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Why is abortion legal? its murder of unborn...
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You are currently reading a thread in /r9k/ - ROBOT9001

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Why is abortion legal? its murder of unborn children
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>>26292633
Because legally unborn children aren't classed as people and therefore have no right to life.
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Because of roastie. They have successfully justice murder because its "muh budy" and "its only a clump of cells"
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>>26292663

In that case, why is it illegal to kill niggers?
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>>26292633
I believe it should be allowed in some cases. Such as rape. Not just Stacy banging Tyrone.
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>>26292633
Always makes me wonder why do the leftist morons support right to abort but are heavily against death penalty.
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>>26292633
You murder people.

A fetus is not a person. It's like saying a removed tumor growth was murdered. Or an amoeba was murdered.
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the end justifies the means apparently
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Abortion is morally justified since the parents didn't have the fetus's consent and it spares the victim (fetus) from living a miserable life in this already overpopulated earth
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>>26292683
Because since the 13th and 14th amendments were ratified niggers are classed as people and therefore do have a right to life.
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>>26292695
>girl gets raped
>kill innocent child and let the rapist live
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>>26292711
Found the woman
Fuck off roastie
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>>26292663
>mfw libtards act like slavery was worse than satan but use the same logic people used on slaves on unborn babies
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DAILY REMINDER

30% of foster children end up chronically homeless as adults

Even the people who try to help abandoned children accomplish nothing.
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>>26292733
Its a difficult subject to discuss but you do bring up a good point.
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>>26292633
Moshi moshi talking point desu
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>>26292733
Both should be killed. Best option.
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It's not legal everywhere. Move somewhere else if you want to cry about it.
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>>26292771
I agree
The woman and the rapist should be killed
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>>26292743
Slaves were adults with minds, the ability to think and feel, and make decisions. They were negatively impacted by being enslaved.

Most unborn children who are aborted do not have minds capable of thinking and feeling. They are not negatively impacted (consciously) by being aborted. And I'm against abortion in cases where the fetus is developed enough to feel what's happening.
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>>26292704
Because statistically its been shown that more then 15% of those killed have later been found not guilty.
Also, the process is long and costly, lasting over a decade sometimes, with millions in trial costs.
If you wanna have a discussion about streamlining that process and only allowing it for murderers that are proven beyond belief like the Boston bomber, I'm down for it.

Also I'm pro abortion until 20 weeks as it currently is law, if the fetus cannot survive outside the womb its not a person.
Also don't pretend you care about people, conservatives care about fetuses, they immediately cut off any funds to help mothers or kids.
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>>26292838
>Also I'm pro abortion until 20 weeks as it currently is law, if the fetus cannot survive outside the womb its not a person.
Yes it is
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>>26292853
OK. Gimme a new cut-off point.
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>>26292853
As much a person as a plant.
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>>26292838
>Because statistically its been shown that more then 15% of those killed have later been found not guilty.
Where the fuck did you get those statistics from?

>Also, the process is long and costly, lasting over a decade sometimes, with millions in trial costs.
No, no it's not. Stop repeating the same bullshit every leftist keeps spouting. The EXACT same procedure has to be performed when you're about to put someone in penitentiary for life. You don't put people in pen "just because".

>Also don't pretend you care about people, conservatives care about fetuses, they immediately cut off any funds to help mothers or kids.
I don't care. I'm pro abortion AND pro death penalty. Being against either while claiming the other is fine is just illogical and hypocritical.
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>>26292878
Conception
>>26292896
Plants aren't human
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>>26292633
why is getting a tattoo legal? it's murder too in a way
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>>26292904
>conception
Why? Why not ejaculation?
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>>26292633
>Why is abortion legal?
Because womyn's rights--they should never be forced to accept the consequences of their actions.

I think it's ironic that atheists claim to rely on cold, hard science yet don't acknowledge abortion is murder. Anyone want to explain this to me?
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>>26292917
No unique dna and it can't grow into a fully formed human being on it's own
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>>26292853
It isn't even councious dude
Even after being born
Toddlers are philosophical zombies
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>>26292904
>Conception

This is moronic, and no one who claims personhood should be granted at conception has ever thought it through.

Granting personhood at conception is an absolutely awful way to go about banning abortion.
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>>26292904
Being human doesn't make it a person. An advanced AI could be a person. A braindead body could not be one.
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>>26292933
Why is unique DNA necessary?
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>>26292919
>I think it's ironic that atheists claim to rely on cold, hard science yet don't acknowledge abortion is murder. Anyone want to explain this to me?

It's simple. Murder is a legal term with a specific definition. Abortion doesn't meet that definition, just like killing someone in self defense isn't murder, killing someone through negligence isn't murder, and killing death row inmates isn't murder. Therefore abortion isn't murder. It's the killing of a human being, but it isn't murder.
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>>26292919
Morality isn't science.
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>>26292956
>Why is unique DNA
Because then it's separate being
>>26292951
>Being human doesn't make it a person.
Yes it does
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>>26292919
cold hard science doesn't count anything as murder.

scientists also usually agree that heart pumping or spinal cord development are more relevant stages than conception. if any diploid cell that is a little different than you is an independent person, then you shouldn't be allowed to eat meat or go out into the sun either.

how would you explain murder as something wrong anyway?
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Why is killing cows/chickens/pigs/etc legal?

It's murder of defenseless animals.
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>>26292903
I dont see how Its illogical to be pro one and not the other because both are completely different scenarios. In one, you do nothing to something that ever knew it existed, while in the other you eradicate a real human beings consciousness, because it's unworthy to breathe the same air as everyone else. Why not let them rott in a cell for the rest of his/her life with his own thoughts?
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God has a very special plan for all those stillborn fetuses that mothers have to carry to term despite the fact that the body is already dead
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>>26292695
What exactly is wrong with rape? Majority of the women in 1 st world put themselves in the position where they can easily get raped. 3rd world and 1 st world rape is different

Taking drugs and passing out next to a guy who then bangs you is different that some guy grabbing you and dragging you into a dark alley where you fight back as he force fucks you.
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>>26292933
If you can imagine any cell of yours being one day made to grow into a full you somehow in some circumstances, you must surely then consider every flake of dandruff a clone of yourself.
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>>26293030
>If
I don't
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>>26293030
But it is a separate individual
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>>26293029
>all men are natural rapists lol, so women should just stay away from them

can i guess your weight, whore?
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>>26293029

People walking through the ghetto or living in the ghetto definitely deserve to be murdered, I agree
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>>26292633
>unborn
>murder
MFW
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>>26293017
Anon, don't you see that the whole debate in case of both is about what do you consider a "human being"?

Abortionists don't consider the fetus (or whatever hasn't born yet) human, while many conservatists do.

Similarly, many conservatists don't consider a mass murderer a human being (as he gave away his humanity and human rights the second he did the deed) while considering the unborn a human.

As you see those are very much the same scenarios.

>Why not let them rott in a cell for the rest of his/her life with his own thoughts?
Because that costs money. Our money. Your's and mine. Not to mention how those fuckers actually live in better conditions than many normal hardworking people.
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>>26292997
So personhood is defined through uniqueness of DNA and a theoretical potential to grow into a full human being?
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>>26293056
>mfw poor people deserve to be treated bad if they buy things
>mfw ugly people who show their face to others should be bullied
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>>26292997
>A single cell should have the same legal rights as a grown ass man
>A bunch of cells should have the same legal rights as a grown ass man
>A human corpse should have the same legal rights as a grown ass man
>A vegetable should have the same legal rights as a grown ass man

If you're serious about this and you only argument is stupid definition of words, you should kill yourself right now.
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>>26293071
>So personhood is defined through uniqueness of DNA and a theoretical potential to grow into a full human being?
Yes
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>>26293076

>ass man
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>>26293081
so then every stem cell in your body then.
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>>26293048
And yet it's possible that you could be wrong.
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Women who would want to abort but don't just make bad mothers.
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>>26293081
What happens when random everyday occurring mutations make slight changes in the DNA?
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>>26292633
Pretty sure this is
>pic related
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>>26292919
You people are all fucking IDIOTS...

A clump of cells is NOT a person. It is a fucking CLUMP of CELLS. By that logic, get rid of condoms and birth control! You stop them from coming together, must be murder!

Don't stop there! Every day, unused sperm from a man's testicles dies! Those MILLIONS of sperm COULD HAVE becoming a person! Arrest all men for murder!
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>>26292919
How come nobody ever posts le hat meme at these people who go on about atheists all day?
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>>26293132
>By that logic, get rid of condoms and birth control!
Nothing wrong with that
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why is masturbation legal? it's murder of unzygotized children
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>>26293157
Okay, that's fine, let's keep going,

You masturbate recently? You're a fucking murderer. That sperm COULD have became someone! (Even though unused sperm still dies every day)
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>>26293179
>You masturbate recently?
I don't masturbate
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>>26293157
hahaha this fucking guy
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>>26293195
That's fine, unused sperm still dies regardless. You are a murderer.
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>>26293203
Unused sperm has isn't separate being capable of growing into a fully formed human on it's own
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>>26293068
So you basically lose "human status" by killing. Revoking someones right to breathe because he doesn't match your standard for what you deem human. I agree on the last part though.
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>>26293215

>implying an embryo is capable of growing into a fully formed human on its own

You're forgetting certain environmental factors here
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>>26293224
Kind of. Except it's up to the murderer (or the mass rapist, whatever) to lose his human rights. The penal code is available for everyone and the law is the same for everyone. He consciously commits the crime and therefore consciously rids himself of his right to live. And his humanity. He's not human =/= doesn't have human rights.

Not to mention how imprisonment itself is actually also a breach of human rights and yet, nobody seems to be bothered and everyone thinks that this particular thing is fine. Because he's a criminal.
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>>26293258
If left unmolested it will
Consent is give for an embryo to grow in a woman when you have sex. Don't have sex and no problems
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>>26293215
a fertilized egg doesn't grow on it's own, what do you think would happen if you removed it from the female?
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>>26293276
See everyone, THIS is the part of the tfw virgin transition where the person gets so butthurt that they think that they are CHOOSING to be a virgin.
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Why do men feel like they have the right to tell women what to do with their bodies? It's not like men are carrying the fetus, the abortion doesn't affect them
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>>26293203
There's sperm banks, you know...
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>>26293321
I mean unused sperm in your testicles, you autist.
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>>26293301
I don't think he's serious tho. I have a hard time believing someone this conservative and ignorant is able to post on 4chan.
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>>26293318
Kek, they literally say shit like this. 10/10
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>>26293318
>why does the holder of the bank account feel like he has the right to tell the bank what to do with his money

>>26293336
It's there as a part of me you moron.
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>>26293336

Each of those sperm have a potential personality and a potential life full of love and happiness ahead of them. You are killing future scientists by failing to deposit them securely in a sperm bank. There are millions of infertile fat lesbian women out there who would love to raise your autistic potentialchildren
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>>26293361
You do realize that freezing them doesn't keep them alive... right? They never really were alive to begin with. Still, most of them will die in the fertilization process since there is only a single egg cell.
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>>26293266
Safety first. Obviously we're going to contain them somewhere in order to avoid them repeating it. Killing them however, doesn' serve anyone justice.
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It's legal and there's nothing you can do about it so fuck you.
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How about abortions for some, miniature American flags for others?
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>>26293301
Everyone on this board that's a virgin is choosing to be one. Prostitutes exist
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>>26293390

Most IVF treatments result in multiple fertilized eggs because they inject each egg individually. Anyone who has IVF generally aborts multiple embryos to achieve a single-child pregnancy. But they don't call it abortion in that case, for some reason. Octomom was one of the only honest ones.
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>>26293351
And? You make 20 million sperm everyday the fact that one became a zygote is inconsequential. Pregnancy is incredibly taxing on the woman and can actually kill her so pretend like the father shares the burden pre-birth.
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>>26292633
Because antinatalism is moral, having children is immoral, and kids aren't even conscious until they're like 2 years old.
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>>26293429
>it's alright to kill an infant because women's ankles hurt when they get pregnant
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>>26293391
Anon what? It literally does this. You clap the guy and forget about his worthless existence. He's never going to hurt anyone again. Keeping him in jail serves literally no purpose. If only the prisoners were at least forced to work for their food or something, it might remotely make sense. But in the current way, where they're just financed from taxes, it's absolutely ridiculous.
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>>26292633
>Why is abortion legal? its murder of unborn children

When one inspects this a bit closer, it is bait. Namely, murder is illegal by definition. And so, OP's question is not really a question, 'why is abortion murder? it is murder'. And so it is betrayed that it is just an opportunity for OP to state his prejudice, by using the words 'abortion' and 'murder' in one post.

/thread
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>>26293390
>they were never alive
exactly the point you're trying to argue against
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>>26293447
You're underage right? Have you never taken a rudimentary health class? It's much more than swollen ankles lad
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>>26293429
Jesus christ don't you realize that it's the fathers' obligation to keep the mother of their child secure and well nourished? THAT is a burden. How many pregnancies end up with a death after all?
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>>26293132
>clump of cells argument
Every living thing is a clump of cells
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>>26293457
That wasn't me, I just jumped into the discussion.

>>26293447
>it's alright to kill a innocent tumor because women's lungs hurt when breathing
Well, it actually is. You argument sucks.
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>>26293472
>tumors are humans
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>>26293477
Maybe 500 years ago m8. That kind of thinking doesn't carry in the modern world.
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>>26293486
>Every living thing is a clump of cells
Point being?
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Because life is pointless and doesn't matter. You are operating from the false assumption that it does matter.
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>>26293497
meant for cuck >>26293490
>>26293500
>CURRENT YEAR
that's not an argument
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>>26293516
It's not an argument it's facts. Men aren't expected to protect women anymore so that concept is null
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>>26293500
Yes, it does. It's completely natural for the father to care about the mother of his child. Unless he's a nigger of course.
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>>26293512
That's a retarded way to say it, but also this. You objectively can't make a case that something is right or wrong. You can only speak about its material consequences, 'if you scrape this thing here that shows some vital signs out, this and this is likely to statistically happen to the mother- (and father-)to-be'.
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>>26293507
>Point being?
You're a clump of cells and (barely) a person
You asserted that a clump of cells isn't a person
>>26293540
Men are expected to work and provide for one
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>>26293497
They do have human DNA, potentially harm their host in some way and aren't intelligent. Therefore, they aren't that different from a fetus.

>>26293486
Yeah, but everything that's not intelligent is nothing more than that.
A flower? Just a pre-programmed clump of cells.
A fly? A simple automaton kind of cell clump.
A fetus? A clump of cells without any cognition.
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>>26292633
>>26292633
noice


123123123
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>>26293573
>They do have human DNA, potentially harm their host in some way and aren't intelligent.
You're the same with society, but you're a person
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>>26293562
>You asserted that a clump of cells isn't a person
I'm not him, but generally a person has to have an active brain to be considered a person. This is why it's not illegal to have a person's family pull the plug on them when they're brain-dead in a hospital
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>>26293562
>You asserted that a clump of cells isn't a person
Wasn't me though. I'm just saying that all 'clumps of cells' aren't the same thing. And in some cases 'clump of cells' actually describes the situation, and in others it's just hysterical word wankery.
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Abortion should only be legal if both parents consent
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>>26293588
Speak for yourself, I'm fairly intelligent and a benefit to society compared with the average person.
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>>26292633
>>26292742
Original comment do not steal t.b.h. family
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>>26293450
>If only the prisoners were at least forced to work for their food or something

My thought's exactly.
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>>26293619
If that were true you wouldn't be arguing with autists on /r9k/ over abortion
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>>26292633
are you murdering children ever time you wank off? think of all those living beings that died
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>>26293634
It's Saturday, I gotta reward myself for wageslaving the entire week.
>inb4 more ad hominem
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>>26293266
>He's not human =/= doesn't have human rights

Nigga please, people don't just turn into birds or something. They're Human. no matter what you call them. Call them monsters, call them ducks, at the end of the day they're still Human. They can't change species with the snap of the fingers.
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>>26293665
>intelligent
>considers going on /r9k/ a reward
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>>26293685
To me he's not human. He's nothing but a cluster of cells that look human. A lot like fetuses that people love aborting.
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>Abortion isn't wrong
>Abortion is wrong if you do it because it's a girl
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>>26293685

How do you feel about old people who are waiting to die but are kept alive by the oath doctors take to attempt to save a life no matter the cost, involving feeding tubes and bedsore ointments and a healthy (but non-lethal) dose of morphine?
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>>26293755

Oh yes, well, you can call a chair a plane and think Mars is made out of ice cream, but it doesn't work like that. You think if you kill him and get caught, then tell the police he's not Human they're not gonna give a single fuck? If that was the case we'd all be Gods.
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>Muh precious life
Pretty sure you care less about the fetus and more about your holier than thou morality complex.
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>>26293799
All I'm saying is that it works the same way as abortion. What you consider human is up to you.
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>>26293793

Personally, I think people put too much stake in feelings. I can feel upset, or good about it, but my feelings won't kill the man or let him do what he wants.

But you know what? If they want to die, they can die for all I care. Though my feelings have no effect on this and unless it's someone I personally know I won't accurately tell you exactly how I feel about the whole thing.
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>>26293837
With that logic you can literally redefine everything since your perception of reality is subjective.
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>>26293837

No, it doesn't. A cat is not Human. Neither is a dog. You can't just consider something to be something else and magically make it so. There are these things called facts, and the truth. The objective and subjective. The former is what it is, and the latter is what you think it is.
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>>26293822
Nice projecting, all that pro-life people do is calling a spade a spade.
Pro-choice people are moral hypocrites.
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>>26293887
>>26293877
Either we consider everything connected to humans "human" and are pro-life or the opposite. Claiming that a fetus isn't human enough but a criminal who murdered many other people is, sounds about ridiculous.
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>>26293132
>By that logic, get rid of condoms and birth control! You stop them from coming together, must be murder!
This is actually the Catholic Church's stance on abortion. In my view though, condoms are fine but abortifacients aren't.
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>>26294071
A criminal has a working mind, a sense of self, memories and may be wrongly accused.
A fetus has nothing like that. No memories, no consciousnes, just a clump of cells which form a blank slate version of a human. It has no emotial connections to anything and no perception of pain. Forcing it to exist is by far more immoral than killing it in a state where it's not even able to care.
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Who the fuck cares about some random zygote that Stacey doesn't want?

Let's say she has a kid with Tyrone and has give birth to it due to the law. Then what? The half nigger grows up with a single mother or in a foster home?

LET THEM ABORT FUTURE CRIMINALS/HOMELESS YOU AUTIST. If I was that kid, I'd want to be aborted too.
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>>26294146
A criminal has consciously rid himself of humanity. A child hasn't even had the chance to prove himself good or bad. And yet, people want to kill the child. The innocent one.
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>>26293152
because they're always right
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>>26294228
You're confusing the issue by calling it a child. It has no brain activity. It's not conscious or a person at the time of abortion (when following laws, not covering very late-term abortions).
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>>26292633
The tippest of toppest of bait OP
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>>26294268
You're confusing the issue by calling the criminal a human. A human being uses his brain and morality and knows to not kill other humans. Brain activity doesn't matter here. Monkeys, tigers, bears also have brain activity. Yet, they're not human.
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>>26294268
>It has no brain activity. It's not conscious or a person

If that were the case, it should be legal to kill women.
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>>26294228
Plants and bacteria are innocent too. I just can't comprehend how you can put a fetus on the same level as a grown person.
If a women wants an abortion, chances are that the child life will turn out bad. Why would you force anyone to live a shitty life? I wish I was never born. Or aborted, it doesn't matter. Non-existence isn't bad. I can't kill myself now because I have people close to me and developed a sense of self-preservation. Abortion would literally have solved all my problems.
>>
Shitty analogy incoming:

Saying a foetus is a child is like saying an unrelated roll of 35mm film is child pornography.

A 35mm film slide of a sunset contains the same chemical components of a 35mm slide of a kid getting raped, but you don't see police trying to arrest amateur photographers for their holiday snaps.
There is a key difference which is hard to explain in law, but relatively simple to understand.

The same applies to the foetus. If you were to remove it early in the pregnancy, it would not be considered alive. It lacks most of the characteristics of a living human. It may be biologically similar, but this doesn't make it a living child. It would lack conciousness, and would not survive independantly.
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>>26294338

Not him, but morality is a construct of society. It's a dog eat dog world out there. Conflict from beginning to end. Monkeys, tigers and bears are just different kinds of animals compared to Humans.

Besides, if a Human kills another Human, should that one not die as well to prevent him from killing more?

Do you kill one to save many more?
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>>26294406
Morality is not a construct of society, it's an instinct that helped humanity make societies. Without a sense of morality complex societies would be impossible. It's an evolutionary trait.
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>>26294345
A regular child isn't the same as a grown person either and yet, we consider it human. An infant is in fact objectively less human than most monkeys.

>Why would you force anyone to live a shitty life?
Well? Why do people who are anti-death penalty force criminals to live shitty lives in the pen? What do you think?

>>26294406
>Not him, but morality is a construct of society.
No, no it's not. You don't need society to tell you to not kill your parents or mass murder people in a cinema.
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>>26294454
>>26294456

Yeah, it's an instinct, but not like you guys are presenting it. You don't go stark raving mad and try to kill everything for the sake of it. If morality tells you that killing is wrong, or whatever, but your life is in danger and the only way out is killing, what do you do?
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>>26293132
This is a moronic argument.

Sperm does not have the capacity to grow into a human, notre does an ovum. They are gametes. They do not have human DNA. Only when fertilisation has occured, can the zygote be considered human as it now has a full set of human chromosomes.

Learn to biology.
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>>26294456
Yes, because a child has perception and memories.
I agree, a monkey and other intelligent and social creatures should have equal legal protection. I don't care how cruelly a fish or a fly is killed, but apes and dolphins should be somewhat protected from cruel fates.

>Well? Why do people who are anti-death penalty force criminals to live shitty lives in the pen? What do you think?
What are you trying to say? That you agree with the broken jurisdiction? That you want them to live a shitty live because it fits in your defintion of right?
>>
>>26294456
>An infant is in fact subjectively less human than most monkeys.

Fixed
>>
When is a foetus considered a seperate entity from its mother?
>>
>>26294619
The legal definitions vary, but usually when it begins to move independently and respond to pain, about the 20th week. Before then, chance of survival outside the womb is zero.
>>
>>26295480
Sounds like a reasonable cutoff for abortion then.
>>
Abortion is wrong because sex is so trivial these days. Sex should be the final step between couples when they have known each other and they are ready to bond physically. Because sex is normalized and marriage is bad, this is what you get. Women advocating third trimester abortion. No joke I heard some cunt say that she wanted to abort kids whenever because they were "parasitic" and that "grossed her out lawl". These people are degenerate and they should be gassed to get rid of this sick train of thought. They are surprised when they have sex and they get pregnant. What the fuck did you expect? Why would a normal couple abort a child? Said normal couple must first have a serious discussion about the responsibilities of having a child/having sex and the commitments they are going to make. Unless the child is disabled, or it is from rape, abortion is wrong.
>>
>>26294340
keke my nig
>>
>>26292633
The better question is; Why is murder illegal at all?
>>
>>26292633
Because putting an individual out of their misery before they have a past to cling to and miss can only be a good thing.
>>
>>26296296
Fuck off schopenhauer
>>
>>26296366
I literally do not know who this guy is or what he's all about but I guess I'll take a lookie wookie
>>
>>26296390
Oooh I like this guy
>>
99% of abortions occur before the brain develops enough to even theoretically be capable of consciousness. Of the remaining 1%, almost all are due to medical necessity.
>>
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>tfw schizophrenic
>tfw live across from an abandoned abortion clinic
>tfw can talk to the "ghosts" of aborted fetuses, as what they would have become if they had been allowed to live

I don't know what to believe anymore.
>>
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>>26292633
>Why is abortion legal?

Mostly because political elites decided by inviolable imperial decree that it was a human rights issue, and that a people has no right to decide for itself that it wants to care for it's most defenseless members. It's the ultimate symptom of the collapse of society. People become so atomized that the continuation of the human race becomes a personal choice based on convenience and personal whim.
>>
>>26297731
>the continuation of the human race
the human race is doing fine, anon
we're putting up record numbers really
>>
>>26293027
Whenever I see things like this, it reminds me there is no hope in this universe.
>>
>>26292633
I hate children so much that I'd be okay with actual child murder.
>inb4 edgy
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