>>26342004 I stopped believing at 7 around the same time I stopped believing Santa was real. I started believing life was shit and I'll never have anything nice happen to me. Now it's not really that I don't believe in god, I just don't care.
>>26342004 Life is too short to dedicate yourself to somebody who's never made himself known to me. I'm one of a trillion creations, surely me speaking a few English words in my head and reading a book in said language will not affect if I enter heaven or not. My actions should speak for me as I try to help whoever the best I can and have not ended another's life.
>>26342004 >2016 >Still believing on a moral deity How can people be so pathetic? I understand believing on a higher force engineering the universe, but believing on a moral all seeing monster is plain up stupid
I'm 22 and still atheist. I simply see it as wishful thinking because to me the only justifcation is that "maybe something will happen that will prove me right."
>>26342401 I think it's more of a stance to take. You think you're smart by demanding somebody pick a side but won't accept somebody saying that they don't know but would believe if they had substantial proof
>>26342004 I'm too lazy to believe in god, all that work going to church, praying before meals and shit, meh, not worth it, I don't actively believe or disbelieve in any religion, I don't spend any of my time thinking about or caring about it.
>>26342433 The atheism vs theim fight, nobody is going to win at least not during a discussion. What you see as a proof that God doesn't exist, I see as a proof is God's existence; but we pick a side and commit to it, most agnostics aren't thorn between believing in God or denying his existence, they simply give up and don't want to be right or wrong. Don't come at me with the "you think you're smart", you're going against my character not my argument.
>>26342499 While youre not exactly wrong thats precisely how religion tackles every mystery. It bends the train of thought to say "his nonexistence is just proof that he is testing us" while an atheist would just stop at "his nonexistence proves there's nothing there." I don't see the problem with agnostics saying "I can't say for sure but if god came to me then I would believe." A religious person would reply that "god is always with you" or some similar mystical nonsense.
You're practically asking "does god exist?" And when somebody says "I don't know" you reply "LOL you're lazy and not an intellectual because you haven't tried hard enough to find out!"
>>26342004 >>26342254 >>26342316 >>26342401 >religion >believing in God is not enough for them they need to make up fairytales about him and claim themselves superior to other religions and beliefs by having the best fairytale >wanting to embarrass yourself this much
>>26342447 The most ironic part is that religions fags are so retarded that even in the bible god didn't want them worshiping him they way they do now Catholicism is the most hypocritical religion, they worship a fucking idol. God said not to in the bible. Retards down desu
at least other religions like Buddhist and Muslims or Shinto can get their religions straight.
>>26342596 >atheist >he thinks man is the highest authority >ergo, the realm of the mind is the finest form of creation >thinks a contest of human creation is embarrassing And yet you appreciate illustration, what's the big difference you cocksucking jabroni? I don't believe in god, but I believe in the greatness the concept can bring to the hearts and mind of man. Look at the fucking basilica.
>>26342631 My problem with agnosticism is that it literally is atheism, but you retards always go "Nuh uh!" if someone points that out. If you don't know if any deity exists, you don't believe in any deity. Why can't you fuckers accept that that puts you in the exact same camp as atheists?
>>26342661 Except it isn't because atheists are by definition strictly opposed to the idea. You're probably getting confused in that most people who call themselves atheist are likely actually agnostic
>>26342578 You either believe and commit to it or you don't. If you doubt God's existence you don't believe in him and there's no point in believing if you need God to pat you in the back and tell you "I'm right here son" that's not the way faith works.
>>26342661 >My problem with agnosticism is that it literally is atheism, but you retards always go "Nuh uh!" if someone points that out. If you don't know if any deity exists, you don't believe in any deity. Why can't you fuckers accept that that puts you in the exact same camp as atheists.
I neither believe nor disbelieve in any deity. It's not the same as saying "God doesn't exist" - I would disagree with that statement as much as I would disagree with the statement that "God does exist".
>>26342662 and the story is great in general, revelations and song of Solomon in particular are gorgeously written. God is a massive human achievement, a conceptual powerhouse and unwavering muse. I love mankind, I love art, I love storytelling- so even though I'm atheistic I love god.
>>26342745 Defending literally means to speak in favor of. If you believe in God, you defend your views and if you don't you do too. Stop trying to take the argument some place else, my point is that you have to commit to an ideology.
>>26342631 Agnosticism doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.
Firstly, you can't prove a negative so you're asking atheists to do something that is literally impossible. Second, theists were the ones initially making the claim of a God's existence, so the burden of proof is on them.
We have evidence and several instances of men creating gods, but we don't have any evidence of gods creating men or gods creating anything, for that matter.
On the matter of agnosticism, no one knows if a god exists. No one knows if they're going to wake up in the morning or if the sun is suddenly going to die out. But, we base our beliefs and actions on the knowledge we've gained about how the natural world works and the predictability of things based on patterns.
You don't know if your mother loves you, but you have evidence from your interactions with her to form a belief in the matter.
No you're an idiot. When asked "Do you belief in God?" you can't say "I don't know". Are you honestly going to tell someone that you don't know if you belief God exists or not? It's a yes or no question. You are theist or atheist.
>>26342004 I was an atheist from 2007-2014. After an increasingly bad run in life I had to reign in my degeneracy, and it was only a matter of time before I had to start growing up from fedoratheism and gain some self-awareness. It was that which ultimately lead me on a path whereby a higher power (god) was no longer a deniable presence. I'm glad I did because things have slowly but surely began to improve although i'm yet to rejoin the lapsed faith of my childhood.
>>26342876 >mm I like le atheists because they don't go into a room full of people armed with bombs and scream "logic" "reason" >I'm so logical and peaceful I don't care about anyone's beliefs that's why I go on le Christian and Muslim YouTube videos saying how stupid they are
>>26342812 same here. my mom was the "outcast" because she wanted to get away from it, therefore removing me from it. family basically ex-communicated us after that. it was ingrained in me to not have sex before marriage. it's deeper than that, really. i can't even do bad things, my conscience beats me up everytime. i have this really strong conviction not to do bad things to others, i can only guess that it was my upbringing.
i bet shitty people live with tons of guilt, i wonder what it's like to live with guilt. probably makes you fat.
>>26342894 Saying that you know for a fact whether or not a divine entity exists is stupid, ignorant, and arrogant. I'm an agnostic because, while I doubt the existence of a god, the moment I see undeniable empirical evidence I will fall onto my knees and become a believer. But not until then.
>>26342894 >No you're an idiot. When asked "Do you belief in God?" you can't say "I don't know". Are you honestly going to tell someone that you don't know if you belief God exists or not? It's a yes or no question. You are theist or atheist.
"I don't know" is the only reasonable response to being asked whether any deity exists.
>>26342894 This statement is illogical because God is uncertain either way. Christianity is based of faith, meaning the people don't need proof they just believe. Atheists don't have faith, many believe in the big bang and think of us a cosmic coincidence. The amount of evidence is greater for the big bang then God himself, but it is still uncertain and requires faith. So now both sides believe in something that is mabye wrong, but both have faith in it. What do you do if you don't believe in neither? This is when people who either don't care, or don't know come in. Existence is for ourselves in the end, God doesn't impact the mind, its unnecessary now for our survival. Christianity is a cult, we are supposed to believe in invisible people and make them happy by not raping people and singing songs. That sounds like bullshit, but it doesnt smell as bad. So now, people who don't know if God exists or dont exists, these people exist. It is buffoonery to say people like this don't exist. Agnosticism is being an optimistic athiest, it means harboring the chane that God might exist but for now the evidence is proving other wise but life itself is so amazing and incredible, you just don't know.
>>26343052 Not the guy you're replying to but it's not really acceptable.
If you know the components of cake and the flavor profiles of those components you can form some sort of opinion on if you'd like cake or not. But analogy with cake and god isn't entirely apt.
It's more akin to knowing if someone you're close to loves you or not. You'll never know for sure but you can infer from their actions how they feel. Theists assign characteristics and personality traits to their god. They claim their god interacts or at least can interact with the us and the natural world. The moment you give someone a description of something they can form an opinion on it. Based on what most theists, not just Abrahamic theists but all theists, their gods have feelings, emotions and beliefs of their own. If the way we perceive reality doesn't align with the description of their god, then how could you rationally believe?
I was angry because my puppy die and I didn't want to accept the fault, so I blamed god and become atheist. After a while I realized that was stupid and accepted that it was my fault. Now, I'm interested in taxidermy, but I'm too poor learn.
I'm not christian or agnostic, mind you, I know deities exist. I just don't know who to worship.
Uh, yes. If you are saying I have to pick either believing or not believing even though I disagree with the whole concept of (not) believing, that's essentially trying to force sb.
I don't think religious people are mean and I absolutely hate how atheists behave e.g. in the US. But if I choose to not engage in the concept of (not) believing, that is my own decision and not your call to make.
Kek, if god exists he's a the worst really, look at how he doomed everyone who browses this board. >but muh free will You keep believing that, maybe you should learn more about the human brain, go read Sam Harris.
>>26343135 >The amount of evidence is greater for the big bang then God himself when did the idea that the big bang and our universe is god in action get dismissed? Religion aside if not a higher power then what is the non-believers view on the big bang?
>>26342894 >Thinking the world is black and white >despite it being the current year Get it together senpai Agnisticism is literally living our negative freedom of religion, the freedom to abstain from any and all religious discussion because there's absolutely no point. Why not focus on secular objectives to make the world a better place? Also there can be theist agnostics and atheist agnostics, it's about accepting that there's no definite answer but you can Interpret arguments an both sides ans way you want
And why? There are tons of excellent scientific arguments for not picking a side because the concept of (not) believing is not scientific. How does taking part in this discourse and stating my opinion regarding both theists and atheist make me lazy? You still lack the answer to that, all you say is that it makes me lazy. But you don't have any arguments behind this subjective claim.
>>26343143 Im a theist but my concept of god doesnt include feelings or emotions. Certainly I hold an individualistic belief of my own, but is it not our duty as men to objectively form our own conclusions based on the evidence available to us?
>>26343234 Because believing in God involves Faith, saying that you would believe if you had proof defeats the purpose of religion, you might as well don't believe at all and commit to that. I already said this but you don't want to understand.
You believe the ground is going to be there every time you take a step. You believe that your car is going to stop when you press the brakes. You believe that when you eat the food isn't going to start pouring out of your armpits.
These are rational beliefs. You have empirical and testable evidence on which to base these beliefs.
Most people don't believe the sun is going to magically turn into jello one day or that all the water on the planet is gonna turn into tacos because don't have anything hinting that any of that is even slightly probable.
And you don't understand, despite several people here repeating the same differentiation over and over again, that "not believing in a god" does not equal "not believing". Not believing in a god equals "I believe there is no god" whereas not believing equals "I do not engage in the concept of believing, should it be that there is a god or that there is no god"
>>26343333 >Nice quads. I don't follow Abrahamic scripture so unsure of job. BTW disbelief in religious practices don't justify disbelief in god. God won't blame you for questioning his presence though.
All of the worlds most impoverished and utterly fucked by life people on the planet are also the most devout believers so I really don't see what the big deal is. If there is a god out there he doesn't seem to give much of a shit
>>26343462 Any school of thought that claims god isn't a perfect being is pretty fucking pointless. Why should I give a shit about him if he's no better than any jackass here on earth. That's like believing your parents have inherent value or wisdom just for being your parents
>>26342894 >Hurr im better than you because im 100% sure a sky fairy daddy exists even if i have never seen one, how dare you not believe in made up things
I find it funny how your god is supposed to teach you to be meek, but the fact is all you enlightened by holy spirit wankers just project your desires into a jewish mythology book (which could have been a different mythology depending on your location) and convince yourselves that your interpretation of it is the righteous one so you can feel superior. Creating imaginary friends is something little children do, which makes the op post even funnier, even if he is baiting. You can parrot your le dib menorah memes now
Atheism is fucking degeneracy. it supports the death of european culture which is obviously based around christian traditions.
On top of that, this worthless dogshit ties together with communism and cultural marxism. It tries to scorn you as well for trying to lead a spiritual life or even desiring it which is an awful, unhealthy mindset. there are several studies on top of that, which show that religious people are happier in general than fedoras. exactly as it should be.
proud to be a catholic because fuck idiots who try to act like science can ever replace religion (totally not a different pair of shoes right?) which is the most retarded shit I've ever heard in my fucking life.
European culture is actually based around overcoming christian belief as the only source of guidance for everyday life. I agree with you though that it is pretty stupid to despise christian ideas while at the same time everybody goes like "hurr durr, but the muslims are so great"
I can't believe in God. I think it's logically impossible, and if I'm wrong on that then there's certainly not any evidence there for me to be open to the idea. I mean, you shouldn't need evidence of something NOT existing. You might as well be open to the idea of any ridiculous thing you make up. Like as obnoxious as the flying spaghetti monster thing is, it's a very good point.
I still identify as a moral person though and a Christian in the Jeffersonian sense.
>>26343434 Not sure why you are so upset, but i wont sit in judgement. In fact I hope you are alright. My god doesn't judge or punish disbelievers so its not my place to either.
I do enjoy science and mathematics though. As did Isaac Newton before me. He also believed in god. If you can't see a higher power then there is undoubtably good reasoning that is no concern of mine. Just don't beat yourself up if you should come to discover his presence one day.
>>26343590 >Atheism is fucking degeneracy. it supports the death of european culture which is obviously based around christian traditions.
*cringe* And yeah, obviously every atheist believes islam dindu nuffin and basically has the same exact mentality. People should really drop this me-vs-you attitude, because it isn't good for anyone. I'm going to spare commenting on the relation between religion and science since that would take too much time, kek.
Religion is part of the human identity. We are the only creature to ever engage in that, excluding neanderthals, and (I like to believe) elephants, who take interest in the bones of their dead.
Anyway, the problem is that modern religions are utterly braindead, that's just the reality we live in.
You have to define your own religious beliefs/ metaphysical beliefs/ illusions that keep you going for ex. It's all good as long as you know that the things you believe are not necessarily true, and likely untrue, maybe completely illusory.
It takes discipline to believe in spite of your own knowledge. And that discipline is much, much higher than blind faith without doubt.
>>26343725 pathetic attempts to type in ebonics how is it an attempt, how is it even ebonics. Like if I removed the word nigga from it you'd have no cause to say that. Pathetic attempt, and they say atheists are fedora tippers. I'm fucking black you jackass. Does that qualify me now? How do I cross from mere pathetic attempts to actually typing in ebonics?
My family was devoutly religious, so I didn't have much of a choice. My parents made church attendance compulsory, and would literally beat me if I said I didn't believe in God. Around the time I left home, I was free to be myself and question all the nonsense my parents had pushed on me. I was still uncomfortable with atheism, but frankly, the only "faith" I had in my religion at that point was based solely on the fear of eternal damnation.
Having later met a few atheists, the idea started to grow on me. Here were these normal, well-adjusted people who just happened to be atheists, which was completely unlike the negative stereotypes that my parents and fellow churchgoers kept pushing. So, gradually, I allowed myself to question my faith and distance myself from my parents' belief system. It took several years for me to set aside all my fears about hell, but all of that eventually diminished in my late 20s, once I became more exposed to the world and realized how the logic just doesn't add up:
- There are a lot of mutually-exclusive belief systems in the world, and their followers seem just as certain about their faith as anyone else is about theirs. Who's to say any one belief system is the right one? - If I were born in any other part of the world, I would probably be raised with a completely different set of beliefs. Is religious faith not simply the result of cultural indoctrination? - God can't be benevolent if he's willing to condemn people to eternal suffering for transgressions committed in such a short and otherwise meaningless lifetime. That would be an act of outrageously disproportionate retribution. So even if God exists, how could I possibly convince myself that my relationship with God is any different from a hostage throwing themselves at the mercy of a gunman?
>>26343788 No, not really. Religion is a side effect of people learning how to get ideas, based mostly on their imagination, since they weren't able to properly analyse the world around them without knowing certain laws. Science is about being able to figure how things actually work. You would agree religion has been an obstacle for science numerous times (popular example is how heliocentrism was claimed a heresy) unless you are one of those people that think the descriptions in bible are just metaphors. I don't see how religion is helpful for anything in modern times, now that we know much more about the world.
>>26343933 Thats a pretty sad comment and I hope you aren't hung up on things and don't blame your parents for their personal faults or resent god for allowing them.
God does not sit in judgement and should not be feared, eternal damnation is merely a human concept. God welcomes questioning and will not punish you for engaging in disbelief.
>- There are a lot of mutually-exclusive belief systems in the world, and their followers seem just as certain about their faith as anyone else is about theirs. Who's to say any one belief system is the right one? Its up to you to decide for yourself what your beliefs are and to remain entirely impartial to the belief/disbelief of others.
>- If I were born in any other part of the world, I would probably be raised with a completely different set of beliefs. Is religious faith not simply the result of cultural indoctrination? It certainly wasn't the case for me as I was raised in a secular household and now hold a firm belief in god, although i'm not religious.
>- God can't be benevolent if he's willing to condemn people to eternal suffering for transgressions committed in such a short and otherwise meaningless lifetime. That would be an act of outrageously disproportionate retribution. So even if God exists, how could I possibly convince myself that my relationship with God is any different from a hostage throwing themselves at the mercy of a gunman? God remains impartial to the minutiae of human existence.
>>26344268 Because theists are the ones making the claim of a God's existence. Also, you can't definitively prove something that can be entirely subjective. The meaning of "existence" can change depending on who you ask, so can't definitively prove something like that. At best, you can prove there's a shared reality. If I stab you, you're gonna act like someone who just got stabbed.
You don't get to go around shoving your beliefs in other people's faces, then demand negative proof when they don't comply with you. That's not only inherently wrong, it's being a jackass.
>Hey Anon, you should believe in God or you're going to burn in hell! >Sorry, man. You're entitled to believe whatever you want, but I haven't seen anything substantial enough to suggest that God exists. >Oh, yeah?! Well can you prove that God *doesn't* exist? Haha! Checkmate, gaytheist!
I'm an atheist and I know that you don't have to follow a religion to believe in god. The thing is that most people who do believe in god are religious in some form. This should be pretty obvious. The idea of god is entangled in the idea of organised religion. In particular, your idea of there being one singular god is heavily associated with judeo-christian belief.
>>26344701 >>Hey Anon, you should believe in God or you're going to burn in hell! >>Sorry, man. You're entitled to believe whatever you want, but I haven't seen anything substantial enough to suggest that God exists. >>Oh, yeah?! Well can you prove that God *doesn't* exist? Haha! Checkmate, gaytheist!
I never said any of those things, indeed i've never forced my beliefs onto anyone. However if you don't have an answer for my question then your grasping at straws is understandable, although not entirely reasonable. Also there is really no need to attempt to be insulting. Be reassured that I won't judge you on your poorly placed anger aimed toward me anyway.
>>26344831 >your idea of there being one singular god is heavily associated with judeo-christian belief. Not sure why you are attempting to dictate my beliefs to me, although honestly i've come to expect that from atheists.
>The thing is that most people who do believe in god are religious in some form. The belief/disbelief of others shouldn't hold sway on your belief system or else it is you are failing to remain objective.
>The idea of god is entangled in the idea of organised religion. That's only true for the masses who lack alternative resources for information. Many educated westerners live a secular lifestyle but still hold a firm belief in god, myself being one such instance. It is my opinion that you are operating on a mischaracterization, probably perpetuated by the media.
Looks like you're just trying to pick a fight or whatever. I get that you don't like being lumped in with religious people, but you did ask me why atheists lump you in with religious people, and I gave you your answer. I even told you that it's not something I necessarily do. And by the way, I'm not dictating your beliefs to you. You dictacted them yourself by talking about your belief in 'god' not 'gods'. It's a pretty safe bet that you're a monotheist.
>>26345227 >Looks like you're just trying to pick a fight or whatever. I apologize if it appears that way, it's certainly not my intention to fight although it's a divisive topic and passions may flare, but I attempt merely to engage discussion.
>I get that you don't like being lumped in with religious people, but you did ask me why atheists lump you in with religious people, and I gave you your answer. Fair point, although for future reference it is a mischaracterization and one I would hope people will be willing to reconsider, especially when it's unfairly perpetuated in the media.
>I even told you that it's not something I necessarily do. And by the way, I'm not dictating your beliefs to you. Fair point. Nor is it my intention to dictate my beliefs onto you or others.
>You dictacted them yourself by talking about your belief in 'god' not 'gods'. Perhaps I could have been more in-depth while describing my views. To me "god" is merely a label to define a higher power. That higher power is a metaphysical concept not bound to any one such devotion or religious practice.
>It's a pretty safe bet that you're a monotheist. Please don't underestimate other peoples capacity for belief, to me god is literally everything in existence. Regardless of what we as individuals perceive as good and bad it's my view that the entire universe operates in a gray area. Heaven and hell are merely human concepts and my god isn't a judgmental or benevolent overlord.
>>26344241 What I'm trying to convey is that our existence is completely subjective. What we base our logic off of is nothing. Our standards for how the world works is complete guess work.
You take too many liberties As to what you believe is objective. That's fine though as 99 percent of the population is with you; you'll never be questioned. You will always be right based out our arbitrary assumptions.
I challenge you to try to disprove logic. It's completely possible based on no logical fallacies, yet it lies beyond the limits of most minds as it requires you to completely reject any previous beliefs you've been indoctrinated to believe.
>>26342316 >because it means they don't have to commit to any ideology >protip: 90-something-% of the so-called committed ones are full of shit Presuming you tip to the Dawkins' rhythm, chances are, you are too.
Accepting the notion that your consciousness (= what you are) is an illusion to supposedly elevate your euphoria is pants-on-head retarded, and not even the supreme gentleman could pull genuinely it off.
>>26342940 I identify with everything you've said. Honestly I've never really seen Jehovah's Witnesses in the wild but whenever anyone mentions them on here a bunch of people say their family was also in the cult. I think there's a correlation between social isolation (couldn't celebrate birthdays/holidays ever) and insanely strict moral upbringing that leads us here.
One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord. Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.
In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand. Sometimes there were two sets of footprints, other times there was only one.
This bothered me because I noticed that during the low periods of my life, when I was suffering from anguish, sorrow or defeat, I could see only one set of footprints, so I said to the Lord,
"You promised me Lord, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I have noticed that during the most trying periods of my life there has only been one set of footprints in the sand. Why, when I needed you most, have you not been there for me?"
The Lord replied, "My precious child, I love you, and I would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you saw only one set of footprints, it was then that I carried you."
>>26346806 >shit happens in life >overcome it through pure will or just dumb luck >"EET WAS DUH LAWD BOI :)"
>shit happens in life >don't make it by >"DUH LAWD IS TEECHIN U A LESSON :)"
>shit happens in life >die >"EET WUZ HIS TAIME 2 MEET DUH LAWD :)"
it's literally a peasant mindset, you have to be fucking retarded to take this shit seriously, it's straight up the religion of "when something bad happens its your fault, but when something good happens its because of god"
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