Why do we, as westerners, put up with endemic criminality in our cities?
I've just got back from Hong Kong. Let me tell you something. There is virtually none of the sort of violent criminality there, or in Tokyo, or in Taipei that you encounter in the West.
No roving gangs of niggers or pakis looking for a fight. You can rent an apartment in the shittiest areas of town and rest assured that not a single one of the working class inhabitants will cause you any problems. Even in public housing largely inhabited by Filipinos, there's no gangs, no graffiti etc.
Not only is this good in terms of the fact you don't have to deal with as much crime, it also means there aren't large areas of the city that are essentially closed off to civilized inhabitants, which reduces the cost of rent tremendously.
So why do we tolerate it?
Why do we perceive it as normal?
Why do we put up with shitskins destroying our cities?
I've never seen a dirty MTR station in Hong Kong.
Likewise in Singapore.
People who do grafitti and vandalism shouldn't be sent to jail, I agree that makes them worse, but they SHOULD be beaten with a cane.
It's because there are cameras fucking everywhere. Taipei especially. Crime there tends to be white collar fraud, or bribery.
As for "shit skins" as you call them. They're the least of your worries. Singapore is wonderful like that. Taipei has yankee wannabes that hang out and act like assholes and that's as close to "gangs" as you get because they're 90% bored kids
>It's because there are cameras fucking everywhere.
No it isn't. London has one of the highest rates of per capita CCTV cameras and our crime rate is much higher than those of East Asian cities.
>As for "shit skins" as you call them. They're the least of your worries.
On the contrary.
>Taipei has yankee wannabes that hang out and act like assholes and that's as close to "gangs" as you get because they're 90% bored kids
Taipei is one of the safest cities on earth, you can live anywhere you want pretty much be assured of your own personal safety and the safety of your property at all times.
Go be a leftist somewhere else.
go be /pol/ somewhere else
(like /pol/ for example)
Also i thought i clarified that yankee types are just bored kids and not actually in anyway threatening.
:3 also i had no idea i was leftie since i voted kmt
what you mean to say is everyone wants to gtfo of taiwan. no one would intentionally migrate here. people even go to PRC for work because the hours are less.
Worked in singapore and malaysia. both have brown people. Singapore they're just like everywhere else. malaysia has done a good job of putting ethnic malays on par with financially backed chinese. indians are still treated like shit though. no stand out race there as far as crime goes desu. but im sure you'll find something to disagree with because that's what being a contentious little beta is all about.
Dude, I know your naturalization laws, they're much stricter than we have here in the west. Generally the west is simply a lot more permissive.
Singapore has brown Malays, but they are kept in check by very strict laws. Plus they do not offer settlement for all immigrants, just highly skilled ones. Laborers are brought in, kept in temporary work camps and then sent back home. Instant deportation for even minor offenses too.
PRC is basically impossible to get citizenship for, even marrying into a Chinese family only grants you a 1 year extension to your L visa, and obviously none of your countries have retarded stuff like family reunification laws.
The predominantly white cities and towns of Europe are generally very nice, crime-free places: Swiss cities, Vienna, Northern Italian cities, Munich (though not for much longer unfortunately). Black and brown people are just shit-tier.
>trust be brah i know your laws better than you.
K'den... even if that was the case that's not what i am on about. no one wants to move to Taiwan. Our economy is not doing so well. no one WANTS to come to Taiwan.
Singapore has brown Malays that are just like everyone else in Singapore. Overworked and pretentious. Malays in Malaysia are given certain advantages (like 60% placements at universities for 60% of the populations), to keep them on the same level as Chinese who have offshore financial backing for generations... thats a long story. But they have no reason to commit crime any more than anyone else. Also Malaysia does not offer settlement to anyone who isn't Malay. Full stop.
PRC and ROC issue is complex. On one hand they won't recognize our passports etc. on the otherhand they overlook that shit and let us in anyway.
I do know your own laws, I know you have no equivalent to our permissive family reunification l laws that allow for endless chain migration, I know your naturalization period is longer and up to the discretion of the bureaucracy, I know your asylum acceptance rate is much, much lower than ours, I know you have nothing as ridiculous as ius soli.
that's not the fucking point you mong. holy shit, can you even read?
honestly i give up. You know Taiwanese law? yes or no. it doesn't change what I'm saying.
shit no wonder this board is said to be full of friendless losers. im going back to /tg/ where the people are somehow more socially adjusted.
its fine buddy. you won. you won an argument that existed totally in your own head but its fine because you're still the winner right. ;^) enjoy the spoils of victory
Poland has a slightly higher murder rate than the UK, but murder rates can be deflated by better health systems, given an improper impression of how dangerous a place is. See:
In other words, assault is less lethal in countries that are more developed.
I've felt safer in Warsaw than in bad areas of London and certainly much, much safer than in Paris (where the police genuinely have no go areas in the suburbs), for what its worth.
It's because of their immigration laws and their prison system. They want their prison system to basically be hell. Solitary confinement and you die by the noose. They don/t tell you when you are going to die so you're alone in your cell and every morning you think you are going to die. For any violent crime you basically get a life sentence.
In the US at least there is a lot of gang culture which a lot of blacks from the UK want to emulate.
Poland is fine, did you read my explanation?
Paris is awful because France liberalized their immigration laws in the 1970s to allow for chain migration and more refugees, before that point immigrants actually had the same rates of employment and welfare dependency that native French did.
Plenty of refugees want to move to places like Taiwan, but their acceptance rates are demonstrably much, much lower. Likewise with Japan, who had 4000 applications last year but only approved something like 7 of them.
Other countries put their own people first.
>"If nothing bad happened to you, that makes those places safe."
Im not white but i feel so bad for europeans. I visited berlin in december and it was just so grimy and full of retarded immigrants. Just hanging around and being obnoxious. I saw some beautiful old buildings and imagined what the city must have been like during the 4th reich. Was probably really nice. Why mess up nice places with retarded savages who dont want to become civilized?
Both of us are completely powerless. History doesn't respond to the desires of people who post on /r9k/.
Not sure that has to do with liberal immigration policy fucking shit up though.
What race are you?
Berlin is horrible. But Munich is still quite nice.
>Why mess up nice places with retarded savages who dont want to become civilized?
Because center-rightists want to inflate our populations in the vain hope that will help us compete with India and China, while providing corporations with limitless cheap labor and because center-leftists don't see race as a real thing, and think culture is just something analogous to a jacket that tribal savages from North Africa, Pakistan or Afghanistan take off when they reach the UKBA.
In Singapore right now, funny you should mention it.
Yeah, sure. Cane the petty criminals. I'm fine with that. And Singapore is somewhat lacking the criminal element, sure.
However, it's a fucking shithole- just not in the literal sense. Singapore is about as wagecuck (and I'm one- I don't normally consider wagecuckery a thing but in Singapore it really is a thing), general cuck society as it gets. Filled with normalfags, and anyone who isn't wants to get out.
National Service, censorship, dictatorship, the Singaporeans are somehow racist to their own race (Chinese mainlanders) as well as in their own special way to "ang moh" (whites) etc, and ofc Indians and Filipinos etc.
Singapore is genuinely shit. And the weather is absolute hell too. The culture is about as regressive as it gets without being third world.
Hell for NEETs, also hell for anyone who isn't willing to be a wagecuck and bend over to fellate the local govt.
Coming here I realize that the west really had a lot of things right, compared to here at least.
I think that's more a culture clash thing. People who work on secondments in the far east often end up getting sick of the place, just because you're surrounded by alien people and an alien culture.
I think that's detached from the genuinely positive things Singapore offers though and that we could definitely learn from:
- Protective of national industry.
- Sovereign wealth fund that is well managed and operates for the benefit of the people.
- 80% home ownership rates.
- Low criminality.
- Good infrastructure.
As for me, I get sick of the food when I'm in East Asia these days. There's only so much fried shit my body can take.
I'm Murkan, but I can assure you that Taiwan's citizenship laws are more strict than ours. For one thing you don't have birthright citizenship, for another you have to display a working proficiency in Chinese, as another you have to demonstrate you have requisite assets, professional skills and income to be self-sufficient, and that's just from a very cursory glance at your government website.
I guess, I can definitely agree with the points you made.
Agreeing on the fried food, though I've found eating the local food is quite decent, offers variety and absolutely dirt cheap, if a bit of a pain in the ass to order when I only speak English. Probably wouldn't feel safe ordering from vendors of this sort anywhere in Asia other than Singapore, I suppose.
Still planning to leave and never come back though. Singapore's just not for me.
> What race are you
Hispanic. I even felt bad being there because I didn't want anyone to think I was another faggot muslim ruining their country. Idk if they could tell between different shades of not white. I didnt even bother talking to people very much for that reason, I mostly just saw sights and went to museum and drank Berlin almost had a tiny bit of rough charm to it, but it was minimal when you think off how nice it could be. Seeing such a once proud people become total cucks, a once fine city with trash strewn about was very sad.
> center-leftists don't see race as a real thing, and think culture is just something analogous to a jacket that tribal savages from North Africa, Pakistan or Afghanistan take off when they reach the UKBA.
The funny thing about that is these don't even seem to like it when you expect those immigrants to assimilate. They're literally cucks who want to be taken over. They're literally ashamed of all the neat scientific, cultural, and technological advancements performed by native europeans. They literally want their interesting traditions and history to be replaced with goatfucking and beheading
Have yet to though I've been here almost half a year by now- not particularly interested in Malaysia though considering what I've heard of it.
I suppose Singapore's done well for itself considering its surroundings, but the west in general still is much better culturally/socially I'd think, than anything the east can offer. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
>The funny thing about that is these don't even seem to like it when you expect those immigrants to assimilate.
I don't expect them to. Different races are different and tend in different directions. The whole argument about "assimilation" is insulting to both sides because you end up with non-Europeans who cling on to their racial identity (their real identity) in a tribal way while insisting to everyone else that they're "just as German/French/English as anyone else". Identity theft of a sorts, reducing the native population's identity to a passport.
I think part of the problem is a general lethargy among Europeans. We've been taught to think of immigration as natural and unavoidable, so even those opposed to it don't raise their voices too loudly.
Of course it is entirely avoidable. Turning the boats around at the various crossing points and denying any sort of legal status to those who arrive would quickly dry up the net inflows, but our own politicians in this case are motivated by a sort of secularized Christianity ("muh turn the other cheek", "muh universal equality").
Back to your containment board, Fritz. You aren't wanted here. And take your bonehead Stormfag buddies with you.
>You aren't wanted here.
You aren't wanted here you mean. Why don't you take the time to explain to the good people of the robot why accepting millions upon millions of the worst people on earth and giving them permanent settlement status in their country is a good idea, if you consider them so sympathetic to your views?
> Oork! Oork! Oork!
No thanks, Fritz. Take your shitty astroturfing back to /pol/.
Ah, that explains a bit. You're a European.
Yeah, the EU messed up spectacularly. Major immigrant destination centers will probably get worse than the best parts of East Asia eventually, if nothing's done.
That being said any halfway decent city in the west still beats all of East Asia out of the water right now, mainly by differences in culture and governance.
What the fuck can even be done at this point? These people are already in europe. Even if you close the borders theyll still be there and continue to breed like feral beasts. Short of an actual race war I dont see what can be done.
>logic and reason
>letting in millions of people with low levels of intelligence and antideluvian attitudes to women
Lol ok. Amazing you people still have the audacity to raise your voices after cologne.
Pretty much as you said, Europe isn't gonna get out of this mess. And now they're letting "refugees" in almost freely- after a life spent envying Europe I find myself pretty glad I don't live there right now.
Pro tip: None of the people arrested were refugees, and there's no evidence refugees assaulted anyone. But then, you Stormfags were never ones to let things like facts or truth get in the way of disseminating hatespeech hidden behind your keyboards.
how would that work? are you just going to walk around shooting random brown people? how far do you think that will get you? and will you be any better than the people your against?
>None of the people arrested were refugees
>and there's no evidence refugees assaulted anyone.
Right. Over 500 women just happened to make up stories of sexual assault just to defame them.
One wonders if you'd be engaging in these sorts of semantics if a thousand or so white college students happened to congregate on NYE and cohesively start sexually assaulting women.
>using the term "hatespeech" unironically
Don't bother engaging with them, they only do this as a way of feeling morally superior to others. Fighting caricature "gnatzis" is a great method of moral grandstanding as these are people who orientate their entire ethical philosophy around World War 2.
ARA, bonehead. And I've kicked my share of boots-and-bracers boneheads in the teeth over the years. No one gives a fuck what you say hidden in your mom's basement, but try your hatespeech on the street and see what happens.
>but try your hatespeech on the street and see what happens.
Come to Eastern Europe and try it m8.
Germany's had an Islamic problem long before Cologne or the refugee crisis.
Note I'm saying "Islamic" not "Middle-Eastern." Islam is the real problem, and bringing over many immigrants from a region currently suffering from the effects of extreme, fundamentalist Islam with little done to ensure the safety of locals or assimilation or at least to prevent radicals from entering- is what led to Cologne. And Cologne's just the tip of the iceberg of what is happening and what will happen.
lol this is that same fat, 40something faggot who once worked as head of the panhandlers union in Canada. If you see a picture of him, you'll just feel pity, the only reason he comes here is because he fits into the "no woman wants me" attitude of /r9k/.
>Literally spending your entire adult life as an agitator for Jewish Marxism
Because it's irrelevant. What do you want him to give you, a logistical breakdown of how a completely hypothetical breakdown in civil order would work?
Fuck off you useless waste of space. You literal waste of space. You've spent a life doing nothing productive, nothing creative, just agitating and being a fat fuck - living off of the surpluses that modern civilization affords you.
Can't wait for China to take over and deliver that cold hard slap of reality to delusional genetic detritus like you.
I out myself all the time here, weasel. I post my picture, give out my personal info, and stand behind every word I've ever said. Where's *your* picture, you chickenshit little Nazi shitstain? Any time you and your buddies feel your balls are big enough feel free to look me up. Pic related: me, not hiding.
Well that's even worse, it just goes to show no matter how long sandniggers stay in a country they cannot "integrate". Especially in Germany where the very idea of being German is considered to be evil.
>Never done a single bit of productive work in your life
>Never had consensual sex with a girl who wasn't a prostitute
>Tool of the Jews/corporate interests/elites
Eh, I'll reply to this.
Nothing's gonna happen. I'm not a stormfag, I actually am pretty damn liberal and I like immigration and multiculturalism and the whole works.
I'm not exactly optimistic for Europe though. They can't do anything without going against their morals, and I think it's a good thing there's not going to be a race war or anything close- but it's pretty fucked up what is happening all the same.
The floodgates have been opened, no one seems to be capable of even putting some reasonable restraint on entry- and honestly the refugee crisis is just helping bring focus to the trend of allowing immigration from parts of the world that are anything but friendly to western/european culture in the first place.
What can Europe do? Not much, not anymore- and while there are some things they could try to do to at least assimilate and deradicalize those already within their borders and prevent further damage I think it's common knowledge that nothing is going to be done.
Personally I'm pretty proud of my country (Canada) for taking in refugees. Because we did it the right way, and we're capable of taking them in. I'm not against taking in refugees, but anyone who supports how Europe is doing it has totally unrealistic expectations.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across Canada and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
Yes. By your standards everyone from Augustus Caesar to Napoleon was a "racist who wanted to kill innocents". Do you really think you're better than those people just because you've internalized christian slave morality?
For all your assumed worldliness (and those of other useless leftist chucklefucks) I doubt you even speak a single language other than English too.
Yes, you're a cuck who wants to kill innocents.
I think you meant to say handsome as fuck, and able to rock a fedora in a totally unironic way. And I repeat, where's *your* photo, you knock-kneed little punk? If you're so proud of being a hatemonger, why don't you post a photo so we can judge your handsomeness for ourselves?
Pic related: Me, not being a cowardly little cum smear afraid to stand behind my words.
>they could try to do to at least assimilate and deradicalize those already within their borders
This is a physical impossibility. What you call "assimilation" is only possible with demographically insignificant immigration. Once you allow people to form what are essentially hermetically sealed ethnic communities within your own country, you've lost that opportunity.
People "assimilate" in the way early Taiwanese-Americans did. They are FORCED to through the sheer demographic weight/force of numbers of the pre-existing majority.
I'll also add that the concept of "de-radicalization" is a buzzword pushed around, but one that doesn't seem to yield much by way of results. Bernard Haykel, a multi-lingual leading near-east expert has written extensively on the complete failure of the Gulf State's "de-radicalization" programs, and plenty more has been written on the failure of Sweden's programs if you want a comparable western example.
Finally, you're moving the burden of responsibility here. You're saying that Europeans are supposed to altruistically accept people who despise them and their way of life (people who are supposedly fleeing war zones to the safety of European states), and pay for their "de-radicalization", which doesn't even work anyway.
It's fucking insane, just listen to yourself.
As for weed man, he's a fucking idiot. Guy claims to come from the political left yet just signed off on a giant free trade deal with China.
>Singapore is an authoritarian shithole
Have you ever been? I doubt you can afford the air fare.
The MRT is one of the finest mass transit rail systems in the world. Just ask any civil engineer or city planner.
Delusional leftards who have no knowledge of the world outside of the west, speak no languages asides from English, have never traveled to anywhere by Western Europe or Canada telling people they need to be more "accepting of other people".
Never gets old.
I like how you got your favorite coffee shop in the background, really sticking it to the man and smashing capitalism.
Also I bet that Castro beard is hiding a weak chin.
>Finally, you're moving the burden of responsibility here. You're saying that Europeans are supposed to altruistically accept people who despise them and their way of life
Not really. I didn't state that accepting refugees had to be done. I'm glad Canada did it because Canada can do it properly- but as I think I stated Europe should have closed its gates long ago.
Trudeau is an idiot, admittedly I supported Mulclair but that being said being from the western provinces originally anyways I have a healthy distrust of the Liberal party.
Sure, I own three. All vintage. I'm nearly 50, it's allowed. I've also smoke a pipe for 20+ years and own a black oilskin trenchcoat. Fucks given about the sartorial conformity of a bunch of teenyboppers on a Bulgarian llama-swapping forum: zero.
you look like a very dumb individual, and your expression leaks a rough past of bad experiences.
no wonder you're antifa in this time and age, following the jew gold tide and trying to lead it brah, gotta prove something to those that wronged you?
>I doubt you can afford the air fare.
Immediate resorting to ad-hom. Classic.
>The MRT is one of the finest mass transit rail systems in the world. Just ask any civil engineer or city planner.
And yet the doors stop working over a little chewing-gum.
>Delusional leftards who have no knowledge of the world outside of the west, speak no languages asides from English, have never traveled to anywhere by Western Europe or Canada telling people they need to be more "accepting of other people".
Never said this. What I did was point out that the government banned an entire consumer product ('except for medicinal use', kek) because of a design flaw in their mass-transit system.
There's no reasonable justification for the chewing-gum ban. It's simple authoritarian policymaking, but then you can afford to do that when you run a one-party state with only notional opposition, redraw boundaries to your advantage, and retain the right to sue opposition candidates for libel when they make political claims about government policy.
>christian slave morality
You know Nietzsche was almost as much of an anti-nationalist and philosemitic cuck as the faggot you're responding to, right?
Gum isn't a big deal, and is legal now. Agreed the MRT is excellent.
That being said the government is most definitely authoritarian and quite undemocratic in how it suppresses other political parties- and disregarding all that, NS alone should be something both the left and the right can agree is very authoritarian. Singapore's culture also is very stifling IMO.
I'm the robot currently stuck in SG you talked to earlier, btw.
>Immediate resorting to ad-hom. Classic.
>And yet the doors stop working over a little chewing-gum.
They did? I'm pretty sure it was banned because it's a big part of why pavements in any major city are dirty and full of litter, and that it allows germs/pathogens to travel extremely easily when people are spitting it out onto streets people walk onto - extremely important for a part of the world with the sort of population density Singapore has.
>It's simple authoritarian policymaking, but then you can afford to do that when you run a one-party state with only notional opposition, redraw boundaries to your advantage,
Yes, Singapore is a de facto one party state. So? That's not a criticism in of itself because not everyone on earth shares your axiom of democracy being inherently good.
Try to criticize it on actual, material grounds. Its educational system, its wages, its rate of home ownership, its infrastructure, its level of criminality.
Oh wait, you can't.
>and retain the right to sue opposition candidates for libel when they make political claims about government policy.
The exact same laws LKY used against opposition figures applied to LKY himself. Singapore is a common law country where everyone is equal under the law, and even liberal NGOs like transparency international agree that its level of corruption is minimal.
Still haven't seen a photo from you Stormfriend. I've not only posted multiple photos of myself, I posted one of me in a fucking *fedora*. Let's see your ruggedly handsome mug. I mean, you have such strong opinions and loud mouth, surely you must be proud of what you say. Or are you just an ugly, moist, cowardly little piece of shit-stained toilet paper trailing from the heel of life, too frightened to stand behind his words? Because from where I sit, I'm the only one here with a pair of a fucking balls. Pic related: me, still not afraid to paint a target on my enormous ass. How about you, Fritz?
I understand that, but it is a de facto one party state for a reason. If the opposition come into power, they'll reverse everything that the PAP built. Starting with shit like quotas for Malays and Indians, and ending with turning Singapore into just another destination for the garbage of the third world.
HK is much, much more interesting in terms of things to do.
Sing is better to actually raise a family, but there's not much to do besides eat and go to sentosa.
Damn straight, fuck Singapore. The good outweighs the bad, beneath the fresh coat of paint and bright lights the city is downright rotten culturally and its government is horrible. Apart from that the city is just kind of bland.
i'm not a stormfriend, i'm a ciziten of europe that realizes the actual danger western civilization, and europe is facing, but a brute like you won't comprehend anything beside waving your fists.
It wouldn't have mattered your caused, you would have moved your fist anyways, you could have become what you hate, because deep down you do not care.
>its government is horrible
I think you take Singapore's prosperity for granted too much. You don't understand just how close it came to being another backwards, SEA shithole in the 1950s and 1960s.
/pol/feinds never had a knack for a spine... thats why they value anonynimity so much.
Who are you calling Fritz, Fidel?
Here, it's a picture of me. Come at me and I'll blow your head off in the name of capitalism. And since you're white, the liberal media won't be there to cry over your corpse like with Trayvoon ;)
When Mohandas Gandhi was asked what he thought of Western civilization, he replied that he thought it would be an excellent idea. This whole ugly, oppressive structure needs to be smashed down to the fucking ground, leaving no stone standing on another. The general of the anarchist forces in Spain during the Spanish Civil War, Buenoventura Durruti, was asked by a reporter if he was worried about the damage he was doing. His answer was, "It is we the workers who built these palaces and cities, here in Spain and in America, and everywhere. We, the workers, can build others to take their place, and better ones! We are not in the least afraid of ruins. We are going to inherit the earth, there is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie might blast and ruin its own world before it leaves the stage of history. We carry a new world, here, in our hearts."
>because it's a big part of why pavements in any major city are dirty and full of litter
Litter is a different issue entirely, people spitting gum doesn't instantly mean people drop litter.
>it allows germs/pathogens to travel extremely easily when people are spitting it out onto streets people walk onto - extremely important for a part of the world with the sort of population density Singapore has.
And yet 'any major city' has dirty, litter filled streets without severe gum related health problems. Granted, Singapore is more densely populated than HK, but the difference isn't significant enough to justify it.
>That's not a criticism in of itself because not everyone on earth shares your axiom of democracy being inherently good.
Let me guess, 'Muh Asian values!' ?
Democracy is not inherently good, but it is generally preferable in developed states as it results in better policymaking in the long term (and at least gives the public input on whether they want authoritarian policies like chewing-gum bans and the various restriction on free speech for causes like racial harmony - which are ironically far more restrictive than anything you'll find in 'leftist' europe.), you can have actual democracy and still usually have one party in power (see:Japan)
>Try to criticize it on actual, material grounds. Its educational system, its wages, its rate of home ownership, its infrastructure, its level of criminality.
I could, but that would only result in further accusations of leftism. I'll just note that in the area of free speech/expression, Singapore leaves a lot to be desired on the civil liberties front (let me guess, free speech isn't important either. Asian values!), let alone getting into the treatment of migrant workers (hey, at least it's not the UAE) or human trafficking issues.
>The exact same laws LKY used against opposition figures applied to LKY himself.
I'm sure opposition figures have the same financial and political power as LKY too. Ha ha ha.
>I think you take Singapore's prosperity for granted too much
not him, but most of Singapore's prosperity comes down to one thing:
location, location, location.
if it became a backwards shithole in the 50s/60s it would still be south-korea tier or better today.
>If the opposition come into power, they'll reverse everything that the PAP built. Starting with shit like quotas for Malays and Indians, and ending with turning Singapore into just another destination for the garbage of the third world.
If they tried that they would lose the next election, silly. You see in a democracy, people get to vote out parties that do things they dislike!
There are a bunch of Nigerians in Tokyo running hostess bars and Hip Hop shops, they aggressively tout on the street but I guess I can't really blame them, few Japanese will hire them for anything else.
It's still annoying AF
No pretending, "ma'am". I'm the real thing. I've been peppersprayed, pepperballed, peppergassed, teargassed, truncheoned, bitten by police dogs, blasted by water cannons, deafened by LRAD, and had guns pointed at my head more than once. There's a Wikipedia artcle about me, and my biggest claim to fame is getting thrown out of prison for organizing the other inmates to fight for better conditions. And I am *still* the only person in this thread with the big brass clangers to post a photo of himself. So let's see YOUR picture.
>Litter is a different issue entirely, people spitting gum doesn't instantly mean people drop litter.
No it isn't. The ostensible reason for the ban was littering, people spit gum out everywhere. Take a look at a pavement in a major western metropolis.
>And yet 'any major city' has dirty, litter filled streets without severe gum related health problems.
Are you being sarcastic here? I'm not sure what your point is. Gum doesn't have any effect on actual gum problems, for that you need to see a dental hygienist.
>Democracy is not inherently good, but it is generally preferable in developed states as it results in better policymaking in the long term
Both of these assumptions have absolutely no evidence. Actually, if anything democracy dis-incentivizes long term decision making because 1) Nobody actually owns the capital stock of the country in the long term and 2) Democratic governments become incredibly dependent on client voter bases, for example Labour in the UK with its massive immigrant voting base and its attempt throughout its tenureship to bring in as many as possible, at least in part, to build this base.
Yes. Different groups of people have different values and different philosophical outlooks. Your error is that you view the entire world as simple "white people who look a bit different", and essentially have the exact same values western people have, but are at different stages along the "road to liberal democracy".
>you can have actual democracy and still usually have one party in power (see:Japan)
Japan is also a de facto one party state. It is also not really a democracy, given that most policy-making initiatives don't really arise from the diet, they originate from an entrenched bureaucracy that go on to assume corporate positions later in life.
Yes. Again. Why do you assume the entire world is just white people of differing hues and morphologies?
It's because he's a fat fuck and his guts wobble. He is almost as unhealthy as the real Fidel Castro. I bet if he ever came up against an actual fascist in person he would shit himself and pass out before they would even get to beat him. Soon all the Lenin statues will be pulled down and he won't be able to do a thing about it.
True enough, but in the first place the PAP had little restraint (at least compared to the west) in building up Singapore to the way it is now. I can see why anyone would want it changed- even most western right-wingers would not agree with what's in place here, it just has no parallel (and I consider that a good thing).
Maybe without the PAP Singapore will become another third world failed state, though I suppose that might be pushing it. I do think that even the PAP can't hold power in Singapore indefinitely while trying to have some sort of pretense of a legitimate "democracy" in the works- Singapore is a wealthy enough country that the people are starting to realize that even the worst of the western world provides more freedom and breathing space and variety.
Agreeing also that HK is much better for things to do. Singapore perhaps might be the kind of place people who want to raise families would want to live in- but it's not a good place to grow up in nor live in otherwise, IMO.
May as well note I'm actually Singaporean who was raised abroad and is here for NS, so NS particularly is a bitter spot for me, particularly in how Singapore really seems to try to bleed out as much as possible from me, or how the culture here expects to impose itself on me due to my citizenship.
That being said however, while the people raised here of my generation are rather "westernized" it just isn't the same- Singapore at its current core (the PAP) is not a free country nor one that treats its citizens with much respect. (not phrasing this in a liberal sense- though in the liberal sense it's probably several times worse of a country)
The experience of Singapore should be pretty standard; basically just coming to the island, wasting some money, then afterwards realizing there's nothing else to do. But living in Singapore especially as a citizen is something else.
people like this make me hate being a lefty
I mean, more autonomy, self management, and rights for people that aren't ruling class is great
but then there's fat dudes like this and they give everyone a bad name
i'm only a lefty because i don't want to be fucked in the ass by nazis (i'm not white) or the wealthy
They work out the term of their temporary work visa and then they're sent back.
God forbid that a temporary work visa actually means "temporary" and doesn't grant every single fruit picker within your nation some sort of "path to citizenship". God forbid actually making citizenship something to aspire to beyond a mere piece of paper as it is in western countries these days.
>I'm sure opposition figures have the same financial and political power as LKY too. Ha ha ha.
Singapore has legal aid, believe it or not. And LKY represented himself in court most of the time, he's a former lawyer after all.
Actually, that's not true. Most of Singapore's wealth comes from capital intensive manufacturing and services, things that aren't location dependant.
They actually became the de facto shipping hub in SEA, taking that crown away from HK precisely because they built, using domestic industry for the most part, world class facilities for VLCCs and dry/wet bulk vessels, as well as logistics that HK didn't have.
Actually, Malaysia is much better situated to become a shipping hub if you want to bring location up.
>If they tried that they would lose the next election, silly.
Depends on the shifting demographics. Malay voters are obviously amenable to Malay tribalism, another thing that makes democracies in multi-racial states disastrous.
Honestly, why are you so obsessed with the idea of spreading liberalism anyway? It's like a fucking 19th century Christfag. Let other races do their shit their own way for fuck sake.
That fucker just seeks violence, antifa is just an excuse, he would have been a neonazi if the chanse showed, he just needs to vent his rage towards something, a complete loser in short.
I'm not a leftist. I'm a mutualist anarchist, which puts me slightly right of centre. So it's okay, you can go ahead and be a proud leftist. Most of the leftists I've met are like you anyway; shallow, stupid, lazy, and not overly given to putting themselves in harm's way.
>The ostensible reason for the ban was littering, people spit gum out everywhere
You ban gum, great, people still drop cans. Will we ban cans next?
>Are you being sarcastic here? I'm not sure what your point is
My point is that people spit gum and drop cans in 'any major city', yet Singapore is almost unique in needing to resort to banning a product as a result.
>Gum doesn't have any effect on actual gum problems
Please tell me you're Asian and a non-native English speaker. 'Gum-related' was 'Health problems as a result of people spitting gum', i.e. increased diseases as a result, not related to the part of the body called the gum.
>Both of these assumptions have absolutely no evidence
You cite the Labour party in the UK - do you know what happened to that party? After 13 years of doing shit like that which people didn't like, they were thrown out of power and are now in long-term decline. Do you know what would happen if the PAP decided to implement the same policies? People would have no real recourse.
[15 minute break for laughter here]
Asian values is a ridiculous concept, yes different people have different values - that's one of the appeals of democracy, it allows them to express those differing values.
>Japan is also a de facto one party state. It is also not really a democracy
This doesn't really stand as an endorsement of Singapore when even Japan had the opposition take power once.
>Why do you assume the entire world is just white people of differing hues and morphologies?
There are two quick ways to conclude this:
1. 'The entire world is just white people of differing hues and morphologies' and thus can be trusted to govern itself (Retain Singapore independence, etc.)
2. The entire world has different values and as such are more or less 'civilized' by nature, if this is the case it's the white-man's burden to govern them responsibly because they're too primitive to do it themselves (Recolonize Singapore.)
>Singapore is a wealthy enough country that the people are starting to realize that even the worst of the western world provides more freedom and breathing space and variety.
Mate, you can't speak Chinese. It's the exact opposite. People in East Asia are looking at what is happening in Europe right now and thinking to themselves "If that's democracy, we want nothing of it."
Please don't think East Asian people are in awe of our altruism. They're astonished at our stupidity more than anything.
Do you really equate wanting the same sort of immigration and naturalization laws non-western states have with "Nazism"?
Come on dude, you're basically saying you want to minoritize us in our own homelands so you feel safer. Would you also want your ancestral homeland to have the same permissive attitudes to refugees?
>God forbid that a temporary work visa actually means "temporary" and doesn't grant every single fruit picker within your nation some sort of "path to citizenship". God forbid actually making citizenship something to aspire to beyond a mere piece of paper as it is in western countries these days.
That's not the point being made, the point is one about conditions while they're staying temporarily, not that their stay is temporary.
>Singapore has legal aid, believe it or not. And LKY represented himself in court most of the time, he's a former lawyer after all.
I don't think I'll further press the issue that LKY starts in a far more powerful position than the opposition, even if they are equal before the letter of the law. I severely doubt I'll drive the point home.
>You ban gum, great, people still drop cans. Will we ban cans next?
You can ban gum a lot more easily than soft drinks. They're also just as harsh on general littering of the kind you're talking about.
>My point is that people spit gum and drop cans in 'any major city', yet Singapore is almost unique in needing to resort to banning a product as a result.
Because Chinese people are different and have a different philosophy, generally speaking, to white people.
Your error is this belief that liberalism is some default thing that all people on earth believe in. It's exactly what led to the problems with have with "integration" in Europe now. Our leaders thought that these people were just white people who happened to eat different foods or look a bit different. They're not. The difference is in the axiomatic assumptions about ethics and in many cases, metaphysics too.
>After 13 years of doing shit like that which people didn't like, they were thrown out of power and are now in long-term decline.
> Do you know what would happen if the PAP decided to implement the same policies? People would have no real recourse.
Chinese people would begin race riots if that sort of shit happened in a Chinese society. Remember that the mere rumour of a Uighur raping a Han woman in Shenzhen some years ago was enough to start a murderous race riot.
>Asian values is a ridiculous concept, yes different people have different values
But you seem to be unprepared to accept the logical consequences of this belief, that the world's peoples aren't on some sort of universal road to liberal democracy. Remember the sorts of editorials we were seeing from leftists about the Arab Spring years ago, about how it was all going to be about democracy and LGBT rights?
>when even Japan had the opposition take power once.
The DPJ were impotent to do anything even then.
Funny thing you should say that. I remember seeing a talk by Federico Arcos at the Anarchist Book Fair in Montreal. Federico was, at the time, one of the last living soldiers who had served in the anarchist Durruti Column during the Spanish Civil War. After Durruti was assassinated by the Bolsheviks and the Durruti Column collapsed, Arcos joined the US forces. A young anarchist woman in the audience asked Federico how he justified serving with an imperialist army. Federico just shrugged and said, "I wanted to kill Nazis. They were the only ones doing it."
Am I proud that I've punched boneheads in the mouth? Am I proud that I've helped kick Nazis off our streets? Damned straight. If that makes me a violent person, then so be it. To quote NoFX, "It's okay, allow yourself a little hate; hatred is not so bad when directed at injustice."
>Let other races do their shit their own way for fuck sake.
I concur wholeheartedly!
>2. The entire world has different values and as such are more or less 'civilized' by nature, if this is the case it's the white-man's burden to govern them responsibly because they're too primitive to do it themselves (Recolonize Singapore.)
No. That does no benefit to us (it doesn't address the fundamental problem of our minoritization) and it doesn't do any benefit to anyone else, it only makes people hate white people for a cause that doesn't even benefit us in any tribal sense in the long run.
>strong organized crime
Triads are a lot weaker now than they were in the past. Even then, they won't do a damn thing to you, all they do is run strip joints, prostitution and money laundering enterprises.
>the point is one about conditions while they're staying temporarily
Yes, they stay in temporary accommodation. They're not obligated to. Singapore law forbids coercing someone to work, even non-citizens.
>I don't think I'll further press the issue that LKY starts in a far more powerful position than the opposition
Then why do liberal-slanted NGOs like Transparency Index state Singapore is one of the least corrupt places on earth?
Re: Labour. They fucked this country up beyond repair in those 13 years. They forever altered the demographics of the place. It's impossible to go back now.
>They're also just as harsh on general littering of the kind you're talking about.
If that was the case they would outright ban all products and starve.
>Because Chinese people are different and have a different philosophy, generally speaking, to white people.
Hong Kong and Singapore are both majority ethnic Chinese, yet only Singapore bans gum?
>Your error is this belief that liberalism is some default thing that all people on earth believe in.
It's not a belief, it's a kindly assumption - if you don't share the white man's belief then you're inherently inferior and should be recolonized. Our assumptions lead to the best overall treatment for individuals. I would even put forward your viewpoint as a possible way to explain the current state of Europe (white man's burden minus the feeling colonization is moral = importing lesser races in a futile attempt to help them.)
>Remember that the mere rumour of a Uighur raping a Han woman in Shenzhen some years ago was enough to start a murderous race riot.
May I venture that this is a chimpout?
>belief, that the world's peoples aren't on some sort of universal road to liberal democracy
I don't believe this - I've stated that Singapore should be a democracy, not that Singapore is on the path to democracy. 'States should be liberal democracies' and 'States will be liberal democracies' are two very different things.
>The DPJ were impotent to do anything even then.
Then why has Singapore not similarly moved forward with their token democracy?
>Triads are a lot weaker now than they were in the past
Sure, but that's like saying the sun is a lot cooler than it were in the past
>Even then, they won't do a damn thing to you
Unless you run a business or make any real money that is.
Just goes to show, commie faggots like you need capitalists to prop them up, because when they go up against fascists alone like in the Spanish Civil War, they get blown the fuck out.
You fat fuck, I bet the real reason you were kicked out of prison was because you kept dropping the soap and can't even reach to stimulate your own prostate. You must not even be able to wipe your own ass, that is probably why you beg for money in the streets and still feel the need to "unionize". Scum-sucking parasite.
>That does no benefit to us
The British empire did nothing to benefit the UK?
>it doesn't do any benefit to anyone else
It lets them live in a stable society that doesn't arbitrarily ban chewing gum, with a powerful army to come and sort things out if the natives start chimping out.
>If that was the case they would outright ban all products and starve.
I'm referring to littering fines and punishments.
>Hong Kong and Singapore are both majority ethnic Chinese, yet only Singapore bans gum?
Singapore is stricter than Hong Kong. It's also cleaner. I don't remember saying that it was a necessary part of a Chinese society to ban gum, only that Chinese generally tend towards more hierarchical, less democratic systems. lrn2Confucius.
>if you don't share the white man's belief then you're inherently inferior and should be recolonized.
I am white. I am a white racial nationalist at that. I care far more about my people and ensuring their demographic dominance in their homelands than I do about pushing self-defeating, abstract ideas on other races.
>May I venture that this is a chimpout?
No, this it's a natural defense mechanism. If Europeans did this as systematically as Chinese did, refugees wouldn't DARE do the things they do.
>'States should be liberal democracies'
And this liberal internationalism has no tangible benefit for anyone, least of all whites. You can try pushing this when we're 20% of America and Europe and see how far you get.
>Then why has Singapore not similarly moved forward with their token democracy?
Because I've already stated Marxist historical materialism is bullshit?
>Sure, but that's like saying the sun is a lot cooler than it were in the past
It's up to you to demonstrate that triads are a greater problem in terms of criminality than the endemic criminality in western cities.
>Unless you run a business or make any real money that is.
Again, where's the proof the scale is any greater than western organized criminality?
>The British empire did nothing to benefit the UK?
The British Empire was not a democracy, it appointed Governors to run its various dependencies and full franchise within the British Isles only came about in the late 1920s, when we were on the decline.
>It lets them live in a stable society that doesn't arbitrarily ban chewing gum
The first is an assumption. A democratic Singapore would be much more unstable than a PAP-run Singapore, that much is for sure. The second is irrelevant. On what actual, material metric of wellbeing - taking into account Singapore's land/population limitations, does the UK outperform Singapore now?
Strong words from a frightened little boy hiding in his mommy's basement behind a wall of poopjugs and hentai doujin, too afraid to post a photo of himself and show us all his rugged good looks. Still waiting, Fritz.
>People in East Asia are looking at what is happening in Europe right now and thinking to themselves "If that's democracy, we want nothing of it."
I can say that I've seen this much from my own relatives who speak English, sure- but Europe is a vastly different story from the US/Canada.
Most people seem to have a very negative opinion of Australia here because of racism, but past that a large enough number of Singaporeans (granted- I can only talk to those who speak English, though that's already a lot) are not exactly happy with their current system either to say the least. Many Singaporeans want to, and actually leave Singapore and their citizenship for good to head to greener pastures, though I won't deny that regardless of what party is in power or what policies are in place it's Singapore's fate to be an expensive, cramped and overcompetitive place to live, which isn't for most people. Europe shouldn't and isn't taken as representative of the whole of the west here.
The older Singaporeans can recall a Singapore that was a complete shithole, and as such are grateful for what they have. Talking to anyone outside of the "pioneer" age group, you'll hear enough stories about relatives who have moved to Australia/NZ/Canada/US typically, and are enjoying life more there.
Not saying the average Singaporean is totally in disapproval of their government- and honestly the PAP is possibly still the best for Singapore at the moment- but there's no denying that there's a large enough gap in lifestyle quality and freedom between the west and Singapore for Singaporeans at least to notice.
Granted, Singaporeans also report the same moving to Taiwan/HK/etc.
On the context of all of East Asia, I'd say I don't expect Asians to want democracy. Not that they'd be against it either. But I can definitely imagine (and can see in Singapore at least) a movement for "western" liberties and breathing space at least, one that I think is natural for anyone to want.
Playing politics or the law system in Singapore is like playing a game of poker where the official deck is a stacked one.
It's not "corrupt" when government officials earn million-dollar salaries and it's perfectly legal- opposition parties are slammed with defamation and slander charges and it's similarly legal- the PAP sets the rules after all.
I would say the entire system is corrupt. But in the context of partisan corruption Singapore comes off as clean as a whistle.
>in place it's Singapore's fate to be an expensive, cramped and overcompetitive place to live, which isn't for most people
i am born here
with a vagoo
the men here act like women
even the most beta of r9k is an alpha in comparison
if a girl puts on make up and tries to wear nice clothes, she is too superficial
you will have ugly fedora-tier males telling you that you look like shit when you look gorgeous
if a girl does absolutely nothing and only wear t-shirts and jeans she isnt pretty enough
if you have a boyfriend, he wont kiss you. you have to take the initiative to kiss him.
you can never be not fat
at work people surf facebook and edmw and take 5 coffee breaks a day, then clock overtime until 10pm because they are SO HARDWORKING
so if you leave work at 6pm, you are one LAZY FUCKER even though you spent all your work hours productively
if you check a cute guy out, and you dare tell anyone, everyone will call you desperate
if you dare say a guy or a girl is attractive, you are purely judgemental and thus a terrible person
to be a gamer just play a lot of MOBA
everyone thinks money is king
money is everything
i disagree with that and i just want to be happy, and everyone thinks i am a dumbfuck
if a person is not filthy rich they have no self esteem
i am extremely friendly and outgoing
i don't have friends
nobody wants to hang out with anyone new, everyone only wants to be in their cliques
you MUST do any activity with ANOTHER PERSON or you are an absolute loner
nobody understands the concept of 'alone time'
weekends everywhere is crowded as fuck
queue 30 minutes to buy groceries at supermarket
single-basket lane is full of trolleys filled to the brim
queue 15minutes to buy a fucking apple on saturday
i hate this place so much i cant wait to fucking finish university and leave this wretched hell
also, basic level 1 slime type of kink like bdsm is equated to sexual perversion here
if you're not vanilla, you are mentally ill, which means you are crazy, and therefore carry the innate potential to go on berserker mode rampage. all mentally ill people are possible murderers. they need to be locked up away from society
^^^ people genuinely believe this in singapore
young adults usually but not always fall into two major groups:
the Junior College kid (two years of uni prep), hardworking clever nerds who dont know much about the outside world and believe that you must be Nice To Everybody. The kind of people who want singapore to accept refugees fall into this group.
the lazy fuck: they suck at whatever they signed up to do (whether it's work or their choice of study/major in school), whine about how they dont get good at it, do nothing except Think and Brood and still suck at it. Seriously that's all fine and i dont care if they do that, but the combination of them sucking + their guilt causes them to commit sabotage. i've had my parts of my group projects deleted because my partner was afraid i'd score better than him since i actually worked hard and had better skills than him.
if you ever work in any service line here, god forbid the customer actually warrant any service, because that only pisses the wagecuck off
i've worked at restaurants where colleagues come up to me to sarcastically tell me to stop smiling to customers and stop providing service, because they're too lazy to do it and i was "spoiling the market" for them.
a supervisor gives a group of us a list of things to do, and i tell these newbies that how we can split the work, and the girl actually told me "no i dont want to do anything. i want to go toilet. whether i help or i dont help, i end work at 11pm anyway."
*going to the restroom is a way to skive off