I'd only marry if the chick I was with was mutually crazy over me. And even then...I'd worry. Divorce fucks over the man more than the woman, and because of Listen and Believe, I could be quadfucked if she chooses to say I raped or beat her, and no evidence would be needed.
>>25858863 I have notice that the only women who are okay with this are women who already secure a man. the women that panic are the women without a man. the bottom line is that all women care about marriage even the biggest sluts that you can think of want to get married because it gives them financial security and access to a man's resources.
>>25859719 >poor decisions Not getting married seems like a smart decision to me. The future is already destroyed Anon, women aren't going back to the kitchen and men aren't going back to being slaves. That shit is gone, time to adjust.
>>25858711 I only care about not dying alone, so as long as he stays by my side and doesn't cheat on me, then I'm perfectly happy with not getting married. Weddings are a huge waste of money and bull anyway.
>>25860258 I'm too much of a naive romantic, so I don't know how well that answer sits with me...
But marriages don't change much, except legal shit. And since the divorce rate is skyrocketing that's also a terrifying prospect. Maybe more people are fine with the idea of being divorced but that shit would stick with me. Marriage is supposed to mean something. Guess that's why I'd prefer a collar and leash to a wedding ring. Those still mean something.
>>25858711 In my country someone dating and having a relationship with the same person for 5 years are considered wife and husband and the female has legal authority over the kids and can go away with 50% of everything that the couple once had in the house.
I don't think anyone in this generation wants to get married.
We're all way to individualistic. We won't get married because "what's in it for me? Why should I waste my time with a partner and child"
Also, mass media subtly lowers our opinion of marriage too. We all see articles on the internet about how marriage ruins peoples lives and how everyone is cheating etc But we never see articles about the good points of marriage, or how monogamy works out. It's all negativity because tha's what sells. Mass media has neutered us.
All I want is to have several children in a stable marriage with a nice woman. I'm probably not well-adjusted enough for that though, and even if I was the chances of a relationship lasting are slim. Best to not bother trying.
>>25858711 I doubt they care, since the amount of MGTOWs will never be large enough to cause any actual significant effects. There will always be a large majority of men who say >B-but not ALL women! and >They're all just bitter CIS virgins who won't MAN UP like me, I'm a REAL MAN!
Most women implicitly know that this is how the typical man reacts. So no, women don't care.
>>25858711 I don't think so. Not in any profound way. They'd care in sort of a vain "I can't believe I can't have everything I want" sort of way. Then they'd go back to random hook ups and getting gangbanged by a few guys at once, probably behind the back of whatever convenient "boyfriend" they're with at the time.
>>25861179 >other women, their mothers That's really perplexing advice, you want me to bang my gfs mom and friends? >Places like church (I'm an atheist) It's a sin to date or marry a non-believer senpai, if she was fugging w/ you she's a skank believer.
>>25860999 guys like that are the biggest idiots I have ever met and by the time they learn their lesson they will have a gun in their mouth because their wife took everything from them while having to pay child support and alimony.
Its not going to hit them yet. I predict that a shit ton more blogposts about being 30+ and not married will pop up in the future. Women are already outpacing men in terms of graduating from college, and even though their degrees are usually in something useless, women still want to date up. They'll try to lock down the Chads, but we all know that the Chads won't commit, and even if he did, there would be 10 women fighting for him.
At the same time, a lot of beta bucks are starting to drop out of the game all together. We already see this shit going on now. It used to be that they could find a beta bux provider to pay for their bullshit, but that's not even an option anymore.
Either women learn to settle (highly unlikely), or they stop acting like cunts and become more pleasant to be around (>implying). The most likely option is to make polyamory legal, that way they can share a Chad.
I'm getting married in a year or so. It won't actually be a proper thing, I'll have to make my own dress, sit everyone down in a park or something, and the whole significance- which was once about transition into home ownership and stability is completely lost. We'll never own a house. The party will be a fun diversion though.
Men should give up on women, we're shit. The old world is dead, we'll drag ourselves through the embers until mudslimes show up and murder us all
>>25862673 >I'm not a useful or intelligent person. As long as you suck dick, be nice, and don't fuck around no one cares. >I'm cruel-spirited and avoidant. Don't be a bitch and no one cares. >Probably won't cuck him. >probably That's some shit though, don't be a fucking cunt.
Why would any woman give a shit? MGTOWS are incredibly misogynists, why would any woman want to spend their lives tied down to that? It's not as if they can't find a non-misogynist man to marry, pre-nup or no. Better alone than in evil company.
>>25863588 >They literally blame woman for all of societies' ills. No they don't, they blame women for things women factually do. Women happen to cause a lot of shit because you know, they're the biggest influence in our society.
>>25863717 Let me quote some posts for you verbatim:
"I kind of find it hard to care. I've been rejected. It sucks. I've had shitty relationships. That sucks, too. When dudes fuck me over, I don't blame society or the entire population of men. I blamed myself for picking a bad one, tried to fix myself, and then moved on. If they don't want to date women, they don't have to. I'm not going to argue with them about the benefits of a relationship or try to tell them not all women are like whatever they insist we're all like. It's not my job. It's not just women who play games and not answer texts and mooch off their dates and say "yes" to dates, but then flake. I've had all these things happen. Instead of wondering why men do things like that, I realized people do stuff like that. It's common sense."
"I think this can go hang out with all the doomsday articles about how "hookup culture" is letting young women down and driving them out of the dating game, and nobody has relationships anymore, and OMG EVERYBODY PANIC. It's fucking journalists needing to fill pages with "concerning trends" they just came up with while getting their coffee and worrying about their deadlines. The planet at large is doing just fine, and the incredibly vast majority of people who wish to have relationships... go and have relationships. If someone (of whatever gender) doesn't want to date, that's a problem or non-problem that typically affects them and them alone. No real concern to the rest of the planet. And if men who feel persecuted by OMG EVIL feminism refrain from dating, I'll be exceedingly hard pressed to be upset about that."
The only people that think this is even slightly important are anti-feminist men that think their whining on blogs and boards like /r9k/ are even remotely important or have even the slightest impact on the world. Delusions of grandeur.
>>25863752 >people who wish to have relationships... go and have relationships But those relationships are mostly shit because of the culture, and birth rates are plummeting. >almost half of marriages end in divorce >more than half of spouses of either gender are cheating >whores make for unhappy wives and higher rates of divorce >divorce courts always favor women >single mother homes make shit homes for kids but bastard kids are nearing half the fucking births >demographic problems across the western world Things don't have to utterly collapse for them to be shit, we shouldn't wait for doomsday to change bad behavior.
>demographic problems across the western world This is economics. The wealthier a nation, the lower the birthrate. Immigration solves this problem and either way, the population should level off at 9b or so by 20~60 I think it was.
>more than half of spouses of either gender are cheating >whores make for unhappy wives and higher rates of divorce
It is more common for men compared to women to engage in extradyadic relationships. The National Health and Social Life Survey found that 4% of married men, 16% of cohabiting men, and 37% of dating men engaged in acts of sexual infidelity compared to 1% of married women, 8% of cohabiting women, and 17% of women in dating relationships. These differences have been generally thought due to evolutionary pressures that motivate men towards sexual opportunity and women towards commitment to one partner. In addition, recent research finds that differences in gender may possibly be explained by other mechanisms including power and sensations seeking. For example, one study found that some women in more financially independent and higher positions of power, were also more likely to be more unfaithful to their partners. In another study, when the tendency to sensation seek (i.e., engage in risky behaviours) was controlled for, there were no gender differences in the likelihood to being unfaithful. These findings suggest there may be various factors that might influence the likelihood of some individuals to engage in extradyadic relationships, and that such factors may account for observed gender differences beyond actual gender and evolutionary pressures associated with each.
>>25863954 >Immigration solves this problem and either way No it doesn't it brings its own demographic issues since they need welfare etc. Who's going to support the old fucks with crazy amounts of benefis, immigrants with shitty jobs who are also on the dole? >more than half of spouses of either gender are cheating I got my info here, where'd you get yours? Provide sources when you quote please magazine.foxnews.com/love/cheating-statistics-do-men-cheat-more-women >was controlled for, there were no gender differences in the likelihood to being unfaithful. Why do I care? I wasn't singling out either gender with the cheating line. >whores make for unhappy wives and higher rates of divorce Here's my source for that: www.medicaldaily.com/ignorance-bliss-when-it-comes-marriage-fewer-partners-youve-had-more-likely-your-298752
>single mother homes make shit homes for kids www.apa.org/helpcenter/single-parent.aspx prospect.org/article/consequences-single-motherhood >All of the numbers reported in the tables shown have been adjusted for differences in family background characteristics such as race, parents' education, family size, and place of residence. Thus the parents socioeconomic status cannot explain why children from one-parent families are doing worse.
>but bastard kids are nearing half the fucking births >Source? www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/unmarried-childbearing.htm
>>25864146 >No it doesn't it brings its own demographic issues since they need welfare etc. Who's going to support the old fucks with crazy amounts of benefis, immigrants with shitty jobs who are also on the dole?
Use incognito if you're blocked behind the paywall. http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21631076-rather-lot-according-new-piece-research-what-have-immigrants-ever-done-us
>Wikipedia was the source, the citations can be found in the text. inb4 not a valid source, you're quoting foxnews.
inb4 Huffpo isn't a valid source, come on. We're both quoting suspect articles here.
Children from single parent homes DO struggle. And they are at greater risk for susbtance and alcohol abuse than those from two parent homes however with the right social supports and quality parenting, they turn out fine. In fact this is true for 75% of them.
>but bastard kids are nearing half the fucking births >Source? www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/unmarried-childbearing.htm
The reason I let you go with the single mother issue is that, yes, children from single-parent homes do face challenges that children in dual-parent homes don't. However are there are any social issues related specifically to the rise in illegitimate children?
>>25864697 >http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21631076-rather-lot-according-new-piece-research-what-have-immigrants-ever-done-us I don't live in britain, I don't experience tons of european immigration. None of this changes the fact that immigrants don't make enough to hold up the aging and increase the competition for wages and jobs when you have native jobless. >Wikipedia was the source, the citations can be found in the text. inb4 not a valid source, you're quoting foxnews. Okay stats seem solid, tbf the foxnews site is working off of a yourtango survey. Found another here, still lower instance than the survey and supports the wikis information (probably uses some of the same sources). psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/03/22/how-common-is-cheating-infidelity-really/
>Counter: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/21/more-sexual-partners-unhappy-marriage_n_5698440.html It says that more sexual partners leads to an unhappy marriage, how is this a counter?
>however with the right social supports and quality parenting, they turn out fine. In fact this is true for 75% of them. >However are there are any social issues related specifically to the rise in illegitimate children? It's still a worse situation, like I said before why not change bad behavior even if it doesn't create utter collapse? They have increased chance for shittier lives and there's more and more of em every decade, maybe the country won't collapse because of it but it's a shit situation.
>http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/07/single_motherhood_worse_for_children_.html Interesting read I grabbed pic related from it.
>>25864930 The effects on Labour markets due to immigration can be found here: http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/labour-market-effects-immigration
It can't be helped. Sad to see but, imo, pulling women out of workforce, education etc and forcing them to lead dull lives and become stupid specifically so they don't cheat looks like cutting off one's nose to spite the face.
>It's still a worse situation, like I said before why not change bad behavior even if it doesn't create utter collapse? They have increased chance for shittier lives and there's more and more of em every decade, maybe the country won't collapse because of it but it's a shit situation.
There are lots of reasons for divorce such as domestic violence, financial ills, infidelity etc. It's not so simple. In my view, one of the best ways we can aid in reducing the birthrate of illegitimate children is widely accessible and affordable birth-control for both genders. What say you to this?
There are too many instances of domestic violence, neglect etc to make the case that single mother-hood is flat out bad and should go. Too often it really is the best decision for the children, especially when you consider the 75% stat.
>>25865314 >. Sad to see but, imo, pulling women out of workforce, education etc and forcing them to lead dull lives and become stupid specifically so they don't cheat looks like cutting off one's nose to spite the face.
The reason I argue this is because as you no doubt know, we live in a capitalist world and soooo many of the things that put dual-parent households above those of single mothers are tied to the fact that there are multiple income sources. Just divesting families of that is absurd, not to mention the other negative effects to wider social welfare.
>womeneconomics, I feel the same way as you but please give it a try.
>>25865314 >In my view, one of the best ways we can aid in reducing the birthrate of illegitimate children is widely accessible and affordable birth-control for both genders. There's already cheap birth control, the problem is more likely relationships not working out or people being trashy and making poor decisions. >There are too many instances of domestic violence >to make the case that single mother-hood is flat out bad and should go >Too often it really is the best decision for the children I'm not trying to ban single mother hood I'm saying it's shit and most likely the result of poor decision making and poor partner choice, the graph shows the steady increase of bastard kids from the cdc study (which ones belong to single parent homes idk). I don't think there's an epidemic of super expensive birth control or domestic violence that can explain the steady rise in bastard kids and single parentage. >especially when you consider the 75% stat. It just says they suffered no major pathologies it's not a real glowing review, and it's still on average worse than two parent homes. I bet if you could survey kids from the 75% only they'd say they wish their dad played a bigger role in their life.
>Sad to see but, imo, pulling women out of workforce, education etc and forcing them to lead dull lives and become stupid specifically so they don't cheat Or just date women less likely to cheat? No need to force anyone to do anything. >The reason I argue this is because as you no doubt know, we live in a capitalist world and soooo many of the things that put dual-parent households The link I provided before controlled for socioeconomic factors and single parents still did worse, just think about it you need to spend time with kids to raise them properly, two parents can better tackle a childs problems and needs.
I don't want to get married since it's a huge financial waste, implies you don't trust your partner, puts undue pressure on the relationship, is basically an extortion racket on men in the US and acquiesces to government incentives, religious traditions, familial judgement, societal pressure and gender roles.
>>25865682 Please get some sleep and thank you for the conversation. Even if we disagree on some things, it was nice to have a respectful and thoughtful discussion without shit-flinging on 4chan, of all places.
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