I feel like all the people (especially women) who make fun of the friendzone or "nice guys" really don't understand how dating or human relationships work.
Guys get shamed for ever trying to get with a girl at all. Women literally cannot comprehend this because there's literally no scenario where a woman could ever not get laid.
There's no girl equivalent to a neckbeard or a "nice guy" because women never have to try to begin with.
Honestly, do women genuinely believe that all the guys who talk about the friend zone wanted to be friends purely for sex? Really? I'd be willing to bet the guy had genuine feelings for her in 9/10 of those scenarios.
And if he ever responds to rejection with anything other than "Oh okay have a nice day" he gets called a bitter loser, as if rejection is that easy to brush off. And women in general don't have to worry about this because they aren't the ones that have to seek out the partners.
So then it just becomes this self fulfilling prophecy where guys who probably just genuinely want some form of human connection get shamed for ever trying, especially if they get even the slightest bit angry at being rejected.
It's easy to shame men for this when, in general, these are scenarios women would not have to ever worry about.
Idk, sorry for the rant guys. I've just been thinking about this lately. What are your thoughts on all this shit?
Not much to say man, you're right. In our feminized culture men are shamed for everything regarding romance and relationships. Unless you're hot and women naturally flock to you, it's really hard and exactly like you said, a self-fulfilling prophecy, a feedback loop of pain and rejection.The only way is to not demand any justice because they use that against you. It's like black slaves who just got freed but still shit on as being worthless angry apes, and if they respond with literally anything at all, it would be "proof" that they really are nothing but angry apes. They could only hold their tongue and work hard to get into a great life position, which would allow them to then finally be vocal and flip off the world.
So idk man, I'm working on it too. Try hard, hopefully get hawt and a gf, then years down the line bitch like a motherfucker and the retards will go "omg hot chad dude is saying this? must be legit"
in the end though, everyone's fucking retarded and their opinions are as worthless as leaves in the breeze.
Most of them will never understand, we're doomed to live out the rest of our 20s as the bitter guy, and once we hit 30 our libidos will plummet. At least by then sex won't matter to us much.
> a woman could ever not get laid
>thinks relationships are just about sex
> wanted to be friends purely for sex
What is "pumping and dumping"?
> And if he ever responds to rejection with anything other than "Oh okay have a nice day"
That's how you should react to rejection provided it's not rude or cruel.
The "friendzone" is a joke.
>girl hooks up with guy
>"Yeah...so, are we dating now?"
>"Oh. I really like you, though. Can we still be friends?"
>doesn't make any attempt at friendship
>girl makes friend
>girl gets a boyfriend
>"friend" suddenly less involved in her
>girl makes friend
>girl has boyfriend
>girl has some sort of conflict with boyfriend
>is encouraged by "friend" to break up with him regardless of the context of the situation or what is best for her because he's trying to get laid.
People are shitty, OP and rarely value friendship unless there is some material gain. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.
>And yes, I am saying this as a bitter loser with no friends except when people want homework help
I'd jump at the opportunity to be rejected romantically and still get friendship. I'm shocked people would bitch about that.
>equating bitching about the friendzone to the Atlantic Slave Trade.
and atheists are the most persecuted minority!
i've never used the tipping meme until now, but you earned it, my friend.
You're absolutely right. But desu at this point I feel I'm just caring less and less about women. Make no mistake, I'm attracted to them and at times I'd like a gf but women today are just starting to make me less and less interested in them as a whole.
You won't love them anymore when you're shunned because you can't be "positive": while everyone else literally had tons of sex, settled down, hjad brats adjustedf......
and you're alone...... and don't want to raise someone elses bastards. When every face you could savor for a time.... is a guaranteed no.
You shut down, you shut off.... it kills you inside.
I think the problem is that some people have low standards for friendship that they just assume someone is their friend when they're just being polite.
>it's the same thing that makes robots "fall in love" with women who smile at them on the bus
They ask, she rejects because "who is this guy I just said thanks for bringing beer to Tom's party wtf". They lament being "friendzoned" because the rudimentary politeness isn't there anymore because she's worried about "leading him on".
Anyone could want a greater level of commitment in a relationship and be denied. You can be friendzoned, you can be "friends with benefited" zoned. Fuck, you could be "acquaintance zoned". This isn't some grand fucking phenomenon that is indicative of women's status in society, it's the simple fact that humans are jigsaw pieces without a larger puzzle to belong. We try to fit together with pieces we think will match, but they don't always too. When we do match, it is purely a matter of chance.
The only truly bad part about the friendzone is the fact that you can't even end the friendship politely without getting insulted. Women would rather you accept a toxic friendship than hurt their feelings.
>There's no girl equivalent to a neckbeard or a "nice guy" because women never have to try to begin with
And yet there are people that spread shit like http://imgur.com/kd67rAX around on the reg.
>complaining because "I have friends! You don't understand what a burden this is!"
>had tons of sex
Okay, I'll concede this is upsetting.
>complaining about not having something they don't want
Maybe the reason you didn't settle down was because your goals are entirely different than other peoples.
>raise someone else's bastards
>I'm a paranoid lunatic
>why don't women want to enter relationships with me?
>kills you inside
You know what kills me inside? No meaningful friendships or social interactions at all while my roommates laugh outside in the main room near my bedroom having a bit of banter with the lads.
But please, feel free to whine about how you (probably not so) secretly resent the people kind enough to be around you.
>There's no girl equivalent to a neckbeard or a "nice guy"
Hambeast or SJW
Girls don't really experience the friendzone in the same way that guys do, really only because girls who get stuck in the friendzone might have guys stuck in their friendzone, and usually guys who get stuck in friendzones usually aren't the type who have girls in their friendzones
But yeah, that's it
I agree with most everything else you're saying
I feel bad for men who get shamed for even trying to approach someone for dating. It's true that people make fun of them, when all they wanted was a connection like everyone else.
It happens to girls sometimes to though. I tried to ask chad if he wanted to hang out with me, and he said no and publically humiliated me for being so "desperate" for trying to get to know him. I just said ok and never talked to him again. Now I can see clearly the guy is an insufferable trash pile, but those are just my "nice-guy" bitterness thoughts I guess.
Ha, nice guys, I bet 90% aren't bitter, they just realized they tried to get with a total cunt.
The problem is that little girls are raised to believe they can be a Disney princess and boys are raised to be gentleman (in normal circumstances, at least). However, two things happen as the girls grow up: 1) people complement them on their looks, and they learn they can get away with a lot 2) they go through the emotions of having periods, hormones, Daddy issues, etc. and so they look for 'adventure'.
Guys, on the other hand, are still told not to be a dick. Some figure out that it's all crap. Maybe it's good betas exist. Survival of the fittest.
Imagine you're some highly skilled worker who can make 6+ figures a year. Someone comes up to you and offers you a job at McDonalds or asks you to do your job for a low amount of money. Wouldn't you feel insulted?
Similarly, if your attractiveness is below what a woman feels she deserves, then she will feel insulted by any "lesser" men who approach her. Women inherently have value because of their body, so an unattractive man approaching her is like someone offering you a shit job.
Listen, "nice guys" deserve the shame they get.
A man should never be "nice".
A man should be respectful to those around him, support his friends, and have a sense of honor. But he should never be "nice".
"Nice" means putting others needs ahead of your own. "Nice" means making yourself small to avoid conflict. "Nice" means living for the approval of others. "Nice" is, by nature, a feminine quality.
Nice guys end up in the friendzone because they have convinced themselves that some other human being that is no different from the other billions is somehow "worth waiting for", worth spending the time and money for. And it is a requirement that you have no self-respect to let some woman rule over your life, leading you around by the nose.
You can call people either malicious or ignorant, but either way, it's a fact that weak people get taken advantage of.
I'll give you this if you're a nice guy. It's not your fault you ended up like this. The shitty, loathsome school system and brain rotting mass media has fed you bullshit and taught you to be "nice". To hate your own masculinity and to fall in line. It's horrible what society did to you. But it is your fault if you keep acting the way you do.
Start being more masculine. Start being more assertive. Cultivate self-respect. And be your own man. That's how you lead a good life. That's how you start making things go your way.
I'd rather them be rude
that way i never get my hopes up she likes me
because desu i can't handle platonic emotional closeness... and the few who are left in my life that are female are either incredibly barely legal or incredibly ugly redneck types anyway....
you fuck off.
real friends don't care if you're whiny OR negative. period. they're FRIENDS.
they're there to support you knowing you'd return the favor if you could, even if they have to do it the rest of your fucking life.
because brats ruin bodies and the obligation even for the dumb 22 year old single mom IS to accept her as is, and raise her stepkid etc and not think about when she was firmer and more fun.
I am not a paranoid lunatic.
I've been through this befoire. they sleep around, then they pick up beta dick.
you know what meaningful means?
that it isn't vapid, small talky shit where they're only close *as long as you're FUCKING POSITIVE and ENTIRELY NOT YOURSELF*
being able to actually lay next to someone you like the sight of and release so much emotional and physical frustration would also be cathartic.
and i resent them because pity sucks, and the only thing worse than pity is literally getting that civility shit where they fuck off asap when you're legit trying to be more toned down yourself.
it is. for both genders. piss off.
yup true, but hambeasts or really old/uggo/skeezy chicks stay in ours.
I've been here. I can't approach because if stranger, creepy, eww, get to know me, become friends first, you want just sex
if i get emotionally close......
oh god.... I can't.... I still hurt from the last time..... all of them...
I was raised to be a gentleman and I hate me for it... I feel like utter scum now.
try 15 years straight of rejection.
try being told what you just told me but also told love self, work on self
whyever would i believe in the self work or progress without any metric of such?
Nah it's never the men that get shamed, it's the approach. But people have their heads so far up their asses they assume that they arent dong anything wrong/creepy.
If you ask someone out in a polite normal way, and they reject you and "shame" you then as far as im concerned you dodged a bullet.
But then you get people who'll say something like "let's just be friends" which is literally a polite way of rejecting someone
I'd be a gf of a guy like that. Why the hell would I ever like him to be friends with a girl he's attracted to? And if he can handle rejection that's ok if it's only my rejection that I wouldn't give if he was my bf.
Stop telling the guy no girl with want him, not true.
and what the fuck do you do when you've ran out of people to be rejectedf by/blown off by/with enough attraction
where/how do you meet more, form a more than vapid/small talky bond without having the emotions end up pouring out becauise of a cute face and some emo bond shit that fucks with your head and *blam*
>And if he ever responds to rejection with anything other than "Oh okay have a nice day" he gets called a bitter loser, as if rejection is that easy to brush off.
Helps to remember here that that "bitter loser" stuff isn't about the guy in the situation, it's about the girl. It's easier for her to complain about "male entitlement" than it is to recognize that men have feelings.
okay out of those billions
you need to remove exotics, married, already dating, illegal, and say over 26ish, and mothers.
they won't rule my life but at the same time i want a complement and a confidante, i want a codependence, a trust. And I want that to be okay.
Thank you. You're an awesome human being. It's more like you can handle rejection when you're like a teen or early 20s
when it's not a lot on the line, but the more time passes, and the rarer attraction gets/the more you evolve as a person/the more things change for you to define attraction? Yeah.
I'm purple myself.
>I've been through this befoire. they sleep around, then they pick up beta dick.
Why do so many neckbeard "nice guy" types spout red pill quotes like they're the fucking gospel. I get being a bit down on yourself because you've not had a lot of luck with women but this is basically social suicide
oh not only that but once i was sold out by an ex friend
who was supposed to help me read signals and re-gain someone's interest
she even wanted to meet me in person for a while....
i've not been the same since she put the creeper (me) in his place... had a few more fucks, looked for guys on okstupid, went back home, and then met her best friend and future husband and marries him
and of course gains 15 lbs on him and stays home and raises pets and a garden... he pays for everything I guess, there's no way he was under, 30, she was 23 when married, probably older... we know how much a nice house, car, etc are .... he had to be former military, or rich, or something.
because it's gospel. i'm not a neckbeard per se
i have hygeine i tried etc.....
i don't want someone whose only sleeping with me to have the small testicled male husband to raise a stepchild/tolerate her being fatter on him/let herself go.
that's not LIVING man.,... god... I want to LIVE you know?
>The only truly bad part about the friendzone is the fact that you can't even end the friendship politely without getting insulted.
You're not required to be polite in ending a friendship, though. Just cut her off; you don't owe her an explanation.
>real friends don't care if you're whiny OR negative. period. they're FRIENDS.
Yep, they only care if you're getting laid more than them, then they resent you.
> brats ruin bodies
Are looks your only focus?
> I've been through this befoire.
Normie, ree, etc.
Don't worry guys, it's the SYSTEM that made you pussy and that's why you can't get laid. Not cause you're ugly or aiming too high or naturally weird. Never blame yourself, it's the femnazi society's fault.
At risk of invoking the "real man" meme, wouldn't a real man avoid blaming others for his mistakes? Hell, wouldn't someone with the least bit of clarity recognise that sometimes things don't pan out between two people and it has nothing to do with broader social structures?
Fuck, this is basically copied from Fight Club. I'm trapped in 2008 and I want to get off this ride.
>do women genuinely believe that all the guys who talk about the friend zone wanted to be friends purely for sex
no, but they do think those guys wanted to take advantage of the woman's desire to be friends to build up a romance, which was not in the contract. just like how women hate guys who sign them up for a relationship but actually just want to be fuck buddies, also not in the contract. or like how men would not be cool with getting into a lock-down relationship just to have the woman expect him to be cool with cuckolding, also not in the contract. if a woman asks to be friends with me, I flat out tell her I'm interested in dating and won't stop at friendship, and I will only be friends with her if she tells me that she likes to date friends. once there are no hidden expectations on either side, it becomes a lot easier both to have a real friendship and to develop a relationship. this is why some guys succeed at developing fuck buddies and you don't.
>if he ever responds to rejection with anything other than "Oh okay have a nice day" he gets called a bitter loser, as if rejection is that easy to brush off
it is, once you man the fuck up, and if you haven't manned the fuck up, women don't want you. these are not my feelings, this is the way of the world. if something's too hard for you, toughen up princess, there are no safe zones or trigger warnings in the real world. if you were born in the 1910s you would have had to go to a shitty war where you could get your cock blown off, why can't you as a modern man accept that life comes with risks and suck it up when things don't go your way? because it's easier for women? so what, you aren't a woman, don't compare your life to theirs.
Exactly. They're being so biased by assuming everything they do to approach girls is good. They're probably the type of guys to message a girl after she posts an angry facebook status about her bf and tell her she deserves better or some shit
>>if he ever responds to rejection with anything other than "Oh okay have a nice day" he gets called a bitter loser, as if rejection is that easy to brush off
>it is, once you man the fuck up
Well fucking said
I know you guys hate reddit but r/creepypms is filled with guys who can't take rejection well. The sad thing is they never learn so I bet they go and do the same thing to other girls, then when they're convinced the game is broken, whine about it on 4chan
The Just World Fallacy is "the victim must've done something wrong, because I refuse to accept that I live in a world where I could get hurt for doing nothing".
Anon said, "most nice guys who say they're nice really aren't". This isn't the just world fallacy, this is an assumption that humans are dishonest in their representations of self.
If the "victim" is women in this example, then anon is saying nothing about their moral integrity and your example is wrong.
If "men" are the victim in this example, then yes that would count as just world if you equate "getting rejected even when you're a nice person" with "arbitrary acts of violence", ignore other factors in dating besides niceness, and assume anon is man.
Fuck, even the inverse, "the friendzone is real and women are cunts shaming men wrongfully" isn't just world either.
>using the fallacy meme
It's like I'm really on Reddit.
>women are the ones who are cheating whores, anon
No that's not a toxic, paranoid way to view the world. Keep it up buddy I'm sure you'll be happily married in no time.
If you think that even the girls worth asking out/being in a relationship with are also cheating whores deep down then why bother dude. Just get a waifu or something
Clearly missing the point.
>waaah why don't girls like me I'm such a nice guy
>bitch whore roastie cunt how dare you reject a nice guy like me
>it's because I'm too nice, girls only like assholes
If it was obvious you were only being friendly to get with someone (either for sex or a relationship) and the other person only wanted friendship then yeah they'll call you an asshole. Make your intentions clear from the start and there would be nothing to complain about. If you don't wanna be friends you dont have to be
The game IS broken, though and no amount of "man up" bullshit is ever going to fix it.
If people are calling you an asshole for not wanting to be friends with someone they're not really your friends.
every game is broken. every single game in the world. the world is not completely just. just think of how unfair it is that you can sit on your computer all day and be useless and comfortable behind a screen while hundreds of millions of people can't even afford proper housing. but you don't care about that, you're too busy being mad at chad for being better at getting laid than you.
if you can't deal with an unjust world, kill yourself. if you want to keep living and you want things, learn to play by the rules of the game whether or not you like it. no one is truly free in this world, that is our curse as human beings.
One of the best posts I've seen on here.
I agree with you, but I am unable to play the game. It's partially my own personality, and partially how I was conditioned by my parents and the surroundings. I am too timid, and that's killing me. I'm still pushing through life somehow, though.
you're making excuses, really
I used to talk like you
then I realized I would rather step out of my comfort bubble than die alone
it hurt, a lot, and it still hurts sometimes, but like anything the more you try the less terrible you'll be and the more you'll accomplish what you're trying for
this is the basis for PUA, it's also the basis for building a business. it's also the basis for getting through life with any modicum of success. the other option is to grab a rope and make yourself taller.
I have little interest in sex and thus don't really care who's better at getting it than me. All I'm saying is that it's kinda ridiculous to tell men that all they need to do in the face of rejection is "man up." You know, because you're not allowed to be disappointed or upset, because God forbid a woman should feel uncomfortable.
I don't know if it's my comfort bubble speaking, but I don't want to deal with girls. Yes, I'd like to fuck some hot ones for sure, but getting to that is too much fucking work.
My current goal is to somehow acquire some self-esteem. Also to not feel inferior to everybody else while I'm outside, and not to feel like everyone is staring me while I'm walking through town.
you're allowed to be disappointed and upset. you are entitled to your emotions. what you do with those emotions, however, affects people around you, and it is your job to control your emotions in a reasonable way. just like a woman getting cheated on is not entitled to steal her man's credit cards and burn his house down, you are also not entitled to release your anger on someone who is honest about her feelings towards you. if you properly understand the situation, you won't be angry. if you truly cared about her, you wouldn't want her to be hurt by your feelings. shouting and lashing out at someone for not wanting to be with you is kind of like emotionally sexually harassing her, in that you're basically ripping off your pants in front of her, masturbating, and splashing her face with your emotions without her consent. contain your ego. I won't say it's easy, but being a gentleman is not about having things easy, it's about doing right by people around you instead of creating more trouble for everybody just to feel a tiny bit better about yourself for that one moment of emotional ejaculation.
so basically you want to be a pickup artist. fine, don't lie to yourself about what you want to be and that's the first step to getting what you want.
>so basically you want to be a pickup artist
The hell? How did you come to that conclusion?
Do you think that everyone who has social anxiety problems wants to be a fucking pickup artist? Stop projecting your views onto everybody else.
>what you do with those emotions, however, affects people around you, and it is your job to control your emotions in a reasonable way.
>...because God forbid a woman should feel uncomfortable.
because you want to have self-esteem, fuck women, and not have to deal with them. this is more or less the definition of a pickup artist, the numbers are just a way for a PUA to rate his personal progress.
Isn't it normal if you want to have sef-esteem, and also fuck women without having to deal with them? I'm sure a lot of robots on here feel like that. Do you seriously think all of us want to be pickup artists?
Also fucking women is not my primary goal, I mentioned how it would be great, but it takes too much effort. Self-esteem is the one thing I need. I doubt the only way it is obtainable is through fucking women.
women are already uncomfortable when they have to reject men. and the number one reason they turn it into a game is to make it safer for themselves. if men could deal with rejection by saying "ok, that sucks but I'll move on, have a good day" then women would feel encouraged to tell their feelings quickly, honestly, and directly. you need to get over your belief that women owe you everything and they need to satisfy you before you have any reason to stop and think about them. just mull on this: you want to date this woman. what do you think dating is? is it servitude from the woman to the man? how could you ever consider yourself relationship material enough to address a woman for the purpose of romance if you come predisposed to hurting her emotionally or physically once she rejects you?
most of the people here don't want to plow through women in large numbers, but that's not all there is to the art of pickup. the art of the game is to increase confidence in yourself, and ensure you get as much pussy as you want, as quickly as you want, with minimal effort and drama, at the best quality you could hope to attain. so yes, I think /r9k/ is full of aspiring pickup artists, who mostly do nothing to work towards what they desire. the rest chill in /fit/ instead, sometimes actually getting laid.
and no, self-esteem is not about fucking women, but it doesn't hurt either. having external quantifiers might help you get a better sense of your internal value.
Not that guy, but I don't lash out on women for rejecting me. A girl turned me down when I asked normally if she wanted to go out for coffee, of course not directly, but by saying that she has something planned that day with her sister and her friends. It's fine, I know that the world is unjust, that no one is entitled to anything, I am simply not good in her eyes (almost definitely sure it's the looks, but let's not get into that topic). I acknowledged this, and cut off my ties with her, as in, I didn't initiate conversations with her anymore. What is making my blood boil though, is that she sees this, and instead of letting it go, she not only approached me 2 or 3 times for talk, but also numerous times she would catch my staring and greet me, then I had to respond by greeting her back. Why can't she fucking let go? I do not want to be her friend, it is useless to me to be in friendly terms with someone you want to be in a relationship with. It isn't only a physical burden, but also a waste of time.
Having no self-esteem is a vicious circle. To get self-esteem, you need external quantifiers, but you can't get approval from the outside world if you don't behave confident, if you don't have it inside of you, but to have it inside you need external quantifiers...and so on and so forth.
you're not a bad person for wanting to end a friendship that is not meant to be, with a girl you wanted to date but who is also not meant to be. she may not be taking the hint because she's not sure of your level of social awareness. you can keep things simple by saying "we're not friends anymore, sorry, let's both move on and have a good life." after that point, anything she feels or does is her own responsibility and you have no obligation to give her anything else. but if she wants more closure, you can tell her that you were only interested in dating her, and that's off the table, so it's better to part ways.
you can have self-esteem without other people giving it to you. it's harder to earn it by yourself, but hard-earned self-esteem is also harder to lose, and that will help you live a more fulfilling life. stop trying to be a super saiyan god, goku, and learn how to go super saiyan god super saiyan with your own power.
> if men could deal with rejection by saying "ok, that sucks but I'll move on, have a good day" then women would feel encouraged to tell their feelings quickly, honestly, and directly
No, they'd just complain about men only wanting them for sex, with friendship being some kind of "consolation prize."
>you need to get over your belief that women owe you everything
I don't think women owe men anything, but I don't think men owe women anything either, especially not the suppression of our feelings because women don't like them.
No. It's the men. The leagues are NEVER TO BE DEFIED - unless a well aged chad anyway.
No. Looks are an equal focus. Without them my brain will not shit out oxytocin and dopamine by itself. It brings comfort.... it only needs to be X level of looks. I have no idea what nice personality IS... I mean, don't be mean to me or hurt me? Like that's it right?
But one thing I can tell you is I can't really help but wonder what they looked like and felt like before the child, moreover that's a financial and emotional burden I will never be ready for, at least as far as I am aware.
I'm not a normie. Stop it. I wish I were a normie. God.
>somet5imes don't pan out
okay if I try a 100 different ways to approach 500 different females eventually ONLY the females I can't EVER be interested in sexually as well as emotionally will be left.....
"real man" "mistakes"
not if the mistakes are unknowable, or aren't even yours.
The worst mistake I made was not being "stem smart" basically I lack an *aptitude set* entirely and am simply not built for manual labor (nervous system disorder is a real bitch cunt - when I get my neurology and sleep center visit I will at the very least hopefully be able to get a proper trainer/therapist this time and get back to work)
Which is why I say - no more friends. I know what I need in life in order to be able to thrive and move on/closure/comfort - and it's not a just friend is all. No idea where to meet someone I might find qt and at least even have something to talk about/bond with over. I kinda fell out of animu and vidya but still can talk about them/know them... and like a few tv shows, eclectic music tastes.... I just... turn into a space cadet in the moment. ADD meds would... not help that aspect (I've been there you might be more social - but you're WEIRDLY social and instead of being withdrawn you commit all sorts of faux pas and don't realize it at all)
Well, I didn't openly ask for a date, but she almost definitely guessed. I doubt she really thought I only wanted to invite her to coffee just because.
>she may not be taking the hint because she's not sure of your level of social awareness
Well, maybe you got the wrong picture from my story. She does greet me sometimes, but it's not that often. I'm almost 100% sure she just feels guilt or pity, and that's what's making me mad. I'd rather be hated than pitied.
How do I earn self-esteem by myself? I tried faking it, but it doesn't work.
>No, they'd just complain about men only wanting them for sex, with friendship being some kind of "consolation prize."
so where did you get your Ph. D. in female psychology?
>I don't think men owe women anything either
>especially not the suppression of our feelings
you are obligated as a human being to not let your feelings harm the lives of other people. there are socially acceptable ways to deal with feelings like love and attachment, but the only acceptable way to deal with anger and disappointment is to take it out on your own terms instead of burdening people with it. do not ever try to justify violence.
You aren't obligated to anything, stop deluding yourself.
I know you're trying to make us look bitter, that being the reason why we can't make it, but if we had the looks, it would be different.
If he feels bad, he should show it if he wants. You can't cater to everybody, you are going to hurt people, whether you want it or not. Most of the robots on here aren't aware that they're hurting some girls which like them, but see they are being ignored by them. It's not about the pain, everyone will get hurt one way or another, even chads and stacies, it's about dealing with that feeling.
Man up... i hate that fucking expression. It's nothing but a fucking empty hateful misandrist statement.
Are YOU showing us guaranteed "good" and how to execute it? Or are you just charging us for possible "good" via PUA? Exactly.
Also they want equality and rape us of our sociosexual leverage by getting the vote, then jobs.
We have EVERY goddamn right to want some fucking reciprocity in return. The contract has been used to wipe asses.
I'f I'm a douche - I'm a douche.
If I'm nice I'm also a douche.
Then when my personality completely turns into shit/crap/douche/whiny - I'm a douche - because I have no way to feel good about a personality that has no validation but rejection and last place.
This. And worse yet - I hate myself for being an asshole. I can't bear myself.....
But I've got my heart on my sleeve....
it's not dishonest to want to make a better impression/behave differently when motivated - it's CORE FUCKING NEUROSCIENCE.
Literally, core neuroscience 101. Why would you behave equally to a total stranger you don't care for, and someone you want to win the romantic affection of?.....
It's truefax. God why is a fucking blue pill HERE? Go to fucking /soc/ with your prettyboy kiind.
it's not really that we feel like this per se.
but we don't know how to be ourselves in a way that is likable - we are blamed for being disingenuous
but if we don't behave in a favorable way - we're douches anyway.
double bind scenario.
buddhism/psychiatry are fucking *bullshit* :)
NEED I REMIND YOU HOW OFTEN WE ARE ACCUSED OF WANTING NO EMOTIONAL CONNECTION OR ANYTHING DEEP - AND WANTING JUST SEX.
YET WHY WOULD WE WANT IT WITH SOMEONE WE FEEL EMOTIONALLY CLOSE TO /HAVE COMMONALITY WITH/FEEL "THAT WAY ABOUT" INSTEAD OF JUST EVERY FUCKING PUSSY OUT THERE EXACTLY?
Oh, right, congruence, fuck THAT shit.
oh, yeah, ADD meds are horrible for socializing. that's why I switched to modafinil to stop being so insane.
>she just feels guilt or pity
so tell her to stop it. she wants some kind of affirmation from you. tell her it's alright, you guys don't need to talk about anything. sorry to hear you have to get burdened with your own rejection, but you also have tools for moving away from it if you want to.
>How do I earn self-esteem by myself
it's not all easy, but there are ways. you need to be creative as a human being, which is easier than you can imagine. here are some ideas
>take some note cards. on one, write down something good you've done or you do, or a virtue of yours. write down your hobbies, your personality traits, something nice about yourself like your hands or your eyes, or height, whatever it is that's good about you. on the next, write down something you dislike about your personality or something you've done or do in a manner you regret. now here's the tough part, take some time to think of a way you can correct or improve on that negative trait. now you can appreciate yourself for thinking of ways to lessen your burden on the world and yourself and understand what good there is about you that you contribute to the world or yourself.
>alternately, improve yourself. pick up a new talent or hobby, improve your diet, sleep schedule, exercise routine. you will never regret an improvement you make in your daily or whole life.
I'm not trying to make you look bitter, you're doing that yourself. I'm also not saying your bitterness is why you fail, but it's definitely not helping. I'm saying you are a burden on the world, and the amount of pussy you get has no bearing on things.
but for the record, I've met a lot of guys who failed the genetic lottery and have gotten to be with nice women. good looks don't hurt for finding a first date, but without personality and respect you could never sustain a happy relationship.
>so where did you get your Ph. D. in female psychology?
I've seen this happen. Women get pissed off all the time when guys decide to cut them off after they try to friendzone us.
>do not ever try to justify violence.
Who said anything about violence?
Maybe I do fucking care.
Maybe I can't do shit about it but be angry at those with the money and power to do something about it.....
True story I might have long ago wanted to work as a lawyer for justice and fairness and from within the system.... before I woke up anyway.... whoops.
Justice and fairness are *moral*.
Now shutup libtardairheadean pig.
Besides *game* is fucking stupid. GAMES are fucking stupid.
Why should we do such stupid vapid shit?
PUA sucks aznd only works, if it does at all, on REALLY stupid barely legals and drunken hasbeen bar cougars.
I hate logical fucking vulcan shitlord nerdtypes.
Where the fuck are my fellow emos. I want to regress to dumbpeopledom because the logical fucking heartless vulcan shits make me fume.
THIS. They do JUST THIS.
Yes there is.
Because if you can't ever face her again or are hurt and depressed - she cant' cheer you up as a friend because well, yeah, that, so now one or both of you are a bad friend blah blah blah....
but6 did she really want to see you happy? does she know someone at leasdt you could be happy with? is there a legit reason for rejection other than "you're shallow" BUT "I can reject based solely on a lack of "attraction" "
Either she is a "friend" but not your friend - she was literally being "nice" and fakey as fuck OR she really likes your personality - thus literally rejected based solely on a lack of physical chemistry (weren't we talking about how the guys were vapid/just wanted sex just now?)
.... modafinil won't work for me. God I gotta get some more from modafinilcat ASAP
but really i wonder what a hedonic orgasm feels like, what genital sensitivity feels like... high school was so long ago and I didn't bate til 19 (and I already had partial ED and didn't know it) so... yeah I'm thinking add meds and a 1 a day cialis might give me closure, IDK for sure. I'll try modafinil with icariin first though....
I don't want to tell that to her, because I feel she will say something along the lines of "oh, I didn't even think of that", because it would be embarrassing for her to admit I guessed she felt pity.
>take some note cards. on one, write down something good you've done or you do
I seriously don't know. I only use my computer and study, that's it.
>your personality traits
I have a good sense of humour when I am relaxed, but that happens around people I'm really close with, or with people I've know for a few months
That's it, I guess I'm also too timid
>something nice about yourself
See above I guess, also height is 6'0"
>something you dislike about your personality
>or something you've done
I've fapped to a lot of sick shit
>improve on that negative trait
Uh, I stopped fapping to sick shit, but as for self-esteem, I still haven't got it yet
>you can appreciate yourself for thinking of ways to lessen your burden on the world and yourself
It's more about lessing burden on myself, but I can't lessen it because I feel mad that I haven't improved my self-esteem.
>improve your died
Already did that 2 years ago, also started working out around the same time. My body improved, but my mind is still the same.
I don't get it, I've done some improving, yet I still am the same.
I'm bitter not because I can't get any pussy, but because I can't fix myself even though I desperately want to.
PS does the modafinil work for add for you? I've tried it
but I might need a DOUBLE DOSE.... and well... 400 mg of modafinil twice a day seems REALLY harsh you know :(
also - yeah i know my age and place and league too well, my "anxiety" is a direct result of the conflict of my hearts needs and "reality" as well as what other people think in their heads, rather than openly admit....
God I hate that label "social anxiety"
naw nigga, i was always shy. but i was friendly before i found out i was the uggo, the nerd beta, the loser, the pitied one etc....
>It's nothing but a fucking empty hateful misandrist statement
good news, you sound exactly like bitchy tumblr feminists who also have words that they are too busy hating to actually try to understand the meaning of, so your flaws are not gendered, you just can't overcome your problems and the injustices you see in the world. woman up.
>We have EVERY goddamn right to want some fucking reciprocity in return
I don't care how you feel about women: the political group, but no individual human being on this planet owes you anything, regardless of your genitals or that person's.
god, you are a whiny little political bitch. stop focusing on women: the problem and start thinking about creative solutions to finding happiness in your life, because like it or not, the world is not about to change to give you what you are "owed" (because spoilers, you fuck, you aren't owed anything)
>Yes there is.
>Because if you can't ever face her again or are hurt and depressed - she cant' cheer you up as a friend because well, yeah, that, so now one or both of you are a bad friend blah blah blah....
>but6 did she really want to see you happy? does she know someone at leasdt you could be happy with? is there a legit reason for rejection other than "you're shallow" BUT "I can reject based solely on a lack of "attraction" "
>Either she is a "friend" but not your friend - she was literally being "nice" and fakey as fuck OR she really likes your personality - thus literally rejected based solely on a lack of physical chemistry (weren't we talking about how the guys were vapid/just wanted sex just now?)
What the fuck are you talking about?
That didn't argue against my points at all. Nobody had a responsibility to ensue someone else has a girlfriend. Would you want to date someone who isn't attracted to you? wtf?
better news: no I don't
you machismo fiulled macho mgtow fucks who bash those because "muh control what ya do with your emotions"
you already know there are X amount of limited outcomes to said emotions, given reasonable inputs that would elicit them
god i really hate libertarians
this "noone owes you anything"
STOP REINFORCING AND VOUCHING FOR SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE
IT IS OUR DUTY AS A FUCKING SPECIES TO REDUCE THE WORLDS HARSHNESS ON US ALL. GOD. FUCKING DAMN IT.
I can't stop focusing on women
women have flesh, blood, vaginas and boobies
there's no surrogate substitute which fulfills ALL the factors of INTIMACY now IS there you macho prickfuck?
NOBODY SAID OWED
WE WANT TO EARN IT
YOUVE NIIGGER RIGGED WITH BASHING AND EMPTY PLATITUTDES TO PROVOKE INCREASINGLY IRASCIBLE EMOTIONAL RESPONSES
SO YOU GET IT YOU FUCKING LOLBERTARIAN NECKBEARD.
You really don't fucking get it do you.
There must be some way to find MUTUAL attraction for everyo9ne, at least help those who ARE out of ways to help themselves find them.....
NOBODY can afford to visit every city in every continental us state, strike out in every college town/bar/grad school/starbucks etc...
do you even KNOW how draining that would be even if you were fucking LOADED?
you are conflating "entitlement" which nobody stated with - the reasonable premise that a mutual attraction is possible for EVERY fetish/individual for one, and for two, that you won't let people "earn it"
you just regurgitate man up, no entitlements, work on self until you die
humans weren't made to be celibate workonthemselvesers.
go back to fit/b. whichever you came from. i come here to get AWAY from fucking chad ass normies.
I've dealt with women too you know. And for years I've steered clear of the friendzone even if it means terminating a friendship that I knew wouldn't have worked anyway. I have zero regrets and I'm not haunted by crazy women who can't deal with being denied the friendzone. You shouldn't try to date crazy bitches if you can't handle their bullshit, but I've even avoided drama from crazy bitches by
1. not giving them my phone number
2. blocking them on messenger, deleting them from facebook
3. keeping them away from main circle of friends and not getting involved in their circle of friends
Don't make things hard on yourself.
>Who said anything about violence?
release of anger on people is violence, no matter what form it takes. don't release your anger on people.
your understanding of social economics, and hell economics in general, is undeveloped.
PUA is not just magic tricks, it's a number of ways to understand yourself, bring out your attractive traits, understand the people you talk to and take advantage of what you know and understand to create a connection. It's not all negging and taking dogs with you to the park, some of it is about reading faces and the air, creating comfortable conversation, removing stress, and helping women realize you have good features somewhere in you.
maybe you should cut down on the ADD drugs in general, just have off-days. I ran modafinil 5 days on, two days off so I had time to breathe.
one of the big issues for men can be taking the one thing they want and putting it on the pedestal. for you, just the idea of having self-esteem is put on a high pedestal, so you're giving yourself way too much pressure. you can alleviate this by focusing not on how much self-esteem you have, but instead just focusing on improving one or two things in your day to day life. remember, life's goals are not endpoints, they are continuous 4-dimensional paths, journeys if you will instead of finishing lines.
do you blame women for your lack of self-esteem? if not, then you don't need to feel bad or angry when you get rejected, the two are separate issues. maybe you would succeed if you had more self-esteem, but that's not women's fault, it's just your own personal challenge to work on.
> You really don't fucking get it do you.
You're putting words in my mouth. I think you have me confused with someone else.
All I'm saying is, there is no such thing as the friend zone. She either wants to fuck you, or she doesn't. No 'zoning'. Either there is chemistry, or there is not, and guys who whine about having been 'zoned' simply don't understand basic human interactions.
I wouldn't say I blame women for my lack of self-esteem. I am aware though, that my self-esteem would rise if I started getting their attention though. But seeing how that's not possible (because it would happen by now), I have to find a workaround.
I don't feel bad and don't blame anyone, I am aware of how the world works. It's just that I can't help but get annoyed when some people have certain outlooks on the world, which I can't comprehend. For example, people which think justice exist, or which are ugly but are telling themselves that looks don't matter at all. I guess you can say I get annoyed at people's views rather than people themselves, because I understand how they obtained that certain view I hate.
My understanding of both is just fucking fine. Struggled for a B in econ, was a social sciences major.
I'm not ON them right now.
Fuck. I don't ever wanna deal with psychiatry again, so if my gp can't do anything..... ephedra it is (because ephedrine itself is banned)
PUA is shitcrap and will not work on any remotely intelligent woman. Ever.
It also won';t work on prettuy ones. It has to be , by its nature, deceptive, manipulative, and canned.
I have not being fat, that's it. not being buff is a minus, sexual inexperience is a minus, smart doesn't count if it isn't stem smart/I can't come off as smart (irony school was the only thing I was really good at)
and you're telling an autist to read faces
besides when all you ever read is fuck you or fuck off
when you can't tell a he's looking at me funny from a just polite smile or a i could like you smile....
and I can't tell.
my good features may exist - but they're worthless to *ATTRACTIVE* woman, for example i'm a hopeless romantic.
everyone i've encountered somewhat romantically save one? Really sweet guy, tries very hard.... etc etc...
hippie woo and autist brain do not compute.
Lifes goals ARE the ends. I think in means and ends. I think in material terms, cost benefit analysis, and does something actually get me what I want, or is it a vapid platitude?
ahh thanks for the info. man im flat out resistant to just armodafinil so switching back. fucking 83$ with prescrip assistance OR from modafinilcat. urgh.
and I'm saying the friend zone exists, and for both genders.
if there is not "chemistry" then she is responsible for preaching a fallacy: befriend me first or all you want is just sex - but she also says date just on personality - when she clearly is rejecting on something OTHER than personality. Damn.
>control your emotions
there is nothing gendered or unreasonable about asking you to be an adult and conduct yourself maturely and responsibly in society
>IT IS OUR DUTY AS A FUCKING SPECIES TO REDUCE THE WORLDS HARSHNESS ON US ALL
I agree. you can do your part by controlling your emotions. demanding things of everyone, holding everyone accountable for your emotions and burdening them with your rage does not contribute to an egalitarian reduction in global stress and unhappiness. it's like you read J.S. Mill and then did a shit load of cocaine before coming here.
>NOBODY SAID OWED
yes you did.
>I want vaginas
>you're a macho prick
amazing cognitive dissonance
I didn't TYPE owed
SO I DIDN'T SAY OWED
YOU ARE MISCONSTRUING AND SPINNING
GO BE A FUCKING POLITICIAN.
fuck stupid liebertarian heroes.
fuck logic only
fuck the vulcan shitlord coldhearts to hell.
where are my fellow emos. thanks and die already
No. I *NEED* vagina, Read ABRAHAM MASLOW :)
He's much more relevant than JS fucking MIll.
my god hurry up and finish your political science 201 phase please.
you're bitter because you're not getting what you want out of life. this is a fair reason to be upset, but fighting against the bitterness is what will help you begin to find success. don't hope for everything to magically become perfect, just slowly phase out the pressure you put on yourself and the disillusion you have with the world and phase in acceptance of the injustice of reality and enjoyment of what advantages life has granted you. then, in time you will begin you appreciate your life, and with that will come self-esteem.
>befriend me first or all you want is just sex - but she also says date just on personality - when she clearly is rejecting on something OTHER than personality
Nobody claims they just date for personality outside of Disney movies, pal.
autist though you may be, you have trouble assigned values to virtues and understanding how increase value by low risk, and how to create an equilibrium in the supply and demand of human virtue.
you're still thinking of PUA the wrong way. once again, it's not all mindgames, the whole point is to find new ways to encounter and at times have sex with desirable women. some of it is games and tricks, some of it is taking advantage of the science behind why human connections happen. you don't have to be a stupid and ugly woman to appreciate a man's ability to talk about his hobbies with passion and his ability to make you feel comfortable having a conversation with him. these too are part of the pickup game.
even as an autist you can learn to read faces. guess what, I moved overseas, to two different countries that have completely different nonverbal languages than anything I grew up to understand. I've had to relearn understanding nonverbal cues, twice, and I am far from highly socially aware. You can learn to read nonverbal cues, autistic or not, it's just one more set of symbols to analyze, Rainman.
maybe you think in means and ends but you don't have to. autistic or not, your life is still a flowing thing. if you can only imagine life as a series of points, then create a 4-dimensional view of it so you can focus on the big picture instead of a lot of small ones.
so how did Tesla make such good of his life without wasting his time on bitches? you don't have to get laid before you can live the rest of your life, you should live the rest of your life before reaping the bonus of getting laid.
stop whinging so godamn much. you are such a princess who wants everything spoonfed.
then stop faulting the other individual for a legitimate and valid need.
when you come up with "robots" that have compatible personalities and look, feel, taste, smell, sound EXACTLY IDENTICAL to the real thing to the point a side by side test makes them indiscernible? Fine.
Until then understand that in a case where one individual can't lower the bar any further, and that they have no help doing less things wrong (again if the bar being too high is whats wrong and they can't move it below a 6 and let's say they're a 4 but a 7 would make them ecstatic right? Let's just say may-december relationships to sweeten the pot...)
thjis is platitudinal shitcrap
what if life didn't give me any advantage save for the *lack of* further DISadvantages?
that's about how it seems.
I don't give a rats ass about tesla.
i don't want to be an eccentric genius.
i want to be happy.
intimacy is necessary for this. i have felt it.
it is a much better "antide[pressant" and "mood stabilizer" than big pharma's toxins.
let it go.
macho AND ausfailian. ugh.
>then stop faulting the other individual for a legitimate and valid need.
wtf you keep putting words in my mouth. You're constructing an argument I never made.
I'm saying there's no such thing as the friendzone. That's it. I'm not saying men don't deserve love or any of the crap you're trying to pin on me.
I think you need to stop thinking you're nice, when in fact you are just spineless and can't say no. I'll bet you most if not all nice guys are boring and spineless fuckwits. Whats the point in having a relationship with a wall?
It's neither haughty nor incorrect. The idea of a 'friendzone' was invented to shame women who just don't want to fuck you. It's blaming them for being nice people, who aren't behaving the exact way you want them to. Don't you see how dumb that is?
>where have all the good men gone?
>all the good ones are either married or gay
>what happened to chivalry?
>where are the gentlemen?
These are the typical blurbs you can hear from normie women every now and then, yet only when men say this stuff it's considered "neckbeardish".
Guys put themselves into the friendzone because they can't accept that a woman simply doesn't like them.
You're not entitled to be liked by everyone, the same way you see women you have 0 interest in girls can feel the same way.
My girlfriend has a guy that's her best friend, she's pretty naive about the fact that the guy is literally infatuated with her. Does it bother me? No because in the 10 years he's known her, he hasn't as much as even gotten 1 drunk kiss... he's confessed his love to her before and nothing. She just literally does not see him as being attractive and you know why she even keeps him around? He does so much shit for her, picks her up when she needs it, fixes her car and things of that nature. The sad part is now I'm dating her and I can do the same things and instead of asking him, she now asks me... She now realizes that he really serves no purpose and as a result, she barely talks to him anymore.
A guy in the friendzone does it to himself.
>what if life didn't give me any advantage save for the *lack of* further DISadvantages?
It amazes me how anyone in the western world with a computer, electricity, and internet could say this. Even poor people in the developed world are far richer than more than half of rest of the planet. No, you are not disadvantaged. Do you have legs, arms, a face free of giant scars and burns? Even if you looked like deadpool and were the poorest man in America, trust me, there would be many advantages you've overlooked. Your biggest fault is your inability to appreciate the good in your life, and that's why you have no self-confidence. You need perspective.
>hierarchy of needs
yeah I passed high school psychology, cool. It's a psychological theory, not a law saying your life will be forfeit if you do not have sex as soon as you finish eating, drinking, and sleeping. There are many other needs that far outweigh sex. Once again, Tesla. I've survived with and without physical intimacy. It's not that great, stop putting the pussy on the fucking pedestal.
Don't worry, normie men, even negros are fighting for this cause. But no one will back you when you suggest lashing out against women who reject you because that's sociopathic behavior.