>>25715630 Do you guys really have a deep feeling that you should be a woman? Or have you just always been miserable, and have unconventional sexual fetishes because of your upbringing, and decide to try this, then stick to your guns because you can't admit to yourself you were wrong?
>>25715818 Because they're insane as shit. On top of those annoying as shit threads about them 24/7 either started by actual ones, or just fetishists. Either way it's annoying and you all have a board. >>>/lgbt/
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I don't understand it. It makes me have crazy theories. What would be so unbearable about living life as a man? Even if you wanted to dress up like a girl, why would you get surgery and take hormones? It must just be like an impulse tattoo. You go through a funk and think oh I'll reinvent myself. It's fun while it's new, but then you're left in no man's land. Not quite a woman, not quite a man. Sexually useless to everyone except other sexually mutilated insane people. I pity you all. Maybe I'm wrong because I truly don't understand any part of this whole thing.
>>25715880 my parents were controlling and deprived me of a childhood by alienating me from other kids and making sure i developed no social skills.
i first "pretended" to be a girl when i was like 10 though.
>>25715923 i've been depressed for roughly 8 years. i have brief moments of happiness, like if i eat something good once a year. starting to transition made me happy at first but after a week or so i went back to feeling awful.
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>>25715830 Just life 'n' stuff. I get anxiety pretty easily so I isolate myself a lot but then when I'm by myself I become overly critical without anyone their to distract me and then I get sad over stupid stuff. The usual. Thank you for your concern though anon :) hbu? What's up in your life? >>25715833 Yeah it's crazy right?!
>>25716081 isolation is when i'm happiest. it's when i'm around others that i get overly self-critical. people are funny, i guess.
i'm tired of being at work and school. where there are other people and i feel awkward and out of place constantly. i think i'm gonna suicide soon. maybe after my next paycheck when i have money to do it somehow
>>25716112 yes? probably no because distance. but i'd probably date you if you lived here. or could move me to where you are. everyone has good qualities about them and i could love you for yours maybe.
>>25716154 it's depressing how much i relate to you then i realize you define yourself by being trans and that's why you're getting all these replies and it makes me sick to my stomach because this wouldn't be the case if you just said male
it's like i made a friend in my mind and now they left me
>>25716108 >isolation is when i'm happiest. it's when i'm around others that i get overly self-critical. people are funny, i guess Huh... I do that too now that I think about it. Maybe it's just not as bad as it is when I'm by myself... Actually no... It's pretty even whether I'm alone or with people, the over analyzing and overly critical stuff is always kinda there. I feel you anon, it sucks. Good luck >i feel awkward and out of place constantly God tell me about it, like a square peg in a round hole >i think i'm gonna suicide soon Don't do it anon you'll regret it at the last second and then it'll be too late. You've already gone through all of the trouble of coming out and transitioning. You might as well at least try and enjoy yourself. The way I look at it is we're all gonna die eventually, so why speed up the process. It's like leaving in the middle of the movie at the theater. Even if it sucks right now, it'll get better. It's a ride, so just try and enjoy it I guess. But people like us are our own worst enemies so I understand. I still wouldn't kill myself if I were you though anon, you'll be ok. Just keep on keepin on
YES I'M A GIRL NO I'M NOT A MAN DESPITE EVERY CELL IN MY BODY EXCEPT A FEW SPERM CELLS BEING MALE
RESPECT MY TRUTH, OR YOU'RE OPPRESSING ME
I WANT TO GET REASSIGNMENT SURGERY AND HORMONES, DESPITE SUICIDE RATES BEING EXACTLY THE SAME BEFORE AND AFTER TRANSITION.
WHAT? NO WAY SHOULD MEDICATION THAT HAS BEEN SHOWN TO RELIABLY TREAT GENDER DYSPHORIA, THAT'S OPPRESSIVE.
Daily reminder that "respecting" the truth of a transgender person is like "respecting" the truth of a paranoid schizophrenic, and supporting them in their belief that their being stalked and that they are gods.
If you truly want to help trans people, support the research and development of several different medications that are promising in their treatment of gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, and should be treated with therapy and medication, not self mutilation.
OP I encourage you to seek actual treatment, not Yes men who will call you brave for even feeling like a girl in the least bit.
You are mentally ill, there's nothing wrong with that, but you need actual help. There have been two anons on here who have said they regretted transitioning so much, and knew it was a mistake, one eventually took his own life. Well, he said he was going to kill himself, then never posted again. They both posted timestamped photos of their hormones and everything.
>>25716349 I dont think it matter, so it should matter to other people if i was born male or female. you wouldnt know. And im not a special snow flake, i disagree with gender. Dont compare me to some tumblr-tard that seeks attention. I also dont think that me disagreeing with gender is your problem either.
>>25716435 Maybe, you should probably give it a try. Or you could get help, actually medical help and not just lop off your dick. >>25716432 >not some tumblr-tard >i disagree with gender >i'm not a special snowflake >doesn't want attention >posts about being nonexistent gender ????
>>25716469 >we live in a world where calling a man a man is considered being an asshole >we live in a world where respecting the delusions of a mentally ill human being is more important than actually helping them treat their mental illness
>>25716435 Hey OP, why don't you see: >>25716305 There are legitimate mental health services out there that can get you on medications that will reduce/eliminate your dysphoria. It is a mental illness/disorder, and it can help you. Suicide rates are the same before and after transitioning. You will not be different if you transition. You need legitimate mental help, I'm trying to help you. You need to go see a counselor that doesn't support self mutilation.
Whatever happened to people accepting themselves for who they are? Why can't we just have feminine men and masculine women? Being trans is a mental illness I've never been able to understand why people enable, and it scares me when I think about what humanity might think is acceptable in the future.
>>25716467 I dont want to make this person feel like they are alone and that there are nothing but negative assholes here. If youre here to make me feel bad about something ive already prepared myself to be made fun of for than i gotta say I really dont care what people think about me. so like go ahead i guess i am a special snowflake faggot but at least i have morals.
>>25716589 >so like go ahead i guess You have to be trolling, or you're straight from tumblr.
You are trying to contribute to his suicide. Suicide rates are identical before and after transition, hormones included. The body is not the problem, the mind is, and without proper treatment to the mind, nothing can improve his situation.
You are mainlining delusion, and encouraging others to do so as well.
>>25716628 trust me i know this shit, I know lots of trans people, these kinds of things are a long process and often under the supervision of a psychiatrist and gender therapist . Im not trolling, I dont have tumblr, Im lurking the boards and found something that interested me so i replied, She needs help, and if she wants it she needs to know that there are resources out there that can assist her through this time of mental instability. She just has to look for it.
>>25716658 There are several that had their research and development shut down, despite promising results in reducing the feeling of being a different sex than your biological one. I had 4 links saved in a notepad document I can't seem to find, give me a bit and I'll find them. It's become so taboo to question whether someone actually is a girl just because they say they are that research/funding were cut. The main reason is suspected to be that transitional surgery/hormones are such a cash cow that it would be a stupid idea to find more efficient treatments. >>25716708 You mean he. I don't call my schizophrenic uncle god because he believes he is one. I know this shit too, my father has worked in psychiatry for nearly 40 years. All the research suggests that it would be objectively better to find a medication that suppresses the urge rather than encouraging self mutilation. Hell, everywhere but California, therapy is focused on accepting the sex that you ARE, because it's proven to keep suicide rates marginally lower than encouraging transition. There are many, many reports out there about the massive regret post-op trans people feel.
Stop encouraging self mutilation which will lead to a near certain suicide attempt. Let go of political correctness. This man needs help.
I couldn't find the 4 links, but here is the website I got them from, they are in there somewhere.
I used to support transitioning and transgenders just as much as you, but after reading through this and studying suicide rates in GID sufferers, it became increasingly evident that this is not a mental illness you should just accept and self mutilate for. It offers no benefits to do so, and many disadvantages. It is abhorrent that this mental illness has been associated with homosexuality for so long (something that can't be treated and is not inherently encouraging of self harm).
Please, I urge anyone who believes in supporting transition to do their own research, starting here.
OP, please read through this as well. There are professionals out there willing to help you without encouraging self mutilation, infertility, and other irreversible damages to your body.
To encourage transition is to encourage suicide- The rate of suicide attempts is higher for trans people than ANY other group throughout history, enslaved folks, people in Nazi work camps, and so on. What's more, that suicide rate remains IDENTICAL after transition and hormonal treatment. It's clear that transitioning is not the best option. Encouraging it is encouraging this alarmingly high suicide rate. Please, keep an open mind and research. I respect you wanting to help, but this is not the way to do it.
What the fuck has happened to 4chan? Traps used to be part of our culture. We were probably THE most accepting place on the internet. Linetrap, darktrap, etc. Now we're some pseudo-stormfront posting hate and garbage? Come on, faggots.
>>25716990 Some of these are practically opinion pieces, some of these are genuine medical research. Transitioning is of course not going to help someone if everyone they ever encounter either treats them like a man or like a sexual curio. The process itself, though, there's nothing wrong with that if it's undertaken after some serious talking with a medical professional to make sure one IS actually trans.
>>25716896 You may have made a lot of exercices that made your butt big along with everything else, or maybe it's just genetics. But why complain though? Both males and females are sexually attracted to big bootys
If you read through these you'll see that actual transitional surgery should not be encouraged. If therapy to treat GID does not work, and no experimental medication can be provided, it is found to be best (in adults, early hormone treatment can render teenagers infertile as their biological sex and statistically raises suicide rates for those treated too young) to treat with the "desired" sex's hormone, but no surgery. This way, the effects can be reversed if desired. It is thought that the main issue in severe GID sufferers is that their brain lacks/requires an excess of the opposite sex's hormones. Thus, treatment using those hormones can bring balance, and they can choose whatever gender identity they wish, with a high amount actually still choosing to identify as their biological sex.
It is politically incorrect to say all of this and speak the truth though. Please, consider this and do your own research as well. There are thousands of studies out there confirming that reassignment surgery is almost UNIVERSALLY poor idea.
>>25717146 What they are is pretty much subjective. Their opinion on what they are is just as valid as yours, which is just as valid as that of someone who sees them as women, and that of someone who basically sees them as weird twink fucktoys. The problem is that some of those opinions are dickish and don't make even an attempt to understand how traps feel, which, if not influencing your opinion, should at least make some difference to how you interact with them.
>>25717160 Hormone therapy has been a major technique for transitioning for years, though, and I fully support the use of it over anything else. On the other hand, if people want to transition surgically, they should be allowed to, as long as they're aware of the risks.
>>25717232 My issue is that whenever someone "comes out" as trans, they are pushed by every single person to get the surgery. Surgery is never a good idea. Sure they should have the option if they want, but no one should EVER encourage them to get it. There is no mistake bigger or more irreversible than mutilating your body permanently. It's despicable that it is encouraged by anyone, and should be recommended the same way that a nose job or a tummy tuck would be- as solely cosmetic surgeries. It is NOT the be all end all to treatment. There are always better options.
Op why would you want to be female >sit in your own blood every month for about a week not to mention that shit pain too >monitor weight or youre a landwhale >if you're ugly have to spend hours every day on makeup and hair else good luck getting any guy irl to even approach you >Sex is always a problem because either youre worried about pregnancy or being in pain due to being nervous >instantly devalued after you get laid >constantly remove all body hair (this is shit if you are higher test girl)
Its really not that great unless youre a thin, hairless, white qt
Embrace your dick, it bring you no problems and lots of pleasure unlike the roastie Good luck competing with 9/10 real females op, i sure cant :^)
>>25716970 >http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120 does not support your claim that treatment does not work. just states aggregate rates of lifetime suicides
>http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120 pretty much some dude ranting about how he doesn't "get" trannies. next time post a study. >their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. obviously? this says nothing useful and is akin to saying >after tutoring, retarded children still score worse on tests than normal children, therefore tutoring is useless
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21364939 typical reference. hardly even worth attacking at this point because it's so frequently misinterpreted. >Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Same problem as the last one. Are you the same retard who posts this same study all over the place after getting rekt each time? >Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism nobody thinks it's perfect, but see >although alleviating gender dysphoria, so it does work to some extent. thanks
>http://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jul/30/health.mentalhealth again, not a study, doesn't link to a study, doesn't even give the title of a study. I tried searching for what they reference but there is no mention of it beyond that link and one on sexchangeregret.com which links there. post the study and i'll look at it
>>25717160 >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25691225 >This study indicates that sex hormones induce MetS in a relatively low proportion of healthy GD individuals and especially during the first year of hormonal treatment. Most importantly, concomitant psychiatric problems are associated with considerably greater MetS prevalence in hormone treated GD individuals. what? this is irrelevant.
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24330520 >The differences observed between MtF and FtM individuals suggest that body-related uneasiness associated with GD may be effectively diminished with the administration of CHT even without the use of genital surgery for MtF clients. so hormone therapy works. remind me why you are arguing against it while providing evidence for it?
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25401972 >This study indicates that before genital SRS, about half of gender-dysphoric subjects perceived their sexual life as "poor/dissatisfied" or "very poor/very dissatisfied." Moreover, receiving hormonal treatment, low negative feelings, and having a partner are related to a better subjective perception of sexual QoL.
Same thing. why are you providing evidence against your argument?
Honest question to everyone being all "you aren't a woman, you never will be, don't go cutting your dick off" etc... does it really affect you in any way?
Some come off as if you all are trying to give this heartfelt plea to save their life and care about their well-being, but then react by being annoyed, offended, or worse when they tell you it doesn't work that way. Why get offended by how someone decides to live their life?
Almost everyone here lives their life as some kind of imperfect human, some hiding away in a dark room for weeks, months or years at a time, some rejecting society entirely as some kind of fucked up game that is rigged against them, and almost everyone fervently turns away any advice on how to improve themselves, on how to live a normal happy life and get offended at the fact that the advice was given by someone who might have their shit together but has no clue why you are in the position you are in your life.
What makes you turning down and being offended by advice from someone who doesn't understand your life, yet you make the same statements towards someone who is in a situation in their life you will never understand and then flip the fuck out when they tell you that you are wrong...?
How much do you value the opinion of someone who believes them self to be Jesus reincarnated. The answer, I hope, is not at all. It's the same thing with trans people. You will never the thing you wish yourself to be. Get over it.
>>25717333 You literally did not >rekt me in anyway. You just looked at each one and summarized it to match your pretty little world view. Any rational person would look at these SCIENTIFIC STUDIES done using the SCIENTIFIC METHOD. You also did not respond to my links showing that suicide rates are the same before and after reassignment surgery.
You seem to misunderstand this. The idea that you should cut off your genitals and alter your body for costs exceeding $100k, putting you in debt for a very long time, just to >relieve some gender dysphoria is absurd, when EVERY OTHER method has proven more effective.
I used to think like you, but I read through each of these with an open mind and did my own genuine research. I didn't go in looking for the answer to be surgery doesn't work, I actually held your beliefs. You are so heavily biased that I could put any study or article in front of you and it would mean nothing.
Again, it's just like how I could present my uncle (who is schizophrenic) with evidence that he is not God. But he would always deny it, and find himself as God somewhere in there, because it's based on FEELING. It is a mental illness, and a mental disorder. It was removed from the class 5 DSM because of the stigma attached, not because it isn't a genuine mental disorder.
The fact that you encourage other people to go down irreversible paths leading to equal (or higher according to one of the studies I linked) suicide rates to appease your own sense of being a moral/decent person is sickening. Or perhaps it is because you are trans/"agender". You too have some form of GID, a mental illness, and you cannot see it rationally.
Despite all of this, even if you were 100% right, there is a critical flaw in the your thinking: reality. Gender reassignment surgery will never change your cells. A trans "girl" will never, ever be a girl. They simply cannot. In objective reality, you are your biological sex.
>>25717404 Like I said, hormonal treatment is more than welcome by me. I am against permanent, irreversible decisions based on mental illness. Allowing a child/early teenager to receive blockers/hormones is the same as reassignment surgery, as the effects will be irreversible. You will become infertile. If your GID is dulled as you grow older, and you identify more as your biological sex, you are fucked.
If people want to take hormones, so be it, but they shouldn't be deciding whether or not they will have kids, what gender they will always want to be (since they do have dysphoria, it can shift later on) before they can choose to smoke a cigarette.
It's not evidence against my argument, it's evidence for the idea that self mutilation is an abhorrent option and should never be encouraged. >>25717408 It's not about it effecting me. It's like if a gay person wants to get AIDS (bugchasing). I don't give a shit. They can do whatever they want. But I don't think they should be allowed to make that irreversible, life changing decision while they are so young, and they should never be encouraged to do so.
I haven't flipped out, I have calmly been providing evidence as to why it's an awful idea to encourage these horrible procedures. I don't care if they do it, but don't encourage permanent damage while patients are still young/learning about themselves, and DEMONSTRABLY very mentally ill.
>>25715630 Honestly anon, if you want to find peace in being trans then i suggest moving to South East Asia. The Trans culture there is EXTREMELY DIFFERENT to what you will find in most western countries, the locals accept them and nobody gives a fuck. You are just seen as another girl and not some freak. You have your own culture and own sayings.
If you are up for moving to thailand or the philippines i highly suggest it if you can't find true happiness where you are now.
>>25717517 I explained the evidence, and I explained the flaws in your thinking as well as the significance of each study, and outlined my views well.
Instead of continuing to argue, you have shut down and retreated, acting as though it's my problem when you are the one who is outnumbered by statistical studies 10:0.
Once again, hormonal treatments are fine. But they should be REQUIRED to wait for administration after a patient turns 18 and is sure they want to do it. Surgery should not be encouraged whatsoever, as it is permanent mutilation that is demonstrably not helpful whatsoever/harmful to the chances of suicide in a patients.
I don't see why it is such a controversial view to say people with mental illnesses shouldn't be encouraged to lop off body parts because it would make them happy at the time: they are mentally ill. They are not rational. They need help, not someone who will tell them to cut off their dick/invert their vagina.
I am simply trying to open some eyes and I hope at least one robot sees all the research I've put into this, changing my view from the one you are holding (pro trans surgery/early treatment) to the one I now hold. Facts don't care about your feelings, and encouraging delusion is patently unhealthy.
Once again, I presented facts and evidence. You present nothing except for your DSM 5 mental illness.
I do not hate trans people- I am trying to help them not fall for the trap of mutilating their own body, one that leads to regret for many, many patients. Anyone who speaks out as regretting treatment is instantly labeled a non-PC enemy and thrown under the bus.
Please, keep an open mind. I have. You are being willfully negligent and more hateful than I have been at all.
>>25717525 You are probably one of the calmest I've run into, and at least you understand that hormones aren't a death sentence. Not sure about your opinion of early transitioners because the argument of "irreversible damage" could be made the same for the affects of their body's natural hormones. The longer you wait to start, the more damage the wrong hormones will have.
Waiting until 19 or 20 isn't horrible, but starting blockers at 13 or 14 to halt the effects of the hormones your body produces isn't irreversible and will have much better results for those that do transition. Waiting until mid 20s or later and you are kind of screwed, growth platers are fusing, bone structure is not going to be changing except in small areas where extremely expensive surgery is the only option.
Infertility can happen from doing HRT, but it often takes years to be completely irreversible. Also, at least for transwomen, sperm banking is possible so on going fertility isn't even a requirement to reproduce if they decide to in the future.
>>25717684 It's a form of pause. Likely blockers with be administered and the child would be living as their identified gender as kind of a test that dysphoria is relieved. If there is improvement in the child then HRT would be administered instead. It's also no like they just go to the pharmacy and get hormones. The whole time the child is seeing specialists to make sure the child's mental and physical state are not be adversely affected.
>>25717652 >the argument of "irreversible damage" could be made the same for the affects of their body's natural hormones. The longer you wait to start, the more damage the wrong hormones will have. Fair enough, but the way I and science sees it, is that it's not the "wrong" hormone. It is the natural and biological hormone of your natural and biological sex. The urge to have the opposite sex's hormone is a manifestation of mental illness. It should be a person's choice to take whatever hormones they wish- but it is best they wait until they have experienced some talk therapy, and are 18 years old. If you can't smoke, and you can't vote, I don't think it's responsible to choose whether or not you are sure you don't want biological kids 20 years down the line.
I understand the reasons for early HRT, but I do not support it simply because I don't feel young (and mentally ill) minds are able to make such a long term decision. Although it can take some time before infertility results, once one starts hormones, you are encouraged to stay on them by everyone you know, including your doctor. There are many horror stories of people who decided they made a mistake but were pressured into still taking hormones to the point of infertility. I understand it, I couldn't imagine the pressure of coming out as trans, then after all the therapy and hormone injections, deciding you don't want to continue. Everyone around you might be resentful.
>all Trans people i've encountered are 100x more pretentious, offended and unkind than they were before beginning transitioning I'd rather a QT Nice boyfriendo than an angry, pretentious Douchetranny mtf GF Be different pls
>>25717760 I did in my defense of your baseless attacks here: >>25717449 >>25717525 Many of these links demonstrate the positive effects of HRT- once again, no problem with that so long as the person is of age and fair mental state.
Surgery is not mentioned in those, but in the link I provided here: >>25716970 Surgery is a permanent, expensive decision that is the end goal for many trans people, when it should not be. Suicide rates are exactly the same (and hinted in one of the articles I linked to be slightly higher) after reassignment.
I wouldn't even call surgery a last ditch effort- I would call it a cosmetic option that the patient can decide to get once they are of age, but it should never, EVER be encouraged. It is far more permanent than any HRT and is FAR, FAR less effective.
>>25717778 Hypothetical question, but if there was scientific, testable proof of physical/chemical brain differences (whether a result of genetics or checmical/hormone influence in utero) that would indicate is not simply a mental illness that can be corrected by years of therapy and mood managing drugs and actually greatly helped by both hormone replacement and physical body modification to the features they desire, would your opinion change?
I know I've seen studies on the subject but I'm not even close to knowledgeable to claim them to be entirely true, testable, nor accepted.
>>25717887 No, my opinion would not change. That is actually the situation we are already in. There are measurable differences in brain chemistry of a GID sufferer. Talk therapy has proven to be effective should treatment start, young however, and even if the therapy does not work out, it helps GID sufferers cope. I still believe HRT should be a hard-18 treatment. Decisions should not be made younger, when they can impact not just their immediate life, but their life decades down the line. If I did some of the shit I wanted to when I was 13, 14, 15, I would have fucked up my life, and I had no symptoms of mental illness at the time like GID sufferers do. The bottom line is that mental disorders affect rational thinking, and although a GID sufferer may want transition/hormones to the opposite gender badly at 13, 14, 15, and so on, it would be best to wait for them to make such a big decision. HRT should be the end game, after therapy, if coping mechanisms can be developed, or aren't strong enough, then there should always be an anticipation of HRT when the patient turns 18. However, to encourage actual body modification, I am against. I don't care if people want to get it when they are 18, 19, or whatever age, it's their choice. But to encourage a scientifically proven ineffective procedure is irresponsible. There is nothing morally wrong about altering your body, but there is something morally wrong about encouraging someone who is young and impressionable to make permanent changes to their body before they are even sure of who or what they truly want to be. If they turn 18, and have the means, and haven't been pushed towards it by literally everyone in society, than I couldn't care less if they chose to get gender reassignment surgery.
>>25716279 Im sorry, but you will not be considered a girl by most straight men. As much as i support you in doing whatever the fuck you want, i cannot see you as a woman, and frankly the thought of sex with you is not alluring regardless of your looks. Its the way it is sadly.
>>25717903 As I said, I'm not arguing against the use of HRT, I don't see why you're so hung up on that. I will do as you wish though, since you insist and I would like to help you open your eyes at least a bit.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21364939 >Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts and psychiatric inpatient care > sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism The point I'm making here is not that sex-reassignment surgery is ineffective at relieving gender dysphoria, it's that it's ineffective at reducing suicide rates. The procedure is so expensive, permanent, and life changing, that it's hard to say it's worth encouraging every GID sufferer to mutilate their body do to nothing other than relieve dysphoria. It doesn't change the fact that they are mentally ill in the first place, causing their high suicide rate. Even the researchers suggest alternative research into treating GID.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24330520 >body-related uneasiness associated with GD may be effectively diminished with the administration of CHT even without the use of genital surgery The point I'm making here is that hormonal treatments are just as effective, if not more, than reassignment surgery, rendering it unnecessary, especially considering it has no effect on suicide rates unlike HRT and talk therapy.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25691225 >concomitant psychiatric problems are associated with considerably greater MetS prevalence in hormone treated GD individuals. The point I'm making here is that HRT should still be closely monitored and age restricted because of the great amount of side effects. Not really a condemnation of HRT, just a reminder that it is more than a miracle treatment.
>>25718145 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25401972 >about half of gender-dysphoric subjects perceived their sexual life as "poor/dissatisfied" or "very poor/very dissatisfied." Moreover, receiving hormonal treatment, low negative feelings, and having a partner are related to a better subjective perception of sexual QoL. This is just reinforcing my previous point about the merits of HRT, and that because of their less permanent nature, are a far preferable option.
>>25718145 >Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts and psychiatric inpatient care THAN THE GENERAL POPULATION FTFY >sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism agreed. however this still does not say that it is ineffective, merely not perfect, which everyone accepts. >it's that it's ineffective at reducing suicide rates. not supported by the evidence. see >>25717333 where this exact point is addressed.
>The point I'm making here is that hormonal treatments are just as effective, if not more, than reassignment surgery, rendering it unnecessary, unsupported by the evidence you provided.
>considering it has no effect on suicide rates unlike HRT and talk therapy. 
>just a reminder that it is [less] than a miracle treatment. of course. nobody argues against this
>This is just reinforcing my previous point about the merits of HRT this is supported, the rest is your opinion
Generally it's the vast majority of society telling them to live with it, to get therapy and push the feels back and back, try to cover them up, etc (as can pretty much be seen in this thread). Yet it doesn't change how the child feels. The drugs they are given, the therapy they go to, the harassment they endure for not fitting in, even though almost everyone in their life is telling that it will get better if they just do as they are told. Children aren't an dumb as it seem you believe they are.
It's also not like they can just walk into a doctors office and immediately begin transitioning. There are years of therapy, or RLE, and difficult times and opposing views bombarding them, screaming at them that they need to conform. Yet they continue on because it makes them feel whole for the first time in their life.
To me it just seems like cruelty to make a child go through that for almost a decade until some arbitrary age that society thinks makes them able to make a very personal decision. I think delaying surgical alteration until later, other than in extreme circumstances, makes sense (same as any other cosmetic surgery), but I don't see the harm in allowing blockers and HRT while being monitored by an endo and therapist at ages as early as the onset of puberty.
Knowing how I personally feel, how I felt when I was younger and having everyone in my life telling me to man up and deal with it sent me into 15 years of depression, self-hatred, and destruction of any self-esteem I may have had. Now that I'm old enough that society believes I'm able to make a sound decision, even on HRT or potentially surgery, my mental state is in complete shambles because of how I forced myself to ignore my own feelings for so long. Now not only do I have transition and all the issues of being a later transitioner, but I have all the other issues to go along with it. I can't help but think if I was given the opportunity to transition younger my self-esteem as bad.
>>25715746 Ive always felt that I'm a woman. I've never been a man. I know how to pretend andactlike one. I was a popular sports star and very successful sexually I hate those fetishists more than anyone.
>>25715765 I've had beta orbiters most of my life already. I usually take the lead anyways. I'm usually disfigured by men because most are pathetic and unworthy of my attention. His usually looked up to me.
>>25715880 I always hated abd shaved my body. I wanted to play with girl things. I wanted to be the mommy and stuff. I've known since I was young like five. It did start an entire life of self hatred when my parents punished me for wanting girl things
>>25715949 Dysphoria is hell. Its like you're horribly disfigured and in someone else's body. Like some horrible drug trip you never wake up from. You want to carve into your flesh so it's right. You feel like your being forced to crossdress. It eats away at your soul. I've begged for death and attempted many times. It never stops hurting.
>>25716540 What do you think I'm trying to do nigger? I just want to be myself. Its you faggots trying to force shit on me that isn't right.
>>25717278 I don't care about any negative or positive reasons. Im just a girl and shattered other people care doesn't matter. I just need to look and feel right for me. I don't care if I die. I just want to make it stop.
>>25718257 I never said sex-reassigned persons had an increased risk of suicide after surgery. I know they have a greater rate than the general population, and they have the precise same high rate before surgery (0.8 attempts per 100 GID sufferers). >ineffective at reducing suicide rates That is supported in this document, which you never addressed: http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf It is supported in this document, which you have been ignoring. > See document pages 8-14, study the tables closely and you'll find it. >the rest is your opinion No, it is your opinion, completely unsupported by evidence, unlike my opinions.
Keep encouraging young people to mutilate their bodies so that the doctors who profit off of it can buy a new boat. I am glad it helps you sleep at night.
Anyways, peruse the document I keep referring to, study and read pages 8-14 carefully because the tables can be a little confusing.
I am going to go to bed now, since it is 5:15 AM. I hope that all my hard work is not in vain, and that at least one robot sees all this and either changes their mind, or has refined their opinion. I just want to help the mentally ill in the most efficient, effective and freeing way possible, not restricting their future options.
Theres nothing "destructive" about a man wearing a dress. In fact, as a man, you should be pissed off that youre not socially ALLOWED to wear one. Do you have any idea how fucking comfortable these dress-wearing bitches are when its 90+ degrees and humid outside, and us men are forced to walk around wearing goddamn jeans and wool suits??
Society's rules were invented to oppress men, not women. Women barely matter, and they mattered even less when those rules were invented.
Dont let Bowie have died in vain...put on a fucking dress you faggot
>>25718612 Not really the hormones, more the culture. I am trans and trans culture pisses me of a lot of the time. It's this conceited kind of attitude, like "Oh, you used the wrong pronoun, so now I'm going to call you a transphobic douchebag. You should know as much about being transgender as me because if you don't then you are ignorant and a bigot". It's total bullshit.
Someone asks a genuine question, mucks up pronouns or terminology, it shouldn't be a reason to harp on them. Most people don't know this shit, they have no reason to know, but they are curious about it and ask a question and you rip off their head? C'mon, get over yourself. Sure, you've dealt with a lot of actual bigots before but it doesn't give you the right to treat everyone else like shit.
It gives transpeople a terrible reputation in society, and it ends up hurting us all because these SJW types feel they are martyrs for the cause and look for anything to be offended by. I feel like I have to go out of my way to be extra accepting and kind and forgiving to make up for it. Being called a faggot or an abomination to my face and calmly explaining it has nothing to do with sexuality, and that it isn't just some choice I made one day to be special, that I'm just trying to be happy and that if they have any questions about it I can answer as best I can. For some, their opinion is not going to change, but others sometimes are surprised that I'm not getting all offended and whiny and it changes their views a bit.
>>25717799 here >>25718711 Im quite accepting of trans stuff if it isnt really dumb When I say really dumb im talking identifying as inanimtate objects or pretending to be animal's and shit And despite this I find it a pain in the arse dealing with some people, the two trans people I talk to most often (ones mtf the others ftm) mtf used to be really nice, he wouldnt expect you to pay for stuff, he had a great sense of humor and was just nice to be around had /feels/ for this guy but as he's progressed with his transition he's turned really bitter, he takes offense at things that are clearly jokes (called a friends straight relationship gay, nobody cares, calls mtf's taste in tf2 unusual effects gay and I get half an hour of whining about how its not gay) mtf isnt even on hormones yet and I legit miss pre mtf them.
Ftm on the other end of the spectrum freaks out over nothing (mad at homeless friend because he critiqued her youtube videos) has anxiety attacks all the time, blames all her problems on everyone else and has an alternate personality she calls Kayla, prior to saying she was going ftm she was just shy and not insane She also has no plans to get any of the surgeries which im pretty certain is the end game goal for trans people Least mtf plans on going all the way
The most accepting people i've met regarding this stuff was An agender person who gave no shits about pronouns and another mtf who isnt bothered by pronouns, just doesnt like being called her old name so i'd say im somewhat experienced with trans stuff, where do you stand on the giving a damn spectrum OP?
>>25719248 >When I say really dumb im talking identifying as inanimtate objects or pretending to be animal's and shit Kind of an tumblr trans culture thing (tucute vs truscum if you want to look it up). Basically, those you would see as trans (mtf, ftm, some non-binary or bigender kind of deal) generally have a pretty big hatred for those with identities like animals, inanimate objects etc. It's seen mostly has an attention getting phase that they all grow out of at some point. I don't really know how they truly feel, but it always seems to come down to them identifying that way so they can claim they are oppressed and have an excuse to act really shitty. I don't know though, I mostly avoid them.
As for the two people you know, it's a combination of culture (as I said above) where the group think is to get offended at anything that doesn't match your understanding exactly. Constant vocabulary, pronoun, etc policing and then they get ostricized and see it as proof they they are right that society doesn't understands and hates them.
They probably do also get a lot of actual hate that is unprovoked, especially early on when they are trusting of others and someone, literally, spits in their face and calls them an abomination or freak. It's kind of a defense mechanism they put up, separate themselves from mainstream society, fall back into trans communities that have be over taken by feminist posturing and other bullshit (if it wasn't clear I think feminism, at least the academic/activist part of it, is a fucking travesty).
It just perpetuates a culture of "us vs them" and of not just being offended, but actively looking for things to be offended by to play up their own victim complex. My stance is that, yeah, society tends to treat transpeople like shit, so try to change is by explaining what it's about, be kind and acknowledge that for some people it's a huge change in their world view, and don't rip their head off because they take time to adjust.
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