Most of the users on 4chan are about as intelligent and understanding as your average cinder block. Most of what the mods would say about moderation would only cause further confusion and anger throughout much of the userbase.
>>411667 That's no excuse for them to ignore us. People are mad at them and for good reasons to. We want them to do a better job and actually do something to fix this place. They could air their grievances they have with us here and just let it out
>>411661 >>411667 >Translation: because people were mean to us in the past when they exposed our ineptness, we cultivate an air of smug superiority so that we don't need to hold ourselves accountable anymore.
>>411681 Imagine two people who are diametrically opposed, and then a moderator who is facilitating discussion between them. Anything the moderator does that benefits one group upsets the other even if that benefit also benefits themselves.
Oh wait, you don't need to imagine this because that's what 4chan is, except instead of two people it's two million and they're all snowflakes so complicated that no set theorist could ever come up with the right course of action.
Aside from that, in the event that a user does get a reply from a mod, that mod can expect at least 30 replies asking them a direct question about some other unrelated topic like the scene from this episode of Batman The Animated Series where Bruce Wayne tries to give money to a homeless person only to be mobbed by dozens of them. http://www.toon.is/batman-tas-1x08-the-forgotten-video_c97ddfebb.html
>Mods try to talk to the userbase and ask them to stop sucking >Piled on with asinine bullshit and "FUCK YOU I DO WHAT I WANT >Mods stop talking to userbase and just moderate as they are told >"WHY DON'T THEY TALK TO US ANYMORE I'M GONNA POST THE JANITOR FROM ARTHUR IN EVERY FUCKING THREAD THEY MODERATE NOW"
You know why the mods don't talk to us? Because 95% of us are fucking insufferable and make it harder to moderate, not easier.
>>413419 because swaglord is a power hungry idiot. He craves attention and he has no qualms about raiding other boards. He's part of what is wrong with moderation
>>413415 They don't do their fucking jobs though. They are known to have board biases, they are known to not do anything about shitposts on boards, they are trying to get rid of /tv/, they horribly moderate /v/ and /lit/, and they allow off topic posting almost all the time.
>>413421 This could explain why they do nothing about the Reddit spam. They seem to openly and secretly encourage this.
And fuck them if they hate us so much. They can go back to Reddit where they belong. All we ask is that they do their jobs, and yet they don't want to seeing as though we're "below" them. Seriously Hiro better back on here soon/
>>413424 >He's part of what is wrong with moderation He's still a mod and he still talks to the userbase at length, which contradicts OPs assertion that mods never speak. You should speak with him sometime. He's a nuanced and fascinating person.
>>411641 Having an invisible mod team makes them less accountable.
I've ran a few popular forums in the past when they were a lot more popular than today and we would always encourage the mods to lurk. As well as discouraging them from having an identity whenever we felt the voice of the users was growing louder than the staff's voice. I'm not a fucking political science theorist but it makes sense. If you don't know how your mods think and behave then figuring out (and thus, complaining about) their actions becomes near-impossible.
Whenever this happens you can always be sure that the staff of the site your on (or any organization) believes their opinions and ideas are inherently better than the user base's. I'm not condemning them for it, but it's something to be aware of. In their defense, how can you be sure that it's not just a vocal minority complaining about the site and it's moderators? Figuring out genuine ideas out of the massive filth that is 4chan would take actual work it's not like they're paid a salary.
Overall I think it hurt things. If there's no e-peen incentive then why moderate at all? You can see the shift: as soon as moot had the mods go invisible the quality of moderation took a dive (see /v/ for a perfect example).
most users have board biases, that's not fucking new. When's the last time you were on /y/? Never? Oops, you have a fucking board bias.
>not do anything about shitposts Half the time they do and it makes things worse because every time I see shitposting get removed autists flood the thread with "FUCK YOU MODS" and make the thread absolutely uninhabitable >they are trying to get rid of /tv/ /tv/ is a garbage board that's worse than /sp/ at this point. Same with /v/. They just have too many users for a mod team to effectively handle >they allow off topic posting almost all the time Because much the same as shitposting, if an off-topic, yet civil thread gets deleted the users have a fucking aneurysm and just start shitposting.
You want to know the real fucking problem with this site and moderation? Bans are ineffectual and meaningless. They're stupidly easy to bypass, meaning at best if you get knocked for being a fucking faggot, you switch off your router for a few and boom, you're back to being a piece of shit.
But you can't do anything about it without becoming more intrusive. You could have an account system but maintain board anonymity and that's about it, and we all know nobody wants that.
The very nature of an imageboard will simply become a deluge of garbage posting the more popular it gets, and moderation is effectively a bursting dam.
>>411686 Why even weigh in on these topics if you're incapable of even the slightest amount of objectivity?
This is clearly your personal opinion which you're entitled to, but sinking /pol/ would do no harm to the sight so the people who want that are hardly "jackasses", whether they're right or wrong for wanting it.
>>413434 >most users have board biases, that's not fucking new. When's the last time you were on /y/? Never? Oops, you have a fucking board bias. That's fine...for the userbase. Not for a moderator who's job it is to clean up boards and do their job.
>Half the time they do and it makes things worse because every time I see shitposting get removed autists flood the thread with "FUCK YOU MODS" and make the thread absolutely uninhabitable Because they are shitposters upset their shitpost got deleted. Anyone complaining about a shitpost getting deleted should get their comment deleted and get banned as well
>/tv/ is a garbage board that's worse than /sp/ at this point. Same with /v/. They just have too many users for a mod team to effectively handle /tv/ is being purposely destroyed. The mods hate it and moot hated it.
To answer your final sentences, then the only way to fix things is to do what /pol/ does: ID's. /pol/ doesn't mind at all and it will help mods easily able to identify who exactly are the shitposters in the thread
>>413433 I can go into a long debate about every single fucking mistake moot made, but in the end we would reach the same conclusion: moot in the end became a moron who made his site worse because he didn't give a shit anymore. Hiro needs to make them visible again, and he needs to be informed of what the mods have been doing, what the mods think of the userbase, and to explain to him why we need these changes. I personally think having some of his Japanese buddies on board might help a bit.
>>413447 >There IS no way to fix things because ultimately the userbase doesn't want it to be fixed. The userbase DOES want things fixed though. People are getting fed up with the moderation on here. Its getting sickening
>If you legitimately wanted 4chan to be fixed you wouldn't bitch and moan Oh so then we let the mods do whatever they want to do while they continue to fuck things up and we sit there and take it?
>>413451 The userbase isn't one person. One person may want the board to be a shitpost heaven while another wants it to be a concentration camp of moderation. You see all the time people bitching that mods are deleting fun and that mods aren't deleing shitposts when in reality they are basically the same thing just seen differently by different people.
>>413452 Hey retard, you do know shitposting threads have been known to stay up for hours on end on /v/ and other boards right? /lit/ had a lot of them, /vp/ did, /tv/ really does, /m/ does, /mu/ does, hell the list goes on and on of shitposting threads that never get deleted. This is a major fucking issue, and you don't' see that because you never go there enough to see it for yourself.
There's a difference between a fun thread and a shit thread. A fun thread would be like Santa hats on /v/, while a shit thread would be an Undertale thread that is meant to bait people.
>>413442 >Anyone complaining about a shitpost getting deleted should get their comment deleted and get banned as well Nobody wants to stay up for 10 hours repeatedly deleting the same shitposts by the same retard (and all of his retarded friends). For free, at that.
Unless you're a fan of range bans handed out like candy (and just by browsing /qa/ you can see how well that works out) bans do nothing against the most incorigible shitheads.
>>413469 Not gonna work anon. Most people these days are only aware of the cult of personality surrounding him, not the fact that it started because he was banning people left and right and other people thought that was hilarious.
>>413497 You're probably thinking of another leak anon. The IRC chat logs are real, and if any of these retards actually read them at length they'd realize their "calculating oppressor" bogeyman is asinine.
Every grievance about 4chan moderation listed ITT can be explained away by understanding two very simple concepts; staff have poor communication habits and are perpetually understaffed. The former is the reason why mods don't post (ie accidentally create precedent without approval) and the latter for why shitposting on large boards is often left untouched (majority American staff means that hours outside their time zones are havens for shitposters).
The only reason there is any debate on something so readily evident is because these faux social activists are ideological contrarians. You can tell that much by the "us vs them" language they use when discussing their upsets on this site. And no matter how many times you push their shit in they keep coming back and spewing their entitlement issues whenever they get the chance.
I'm pretty sure the moderators absolutely do interact with 4chan's userbase all the time; they just do so anonymously rather than busting out le purple palm tree every time they want to call you a faggot. And I'm fine with that. If you start a thread about 4chan's moderation policies, you will often get anonymous replies from people who seem to be suspiciously knowledgeable about how the moderators feel.
However, I think it's important that moderators should feel roughly the same as the users they are moderating. If you're moderating /sp/ and you don't like banter, your desires will be different from the other posters, and the conflict will be detrimental to the board. Similarly, I've heard complaints that the people in charge of 4chan are all turbo-Tumblr SJWs, and while I've never seen anything to suggest that, it would certainly be a bad idea if it was true. It's fun to call a stranger a nigger, and if you start banning people for doing that, you're going to be banning a lot of people who haven't done anything wrong, because 4chan is where those people come, and the moderation policies should reflect that.
Finally, while we're discussing moderation policies, I have a suggestion for /sp/: allow off-topic posting in general threads, but not in other threads. That way, you can still have the board culture that /sp/ wants, but it won't be harming the threads that aren't cancer. It seems like the perfect compromise. I'd do things that way if I was a moderator (although if I was a moderator, I would also crack down a lot harder on that guy who posts CP, so clearly the fact I don't like paedophilia obviously disqualifies me from a moderation position).
>>413512 They also think they're above us and have a massive superiority complex. Their piss poor communication skills does not make up for the fact that they have destroyed /d/ and /tv/, have been known to have massive biases against certain boards, are known to entice their favorite board to go raid another one. You know which mod and board I'm talking about. The mods have severe corruption issues. That is a fact and you simply cannot deny that. There's more then enough proof to show Hiro how bad things currently are and why we need to start not only hiring more mods, but also making sure they follow and obey Hiro 100%. That means get rid of anything moot told you because he no longer matters
>>413606 >but also making sure they follow and obey Hiro 100% And what are they doing right now that hiro told them not to do? Are the word filters that a dastardly mod installed behind hiro's back destroying /tv/?
Fucker has a day job. And his English sucks, to boot. He doesn't have time to sit around micromanaging a shit ton of boards he doesn't understand.
>>413606 >They also think they're above us and have a massive superiority complex Prove it.
>they have destroyed /d/ and /tv/ /d/ simply became the Japanese-art-only board it was always intended to be. The fact you're still salty over it after nearly two months means you're an obsessive autist.
/tv/ is all shitposting and memes. Any serious discussion is hand-waved as being literally Reddit. How would you fix what the majority of the board wants? Throwing more mods and janitors on it only creates more ban evaders and doesn't solve the fact that /tv/ doesn't want to be a good discussion board.
>have been known to have massive biases against certain boards Oh no, people on 4chan have preferred boards! Woe and despair that staff can have opinions!
>known to entice their favorite board to go raid another one. You know which mod and board I'm talking about You talking about Swaglord and his [s4s] board meme scavenging hunts? If that's what you're talking about, it's literally harmless.
>The mods have severe corruption issues Apart from moot having been a nepotist who kept redwood a mod despite knowing he was shilling his own threads on /co/, what corruption exists with staff? Or are you throwing out corruption as a buzzword hoping it sticks?
>why we need to start not only hiring more mods, but also making sure they follow and obey Hiro 100% As if that isn't already the case? He owns the site, if he felt any of the moderators were abusing their powers he'd have already canned them by now. Even if mods disagree with how Hiro manages the site they can't actually run rogue. They already obey any precedent he makes because that's what they volunteered to do.
Also, any new mods they install are simply long-time janitors, so if you think staff is irredeemably corrupt already, how is promoting more of them going to help the situation you've convinced yourself exists?
>>413700 >Prove it. The IRC logs showed it and proved it. Also swaglord, he's a perfect example of this
>/d/ simply became the Japanese-art-only board it was always intended to be. The fact you're still salty over it after nearly two months means you're an obsessive autist. Because it killed the community and turned it into a futa only board. The mod on there went crazy, ask anyone on /aco/ they'll tell you.
>/tv/ is all shitposting and memes No shit. The mods hate it with a passion. That's why they allow all that interracial porn stay up
>You talking about Swaglord and his [s4s] board meme scavenging hunts? If that's what you're talking about, it's literally harmless. He's breaking the rules of the site. And its not harmless "fun". He's doing it to piss off people who are talking about the mods. He hates getting criticized and hates it more when no one is sucking his cock
>Apart from moot having been a nepotist who kept redwood a mod despite knowing he was shilling his own threads on /co/, what corruption exists with staff? Or are you throwing out corruption as a buzzword hoping it sticks? They delete threads they don't like for one. Talk shit about Nintendo? You're banned. Talk shit about Playstation? Totally okay! Mods have severe biases and you know it, so don't deny it faggot.
>As if that isn't already the case? He owns the site, if he felt any of the moderators were abusing their powers he'd have already canned them by now. Even if mods disagree with how Hiro manages the site they can't actually run rogue. They already obey any precedent he makes because that's what they volunteered to do. They've already gone behind his back a few times. The word filters were not Hiro's ideas and the mods never ran it by him at all.
>>413718 >Also, any new mods they install are simply long-time janitors, so if you think staff is irredeemably corrupt already, how is promoting more of them going to help the situation you've convinced yourself exists? Its called hiring more mods who DON'T have ties to moot.
I don't even know why I bothered explaining all this to you. Its clear you're a shill for the mods and janitors. Anyone defending a mod or a janitor on here is either a mod or a janitor themselves.
>>413466 They're always here because their shit site never works. Always crying about mods, about how 4chan is "dying", making threads about why people still use 4chan, trying to make new boards for gamergate, posting their bans, etc. They're easy to notice by their bitter attitude and false information in their posts. They hate moot, mods, the users that never migrated to r8ddit and life as a whole I guess.
>>413434 >You could have an account system but maintain board anonymity and that's about it, and we all know nobody wants that. I wonder why? Oh wait, I know. A large portion of the userbase is retarded and don't want to be held accountable for their actions. That's why so many people even like it here. Easy attention, and you can't really be punished for acting like trash.This website has only gotten worse slowly over time, and it can only continue to get worse if it continues on the path it's on right now. I'm one of the few people that really want an account system in place on 4chan, because my posting habits on 4chan don't revolve around acting like an unthinking piece of garbage at every other turn. Yes. Having to log on to 4chan just to post normally as we do now would vastly improve the website. The people that would leave because of such a change don't care about 4chan enough in the fist place.
>>413718 >The IRC logs showed it and proved it. Also swaglord, he's a perfect example of this Wrong. The logs amounted to nothing but the type of drivel you'd expect from a typical chatroom.
>Because it killed the community and turned it into a futa only board Wrong, it turned it into a Japanese-art-only board. Again, as it was always meant to be.
>That's why they allow all that interracial porn stay up You're delusional and you conflate them being understaffed as intentional absence.
>He's breaking the rules of the site I can't believe someone is this assblasted over Swaglord memeing on them. Hilarious.
>They delete threads they don't like for one. Talk shit about Nintendo? You're banned. Talk shit about Playstation? Totally okay! You're delusional and you conflate them being understaffed as intentional absence.
>Its called hiring more mods who DON'T have ties to moot. You're either retarded or just unwilling to use your brain.
>>414210 /d/ was exactly as much of a futa-only board before /aco/ as it is now. /aco/ caused different problems than making it a futa-only board. It did cause problems, and making it a futa-only board is not one of those problems.
>>414212 Not really. /d/ had futa, but it also had a lot of other fetish threads that were banned from /d/ because the faggot mod believed they were "Too Western". By banning western art on /d/ because "/aco/ is for western porn now", /d/ was effectively killed, along with its community thanks to the mods, who in the past had no fucking issue with western art on /d/. It was only when /aco/ got made did the mod of /d/, who many believe is kittenmod, went full on Nazi and deleted anything he didn't like.
/aco/ didn't want /d/'s fetishes, that's not what it was meant for. But thanks to incompetence or possible sabotage from the mods and the fact that Hiro seems to blow it off, /aco/ is a fucking trainwreck of a board. I really have a feeling the mods are doing their best to keep Hiro in the dark about /d/ and /aco/. Why? Because I believe the mods purposely did all this damage just to piss off the userbase. The IRC logs showed they hate us. To them this was one huge joke.
>>414261 Shortstacks for one, and those were always popular threads. Xeno's got ran off, those were popular threads.
>>414262 It would help to fucking make giant ass stickies on /v/, and actually enforce the rules. If we had more mods on this site actually policing the boards and cracking down on shitposting, you'd see an improvement
>>414264 Cute theory. I just want you to know that, "I want the mods to do their job and enforce rules to make /v/ better" and "I want to change the rules and get the mods to stop enforcing the current ruleset to make /d/ better" are both opinions you have. You both want to trust in the mods and have no trust in the mods at the same time.
There are other websites, you know. You don't even need a passport to leave 4chan.
>>414270 >There are other websites, you know. You don't even need a passport to leave 4chan. Typical mod response; hear something you don't like and you go right into "W-Well you can leave this place"!
And maybe if the mods/you did your fucking job on here, we wouldn't be so pissed off at you. I want the mods to do their jobs, but that's apparently impossible for them.
>>414271 >What has you convinced that harsher moderation on /v/ wouldn't do to /v/ what it did to /d/ Because /d/ wasn't infested with shitposters and Redditors. Harsher moderation on /v/ will likely drive off the normies
>>414279 No, but seriously, why do you think you are required to stay here if you dislike it so much? Do you understand that this is symptomatic of a mental disorder if you can't simply walk away from something that upsets you?
>>414287 Because the mods like to fuck around and piss people off. Also they don't want to be exposed on here: deleting posts they don't like exposes them. But since they've done it a few times we know they lurk the anti-mod and anti-moot threads
>>414292 No, they don't want to expose themselves as people who delete things that trigger them. Like talking about moot badly enough and calling out their numerous fuck ups over something that really triggers them.
But like I said, they've already done that, so we have proof now that they do lurk here and they do from time to time delete posts and ban people.
>>414256 Everything abut 4chan would stay the same. You would only need to log in to post as we do now.. Nothing else would change. No usernames, upvotes, profiles, or PMs. Everyone would still be anonymous. This actually is a good idea because it would clear most of the shitposters out. Most of them wouldn't bother making multiple email addresses and signing them all up. Of course the bigger shitposters will never leave, but this idea would slow them down.
>>415006 There are two ways to do that. One is by being called shills for Google, Yahoo, or whatever other Email services you white list, and the other is by blacklisting every single temp email service, which is absolutely impossible. Several websites intentionally make a new URL for temp email addresses every hour.
>>415040 I'd honestly go for the "shill" option. There are a good number of long-term email providers, and most people use them anyway. Anyway, I still think it would be a good idea. You'll never get rid of the worst people, but the general quality of the site would improve with some kind of bare-bones account system.
>>411667 If you can't explain something to a stupid person you don't know enough about it to be talking about it. If team HP can't explain their shit to /b/tards they should never have been put in the position. No fucking excuses.
>>413414 >people who can see through bullshit rhetoric are the reason why the mods don't post official more often You are trying to personally criticise anon for a point which makes the moderation team appear inept. Stating that the reason why mods don't post more often because not everyone is a dumb sycophant isn't exactly the smartest way to support your smug arrogant attitude, pocketsくん.
>>414063 Mods are like waste disposable guys who drive around once a week and empty your bins. Whether or not people complain about it or have fucking putrid garbage, there is no fucking excuse for the bin man to not take out your rubbish if you have the bins in the allocated spot once bin day rolls around.
Your reasoning is fucking moronic. If they aren't going to do their jobs because of people saying mean things, why in sweet fuck did they get the position of moderate on fucking 4chan of all places?
>>415619 >stupid person I don't think you understand. These stupid people have already made their minds up before they actually understand what is really going on, and will fight tooth and nail to try to look correct, or sometimes even try to look like they have fair opinions about it. These people don't look at both sides of an argument, they focus only on their point of view and only listen to what they want to believe. It's not that they can't be told, it's just that they won't listen because it doesn't line up with their views.
I am a mod of a popular MMO (not going to say which one).
I don't converse with the users because:
They always want something They don't understand how any of it works and make incorrect assumptions They ask for things I can't do (dev shit) They blame dev fuck ups on me They don't understand what mods do They blame me for what other mods do They have a low opinion of mods no matter what They will most likely misinterpret anything I say Lastly, I just don't fucking care what they think because a lot of them don't try to understand the other side of things
Basically there's no reason to talk to them. It's much easier to do my job in silence and pretend to be a regular user, just like them. That is my personal experience, but it seems to be a common sentiment among the staff. The knowledge gap (for lack of a better term) between the guys behind the curtain running the show and the audience is just pointless to overcome.
>>415623 Way to completely ignore the post you facetious fuck. Don't pretend like you know the people here, like you've been here long. Following the bullshit generalisations which don't match experience and spot the newfriend.
>>415624 It doesn't matter if there is a small army if they don't do their fucking jobs in the first place.
>>415626 Either facetious or fucking stupid. Mods are here to remove posts which should not be here. That's like saying we shouldn't have police because polite society isn't a place to commit crimes. On second thoughts that glib and entirely irrelevant handwave is something a braindead mod would do. It reeks arrogance.
>>415625 The difference here is that the mods are newer than a good chunk of the users and know the site far less than most of the users. They brown nosed in IRC to get in good with the mods in the first place and was handed leadership when m00t got rid of and when the other mods left after his fucked up involvement with gamergate and disgusting moderation handling. The people involved now aren't there for their technical knowledge.
>>415635 Isn't 4chan always going to have that problem, though? Especially given 4chan's age, everything that happened last year, and the ownership change? I feel like this is going to cause problems for quite awhile.
I miss when mods would ban people just for humors sake Now people piss and moan even when they get a serious ban for actually breaking rules keep in mind that back then you couldn't even VIEW 4chan once banned, but people just waited three days and got over it instead of crying about it. This is a PSA that all /v/ posters deserve the guillotine. No one that isnt a fucktard could stand to browse with such shithead retards so nothing would be lost
>>411641 I just want to know why /vp/ has turned into the goddamned Wild Wild West with law and order sporadically appearing throughout the day if at all.
Do the mods and jannies hate /vp/ and leave it to rot because they don't think it's important or hate it? Or is it like the Wild West where you have to telegraph Santa Fe for the Marshall who is three days ride from you to arrest the banditos who robbed your train?
>>415617 If you added in an hour long cooldown period, it could work. Would prevent shitposters from just resetting their IP when they got banned, since they'd have to wait out the cooldown period for their new account before making posts from a new IP.
>>415905 The part where we were given mods and janitors because it's still a board. If left alone and unmoderated, you worthless husk, then the board becomes a heaping shit pile that spreads its filth to other boards and ruins them.
Every board deserves moderation. Every one of them does. Because it's a containment board should dictate GREATER moderation than other boards because of the volatile material discussed within.
>>415911 The problem is, to a mod or a janitor, a "containment" board is just that, a containment board. They don't care about these people because they want to isolate them from the rest of the world. /tv/, /mlp/, and /vp/ are all containment boards, and both right now /vp/ and /tv/ have some of the worst moderation on here, with /vp/ having absolutely none, and /tv/ being purposely ruined because the mods hated it along with moot. /mlp/ actually has decent moderation believe it or not, you'd be surprised.
>>415978 That's the fucking problem: The janitors apparently seemed to be assigned random boards. This could be just because mods are fucking incompetent, or they purposely don't want people to janitor boards they don't like or they want to see collapse into ruin. I really want to find that Facebook post about some faggot who was bragging about becoming a janitor on 4chan, when it was clear he was a newfag.
>>415985 See? More proof that the mods do not fucking do their jobs properly. They don't look into the backgrounds of people applying at all. That guy should have lost his janitor position and should have been given a permanent ban from the site as well.
My guess is he got the job because he made up some fake shit that was seemingly believable, but was so fucking stupid he bragged about it on Facebook and everyone found out who he was
>>415991 What this tells me is that we very well could have 16 year olds as janitors on here. You see how fucked up the janitor process is? Not only are underage newfags getting hired as janitors, but they're getting assigned to random boards they don't like, thus they don't care about doing their job. To them being a janitor is more like bragging rights.
>>416048 See, that's just it. A lot of people come here thinking they should act dumb all the time. It's almost like some people have a 4chan switch in their heads. "I'm on 4chan, time to act like a a fool!" Much of the userbase acts like they want the mods to hate them.
>>416187 >Please hiro, do it. Hell, make buying 4chan Passes a requirement for posting. It would be comedy gold. This is the last thing you want. If I had to guess the primary base for 4chan Passes it'd be very dedicated shitposters.
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