not happen in most eastern countries.
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