Why are there so many Christians on /pol/ these days? It's a meme right?
I got an epic anti atheia bread right now guys. Check it out!
Most "christians" these days don't:
>read the bible (because they know it's bullshit)
>believe anything that comes from the bible (see above)
>don't go to church regularly or at all
>never donate to any charity or do any volunteer work
These people shouldn't be allowed to call themselves christian imo baka desu senpai
I honestly hope so, they're doing a good job at being irritating.
You'd think that as a conservative-majority board, they'd be all over the benefits of abortion keeping people off welfare, lowering crime, and a host of other positives.
if you're not a 'Christian' how are you able to verify who is or isn't Christian?
Abortion diminishes the sanctity of life, so it has broad implications for all of civilization, well beyond the narrow scope of abortion. That is the Christian position, please keep in mind there is more to it than you imply.
>country becomes secular
>Atheist, SJW, liberal millennials vote
>"Imagine no countries"
>Millennials vote pro immigration
>New Zealand YES!
>secular women get enriched
>sharia law zones are made unofficially
>Czech'd and kek'd
I'm not Christian, i don't believe in God but i Love Christians. In my profession i have met and became friends with many Christians and every single one of them were good people.
Sure you got some dickheads in their but at heart they were good people.
I will most likely marry a Christian woman because at least then i know she has good values and isn't a whore.
You've got it backwards. Lack of abortion diminishes the sanctity of life for everyone.
Which is fine if you or your SO don't want to have an abortion, just keep your beliefs out of other people's business.
It's sort of a meme, but at the same time it isn't. I'm sure that a good 50% of the people here don't believe in god, but still don't consider themselves atheist because of how cancer most atheist are. You know what I mean (le fedora, le richard dawking, le enlightened, etc.). Compared to that, Christains are so much better. They are usually more driven, have hotter wives, and are just overall better/more enjoyable people.
Many admit to being cultural Christians.
I'm an atheist but I agree with Dawkins that Christianity is the European bulwark against Islam. I try to only criticise Islam even though I'd prefer a world without organized religions. Just deists and atheists.
The religion that encourages slave morality and that states that to your god your are like a sheep - a mindless follower.
All of western civilizations achievements came after secularization, if Europe had clung to Christianity completely it'd look just like the Middle East.
4chan attracts contrarians.
It's as simple as that. If you've played any manner of class based game with 4chan people you will quickly notice that the least played things constitute a majority among the 4chan players.
>Responsible for nearly all major advancement
This is why people don't take you seriously.
Besides pic related what exactly has Christianity directly contributed.
You are completely wrong.
Honestly look it up.
And no, we don't follow mindlessly, we follow because of our faith which is established in evidence that our Lord is true and just.
I'm sorry you don't know anything about what you're talking about. But I don't expect anything less from New Zealand. You are actually dumber than Australians and I didn't think that was possible.
Pick up a book you stupid nigger. Accept that your religion is the most effective form of large scale population control ever and its clearest effect is that it brings down the strong for the benefit of the weak.
Nicholas of Cusa
Pretty much everything.
I could name hundreds more, but you can research yourself if you really want to know.
Secularity came from the enlightenment, which was based on a movement away from Christianity and on texts brought back by crusaders from Islamic libraries that the Christians had burned as 'pagan' but the Arabs kept for academic purposes.
Atheism in places like the U.S. is different than it is in places like Sweden. Since most of your population is atheist, being an atheist isn't really a big deal, but in places like the U.S. (where the atheist population is small) people who are atheist think that it's some sort of accomplishment, and they go to such great lengths to tell other people about it. Some of them are as bad as hardcore Christians.
Yeah I think that's part of why we're in the situation we're in right now. Religion is just so incredibly non-essential here that a lot of people just don't get how much of a big deal it is to religious people, like the Muslims for example. They simply can't fathom the lengths a man will go to for his faith. It's just comforting words in times of need and pretty ceremonies for us.
I can say the opposite in that it was their religious faith which made them so curious and passionate to learn about God's creation.
So go back to reddit with that garbage.
As I said, I can name hundreds more.
Many who are alive today and are still Theists.
I'll give you one to start.
Eben Alexander .
Go ahead and look him up.
Blah blah blah, we had that one post with a million gorilion replies of /pol/cucks saying they appreciated christian culture and what it's given humanity but aren't themselves religious. We also mostly agreed that we'd raise our children religious just cause. I didn't cap it and I'm not looking through the achieves for that shit. Stop being so new and start being /new/. Much like christianity, your people also have a rich culture. Aussies are born and bred verbal loo pooers. Embrace it and come back when you have better bait.
>Christianity and Islam are just as bad as each other
fuck off back to Reddit then
I didn't say they were Islamic texts, Tyrone, this master slave relation you have with your god really does suit your people doesn't it? I said they were copies of European pagan texts that the Christians burned but the arabs didnt
Going to have to explain your reasoning there christcuck
Because I see nothing but the pope washing Muslim feet and declaring that Jews are going to heaven even though they deny Christ
Oh and Protestants going to third world nations to help the niggers and spics and housing migrants in their churches
I don't think so. It has been.
No one cares, Ahmed. Do I really need to keep naming people who have made scientific advancements and are Christians if not at least theists?
Let alone I already named Bacon and Newton who are arguably the most important?
Scratch that, I'm not going to waste anymore time on you. You're a scumbag that hates religion to be an edge lord ever though it's accomplished more and helped civilization in a greater way that you ever will, than your whole shit stain country will.
NZ officially worse than Australia.
I don't hate religion, not am I an atheist I hate foreign monotheism. And if we're done I'll close by saying I hope you wake up from your Jewish mind control eventually, even though it seems beyond you.
They were Christians in name alone. When you have nothing but wooden telescopes it's easy to come to the conclusion that "God did it". However as civilization progressed and new ways of understanding the Universe arose scientist didn't need god any more as an answer to the gaps. This is why as time progressed you see less and less scientist holding strong if any religious beliefs.
I went to church this evening.
There was a special Filipino sermon or something like that and an Archbishop was here. He is the Observer to the United Nations, if I remember correctly.
I took communion. I don't even know if I can, I honestly haven't been to confession in like 7 years now. But it said only if you haven't confessed grave sins, but I don't think I've committed any grave sins.
Of course I've gone to church and taken communion tons of times in those 7 years, but it's starting to bother me a bit now for some reason.
>93.9% of Icelanders younger than 25 believed the world was created in the big bang, 6.1% either had no opinion or thought it had come into existence through some other means and 0.0% believed it had been created by God.
>Jewish mind control
The story of christ is the story of the archetypal enemy of judaism.
>A man stands above, rebuking the jews in their iniquities
>The jews hate him, try to reveal any weakness they can
>The man is undeters, tries to bring the jews back to the path they claim god lays before them
>The jews get the goyim in charge to murder him
>The jews call the goyim that did their dirty work antisemites
There's a reason we hate jews, YHWH is the devil.
Robert T. Bakker (born 1945): paleontologist who was a figure in the "dinosaur Renaissance" and known for the theory some dinosaurs were warm-blooded. He is also a Pentecostal preacher who advocates theistic evolution and has written on religion.
Robert J Asher: palaeontologist and lecturer at the University of Cambridge Department of Zoology and a curator at the University Museum of Zoology. His book 'Evolution and Belief: Confessions of a Religious Paleontologist' was published by Cambridge University Press in 2012. Dr Asher is also a former Curator of Mammals at the Berlin Natural History Museum and Frick Postdoctoral Fellow at the American Museum of Natural History.
Brian Heap (born 1935): Biologist who was Master of St Edmund's College, University of Cambridge and was a founding member of the International Society for Science and Religion.
Please, go back to reddit with your 16 year old arguments.
HUR DURR some of the greatest minds to ever live just said fuck it God did it and had no reason for saying so.
It's not like Newton wrote prophecies based on the Bible.
Anyway, those 3 I just named are alive today, so your argument is trash. I can name several more. But I'm done, anyone on /pol/ that isn't a complete idiot is already a Christian.
That's the first time a post on this site made me laugh so hard in a while, thanks Tyrone
>atheists pride themselves at being rational
>denies a Creator when the universe itself is proof based on the simple logic that something cannot come from nothing
they actually believed those protons at the dawn of time just willed themselves to existence lol f,am
Eben Alexander (born 1953): American, Harvard-educated neurosurgeon best known for his book, "Proof of Heaven", in which he describes his 2008 near death experience. In a recent interview, Dr Alexander said: "It's time for brain science, mind science, physics, cosmology, to move from kindergarten up into first grade and realize we will never truly understand consciousness with that simplistic materialist mindset."
Ok. if Christianity is so necessary fo human advancement then why did the Roman Empire start to go to shit when it adopted Christianity as it's state religion? I' not saying Christianity is a bad thing.
I'm saying scientific advisement isn't tangible to the rise and spread of christianty
The idea of all semitic monotheistic religions is submission. If the entire population has a submissive slave mentality pushed on them by the church they are less likely to rebel. That is the reason why the Roman empire spread Christianity to begin with, because it's easier to control an empire of slaves.
>something cannot come from nothing
>EGSEPT GOD :DDDDD
You realize how silly that argument is right?
>The idea of all semitic monotheistic religions is submission
>"But if you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one!"
The ideal of judaism is rule by subversion, the ideal of christianity is virtue, but not complacency, the ideal of islam is conquest.
not a maymae
christian reporting in
also dont trust auzzies and NZ
that is also not a may may
Everything you take for granted and like came out of Christianity's separation of "reality" and "whatever the ruler says." The Chinese are garbage precisely because they do not have this.
And the Roman empire went to hell welcoming in massive amounts of unassimilariable immigrants, and its twin went down fighting Muslims. Christianity was welcomed in both because it was seen as inevitable and because paganism had totally lost all credibility, and it re-energized Rome.
Christians riddle me this.
What the flying fuck does resurrecting a dead man have to do with being a deity?
We could possibly revive people in faster spans than three days soon. Does that mean we can become gods? You guys mix up your super powers.
See, what you're doing is called special-pleading as an attempt to either end infinite regress or to reply to "something from nothing" -- which isn't even what the Big Bang says; but, whatever.
It's not damage control.
No theist will ever say those words because none of them will ever say God was created.
Your post is not possible.
Everything does need a cause.
God doesn't because God wasn't created, God is eternal.
It's really simple if you weren't as intellectually comparable to an African.
christian is such a loose term these days.
there is nothing to tell you how to be the best christian in the world and nothing to stop you from falling out of the religion and changing it to something else. there is also nothing preventing you from being a christian either.
it's like saying "i am someone who wears blue shirts". it's meaningless.
Nah m8 your argument was retarded
>G-d is outside the universe therefore he doesn't play by its rules
>Before there was a universe there was strict rules exactly the same as the universe so G-d must have done it
I've noticed this too.
Here's my observations:
Some of them are satirical trolls which get a kick out of making people cringe.
Some of them are agnostics which cringe at their own stereotypes and desire to associate with a "tried and true" identity.
Some of them are desperately seeking to rekindle their romantic European historical fantasies of the way things used to be, as if they were better.
>doesn't even deny any of the cuckery
I've had christcucks try and tell me that "as christcucks we should help these refugees and immigrants"
This is a common occurrence trying to use God etc as a bludgeon to act of of suicidal charity against my race and nations interest
>putting all christians under a blanket term
/pol/ has tons of anglican retards
If you're not catholic just kill yourself now. You're going to spend eternity in purgatory anyway, why care about a few decades on earth?
> >G-d is outside the universe therefore he doesn't play by its rules
Prove their's an 'outside' to our Universe first. Then you can move on to proving things could exist there.
While your at it proving anything sentient without a physical brain is possible would be good too.
Well I'm a "christcuck" and I think the refugees are faggots who should go back and fight there own war.
They're fucking grown men, grown men being pussies, shit this is a fucking sin in there heretic books.
Because the means of resurrection are super natural and not the means of super advanced science.
Can we bring them back to life without any tools or help from inventions? No. So no, we aren't Gods either.
Something cannot come from nothing. Those are just laws of physics. Time didn't create itself. So something created time.
You do realize what the term 'dead' means, right? It means that the brain has lost all function, and, as a result, the body that it controls and keeps alive is also dead. No advancement of science can fix true death. God, however, can.
Then why aren't their theological beliefs taken seriously expect for impressionable idiots like you then?
>HUR DURR some of the greatest minds to ever live just said fuck it God did it and had no reason for saying so.
Just saying God did it is an excuse for not wanting to do the hard work that goes into scientific research
>It's not like Newton wrote prophecies based on the Bible.
I like how you explicitly rebutted my point instead of getting butthurt about my spelling or grammar.
>Americans stop being Christian
>crime and rape rates rising
>media turns all the world except third worlds into atheists
can't wait to see what comes next in this more enlightened world! reminder Jesus LITERALLY died for your sins
m8 desu not everyone is going to be on the same level as us, and as sad as it is that they won't know the same joy that we will, this prolly isnt the best way to go about it.
as far as the whole where did God come from, for us God is. God transcends our ideas of space and time, those rules are simply the system or rules he created for our universe.
For us trying to say we can fully comprehend God or how he works just isnt possible.
I am okay with that.
>thinking Christianity is on par or worse than Islam
I hate the concept of a magic man dictating our actions, but you can't seriously think that Christianity is what we should be worrying about.
It's not a meme, retard, lots of people are Christian. Christianity is an expanding religion, there are more of us today than there were yesterday. What universe do you live in where this isn't true?
>It's a meme right?
Start a thread accusing the Catholic church of concealing the body of Jesus in Vatican City and watch how fucking mad they get.
It might have been a meme at one time, but now we've got a bunch of clowns that seriously think roleplaying as crusaders on the internet is "redpilled"
Uh, how do you know your deity didn't just use technology you didn't understand? Maybe this is his third Universe and he's just getting the hang of it.
> Can we bring them back to life without any tools or help from inventions? No. So no, we aren't Gods either.
Yeah magic is cool and realistic when you're young. Maybe that's why it was so appealing to you? Our inventions seem to work better than your deity. I give him like a C- at best.
>It might have been a meme at one time, but now we've got a bunch of clowns that seriously think roleplaying as crusaders on the internet is "redpilled"
Roleplaying is a side-endeavor to redpilling, thank you very much.
Yeah... because Newton and Bacon weren't responsible for the most important scientific advancements.
Which they did do that hard work for.
>published in Cambridge
>teach at Cambridge
>Graduate from Harvard
So many other major scholarly accomplishments,
>they must be stupid though
I can't speak for them.
Obviously those people are idiots like me too.
I wonder what does that make you?
Let me know when you go to Harvard or Cambridge.
Let alone teach there.
Also, to actually answer who takes them seriously, anyone else who shares the same beliefs, which are many other scholars.
Now go back to reddit please.
The thing you can't prove exists fixes the fact that life on this planet is full of moving parts and moving parts will always one day break.
So really you believe because you're afraid of death.
okay its t b h and f a m filters to desu senpai
didn't know it did that lol
see quote from the guy who basically invented quantum physics
> The universe can't create itself.
Says who, you? No one knows what happened before the big bang. Making up shit doesn't help.
As in you have no answer.
> Something outside of yourself created you.
My mom and dad bumping uglies.
> Same applies to anything that needs to be created.
Same applies to all things after time comes into existence.
You still have a sore lack of evidence and are chock full of bold and non-humbling assertions.
global atheist % actually dropped last year
even fucking Dawkins is now spouting about the benefits of Christianity to civilization
people are getting increasingly tired of overplayed liberal degeneracy and sandnigger enroachment
we're set on a comeback if anything, DEUS VULT.
>still getting butthurt
I'm pointing out how you were spotted, moshe. I'm acting in good faith so that you might hide your identity and lose credibility in future threads.
But if you want me to refute your point moshe, fine
>before the universe there was a strict set of rules just like the universe
Literally why is there any reason to assume this is true moshe?
Would you take what the Bible says about it as satisfactory?
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
If you are on my side, you can do the research, there are much more detailed answers out there. More than I can convey in a post on 4chan.
Yeah, I know familia. It's just sad.
topkek. Since you are entertaining the idea of my deity all science and medicine comes from that deity, as we are the Lord's creation and all knowledge is given to us by the Lord's doing.
I'll give you an F. I recommend you go back to the kiddy pool at reddit.
>Literally why is there any reason to assume this is true moshe?
There isn't you absolute retard, the person I was responding to implied it.
Did you miss my meme arrows?
>Americans in charge of reading
> topkek. Since you are entertaining the idea of my deity all science and medicine comes from that deity, as we are the Lord's creation and all knowledge is given to us by the Lord's doing
It's kind of kinky that you call him your Lord. I was always fascinated by the cult father figure that is the forefront of Christianity. Problem is you haven't proven your boyfriend exists. Which means nothing gets to be 'his' creation.
>not addressing the actual argument
anyway since a jew like you is butthurt about it I guess that's a great endorsement to promote Christianity
because seeing every prosperous benevolent human nations are based on Christianity and they only started going to shit after turning their back on God.
Are you conceding that there is a Creator now at the very least?
It isn't satisfactory to a disbeliever or a skeptic. No argument I've seen is satisfactory from that viewpoint, and I kind of resent it being presented as if it will change minds. It's like an argument I read in a theological book once (I think it was partially an analysis of Luke?) that stated that Jesus was god because he died for our sins. He did, yes, but how is that proof that he's god, even if only god can forgive sins? It pre-supposes belief and/or assumes spiritual events skeptics won't accept before proof has been provided.
Why it's always atheism related with SJW and liberalism? I don't believe in religion and I hate faggots, I hate niggers coming to my country an also I don't like the situation on Europe. I love my family, I like to help people when I can, I don't need a religion to be a good person.
>Roman empire went to hell welcoming in massive amounts of unassimilariable immigrants
Watch any credible lecture or talk to any credible historian and they will tell you the exact opposite. Rome fell for a number of reason but mass immigration was not one of them
> and its twin went down fighting Muslims
Ironically enough if it wasn't for the Christian crusader who sacked Constantinople it would've lasted longer being a Bulwark against the East.
>Christianity was welcomed in both because it was seen as inevitable and because paganism had totally lost all credibility
No it wasn't you stupid nigger Constantine saw Christianity as a means to an end to secure and maintain his power nothing more nothing less. He couldn't have cared less about Christianity. Even after his death you had Pagan emperors trying to fix the damage Constantine had done.
I like how you ignore what my post was actually about.
Physics say so. That has nothing to do with Apologetics.
It's common knowledge in the scientific world that something can't come from nothing.
Yet you had the audacity to question this simple fact of life because of what it was used to explain.
Come back when you aren't 17 anymore.
All you do is move the goal posts.
>hur dur you say everything needs to be created so what about God
We explain that God wasn't created.
So you go on to well you didn't even prove he exists hur durrrrr
I don't claim to be super smart or anything of the sort, but to play the formal logic game while using ad hominum and strawman isn't the way to go about proving your point, but then again I'm taking the bait so maybe it is
and for what its worth, logic was probably my least favorite class I did enjoy stats and my finance classes though.
also I'm okay without knowing 100%
besides as someone who liked stats pascals wager has an effect on me personally
Maybe if you were smart enough to graduate high school you would get accepted into a good school and you would learn that for yourself.
But considering you are the biggest kind of idiot, I don't see that happening. So sad for you.
> As many ad hominems as I can stuff.
I'm a senior in college and I'll have my Masters soon after that. Does that make my point more or less valid? I think you should look in the mirror long and hard.
> Fuck off and give evidence.
Haven't been paying attention to the boring shit but it seems like you guys need this meme:
Also, more feminine trannies? If only to piss off the sensitive people.
Lol no. You don't categorise one genocide as 'just as bad' as another if the first killed twice as many people as the second; why would it vary here? Furthermore, the Christian radicals that you speak of exist in FAR smaller numbers, and the Christian moderates are much more open that the mudslimes. Someone pull up that blue graph circulated around here.
Whites can't be Buddhists though. They lack the collectivist autism for it. It's always the 420 namaste hippie faggots who adopt it to seem enlightened and one with the universe.
What kind of evidence do you want?
Do you want logical proofs?
Have fun in high school kiddie.
Maybe you will eventually learn something.
The universe itself is evidence of a creator because of causality.
>BUZZWORDS BUZZWORDS IF I USE ENOUGH BUZZWORDS THEY LOOK LIKE THEYRE SILLY
If you were educated about the wager, you'd know that it wasn't meant to prove the Abrahamic God specifically. It isn't even meant to necessarily be interpreted as the "WELL IF YOU'RE RIGHT THEN NOTHING BUT WRONG THEN HELL" shit that fedoras think it is; it's a thought process that's about putting personal belief on following the laws of the deity you believe in.
>Taking powerful metaphorical stories and accepting them as literal truths is harmful for society.
and yet our societies were literally founded on the practice and did nothing but prosper for doing so. While we attempt to create a new society founded upon the rejection of the literal truth of powerful metaphorical stories and slip into decline.
I'm pretty sure high profile physicists don't take the bible or quran or whatever book literally without scepticism. Scientifically, there is a fair case for deism for instance, even the biggest fedoratippers can't deny that.
Most religious scientists fall under casual religion and are not zealous or irrational. It can coexist with science definitely.
It becomes a problem when they impose their religious values on science.
There's technically an infinite amount of deities that could exist. I'm noticing about as much evidence for yours as all the rest of them.
Speaking of not being legal yet. Only twelve-year-olds care about how old you are in an online board. I'm almost thirty so please keep calling me a little; it'll only turn me on more.
God chose the Jewish, judean, Hebrew people to show HIS power. The Jewish people were, if you look through history, not that great, every nation kicked them out of their place yet they still rose to such great heights, why? Because God told them to believe in me an I promise your children an your childrens children's an future descendants would never fail an they will be safe. This is what Christians know because it is in the BIBLE, IF YOU WOULD JUST READ but no you would rather stay ignorant an just blame the jews Or blame whatever you want your afraid of the truth, why do the jews stay at top when everyone sees how the world is because GOD never breaks promises, the BIBLE explains thing's very clear but your afraid because things in this world have proving to you other wide to not put faith in anything, but GOD NEVER breaks promises
those are really only christians in the loosest sense
they don't agree with the bible and don't really give a shit if you're not a christian
undoubtedly, but it applies to christians on a large scale
Anyone under twenty-five is probably an idiot to begin with. Nice attempt at an insult and yet still not an arugment.
> babby's first high school debate course
I wish people like you actually paid attention in high school.
> Maybe actually read texts on philosophy and rhetoric if you're so enlightened.
Then after you actually read the Torah, the New Testament and the Koran you can see for yourself why Yahweh is such a douche bag?
> Then come back and apologize for being a sophomoric moron.
I despise people like you. The ones who pretend to be humble when they can't even admit their own ignorance.
You can't see before the big bang, new friend. Your Thomas Aquinas won't save you.
He was just shifting the burden of proof.
Which is not what you do. You should have known that.
The question is what would be accepted for evidence?
We have the Bible. We have historical recordings of first hand accounts of people who said they saw the resurrection of Jesus. We have causality. We have the 5 ways.
We have multiple logical proofs.
Unfortunately all you people want is God to come down and give you His autograph before you believe.
>Yeah... because Newton and Bacon weren't responsible for the most important scientific advancements.
Fucking idiot, If it wasn't for Newton's religious beliefs he would've done more.
Newton invented Calculus on a dare basically but when he decided to bask in the majesty of God and no longer ponder questions to how the Universe worked preservation theory took another hundred years to be invented. There is nothing wrong with being a Christian but when you try to use God as an answer to scientific questions then it becomes scientifically pernicious because it distract people away from the hard work of answering scientific questions. It's just too easy to say oh God did it therefore we don't need to answer it.
and my I ask which Ivy league school you went to? The same Ivy league schools I bet you shit on for being SJW factories and bastions of degeneracy but now you hold to such high esteem.
>The question is what would be accepted for evidence?
it's almost as if god is an illogical concept
>We have the Bible.
fairytales are proof of dragons of course
>We have historical recordings of first hand accounts of people who said they saw the resurrection of Jesus.
"historical" "first hand" accounts, right
>We have causality.
so who created god?
>We have the 5 ways.
Without evidence any which way we have no idea what the probability of one to infinite amount of deities existing is.
> There's technically an infinite amount that can exist
> yet insists that none exist
I'm not insisting a deity doesn't exist I'm pointing out there's no evidence for any of them.
Children have no hips, no ass, no toned chest and no experience. What a fucking waste of time and ew.
You can't prove that so your post is meaningless.
Cambridge and Harvard don't accept any of the crap happening at Yale.
It was also many years ago when it actually mattered.
Aside from your rant do you actually have anything you want to say?
>that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
hence the whole faith thing anon
You have to WANT to believe in God, you have to realize there is no evidence either way and you have the power to choose what you believe.
You cannot physically find God in the Universe, because God is not a part of the Universe, nor can you come to understand God by dismantling the universe into it's constituent parts, anymore so than you learn to understand your best friend by dissecting them with a scalpel.
>The 5 way are empirical as what they assert can be repeated
no, they aren't
"things move, therefore a wizard did it" isn't empirical evidence
>Something can't come from nothing.
so where did god come from?
The first piece of pottery ever discovered depicted dinosaurs. But they just got lucky and happened to replicate something almost to the dot that they never laid eyes on sure thing m8.
Yes, historical first hand accounts.
God has always existed.
Logical proofs that cannot be refuted.
I'm a drunk as fuck retard who majored in History.
I know all about the Roman Empire and the early Christian church.
You want to know about the origins of Christianity?
No one can really believe this shit is real if you know how it evolved through time.
>It's just too easy to say oh God did it therefore we don't need to answer it.
but we don't need to answer it, the mysteries of the universe are a meaningless intellectual curiosity nothing more. The more questions you find the answer to the more questions you discover, it never ends.
It's certainly an interesting diversion but in the end none of it really matters. What difference does it make at the end of the day whether people think the sun is a gargantuan fusion reaction or a flaming chariot?
>The first piece of pottery ever discovered depicted dinosaurs. But they just got lucky and happened to replicate something almost to the dot that they never laid eyes on sure thing m8.
oh the ica stones
no proof that they're legitimate in the scientific or academic communities
>Yes, historical first hand accounts.
massively edited, retranslated "first hand accounts," sure
people have "historical first hand accounts" of bigfoot and the easter bunny too, you believe that shit?
>God has always existed.
this is incompatible with "something can't come from nothing"
>Logical proofs that cannot be refuted.
"logical proofs" that don't prove the existence of god, you mean
Jesus was a representation of the sun, in a primitive worship just the the other sun deities
Thats why he had a halo behind his head, he was literally the sun..
"The Son of god"- The sun.
12 deciples, the 12 constellations.
3 kings visited him on his "birth"-Orians belt etc.
What gets me is that I can understand people practicing and hoping a religion is real, but I can't believe anyone honestly believes it's true by any reasoning in their mind. Every time anyone is asked to justify why they believe, they just shrug and give a non-answer. If you're not already a "believer" it's literally impossible to believe since there's no way to rationalize a belief in magic without evidence to support it.
>Don’t let it escape your notice, dear friends, that with the Lord a single day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a single day. The Lord isn’t slow to keep his promise, as some think of slowness, but he is patient toward you, not wanting anyone to perish but all to change their hearts and lives.
>Without evidence any which way we have no idea what the probability of one to infinite amount of deities existing is.
Where are these infinite gods coming from anon? Are you making them up in your head?
If so then logically they can't be God can they, since you just made them up. So obviously the only gods that could possibly be a contender for legitimacy are the ones that were believed in before the intervention of the imagination of modern man, which narrows the field considerably I think.
Get that Zeitgeist shit out of here.
Most of those are inaccurate. Isis, for example, was definitely not a virgin.
Jesus was not a modified solar deity.
However, that doesn't mean that Christianity didn't incorporate a shit ton of contemporary religious symbology.
Christianity is the first true cosmopolitan religion. It started from the bottom and worked its way up, snagging bits of shit from everyone it passed through.
The Halo is a remnant of the solar disk is Greek art, which itself is a remnant of the solar disk is Egyptian art.
It's multilevel derivative.
Remember that Christianity for the formative years was a primarily Greek religion. The first language of the New Testament was Greek.
The three Magi has nothing to do with Orion's belt, by the way.
Yet they are recognized in both of those communities.
It seems you think I'm talking about the Bible, which I am not. Also, prove they are edited.
No it's not.
God didn't come into existence. God was always there. Works fine.
No, they do. That's why they are called logical proofs.
Zeitgeist was full of lies and deceit. Neither jesus nor horus nor mithra nor dionysus were born on the same day (nor any on december 25). I don't know about the other false gods but Dionysus was definitely not born of a virgin, but was conceived by zeus.
>Yet they are recognized in both of those communities.
as being fake, yeah
>It seems you think I'm talking about the Bible, which I am not. Also, prove they are edited.
there's a reason we call it the "king james edition"
>No it's not.
yes it is, if something can't come from nothing, where did god come from?
>God didn't come into existence. God was always there. Works fine.
but he can't have always been there because he had to have come from something, since nothing can come from something
>No, they do. That's why they are called logical proofs.
but they don't, and they're not, except by idiots
No I'm saying that while those ancient Gods could certainly be the product of some fertile ancient imagination we cannot definitively say that they were. While on the other hand we can definitively say that any hypothetical god that you choose to imagine is strictly a product of your imagination.
> Where are these infinite gods coming from anon? Are you making them up in your head?
Who knows where they are? Have you seen any lately because if you even talk to a single one I'd like to know.
> If so then logically they can't be God can they, since you just made them up.
They would exist or not regardless of whether anyone thought of them. The question is; why is there no evidence for any deities?
I forgot about Dionysus.
Let me tell you about his "birth".
So Zeus was cruising Earth, looking for sweet human broads to ream.
He comes across a cutie and takes human form.
He tells her that he's Zeus in human form, and she has to pretty much fuck her.
Hera sees this however, and gets jealous.
So she comes down to Earth as an old woman in the young woman's entourage.
She tells the girl that if the man (Zeus) is really a god, she must make him swear to show her his true form. Specifically, the girl must make him swear by the river Styx.
So, after fucking, the girl asks the man (who is Zeus) to promise her something on the river Styx. Zeus is smoking his cigarette and is like sure baby whatever.
She tells him to reveal his true form.
Zeus goes "Oh shit", and because an oath on Styx is unbreakable, actually does it.
He goes full God.
The girl burns up in the awe of seeing his true form.
Zeus, in his pity, takes the fetus and sews it into his leg.
A few months later, out pops baby Dionysus, who Hera exiles to a lonely mountain.
But that's another tale
the concept of infinite gods is retarded. Christian
God is of another kind than any other creature, so multiples of it could not even exist. That's the point of monotheism, it's of another kind than anything in the universe.
Some stones are definitely forged that doesn't prove that all of them are fake.
I'm not talking about the Bible, did you even read?
God wasn't created holy shit.
Hahahaha. I am now remembering why I don't waste time with you anymore, I let my /pol/ friends do it.
But to argue like you, yes they do, and they are, except to retards like you.
I don't see why any claim would be given more clout simply for being old. If something can be imagined today it could be imagined then, and it makes sense that there are thousands of different types of gods and creation stories as a result of humans having strong imaginations. Find any tribe that's not had contact with the modern world and the majority of the time they'll have some form of belief in magic (though this is not 100%, as there have been tribes found with independently generated secular beliefs who think it's just nature. No god needed)
That's not the way that works anon.
The fact that we did not have evidence to support the existence of the Marianas trench prior to it's discover does not mean that it did not exist prior that.
Not unless you want to go down some very weird and anti-scientific metaphysical roads anyway.
>You can't prove that so your post is meaningless.
Obviously you never done Math beyond Calculus. If you look at Pierre-Simon Laplace's work and compare it to Newton's you can see it would've been crumbs for Newton.
>Cambridge and Harvard don't accept any of the crap happening at Yale.
It was also many years ago when it actually mattered.
Just looked into it and I'll give you that one. However what do you think of all those scientist, physicists engineers, etc etc who've come out of their that don't believe in God? Are they just retards who've felt for the atheist meme? What makes your cherry picked lot so special that they see beyond that.
Like I said before the rise and spread of Christianity isn't tangible to scientific advancement.
but why would anyone accept that the trench exists on faith until someone demonstrated that it existed? Can I believe in imaginary volcanoes on the off-chance one happens to actually exist somewhere?
>Some stones are definitely forged that doesn't prove that all of them are fake.
>I'm not talking about the Bible, did you even read?
did you even see those firsthand accounts of bigfoot?
>God wasn't created holy shit.
then where did he come from? something can't come from nothing, as you say
>But to argue like you, yes they do, and they are, except to retards like you.
right but if someone told you that the marianas trench existed and you asked how they know, if they threw their hands up in the air and started talking about wizards, you'd probably think they'd hit their head fairly hard
I'm not asking you physically where they are coming from anon. I'm asking you who these infinite Gods are.
If you have to mentally make up a god then logically it isn't God since you literally just made it up, unless you also believe you are capable of mentally willing things into existence. In which case clearly you think that it's actually you that's God, and obviously have some mental issues.
This isn't complicated anon.
>The more questions you find the answer to the more questions you discover, it never ends.
If that's the case than I can argue that God is an ever retreating one becoming more obsolete with each new discovery.
>What difference does it make at the end of the day whether people think the sun is a gargantuan fusion reaction or a flaming chariot?
I think it matter allot if you're a scientist or an engineer. You know the people who are literally building the future for you chrittards
You're still not getting it anon.
It's simple rudimentary logic.
You cannot prove that ancient gods you personally did not think of are the products of ancient imagination. It is certainly logical to claim they probably are the product of ancient imagination but you cannot PROVE it.
On the other hand you can conclusively prove that anything that you consciously imagine was in fact a product of your imagination.
See the way that works?
Maybe imaginary vs. Definitely imaginary
That's not special pleading lmfao
I won't take any evidence of you being real other than seeing you. Therefore you don't exist right now.
God always existed.
If it has always existed it never comes into being you retard.
When I say metaphysical, I am referring to the fact that God is a deity who doesn't manifest himself in the form of physical matter. Perhaps I am using the wrong term. Anyways, I'm not trying to say that God created the universe. The universe has always existed, as has God.
How do you distinguish divinely inspired knowledge and imagination? You can't prove something was just imagination today any more than then if you're willing to believe in the possibility of magical knowledge.
It doesn't matter.
They choose to do so and while you can certainly call them foolish for believing in something without evidence, to claim that you know that what they believe in does not exist makes you equally foolish if not more so. At least they acknowledge their belief is rooted in faith rather than facts.
>if they threw their hands up in the air and started talking about wizards, you'd probably think they'd hit their head fairly hard
At this point in my life I think everybody is crazy and the whole world is mad. So as long as they're not physically threatening me I don't care what they believe.
but that doesn't make what I believe true. That's the point. If what I believe has no basis and I might simply be lucky about what I get right, what purpose was there believing it in the first place?
yeah it is
>these stones are clearly fakes
>b-but some of them might be real!
>I won't take any evidence of you being real other than seeing you. Therefore you don't exist right now.
maybe I don't. maybe I'm just an AI program. but here you have some evidence
>humans exist (you do)
>humans communicate via text (you again)
>the odds of random gibberish becoming coherent for so long on your computer are fairly slim
>as far as you are aware such advanced AI does not exist yet
so you have very strong evidence that I have to exist in some shape or form, unlike god, which has no evidence of existence
this is excepting the view of pure solipsism, in which case god still doesn't exist because all of reality doesn't exist outside of your perception
We are not talking about a specific god but the concept of infinite gods. If he is not consciously deciding to create this god with his mind then it's outside the purview of this line of argument.
I'm not talking about the average IVY league STEM graduate. I'm talking about the overwhelmingly non creationists big name scientist that have come out over the past few centuries. Most were Christians in name alone they didn't believe in your bronze age version of god but that parted the Red Sea or smite the philistines but in the god of Spinoza. A god of mathematics, beauty, and elegance.
Who knows maybe there is some prime mover in the Universe but an invisible sky daddy that listens to you and intervenes in people's affairs, very unlikely and highly laughable.
There is nothing that doesn't disprove cyclical expansion and compression.
Besides, it doesn't matter.
"Always" doesn't matter.
Time is a property of our universe.
Before our universe there was no time and therefore "no before".
Time is as intrinsic to our universe as distance.