Who /antinatalist/ here? >lose any respect for someone who

I'm gonna have 10 children to piss you off.

anybody who says they hate humans or anything along those lines and hasn't killed themselves is just an edgelord bullshitter

>>25638290
this. if you're going to moan about the human race being terrible all the time just kill yourself, or just keep your thoughts to yourself and continue to live like everyone else.

>>25638510
>>25638290
Significant difference between positive and passive extinction but I would expect the autistic to think in shades of grey.

>>25638977
>appealing to moderation when your logical inconsistencies are pointed out

>>25638993
Actively killing versus passively letting die.
Nothing moderate about it. Passive extintion is morally superior to active extinction. Simply stop reproducing until everyone is gone. No need to kill.

>>25638246
know that feel

as soon as someone says they want to get married and have kids i mentally trash them

with the way women are it's a fucking joke, the only people who want it are the ones who fell for the kike disney memes as a kid

>>25639032
so if letting somebody live is morally superior to killing them, it follows from there that it's better to live than to not live
great antinatalism there

>>25639062
Antinatalism merely assigns a negative value to birth and says nothing to those already alive. Letting someone who has already been born live is morally superior only because actively taking away someoned life without consent is immoral just as it is immoral to bring a being into existence without consent. The idea is it is better the have never existed rather than have existed at all. Once existence happens then to take them away from existence is just as immoral as bringing them forth.

>>25639143
so how is suicide not consensual?

>>25639187
Suicide, sure, do what you gotta do. I never wanted to be born but since I'm already here I may as well hang out awhile and see what all the hubbub is about.

>>25639231
So is living good or bad? If you don't want to die, how can you say that life is inherently bad and nobody should have children?

>>25639251
I can't speak for OP. Living is neither good or bad it just is. Bringing forth a third party into existence is bad.

>>25639304
>Bringing forth a third party into existence is bad.
Why? Wouldn't that also be neither good or bad?

>>25639347
The likelihood of living a "bad" life is much greater than living a "good" life in the sense that good and bad mean happiness or sadness in some abstracted sense of the words. If I thrust into being a third party on the evident presumptions that it will lead a shit or "bad" life I have committed an immoral act. (Not to mention the simpler idea of acting without consent mentioned before) Simply put, babies born will probably live a shit life as they grow and to stop babies from leading shit lives we stop having them.

>>25639428
if you have a bad life and you're alive, you can always work towards improving it or improving society
we only feel negative emotions because of our desire to live happy lives, so in my view life is inherently good

>>25638246
I'm a moderate antinatalist. Having a children is always a selfish act, but it's okay if you give them a proper upbringing that maximizes their happiness and potential. In other words, if you're not deficient in resources and can dedicate the time needed for the critical development of a human being.

>>25638246
Finally someone else who gets it. Funny how people tell others that not having kids is selfish when subjecting them to this world is literally the most selfish thing ever.

>tfw sterilizing myself with tranny hormones
jokes on you, jews, I didn't want to reproduce in the first place

>>25639471
The antinatalist takes it one step farther and says to that that in your words is a dissonance or a desire. Schopenhauer, the first proclaimed antinatist, was well read in Eastern philosophy and would have said, I believe, that desire is the cause of suffering. Something any Buddhist would say.

The antinatalist takes that premise that desire leads to suffering and says let us stop desire and suffering by not allowing another sentient being to experience desire and suffering.

At it's heart it is the belief that it is simply better to not have been born because we wouldn't have to struggle to try and have a good life anyways.

>>25639573
Why eliminate suffering if it's only replaced with non-existence?

>>25639573
Not the guy you're talking to but
Isn't is also selfish to not allow another person to live just on the off chance they will have a bad life?
Surely it is better to give them a chance. Better to have loved and lost than to have not loved at all e.t.c

>>25639632
That's probably the ultimate point of contention between the natalist and the antinatist.

The "non-existent" know neither suffering or elation. They experience neither good nor bad and we say that that is preferable to a life that may be good but will probably be bad. We find it preferable to know neither good or bad rather than force something to play the game of life with a shit hand.

>>25639721
but by favouring non-existence you're perceiving it as a good thing

>>25639675
The "consent" argument only makes sense when we speak of those already alive. None of us consented to our births. Because the so called "non-existent" do not exist they have nothing. They can neither consent or revoke consent. Simply talking about "them" as a thing is nearly illogical in itself.

The world is a corrupt cesspit though and unless there's change it's only going to get worse.
Why bring someone innocent into a world where they must slave away just to live?

>>25639757
Yes, we do. It is morally good to avoid putting a conscious thing into a "rigged game" if you will. That's what I meant by "We find it preferable.."

>>25639802
isn't it contradictory to desire a lack of desire?

>>25639853
By that mode of thinking all of Buddhism and much of Eastern thinking is contradictory. We have disires as being who exist but we understand our desires are what lead us to suffering. So, to stop our own suffering we "desire to end desire" as you would say. That's a bit of a tangent into Eastern thought but I hoped it would show that that isn't as contradictory as it may seem.

>>25639853
Either way, it was a fun chat and I hope I at least presented antinatalism in a fair and honest light and answered your questions accurately. Lord knows I'm not a proper philosopher. Give the actual philosophers a read through if your still interested. I need to get at least a few hours of sleep here. Good night/day anon.

>>25640051
thanks, I appreciate it man

>>25638290
>>25638510

this is the literal reddit/normie response to antinatalism

we're hardwired to fear death and avoid it


"so just kill yourself"

FUCKing redditors

we didnt ask to be born into a body that would stop us from doing it innately

and even if we could, you just prove the point of antinatalism if your only arguement is "end it"

>>25638246
I am familia but my ovaries make me still want kids. I would do my best to make their life pleasant. I don't get people that have kids and don't dedicate their lives to them.