or should I go into engineering like a huge normie? I would rather pick CS because I've always used computers, find them more familiar than anything else, and gives me the chance of working from home, but if it's saturated or fucked, then I don't even want to waste my time. My university is also a bit more well known for mechanical engineering and related degrees.
or am I totally wrong and CS is easily the best way to go?
>>25621139 I really just want a comfy job. I don't even care about making that much money. I have very bad anxiety and doing shit that is super high stress or something I'm not into at all, the money really won't matter. I like how you can work on software from home too. I really just want to know if it's a total death trap, big bubble that's going to burst and everyone is going to lose their CS-related job or if it's actually growing.
>>25620880 >>25620925 >he things CS is about computers You're the type of person that fails out after 2 years. CS is mostly applied math, with programming weaved in. If you don't have an interest in doing >logic proofs >algorithmic proofs >linear algebra >reinventing the wheel for CS to understand the basis of certain things Then CS is not for you.
>>25621498 Yeah, I know all of that. I just mean that I want to do something related to computers and CS seems like a good choice. I've already looked at the courses required and I like that it's something like math being used. It seems like if a program has any math in it, it's usually better than ones without.
When I think about engineering, it just seems like every joe shmo is going into it for the money, and the nature of it just seems wrong to me and I really don't want a part in it. I've been trying to lie to myself and say that mechanical or electrical engineering are cool and that I'm interested, but I'm really not. I've been on my own PC since I was 5 years old and have always tinkered with them. I just feel at home with computers.
>>25621582 Right, it's a wish I'm sure. I sort of mean partially that it would be more broad, allow me to work on side projects at home... you can't really do that on a large scale if you're a mechanical engineer unless you have loads of tools and machines etc. electrical is a bit easier, but I'm not really interested in that as much as CS either.
>>25621498 not the OP but i have a bachelors in applied math. never taken a programming course but i taught myself a little python and i used visual basic for a bit in an operations research class i took.
i find computer science and programming interesting... but i'm not good at it, and i don't know if it's just because i haven't practiced enough or if it's because i'm too dumb for it.
i really want to get a masters in computer science but i don't want to waste $50k on a masters only to find out that i am, in fact, too stupid to be a software engineer.
>>25621708 Everyone is going for it, but most aren't smart enough to actually get the degree. So you're fine. >freshman year, 300 people in intro class >2 years later, 45 people left The maek gaymes fags are the first to fall. Then the autists that care more about looking cool than actually doing well. Then the people who just aren't smart enough.
>>25621817 i dont know. like i said, i know a bit of vb and python. whenever i look at the source code of a real piece of software, i just get completely lost. i cannot understand how to break something down to such small steps, and to organize it into a working program.
I'm a 2nd year who fucked up and now have been told by my department that I will have to switch majors because I now dont have enough time to finish prereqs. I'm thinking of dropping out and going to the local community college nearby - it's a great CC and it gets lots of transfers and even international students - and just starting over with an engineering degree - I will have college transfer credit from the courses I have completed - and transferring back in - or maybe possibly to another university.
Should I do it? I know the statistics for CC students who stay there too long or don't graduate but those are the bottom of the rung normies who waste time in CC and minimum wage jobs. I feel that I need to go this route because that way I can get a better GPA and a better stem degree. I'm a pre-math major as of now and I'm 19.
>>25621932 It doesnt really matter what you know. Its more about learning quickly. University Maths is very different and a lot harder. If you struggled in HS you will get problems if you don't work very hard.
>>25621992 That comes with experience. You know creativity works, right? >1) you're trying to figure it out >2) you imitate those who you regard as superior >3) you're forced to rewrite something the aforementioned superiors have written >4) you start having your own opinions/views >5) you find your own style >6) the student becomes the master That's how it works.
>>25621957 >>25622010 To be fair most intro classes are just lecture halls and everyone is required to take them and they make the class huge then as you get into upper division shit they want smaller more personalized classes.
I am a business major and all lower division classes were 100-400 people and all the upper division business classes were 15-40 people
>>25622086 Because >1) Dunning-Kruger effect; they think because they can write hello world, they're software engineers >2) They hate the fact some people are able to make significant $$$w/o a college degree Plenty of software is written in India already, but it's not maintainable. Anyone in the business knows that.
yes, if you are skilled in that department. engineering works as well if you're good at math. if you have no social skills and are stupid (a double whammy that was bestowed upon my sorry ass) you're destined to stock shelves your entire life.
Different anon going into college as well Thinking of becoming a retail pharmacist Anyone with experience in pharmacy can leave some tips on this or if it's really worth pursuing It just feels like the only thing that's "right" That or dentistry
>>25621582 >Most software related jobs you have to do in teams and have good normie skills.
im an android developer working in a company that develops software for the second largest mobile telecommunications company in the world.
this anon is 100% right. Software development today requires you and your team to be very agile, that requires good communication skills, meetings every day, reporting and discussing problems collectively and deal with a bunch of normies and their egos.
>>25621898 Never in writing new algorithms. A little in terms of deciding which existing is best, but it's less than 1% of the work and is usually a non issue. Basic understanding of algorithmic thinking is important to optimize performance, but you are mostly self policing at that point and can usually get away with it.
Computer Science to software engineering is like mechanical engineering to being a car mechanic.
My first job was java EE development. I was doing a lot of bugfixing and feature building on a very old platform. I moved to another big company that is beloved by tech journos. I do a lot more software building from the ground up, but algorithm inplementation is a non issue. We use existing 3rd party libraries, and I still do a fair bit of bugfixing, I just work on friendlier platforms with way better communities for up to date documentation.
I believe that a lot of PhD work, especially data mining, some machine learning areas involve actuallt writing algorithms. Data mining has tons of analysis, very little programming and mostly mathy stuff. For bachelors only work, compilers require a bit of bottom up algorithm work, and I think people hire bachelors there.
Design Patterns are extremely important in software development. Learn them.
>>25622290 I find your post very calming. I'm down with this >Design Patterns are extremely important in software development. Learn them. So basically the average software engineer is an API monkey building library legos into structures according to known design patterns? That's what I'm doing already.
>>25622334 Yep, the local CC nearby definitely has a transfer program to my current university. It's a feeder school and international students move here just to attend that CC so they can transfer in. But Idk if my university will take me back in if I drop out and transfer back in from the CC. I guess I will have to have a 4.0 and a great resume to transfer back into a better major.
>>25622010 Yes, I am a 9-5 grinder in it for money. I don't code in my free time and generally dislike it. I still did great in school with little work. CS is easy if you engage with your professors at all.
There's a huge hatred from people who love their boring white collar job. Absolutely crazy to me.
>>25622349 Sort of. I like to think of it as an API monkey that has to understand or design the existing complex system, and uses that to design another API or more UI features for clients (public/business).
I am very cynical though, I work with people who think what they are doing is creative and beautiful. I think we look for that lust, in addition to tangible experience when hiring.
In hiring, the middle managers and tech leads on teams usually ask us devs for confirmation of abilities that we test for, a few thoughts on their attitude and how they fit socially in the team.
>>25622402 Yeah when I switched careers from early childhood education to IT, I have never be so chill.
Money keeps flowing in, I have no idea what to do with it, my car is only 3 years old and isn't a huge piece of shit, all my bills are set up for automatic payment, I have no overdraft fees, my car maintenance is up to date. I don't have to eat ramen. I don't get stressed about the cost of things when I go out. I buy stuff I want without having to save up (or put it on lay away).
I sleep better, I no longer have perpetual headaches, I also lost about 20 lbs.
EE is a much better choice than computer science. One is a legitimate career option that spans across many industries. The other is one that's filled with bronies, women and indians that will leave you unemployed from market saturation.
>>25622557 >I am very cynical though, I work with people who think what they are doing is creative and beautiful. I do too. I've written some core libraries that I sincerely believe to more like works of art than software.
In an attempt to contrast my work to lower-level (read: more intricate) stuff, I'm just being realistic of my true contributions to CS.
I did CS because i wasn't interested enough in any other majors to justify taking them and I spent all my free time on the computer - mostly video editing/music production (never programmed at all) - so i figured it would be a great choice even though i knew nothing about what it entailed.
Going into university I had the mindset that I was paying for my degree and it was basically going to get handed to me. Quickly learnt this was not the case and ended up dropping out after my first year as I couldn't achieve the 40% needed to pass the math module. CS is not just programming!
Anyway, was gonna switch to econ but my dad convinced me to give CS another try so I did and I passed the first year and am now in the second semester of the second year and i'm really enjoying it. Just be aware that there is very little emphasis on programming after you've done the basic intro classes, and if you aren't naturally gifted in CS you need to put in the time to make sure you understand everything and don't fall behind.
I live in Canada, i'm in my 3rd year of this program, writing a good resume that stands out and the interviews are hard, I'm always shitposting on here so my resume still isn't finished.... if you live in the US it should be ez mode. There are literally no girls in the program so if that's what your into i guess it's okay.
>>25622702 >more like works of art than software What makes them beautiful? How are they more like art than software?
When I see coworkers talk about this, what they usually mean is they implemented something efficiently to make it useful and readable for future people. That's great, but then almost every industry has artistic qualities to them. Which does not feel right and actually corrupts the meaning of art in my eyes.
If it's pride in your work, that's fine. But I make music in my free time, and amount of subjectivity required is different. The artistic software I have been shown is coming up with an obvious implementation that most likely should already be a standard.
I didn't see this: >>25622227 These people are simply looking back at the 2000 bubble and think it's going to happen again.
The game is completely different now. There is oversight on how money is invested in start ups, it's all very enfranchised and stable. At worst, we have an online advertising bubble pop but any sort of recession in tech is going to be reflected even more horribly in the general economy.
Software follows money and mainstream culture, and as long as the west maintains it's monopoly on both, then software will continue to be mildly lucrative for a white collar passive guy.
>>25622248 Somewhat agreed, but stereotypes of programmers helps out robots enormously. I sperg it up in meetings every other week. And business just awkwardly laughs a moment and my analyst just kind of shakes his head after. In fact, the better companies you go to, the more this type of spergy, well-meaning but socially retarded attitude becomes accepted. It's definitely socially better for robots than most other options.
thought i'd just drop by to ask, as someone who is 22, never went to a uni, went to work in an automotive factory. I thought I was too retarded for uni and barely got through Hs because I always slept and wanted to an hero and skipped classes.
I'm used to working 60 hours a week now, and ready to go back to school. I was going to go for Mechanical engineering since I'm already in the automotive industry, but I was thinking of CS&E
Am I going to be fucked or can I power through with sheer work ethic alone?
>>25623461 >When I see coworkers talk about this, what they usually mean is they implemented something efficiently to make it useful and readable for future people. That's great, but then almost every industry has artistic qualities to them. Which does not feel right and actually corrupts the meaning of art in my eyes. What I mean by art confines within the realm you describe. It's symmetrical, harmonious and efficient.
>If it's pride in your work, that's fine. But I make music in my free time, and amount of subjectivity required is different. I disagree with this. If you look look at classical music (on theoretical level), it's actually quite restrictive.The chords and the scales are bound by laws of symmetry. Just because my creations are bound by boolean operators (where there still are no absolutely correct/most efficient) solutions, doesn't mean there isn't creativity involved.
Be it music or boolean logic, the solutions come to us from levels of consciousness we can't objectively review/perceive.
>>25623635 Sounds good. I'm not in CS but in civil engineering. It's not amazing but I just want a stable 9-5 job that leaves me financially stable so I just wanted to know if the "do what you love" bullshit effects you.
>>25623762 To be quite honest I do about 2-3 hours of actual work every day, the rest of my time I am upskilling/studying for better certs. (Or shitposting on twitter if I feel like being unproductive).
I'm lucky because the bulk of the IT department in my company exists in Austin and those guys are fucking morons and take forever to do anything.
Dunno what this means, CS and engineering will require you to take plenty of math courses, engineering will have more physics as well. If you're interested technical work, pick what sounds the most interesting to you
>>25623894 This just in anon, the college you go to doesn't matter unless it is the number 1 school in the field you want to go into, other than that any school will do as long as it is accredited and you have the right major
Lel, getting a Cuckold Science degree instead of joining the IS master race. Have fun sitting in your cubicle being my bitch and coding out the databases I design like a good little monkey while I sit in an office having actual business meetings helping clients and the big wigs manage their company's information and erp systems while you try to convince yourself that Java is fun! Shit html is at least bearable but Java is just soul sucking.
>>25622227 The way I see it, shit like "I'm gonna make a fortune designing apps" and "I'm gonna work for video games" are bubble-tier, but technology has thoroughly proliferated our society, so there will be jobs for those who design and maintain it. There are tons of industrial applications, every industry has specific software they use, and automation will continue.
>>25623618 I do think there are creative and efficient solutions to software, I was mostly tossing out words in my post of >>25622557 as an emotional reaction to my coworkers this matter of software/art is just because I was triggered by what you posted.
>What I mean by art confines within the realm you describe. It's symmetrical, harmonious and efficient. I don't see it that way.
>I disagree with this. If you look look at classical music (on theoretical level), it's actually quite restrictive.The chords and the scales are bound by laws of symmetry. Just because my creations are bound by boolean operators (where there still are no absolutely correct/most efficient) solutions, doesn't mean there isn't creativity involved. I'm talking about art, not creativity. There are creative solutions to non-artistic problems. That doesn't make them art.
Art has emotional triggers to it that creates the sense of beauty when you view it. Music can be made non-artistically, but the point of art is to be created in a way that hits those emotional soft spots.
If we try to make some sort of comparison, software development is like painting a huge house. It is not like painting a traditional piece of fine art. There are so many detracting factors to scaled software development that it is usually not art.
>Be it music or boolean logic, the solutions come to us from levels of consciousness we can't objectively review/perceive. We can review art and determine what is good, it's mostly self-evident if you have consumed it enough.
What are the comfiest jobs in CS/SE/computer-related fields in general?
Also, I guess those two questions are somewhat contradictory, but what's the hottest branch of CS right now that basically guarantees interesting opportunities? Security? I'm willing to go up to a PhD if it's necessary
>>25624529 very few anons here grasp CS and Engineering at its core. The rest are NEETS that are just upset that they don't understand shit.
At the end of the day STEM (CS included) is all about problem solving. Each branch of STEM just utilises a different method specific to their problem.
That being said, yes all STEM degrees are good degrees and yes all STEM degrees require maths. It does not always mean that you will use all of it but then it serves as an indispensable resource for problem solving.
So now it just depends on what OP wants to do?
>Work on websites, can just do a regular IT course >wants to software development, CS is good >wants to write applications that solve physics problems, learn physics and not programming >wants to tell everyone he's in IT, fucking doesn't really matter what he studies.
Engineering is a good gig, but as others have said, the stereotype of the antisocial programmer is not true these days.
Working as a programmer will put you in an open-layout office surrounded by the most domineering type of normies, and youll need to fit in and have good social skills too.
Its also tough because theres a lot of pressure on the devs to build stuff that works, as often youll integrate your section of code right before the execs show the product at a demo expo or whatever.
A lot of this probably depends on type and size of company, but so far ive noticed a very egocentric, competitive, and high pressure atmosphere that gives rise to bullying and politics.
Also your first job might be for a startup with "a brilliant new product", getting totally overworked and abused for not that great of pay. In any case, it involves lots of face to face and remote conferencing, and copious amounts of brown nosing.
the plus side is that its a high skill, in demand field, and if youre in it you can always find a job.
>>25624404 The bit of Java that I have done was just awful in my opinion, maybe I haven't done enough of it to enjoy it yet. I have a class coming up on Java next semester. >>25624894 My man how far along are you in your degree, junior here I have enjoyed doing conceptual modeling the most I'd say. >>25624975 You seem upset, I know it must be shitty how you CS nerds will be shoved into cuckubles after graduation and will get shitted on by management compared to IS majors who actually work with clients and aren't easily expendable code monkeys that could be outsourced to pajeet.
>>25624972 >>25625243 >You seem upset, I know it must be shitty how you CS nerds will be shoved into cuckubles after graduation and will get shitted on by management compared to IS majors who actually work with clients and aren't easily expendable code monkeys that could be outsourced to pajeet. ummm... I'm a Solutions Architect...
IT / IS is where it's at for bots who don't really like math. Plus most programming isn't math anyways it's just a way to cull the herd. I always say it's CS IT (says that on my diploma). And look for jobs before graduating. Shit is cash. I don't make as much as if I was a pure software engineer but it's pretty cool. I do QA and I'll either stay in this or try to transition into software engineering or sys admin work depending. Pretty neat I feel like I can do a lot of things.
I'm pretty antisocial at work too, I sit in my cube all day and occasionally go out to eat with or ask coworkers work related questions. They are all either foreigners or somewhat weird themselves. Besides that I'm actually busy as hell and so is everyone else so it works out. I could work from home, but I don't like it as much. And at the end of the day my boss just cares about whether the product is deliverable, not whether I renounced my white privilege or participated in some meme bullshit.
I'm a dev, through the traditional route (degree in CS.) Degrees in this field vary in quality, requirements, etc. You will have to look at the curriculum. My school required a lot of math.
I work in an office but my goal is to eventually work remotely. Remote jobs are out there but most employers still expect you to come in. Well-paying remote jobs usually require more experience.
You don't need to be a social butterfly but you need to be able to talk to people. Software development is done by teams.
Some people go into the field for money, or because they think it would be neat, without ever having actually programmed. Most of them don't finish undergrad. I started programming when I was a teenager and never lost interest.
If you think you might be interested, my advice would be to buy some books and try to make something. Make a game, a mobile app, a web app, doesn't matter. A couple books cost a lot less than classes, and you can gauge your interest that way. There's free resources online but I like having a physical book personally.
Is dropping out of uni, going to a good cc and busting your ass for 2 years to transfer to a better school despite the extra 1-2 years a good idea? I have a 2.3 shitty gpa and Im getting nowhere right now in my current uni and Id like to start over
Former robot (from like 2010) here. Studying CS and currently interning at one of the biggest tech companies.
Some quick points based on what I've skimmed:
CS is not saturated. Far from it. Most graduates are absolutely awful and can still get decent jobs relative to min wage burger flipping.
It doesn't have to be math heavy/intense. I'm awful at math and am doing fine. If you're interested in field like AI, Machine Learning, and Computer Vision, be good at math. They're emerging fields at the moment that pay amazingly if you're good at it. But you don't need to be good at those to be successful. I'm not and I'm doing fine.
"Liking computers" isn't necessarily indicative that you'll like programming. You like shitposting on the internet and possibly building computers. Neither are related to software development. Software dev is all about problem solving and cracking puzzles. If out of the box problem solving abilities are something you have or have interest in, it's a better indicator than most others.
If you're not sure and don't want to commit to a degree, there's a shitton of online resources. Codecademy is what I used to learn; it's free and (at least back when I used it) was good at teaching first year university level content. Otherwise, MIT has free lectures on youtube. They throw you in the deep end quickly, but if you can keep up with those and manage, you'll be fine in any degree you do.
If you robots have any other questions, I'll try my best to answer.
>>25629616 The country I'm from doesn't have a big on campus living culture. Almost everyone just goes to the university that's in their city that is the best for whatever they want to study. So I don't really know what that's like, sorry.
I have done dorm style living before (internship housing), and it's basically like living in a house with other people. Everyone has their own bedroom. You share common areas, respect them and don't make a huge mess. Interact when you see eachother but don't really go out of your way to unless you're friends.
>>25629882 Thankfully, the CS crowd tends to be on the socially awkward side. So as far as the people in your classes, you'll likely be far from the most socially incapable. Plus it also makes making friendships easier as there's barely any normies.
Even then, the only forced social interaction you'd have in classes is potentially in practicals or assignments where you have to work as a group. Again, given the nature of most CS people, it shouldn't feel too uncomfortable.
>>25622026 No its not you stupid faggot. Computer Science is math. You fucks are the reason that we can't be taken seriously anymore. You fucks are why Unis are starting to make stuff like "theory of computation" and "algorithm analysis" classes optional. Stop making a mockery out of my field
>>25628377 It can be a great job if you have the knack for it. Some people hate programming, some people love it.
>>25629142 >What physical books do you personally recommend if you used any beforehand? I've read a slew of books. Technical books can be fun to read if they're well written.
There's a lot of opinions about how to start. Personally I would start with a language. K&R's C Programming Language is a classic. If you want something slightly more modern and perhaps forgiving look into O'Reilly's Learning Python. If you're mathematically inclined or interested in theory check out MIT's SICP (that is the most academic and computer science oriented text of the three.)
After that I would recommend 7 Languages in 7 Weeks to learn why there are different languages. Once you know C, and if you are into security, I recommend: Art of Exploitation by Erickson Shellcoder's Handbook Reversing by Eilam (The bottom two being advanced.)
How I started (not recommended:) I downloaded the Half-Life SDK which was released in 2002. It was over 100MB and I think we still had dial-up. I wanted to understand the C++ so I bought Sam's Teach Yourself C++ in 24 Hours out of a bargain bin at Border's. The book wasn't met for beginners but I worked through it.
>>25621498 That's bullshit, I'm in my fourth semester of a CS degree and algorithmic/logic proofs were the focus of only one class and only make passing occurrences in others. It's a part of it, but an incredibly small one. Programming is the vast majority of the coursework.
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