Howdy do /pol/?
In my debate class we were randomly paired up and given a topic. I was given the Confederate Flag Banning.
The girl I will be debating is your typical college Leftist and naturally she wants to be on the side in support of the ban
Could you guys post some links or give me some tips to help me develop my argument? I feel confident that I can beat her, but I'll take all the help I can get.
Thanks fellow lovers of freedom!
Simple. If someone white kills someone black and poses with let's sat an merican flag. Would they want to ban it? What if a black kills a white and poses with an African flag. Will we ban Africa? All it is showing is flags kill people not rasism. So any racist defense is nul. Btw. I wish someone would fly a star wars flag so they can ban the star wars franchise
It shouldn't be banned because 0.5% of the people waving it are deranged Klans men while the rest are harmless beer chugging, trailer dwelling farmers. Even with its eyebrow raising origins, its current symbolism wasn't used to inspire hate but celebrate a culture. If we used small anomalies committing violence as a reason to ban something we should have banned rap music, the Koran, and hockey.
The flag is supposed to be a symbol of identity. There's more to the South than just slavery.
What do you think of when you see the flag?
Classy Southern Gentleman with manners?
Capt. Matt Berta, left, commander of Navy Region South East Reserve Component Command, stands next to Vice Adm. Robin Braun, Chief of Navy Reserve, as she presents a Purple Heart shadow box to the widow of Logistics Specialist 2nd Class Randall Smith and their three daughters, Thursday.
Smith sustained fatal gunshot wounds during the terrorist shootings July 16, 2015 at the Navy Operational Support Center in Chattanooga, Tenn.
Wear a Nazi flag tshirt and show it off during the debate.
Tell her that freedom of speech is for all speech. Hate speech is subjective. What may be considered appropriate today, is hate speech tomorrow.
If the Confederate flag is to be banned because it enslaved people and people died, then the Islamic flag of any Arab nation must also be banned and the communist flag especially should be banned.
Freedom of thought and freedom of association.
All you need is the inalienable human rights.
No one has the right to persecute any group or people for past wrongdoings. Or the hutus or tusis share collective responsibility, should they be punished? Should the mongol indentity be banned?
Don't attempt to argue about the civil war or slavery. Instead focus on whether the confederates were any more racist than the founding fathers, and his the confederates are being held to a higher standard that other historical figures don't face.
If your opponent doesn't argue it's past meaning, but argues it's present meaning, then bring up the numerous polls that show a majority of respondents do not find it offensive.
Basically this. If a symbol is represented as repressive to another culture. why isn't the symbols for it taken away then? Not everyone who wanted the flag was a racist.
Which confederate flag? There were many. Why ban the flag? Because its offensive to some? Shouldn't that same logic cross over to a Nazi flag, soviet flag, hell just about any flag is offensive to someone. Also do we ban the flag just in public or is it a complete ban?
An issue of censorship is rarely simple. The truth is we either have free speech or we don't. Even if that means we have to tolerate options we find distasteful.
>work as a security guard at a huge rock festival here in germany
>main task is to watch over a camping place.
>people put up different flags at their spots
>spot 2 big confederate flags
>dont give a fuck, dont know the history anyway
>next day 2 faggots come up to me
>complain about the two confederate flags, tell me to take them down because of the history bla bla bullshit
>tell them I wont as the flag isnt banned in germany
>faggots go to my supervisor
>supervisor tells me to take them down
I took them down but after a few hours they were up again.
>tfw people are butt hurt over the flag in Germany
You can't win this argument by doing pro-confederate flag arguments. You have to argue based on principles. Simply use freedom of expression as the basis for your argument - you can find many examples.
Though you need to specify the parameters of the debate. Is it only concerning government property? On the person's body (e.g. a tattoo)?
Though to be honest you seem stupid to me. Asking for help on 4chan suggests that...you can't put in the work required to win a debate. You should do your own thinking.
>Asking for help on 4chan suggests that...you can't put in the work required to win a debate. You should do your own thinking.
Did you even read the op?
> I feel confident that I can beat her, but I'll take all the help I can get.
Top fucking yeb.
I want to meet the guy who, unironically, attaches neuticles to his truck.
Now, I'm a dyed in the wool Texas redneck, but I would never turn my truck into a trap.
This is honestly your best course of action. However you cannot at all appear racist (argument gets thrown out) and you need to really work on your pathos. Feelings got us into this mess and they are the only form of communication that liberals understand. You need to out feel them and point out the lack of rationality in your opponents feelings.
For example, do it for the children, is a very common reason thrown out by manipulators.
Ban the confederat battl flag that nevr been as? Y not use the legit confederat flag instead?
I mean on one argument, you could say there is no problem with muslims...so there's no problem with one historical flag.
On the other you could explain that Many muslims and kids cold hard believe what they're are taught and a lot start to move towards isis recruitments.
the Union went easy on you pathetic loser pieces of shit because they knew they had to integrate you back into their society. what good would a treason charge do for interstate relations? confederates lost like fucking faggots and then got off easy. never forget that scum
Lmao, your flag is literally a flag of surrender. You lost the war and got burned the fuck down by the Superior Union for being faggots. You are the French of the US. You are probably white trash desu
So we ban the confederate flag and everything that has to do with it since it offends people and some people died, right?
Okay, what's next? Now that we have apparently gotten rid of the first amendment there must be other offensive things we can ban.
Hmm...You know I think a lot of Muslims aren't comfortable around the star of david. I know, lets ban all Jews! Yes just get rid of everything Jewish, since it offends people. What else? Hmm some people don't like muslims...you know because of 9-11 and similar things... guess we'll have to ban Muslims. What else? Oh i got it, Christians are offended by gays! We can ban those...oh but gays are also offended by Christians, guess we'll just have to ban both of them. Am I missing anything else? Some people might be offended by the American flag...lets ban that too! There don't you see? We solved bigotry! hurray
mine fought and died for a great man known as president Lincoln. they would be ashamed of any talk of "states rights". an attempt to dissolve this Union should be punishable by death. fuck right off
Yeah, he's arguing with some dumb bitch why he should be allowed to fly his traitorous Flag of Surrender
I see Southerners acting uppity about how they are the purest and most conservative place in the US. Also the most white. Unless, this means they are in fact a shithole infested with niggers :). You're not admitting the North is whiter than the South, right
>Calling us a traitor
You faggots were the ones fucking with and breaking The Constitution not us, we left because you wouldn't stop breaking the law.
To make it worse you sick fucks forced millions of Irish immigrants to die for your sick disgusting obsession with enslaving not just half the US but the other half of it as well.
Yes. That is what the majority of the South is. Not white, and thus a total shit hole
If you faggots didn't think that then you still wouldn't be flying your Surrender Flag
As a yankee, I can only hope the South will rise again.
If we are banning it because it is racist then we need to ban every racist symbol
Washington monument, Mount Rushmore etc
These people are morons who don't think through the consequences
You are a moron.
Work smarter, not harder. OP can spend all day reading historical bullshit, or he can ask the collective wisdom of /pol/ and get 20 different answers with no effort.
>implying utilizing modern technology and collective knowledge is not work
Best answer. Also, working in a reference to Islam would work and also be quite amusing for all involved.
>wanting to be a piece of white trash
Move to a trailer park then
kek, best defense you could have had right there.
I keep trying to get the Army to send me to Germany, my last name begins with "Sch" and ive got a ton of relatives over there. Is it still nice to visit or has merkel fucked it all up?
they believed america and its institutions were more than just a debate about property rights and whatever bullshit the south was peddling. we have a medium through which people can debate such things, your side just happened to lose and then threw a temper tantrum
Actually I have a masters in Electrical Engineering, and work for a pretty well known military contractor. You must be a fresh liberal arts major, because only a Liberal arts major would need to feel like they're above everybody.
>foreigner trying to tell me my relatives who fought for and preserved this union were not true patriots
fuck off you limey cunt you don't know the first thing about this country and its history
>your side just happened to lose
I already told you my family fought to the Union, they Supported Unionism
That doesnt mean they didnt care about states rights or the 10th amendment
Yes, each fucking county you retard. Meaning there's over 5.000 in each county. Meaning there's a ton of fucking niggers
Yes, it's literally infested with niggers
>Yes, it's literally infested with niggers
They use to be slaves, until something happened...hmm what was that again? Oh yeah you're great grandpa being the liberal cuck he was trying to "free da blackman"
Master of Law degree and undergrad degree. Good job grouping yourself with the white trash of the US by supporting a flag of surrender
you faggots didnt even want to fight the british in the beginning. we're the real patriots, not you, you inbred hicks. only good things to come out of the south are new orleans, southern cooking, and atlanta rap
come from germany and our forces were grey as yours in two world wars. we lost but my pride still fights. don't give a fuck what people think. just tell her the northern states just fought got the union, not for slavery. just search for northern states and when slavery was really abboned.
Most Union soldiers were debt slaves. I'm guessing your great grandpa was in debt and could not give a fuck about the state of the union.
Also he literally fought a 6 year war with an army of hillbillies. That should have been won in one battle. That's embarrassing.
Yeah but I thought you kicked them all out of your pure white paradise because you are so intolerant and hardass?
>niggers get liberated by north
>north is the true slave masters!!!
holy fuck this delusion. i don't like nigs bro but i recognize their right to self determination. south was morally bankrupt and disgusting. needed to be toppled
Triggered much Cletus?
K senpai. Constitutional law degree so the government doesn't get away fucking people. Seems like your upset that people earn money? Have fun being a poorfag
They tried, but your cuck great grandpa forced it on them. And then 100 years later when they had the negroes still in servitude your cuck daddy rallied for civil rights.
Seeing as your entire family is made up of cucks, I'm starting to think that being a cuck is hereditary.
>he uses cuck because he can't come up with an intelligent and coherent answer
Keep cleaning up the beer bottles in the trailer park Billy Joe. If the South is so strong they should've won. Don't blame us because you guys were so weak even the 50s and 60s you couldn't kick the niggers out, sounds like your great grandpappy was weak. Being a weakling must run in the family, just like inbreeding
I think about the struggles we endured to become the nation we are now. I really wish we had won.
Christ. No wonder Sherman was able to steamroll Georgia
>a half jew telling me how to act
Literally discarded. Good job being a kike. Also, your grandpappy was beyond weak because he couldn't even fight off nazis, he was literally the deifiniton of weakness and let the government kill his own people
I didn't say they were slave masters and I didn't say I support slavery. I say the wants and needs of the free people of America should not be superceded by whatever the people in DC decide is best for them.
If slavery is considered to be socially acceptable in the state it occurs in, who is a president that they didn't vote for to say they can't do it?
Yeah and got burned down to the ground and humiliated in front of world
Thats not the point of the question. It how can op debate against banning the flag in his class. He may not like the confederate flag or even be a southerner. Its an arbitrary freedom of speech debate assigned in a class.
You never went to laws school.
we live in a republic not a direct democracy. if you want to keep slavery then get leaders elected federally that will fight for it. don't get asspained and try to blow the whole thing up because you don't think certain people are human
The Civil War was mostly about States Rights. The reason people fly the Confederate Flag today is a celebration of their southern heritage and in support of States Rights, not slavery. Anyone who thinks the Civil War was mainly fought to free the slaves is an uneducated moron that just knows nothing whatsoever about history.
It has connotations with slavery because liberals hijacked the flag and used it in a fear mongering campaign in black areas, "Them whites wanna put you back in chains!! Look at that flag!"
You can't even ban the flag if you wanted to, because we have something called the 1st amendment. Banning it on government land only insults and demeans southerners and leads to a stifling of free expression. You want to see anti-government sentiment? Ban a cherished symbol of southern heritage.
France use to be a place of free speech, then political correctness and freespeeh reductive laws came by. Bullshit law like this, its only the beginning of the ride that never ends.
Now debate and politic are completely blocked.
We can't even speak freely without being charge of bullshit racism and islamophobia, pay fine and go to jail.
Spread the message my friend, do it for France
It always cracks me up that a lot of the same people that would bitch about government over reach, and taking away our rights would also call the Confederates traitorous scum. Face it the one time there was a real effort to stand up for Democracy, and States rights the Fed Gov cracked down brutally. Because it needed that Southern tax money.
The Confederate Flag itself also shifted meanings over time. By the later 20th century it was mostly just a symbol of Dixie. Which is why you could see it on the Dukes of Hazard Car, and it didn't trigger anyone. Leftist later decided to change it's meaning to a symbol of hate sometime around the year 2000. Many Southerners disagree, and still stubbornly fly it.
>Ban a cherished symbol of southern heritage.
my, and many other Americans' issue is that southern heritage is irrevocably tied to the heinous injustice of slavery, and thus the Confederate flag is too. any revisionist attempts to conceal that fact are disgraceful
>Why not destroy what the founding fathers created because you see fault with it?!
because that would be...treason? i have belief in what the founders created. if you take issue with a part of the system they built then try to get it changed from within. crashing the whole damn thing shows no faith in their vision and no faith in the United States
>injustice of slavery
I don't consider keeping niggers in chains "slavery". It's the same way that people don't consider keeping a dog on a leash slavery. At the end of the day, they're both animals.
>racist (argument gets thrown out
Fuck that, it's debate class. Bring sources, and then when they bring common talking points, ask for their sources. They won't have them, so you win.
The United States was built on treason, and by that point the nation had already been corrupted beyond their original vision. You can't appreciate the formation of the United States without appreciating the formation of the Confederacy.
arguing that the founders would want their system to be completely destroyed because it got "corrupted" is complete bullshit. why would they have built that system in the first place if they had no faith in its ability to reform itself? you are basing your argument on bullshit hypothetical nonsense
Why are you treating the founding fathers as one single entity? The Founding Fathers had no single vision, in fact they would argue what the constitution meant and their idea's for the future of the country until they all died, and even after that their families would still argue about the country.
I think the biggest injustice in this thread is you trying to say that beliefs of Thomas Jeffersons and John Adams are the same.
The entire point of the 2nd amendment is that arms should be taken up against the government if it becomes too intrusive. That was essentially their version of a failsafe mechanism.
>some of the founder would have supported the south!!
bull fucking shit. they ARGUED about what the constitution meant. they did not DECLARE WAR and dissolve the compromises that were created over a single principle. you are so full of it
Bud, if you didn't realize it I was addressing your argument stating that the Founding Fathers wouldn't want their governing system to dissovle. I meant in no way for what I said to pertain to the Civil War.
You need to set her up in front of the whole class so she looks stupid.
Lead her with questions that get her to say the confederate flag is hate speech, and hate speech can't be tolerated.
Then show a surprise picture/film of "right wing" book burners and ask her why she is a Nazi fascist?
B8 thread evolved into actual civil discussion. Nice job, /pol/
I was speaking in regards to your assertian that the Founding Fathers wouldn't set their system of governing to dissolve. I in no way meant for you to think I was speaking in reference to the Civil War.
was it in the interest of all the states to go to war in WW1 and 2? is everything the federal government does with our tax dollars done with the interests of a specific state in mind? if california tax dollars are used for disaster relief in Illinois should california rebel? that is a tenuous fucking union right there. it would never last any meaningful amount of time
Not really. The whole idea they based the Republic of off was to govern with the consent of the governed. If the people rise up against their government then it is obvious they don't give their consent. Doesn't really matter what the subject of the people's ire is.
>was it in the interest of all the states to go to war in WW1 and 2?
It was actually the North that almost left over the war of 1812
>california tax dollars are used for disaster relief in Illinois should california rebel?
If they no longer see an benefit from the union then yes
It was the beginning of the attempt to eliminate any idea of rebellion from the general populace. The media (with idiots and parrots) made it into a big deal when only the smallest of minorities that no one gave a shit about cared. They just said whatever the electric kike told them to, and they kept saying it.
I'm from NC, and the flag that is considered the "confederate flag" is still pretty big here in rural areas where we don't even have niggers. They're mainly in Charlotte and Raleigh. The flag here stands for fuck the federal government.
If you're talking about an en-masse complete ban making confederate memorabilia, especially the battle flag of Northern Virginia wholesale contraband....boy, it really boggles my mind that people would do that.
Although I would certainly hope that I would not be considered a statist, a local or state government choosing to remove certain symbols doesn't seem out of line. Granted, I think it is absolutely trivial and gat-damn retarded that people get riled up about the thing. That being said, I'm not likely to be stirred up over the removal of the flag from a governmental entity.
I'm in Georgia, though. I live very close to a "confederate st", where Sherman torched the whole place to the dirt.
I've got a boner for history, and admittedly, some soft spot in my heart for rebels or perceived underdogs. I guess plenty of people do. But I also think the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia has fucking gorgeous aesthetic value. I think it looks neat.
So if someone wants to take that shit down from above my bed, they can fuck right off or get perforated.
Here's an article about the flag showing up in the military post-Civil War. There's enough evidence floating around that the appeal and use of the flag isn't just for white supremacists.
>what is the benefit of California dollars feeding impoverished blacks in Chicago?
>where is the line drawn?
I kept telling you
When the Union no longer benefits your state and you would be better of alone or in a new Union
Wait a second, what is wrong with living in a trailer park? I've seen some decent trailers and it's a cheap place to live that allows you to be free of debt. I mean, how much unused space do people need? I live in my family's house and whenever I go see my friends in the city or the suburbs they always have pretty big houses but hardly any of the space is used. I don't even see the point.
I accidentally cut off the send part of you question
>what is the benefit of California dollars feeding impoverished blacks in Chicago?
>is that enough to dissolve the union over?
The Union has outlived its purpose seeing how we are no longer in danger of occupation by European powers
Hey, man. Don't you worry. I know that trailers can be cool. Mostly I'd say the sort of thing I'm looking to get in the future would be a well-furnished doublewide in a quite rural location, with at least 4-5 acres of land. Preferably wooded.
It's just that many folks living in trailer parks do not do so out of frugality, but necessity. Poor folks are generally less hygenic, intelligent, etc. In aggregate of course; being poor doesn't make you worse. But it can be very indicative in a predictive sort of way.
But I fucking love trailers, man.
He saying that your question answers itself. There is no benefit, therefore California should be able to refuse doing so. It's essentially the same argument used in the nullification debates.>>61223962
Are you mad that I can fly this flag with impunity?
See, that is all I needed to know. You aren't even a vocal minority in that opinion, you are a bottom of the basement tin foil faggot. This country has become something that you disagree with, and that is largely because of the Union and each state supporting the next one. Go ahead and secede like a whiny faggot. Deny all the history of this great nation in favor of your own selfish goals. You belong in the dustbin of history with the confederates
>Deny all the history of this great nation in favor of your own selfish goals
The feds have been striping us of our rights and importing foreigners for over 100 years
Please tell me what we still need them for.
I'm a bit upset that he isn't more eloquent in his defense of balkanization of the US, or dissolution of the Union.
I don't reckon I'd get along with him IRL, but I agree with him to a large degree. I try not to frame it in a "north V south" thing; although my loyalty admittedly is much stronger towards my small region of the Southeast than to the US as a whole.
I feel that the U.S. is far too socially, economically, geographically, ethnically, and idealogically diverse to be governed by a central body with maximum efficiency. I feel that balkanization (for example, the whimsical nation of Cascadia, or an Appalachian Union) would more adequately serve the interests of their respective citizens than the current federal government.
And although I do have plenty of beef with the federal government's actions throughout history (and even some commendations to give), this isn't the reason I feel this way. It doesn't amount to FUCK DA GUBMINT for me.
We're just too damn different to be governed centrally, I feel. That, and consent is a very important and sacred concept to me. Each member of an organization or union should fully consent to membership, without coercion.
Point out that a generation ago, liberals burned the American flag to protest the Vietnam war, and they faced persecution until this act was finally protected as free speech by the courts. The fact that it offended people was precisely why it was so important to protect.
If the conservatives back then had been as unsympathetic towards freedom of expression as the liberals are being now regarding the Confederate flag, the celebrated protest movements of the 60s and 70s would have been suppressed.
>reminder that there's going to be a HUGE confederate memorial day rally this August at Stone Mountain
>reminder that the first group to organize it was the Klan, and it's whites-only
M-muh heritage, not hate.
Your opponent is going to strive to make it an argument about racism and feelings.
Here's how you win the argument, OP - not with facts and figures and historical data, all that shit will just get ignored by your opponent and your audience. Fight fire with fire OP.
Draw parallels between the people your opponent is agreeing with and the worst humanity has to offer. You want to tear down flags and demolish memorials? How is that different than the Taliban burning museums or blowing up artifacts? You want to rewrite the history books to oversimplify the Civil War and paint 300,000 fallen Confederate soldiers as dumb hicks fighting because they hate black people? How is that any different from people who try to deny the Holocaust?
There is ZERO historical, legal, or factual basis for the positions she's defending. The ONLY way she wins this argument is if she takes the emotional/moral high ground. Take that from her and she'll have nothing she can fall back on.
I don't live very far at all from there, and I'm white as all get out. Along with most of my friends.
I wonder if it'd be interesting to go to. Wanna get a taste of their rhetoric.
I went their last November to take some pictures. Posted a thread about this one earlier but nobody cared. Last one there were about 5 Klansmen and 30 other guys. This one will have thousands of flag-wavers and possibly dozens of Klansmen.
Go, Anon. Wear a green shirt.
the confederate flag is an invention of the democrats and they only abandoned it recently.
I dont remember if the democrats created the confederacy before or after they made the KKK though.
but I know that if the democrats were behind it, it must be racist and used to promote slavery, which democrats have been doing since their beginning.
Seems like you went to an event there with a relatively small turnout.
What sort of rhetoric were they putting out? Keeping it moderate like "hey i guess blacks arent cancer or anything but boy we sure dont like them much so keep them over there" or going full "FUCK DARKIES KEEP EM OUT"?
I'm very interested to see what a modern KKK event like this would be like.
Basically they tell the media they aren't racist but then they throw up the Klan salute (looks very similar to the Nazi salute.) The wife of the organizer (also a member of the Klan) smiled and freaked out when there was a black guy that showed up, she got a picture with him, topkek.
"You no longer have a Constitution in this land. The most vile criminal people that ever walked the face of the earth now reside in Washington DC and they are your masters!!!
And Jesus Christ is going to bless this land?!
How dare you even consider it!!!
I'm asking you to make measly, miserable worms out of ALL Federal Agents! This is our country! When you raise that hand to feel the power, that comes from total absolute unconditional commitment!
We win or we die!!!"
DEATH TO THE UNION
I hope we hang every last fucking Northern piece of shit on the Day of the Rope.
KILL ALL NORTHERNERS NOW
It's the only way to save America.
Nobody gave two shits until Dylan Roof shot up that church. There's been a rally a month ever since, always crashed by the militias. The cop I talked to seemed overwhelmed, these are park cops, not state police, so they're outgunned and may even tell you they're scared something could pop off.
Fucking Rambo wannabes.
If he goes there expecting "GET RID OF ALL FLAGS EVERYWHERE REEEE" And gets "it's a flag symbolically representing an insurrection against the Government and therefore shouldn't be displayed in institutions of Government" he'll look like a retard if he goes with what you're saying.
we're angry because we thought this line of thinking would have stayed beneath Gettysburg, Antietam, Atlanta, Vicksburg, Shiloh, etc. it didn't. and it should have, because its so stupid
Sure is a shame that the whole Sieg Heil salute has poor connotations now. It really does look like the coolest sort of salute that I've seen.
Really what I'm interested in seeing is what they really SAY at the events. The video was rather interesting...doesn't seem that most folks in that video would be willing to have what I'd call real discussion. Shame on that too.
Interesting that near the end of the video the speaker tried to actively remove their event from KKK and other influences in the minds of the listeners.
Thanks for the link, bud. Makes the third shift go by quicker.
>without us Northerners you Southerners would still be busy guzzling Britain's cock
Reminder that the Continental Army was led by a Virginian.
Nice try you fucking faggot.
lmao nigga. reminder that we had to convince the South to join the revolution, because they were quite comfy as they were shipping their cotton off of Britain.
Sure is convenient when you can cut contextual words like symbolically out of there.
It wasn't the confederate flag, but you'll damn sure see it flown outside of Virginia. It's the flag confederates have latched onto in the modern era for one reason or another and represents for better or worse the confederacy.
>dress up like a retard feminist liberal with pink hair and glasses
>bring a flag to the debate
>say you are going to argue your position through interpretive dance in protest of the ban
>shit all over the flag infront of everyone after taking laxatives beforehand while dancing around it
its a sure win m8, you won't even have to study for it..
In South Carolina it was being flown at the capital building on federal property, and it's being flown over federal property in a lot of places like Mississippi. It's also still incorporated in a lot of federal symbols; Louisiana and Georgia state flags.
At Uni or job? Anyway one of the guys (not in the video) told me he was a reformed skinhead. Actually a super cool dude and can't wait to talk to him next rally. He told me not to try and fuck with or outsmart certain other members ("They're dangerous.") So basically I pissed in the wind and talked a bit with them.
Really would like to see a big /pol/ turnout this April though.
nope. furthermore, we've never been an all-white country. we've always been diverse. also:
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door
Our society is a melting pot, and that's part of what makes it so great
>should we ban X flag?
Where's the debate? It's a piece of cloth. It cannot physically harm anyone and 'emotional' harm is absolutely absurd.
That's like saying you need to remove niggers from public view because they trigger racists. It's absolutely retarded.
>and if intro philosophy is too advanced for your race traitor class, just sing
It is better to honor your ancestors and look a fool to traitors than bask in false applause while shaming the dead.
when you say ban do you mean from government buildings?
obviously you would ignore the flag itself and all of its symbolism and just clean up in 3 seconds by reading the 1st amendment if you mean a general ban
I'm at work right now, make a few shekels here and there at a motel. Also in university.
I'm actually a Psych (read: pseudoscience) junior, hoping to get a bullshit HR position out of uni to build up a small nest egg before graduate school. If the job search is as shit as I reckon it'll be, I'll be heading immediately to graduate school. Of course, assuming I keep my shit straight. I'm at KSU, btw.
That's pretty cool about the fella. I probably wouldn't go to a thing like this alone; would most likely take at least one IRL friend. Just, uh...makes me feel a bit better, you know?
As for my personal feelings, I feel that the more homogenous a society is, assuming that this homogeneity is conducive to efficiency and good moral fibre, the better that society is. So I can tend to be an ethnic separatist sort of guy.
..Not that I'd mention that in university or anywhere that isn't 4chan or internally within my close friends, lol.
I'm a bit bitter over our state flag change here in GA in the 90s or around 2000. Forget when it happened. Our shit still looks pretty dope, but it used to be fucking killer.
You based in Jo'ja too?
It was flown outside the SC state capital, pic related. It was on top of the building until a few years ago, but until 2015 it was on a memorial to the soldiers on federal land. I understand a private memorial, but it's on the land of the aggressor. There are no Nazi flags at German military memorials that I know of (although I have heard that there was a controversy where this happened once.)
>other federal symbols
The Louisiana flag has the battle jack, the Georgia flag is the same as the first Confederate but with the GA seal in the center of the star circle.
Virginia is not a country, it is a part of the United States. Government buildings are just that regardless of what particular level of governance they come from.
There are no living citizens of the failure of a state that was the Confederacy.
>t was on a memorial to the soldiers on federal land
link that it was federal land
>There are no Nazi flags at German military memorials
That is because germans are cucks that dont honor their dead
>The Louisiana flag has the battle jack, the Georgia flag is the same as the first Confederate but with the GA seal in the center of the star circle
Those are not federal symbols
>I'm at KSU, btw
Cool, bruh. Gordon here (inb4 shit college)
I wanted to get a psych degree for a long time but eventually settled on something else.
Yeah I hear what you're saying about ethnic homogeneity, but I tend to want a more religiously similar society than an ethnic one. I've always thought I was patriotic, and that being American means being immigrant friendly, but Christianity is what can bind everything together (even if I'm agnostic).
Also for the GA flag change, it's even more based. The flag the rebels rally 'round is the Naval Jack, this was the original confederate flag. GA is still holding a finger up to the Yanks.
>link that it was federal land
Second paragraph to make it an easy read
>lowered here from its place of honor on the grounds of the South Carolina State House
>not federal symbols
They're state symbols recognized by the federal government through senate and congress.
>There are no Nazi flags at German military memorials
That's because no one likes Nazis.
Not even Germans.
Except Northern businessmen of course.
>grounds of the South Carolina State House
That is not federal property.
>They're state symbols recognized by the federal government through senate and congress.
WTF are you talking about?
The feds dont approve state flags and symblos
Nice, don't know shit-all about your area or school. Good friend of mine originated from Griffin, so...there's that, I guess.
Of course, what it boils down to is that we both likely feel that we are maybe a bit more sapient than most folks, and we think we have a relatively good idea of how a society should be formed for superior efficiency and satisfaction. What we'd like is a bunch of people that think as we do!
I can surely agree with your points on religion being a very positive thing, in certain applications and situations. I've been involved in thankfully extremely genuine Christian organizations since I was very young. Although I hold very divergent beliefs from them now, I still volunteer tons and have been on mission to Mexico a few times. Naturally, I try to present the illusions to them (successfully!) that I am a model Christian. It gives them comfort and happiness, and doesn't compromise my set of ethics.
Anyway, I'll agree with you that distilled Christianity is very conducive to a properly-run society. Hell, it all ends up amounting to "don't be a fucking dick" and "help eachother out fucking cunts" when you take out the dogma added through centuries.
>States are sovereign entities dipshit
They SHOULD be, but you're speaking as if your ideals were being practiced.
Ever heard of the supremacy clause, bud? Federal rulings will trump state ones erry' goddamn time. Sure, I feel that any union or confederation should have full consent of the entities comprising it. But don't pretend that is the reality; very wishful thinking on your part.
When there is no codified procedure for leaving the organization, and the organization has authority that supercedes your own, how the FUCK are you sovereign, my nigga?
>States are sovereign entities dipshit
You're laughably wrong, or contesting over a hundred years of constitutional precedent.
States have limited sovereignty to act within their own borders and regulate themselves, but the limit is pretty fucking critical to say the least. Conduction of diplomacy, for one.
There's been lots of change over the history of the United States, but think about how most States actually even began to exist and the idea of them as sovereign nations starts to break down almost immediately; how many countries on Earth began at a specific population amount with the approval of a parliamentary body of another Government? It makes no sense for independent, sovereign nations. It makes perfect sense for territories, provinces, and states under a federal government.
>Ever heard of the supremacy clause, bud?
Because the states agreed to enter into the constitution
The Feds dont own their land
Virginia property is not property of the Feds
The Feds can only say what they do with it as it pertains to their constitutionally defined powers
How many members of the constitutional congress were Blacks or Indians?
>but the limit is pretty fucking critical to say the least
Are they limited in what flags they can fly?
>The Feds can only say what they do with it as it pertains to their constitutionally defined powers
You're talking about an entity that, without really even trying hard, successfully passed a measure suspending habeus corpus for US citizens; allowing for indefinite detention without formal charge, on basis of national security.
You're talking about an entity that can LAWFULLY detain an individual for the rest of their life without a public charge.
What about the federal bureaus taking part in imminent domain against private citizens?
And you're claiming that state's rights activists actually WON and we're living in a place and time in which any U.S. state can supercede federal authority if they jolly well want to, and the feds don't blast 'em?
I don't think any reason will get to you here.
>it's a flag symbolically representing an insurrection against the Government
By that same argument the American flag represents insurrection against the government. The Alabama and Florida state flags represents allegiance to the Spanish empire, and the Hawaiian flag represents British subjugation.
>and therefore shouldn't be displayed in institutions of Government
It never was in the first place. The flag was displayed at a Confederate war memorial located across the street from the capital building. Similarly the war memorials and cemeteries being removed or defaced are also not government institutions.
By all means, he should prepare to argue the facts of the case as well, but let's be fucking honest here - it's a girl taking the side of the pro-censorship argument... she ain't gonna be arguing based on facts and data.
Come on don't exaggerate. From 1790 to 2000 the white population was always between 80-90 percent of the whole. Until quite recently it was various white mostly Western European cultures that make up the melting pot.
>How many members of the constitutional congress were Blacks or Indians?
my point is, they were very much a part of our society. thus, we were never a fully white Christian society; we've always been diverse. Which makes you and your ilk's resistance to immigration on the grounds of maintaining this country's white cultural heritage kind of weird and nonsensical.
The Feds dont give a shit about about the constitution
If you look up in the thread I have been saying the Union should be dissolved
You are the one that argued Virginia buildings are Federal property
Also even though the Confederacy no longer exists the state of Virginia is the same one that fought in the Civil War
slavery. freemen. the fact that we had to deal with the Indians so much (French and Indian war). We regularly traded with Indians (before raping and killing them). There were thousands of black slaves in the colonies for pretty much as long as the colonies had existed. you can't just say they don't count because they weren't considered citizens; they're still there
Yes, I'd say that the current administration has little care for the constitution.
And practically I disagree with your preferred dissolution of the union as a whole; while ideologically I likely do agree. For different reasons, I think,.
But you're claiming that the states ARE sovereign, based upon the constitution (still a faulty idea but I'll concede that to you) while you're also claiming that the federal government does not care a lick for the constitution.
You see the rub?
Claim that the states SHOULD be sovereign, that's fine. But don't claim that they ARE, on basis of a document that you say is ignored anyway.
The states ain't got a tooth in their mouth against the federal government at this time.
>the fact that we had to deal with the Indians so much (French and Indian war)
Yes we fought them
>there were thousands of black slaves in the colonies
Not many in the North
>(before raping and killing them)
Not nearly at the rate they did
>they're still there
They didnt play a significant role
1st amendment Freedom of speech. Banning the flag is censorship of ideas, and attempting to police opinions of people.
There's more to the flag than slavery. It is the flag of a conquered people, southerners, and to them it is their history and heritage.
Be prepared to counter her arguments.
>The flag means hate.
Rebuttal: Ask for her source that the flag means hate or represents slavery. Just because it is used as a symbol by a few racists in the KKK. It means history and heritage to most of the people who fly it.
>The flag offends people
Rebuttal: Making laws to keep people from offending other people is against the Guaranteed right that we have as americans to free speech. Our free thought and opinions are guaranteed.
Yes, prepare your own arguments. But to win a debate, you have to successfully stump HER arguments. so think of every argument she can possibly come up with, and prepare a logical argument to refute it.
statistically, we were never a "pure glorious aryan nation" like some people on here like to say. That's all. And you overlooked the freedmen, and all the peaceful dealings we had with the indians
>Yes, I'd say that the current administration has little care for the constitution.
and just about every other one for the past 100 years
>And practically I disagree with your preferred dissolution of the union as a whole
>the feds violate the constitution
>be we need to keep them around for some reason
Could you be an even bigger cuck?
>Claim that the states SHOULD be sovereign, that's fine. But don't claim that they ARE, on basis of a document that you say is ignored anyway.
I am claiming legally they are
>The states ain't got a tooth in their mouth against the federal government at this time.
40 senators fillibuster the debt ceiling and the Feds collapse
>"pure glorious aryan nation"
Where did I say that?
>And you overlooked the freedmen, and all the peaceful dealings we had with the indians
I still consider them foreigners
The First Amendment has restrictions on certain kinds of speech. She could easily make the argument that it shouldn't cover hate speech (as 4 out of 9 SCOTUS justices think) and that the Southern flag falls into that category.
Wait, are there actual government buildings that fly Islamic flags and marked with their symbols?
Or is this just another knee jerk photo by an ignorant fool?
Should we ban the Union Jack? As it is a symbol of Total Capitalist World Domination and Opression? Reminder that the Brittish Empire invaded pretty much everywhere in the entire world, and would sure to trigger the opressed abos.
they invited a bunch of muslims to come pry on the white house lawn
Maybe next time they should host a klan rally?
Also, the southern states had different flags before the civil war and throughout history. Why do people get so ass blasted over one flag that represents a 5-10 year period in a 250+ year history?