>>61167466 You split from Rome. This is the fact. You fucking dumbass. >>61167473 >yet shills for fucking jews on a daily basis Any questions? >>61167499 That is true, but he didn't have to go full autism mode about it.
>>61166396 >Hitler was lutheran by the way >Austria >Lutheran What amazes me the most about the internet is how people can spout completely obvious and utter bullshit and still be fucking convinced they are right, absolutely right, no matter how outlandish their claims are.
"The blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly gasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? ‘Behold, we have left all and have followed you’ [Matt. 19:27; Mark 10:28]" - Clement of Alexandria [A.D. 200]
"Among these [apostles] Peter alone almost everywhere deserved to represent the whole Church. Because of that representation of the Church, which only he bore, he deserved to hear ‘I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven’" - Augustine [A.D. 411]
"‘But, you [Jovinian] will say, ‘it was on Peter that the Church was founded’ [Matt. 16:18]. Well . . . one among the twelve is chosen to be their head in order to remove any occasion for division" - Jerome [A.D. 393]
"[Jesus said:] Simon, my follower, I have made you the foundation of the holy Church. I betimes called you Peter, because you will support all its buildings. You are the inspector of those who will build on Earth a Church for me. If they should wish to build what is false, you, the foundation, will condemn them. You are the head of the fountain from which my teaching flows; you are the chief of my disciples. Through you I will give drink to all peoples. Yours is that life-giving sweetness which I dispense. I have chosen you to be, as it were, the firstborn in my institution so that, as the heir, you may be executor of my treasures. I have given you the keys of my kingdom. Behold, I have given you authority over all my treasures" - Ephraim the Syrian [A.D. 351]
Notice how these quotes come from both the Western AND Eastern Fathers of the Church. I could go on.
The Bible isn't an explicit manual, it requires interpretation. Christ gave Peter the power to bind and lose [Matthew 16:13-20]. Amendments to doctrine occur because the Pope has the authority, given by Christ, to do so.
>>61166962 There was no "orthodox" before the papacy. All apostolic churches are regarded as Catholic churches before the schism nightmare. St. Ignatius of Antioch was arrested by Romans in AD 107 and wrote a letter to the Symmireans saying "Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church"
>>61168177 I spawned to fill the power vacuum left by Black Death and the general degeneracy of the dark ages. In reply to the query posed ITT, Protestantism is installing the holy lands sky fairy directly into your head where as Catholicism is having the holy lands sky fairy interpreted through a despot in Rome, the further away from Rome the occultist congregate the more bizarre the interpretations get. Neither are very attractive options this day and age IMO. Don't know too much about the Orthodox church, on one hand they rejected the militarization of the holy lands sky fairy and the crusades in general, on the other hand Orthodox is often interpreted as fundamentalism, a cancer that has no equals in this world. It's an allegorical tale written more than 1000 years ago.
"Now I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you should be in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you should be united in the same mind and the same purpose." - 1 Corinthians 1:10
How many Protestant sects are there now? 30,000 or so? This is precisely one of the most egregious errors of Protestantism: this presumption that you--the individual, untrained laymen--should be able to just go off and found your own Church based on your own personal interpretation of scripture.
Have you studied theology? Do you dedicate your life to religious scholarship? Are you receiving visions directly from God? The Church is NOT a democracy--it should not be subject to the whims of the people. Christian doctrine is not your plaything.
The point of religious inquiry is, primarily, to refine our understanding of what it is that God wants of us. Whatever the answer to this inquiry is, it will be a matter for theologians, scholars and mystics to decide. This answer will be objective and universal. There will not be multiple interpretations.
Christ said "I am the truth" Christ is God God, being perfect, cannot change Therefore, the truth cannot change
>>61166154 Here's the issue, I don't think that the pope is infallible. Nor is Mary, the mother of Jesus, is divide, in the sense she part of the trinity. The bible is inspired, but not its entirety. It irks me that the Catholic church just nonchalantly added more books into the bible, although my view is compensating due to Maccabees, because archaeologist found the fortress: Arca.
Luther never wanted to split from the Church. All he wanted was for a renewal of piety, just as St. Francis had done some centuries earlier. There is no doubt as to whether Luther would be appalled with what became of the Reformation he began. Even his later writings confirmed his regret.
“I never approved of a schism, nor will I approve of it for all eternity. . . . That the Roman Church is more honored by God than all others is not to be doubted. St, Peter and St. Paul, forty-six Popes, some hundreds of thousands of martyrs, have laid down their lives in its communion, having overcome Hell and the world; so that the eyes of God rest on the Roman church with special favor. Though nowadays everything is in a wretched state, it is no ground for separating from the Church. On the contrary, the worse things are going, the more should we hold close to her, for it is not by separating from the Church that we can make her better. We must not separate from God on account of any work of the devil, nor cease to have fellowship with the children of God who are still abiding in the pale of Rome on account of the multitude of the ungodly. There is no sin, no amount of evil, which should be permitted to dissolve the bond of charity or break the bond of unity of the body. For love can do all things, and nothing is difficult to those who are united.” - Martin Luther to Pope Leo X, January 6, 1519 (more than a year after the Ninety-Five Theses)
“There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads; this one will not admit Baptism; that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar; another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment; some teach that Jesus Christ is not God. There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Spirit, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams.” - Martin Luther
>>61169269 >Nor is Mary, the mother of Jesus, is divide, in the sense she part of the trinity. Are you a muslim? Because Mary is not part of the trinity >It irks me that the Catholic church just nonchalantly added more books into the bible The fuck?
>>61168667 >absolving sins That is just prototypical intelligence gathering. One of the reasons the protestant Reformation was launched when some Monarchs and nobles realized very confessor in the land was a Jesuit. Jesuits of course are the prototypical terrorist cell. they used all those confessions to their advantage concentrating power to what it is today now being replaced by the massive industrial technocratic spying complex.
Doch bei allem Wehklagen aus dem südlichsten Bundesland bleibt eines häufig unerwähnt: Bayern ist in den 62 Jahren seit dem Start des Finanzausgleichs beileibe nicht immer Geberland gewesen, sondern kassierte bis Ende der 80er Jahre selbst ordentlich aus dem Umverteilungstopf. Daran erinnerte auch Mecklenburg-Vorpommerns Ministerpräsident Erwin Sellering (SPD) im „Hamburger Abendblatt“ nur zu gern: Fast 40 Jahre lang habe Bayern vom Länderfinanzausgleich profitiert. „Ich finde es unmöglich, wenn nun ausgerechnet dieses Land die Solidarität in Deutschland infrage stellt und die bis 2019 fest vereinbarten Regelungen aufkündigen will“, sagte der Schweriner Regierungschef.
I'm High Church Anglican. It's very traditional in that we don't accept women priests, homos, have traditional church services etc.
It's similar to Roman Catholicism, but we don't accept the authority of the Pope, we're considered Protestant. I simply don't understand how any Christian can accept the authority of the Pope. The Vatican goes against everything Christianity stands for.
There is also a very strong Orthodox element.
>High Church Anglicanism tends to be closer than Low Church to Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox Christian teachings. In contrast, the Evangelical wing of Anglicanism is closer to Protestant thinking. Although the conservatives tend to look favourably on Roman Catholicism and the Orthodox churches, some in the High Church tradition are sympathetic to practices that, according to both official Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christian teachings, are anathema, such as the ordination of women.
>Catholicism vs Protestantism Individual choice. One is not 'better' than the other. We are all different and have different spiritual needs. Christianity is not like Islam. We've had the Reformation.
My daughter is a Methodist, because she is uncomfortable with the formality of my church, and her church provides more activities for kids and teenagers - I sometimes go to Methodist services with her and I'm good friends with her minister. Christians should strive to be of one family. We all believe in our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, we all read the Holy Bible, we all pray and observe Christmas, Easter and other religious festivals.
>>61169390 >more than a year after the Ninety-Five Theses) and 2 years before the peasant war and the radicalization of protestantism. Your quote is meaningless. Luther would go on to marry later. By 1525 he did not care for the church at all anymore.
>I could throw that argument right back at you. It doesn't prove Catholocism true when Orthodoxy still exists
There is a discussion which can be had as to which form of Christianity (Catholic or Eastern Orthodox) is the true inheritor. Protestantism, however, is illegitimate by assumption since it rejects the Apostolic Succession that both Catholics and Orthodox claim.
If you'd like to see the Catholic argument against Eastern Orthodox, see: >>61168016
The first century Christians, including Christ and the Apostles, considered those books canonical. They quoted from the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures that contained these seven books. More importantly, the deuterocanonicals are clearly alluded to in the New Testament.
The canon of the entire Bible was essentially settled around the turn of the fourth century. Up until this time, there was disagreement over the canon, and some ten different canonical lists existed, none of which corresponded exactly to what the Bible now contains. Around this time there were no less than five instances when the canon was formally identified: the Synod of Rome (382), the Council of Hippo (393), the Council of Carthage (397), a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse (405), and the Second Council of Carthage (419). In every instance, the canon was identical to what Catholic Bibles contain today. In other words, from the end of the fourth century on, in practice Christians accepted the Catholic Church's decision in this matter.
By the time of the Reformation, Christians had been using the same 73 books in their Bibles (46 in the Old Testament, 27 in the New Testament)--and thus considering them inspired--for more than 1100 years. This practice changed with Martin Luther, who dropped the deuterocanonical books on nothing more than his own say-so. Protestantism as a whole has followed his lead in this regard.
One of the two "pillars" of the Protestant Reformation (sola scriptura or "the Bible alone") in part states that nothing can be added to or taken away from God's Word. History shows therefore that Protestants are guilty of violating their own doctrine.
>>61170054 No, no, no. Dear child. Jews hate Christians (and gentiles in general), so you, arguing with Christians are trying to dismantle the worldview altogether. See? It's YOU who's supporting the Jews.
>>61168177 >>61168448 Luther's protestantism isn't anti-authoritarian in nature. The issue for Luther (or even more radical reformers like Karlstadt, Zwingli, and Muentzer) is not a rejection of authority in favor of doing your own thing but rather a fundamental disagreement of sources of authority with the protestants embracing (ad fontes, to the source) as the means of determining authoritative teachings while the catholics insisted that the institutional church had the authority to define doctrine. Catholics insisted that the institutional church held authority over apostolic teachings, Protestants held that the church had authority only insofar as it held to apostolic teaching.
A great irony of /pol/ is that many of the catholics here vehemently denounce Vatican II and favor traditionalist splinter groups even to the point of embracing sedevacantism, positions which cannot stand if one embraces the authority of the magesterium to define doctrine.
Both churches are being infiltrated with leftist, communism. Protestants are in a civil war fighting women being bishops, the well is already poisoned with Catholic's Pope advocating wealth redistribution, environmenvironmentalental tyranny and Catholic's as a whole softening views on homosexuality.
And for the record, Angela Merkel is a Polish JEW on her mother's side. By Jewish law...Merkel IS a new.
And the lord told Noah to name every creature. Noah gave every peoples an animal name based on phonetics. And by these animals they shall know the land of their people. And will begin to tread like beasts. After they learned to sail by necessity not desire and necessity would one day take to land again. And in these lands their stories will be through the civilizations. but be warned of the system of the beast and the corruption of Babylon.
>>61170358 I stand with Vatican II. I do not care for this new Pope but he'll be dead in a couple years. Shit maybe we'll get that guy from Nigeria soon. I hate the people who split from Rome and pretend to be "traditionalists" and act like splintering kikes. >>61170331 A protestant is only a small kike, who supports the Jews (not even the ethnic ones but the ones born from the whores of Babylon and her great orgies). You sit here and support them, and support the idea of Usury.
>>61170123 That's very simplistic, but whatever. It had more to do with England not wishing to be governed from Rome. The divorce thing was more of a pretext.
You could make a comparison with UK not wishing to be told what to do by the EU especially Germany. And when Brexit comes everyone saying "you only left the EU because of [x] reason". When in fact we want to leave the EU for a myriad of reasons. (And we will leave)
It was a similar situation back then. Not as simple as England only separated from Rome because the King wanted a son.
>>61168016 Where in the Bible does it say that the Pope has authority to make amendments to the bible?
Do you believe in the bible as the supreme and ultimate foundation of the faith? If so, I'd like to see biblical support for the following
>Sacraments (and their necessity in sanctification) >the rosary >the "prayers" of the Pope, though it is him just reading monotonously >the authority of the Pope >the canonization of saints >the role of saints as a "mediator" (why play a game of telephone through the saints? Are we not connected directly to God through the Holy Spirit? Was that not the purpose of Christ's crucifixion?) >why Mary is so revered when she is just another human like us >proof that Mary ascended into heaven, which is a popular claim made by Catholics.
there are more, but these are the ones on the top of my mind. I just wanna know, man. I don't associate myself with a particular church; I am a member of one, but the ultimate authority of my faith is the bible.
>>61171362 No it's because they both reject God's authority and fancy themselves up as gods of their own making, with their "sacred traditions" and their power structures and religious laws. The same abomination. The same sin. The same scumbags.
i'm pretty sure the same Papist moron keeps posting this, and honestly believes this is emblematic of all Protestants - which couldn't be further from the truth.
of Protestants and Catholics, only ONE of these is monolithic, and sings from the same sheet of music as each other. fun fact: only ONE of those has the fun little habit of having an actual policy of HIDING kiddie-diddling "priests" in some other far-off diocese after they're outed.
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