>>61189600 It was a big subsidy scam. The government reverted the decision do to subsidize solar power last year. It turned out to be a big pile of shit and now there are derelict solar plants littering the landscape. Thanks Obama!
>>61189975 No shit but, faggot leftist have no fucking understanding of this because most are just suburbia bastards who think living in Portland gives them a understanding on environments of Germany or Sweden for finding viable energy.
>>61189951 Because nuclear has become some kind of negative buzzword used by leftists. They can't comprehend anything beyond that, and the only talking points they can bring up is "B-BUT MUH CHERNOBYL, MUH FUKUSHIMA, MUH YUCCA MOUNTAIN"
Like everything these days, it's all about appeal to emotion.
>build a solar panel >need to mine rare earth metals >use extremely toxic chemicals to extract the rare earths, the chemical are probably petroleum byproducts >need plastic and metal to construct the panel >plastic is made with oil which is increasingly coming from fracking and other dirty unconventional sources >metals are mined by digging up the earth using oil based machinery >the workers in the solar panel plant need oil based fertilizer so they don't starve to death >the solar panel is shipped across the ocean in an oil powered ship >some upper middle class cuck sets it up and uses it to power his tesla meme car >the planet is saved
>>61190702 If by "on the smaller scale" you mean individual households, then sure. I've got solar panels on my house and from ~April through to ~October by electric bill is literally negative, but it's never going to be viable on a scale larger than a village
Literally what is wrong with every country going nuclear and selling their waste to america/australia/saudi arabia to bury in the middle of some huge empty ass desert. What possible wildlife could be damaged. There arent even any trees. Why is waste disposal even an issue.
>>61189600 It's true, but it requires some significant investments, not only into the building of renewable power plants, but also lot of infrastructure to get power from the north, where we have offshore windparks, to the south, which is causing some contention because people don't want giant electrical masts in their backyards. Besides, we are also building several other power plants running on fossil fuels to fill the gaps because we don't have the capacity yet to store enough of the renewable energies for when the wind isn't blowing. Needless to say, electricity is getting more expensive, and I've also heard that large power companies are suing the state.
>>61190842 That's essentially what I meant. If pricing for solar cells dropped to nothing and was used in smaller towns. Also now that I think of it tidal generation would probably be less of a pain compared to wind as long as it was deployed in the right spots, but I'm not going to pretend I know remotely enough about that.
>>61190545 >>61190792 Yes we are and no we are not. It depends on the output of our facilities. At some points we have a bigger output that covers our energy demands with leftovers and at some points we don't produce enough because our genius politicians had to appease the hippies, in that case we buy energy from our neighbours. The shit part here is that the energy we sell sells for WAY less than what we buy. This problem will be solved once better storage methods are developed, until then, we're the laughing stock on the energy market as well. Being German today is suffering.
Used to work at the American embassy in Berlin. Had lunch with the guys from the economic section every day. This is pretty much what is going on.
>Germans are very anti-nuclear power as a default >German government subsidizes the shit out of alternative energy sources but mostly solar. >Builds solar fields everywhere >Solar energy is ineffiecient and costs a ton to produce. >German utility bills go through the roof >Germans start going back to coal because its plentiful and cheap. >mfw there's more pollution now than ever
All because the rabid peace activists can't stand to see the word "nuclear" anywhere.
> Nuclear energy is bad and dangerous and we have to stop using it right now. MUH CHERNOBYL MUH FUKUSHIMA SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT > Hey, I absolutely agree. There's this cool sorta new thing called LFTR that can use nuclear energy in an extremely safe and effective way with minimal waste. I think we should look into that. > SHUT UP FUCKING NUCLEAR ENERGY SHILL. MUH CHERNOBYL MUH FUKUSHIMA SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT Why is this bullshit hippy mentality the norm nowadays? When you mention you think more money and research should be put into nuclear energy, people lose their fucking minds.
>>61190944 Same over here. We are also faced with the problem of our nets getting more and more unstable due to the unreliability of those shit energy sources - they might only contribute a small amount, but even that small amount is enough to lead to voltage fluctuations.
Also, large companies which use up significant shares of Germany's overall consumption where exempt from paying the extra fee that was introduced for renewable energies (IIRC, it has been abolished by now). To keep them "competitive on the international market", even though a bunch of them didn't even export anything. Which means the average Hans essentially had to pay that fee not just once but something like thrice to make up for those companies.
>>61191231 1. It WILL run out. 2, There is more pollution per kW than you'd have with regeneratives. You need to look at the entire process from mining to building infrastructure to end storage. But yeah, the safety arguments are retarded.
>>61191231 Does nuclear power even hurt the environment at all? I mean all they do is get radioactive material, heat them up and after they burn them, they put them in some place, the materials don't become more radioactive in the process, do they? How is it bad for the environment? Look at fucking chernobyl, I think the accident actually helped the environment there by getting the people out.
>>61189600 alternative energy needs a shitload of financial support from the government. we just use energy from coal energy plants. plus we import energy from other countries that use less safe nuclear power plants than we have.
>>61189951 The United States is huge. There's a lot of open space where you can put nuclear power plants far away from the people. However, population density in West. Europe is very high. If one of the 50 year old nuclear reactors in Belgium (which is doing very bad currenly) will melt down more then 10 million people will have to be evacuated.
God damn I am fucking triggered. I am finishing up my degree in Mechanical Engineering and have taken a lot of elective courses in alternative energy.
Solar Energy is not viable. It could be in the future, but it just isn't good enough for us right now. Wind turbines are decent for areas in the Mid West where they can install a shit ton of them (however, you still run into problems with mining the rare earth metals to make the turbines which creates a lot of environmental problems).
Bottom line: we should invest money in continuing our efforts in RESEARCHING alternative energy. We can't just adopt energy resources that aren't good enough yet because they make us feel good about ourselves.
>>61191016 >ow that I think of it tidal generation would probably be less of a pain compared to wind as long as it was deployed in the right spots, but I'm not going to pretend I know remotely enough about that. We're doing it, in an estuary with the 2nd highest tidal range in the world.
>>61189600 Enough solar energy hits the planet in 24 hours, to power our electricity needs for nearly as many years.
You could, mathematically, turn Ireland into a solar panel, and it would power the planet for a day.
However, it would require higher efficiency than we have. At 20% efficiency though, we would still only need to turn Spain into a solar panel, to power the planet.
Seriously, if we got onto solar properly, there would be no need for any other form of renewable.
The problem, as fucking ALWAYS, is the profit. Solar is simple. Not a lot of moving parts, compared to others, so less to be extracted from maintenance. It's also not funded like other, more pointless pursuits. Wind is literally useless. Solar is the way forward.
>>61191231 >Why is this bullshit hippy mentality the norm nowadays?
Because it has been hammered into everyone's brain for decades and people have absolutely zero clue how power plants work.
They also follow this bullshit >yeah, it might be extremely unlikely that something happens, but IF it does than shit is really bad! mentality. So they would rather have their environment definitely destroyed by coal plants.
>>61191710 >I couldn't give less of a fuck if some random species of salmon goes extinct as long as our power needs are met without giving money to the house of Saud What you actually mean is >I don't care how we fuck up the planet as long as my ability to shitpost isn't interrupted in the next 80 years
>>61191438 Thorium is way more abundant than uranium (5-6 times if I remember that right). That will easily last for a couple 100 years. As for your second point: I have no concrete data, but I'd disagree. The environmental footprint of most solar cells in particular is fucking horrible: http://www.anl.gov/articles/solar-panel-manufacturing-greener-europe-china-study-says
>>61191717 I suppose it's US specific, I can't say I've heard a german environmentalist mention it in a prominent fashion. It's all about muh Tschernobyl and muh Fukushima. Only once you ask them how many retarded slavs are operating our nuclear reactors or how many were built near major fault lines they remember that there was another nuclear incident, conveniently forgetting that nothing actually happened in that one.
Nuclear energy IS alternative energy, the Germans shut down nuclear plants because of Fukushima, and are going back to fossil gas energy. So technically it is correct, but the reasoning has nothing to do with solar panels.
The problem with nuclear are the costs. A reactor takes about 10 years to build and complete. Billions of dollars or euro's go into it. And it's not a good investment, because chances are somewhere in the world a nuclear reactor will go boom boom and the uranium stocks will drop and there'll be mass demonstrations against nuclear energy.
Not to mention how much it will cost to evacuate 10 million people in case of a melt down in Europe.
Coal gasification and biofuels are the future until nuclear fusion. Fission is a dead end.
>discuss plastic waste in the oceans, air pollution in the cities, destroyed habitats through dams and all that >Anglo goes >KEKKITY KEK >fucking hippie cunts >it's not a big deal >implying earth cares >discuss nuclear vs. fossil (or German car industry) >Anglo does a 180 and turns into a nature nazi within a millisecond
>>61192105 Was there a forest, or a lake there? Most likely not. Even if there was a magical fairy forest lake jungle amazon tropical river ocean sea dolphin whales lion elephant rhino habitat, deforesting that much of an area is nothing, it's way less than a square kilometer.
>>61189600 Probably the coal plants they need to build and then run at sub-optimal levels to counter-balance all their alternative energy. Lowest energy costs in Europe are in France, which focuses on Nuclear energy
>>61191438 Thorium is well suited to a "breeder" type reactor. Basically it creates more fuel as it "burns", and leaves behind a fraction of the waste uranium does, as well as having more energy recoverable than uranium.
>>61191762 Aside from inefficient panels and depending on weather and day/night cycle and not very "green" production and recycling and storage problems, etc, etc. I.e. solar collectors is useless unless we do send them in space and then somehow transfer electricity on planet. Ideally we should build big solar collectors above and under Sun - partial Dyson sphere.
You will eventually agree that fission reactors are stupid. If the tech was as great as you claim it is, we wouldn't have an energy crisis. The decision to move away from fission sooner rather than later is the right one.
Germany is, after all, the greatest country in the world.
>>61191300 there really needs to be bigger campaigning for nuclear, i think the "and literatley nothing bad happened" is the best selling point, but for some reason everyone believes they will turn green and melt
>>61189600 Solar panels are shit that chip and get all faded easily plus disposing of them is like disposing of nuclear waste. Plus they are only good during the day, when there aren't any clouds or fog or any asshole with an umbrella within a 20 mile radius.
Wind turbines use more fossil fuels to manufacture than what they'll save over their lifetime Also only good when there is wind, and not too much wind.
BIOgas,,, is EASy! to produce.... Some DUNG,,,Tank,,,Food rests,,,, time DONE gas... ready to ignITe!!,, for food.. water,, shower... all your NESSECITIES,,, And 100% environmental.... CLEAN...,, energy.
Now,,, LET ME get started,, On !! Coal gasification ,,, Reduces 30%.... OF ALL pollutants... Gasses are Easier too clean...
YOU just need GOVERNMENT,,, to say DO!! HERE in the Nehterlands,,, We have 2 gassification PLANTS... They burn 100% clean white smoke... Far away at the ocean... ANd the GOOD thing,,, If you don't. wanto USe coal,, YOU can burn BIOMASS in them!!!! Multiple uses!! And we have Coal To last,,, ,100's of years!! Cheap, Energy!! Until FUSION
No nuclear fission!! Very bad... Expensive,,,unsafe,,, bad market.... !
>>61192790 I want a movie where the entire plot is based around a bagger 288 being teleported back in time to Constantinople 1453.
>>61192818 >This actually mines ore/rock/salt/quartz/etc. I guess it can do what ever but >The Bagger 288 was built for the job of removing overburden before coal mining at the Hambach stripmine in Germany. It can excavate 240,000 tons of coal or 240,000 cubic metres of overburden daily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagger_288
>>61193202 You produce more advanced technology, but don't use more advanced technology, how is that hard to understand? I'm pretty sure my internet is faster and cheaper than yours, does that make me more advanced? Do you think we're some jungle horse-riders or something like that?
>>61192979 As I read, you have to change panels pretty often (like once in 10-15 years or something), and price for buying/installing/utilizing them easily offsets any gains you got while using them. Not to mention price in installing them (and buying panels not made by kikes) in the first place.
>>61193262 >bury barrels of nuclear waste. The worst thing about this is that new and more efficient nuclear power plants would be able to use up more of the the old ''depleted'' rods and making them less dangerous for final storage.
>>61189600 Germany has tried to phase out their reliance on nuclear power, which for decades the left in Europe has been opposed to. The problem is that means that most of their electricity is produced by coal plants. This is something that Germany has been criticized for by its neighboring countries, and since they do not come close to the standards of efficiency/carbon emission as in Scandinavia the plants in Germany are considered extremely 'dirty'. The left in Sweden, and I'm willing to bet other Scandinavian countries, have tried to get rid of nuclear power completely by putting punative taxes on its production making it difficult to turn a profit on and causing nuclear plants to shut down. So thanks to the Green Party we are now importing dirty German coal power to make up for the nuclear plants being shut down.
And wind turbines are just magically produced and delivered? The hundreds of trucks on the highways are running on water? And the solar panels power from china? Do you think a few thousand chinese carry them over here? They get shipped in a diesel guzzling cargo ship.
But wait, theres more: How do you produce silicon, the stuff solar panels are made of?
Not only is CO2 a byproduct when producing silicon, but silicon needs to be cleaned after that in order to be used in solar panels.
This is accomplished in a destillery that requireds temperatures of 1200°C.
In short: it's energy intensive as hell to produce a solar panel.
It's certainly not a magic fix but alternative energy is a viable source of long term power. The biggest thing that drains power is transmission. As batter technology improves, localized power sources (e.g., PV, wind) will become even more economical for lower-demand users like small businesses and residential properties.
Of course, for the foreseeable future, big power sinks like cities and factories will likely require more conventional energy sources.
Also, anyone who says that these aren't implemented because the don't work is full of shit. In Nevada, for instance, they're actually raising the monthly fees imposed on solar panel users to maintain their bottom line.
Yucca Mountain was as good of a place as any for long-term storage. I'm sure you guys have some good candidates long-term geological repositories in that huge fucking nothingness in the middle of your country, too. Good luck getting through all the red-tape and getting the environmental wackos to sign off on it, though.
>>61192724 >I don't care what shit people will be doing 200 years from now. you should,for the sake of your kind.150 years ago people didn't care either.look how that worked out for us >>61193038 >Nuclear energy is still improving as a field so is renewable.if it comes to fossil fuels and nuclear,i would choose nuclear.today,it's the best source.but eventually we'll have to use renewable sources.better start now
>>61189600 why is wind energy meme-tier? could it be that it has extremely low efficiency with high production/maintainance costs? but still, on the long term this wouldn't mean much. i see no reason why not to implement it, especially in windy areas.
How about an artificial island in the middle of the Atlantic full of nuclear plants and surrounded by tidal generators with super conductors powering all of Europe, Africa, South America, and East Coast North America?
Since we're talking about wild hypotheticals, of course
>>61189600 1. they import power 2. they had a massive round of investment in gass plants and now have to suck Putins dick for at leat a decade and a half 3. they use huge amounts of coal, and not just clean burning black coal but much more poluting brown coal 4. the "clean energy" is only a very small part of the mix 5 the "clean energy" runs on burning tax money
>>61189600 Nuclear is the most efficient non-pollutant energy we have. Environmentalists keep stonewalling attempts to figure out how to effectively eliminate nuclear waste thusly the waste will keep piling up in the small desert dumps we have. Good job, hippies, slowly killing the Earth. >>61189899 Hit the nail on the head
>>61192979 are you retarded? the only reason solar power is used in germany because of the subsidies. If everyone else wasn't paying for part of your panels you'd need centuries of power consumption to save money. Especially with the weather in germany.
And our power grid isn't designed for this shit. Have you forgotten the protests against the powerlines all over the country? They aren't building power lines because our grid is so fucking advanced.
>>61189830 This if only retards weren't so hung up about the few accidents that happened and actually dedicated resources on research we would be in an energy golden age Think nuclear research stagnated around the 70s until recently if we really threw some weight behind the research everyone would be better off
>>61194864 Because it would require a very large surface and wouldn't work during the night and would heavily depend on the weather as well. It's not stable nor reliable. A nuclear power plant works 24/7
>>61190511 >>61190860 Power engineer here. All hydroelectric and geothermal potential has essentially been tapped, at least in the US. This is because they're reliable and consistent. Wind and solar in their current state are not. Leftist greenies need to fuck off with that agenda and wait until technologies are developed that can effectively wean us off fossil fuels.
>>61194461 >The biggest thing that drains power is transmission. As batter technology >Also, anyone who says that these aren't implemented because the don't work is full of shit. >It's certainly not a magic fix >anyone who says that these aren't implemented because the don't work is full of shit. >The biggest thing that drains power is transmission.
>>61194864 Because only like 1% of sunlight makes it to Earth in a useable form. Solar power is pathetically inefficient compared to nuclear. It also relies on something that could easily be blocked should there be a large volcanic eruption, which is quite possible and long term cloud cover due to volcanism has historical precedent in Europe.
Nuclear or bust. Solar is a meme pushed by Solar corporations.
>>61193556 >It's not an industry I want my country to depend on. why? also take a look at how some elders in the Uk are burning phonebooks to stay warm bc the green policies raised electricity and gas prices.
>>61195709 A nuclear program would mean making our economy dependent on uranium producing countries. I say no fuck you very much to that. You know what kind of countries all that uranium comes from? >Canada >Australia >USA No, no, no, no, no, fuck them, I'd rather sit in the dark, or sell out the entire country to Putin.
>>61189600 That's fucking retarded. "alternative" energy sucks ass because its sporatic and there's no decent form of energy storage that can be created on the large scale. If you switched entirely to solar and wind, it'd be like North Korea with blackouts and problems all the time. >>61189830 Liberal faggots don't like society being able to grow. That's why they want society to always be hampered.
Solar will never the most important energy source in germany.
It's not reliable. At night and during winter you get little to no energy out of them. So we'd essentially need enough batteries to store half a year worth of energy. Not only will this require a massive leap in technology, but we would need to pay AGAIN for constructing said batteries.
Don't get me wrong, If you want to build solar panels on your roof go ahead - but please pay for them yourself.
If you truly believe that solar panels are the future, then surely it would buy them even if they weren't subsidized?
I'd understand if you were hesistant to pay for them yourself if you were having doubts about the efficiency / cost effectiveness.
>>61196283 >small, contained area of contamination >the energy output from a nuclear plant is so much more more than that of coal/gas and the output from that plant that would replace the amount of coal/gas plants would literally save the environment.
>>61189600 Americans are so phased by the "n-word" (nuclear in this case).
Meanwhile, ultra-liberal France gets a yuge percentage of their power from nuke.
Ever heard of MRI? (magnetic image resonance)? It was originally called NMRI (nuclear), but they changed it for marketing because burgers are spooked on nukes.
AND ANOTHER THING, the next time some leftist fuck starts blabbing to you about fuel cells, remind him it's merely a battery, and the energy still has to be put into the cell (coming from fossil-fueled electric plants most often).
>>61191854 >fuck up the planet only way to fuck it up is to move it from its orbit dipshit (or blow it up) is there any proteins and chlorophyll ? yes? then life is OK in the universe were there any salmon 65 million years ago? probably not will there be any salmon 65 million years from now? probably not
guess who is the only thing alive to make a backup for this planet? humans not your fucking salmon or pandas or lions lion is going to do jack shit if meteor arrives
>>61197145 Not quite. Our strength is prescience, not smarts per se. A stupid guy can be prescient. In any case, Germans mostly agree that going nuclear wouldn't be clever, even with the environmental advantages taken into account.
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