Define "murder" and define "bad". This will make discussion simpler and more concise.
If you insult me instead of answering the question, then that just proves you hate critical thinking and you're not "rational" at all because you can't imagine that anyone else could have a different thought process than you or that anyone else would want the terms tightly defined to facilitate making an argument.
Sorry for going off. I spend a lot of time arguing on the Internet and I'm sick of people not wanting to define their terms and being vague on purpose.
So, yeah. Define A (murder) and C (bad) and I'll try to find the middle to copulate them.
>>25946507 Understandable request. Murder: ending a human's life without their consent. Bad: unfavorable interest of the speaker, that has a displeasing emotive request that fits the words for its use in suggestion. (thanks steveson)
By using an MRI scan you can see the brain is effected by certain stimuli. You can empirically say, without having to use emotion, that "this thing" causes a certain emotion in people when they are exposed to it.
A man collects 10 kids every weekend and has them fight to the death. He is smart enough to have evaded police and parents for years. You talk to him and he says that he will stop doing it if you convince him that it iswrong. He does it for pleasure, and doesn't care about the kids or any consequences, because he can dodge them (let's just say). What do you say?
How about I convince him with a fucking hammer before freeing the kids? Why would I need to use words? You think they would even throw me in jail after I killed him? No. I'd probably get a fucking medal.
>>25947655 Probably because your point has been raised more than once already, you clown.
The argument that you shouldn't do to others what you don't want done to you is a perfectly good one. Most of the world seems to understand this. Well, in the first world, at least. In the more shitty parts of the world, people will kill each other for very little.
>>25947219 A way may be to convince him that he is insane; that what he thinks he wants is unreliable, perhaps by juxtaposing his moral reality with that of (most of) all other humans, pointing out inconsistencies in his reasoning etc.
If you convince him of this then whether it is right or wrong to murder is immediately irrelevant to him because he is in defect of the mental faculties required to see right from wrong even if it where right in front of him.
In this way you convince him not that murder is necessarily wrong but that murder is not necessarily right either; and consequentially he would stop killing.
>>25947788 >muh passive aggressive hypocritical greentext post
You're the only with the low IQ here, buddy. Well, along with OP.
>>25947841 Animals kill each other to stay alive, you fucking moron. Humans kill animals for the same reason. They also kill for other reasons (for their pelts, and whatnot) but that's also seen as bad by a lot of people.
>>25946605 >unfavorable interest of the speaker well there you go most speakers are interested in not getting murdered, so if the society around them has a propensity for murder, encouraging that to be generally reduced would reduce the chances of the speaker getting murdered, and is thus in their interest
If we use bad to mean objectively wrong then it is because it is necessary to respect liberty, for man is to be free. Murder is only justified when the deprivation of liberty of life for the murdered is greater than the deprivation of liberty that the murdered person would put on the murderer.
>>25946446 For what it's worth I've been to Irag for two tours and technically murdered people. It really can make you question your own humanity. Be that appealing to emotion or not, I don't know or care.
>>25948223 >feeling bad because you killed a bunch of sandniggers
Why are soldiers such fucking wusses? This isn't the first guy to cry about shit like this, not even the first on r9k. Unless you killed unarmed civilians then why would you feel bad? If a toddler was aiming a gun at you then you fucking gun that fucker down and sleep soundly.
>>25948341 No, it's not sadistic. You just aren't looking at it in the right way. You were keeping yourself alive. You were keeping the people with you alive. When somebody is trying to kill you, they are no longer a person; They're just something to remove so you can continue living.
>>25948382 Well, considering that people aren't even allowed to have guns in my country and I'm not a soldier. I don't know if I'll ever "kill a nigger". I really doubt that I'd feel bad about it, though. I'm not some fucking tree hugging hippy save the world every race is the human race fuck like most people off the internet seem to be.
>>25948418 actually, the internet itself is pretty horrible now
>>25948661 >How stupid do you even to be to ask that question.
Depends, how stupid do you think it makes someone who disagrees with you? Not wanting to be murdered doesn't make murder wrong, it just makes you uncomfortable with the possibility that someone you love could be murdered. By that logic anything that I don't particularly care for and would not want others I care for to experience is 'wrong'.
Your first mistake is falling for the illusion that there actually exist objective "good" and "evil" outside of the realm of human perception. Often, it's actually this idea of separation that leads to humans wanting to murder each other anyways. Usually humans justify it in our own minds by claiming the other person is "evil" or they're simply less worthy to survive based on their own subjective judgement of that character's actions.
Furthermore, it's important to understand what's rational isn't always the most beneficial pathway to follow. Following absolutely rational paths can actually lead to a misunderstanding of our universe. For instance, it's "rational" to believe that everything is predetermined. after all we can rationally examine how dominos work and assume that is how the universe works as well. But if we were to follow that path, we would be completely ignorant of quantum mechanics as it works in a way that the human mind simply can not conceive sine we do not observe it on our day to day lives.
Regardless, you said you wanted a rational reason not to kill others? Conforming to your standards of what rational is I would point out that all organisms have a tendency to want to survive, and even species will natural do want is best for the whole race's survival. I could also point out to you that nearly all organism are hostile to those of their own species that kill of others. Evolution definitely favors life, and even though we don't know why, maybe that mystery can be enough for you to respect it too.
>>25948724 >Depends, how stupid do you think it makes someone who disagrees with you? Someone who disagrees that murder is wrong? Very stupid.
>Not wanting to be murdered doesn't make murder wrong Uh... it kind of does.
>By that logic anything that I don't particularly care for and would not want others I care for to experience is 'wrong'. Yes, it would be wrong, in your opinion. Just like how murder is wrong in my opinion.
>Fuck you retard Are you talking to me or yourself?
>>25948901 Wow. That was a very good post. It was not pointless at all.
As many have said in this thread: Right and wrong is subjective. My opinion is that murder is wrong, also that you're an idiot. You can disagree but you'll have a hard time disproving either of these points.
>>25946446 Humankind and most of the animal kingdom have survived this long partially due to the fact that it is social convention to not kill each other. We put ourselves and our loved ones if you have any, at risk, the moment you lower the sanctity of life to the point where killing someone for little reason is acceptable.
Human civilization as a whole therefore generally agrees to not kill each other.
To answer your question, no it is not 'bad', it's all relative in the end- but it does contravene a very very old social convention.
>>25949072 If you weren't so fucking stupid, you would know that everything anyone posts is OF THEIR OPINION unless they state that it's a fact. You can't say that I spoke "as if it was purely fact". That doesn't even make sense.
Holy shit... This is why I try not to discuss anything with the people here because it's so goddamn pointless for both parties.
>>25949140 This analogy is so bad that I need time to think about how to best call you an idiot.
Okay. So, I think murder is wrong because I would not like to be murdered. To bring in your example: If you don't like sriracha then don't force feed it to others and they won't make you eat it, I guess. Your post was stupid and you should feel stupid.
>>25948492 I am no tree hugging hippie by any means. It is simply the fact that you are taking the life of something that has ambitions. They may conflict, but I came out victorious. I certainly didn't want him killing me, but here's the kicker. I somewhat enjoyed taking his life. It was something that made he feel powerful, that I had control of something for once in my life. See what I mean?
>>25949306 Yet sociopathy is a thing as opposed to neurotical people. So there a duality there, between murderers and non murderers, those who have empathy and those who don't. Those with morals and those without. Which would you prefer to live with?
What the fuck does this even mean? There is no "universal concept of right and wrong". Everyone has a different opinion of right and wrong. You aren't born thinking something is good or bad. You decide how you feel about things based on your life experiences. It's why people still murder each other despite most people thinking it's "wrong".
>>25949344 I still don't think you're a sadist or abnormal. You should feel good when you kill an enemy. He would felt pretty fucking good if he killed you and got away. The only time you should feel bad is when you kill something that doesn't deserve it. Now, what does deserve mean? That's entirely on you. If you ask me, anybody who shot at you deserved to die.
>>25949542 When I think of murder, I see it as killing somebody who wasn't trying to kill me. If they were trying to kill me, it would be self defense and that is the complete opposite of bad.
>is there nobody in the world you'd really rather see dead?
I can't really think of a person right now but even if I wanted somebody dead, I wouldn't kill them unless I had an extremely good reason. For example, maybe somebody kills the person I love. That would be a good reason to murder someone. Revenge for a murder.
Another good reason why murder is bad. It'll just cause more murder.
I'm sure everyone will call me a retard and attack me etc. but yes. That is what I want. I would enjoy such a situation, even at great risk to my own life and even if it's fucking stupid and illogical blah blah blah.
There are probably reasons I could come up with but you'd just ignore them, deny them disprove them whatever.
I want to be able to kill because deep down that is what feels natural and pure to me, and I would accept the risk of living in such a world joyfully and without a second thought. That's the truth. Now call me edgy and fuck off. I'm finished with this thread.
>>25949862 Well... you could always move to a country where people kill each other en masse. Like Africa, for example. Do some research and figure out where the worst parts of Africa are and then go kill some niggers. I don't know how many you'd get before they chopped you up but it's apparently what you want.
I'm not going to call you edgy because I'm not a fucking normie. I do think you're a wuss, though. People who talk about wanting to kill others are like people who talk about suicide. It's just attention seeking behaviour.
even if there is no law and no designated party to enforce it, murder still results in others seeking retribution. so you would still have to deal with the family and friends of the person you murdered coming after you.
>>25946446 Nigger listen, what if that person you murdered in the future would have hlped you or given you money or some shit in the future. If you kill them, how can they give you shit or whatever. You just reduce your chances of getting shit for free etc
the point is there isn't necessarily a difference between designated law enforcement hunting you down or the victim's acquaintences. with law enforcement, in fact, you're in better shape as you may not be killed when caught.
I mean in the sense that murder rarely happens in a vacuum where there isn't someone still alive and mighty pissed off about it. so, whether there is law or not, you still will face fallout and consequences. murder can never be a-okay in society for this reason.
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