Who /antinatalist/ here?
>lose any respect for someone who willingly had a child, especially if they're working class
this. if you're going to moan about the human race being terrible all the time just kill yourself, or just keep your thoughts to yourself and continue to live like everyone else.
Actively killing versus passively letting die.
Nothing moderate about it. Passive extintion is morally superior to active extinction. Simply stop reproducing until everyone is gone. No need to kill.
know that feel
as soon as someone says they want to get married and have kids i mentally trash them
with the way women are it's a fucking joke, the only people who want it are the ones who fell for the kike disney memes as a kid
Antinatalism merely assigns a negative value to birth and says nothing to those already alive. Letting someone who has already been born live is morally superior only because actively taking away someoned life without consent is immoral just as it is immoral to bring a being into existence without consent. The idea is it is better the have never existed rather than have existed at all. Once existence happens then to take them away from existence is just as immoral as bringing them forth.
The likelihood of living a "bad" life is much greater than living a "good" life in the sense that good and bad mean happiness or sadness in some abstracted sense of the words. If I thrust into being a third party on the evident presumptions that it will lead a shit or "bad" life I have committed an immoral act. (Not to mention the simpler idea of acting without consent mentioned before) Simply put, babies born will probably live a shit life as they grow and to stop babies from leading shit lives we stop having them.
if you have a bad life and you're alive, you can always work towards improving it or improving society
we only feel negative emotions because of our desire to live happy lives, so in my view life is inherently good
I'm a moderate antinatalist. Having a children is always a selfish act, but it's okay if you give them a proper upbringing that maximizes their happiness and potential. In other words, if you're not deficient in resources and can dedicate the time needed for the critical development of a human being.
The antinatalist takes it one step farther and says to that that in your words is a dissonance or a desire. Schopenhauer, the first proclaimed antinatist, was well read in Eastern philosophy and would have said, I believe, that desire is the cause of suffering. Something any Buddhist would say.
The antinatalist takes that premise that desire leads to suffering and says let us stop desire and suffering by not allowing another sentient being to experience desire and suffering.
At it's heart it is the belief that it is simply better to not have been born because we wouldn't have to struggle to try and have a good life anyways.
Not the guy you're talking to but
Isn't is also selfish to not allow another person to live just on the off chance they will have a bad life?
Surely it is better to give them a chance. Better to have loved and lost than to have not loved at all e.t.c
That's probably the ultimate point of contention between the natalist and the antinatist.
The "non-existent" know neither suffering or elation. They experience neither good nor bad and we say that that is preferable to a life that may be good but will probably be bad. We find it preferable to know neither good or bad rather than force something to play the game of life with a shit hand.
The "consent" argument only makes sense when we speak of those already alive. None of us consented to our births. Because the so called "non-existent" do not exist they have nothing. They can neither consent or revoke consent. Simply talking about "them" as a thing is nearly illogical in itself.
By that mode of thinking all of Buddhism and much of Eastern thinking is contradictory. We have disires as being who exist but we understand our desires are what lead us to suffering. So, to stop our own suffering we "desire to end desire" as you would say. That's a bit of a tangent into Eastern thought but I hoped it would show that that isn't as contradictory as it may seem.
Either way, it was a fun chat and I hope I at least presented antinatalism in a fair and honest light and answered your questions accurately. Lord knows I'm not a proper philosopher. Give the actual philosophers a read through if your still interested. I need to get at least a few hours of sleep here. Good night/day anon.
this is the literal reddit/normie response to antinatalism
we're hardwired to fear death and avoid it
"so just kill yourself"
we didnt ask to be born into a body that would stop us from doing it innately
and even if we could, you just prove the point of antinatalism if your only arguement is "end it"