Hey faggots! You use to denigrate people who decide to graduate in CS instead of Math.
> "CS is a meme degree"
> "kek too easy"
But, you know what? The founder and CEO of Facebook, a billionaire company, is Mark Zuckerberg. Who was exactly studying Computer Science at Harvard.
He was studying computer science at Harvard AND THOUGHT IT WAS TOO EASY FOR HIM TO WASTE HIS TIME ON IT.
This is what we all say here. That CS is a mockery of a degree. Even if it is a 4 year program it should not give a bachelors degree because that insults people with actual bachelors degree like engineers and math majors.
This is different. He went to Harvard.
There is a big different between shitstain state university and ivy leagues when it comes to computer science. First, ivy leagues tend to actually teach theoretical mathematics that apply to CS, instead of just teaching them Calculus I and calling it a day.
Second, and this is the big one: Big companies like google and IBM mine students from ivy leagues. Quite literally, the top students at Ivy leagues already have a job position at IBM, google or nowadays even facebook before they even graduate. This is a huge boost as this could easily mean 100k starting. Compared to the median salary for computer programmers which is about 40k.
I'm not saying I'm personally insulted. I'm saying that a 4 year CS program shouldn't hand out a university diploma, it should give a technical certificate. Giving a bachelors degree to CS graduates is, in general, an insult to people who actually had to dedicate time and effort like engineers and mathematicians.
Will anyone, including myself, ever actually take offense? I doubt so because in the end it doesn't matter. Wages for software developers are decreasing steadily so soon CS fags will be left with nothing as everything gets outsourced to El Congo.
So even in Europe I'll be fucked with a CS degree? Getting a masters too if that matters at all.
Too bad it's the only thing I'm even remotely interested in. Guess I'll kill myself if I don't get a job once I'm done.
If my quick and dirty rounded phone calculator calculations are correct, in 4 years your average salary will be 53k.
That's fine really and in the graph you are definitely on top of other disciplines however notice that CS has the highest percentage of decreasing wages, second only to the humanities.
However, interpret this table however you want.
Considering a lot of people are in it just to get a cushy office job I imagine being actually interested in the area would help me stand out. Would the decrease actually be felt if you're good enough to not just be an average code monkey? Or maybe I should try to take some management and economy classes and make use of the fact that I know 6 languages somehow?
That's like saying since Amschel Moses Rothschild was a banker that banking is guaranteed to be the hardest and most profitable career path for everyone.
Also I didn't know the Rothschilds were so young as a clan; that family has been putting in work.
I agree with your CS saturation in job market claim but, disagree with your stance on course-load.
As a double major alumni in CS and EE, I'd like to point out a personal and overlooked observation that the difference in difficulty of the material was accounted for by a larger volume of information pushed on to CS students.
CS students are really good at digesting large volumes of qualitatively linked material and understanding these relationships at a level thats deeper than just "yeah, so how am I going to use this to program" . A CS student is more likely to be the guy developing frameworks and extensible code. The cs student looks past the superficial, "yeah so theres an OS kernel, and a linker, and Instruction set architecture" and sees how certain design patterns, algorithms, resource/process management policies, ripple and scale up in massive systems. You can't formalize this sort of intuition with 4 years of math education.
My one gripe about my CS program is the strong dichotomy struck between lazy VS leet CS students. I spent 5 and 1/2 years at a top 9 school and I think I encountered only two types of CS students.The 1's and the 0's.
The 1's where the people that gave shit. They were... "On" . They're the ones that formed coding posse's, traveling across the country to attend hackathons, up-till 2 am coding, getting internships at the big 4 or finding their way around bay area startups. They dabbled in hardware, software, crypto, low level ML, design, and business/private enterprise. You can't really socialize with a 1 if it wasn't about business or coding.
Conversely the 0's were there because they were supposed to be. They were... "Off". They stood slumped in their chairs making a minimal effort to "Digest" cs material instead of playing around with it. Privately they're very vocal critics of their degree. They complain about lack of progress and are very hands off when it comes to code.(Which doesn't make sense)
The 0's fancy themselves "idea people" and hold an internal belief that they'd be more suited to manage CS projects or handle CS related business. (My guess as an unrealized desire to distance themselves from the material).
The zeros complained incessantly about their professors, and, through their lack of interest in the material(and resulting bad grades) broke and reduced the standards of any faculty too inexperienced to deny them of their bullshit attitudes.
Zeros are friendly and kind, but altogether useless when it comes to team projects, talking code. Etc.
>A CS student is more likely to be the guy developing frameworks and extensible code
>sees how certain design patterns, algorithms, resource/process management policies, ripple and scale up in massive systems
>You can't formalize this sort of intuition with 4 years of math education.
A refrigerator technician is more likely to be the guy developing methods to fix your refrigerator and work on extendible ways to fix similar refrigerator problems.
The refrigator technician looks past the superficial. "Yeah so theres a fridge and theres cold" and sees how certain tools, techniques and parts ripple and scale up in massive systems.
You can't formalize this sort of intuition with 4 years of engineering education.
So, I am correct about how CS programs should be handing out technical certificates instead of diplomas? Good.
Nice. So Name a degree you can't extend that analogy to.
>A mathematician is more likely to be the guy work on extensible proofs and ways to articulate math problems.
>The mathematician looks past the superficial. "Yeah so theres math and proofs" and see's how certain mathematica structures, proofing methodologies, ripple and scale up to solve large problems.
>You can't realize this sort of intuition with 4 years of engineering intuition.
So, I am correct about how Math programs should be handing out technical certificates instead of diplomas? Good.
He's such an ugly looking human being.
Just superficially I hate everything about him, and his appearance. He's disgusting. The kind of guy you can not like just by the looks of em'.
I agreed with your take on the 0's until this post >>7772809
I think you're giving 0's too much credit. I've definitely encountered 1's at my school, but they're a rare breed and one that is steadily declining due to the massive influx of 0's who want a low stress, high paying job.
Here's my definition of a 0's.
>does the bare minimum to scrape by
>takes the easiest version of calculus, linear algebra and statistics they can
>failed algorithms at least once
>rarely codes outside of school
>no personal or side projects
>spends free time playing video games and watching anime
The 0's you described might actually have a talent for project management, which is more than what can be said for the 0's I described.
>extensible proofs and ways to articulate math problems.
> how certain mathematica structures, proofing methodologies, ripple and scale up to solve large problems
Sorry but that shit sounds cool as fuck and also professional. Completely worth.
To be more serious, I'd say that rigorous proof writing cannot be dumbed down to a technical skill, unlike being a computer scientist or a refrigerator technician. It is the purest form of knowledge adquisition. You can't write a set of guidelines to prove all theorems. You need insight that comes naturally to the very few.
Ok. Being a bit more serious myself. Id like to make the claim that all disciplines have shit tier practitioners and force a narrow approach to problem solving.
Math degrees will ring you through basic undergrad curriculum and condenses your work down to a set of Artin M math problems, or putnam puzzles. It is something that forces you to understand a set of truths which a professor thinks you need to experience on YOUR terms using a highly involved process of proofing. This involves full intimacy with the problem and personal discoveries that lead to a better understanding of the material.
CS is not different. If we learn something like Metropolis Hastings MCMC and are asked to implement it... We similarly engage in a seemingly narrow, but highly sophisticated process of translating thought into its atomic components.
Implementation is rigor in a different form. It is about the expression, exploration, and regurgitation of knowledge. Its about building on the bare basics we understand to acquire absolutely consistent knowledge that anyone can instantly validate and re-use in the future.
CS jobs are shitty for the same reason math jobs are shitty.
If you end up being an "analyst", actuary, or teacher after graduation you're still pretty much forced to follow a set of guidelines because its what the stake-holders think is the safest. The difference being that CS jobs are more abundant and software is a not always useful commodity.
>tfw you realize you're a 0
I get As in everything but I never code outside of class. I really enjoy the theory shit though, I'm just holding out until grad school so I can get out of the code monkeying part. I'm not a tinkerer, I have NO desire for doing menial projects to feel good about myself. I should have just done math or physics, fuck.
Do people really go through college without a github? My classes required handing in projects through github (except one class where we used subversion just to show us an alternative) I consider myself a 0 but I have never failed a class. I also haven't done any side programming besides a profile website but that shit is stupid easy. I never thought my school was that good because it was a liberal arts college, but my classes were focused heavily on theory. I have never taken a class solely for the purpose of learning a language. We were expected to just figure out language syntax and apply theory we learned in that language. Does this mean my college is actually good?
My university teaches the CS program from a more theoretical standpoint. It doesn't cover design patterns, resource management policies, or much of that stuff. Instead it deals mostly with computability theory, complexity theory, cryptography (though cryptanalysis and cryptology are covered as well), and stuff related to functional programming (including (dependent) type theory, category theory, and proof theory).
I disagree. I'd argue that there's at least two different components that come into play when writing proofs. One is being able to grasp at what the statement is really saying and why it "should" be true on an intuitive level. Another is being able to write out a formal proof justifying your beliefs (otherwise it's just wishful thinking).
The first component (intuition) is something that comes from experience and exposure to mathematical concepts. The second component follows systematically by working backwards from the statement you want to prove. Of course, there's many ways to work backwards and it's not always clear cut how to do it but for the most part it's systematic.
If you do not feel this is the case then I highly suggest you strengthen your background in logic and proof writing. You have nothing to lose and much to gain.
Our university has a gitlab server that we can use. It seems though that it's fairly new so only a few courses are using it. I agree that it should be more common because it's a very valuable skill.
Thats cool from an educational standpoint, but it's nice to do things through github in class because then you get them green squares and it shows employers that you are actually coding consistently.