I heard this board actually supports "pro-life" lol, is that for real?
Pro life christfags BTFO
>allowing women to put off motherhood to freely use their vagina to whore themselves for social resources
>killing babies who would become people otherwise
>chopped up remains are being sold incentivizing the murder of children
I'll never understand why some people on /pol/ are opposed to Planned Parenthood.
For fuck's sake, do you know how many niggers get abortions there? It's a public service to your entire country.
abortion is murder. period.
the fact that we're conditioned to believe it's ethical or anything other than murder proves the existence of evil
>implying motherhood stops a woman from whoring herself
she can't whore herself if there aren't any dimwitted morons with cocks to stick them with, maybe you should actually do something about the fat white losers who go to your country to fuck your women
Why not delay abortion then to right before the baby is born? If these stem cells are so important we should maximize their gathering right? Why not create a system where we encourage women to get pregnant with the idea that they will abort just before so we can have lots of these incredibly important cells and tissue.
Who cares that a baby can feel pain within 20 weeks, they aren't actually human. As some of the video taped planned parenthood representatives said they also prioritize saving tissue over making the abortion clean or reduce suffering.
We have Profi- I mean research to do people! Liberals aren't heartless monsters at all.
I disagree with abortion morally but I like it being legal because it keeps the nigger population from growing
hypergamy is demotivating men from being providers and achievers. not to mention destroying the chance of having productive children since families are not stable. whores are literally breaking down society
maybe women will start making smart reproductive decisions when it has lifetime consequences.
women are gatekeepers to sex. not men. except in germany and finland. where refugees are the gatekeepers apparently.
Funny enough that is the reason that planned parenthood was founded. The woman who made it was an avowed eugeninist who wanted to wipe out blacks. I'm not bullshitting look it up.
>Wanting women to raise children they don't want, increasing the likelihood said child becomes a criminal
>Implying abortion isn't by far the biggest killer in the black community
>Being this against the free market
>I, knowingly through my own actions set off a chain of events that would lead to another human being growing inside of me
>I have no moral responsibility to steward the human being I knowingly created to a point where it can fend for itself
Absolutely this. I'd much rather pay for ShaQuandas $400 abortion now than she'll out welfare payments for the next 18+years, plus one less dindu in the world.
There's also the added bonus that if a woman gets too many abortions, they can become incapable of carrying a fetus to term or they could even become sterile.
>hypergamy is demotivating men from being providers and achievers
You're putting the cart before the horse. Maybe make yourself an attractive proposition as a mate first (e.g. by working hard and becoming wealthy) and then try to attract a mate. It you can't motivate yourself to do that much, then why would anybody want to be with you?
>maybe women will start making smart reproductive decisions when it has lifetime consequences.
If men could get pregnant then abortion would be available on-demand at little cost 24/7, no questions asked.
I think you're just ass-blasted that other people have more fun than you.
>killing babies who would become people otherwise.
You mean dindus and proud independant womyn.
>a parent can still give consent on its behalf
I absolutely agree, however these choices should make sure foetus is not in any danger/risk. It is to be protected by parents, not killed.
>women catch pregnancy like cancer. it's not a conscious decision. contraceptives don't exist.
>abortion for blacks is fine
>gender-biased subsidized service by taxpayers
I can see why you would say that. but it's because people in the US actually have kids. Plus europe values authority over free-speech so a debate isn't exactly the way they go about it.
IMO as an american europeans have shit forced on them. We do to here but not like you guys. Gay marriage was a one-off.
And when you sat surviving independant that means you're advocating the murder of babies up to toddler level.
>If men could get pregnant then abortion would be available on-demand at little cost 24/7
Except in the case of abortion you quite literally created the tenant. In a very real sense you are responsible for things you create. You have the responsibility to protect your children and failure to do so is neglect. You can't kick your children out of the house and say "just because they can't survive it's not my responsibility".
you sure glossed over the fact the lack of stable families is shitting over productivity and the well-being of the next generation. also women and men have a mutualistic relationship making them compete with each other just leads to distrust and society breaking down.
if men could get pregnant I'm pretty sure they wouldn't fuck Jamal without protection
look to reddit if you want an echochamber for degeneracy
Are Euros even allowed to debate it with the way the left governments control the media? They censor the media when it comes to refugees in order to stem any potential support for conservative groups so it's not crazy to think they do that with other issues.
I'm single and I'm more productive than someone who needs to keep running home to stop their kid from accidentally killing themselves from ingesting bleach or sticking a knife in the toaster. My employer knows I'm more reliable than someone who might turn up an hour late because their spawn decided to throw a tantrum that morning.
Okay lets see,
>safe and legal abortion
is it safe for the baby?
are the babies' lives not at risk here?
if not, then is is lethal to one side of the scene
but that is right, they believe unborn fetuses have no lives, do they?
Because planting a seed, and letting it grow in the soil and digging up the plant that has potential to be something, isn't really a plant.
>legally procuring fetal tissue for cancer, parkinsons, and alzheimer's
yes because we need to stop death of a previous generation, by sacrificing the newer ones
you selfish bastards care more for your own lives then the potential of a future one. It shouldn't be that tough to either
A. use a condom
B. DON'T HAVE SEX
C. don't put yourself into a situation where you might have sex, with your permission or not
D. be more responsible and don't abuse your lady privilege to justify all the bad you do, or are about to
So, does the discussion in the US allow for more options than "Nothing past conception may be done JESUS WANTS MORE CHILDREN" and "my body, my rules, no matter at what point, even late term, MY BODY MY RULES RAAAAAPE"
>>Contraceptives never fail
Abstinence never fails too, you putrid slut.
>Implying spics and white trash getting abortions isn't also a good thing
>gender biased cause men can't get pregnant
the point was this isn't free market at all.
which is why women should exclusively be homemakers. you displaced a man who would done a much better job and provided for a family instead of treating a career as a way to marry up.
The anti-choicers don't realise that the Catholic church changed its mind a while ago, and decided that unbaptised infants go to heaven. This means that, since they believe foetuses are babies, that aborting them would send them to heaven faster!
I think most people support the legality of abortion as an option. What most people are opposed to is the disgusting use of abortion as a first option instead of a last resort.
Of course there are cases where abortion is necessary for the health of the mother, or is the best available option for the parents, but these are the extreme minority of cases. The majority of abortions are just parents (most often single parents) who decide they don't want to deal with a kid.
With all the other options available these days, it's disgusting that so many people resort to abortion as their first choice.
>I heard this board actually supports "pro-life" lol, is that for real?
/pol/ is philosophically pro-life but only for high IQ, non-coal burning white women. Practically, /pol/ is pro-choice because it allows blacks and other non-desirables to self-genocide.
>we can't let niggers abort their babies who aren't even human yet
>but we're for the death penalty
>and eagerly wish for the race war where we will be able to shoot niggers to our hearts' content
/pol/ has a lot of hypocritical positions, but this is one of the more egregious. I should really stop being surprised so many clowns here fall for the MUH MORAL MAJORITY meme, but I still hold out hope most of them are just posting ironically. We've got so many Anons who are too young to remember a time when objection to abortion and day-after pills was a fringe view, held by just one sect of Christianity. To hear people talk now, you'd think this was something all good Christians were preaching against for at least a hundred years, but it's not the case.
They've now taken strawmanning to a whole new peak. Not only is the man a comical and unrealistic representation of pro-lifers, but they're shoving words into the strawman's mouth.
How much of a fucking moral high-ground do they think they hold?
Yes, because they would die without a nervous system. The only reason a fetus can survive in that state is because it is small enough that bathing it in glucose and other nutrients can keep it alive and growing.
>the Catholic church changed its mind
the catholic church is now a progressive movement.
I don't care if it's murder or not. If it is, then I am glad someone is murdering all these unwanted shitskin babies. If I could, I would build an abortion clinic on the street corner of every ghetto and pay niggers to use them.
but the foetus has a potential to become a baby
just like a sprout has the chance to become a sapling
if people keep aborting babies, we will have no future to grow off of, because the future is being cut short of existing.
>taken strawmanning to a whole new peak
How does a political cartoon compare to editing video to imply someone is murdering kids for profit and telling everyone they're literally sticking breathing babies in blenders?
Oh, you just don't know how many of us hate Pope Francis. You may not see it on the surface, but we despise this this heretic for throwing away hundreds of years of church doctrine just to be more "progressive".
>if people keep aborting babies, we will have no future to grow off of, because the future is being cut short of existing.
Only if all, or nearly all, people keep aborting all or nearly all their potential children.
Which isn't the case. Not even close. Out of the many potential dangers to our future, "not enough children" isn't one. I'd argue "too many black children" is a far more pressing concern.
You are Murdering babies. Pure and simple.
And you will be killed and burn in hell for it.
barring catastrophic circumstance that baby will become a human being and is intended to be. after fertilization you are literally denying someone human life. I'd have more respect for pro-abortionists if they come out and say its murder for convenience so they can keep whoring around instead of bullshit like women's rights.
You really don't understand anything at all if you think anyone on here, or most people in general can actually achieve this. If being wealthy is a requirement for the average man to reproduce in the 21st century, we can expect our population to nosedive.
Anon, the future that most aborted babies will create is not one you can grow off of to begin with.
You're saying, "Oh, if we keep uprooting these saplings, we won't have enough trees in 30 years," while ignoring the fact that the vast majority of plants we're plucking are WEEDS, not trees.
Maybe you haven't noticed, but the world isn't exactly hurting for population on the whole, either. And locally, the looming demographic crisis (mostly Social Security's solvency) is not going to be solved by ending abortion.
Once again, you fail to understand the difference, a complete absence of the nervous system vs nerve damage. A complete absence means you don't have a brain, and your organs don't do anything, can't breath on your own, no heart movement, no muscle movement.
And whatever shitty justification you use for killing a fetus can easily be extended to a newborn infant without any contradiction. There is no sudden development of self awareness when they pop out of a vagina.
>says Germany and Britain with their plummeting fertility rates, prompting their governments to import shitskins to fill in the populationgap
>prompting their governments to import shitskins to fill in the populationgap
Yeah, no. Our governments are importing shitskins to fuck us over and please their masters. There's no need whatsoever for it.
Abortion just allows women to act like whores, taking no responsibility for their own choices. Then they, the so called fairer sex, steal a human beings chance at life, their own child, without a shred of remorse.
>kill em before they can stand
you're pathetic, life is sacred you piece of human garbage.
It's simple maths m8.
>labour pool of 120
>double the size of labour pool
>don't double the jobs
Add to that "we need more women in X because reasons so we're going to incentivise hiring them, institute quotas and punish those that don't".
And you get more qualified men being displaced from jobs by people who's main qualification is a set of ovaries.
I don't want that either.
Fuck the ageing population crisis. Stop funding social security and end-of-life care and let them get on with it. The older generation made their beds and now they can lie in them.
Regardless of obscene wealth, people in industrialized countries trend towards breeding below their replacement values. In fact, having more wealth engenders a desire to spend it all care-free and not worry about looking after some little brat who'll suck it all up and make you look bad. You pop out one princess or two, if that, and quit.
Since most of the world is industrializing, this is going to be the case everywhere. Birthrates will fall worldwide, and we're already hovering near replacement with the global average as it is. The idea that we're going to massively overpopulate the planet and eat ourselves out of life has been dead for a while.
Most models predict we stabilize at 14-16 billion, which is sustainable given our current level of food production and land use, to say nothing of future advances (massive hydro- or aeroponic grow farms).
The only issue there is whether we want to spend the money necessary to support that population logistically and in a way that doesn't trash the environment (we don't), but we care so little about that on the whole that we are fucked right now whether we have 5 billion or 15.
No it wouldn't actually, for all sorts of reasons. Firstly, our social programs require stable population growth in order to function properly, Secondly, our governments are aware of the aforementioned and are willing to import endless numbers of immigrants from shitholes in order to make up for a lack of native population growth.
There's probably other stuff I'm forgetting atm, but those two are stupidly important if we value the continued existence of our nations.
>It's always safer to abort than give birth. Always.
How about not get pregnant in the first place? You aren't a helpless coddled breeding machine that helplessly spreads her legs to any virile male. Oh wait.
>You keep talking about women "whoring around". You'd do the same if only you could.
No I'd probably be saying you slutwalk sluts are ruining society.
>it's too many children
>coming from only white people
>niggers take over the entire world and it turns into Africa
>all because men let dumb whores like this vote and "work" jobs men would do better
Nobody cares whore, people might pretend to care when you're sucking their dick.
But you're just an edgelord whose only value is her pussy.
>Most models predict we stabilize at 14-16 billion, which is sustainable given our current level of food production and land use
Define sustainable, please. Would we all have to eat gruel and live ten to a room? Britain is overcrowded as it is, imagine if we had to house another 60 million people here.
We should end those social programs, not import migrants to work to make up the shortfall.
The difference is when there is no longer a chance for life to occur later. A fetus has all that future ahead of it. A vegetable may reach a point where there is no longer a chance at being a person. While that chance remains I'm against taking a person off life support.
Killing a fetus is killing a person just the same as it would be killing a person if I pushed a boulder down a hill and it crushed a person at the bottom. The initial act of pushing the boulder or killing the fetus may not be equivalent to killing a person at first, but eventually the consequence is the same. You've destroyed a life. We charge you for a single murder when you do this because we know you've killed one life, but in reality you've destroyed uncountable potential lives in the form of potential offspring and the changes a single man could have made to everyone else. Since we can't be sure, for that greater crime all murderers go uncharged.
>Involuntary muscle twitches, mostly caused by the finger pressing into the actual body
You are in for a literal nightmare
Part of me wants to ban it, because it promotes degeneracy and the flaunting of consequences, while the other part of me supports it for being the #1 reason why degenerates don't have children.
>steal a human beings chance at life, their own child
I would allow abortion simply because of eugenics reasons, these people will not have good kids.
But honestly you're lowest of human trash if you ever actually do it yourself, on par with child rapists.
>ma'am, we're forcing you to have this baby
>but we don't give two shits about prenatal care
>or postnatal care
>or how you're going to pay for this or support the kid
>or how it's going to grow up
>in fact, we would prefer to forget that this child even exists until it is old enough to join the workforce
>so just squat down and squirt that b- oh shit another lower class hoodlum has keyed my car and raped my daughter brb
Here you go OP, i made it a bit more accurate.
>The difference is when there is no longer a chance for life to occur later.
There we go: A CHANCE.
As in, not yet realized. May happen in the future. But, at that point, not a person.
>Killing a fetus is killing a person just the same as it would be killing a person if I pushed a boulder down a hill and it crushed a person at the bottom.
No. Because, at the time, the person under the boulder is already a person. Delaying the kill doesn't change that it's already a person while you act.
You are trapped in a nightmare of your own design.
An easier solution is to leave abortion as it is. The black population in America would explode if abortion was banned. I'm not saying Schlomoberg hasn't had anything to do with dividing people up like this but allowing abortion is a good way to maintain the status quo for now.
If abortion was never legalized in America, the dindu population would be DOUBLE what it currently is.
Think about this for a minute anon:
-Twice as many niggers in prison and on welfare (costing taxpayers more money=smaller paycheck for you)
-Twice as many niggers raping, shooting, and stealing. (You think Chicago and Detroit are bad now?)
-Twice as many nigglets lowering our education standards
-Twice as many niggers voting Democrat
Abortion is a literal godsend, and anybody who wants to get rid of it is actively hastening the fall of the white race.
It's almost like sex education, contraception or just not being a whore in the first place exist.
People that make poor life decisions don't get to murder others to cover their own ass.
years from now
By then some 40% of the population of post-industrial states will be either unemployed or under-employed. If you think letting them loose to sink or swim won't result in chaos and destruction you are dumber then the anti-abortion types.
I'm so glad Trump nuked these irrelevant social issues and is focusing on issues that actually matter. The only reason for the existence of these bullshit social issues is to perpetuate the illusion that there is a left-right divide among the establishment.
>Would we all have to eat gruel and live ten to a room? Britain is overcrowded as it is
No. We already have all the food necessary to "end world hunger", we just can't get it around to all the people who need it. Massive waste by the wealthy (read: not dirt poor) and corruption by undeveloped nations means we just can't move the food around.
America alone throws out enough pricy junk food every day to feed every starving child and bum in North America, to say nothing of cheaper and more nutritious staples. Production is definitely not the problem.
As for room, we're just shit at managing it. Cities are efficient, sprawling suburban landscapes are not, and rural communities are a waste of space. How much space do you think a city takes up compared to fallow fields and unused land within 50 miles? It's peanuts. We don't have to put more people in England, just everywhere else there's an abundance of space and not many people.
Newly-planned cities of the future or expansions to existing ones will make the efficiency we currently have look like total dogshit, too. Most inefficiency in cities comes from their having been planned and built in times when no one gave a shit or hilariously aged infrastructure, problems that go away when we recognize these are in fact problems and address them in new construction.
>the jews literally brought them to your country
jesus, so let me get this straight.. instead of removing the problem you would rather attack the victim instead of fixing the problem? This is why you are doomed to repeat your mistakes because you didn't learn anything.
>By then some 40% of the population of post-industrial states will be either unemployed or under-employed
>muh humans need not apply
If all manual work is done by machines. We can start giving people free money then, because we will have it.
Right now there's plenty of jobs if you actually look.
Are the babby bits really neccessary for research? I thought they could get all the stem cells they needed from like the initial cluster of fertilized cells before it gets all babby-lookin.
you can't just want abortions because of the race of a child, if the child is raised properly could be an acceptable part of society.
the issue is when the child isn't raised properly.
Of course abortion removes the need to raise a child,
but why should we take away a potential future, when the future, although might be bad, can be changed?
also, perhaps this isn't an issue of abortion after all, but an issue on how parents are failing their children, killing them or raising them wrong?
the parents of a child who is a failure, who can't raise properly, shouldn't have an abortion, but rather a complete hault to their reproductive rights. otherwise, people will just keep having children,or sex to continue aborting which they still do right now.
if we put the same amount of effort on the case to find a child a perfect home to grow up into a proper adult, rather then abortions, we would have more civil people then dead fotuses and disasterous families.
>It's for woman's rights....
It's 2016 anon, time to start seeing things for what they truly are.
>abundance of space and not many people
How about we just curb African population growth?
That's entirely preferable than just letting their population grow in crazy rates because "freedom lol" and then destroying the environment just so we can have more welfare niggers in commieblocks.
>How about we just curb African population growth?
But it is curbing. As countries industrialize, their birthrates drop. If you want Africa to stop making babies, all you have to do is lower their mortality rate and up their productivity and income. Success = fewer babies.
America and Africa could quintuple their population and still not be as crowded as the whole of the UK. That's 5-6 billion right there, which almost gets us to the theorized maximum global population.
I'm surprised this isn't the dominant view, minus the parasite statement.
If you really need an abortion, can't take care of a child, you should be able to figure that out within the first couple of months of your pregnancy, while the thing inside you is still practically non-human- like a patch of skin is.
A collection of cells aren't human, but a fetus with a brain and nervous system is.
>attempts to use science to decategorize a fetus from humanity based on sentience
>doesn't apply science to sentience to begin with
>somehow human life is "sacred"
You and all abortion supporters are, key word "dumb" sociopathic nihilists or idiots whose bought into their double think.
>deal with the negro problem by killing their babies in the womb
and you call them niggers?
also plenty of white women get abortions and is a demographic destroyer of the white race
>lives in poverty with no rights
>or murdered by the very criminals they helped create
liberals need to wake up, if we trust our future to these childish minded people we are all screwed
So who gets abortions?
>shitty women who make bad life choices
They'll raise a shit kid.
>poor women who can't afford a kid
They'll raise a shit kid.
>self-absorbed women who care about themselves first, fuck kids
They'll raise a shit kid.
>women with health issues for whom having a child endangers them and/or the child
Risk a currently productive member of society for the chance of someone who might be productive 20 years down the line? No thanks.
And what about the other half of the equation?
>dipshit dads with no foresight who can't even handle something like "pulling out" or putting on a goddamn condom because they're too self-absorbed in their own pleasure to care about future consequences
They'll raise a shit kid.
I'm not saying there's never been or never will be a situation where a completely competent and successful man knowingly impregnates a woman for the purposes of starting a loving and stable family only for her to go batshit a few months later and abort the kid, but that's still a case where one parent has lost their mind and will make a poor guardian, and is assuredly an incredibly slim minority of all abortions.
>people attacking the result and not fixing the problem
if we didn't have a sick culture we wouldn't breed sick people. People now are raised in fear and given no hope into a rotting society to fight for survival in the name of profit.
The people who oppose abortion on religious or moral grounds are not seriously going to chip in the cash to solve the socio-economic ones abortion prevents.
You can spend $1,000 on blenderizing that bundle of cells or $1,000,000 on dem programs. You tell me what's the easier sell.
People are legally obligated to do a lot of things that they don't. Do you think having a court order that says "YOU AGREED TO THIS BABY, SO NOW YOU PAY FOR IT" is seriously going to compel them to do it? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Think you are still focused on money, the same reason we are in this mess. People are conditioned only to think about money which corrupts the moral fabric of society. Major change needs to happen and all the money in the world will not buy it.
its not a financial issue
its not a womans issue
its not a negro issue
its murder issue
find another way to fix these issues. abortion is not a solution its murder and its frightening that people are justifying this by using sophistry to redefine life. this is a dangerous thing
Are you suggesting that everyone just breaks the law on a daily basis because they feel like it?
You're a nigger aren't you?
The money will be taken out of the niggers paycheck or welfare automatically against their will as per the agreement they signed obviously.
only if you can be certain god exists. otherwise you have nothing to lose.
>98% nothing happens, 1% chance god tortures 2/3rds of the world population including you, 1% chance god lets you off for being decent
It's not a murder issue. It's a religious issue. The reason the abortion argument is a hot topic is because of christfags. You see most sane people would simply say, oh well the dead fetus didn't know it was alive so fuck it, and people who believe in heaven would say, well they are innocent so they go to heaven... but christfags have this idea called "original sin". Original sin is an idea they promote to convince people to baptize their kids. The christfags claim that you are born with it and if you haven't been baptized you will go to hell because baptism alleviates you of this original sin. This is pushed by christfags to keep their racket going. It's all a fucking scam.
But since the devoted retards who go to church and donate money every week to the scam actually believe in it, in their minds every aborted baby goes to hell.
Therefore it's really fucking important to them that the baby is able to be born and be baptized in the name of christ before it is murdered so that it's eternal soul goes to heaven and it isn't banished to purgatory or hell or whatever the fuck.
It's all just religious faggot.
And that's the redpill on the abortion debate.
Suck my australian dick.
No, nigger, YOU find another way to fix the issue. You don't get to shit on everything you don't like and brand all solutions as imperfect or unwanted while coming up with fuck-all yourself.
The magical moral miracle >>61170999 wants is never going to happen. So what the fuck are you actually going to do if abortion doesn't work, childcare funding doesn't work, women's health initiatives don't work, mass incarceration doesn't work, expansion of law enforcement doesn't work, crime reduction and youth outreach programs doesn't work, and so on? Which of these do you think is actually the solution? Who the fuck do you think is going to pay for it? If it's not any of them, what else do you think needs to be done, and who is going to pay for that?
Because I'll tell you who isn't going to pay for it, whatever you come up with: the majority of the people who are anti-abortion in the first place. The Moral Majority movement that spawned this whole anti-abortion crusade back was never about morality, it was about expanding a Christian-political powerbase that doesn't give a hot gay fuck about solutions, and your 20-something ass has been unwittingly indoctrinated into the memery by fuckwits that drank deeply of Reagan and Falwell's Kool-Aid.
>newborns are sentient as fuck
great argument. You could google "are newborns sentient" and be cucked by the truth but I know how you liberal fucks are. Kind of has nothing to do with my point anyway.
able to perceive or feel things.
wise, or attempting to appear wise.
of or relating to the human species ( Homo sapiens ).
"our sapient ancestors of 40,000 years ago"
i knew what word i was using. dipshits.
People colloquially use "sentient" to mean "sapient", but they aren't the same.
Sentience means you can respond to external stimulae; you can feel. There is a slight distinction to be drawn between autonomous reaction to stimulae (say, a flytrap plant being triggered, your leg jerking when thwacked with a hammer) and conscious thought -> reaction (fleeing from a known source of pain or irritation). Sentience does not also necessarily include the ability to feel or comprehend pain or suffering.
A cow is sentient to a high degree, but not sapient. It lacks human intelligence and wisdom, as does a fetus. A grown cow is definitely MORE sentient than a fetus, and demonstrably so.
Do you eat burgers, friend?
The west needs a return to religion to survive, but that religion needs to be able to reconcile itself with eugenic practices such as abortion in order for us to get back our glory days.
I don't see either happening DESU.
jesus you stupid motherfucker. i said fetuses had no sentience, he said neither did newborns, and that clearly we should kill those too.
every single one of you fuckheads has a 2nd grade reading comprehension.
>implying I bother to read back up comment chains
I'm gonna give you a pat on the back but only because I'm about to say that if we're cool with fetuses getting a pass due to questionable sentience we shouldn't be eating meat either because cows and chickens are way more sentient, and I don't think the anti-abortion crowd wants to be lumped in with the vegetarian hippie-dips.
>If men could get pregnant then abortion would be available on-demand at little cost 24/7, no questions asked.
If women could get pregnant child support would be available 24/7 no que--
Consent cannot be given for what should be considered an illegal act.
Assuming that the fetus is considered a person, then, logically, all laws that apply to people apply to it. You cannot give consent for someone to kill your children and sell their pieces simply because they are under the age of 18.
I'm actually pro abortion. There are obvious societal benefits to people who know they shouldn't have children not having children. I'm just not going to sugarcoat the reality of what's done in the process. Pro-choice arguments are, generally, full retard.
Take it from someone who is not Christianor otherwise religious, there is not much of a moral argument for abortion for a child merely because it's unwanted.
When a man and a woman have sex, they know there is the chance it will result in bringing a new life into the world.
You can't simply kill off a group of people simply because you don't want them in the world anymore.
But I wouldn't expect a Leftist to relate to anything requiring self-discipline. They always want to take the easy way out. Here's a shortcut for you, kill yourself now.
I sure hope you're not implying we on the right are always or somehow more often conscious of our actions, their consequences, and specifically never have abortions for anything less than dire health-related issues.
Well, yeah, rabbits are absolutely adorable.
Didn't New York had a huge crime-rate fall after banning abortion at some point?
Or was it a huge crime rate hike after legalising abortion - my memory fails me, but it was a pretty solid pro-abortion argument with numbers and stuff.
Plenty of reasons. They don't want to have a child. Think: the type of people who get abortions, want less children. They also would be more likely to become pregnant.
Is this an actual thing that happens? How much can raising a child actually cost? People used to have many more children, and people were a lot poorer back then. Who could possibly go into poverty as long as they aren't already dirt poor?
And yes, killing a child is bad.
okay. if the fetus isn't alive, then why shouldn't mandatory abortions be forced upon people in poverty?
surely if forcing people into poverty is more immoral than abortion, the state has a duty to force abortions upon blacks and muslims.
I'm with you, friendo. Abortion punishes families and deals the child a crap hand at life. Then the rest of us have to deal with another poor kid from a bad part of town with a shitty family life and few prospects growing up with a greater chance at being a shithead.
Legal abortion and the reduction of lead in gasoline / water / paint are often thought to have contributed very heavily to the drop in crime and violence in the US, but as with anything there are studies that say "nuh-uh" and others that say "yeah-huh".
Slightly related, states and areas that ban easy access to contraceptives see a rise in abortions, and those that also ban abortions see a rise in abortions in surrounding regions where it can be acquired (women just travel to get it done) or injury among women (who try to self-abort and fuck up).
> people were poorer
Back in the day the father could be the sole breadwinner and still afford a house, wife and childeren. I'd like to see you try now.
Where I come from, there's a saying: A child costs a house.
Because people still have the right to have children if they want to, even if they know the consequences.
> land of the free
> what is freedom of choice?
I support pro-life because i think humans should take responsibility for the action.
Wanna go fucking he, she, unfortunately he-shes?
You get what you put in or take.
People are saying pro-life is a religious aspect, in some ways yes, but the fact that people are fighting for their own mistakes is disgusting.
We're so close to Idiocracy it's unbearable.
Humanity in at a downfall.
Nah, you gotta draw the line somewhere-- but in early societies, infanticide by mothers was barely considered a crime, especially if they killed them early. If it was prosecuted at all, it was because the father wanted the heir.
i have the rare opinion of thinking abortion is obviously killing, but i don't really have a problem with it, because as far as killing goes it's not that bad.
I do think however that the popularity of abortion may correlate to people being less responsible regarding sex. If you ask me, with all the birth control options available, abortion is almost unnecessary.
okay, so people have the RIGHT to children
and they have the RIGHT for the state to feed those children, otherwise it's immoral for the state to allow suffering to exist? it's not immoral by the fault of the parents?
and they have the RIGHT to drive themselves into poverty? but also the right to be rescued from their bad decisions?
your conception of rights exists only in terms of entitlements and priveleges. nowhere do you incorporate the idea of responsibility or the existence of LIFE into your legal framework. no wonder your continent is shit.
murderers have the RIGHT to state food, shelter, and life. if the state violates this, it is BIGBAD.
but citizens don't have theRIGHT to not be murdered by criminals as ensured by the state. we HOPE the state and protect citizens, but if it doesn't, no big deal.
The woman who made it is was praised by MLK ffs.
Youre full of shit.
i'm not against abortion per se, but this meme is stupid. experience has no quality but quantity. everyone fits in within the puzzle. if you want to look at it in another way, how many great men grew up in a shitty environment? having that desperation to take care of this child despite horrible conditions has the propensity to create the conditions of a unique being. is the purpose of life to grow up in a good normal home? because it seems to me many of those people end up with their own mental problems. everyone is fucked no matter how you grow up. and everyone finds a way. we're life forms. people can grow up in garbage cans.
"I think abortion is immoral, but if they're doing it anyway, we should go ahead and stop blacks and muslims from reproducing."
that's some fascist shit right there
As much as I don't want them to reproduce either, reproducing is what we are all designed to do, and is something we all want to do (eventually).
Yes, I do want sluts to think twice before they take cum inside their vayayay, but letting them have a baby is not a suitable 'punishment'. You're hurting the child for the mistakes of the mother.
>with all the birth control options available
And yet there are numerous places in the US where contraceptive sales are made prohibitively difficult and we refuse to educate people on their purpose and proper use in favor of "abstinence".
Men not wanting to bother with condoms (which are pretty cheap, all things considered) is what pushes women to need more expensive IUDs, birth control pills, or day-after drugs. But in some places, those things are either not covered by insurance, covered poorly, or have such a huge social stigma attached to them that people get scared away from buying them (or your drug store clerk refuses to sell the stuff). And then there's instances where they or condoms simply fail.
It's already been demonstrated that the best way to reduce abortions is to support easy access to birth control, yet the places most violently anti-abortion are also anti-that. Just look at this Planned Parenthood mess. People are up in arms over the abortion thing, which was revealed to be an edited smear job, but they're still pushing for defunding PP despite federal funds already NOT going towards PP's abortion services, which means womens' health and contraceptive services are what gets cut which will just fucking lead to MORE ABORTIONS.
I'm gonna enslave niggers with their owner's consent!!
You must understand that in the mind of the US Left, the only reason people a person can be pro-life is for religious reasons.
Nobody is perfect so occasional failure is expected. This is profoundly different from not trying at all or promoting failures as successes.
you're looking at the issue recursively. you have the socialist mindset, which tries to fix a problem that the socialism creates. People, without a socialist government, found ways to fix these problems. without allowing for this to happen, of course this disorder will come out. this supposed 'degenerate' behavior is a result of socialist government.
while i do agree that in one sense proliferating contraception is a good thing, you're still just fixing the symptom of the problem, which I'm still all for. but if you want to get to the root of it, you have to instill responsibility and other useful cultural behavior via lack of nanny government
this thread reminds me of a story me friend told me about living in ireland
he was at a pro choice protest and some frothing, seething piece of shit was screaming at him for it.
So my friend asks the guy "Do you want to support the english healthcare system? Don't you despise the English?"
The guy says "Of course. Bastards."
>so why are you forcing your women to go to england to get an abortion you ass backwards bumpkin
anyone who unironically worships conservative politics is a magnificent hypocrite and an ignorant fucking cunt
>the only reason people a person can be pro-life is for religious reasons
How old are you? Abortion is overwhelmingly a religious issue now whereas it was not in the past, and it all goes back to '79 and the Moral Majority movement. Numerous Christian sects didn't really give a shit until Falwell whipped them all into a frenzy over it, and now you'd think it was deeply-held church policy for centuries.
But even before then, the major opposition to abortion came from religious groups. Comstock laws came to pass only through support of the YMCA. The seed of anti-abortionism has always been planted by religious hands even though the Bible and certain churches haven't made such a huge deal about it in the past. Someone comes along and really tries to make it an issue, then everyone runs away with it.
Seriously, Mr. 20-Something, go educate yourself on the history of abortion in the US and Christian faith. Your naivete is depressing.
What about before just recently? Europe in the last 2000 years could do that as well, no? Really, how much do you think it costs to feed a baby?
>because as far as killing goes it's not that bad
>desperations to take care """"""despite horrible conditions"""""
Why do you act as if people did not live normally like this for thousands of years?
What in the world does that mean? Who doesn't know how a contraceptive pill works????
>pro murder protest
>piece of shit
No, sounds like a good guy if you ask me.
What are you even saying? Is this bait?
You're assuming I'm pro-welfare.
The parents have sole choice over their baby.
If they want their baby to grow up without a decent house or a decent home, that's their fault / choice. This is not the government's problem.
Maybe they'll realise they were too poor to have a child, and pass that wisdom onto their child. With welfare they will never realise they made their mistake.
I do believe in the government sending out welfare to people that RECENTLY lost their jobs, and that can prove they are on the hunt for a new job.
this is the mode of socialist government
they intentionally create problems so that they can create a law or authoritative body to "fix" it by swallowing tons of money
with extremely high degrees of honesty, socialism CAN work, though it is still inefficient. but defacto it fails by design
example is abortion. we don't abort niggers, then, nigger breed. the state created the problem. now, the niggers are starving, so the state feeds them. now, the niggers survived, so they spend their welfare money to buy guns and drugs. the state created that problem. now there is a criminal underground network with tons of power influencing politics, again, thanks to the leftists. so now the streets are unsafe and murder is rampant, so the democrats increase police presence, many of whom are under the pay of the criminals. so now the cops are corrupt, how does liberalism fix it? with a maoist style purge. in china the purges were against capitalists. in america, it is against racists. so now the "racists" are purged and government bodies are completely worthless, how do they fix it?...
hue hue... I never really thought about it that way.
But that's wrong. Tell me, where in the Bible does it specify killing a fetus?
Do you really not think people had a problem with killing unborn children before that? The Bible doesn't mention it, last time I checked..
>child is assumed to be doomed to a shit life of its unwanted
>society actively tries to stop suicide when somebody who has a shit life wants to end it
"You literally shouldn't be alive if your life isn't good"
okay, so you're not pro welfare
but if you are pro abortion, but anti mandatory abortion, you REALIZE that abortion is bad, and you don't want to see it forced.
so you want for people to be free to fuck up their lives or do bad things in terms of abortion, you think, GREAT, kill that baby! this is good because the government allows comfort and poverty releif.
and you think the role of the government is to ensure comfort, rather than protect against murder and crime. which is STUPID. because look at the following situation you oppose.
but if someone is to fuck up their own life, well, the government's job is to make sure they're comfy right? okay, let's force the abortion! NO BAD you say.
so essentially you say the government's duty is to provide aid and comfort, not to protect against violent crime. BUT, only to provide comfort you like. abortion, if it provides comfort, but is mandatory, you HATE it.
you prioritize comfort over life, but only at your own arbitrary standard. it's why none of your constitutions work, because there's no ideological parsimony or consistency. core tenets in your constitution disagree with each other.
>Abortion is overwhelmingly a religious issue now whereas it was not in the past,
Exactly. What I'm saying is that if you stop the typical person on the street in the US and ask them what kind of person opposes abortion, the words that will come out of their mouth are "those religious nuts".
But there are plenty of people who oppose it for good reasons that are not tied to religion.
If you can't understand the way someone thinks, you're going to have a hell of a time convincing them of anything they don't already believe.
People are going to fuck and you can't stop them. You can instill "responsibility" all you want, but it's not going to fly when it costs hundreds a month and needs to be maintained even through sexual droughts. I haven't really seen guys who hook up at a party give the lady $50 to cover his reliance on her having taken contraceptives.
Womens' contraceptives are entirely different beasts from condoms, which are cheap, need only be remembered right before intercourse, and can be carried around everywhere. And yet even guys can't remember something that simple.
Numbers 5 involves a ritual wherein wives consume something intended to induce abortion with the idea being that faithful wives don't miscarry, but unfaithful ones do. THE LORD, YOUR GOD, tells Moses to spread this ritual around, literally endorsing abortion.
And yet the Church would have everyone believe that abortion is one of the top social issues facing the world at the moment. Opposition to abortion is absolutely, unequivocably rooted in religious sensibility, even though it really shouldn't be by many scholarly interpretations of various texts and understandings of old church practices.
a lot of truth in that. for some reason I don't hear this argument very much, even among pop-libertarian folk. i feel like this is a concept that could really redpill liberal people if they think about it.
well, i say let people fail and people fill naturally find a way to fix the problem. it's what we're designed to do. socialist policies block the proper functioning of this cognitive process. people become confused. that's what you're seeing. like a snake with two heads going in opposite directions and just wiggling around
it's too complicated for people to understand. I like trump, he's obviously extremely intelligent, but keep in mind he is talking at the level of an 8th grader. he can't, no one can, push intelligent policy. he's reduced to memeing and is gonna backdoor his policies.
there's a reason china is blowing us out of the water right now. they do what they need to do, they don't need to explain it to 80 iq niggers.
they very thoroughly understand the pitfalls of socialism. our history in the next 30 years is going to resemble what happened under mao's quota system (melting down farm tools to meet quotas highly resembles decreasing academic standards to meet racial quotas) and the cultural revolution, which was basically peasants complaining about elite culture, or being "triggered"