Are your parents to blame for the way you are?

Nature or Nurture, your parents are responsible for both.
Science shows that who we are is almost entirely genetic.

>>25875172
Partially, yes.

>>25875172
I would think it's a combination of the environment you grow up in as well as how you're raised by your parents. We do have free will though, so anyone can really make any decision they want.

Yes they had no right to reproduce.

maybe a little, I feel the need to hide everything because my mom doesn't respect my privacy and she's always trying to scare me that I'm gonna be a failure

it's not like she's a bad mother, she just had a weird upbringing and some of it carried over

They probably could've saved me but I don't blame them. It's still mostly my fault

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Thanks for the mind damaging pills mom and dad!

>>25876236
FUCKIN RETORDS!

yes, my parents are to blame. if they hadn't physically abused me, i might be a little more sane, stable and successful today.

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I've always been reluctant to blame my mom for my fucked-up life, but recently I've been having a hard time resisting the urge.
>single mother
>puts me down all throughout my life with snarky but seemingly-innocent comments ("You're wearing THAT today? etc.)
>gets angry at me when I'm too weak/stupid to do things around the house (one Christmas we were putting up the tree together and she told me to lift it to insert it into the stand; I tried but it was too heavy. She started screaming that she's the one who has to do everything around the house and I locked myself in the bathroom and cried)
>as a result, develop social anxiety disorder around 11 or 12
>it's very clear that there's something wrong with me (I have no friends, I stay in all the time instead of going out, I freak out when she asks me to go to the store because the experience is really scary, etc.) but she doesn't see it
>finally break down last year and (at 19) tell her about my mental issues because it doesn't look like she's going to do anything about it anytime soon
>she says she had "no idea" and that this is a shock to hear
>sends me to multiple therapists, whenever I get comfortable with one she yanks me away and sends me to a different one because the other one "wasn't working fast enough"
>she's openly critical of any medication I get prescribed and doesn't even give it a chance
>all she does now is mope around the house and lament the fact that I'm "not getting any better," making me feel like even more of a shithead for making her feel bad
Tbh I love her and she loves me but I honestly can't tell if she fucked up as a mother or if I'm just being an ungrateful cunt who's looking for someone to blame for my shitty life and personality. Either way, I'm going to kill myself soon.

>>25876236
I found out my parents gave me pills when I was a young child that you shouldn't give children because they may stop growth-. These retards made me a manlet

Absolutely. My dad was barely home and when he was he was an abusive asshole and my mom coddled me because of it.

>>25876815
It's mainly you, I'd tell you not to kill yourself but it's your choice. Use helium though, guns and ropes are the #1 way to veggihood of various crunchiness.

I would blame them but my sister turned out to be an ultra normie/stacey who's successful at everything, so I guess it's just my own decisions and my genetics.

>>25876886
What pills? I was jacked up on Ritalin for years on end.

"Blaming" people is stupid. There's no free will.

Science and logic have killed libertarian free will dead, and compatibilist "free will" is sophistic bullshit.

Your parents might have fucked you up, but they couldn't have helped themselves, because things caused them to do that. Everything you do has some kind of cause.

We're all just slaves to cause and effect. "Blaming" people is a stupid thing to do.

>>25878324
So something inside you made you make this stupid post?

Interesting. Interesting.

>>25878448

Explain why you think it's stupid.

>>25878466
I don't I was just kidding.

Free will is absolutely debatable. We've identified all these things causing us to feel certain ways (oxytocin, for example).

What makes people do the stupid shit they do, especially when the detrimental outcome is obvious?

>>25878556

>Free will is absolutely debatable.

Libertarian free will is dead. Compatibilism is what we're left with, and it's quite frankly a desperate clutching-at-straws with a hefty heap of deception by distraction and jargon thrown in.

Try to define how you conceive libertarian free will, in your own words (or those of someone else). It'll reveal itself as clearly incoherent.

>What makes people do the stupid shit they do, especially when the detrimental outcome is obvious?

Was it obvious to them, at the time? I doubt it. Every time I ever did something stupid, it seemed like an okay idea at the time.

>>25878634
Life is weird senpai desu

>>25878324

You are the same dude who says this on a daily basis and it's obvious you only say it in this context to alleviate blame from your parents (a mindset you "choose" as much as you can anything).

You're technically right, but since human beings can never know the true scope of cause and effect, we're still going to act as if each other have free will.

E.G. if I murder you other people are not going to go oh well, he doesn't really have free will, he is just playing out what he is pre-programmed to do from his genetics and life experience, I'll just sit here twiddling my thumbs, they are going to go jesus christ put that psycho in prison before he kills someone over an internet debate again.

It's as pedantic as this thing in muslim culture where they excuse being lazy by saying what you want them to do will only happen "if allah wills it". How the fuck am I meant to know if allah wills something or not? Get off your lazy islamic ass and put some work in since for all you know that's allah's will.

>>25878634
Determinism correct because at the end it is simply 'what happened, happened and what will happen will happen' and it is not false, even multiverse theory hold this is true unless there is some kind of universe in which time isn't relevant but that is irrelevant for any discussion in this one.
>>25878887
God wills it is a lazy way to go about life but in regions as unstable as the Middle East the average person has pretty much only that.

>>25878887

>You are the same dude who says this on a daily basis and it's obvious you only say it in this context to alleviate blame from your parents (a mindset you "choose" as much as you can anything).

Ad hominem bullshit. Spare me.

>You're technically right, but since human beings can never know the true scope of cause and effect, we're still going to act as if each other have free will.

I act "as if" I and others have a free will only to the minimal extent necessary, realizing that due to my conditioning (and some level of pragmatism), it's kind of necessary to sort of pretend to believe in it. But I don't take it seriously.

>E.G. if I murder you other people are not going to go oh well, he doesn't really have free will, he is just playing out what he is pre-programmed to do from his genetics and life experience, I'll just sit here twiddling my thumbs, they are going to go jesus christ put that psycho in prison before he kills someone over an internet debate again.

No. Just because you realize someone doesn't have free will doesn't mean you let them murder other people. You know a tornado doesn't have free will but you still take measures to protect yourself from it.

>>25876815

Your mom needs a husband to function.
You need a functional mother and father to function.

Basically, it's not entirely your fault.

>>25875172

To begin with? Maybe a little bit. Maybe a lot.

However, The blame-train left the station long ago. I took responsibility for my own failures a long time ago, no matter if the root cause was something other than myself or not.

>>25878324
>>25878634
>>25878887
>>25879105

Reading for like 3 minutes about determinism essentially destroyed me. It is the ultimate redpill and the ultimate fedora.
I don't know how to un-redpill myself because there's so much proof. This is the danger of becoming too "depressed". You think about stuff and can't just return to ignorance and happiness.

If the human brain is just molecules, and the interactions of molecules are determined by physics, then how can free will exist? I wish I was just a happy normie who cared about sports and hanging out with friends.

>>25879105
In the end it is pedantism, there is no way to actually apply any of the determinism philosophy in any meaningful way becasue in day to day life you need to act as if there is free will or simply become a doormat. Weather patterns are a shit example becasue something that scale has only several logical ways of moving based on proven physics, you can study people and guess kind of where they are headed like in civil engineering but you can't plan for every action people take. I'm not saying there is some kind of metaphysics in choice but that free will doesn't matter, actions do and the where the thoughts that beget them come from isn't particularly relevant unless obviously studying the specific interactions in a clinical setting.
>>25879344
Human minds don't work on that scale, it's fucking retarded to be shocked or change the way you interact with the world becasue you 'discovered' that the physical world happens to be physical. Don't worry about it unless you are either a neuroscientist or a physicist. Maybe a mathematician.

>>25879069
>God wills it is a lazy way to go about life but in regions as unstable as the Middle East the average person has pretty much only that.

Yeah I get the impression it's a sort of cultural coping mechanism, because over there even if you do work really hard, your life will still be shit and might at random go to complete shit if a war kicks off.

>>25879105

>Ad hominem bullshit. Spare me.

Fuck you it's relevant, you would never post this to someone saying "is it my m8s fault or mine for forgetting his b-day?" or whatever O N L Y when someone suggest blaming your parents, you literally do it in every thread you see like this.

It's no insult to say your parents failed you since uhh it's /r9k/ welcome to the club.

>I act "as if" I and others have a free will only to the minimal extent necessary, realizing that due to my conditioning (and some level of pragmatism), it's kind of necessary to sort of pretend to believe in it. But I don't take it seriously.

Exactly. So just like how you aren't going to sit there starving to death because what's the point of pretending you can choose to eat or whatever truly consistent defeatist mindset you only apply it to giving onus to parenting because that's what causes you anxiety.

Actually I'm kind of arguing against free will better than you are since you probably don't even know this is your coping mechanism you just feel anxiety and don't want to think about shit parenting so land on determinism.

>No. Just because you realize someone doesn't have free will doesn't mean you let them murder other people. You know a tornado doesn't have free will but you still take measures to protect yourself from it.

Exactly, so even though you know shit parents don't have free will it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to encourage people not to be shit parents/not be a shit parent yourself/stop suppressing anxiety by excusing your own shit parents/ect as your actions are part of the ecosystem of cause and effect one way or another.

>>25875172
*is your parent(singular)

i try not to blame other people for the way i turned out as it was 100% my actions that fucked me over

i spent my entire adolescent years being a shut in doing nothing but playing world of warcraft and watching anime

i do like to imagine how my life would have turned out if my parents had cut the internet off and forced me to keep going to school and actually leave the house and socialize. i had a very normal childhood pre adolescents so it's not like i didn't know how to interact with others, i just chose the hikkikimori lifestyle for some retarded reason and now i am too far gone with 10 years of social isolation under my belt

but like i said, i became a shut in of my own accord and thus am a 23 year old man with no friends and still a virgin

Absolutely 100% without a doubt it was my parents fault.
I'm not going to greentext my whole life again, but when the only person you end up with in your life is a massive alcoholic, you are going to be fucked in the head.
From what I've read online about children of alcoholic parents, it is exactly me even the thing about making a "game" by telling yourself if you get good grades, don't get in the way or clean the house, your parent won't come home drunk. I thought it was just something stupid I had tried when little, but apparently it's a game many children do with an alcoholic in their life.

>>25879691

I feel like you and I agree more than we disagree.

Neither of us believes in free will. Both of us believe that even though there's no free will, peoples' actions influence, or hell, CAUSE the state of things in the future.

So what are we arguing about, really?

I'm not saying parents should be shitty parents. I just don't think it's a good idea to be resentful towards your parents or blame them. They did the best they could, at the time, with their level of intelligence and all the stresses and stuff that was going on in their lives. They're just people, man.

>>25875172
absolutely not, they gave me top-tier genetics, not only good looks (tall, athletic, good hair, good face) but also intelligence.Not their fault i'm a sociopath, unable to feel love but for myself lol

>>25879603
>Human minds don't work on that scale, it's fucking retarded to be shocked or change the way you interact with the world becasue you 'discovered' that the physical world happens to be physical. Don't worry about it unless you are either a neuroscientist or a physicist. Maybe a mathematician.

This makes literally no sense. If stars, animals, hurricanes and everything else is dictated by physics, why wouldn't the human brain be? Once you realize that nothing else CAN be affecting your mind other than what's happening in your brain, freewill can't exist. We already know that chemicals determine feelings and experiences determine what chemicals get released. To think some part of that is just self-generated from nowhere is sort of dumb.

The thing that my parents never taught me was how to survive in the real world. My mom thought I had to be coddled and people would always be willing to make exceptions for me. My dad worked a lot and I never spent a lot a lot of time with him or learned any life lessons so to speak. They also had a shitty marriage and that sort of warped my perception of dating and relationships.

Me being weird hasn't helped either.