Not a vegan but nature is really fucked up. Have you ever seen an animal being eaten alive? It's the most terrifying thing I've ever witnessed. t.b.h. the animals we eat should be glad they get a quick death rather than being ripped piece by piece by a merciless predator.
>>25516824 Okay, I'm not a vegetarian or vegan, but everyone understands why this pic is a piss-poor argument right? It equates higher-order creatures like humans who can transcend instinct with lower-order creatures who rely solely on the impulse to feed. In addition, there is simply no argument that many many slaughterhouses engage in cruel practices against animals in order to bring them to American tables. You can be an omnivore or carnivore and still recognize the violence that needs to be stopped in the system. We'll still have delicious chicken, beef, and pork, but stop torturing animals in the process.
>>25517076 >agree with other humans not to mutually damage each other so that a society can be built >can't agree with other animals >they'll actually harm you if possible >they'll harm other animals too >it's still morally wrong to eat them because reasons
>>25517885 No, I am not missing the point you are trying to make. It is just that point is simply unfounded and retarded. Humans are indeed animals as classified and therefore bound by the same nutritional as the rest of the mammals. What you are doing is claiming we are somehow inherently different physiologically, which is false, as we are only different philosophically.
>>25517663 >no one ever takes your "scientific" facts seriously... >no one takes FACTS seriously >Fact (n) a thing that is indisputably the case.
Yeah, you didn't have to tell me that a good majority of humanity is retarded. I mean they believe it's possible to take pride in things you didn't do and that ancestors have the ability to give a shit about what you do.
>>25517082 > there is simply no argument that many many slaughterhouses engage in cruel practices against animals in order to bring them to American tables. Convenience tbqh.
Do you seriously believe if another species got to our level of intelligence they wouldn't applaud our farming methods?
I'm sure the people "torturing" the animals don't take immense pleasure in it. Unless you find me a picture/video of some farmer jerking off into freshly slit chicken necks, I have to assume they're killing them the "best" way they know how.
In this day and age meat is obsolete in terms of getting the right nutritions. Face it, you eat it because you like it. There are dozens of alternatives for meat. There are also dozens of reasons to be a vegan.
>>25519793 >Vitamin B12, Creatine, Carnosine, Cholecalciferol, Docosahexaenoic Acid, Heme-iron, Taurine are only found in meat >Deciding to get inadequate amount of protein on purpose >Vegans defend this
We are omnivores, meat is healthy if done correctly and isn't a McDonalds cheese burger, deal with it. Also I'd love to see you get over 100g of protein daily just from plants, and that is just to keep someone going who's sitting on the computer all day.
I'm a vegetarian but why is it so hard for you guys to understand that the vast majority of us don't actually dislike meat nor are opposed to its consumption, it's the meat industry as a whole that's utterly barbaric.
These animals are artificially inseminated and when the babies are born they're taken after one or two weeks and placed into a cage. They're pumped with artificial hormones to induce growth, which you consume as a result btw. They develop in cages that are frequently too small for their size, developing sores and infections as a result of the metal pushing into them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. To combat this they're fed antibiotics, which is currently a massive contributor to the antibiotic resistance crisis we're very soon to be experiencing. No room to move around, to even turn over, they lie in their own shit and piss all day, every day. Every day they can do nothing but lie there, only thinking, only feeling, surrounded by the agonised screams of their brethren who are currently suffering the same fate all around them.
People look back at events such as slavery or the holocaust as a stain on the history of humanity, but this kind of shit goes down in the meat industry every single day hardly anybody bats an eyelid. It's fucking 100x more barbaric and everytime I think of it I feel sick to my fucking stomach and want to burn fucking everything.
For the people that consume the results of these atrocities, doesn't this bother you? Does it not make you feel sick? Are none of you able to empathise with the fact that their are millions of animals suffering this torture as I type and the cruelty and pain they must be feeling right now?
Meat tastes good but for me, nothing is worth it. If my non-participation helps to drive down supply and demand in the industry and prevent other beings from experiencing this I will happily never eat meat ever again.
It's like fucking foie gras, you guys ever seen how they make this shit? They keep ducks in tiny metal cages and around 5 times a day a guy will come round, grab the ducks neck and force a metal tube down its throat and into its stomach and funnel grain directly into it.
As a result the ducks liver becomes diseased and enlarges. Then we eat it.
>>25516824 To be human is to be violent. And an omnivore.
Vegans shun their humanity because of "cruelty" towards inferior beings.
Oh, and invertebrates, ie shellfish, don't feel pain. So even if you're a pussy ass retard, you can still eat some seafood.
Also, those studies saying veganism is healthy, if they come from America, they aren't trustworthy. Monsato would make more money with veggies than with meat. The food industry in America is extremely corrupt.
>>25517409 Actually B12 deficiency is extremely rare in most people because it takes an average of about 3 years of nomeat for the body to use up its stores of b12. It's most other vitamins you should be worried about.
>all these meat eaters itt defending themselves from a lifestyle choice someone else made I'm sure that bologna sandwich of yours gets you all the minerals and vitamins you need compared to fruits and vegetables.
>>25520862 >doesn't this bother you? Does it not make you feel sick? No. You're also exaggerating and making quite a lot of false claims and implications. Animals aren't the same as humans. As long as they're warm, and have food, they could care less where they are.
Personally, I think it's entirely admirable. The treatment certain animals are given is completely unjust and is so far from nature it's not even funny. I'm bias though because I work on a small organic farm and raise chickens. It's given me a new respect for the animals I consume. I don't think consumption is bad, but the mass production that food industries have to do to meet bullshit demands is absolute trash.
That being said, I would never renounce eating meat completely. I do think that people should have more respect for the creatures they eat, though. Raising your own chicken and then turning it into a well prepared chicken dinner is one thing. Forcing billions of chickens into awful conditions that you are completely seperated from to turn it into chicken nuggets prepared by minimum wage indentured servants is another thing.
Honestly, if someone wants to eat meat, I think they should be forced to raise and/or slaughter their own animal at least once to realize what it's actually like.
You don't need meat though. If you need meat in your diet why am I not dead yet? I'll tell you straight out, I'd bet hard cash that I am healthier and fitter than at least 95% of this board.
I honestly believe that the only reason most people eat meat is because they do not regularly have to confront where it's coming from. If everybody on this board went into a factory farm and witnessed the suffering and cruelty first hand I firmly believe that only a select few would continue to eat meat.
btw the reason I don't try to acquire meat from a cruelty free source is that when you go veggie/vegan after a while meat becomes visually repulsive to you. The sight, the smell, the taste, you no longer enjoy it, and I used to be a meat fanatic.
If somebody had told me this change would occur 4 years ago I would have not believed them.
>>25521061 It makes sense that somebody this cucked by the capitalist system would be a vegan because veganism is a capitalist lifestyle choice that does nothing meaningful to stop the treatment of animals during food production. If you actually believe we have any kind of choice, then what do you think happened to Salvador Allende?
>>25516824 OP's pic shows natural predator/prey relationships. A kid eating a chicken wing is not a natural predator/prey relationship. Thus eating non wild caught meat or fish is against natural law and wrong.
I eat meat because I love it and the endless number of different gourmet foods that come from it. I literally don't give a sailing fuck how much nutrition I get from it. It tastes good. I don't die of hunger or become malnourished and that's the end of it. Sure animals could be killed quicker and less painfully, but other than that I simply don't love tasting cum enough to care that animals die so I can eat meat.
Most people I know that are against meat is because of the animal cruelty that goes with mass production of meat products. Which I can understand to an extent I was raised in buttfuck Idaho so I know what it's like to actually hunt for food which brings on a new perspective on eating meat. That and my grandfather worked at a mass butchery and I got one of my first jobs there killing cows so yeah. . .
I'm not a vegan and I don't know what gave you that impression either.
And yes you do have a choice. You can get out of your chair right now, divorce yourself from capitalistic society and go live inna woods. You could purchase or acquire a gun and go assassinate a member of two of your ruling body.
You will always have a choice, but you're just too damn lazy and complacent to change your conditions. Bitch about Capitalism all you want but you're currently enjoying its fruit are you not?
Do these animals have any of these choices? Do they have the option to alter their fate as you do?
Took me 24 years of my life before I decided to make the change so I'm not going to berate you for your present choice. One day I just couldn't be complacent anymore and I snapped and gave it up then and there. Who knows, maybe you will too one day. I don't believe the right way to get people to convert is through aggression, only reasoning and facts and through appealing to the emotions that we ultimately all possess.
>>25521275 >>I can tell you're not a intelligent man. >>Way to not attempt to refute any of the claims you're stating as false though.
Okay, i made a grammatical error, let's stay focused.
What do these animals think and feel? They think and fell they want to go to the outside world that they don't even know exists? They have a place to sleep and are given high quality food while laying around all day, that's literally all a wild animal could want in life. But these animals don't even know anything else. They literally cannot be unhappy, because they don't know what to be unhappy about.
You're trying to humanize animals, you come to illogical conclusions, and demonize an entire industry over the malpractices of a few.
Aside from that, you've given up meat completely instead of choosing meat from places you deem 'nice', so you're obviously just trying to rebel and make a political statement while telling yourself 'I'm not like all those other vegans'
>>25521438 I blame technology. Thanks to convenience humans have become way to complacent. I just watched The Big Short over the weekend and realized, could you imagine if something like that happened at any other point in history?
Every single banker would be dragged by mobs ,quartered, or hung. Instead everyone sits there, takes it up the ass, and the bankers get bailed out by the government.
>>25521438 >divorce yourself from capitalistic society and go live inna woods. that won't stop capitalism anon >You could purchase or acquire a gun and go assassinate a member of two of your ruling body. and that won't stop capitalism either it will probably make it a bit worse >Bitch about Capitalism all you want but you're currently enjoying its fruit are you not? this argument is inane and ridiculous i'm enjoying the fruits of human progress, which exploitation has always hampered they could have had the industrial revolution in ancient greece but the technology was never developed because the rulers could just use slave labor >Do these animals have any of these choices? Do they have the option to alter their fate as you do? assassinating a head of state is the human equivalent of banging against a cage, so they have a similar amount of choice
I recently just had a full physical and bloodwork done whilst being assessed for ENT surgery for a congenitally deviated septum which hampers my breathing and aside from the retarded nose thing the results came back as me being at the pinnacle of health.
That aside, my hair is lustrous and shiny, my skin is perfect and has that dewy glow, my eyes are bright, my muscles firm and strong and my gums are vibrant and firm.
All of these areas are some of the first to display signs of nutritional deficiency but they don't, so why is that? I'd also like to see you produce an accredited, referenced study proving that ALL vegetarians/vegans are chronically nutrionally deficient.
>>25520419 You don't need 100g of protein throughout the day. I work manual labor and work out, and I have never felt the need to get that much protein. Even so, peanut butter has fuck tons of protein. I used to eat half a jar a day when I was bulking and I wasn't even vegan.
All those nutrients can be replaced and supplemented for.
>many studies have shown that sows in crates exhibit behavior such as bar-biting, head weaving, and tongue rolling. This behavior, such as bar-biting and other stereotypic behavior can also lead to other physical trauma, such as sores from frequent contact with the metal bars, and mouth sores from sham-chewing and bar-biting. They also show behavior that indicates learned helplessness, according to Morris, such as remaining passive when poked or when a bucket of water is thrown over them
>>25522276 That's not being mistreated, that's a dumb cow hurting itself, they do that on regular farms as well. And It's not normal for a cow to try and kill you for poking it, and throwing water over an animal that's lived in a small space its entire life? Yeah It's not going to freak out and risk hurting itself over a little water.
No, these are behaviours induced as a result of the mental problems they develop on account of their lifestyle. The conditions they live in drive them to insanity and you're seriously so stupid as to claim that they're happy? You think ammonia burns and open wounds and infected sores and rotting teeth are enjoyable?
You have any pets? A dog? A cat? Can you honestly say they'd be happy existing in these conditions?
>>25521275 Without meat every empire will fall. Every, no, no exceptions. Most people aren't as rich as you and the Jews are already in control of enough weak minded people. Being a vegan makes you mentally and physically weak.
>>25522548 I never said they're happy. I said they're not unhappy. They're neither, because animals don't experience happiness and sadness the same as humans do. >You think ammonia burns and open wounds and infected sores and rotting teeth are enjoyable? You're implying that every cow on every factory has conditions like these, and you're implying that cows have feelings like humans. >You have any pets? A dog? A cat? >Can you honestly say they'd be happy existing in these conditions? No, my cat would not be happy in those conditions, because cats and dogs are predators, not grazers.
But putting all that aside, you're simply irrational for thinking these things and having these childish ideals. It doesn't matter if the animals are legitimately tortured before slaughter, you should care more about yourself and your own species well being than another creature of another species.
>>25523118 Wtf are you talking about? I don't get what you're trying to imply here do you think you're saying clever things or something? I never said if an empire falls it's because they don't eat meat you retard you're like low function autistic. We need meat to stay strong. Without it we become feminine and have no defence anymore and no fucking beans aren't gonna help bonehead.
>>25523230 There are studies by legitimate historical researchers showing most roman aristocrats suffered from gout. This connected with high concentrations of lead found in remains means that had lead poisoning. Or something. There is actual research out there.
I was just wording it in an autistic way because I'm bored.
And cows may be smarter than cats, but intelligence has nothing to do with it, predators are less fit for a factory farming environment. Even then, if a cow was raised in a field then put into a factory farm, it would be unhappy.
>>25523053 >you should care more about yourself and your own species well being than another creature of another species. eating animals is proof you don't give a fuck about your fellow man; the grain that is given to livestock could literally feed hundreds of millions of people
>>25523654 Actually, I eat grass-fed meat and animals that are quite specifically not grain fed. Why? Normal livestock techniques convert inedible cellulose (grass) to stuff that I can eat (beef). It's the industry that has ruined livestock by feeding them grains that make them fat and sick. Your fellow man would become fat and sick if all they ate were grains as well.
>>25520419 >implying plant protein is hard to find Try not being a fat fuck and planning your meals instead of waddling to McDonald's for a week. Please explain to me how humans are omnivores when we have to cook meat or get sick eating it.
If humans weren't so cost ineffective to raise we'd be eating humans. We would breed them stupid and lock them up just like farm animals. But the cost and time for a human to ripen is too much. We'd also find a way to gene modify the negative effects of cannibalism out of the live stock.
>>25523768 Meat has nothing to do with getting sick. You can eat raw meat all week and it won't harm you. What DOES harm you is the bacteria that is also eating meat (or the meat is playing host to) like Salmonella. Did you just forget that sushi exists or are you actually that delusional?
>>25523978 Exactly, the only reason why I think some animals shouldn't be put in shitty conditions is because I'm worried their meat might not taste as good if they died miserable. I could stop eating meat and just take vitamins but that shits boring and gay.
Meat eaters get so butthurt about vegans. If you really believe your diet is better, why are you so insecure about it? You claim vegans are constantly preaching their beliefs and attacking you when you make threads like this.
Just face it, you're a lazy ignorant consumer who's only arguing because you hate being wrong.
>>25516824 im fine with eating meat for basic survival but at this point it has been exploited to the brink like everything else on earth for greed and gluttony, etc..
people will literally spend money on some shitty tasting mcburger where millions of animals are treated like shit and killed so some fat fuck can fill his mouth and also fill some businessman's pocket.. that is not 'nature'
>>25525243 imho I see more shit online where omnivores hate on vegans then vice verse. irl I hate never in my life seen any conflict, and I hang out in a mixed crowd of both omivores, meatlovers and vegans/vegetarians - there's never even been an issue about picking a restaurant because we're all adults and also sane
>>25516824 >tfw incapable of seeing anything wrong with eating meat
I've heard all of the arguments but I just can't understand what is so bad about it. In that sense I am very similar to a lion since they also can't comprehend what is bad about eating meat. If that's the case then shouldn't vegans be okay with me eating meat? They are okay with lions eating meat. That doesn't mean I am not able to think for myself I just don't have the ability to understand what is wrong about eating meat so therefore vegans shouldn't hate me.
>>25525996 depends - what is your stance on other moral issues? if you are truly amoral and incapable of understanding any moral issues, i.e. if you are animalistic in your capacity for moral reasoning, then maybe
>>25526129 Then, from a vegan POV, you have moral capacity and COULD theoretically understand. You have simply made another moral choice, one they do not agree with and believe is wrong - i.e. you are not "incapable of understanding" as much as you either "fail to fully understand" or "understand but don't care". You are not like a lion because a lion lacks altogether moral reasoning or capacity (in the human sense); it cannot have discussions and debates concerning the ethics of it's diet, nor do lions as a whole have agriculture & technology that would allow them to choose not to eat meat.
>>25516824 >"I inexplicably hate people for their personal dietary choices that don't affect me in any way."
>"I don't like it when people push their beliefs on me, which is exactly what vegetarians / vegans do!"
And two wrongs make a right? Stop pushing your beliefs on me, faggot. I'm a vegetarian, but I couldn't care less what sort of lifestyle you want to practice. So shut the fuck up when it comes to matters of my own body.
>appeal to nature
Morality is subjectively experienced by humans. Non-sapient lifeforms don't have the reasoning skills to give a shit about our morality, so basing our understanding of morality on behaviors among uncivilized animals makes absolutely no sense.
If you want to go hunt down animals for consumption, I can't stop you. I just don't see any point in whining about it when someone you care about has their throat ripped out by a hungry wildebeest you so closely identify your personal morality with.
>"Why preserve the lives of savage beasts that wouldn't give a second thought to eating you?"
That's not why I'm a vegetarian. It's just a matter of personal responsibility. It's more of an opt out. I don't want to feel like I'm on the same base level as maneaters. I don't care what is or isn't "natural."
even if that makes me a vegetarian to some degree, I don't give a fuck about people who do eat meat.
people who do are petty, ignorant idiots. even if you don't eat animals that are slaughtered to become food, somebody else will, you're not helping anybody. Sick of these people trying to strike up a conversation about diets with me and they're like; >"oh you're a vegetarian?" >"me too! I love animals!" >mfw tl;dr fuck animals, they taste like shit.
I'm vegetarian. I hardly ever tell people, I only do when somebody asks. Its part of my ethical beliefs that one shouldn't harm another living creature unless its unavoidable (like walking through the garden and killing a worm without knowing, or shooting someone who wants to murder you).
What I've noticed after three years of being vegetarian is that the most obnoxious people aren't vegetarians, but the people who, for some reason, lose their mind over me not eating meat. They get all defensive and start being passive aggressive/ making shit jokes. People like this are the fedora tipping atheists of the ethics world. Why do you guys seriously get so upset over what is basically just someone else's opinion?
Pic is a random photo of my breakfast I thought I'd include
>>25527921 It's frustrating to try and understand why you do it. People risk their health because they're such a bleeding heart they can't hurt another living creature? Why? There's literally no logic in it, and it frustrates me because can't understand what brings people to this conclusion.
>>25528107 Your argument is that people risk their health. There is no risk to health unless you're an idiot. Someone who doesn't know how to maintain a healthy diet is just as likely to become unhealthy and obese eating meat as opposed to malnourished when abstaining from meat.
You also asked: why? I answered that in my previous post.
>>25527921 same mate, i don't bring it up either unless someone asks, and when i tell people usually girls won't believe me at first and say "are you really!?" and shit like that, but then don't seem to care. and guys will either not give a shit or start getting defensive and make jokes or something
i probably won't bring it up to guys unless necessary as they seem to get really pissy for no reason and it will just start arguments
>>25528324 not him. but why would you want to cause unnecessary harm anyway? pain is horrible for humans and if you see these any of those documentaries you can tell the animals don't like it
so i guess empathy is the reason why? those documentaries fucked me up desu. because they aren't nature it's just terrible fast food companies exploiting terribly made meat for some fat fuck to eat another 10 burgers with the money going to some other greedy fucker
just like with humans i would really only harm another living creature in self defense or survival like if i was stuck on a desert island with no other choice or something
For the sake of their self*. If I can gain sustenance through other means, anything through other means, without inducing the suffering of others, then why wouldn't you? What possible reason could you have to prefer the suffering of others? Apathy, that's why.
>>25529477 you currently don't need those things to survive, i find it unnecessary for pain and death to be caused when i can eat millions of other things that don't experience that pain. but you do think it's ok, that's where our opinion differs, there's no point continuing this argument since we have those different views.
I can't give a very good reason to this, but i guess the reasoning behind my belief is that we have evolved to become omnivores which basically means that we can survive on ANYTHING. However, i feel that now that we have gained the cognitive "superiority" over other species we are smart enough (and possibly "ethical" enough) to realize that we are at a point in our evolution where we don't need to eat meat to survive, and that showing compassion to other species is more important than our own "outdated" desires. I feel like we should be "stewards" of the earth and try to look out for all other creatures by not eating them. lol. Plus theres the fact that commercial agriculture uses so much of our resources and causes so much pollution that it's not even worth it. (sorry i'm gullible and bought into cowspiracy).
Idk. To be fair i'm really biased because i love animals.
And my main way of thinking is that i want to try to do as little harm as possible while im alive. Just because another species isn't as evolved as me doesn't mean they deserve to die or that i deserve to dictate whether they live or die. Imagine how sad a mother animal feels when you take away her baby for slaughter. If you don't believe me, think about what happens when you get between a bear sow and her cub. Or even in "less intelligent" animals. I believe that all creatures deserve at least the chance to live their own lives and determine their own fate. Some people like to argue that because we are the "most intelligent species" on earth, we deserve to eat meat. Because if that animal was stupid enough to get caught in that trap or fall for that b8 or get shot, then it deserves to be our meal. But i would say 'look at children/people with disabilities'. Would you say the same for them?
Sorry. i used a lot of quotation marks because i know i probably sound like a bigot and an asshole who's too high on his horse but i swear thats not how i mean to come off. I'm just slightly drunk so it's not coming out exactly how i want it to.
animals have little to no understanding of empathy. majority of them could not decide to become vegetarian because it is impossible from their mindset
also kfc or a mcdonalds is not "nature" that is exploitation. if animals were put on earth to be eaten they sure as fuck didn't intend for billions of animals to be harvested so millions of gluttonous fatties can stuff their mouth. and fill some ceo's wallet
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