>>26118697 Damn.I hate trips like that now, after accidently dosing myself too strongly twice with ~600ug each time. A 200ug trip is incredibly lackluster now. It was comfy, but that's it. I won't even bother unless I know it's the real deal now and I'm completely alone just to stair at blue planet and listen to music, because you have the damn concentration of a 3 year old when u go that far out
>>26119003 >consiering a drugged trip a great experience
Of drawing a great picture, of getting a girl smile at you, of composing your first song, of moving out, of coming with a creative hack, you chose to partly define yourself through a trip. A fucking chemical delusion-inducing brain damage. That's below sad.
>>26119123 Yes. Something you *experienced*. Something *external*. An *achievement*, or something *learnable*. Not getting your poor brain to babble incoherently at itself how wonderful and meaningful and blah blah fucking blah everything is.
>>26119196 It's just sad to see people speak less approvingly of true experiences because of the chemical irresistibility of a crude ersatz. It's like seeing people speak more favourably of modern conceptual 'black square on a white square' 'art' which they've come to understand at the expense of interest in the brand of art which takes competence.
>>26119408 >>26119353 I mean, I'm literally laughing at your deluded self-importance. You didn't learn shit about yourself, that stuff resides in anatomy textbooks. You just came to spout religious shit you've come to believe about the importance of understanding of shutthefuckup.
jesus christ what the fuck are you babbling on about now?
You don't have to learn anything to have a damn experience you faggot. have you ever taken any drugs? let alone acid. No. So just fucking leave. You have no concept, no fucking clue what you are talking about
Another 'u cant judge before u try'! :3 I almost feel like a father watching its child commit its first fallacy.
>jesus christ what the fuck are you babbling on about now?
I'm talking about your mental diarrhoea of 'I understood that everything can be wrong', 'I understand that there are kinds of thinking sober minds can't understand', and so on. All 100% delusional trash which has no content, but to which druggies hold so dearly and which they so cherish.
>>26119536 >I learned to not take everything for granted
I'm literally laughing at loud thinking just how disabled one has to be to consider such a perfectly vacuous platitude meaningful in any way whatsoever. It translates to no thing. It didn't equip you to spot fallacies better. It didn't equip you to rather speak of matter, of facts, rather than religious crap. It didn't equip you to relate your behaviour to your brain. It didn't equip you to parse words better. It didn't make you more observant of relationships between parts of environment, either natural (ecosystemic) or manmade (because those sit in textbooks, e.g. engineering).
>>26119549 the coolest thing is, you're posting on a cambodian turkey harvesting forum, in a thread about something you don't approve of, arguing with anonymous strangers over the internet. Sounds a lot more constructive than people trying and experiencing things they want to.
>>26119549 holy fucking shit you are literally retarded. I thought you were trolling but now I know for sure you're an autistic neckbeard
> 'I understood that everything can be wrong', 'I understand that there are kinds of thinking sober minds can't understand' When did i ever claim those things or mention ego or anything like that at all?
>'druggies' thats incredibly assuming saying that all people who take drugs think alike
All I am saying is you have no idea what YOU are talking about
When will you understand that English shares the singular and the plural second person pronoun?
>thats incredibly assuming saying that all people who take drugs think alike
'there are exciptions!'
>>26119674 >how could it have been "enjoyable" or "meaningful"?
'Meaningful' = employable to operate on, nagivate, predict, manipulate, the world better, e.g. to harvest materials, or self-sustain, or communicate things to each other. Science (physics to geology to oncology to I don't know, even psychology when it's not religious shit but statistical), language (syntactic trees or something, artificial intelligence), math, etc. 'Psychedelic' tripe just leaves you with I UNDERSTOOD SOMETHING I'M NOT SURE WHAT BUT I DID.
Doesn't matter if the thing they're going to be ultimately used for always in practice turn out to be religious excrement about the nature of reality and empathizing with others, 'u shuld always respect another persons opinion'.
>>26119886 'Responsible psychonauts with a deeper understanding of personal relationships and the nature of the mind', just there. Your mindbending lifechanging drug didn't even cause you to avoid irony. You're all so full of shit.
>>26119941 I am aware. I am aware of the bogeyman of a BAD TRIP which is used to manipulate people into taking drugs in a 'comforting and natural environment' so to maximize the effect of rendering you empathetic.
>>26119792 >'Meaningful' = employable to operate on, nagivate, predict, manipulate, the world better, e.g. to harvest materials, or self-sustain, or communicate things to each other. Oh, so your definition is wrong. By "meaningful", you think they meant "useful", when they meant "personally significant". A confusion on your part.
Consider the flashbulb memory. People tend to take in needlessly vivid recollections of their surroundings when they are told important news. News that has meaning to them. How many people do you know that could tell you what the color of the walls were in the room where they learned the pythagorean theorem?
>>26120112 that sounds like an enjoyable experience anon.
A very nice experience in my life is when I took molly with a girl, we walked around the snow covered fields talking, then we went home got comfy, and fucked each others brains out. One of my best experiences while high.
>>26119970 >Huxley wrote that the sober mind has a series of filters on it that basically prevent abstract thought (evolution put them there for the sake of survival, since having daydreams about the nature of the universe while driving can cause you to plow into a semi). But Huxley and Crick thought drugs like mescaline and LSD could temporarily remove those filters.
>>26119968 >>26120075 You seem to be under the common misconception that a question mark makes a question. It doesn't ('Can you be more stupid?'/'Tell me what it is.'); yours isn't one, but an affective statement to ridicule me in others' eyes. I only answer questions.
>>26120195 >the sober mind has a series of filters on it that basically prevent abstract thought
Abstract THOUGHT is meaningful abstraction. For instance, of crystallic structures to graphs, or of, again, language to trees, or of functions of physical phenomena to algebraic terms or something. Not, for the nth, runny crap about 'the nature of the universe', which phrase should *long* ago have become a universal laughing stock.
There is no such thing. That's the very problem. That 'psychedelic' trips get people to come up with this retarded phrase. 'I, uh, felt very funny, and I don't know what this is about, it taught me nothing about reality, it didn't teach me anything about myself, but it taught me, taught me, SOMETHING! So I'm gonna call it "personal significance".' Significance either pertains to external application (does a piece of knowledge allows be to build something?) or doesn't exist.
>>26120375 Taking LSD made me realize that I didn't actually have a crush on a girl and I was able to get over her. It didn't teach me some profound new thing about all interpersonal relationships. I just found that I was able to think about the situation with "fresh eyes" and certain truths became very obvious. That's what people typically mean by "personally significant".
Of course, you probably have no areas of your life that could benefit from such thinking, because you are le perfect science logic autist.
>>26120352 Another druggie who's never heard of grammatical number. I'm not referring to you personally. Such claims betray that you're a newfaggot, too, thinking imageboards are about accurate attribution of points to individual posters (while in reality we're all Anon), and that you should GTFO swiftly.
>>26120317 >>26120363 Even a couple of months ago, enlightened druggies used to be mildly above the level of bare insults. Again, /r9k/ changes rapidly.
>>26120438 >Taking LSD made me realize that I didn't actually have a crush on a girl and I was able to get over her.
Same druggie fallacies, same druggie misuse of terms.
There is no such thing as 'I realized that I shouldn't'. This is just changed priorities, tard. When I come to say 'I realized I like the colour blue' (let ME use a fucking colour metaphor for once), it is not an understanding, it is just a change in preference -- I liked red, now I like blue. The drug just preset you to tell your crush that you're not interested. No understanding there, you just became more passive.
>>26120453 You gotta understand that these strawman "DUDE I MET GOD ON LSD!" druggies that you think you're arguing with have made literally 0 posts in this thread. Everyone was just having a pleasant time talking about what they enjoyed doing on psychedelics before you started with all that shit.
>>26120517 >There is no such thing as 'I realized that I shouldn't'
So you've never made a mistake or come to regret a previous decision or line of thinking? Never?
You've never... learned anything? You've never acquired new knowledge about something and changed your opinion about it? When you learned that 3 x 3 = 9 did you just "change your preference"?
Basically before I was obsessed with starting a relationship with this girl, and it was driving me crazy. But when I thought about it on LSD, I realized that I really didn't like her any more than my other friends, I just liked that she had big tits. It suddenly became so obvious.
>>26120463 I'm not saying that, because 'personal significance' is not a thing. It is too vague. It is the kind of shit 'psychedelics' get you to ramble about. It can encompass things as varied as having a favourite object and having made someone learn something. It's 'knowledge is relative'-tier. It holds no candle to science (and show me a druggie who doesn't say 'science is relative'; the rabidity with which they say this is really surprising).
>>26120517 >There is no such thing as 'I realized that I shouldn't'. What you just said makes no fucking sense. You deserve all the ad-hom because you're not even making arguments, you're just stringing words together and presenting them as fact.
>>26120617 >and show me a druggie who doesn't say 'science is relative'
Literally anyone in this thread. Again, you're arguing with some guy you probably met in high school and not people who are actually talking to.
Do you have problems with people having favorite objects? Sentimentality? Pleasant memories? Personal connections? Nostalgia? Are you denying that all of these exist? Most normal people experience all of these, completely sober, and enjoy them.
>>26120617 >>26120615 In short, drug 'trips' make you glue together platitudes that carry no weight, cannot be falsified, and having which makes you better at nothing. Note: I'm not saying (how retarded do you have to be for me to even have to clarify that) that 'psychedelics' don't change you as a person. Of course they do; their empathetic and aesthetic impairment is lamentable. But they teach you nothing. Please distinguish between a drug TEACHING you something and a drug EFFECTING a life change which might entail learning something. Literally anything does the latter; only textbooks do the former.
>>26120600 >So you've never made a mistake or come to regret a previous decision or line of thinking? Never?
Of course I did, and of course those weren't realizations. A realization is, for instance, that (1) in nature there is no suction, or that (2) in nature there is no coolness, or (3) in vacuum there is no temperature, and so on. Objective. Again, your 'I realized I prefer A over B' is just a drug altering your priorities. Subjective.
>>26120617 So you're saying personal significance doesn't exist at all? I'm lost here. If somebody takes acid, and has a good experience, then I would assume that experience had some personal significance to them right? Aren't you pretty much telling people what should and shouldn't be significant to them at this point and then claiming that the concept of personal significance doesn't exist?
The bottom line is, people will always do whatever they want. It may not be the most logical decision, or they may regret the outcome later down the line, but they always do what they want. Lsd is already illegal, so I don't even know what you're suggesting.
>>26120617 >'personal significance' is not a thing. It is too vague. Are you honestly, actually autistic? I don't mean that as an insult, if you cannot empathize with people but instead try to see them as a collection of objective facts you legitimately have autism.
>>26119549 Oohh I get it now. I know your type, you're this weird mixture of a hipster and a straight edge or some shit. "drugs are bayyd m'kay, and I'm gonna make everyone know it trying to be cynical about it"
Seriously, why the fuck you faggots keep coming here??
>>26120765 >stating "my viewpoint is real" is a point And no, I'm not trying to imply "MUUUUH SUBJECTIVITY" or whatever, you literally didn't make a point at all, you just said things. I would call that conjecture.
>>26120685 >Do you have problems with people having favorite objects? Sentimentality? Pleasant memories? Personal connections? Nostalgia? Are you denying that all of these exist?
None of those are 'significance'. Significance means, well, meaning. 'There is a cat on the mat' is a statement and as such has significance. There being a cat on the mat is not a statement and has no significance. That your drug led you to drop some chick doesn't mean it meant anything any more than a punch to your face meant anything.
Either way, the woodwork our /r9k/ board consists of seems particularly druggie infested, them crawling out more voluminously than ever. I'm going to be out.
>>26120685 >>26120716 Do the reading you're accusing me of not having done. Read some trip stories. Read the 'conclusions' people make. >inb4 no true druggie, fuck.
>>26120743 I'm not autistic and I am much more empathetic than the average person.
>>26120900 >None of those are 'significance'. adjective adjective: significant
1. sufficiently great or important to be worthy of attention; noteworthy. "a significant increase in sales" synonyms: notable, noteworthy, worthy of attention, remarkable, important, of importance, of consequence, signal
>>26120934 I know (and 've taken) this test and I don't need tests to tell my susceptibility to absorb emotions via witnessing facial expressions and tone of voice, absorb terms' connotations of (dis)approval, my focus on the so-called body language, and so on.
>>26120900 Okay, but why would you wage war on erowid losers in this thread? Why would you spend all these posts belaboring the strict definitions of words like "significance" when it's apparent that the modifier "personal" changes it? What part of that sounds empathetic and/or not autistic?
>>26120900 >Do the reading you're accusing me of not having done. Read some trip stories. Read the 'conclusions' people make. >inb4 no true druggie, fuck. >implying anyone agrees with what some faggot wrote in a damn trip report you read once while he was high on research chemicals
>I'm not autistic and I am much more empathetic than the average person. no.
>>26121017 Why should I remember scores on some test that only serves for self-diagnoses?
http://fysh.org/~zefram/allism/allism_intro.txt is all the reading I know. I fit all the points: I'm religious, empathetic, preoccupied with faces, etc.
Either way, the posts are coming too fast for me to reply. /r9k/ is probably lost to normalfaggotry. The resident druggies are just too fiercely protective of their 'personal significance' of their tripe trips.
>>26120990 Well, lone druggie post that's not directly insultive and as such deserves a reply:
The answer is:
significance : the so-called 'personal significance' :: intelligence : the so-called 'multiple intelligences' or 'emotional intelligence'
When you start qualifying things like that, to refer to non-objective statements or ideological constructs concocted for political reasons, you water down the root term, poisoning them with connotations of your qualifiers. People begin to say 'yeah yeah, science might mean something, but it's not everything because there's personal significance as well'. It's a political scheme designed to associate a positive, objective term ('meaning', 'intelligence') with submeanings such as '...but it can be subjective, too!' or '...but it can be emotional, too!'.
Now I'm out. The replies are coming too fast really.
>>26121139 I am religious in the sense that I am nearly irresistibly drawn to religious language; it's an innate trait. I just reject it; the term 'God' is meaningless and I am ignostic. But I am religious at the same time. Religiosity tells about my brain, what I am genetically wired to believe and speak of; ignosticism tells about my actually held (lack of) beliefs.
>>26121221 If you honestly think that sort of thinking is damaging the public's image of science, don't you also see the harm in promoting a "NO FUN ALLOWED, SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCES ARE WORTHLESS" attitude as a "scientific" one? That seems like just as dangerous an attitude, as no one will like you or want to share any opinions with you.
Many notable scientists have experimented with psychedelic drugs. None of them, of course, are claiming that they found gigantic universal truths that they couldn't have otherwise, but the ability of psychedelics to give you new perspectives on familiar thoughts has been widely noted. The double helix model of DNA was proposed by Crick while on LSD. Why not take the reasonable view of scientific leaders instead of dogmatically taking the opposite stance of extremists?
>>26121254 I actually find this very interesting. I was rude to you earlier in the thread, and I still don't think the way you behaved in this thread is at all justifiable or sensible, but I think your perspective here is fascinating. It reminds me of the narrator's description of himself in David Foster Wallace's "All That", which is my favorite short story.
Can you explain more specifically what you mean by "religious language"?
...Talking at druggies, it's pointless. It's, again to borrow the metaphor from that one wise anon, trying to sculpt a discussion from runny shit.
Worth is a pretty well-defined concept that has to do with decision-making: when one considers a future or past outcome as desirable, leading one to opt for one eventuality over another. A druggie sure can consider a trip, either past or future, worthwhile; but they are not meaningful because they teach nothing and at best (& rarest) just affect your life priorities, 'I "realized" I should be nicer to people'.
>no one will like you or want to share any opinions with you
>the ability of psychedelics to give you new perspectives on familiar thoughts has been widely noted
That's true. It has been very widely noted indeed. The problem is that it does not exist. Again, the 'new perspectives' are either unfalsifiable cliches that bestow no employable insights, altered preferences, or certain other delusions such as delusion of free will.
>>26121358 You're just a druggie, like hundreds of millions before you and billions after you.
>>26121413 >Can you explain more specifically what you mean by "religious language"?
Read any story on the aforementioned Erowid, or any Buddhist text (fun fact: Buddhist garbage is much more incomprehensible than the Bible; the Bible is pretty much a narrative, while Buddhist trash is just pure schizophrenia). 'The mind informs the products of its perception of...' kind of shit.
>>26121336 >>26121610 Oh, and as for that Crick druggie posterboy (makes me think... would that make Sagan, whom I know nothing about but who I believe spoke favourably of cannabis, be a druggie po(s)t(er)boy?)... I am more and more convinced that it was more like that prank Feynman pulled with that IQ test of his, flunking it intentionally, and which people are still falling for today.
>>26121610 >Again, the 'new perspectives' are either unfalsifiable cliches that bestow no employable insights, altered preferences, or certain other delusions such as delusion of free will.
Oh yeah, like the double helix structure of DNA. Or even "I don't like that girl all that much".
Why are you incapable of even considering the idea that there's a middle ground between "LSD teaches you the secrets of the universe" and "LSD makes you believe nonsense"? Why can't it be like the experience of travelling, reading a book, eating a new food, or literally everything else? Why can't it just capable of making you realize true things, but not inherently containing those truths, and allow you to change your preferences or opinions? What's wrong with that?
Literally a random string of words which has been used for generations to bestow the seal of approval of 'enlightenment' as soon as a Buddhist 'student' complies with the 'master' with respect to interpretation of that piece of bullshit.
>>26121746 Feynman would eat ketamine and hang out in sensory deprivation tanks so go take that L quietly.
Just because you're autistic about drugs doesn't mean there's a multi-decade international conspiracy to try to convince you otherwise. Most stuff wasn't discovered on psychedelics but a few things were, because it's a fun experience that makes you think about stuff in ways you might not otherwise. Why is that so hard to deal with?
Easy: the pareidolic religiosity (seeing sense in bullcrap like >>26121845), the empathy (focusing on the foregroud of the facial expressions as opposed to material patterns such as, to use this lone example, the pattern of the person twisting their fingers or altering their gait), the degenerated artistic ability (coming to prefer droning music etc.), coming to prefer discussion of meaningless abstractions rather than physics and biology, etc.
And I'm going to go out on a limb here now: I'm not going to >inb4 NADALT (not all druggies are like that).
>>26122257 The first and last song on FtM are masterpieces, actually, and I have a soft spot for two songs for the third album too already.
But still, whether 'psychedelics' help compose (which I doubt -- it's easy to misattribute), but whether they degenerate taste, which they do. People talk how they've come to enjoy repetitive, lazy electronic pieces owing to them.
>>26122310 There are degrees of druggie lack of reading comprehension and erroneous assumption, and this post is nadiral.
>>26122579 You really need to explore more of the world. The attitude you have towards drugs could easily apply to most experiences and it shows. I'm gonna go to bed now. It's been good talking to you. You are a very strange person and I disagree with you about almost everything, but this sort of adversity is what makes 4chan great. So I'm still happy that you came into this thread, I guess. And you have good taste in music.
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