How do we fight veganism?

>>61164201
I'm not a vegan because I like meat too much but there's nothing wrong with it. I wish I had the willpower to be vegan.

It's better for the animals and the environment why does it bother you so much?

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Yes.
We need to stop this evil goyim!
They are a danger to my prof... i mean their own health.
Also only evil antisemits like Hitler was vegetarians. Its like Ausschwitz allova again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H73zgvD5x48

vegan takes a trip to israel

>>61164201
Eating veggies is good. Forcing people to eat only veggies is degenerate

>>61164201
Eventually either humans will have to stop eating meat or produce meat from some amazing 3D printers or grow it on genetically modified plants.
This is because it would make it much more convenient to grow food that way in spaceships.

Shouldn't we Slovenians (given we're being slowly replaced into genocide and losing land every century) start thinking about moving to space already?

>>61164201
Why do you think you need to "stop" other people if they think differently then you? Why can't you just be at peace with the fact that different people like different things?

>>61164348
>It's better for the animals and the environment
But is it better for you? Shouldn't that be the first concern?

eating meat is degenerate

>>61164201
if its labia is cute then its a good vegan

>>61165022
If you're educated about nutrition you can thrive on a vegan diet.

Shouldn't that be the first concern?
The first concern for people is it tasting good and not having to get out of your way to avoid animal products. I'm guilty of this myself. People just start searching for excuses such as "muh protein" to justify their actions.

>>61165272
you can't naturally LIVE off a vegan diet much less thrive on it, you'd die of b12 deficiency

you can theoretically live off a vegetarian diet (which includes dairy and eggs) but it's still very risky

>>61165616
what are supplements

you can't naturally know all this things without a books or a computer, go back to the cave you came from

being vegan should be encoraged

non-degenerate societies value health and the well-being of animals

>>61165616
The ground has b12 in it. We used to get a lot of nutrients out of it. Grow your own veg and don't wash all the dirt off your produce.

>>61165812
>non-degenerate societies value health
But vegan isn't healthy. Meat is good for you.

>>61165966
>literally eat dirt so some animals that will never amount to anything anyways can live on a farm, fuck, and then die having not produced anything or contributed to the world in any meaningful way

yeah no thanks

>>61165753
i said NATURALLY

and supplements are notorious for not being well absorbed, we don't even know exactly how b12 is metabolized

do your research son

>>61165966
do you also like infections? and kidney stones?

face it that we're not meant to be vegan

granted we're not meant to eat so much meat either, but in moderation we need some, or at the very least, a butt-load of dairy and eggs

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>>61164201
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0IhZ-R1O8g

watch this and then tell me veganism is bad.

science and studies are all pointing towards processed meat beeing the root many many illnesses.

iam vegetarian but iam no dogmatic. i dont preach this. you have to come to this conclusion for yourself.

tldr:
meat makes you sick in the long run. science proof.

>>61164201
>Do we all agree veganism is degenerate?
Why would it be?

>>61166467
>processed meat
>meat makes you sick

Nice non-sequitur. If PROCESSED meat is bad, then don't eat it. Doesn't mean you need to get rid of all animal products.

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>tfw anorexic but use veganism as a cover for why I'm just eating veggies at the restaurant
>say it's for the animals but really don't give a fuck about them

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>this thread every day

seriously why do it? do you do it for the (you)s or something?

>>61166463
>appeal to nature
goodbye

>>61166594
dude... just watch the vid. i just wanted to drop it here for anybodeh with an open mind.

animal products as a whole bad for you bad for envidonment bad for morals etc etc

>>61166000
the healthiest people are vegan or nearly vegan (blue zones)
obviously it depends on what exactly you eat, there are other factors too

>>61164201
Veganism is piety for a post-religious world.

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>>61166708
> animal products as a whole bad for you

Humans have been eating meat for at least 100000 years. All of the sudden it's bad.

>>61166699
right now there's no alternative and i gave you two reasons, but i suppose if cherrypicking makes you feel better about yourself, then go ahead and sod off i guess

>>61164201
Eating meat and veggies is part of a healthy diet. Going extreme for either vegan or just meat is degenerate.

>>61164348
>and the environment
nope

>>61166751
>the healthiest people are vegan or nearly vegan

Citation needed.

Ah yes, vegans.
Shilling for Big Lettuce.

>>61164201

If we were to put forth minimal impact on environment, I believe the ratio is 2/3 plants + 1/3 animal should be your diet. Considering how few people actually gets their calories this way... the handful of vegan/vegetarians help push that ratio.

>>61166288
well it's what humans have been doing for forever

not that i'm recommending it. you can just supplement - literally eating a sweet or something like that. it's a bit unconvincing when people try to make a big deal out of this. why would this of all the things people do that are """unnatural""" (scaaaaary) be a problem?

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>>61166928
>Shilling for Big Lettuce.

>>61166852
Also, if you really want to be a snowflake you can also eat bugs, there are a shit ton of them and they are really nutricious.

>Researchers at Carnegie Mellon University (CMU) say that adopting the US Department of Agriculture's (USDA) current recommendations that people incorporate more fruits, vegetables, dairy and seafood in their diet would actually be worse for the environment than what Americans currently eat.

>"Eating lettuce is over three times worse in greenhouse gas emissions than eating bacon," said Paul Fischbeck, one of the researchers. "Lots of common vegetables require more resources per calorie than you would think. Eggplant, celery and cucumbers look particularly bad when compared to pork or chicken."

>>61166812
lots of religious people, Aryans mostly, were/are vegetarian/vegan
most non-religious people aren't
it shouldn't be tied to religion or non-religion

>>61164535
>Also only evil antisemits like Hitler was vegetarians.
Allied propaganda.

>>61166699
stop being a retard, it's not even appeal to nature

Kill all vegetarians and vegans, so we have enough food anymore. Both problems solved with a minimum of work (they're too weak for self-defense). That's efficiency.

>>61167288
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ge3PCgI-LA

>>61167355

How was it propaganda? His officers even fucking said he did.

There's not wrong with being a vegetarian. I mean, I'm not one, but if people choose it, it's whatever.

>researchers examined three different scenarios in terms of their energy and water use, and the greenhouse gas emissions that stem from the growing, processing, and transporting of food involved.

>In the first scenario, the impact of food production on the environment could be lessened if people simply ate less of what they already do. Shifting from the current average US diet – which is particularly high in calories – to a reduced calorie intake designed to achieve 'normal' body weights for the population, rather than perpetuating the two thirds that are currently obese, would result in a 9 percent decrease in energy use, water footprint, and emissions.

>However, in a second scenario, keeping calorie levels the same but adjusting the foods eaten to incorporate USDA recommendations that people eat more vegetables, fruits, dairy, and seafood would see energy use increase by 43 percent, with the water footprint increasing by 16 percent and emissions by 11 percent.

>And the third scenario – reducing calories while also shifting to the recommended foods – takes a greater toll on the environment too, with increases in energy use, water footprint, and gas emissions of 38 percent, 10 percent, and 6 percent respectively.

By eating sustainable, it means that you skip the meat and the milk from another mother and start eating more beans and all that. + Skip consuming shit that you don't deserve, like christmas present and pizza/alcohol.

>>61164201

wut

diet that eliminates heart disease and cancer degenerate? Are you crazy veganism is awesome.

>>61164201
Only leftists are vegans, and it weakens their minds and bodies. So whatever, I'm ok with it.

People can eat whatever they want when they no longer have to sustain on meat or animal products.

It's when they impose veganism on children and animals things go horribly wrong.

>>61167333
Veganism didn't even exist 200 years ago. It is a modern invention by and for leftist idiots. Like you.

>>61167414
watched 10 seconds, glad to see she agrees that people switching to a vegan diet would be worse

>>61167288
yeah people will eat 50 kg of lettuce per day because lettuce is eaten for calories
in the real world half of the plants produced are fed to animals, 90% of calories lost
everyone laughed about this study that doesn't have to do anything with real world issues

>>61165022
Is it better for the majority of the western culture? Yes, because we eat more meat and exercise less. There is no reason to eat meat 7 days a week. maybe 1-2 days a week is better for you.

>>61167421
>How was it propaganda? His officers even fucking said he did.
His favorite foods were trout and liver dumbling soup. His officers never said anything about it, you're just watching too much Hollywood, like the dumb American shit you are.

>There's not wrong with being a vegetarian.
Everything's wrong with it.

>>61165616
vegan and vegetarian is the same thing.

B12- doesn't come from meat, it comes from bacteria which can be grown separately.

>>61167524
except its not just lettuce

> current recommendations that people incorporate more fruits, vegetables, dairy and seafood in their diet would actually be worse for the environment than what Americans currently eat.

>>However, in a second scenario, keeping calorie levels the same but adjusting the foods eaten to incorporate USDA recommendations that people eat more vegetables, fruits, dairy, and seafood would see energy use increase by 43 percent, with the water footprint increasing by 16 percent and emissions by 11 percent.

>>And the third scenario – reducing calories while also shifting to the recommended foods – takes a greater toll on the environment too, with increases in energy use, water footprint, and gas emissions of 38 percent, 10 percent, and 6 percent respectively.

>>61167551
>There is no reason to eat meat 7 days a week. maybe 1-2 days a week is better for you.

Agreed. That's not veganism.

>>61164201
in the christian bible in the earthly kingdom of god of the future everyone is vegan

>>61167524
>in the real world half of the plants produced are fed to animals, 90% of calories lost
Good luck eating food for animals, bro. You'll need it lol.

Let me guess: 90% of posters ITT never saw a farm irl, never talked to a farmer and get their knowledge from the internet.

>>61167551
>Yes, because we eat more meat and exercise less
Historically, our meat consumption is pretty low.

>>61167508
watch the rest

>>61167421
hitler was not a vegetarian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H73zgvD5x48
go to 12:30

this thread is triggering me too hard with stupidity. im signing out for good

>>61166288

>Totally fine by eating poison and chemicals that is clearly dangerous for us
>Not fine by eating "dirt" that actually makes us healthier.

>>61167707
>watch the rest
no point, veganism is worse for the environment and we can all agree on that

>>61164201
Animals aren't as emotionally complex as vegans would like you to believe. So why would I feel bad for eating them?

>>61167621
no they arent

>>61166840
Yes, because people think exercise is bad too

>>61167730
>eating "dirt" that actually makes us healthier.
Oh Sweden...

Well, that's enough stupidity for me. I pray you all kill yourself and everyone your love with your fad diet. Peace.

>>61167490
are you thinking of the WORD vegan? careful with the idiot allegations. lazy to throw "leftist" around, too. i'm not and it says a lot about you that you can't even imagine things that you're unfamiliar with

>Vegetarians degenerate
>Hitler was a vegetarian
>Hitler being degenerate
The list does like this from most red pilled aryan to degenerate jew.

-big and small game meat eater
-Steak and Pork (or local meats)
-Non red meat vegetarian
-Chicken or Fish only
-Fish and Vegetarian
-"Organic" farms
-Tofu fags
-Halal
-Gluten free
-Kosher

>>61166894

this is common knowledge
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-okinawa-diet-living-to-100/

>>61167645
Yes, that's eating sustainable. But to compensate the climate problems 1-2 times a week can easy be turned down to 0 until everyone takes their "responsibility".

>>61167705
No, historically, our meat consumption is very high. Just compare it to 50 years ago.
But you are right if we compare it to 5000 years ago, but that's not accurate.

>>61167801
Yes, vegetarian is vegetables. Lacto-vegetarian and ovo-vegetarian is the word for people who eats eggs and all that.

>>61168111
>But to compensate the climate problems

I don't give a shit about that. I care about what is best for me, and meat belongs in a balanced diet.

>>61167705
maybe he's a butthurt farmer

>>61164201
Wait until food production becomes more of a local thing. They'll eat meat or they'll die of malnutrition.

>>61168209

>what's best for me
>doesn't care about climate change

i see

>>61164201
who cares?

If someone wants to be a vegan I don't give a fuck

>>61168274
>wait until there's a plane crash and they have to eat corpses
>cannibalism is great

>>61164201

I don't mind vegan food because I can't digest milk and butter products so well anymore. Gives me potty problems.

Meat is fine but I can't handle dairy. So vegan is nice in terms of options.

>>61168209
Are you planning on having children? If you are, climate change should be a priority for you. Or if you don't want air like china it should be enough for you to care about it.

>>61168328
> muh climate change

people 100 years from now will laugh about the climate alarmists

>>61168111
and that responsibility is to have the same diets but just eat less food >>61167424


not to be vegan, which is bad for the environment

>>61164201

veganism is the least degenerate because tons of studies have shown it is the healthiest diet

>Buying meat from the supermarket, pumped full of anti biotics and god knows what else is considered non-degenerate and manly.

Meat eaters will cause the extinction of humanity.

>>61164201
no you moron, it's the roaches that you associate with veganism

>>61168399
Milk from another childs mother is strange from my point of view. The milk is not adapted to us, and is mainly to make a child grow. It was a good source when people didn't have so much food, but now people have too much.

>>61168466
I agree!

>>61168466
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/caloric-restriction-vs-animal-protein-restriction/

you can have the benefits of caloric restriction by reducing animal protein and eat as much as you want

Its pretty much undisputed at this point that veganism or at least a diet that consists of 90% plant based foods is the most healthy diet.

Theres literally no benefit to eating meat in this day and age, when theres so many high protein vegan substitutes. In addition you wont be contributing to mass deforestation.

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>>61165616
you actually can, by eating directly off the tree, off the vine and out of the ground without 'cleaning' the fruit/veggies.

>>61168656
there are lots that show it is less healthy compared to a balanced diet

ex. higher rates of colorectal, prostate, breast, lung, stomach, brain, cervical cancer
Appleby PN, Key TJ, Thorogood M, Burr ML, Mann J. Mortality in British vegetarians. Public Health Nutr. 2002 Feb;5(1):29-36.

Key TJ, Appleby PN, Spencer EA, Travis RC, Roddam AW, Allen NE. Cancer incidence in vegetarians: results from the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC-Oxford). Am J Clin Nutr 2009;89(suppl):1S-7S

5. Key TJ, Fraser GE, Thorogood M, Appleby PN, Beral V, Reeves G, Burr ML, Chang- Claude J, Frentzel-Beyme R, Kuzma JW, Mann J, McPherson K. Mortality in vegetarians and nonvegetarians: detailed findings from a collaborative analysis of 5 prospective studies. Am J Clin Nutr. 1999 Sep;70(3 Suppl):516S-524S.

Key TJ, Appleby PN, Spencer EA, Travis RC, Allen NE, Thorogood M, Mann JI. Cancer incidence in British vegetarians. Br J Cancer. 2009 Jul 7;101(1):192-7. Epub 2009 Jun 16.

>>61168795
that would be worse for the environment though, better to continue with my regular diet and just eat less

>>61167583
provide proof kraut like anyones going to take your word for it a Mongolian image board

>>61167424
Where can I find the study?

>>61164201
Veganism is by far the healthiest diet out there. Too bad I love burgers and cancer too much.

>>61169237
don't worry about it, that's just vegan propaganda

>>61169349
No, it's called not being a dumbfuck and doing research. High fat diet increases igf-1 levels.

>>61169458
and vegan/vegetarian diets increase your risk for a variety of cancers

>>61169458
>>61169530
>>61169349
>>61169237

nice citations

>>61164201
>>61164348
well considering vegan diets lack valuable things people can only get from animal products, lack of these causes huge damage to the liver, kidneys and thyroid over time and limit's brain capacity.
To say it is better for animals is false, the animals we eat primarily are domesticated, there is no where on the planet where we could release them into where they could integrate with a natural ecosystem, and so it would be up to humans to look after them, requiring huge senseless cullings in reflection of human growth and economic stability.
lastly, to sustain the entire planet on agriculture is vastly unrealistic and wholly unsustainable, not only will the population suffer long lasting, long term vitamin deficiency, over cultivation of land would destroy the soil and decimate wildlife habitats.
the myth that veganism is healthier comes from very unscientific investigations, the major reason why vegans are usually perceived as healthier is because vitamin deficiency i not taken into account and people who change their lifestyle to veganism are much more likely to avoid unhealthy habits like sweets,cigaretts and alcohol, purely as a result of their overarching lifestyle.

TL;DR: no need to fight it, they will kill themselves.

>>61169530
Where the fuck did you hear that? How fucking dumb are you?

>http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/22/2/286.full

>http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/vegetarian-diet-linked-to-lower-colon-cancer-risk-201503117785

>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3048091/

>>61169664
>>61169704
see >>61169019


if you like burgers so much just do a ketogenic diet

>>61169743
>asking for citations hurr you must like americans
no one is going to listen to what you say without any evidence to back your claim up kek

>>61169664
>>61169530
>>61169349
>>61169019


>Vegans tend to be thinner, have lower serum cholesterol, and lower blood pressure, reducing their risk of heart disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19279075

> Vegetarian diets confer protection against cardiovascular diseases, cardiometabolic risk factors, some cancers and total mortality. Compared to lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets, vegan diets seem to offer additional protection for obesity, hypertension, type-2 diabetes, and cardiovascular mortality. Males experience greater health benefits than females.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24871675

> Vegetarian dietary patterns were associated with lower body mass index, lower prevalence and incidence of diabetes mellitus, lower prevalence of the metabolic syndrome and its component factors, lower prevalence of hypertension, lower all-cause mortality, and in some instances, lower risk of cancer.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24898223

>>61169743
I love me some Burgers. I don't really care. I just think people should look at the statistics before making asinine statements.

>>61169854
There ya go

>>61169743
more like this pls
>>61169854

>>61169835
>no one is going to listen to what you say without any evidence to back your claim up kek
it was already posted and linked to in the post you responded to

>>61166463
so cut down your meat intake to once a week/month. If you are talking about moderation I doubt it would be much more than that. Hell most people can't even do one day.

Vegans that keep to themselves are fine.

The ones that go around telling others to stop eating meat can go into the trash.

>>61170024
Agreed. Let people do what they want.

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>>61167583

>you're just watching too much Hollywood, like the dumb American shit you are.

That's pretty god damn funny considering how Hollywood is literally pro-vegetarian in many of its sectors including actors/actresses. Wouldn't they portray Hitler as the opposite? As some type of murder that enjoys the torture of animals when killing them?

>Everything's wrong with it.

Why? Honestly, the only thing wrong with it is the egos that vegetarians have and how they attempt to enforce their shit onto others. Along of course nutritional shit that non-meat diets have.

I guarantee most vegetarians here are okay with the abortion of a 24 week of more fetus. Don't listen to these people.

>>61169906
more citations?

sure

Increased risk for overall cancer

Chang-Claude J, Frentzel-Beyme R. Dietary and lifestyle determinants of mortality among German vegetarians. Int J Epidemiol. 1993 Apr;22(2):228-36.

Appleby PN, Key TJ, Thorogood M, Burr ML, Mann J. Mortality in British vegetarians. Public Health Nutr. 2002 Feb;5(1):29-36.

Key TJ, Appleby PN, Davey GK, Allen NE, Spencer EA, Travis RC. Mortality in British vegetarians: review and preliminary results from EPIC-Oxford. Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Sep;78(3 Suppl):533S-538S.

Colorectal

Key TJ, Appleby PN, Crowe FL, Bradbury KE, Schmidt JA, Travis RC. Cancer in British vegetarians: updated analyses of 4998 incident cancers in a cohort of 32,491 meat eaters, 8612 fish eaters, 18,298 vegetarians, and 2246 vegans. Am J Clin Nutr. 2014 Jun 4.

Key TJ, Appleby PN, Spencer EA, Travis RC, Roddam AW, Allen NE. Cancer incidence in vegetarians: results from the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC-Oxford). Am J Clin Nutr 2009;89(suppl):1S-7S

Appleby PN, Key TJ, Thorogood M, Burr ML, Mann J. Mortality in British vegetarians. Public Health Nutr. 2002 Feb;5(1):29-36.

Prostate

Appleby PN, Key TJ, Thorogood M, Burr ML, Mann J. Mortality in British vegetarians. Public Health Nutr. 2002 Feb;5(1):29-36.

Breast

Rao DN, Ganesh B, Desai PB. Role of reproductive factors in breast cancer in a low -risk area: a case-control study. Br J Cancer. 1994 Jul;70(1):129-32.

Appleby PN, Key TJ, Thorogood M, Burr ML, Mann J. Mortality in British vegetarians. Public Health Nutr. 2002 Feb;5(1):29-36.

Lung

Key TJ, Appleby PN, Spencer EA, Travis RC, Roddam AW, Allen NE. Cancer incidence in vegetarians: results from the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC-Oxford). Am J Clin Nutr 2009;89(suppl):1S-7S

Appleby PN, Key TJ, Thorogood M, Burr ML, Mann J. Mortality in British vegetarians. Public Health Nutr. 2002 Feb;5(1):29-36.

There's more, ran out of space

Only diet that doesn't cause cancer.

Look m8, there are many reasons not to eat meat. From an ecological standpoint: the meat production industry is a very polluting industry, and it's supposed to be the main driver behind ocean acidification, desertification - non-directly through agriculture and deforestation, to create ranches for animal grazing.

There are also ethical concerns obviously, about industrially raised animals and health concerns, because these animals are pumped full of antibiotics and who knows what else.

Meat production as it exists today is unsustainable in the long term.

>>61164201
vegan here and doing so in third year of it now, for health reasons. It is by far the best way to eat, based on science not personal prescript nor opinion. Read Michael Greger, MD's new book called "How Not to Die" and look in the back of it for a hundred pages of citatinos from peer-reviewed literature in English language journals, including all the important journals too, like Science, Nature, JAMA, PNAS, and others, providing a wealth of scientisic evidence and even meta analysis of data by the primary most-respected sources like Chocran group. No fewer that 100 major named studies are referred to within Greger's book. It's a compilation in one place of all the science behind it. Like greger, i am a medfag. Although I don't personally know him, he's the reason why I flipped to being a vegan after a myocardial infarct and bad hypercholesterolemia. Fact is that vegan diet can reverse atheroscherosis and heart disease like mine. I have left ventricular diastolic dysfunction and HTN so the goal to stay alive a long time is supprted by vegan diet. It can also prevent cancer deaths by dramatically reducing index of risk.

VEGANISM IS THE MODERN DAY EQUIVALENT OF QUITTING SMOKING.

>>61170221
Lung contd..

Key TJ, Appleby PN, Spencer EA, Travis RC, Allen NE, Thorogood M, Mann JI. Cancer incidence in British vegetarians. Br J Cancer. 2009 Jul 7;101(1):192-7. Epub 2009 Jun 16.

Stomach

Key TJ, Fraser GE, Thorogood M, Appleby PN, Beral V, Reeves G, Burr ML, Chang- Claude J, Frentzel-Beyme R, Kuzma JW, Mann J, McPherson K. Mortality in vegetarians and nonvegetarians: detailed findings from a collaborative analysis of 5 prospective studies. Am J Clin Nutr. 1999 Sep;70(3 Suppl):516S-524S.

Brain

Mills PK, Preston-Martin S, Annegers JF, Beeson WL, Phillips RL, Fraser GE. Risk factors for tumors of the brain and cranial meninges in Seventh-Day Adventists. Neuroepidemiology. 1989;8(5):266-75.

Key TJ, Appleby PN, Spencer EA, Travis RC, Allen NE, Thorogood M, Mann JI. Cancer incidence in British vegetarians. Br J Cancer. 2009 Jul 7;101(1):192-7. Epub 2009 Jun 16.

Cervical

Key TJ, Appleby PN, Spencer EA, Travis RC, Allen NE, Thorogood M, Mann JI. Cancer incidence in British vegetarians. Br J Cancer. 2009 Jul 7;101(1):192-7. Epub 2009 Jun 16.

>>61169854
Maybe vegans tend to be more health-orientated. It doesn't mean it's all caused by not eating meat.

>>61164855
We will colonize the asteroid belt.

>>61167621
it really isn't
Vegetarians do not eat any animals. This includes pigs, chickens, cows, sea animals, and every other animal. In addition to not consuming any animal flesh, a vegan (strict vegetarian) also doesn't eat dairy products, eggs, or any other product derived from an animal.

>>61170367
>>61170221
>>61167424
>>61167288

As you can see, claims that vegan diets are healthier + better for the environment can easily be refuted

>>61170221
>>61170367
he provided links I do not want to have to go copying and pasting shit

>>61169694
don't forget your milk good goy

>>61170379
because many compare vegans against people who don't make conscious dietary choices

>>61170487
thats fine, you asked for citations

>>61170306
Agreed. There are much better ways to produce meat than we do today. Meat production can actually be a good thing if done properly. Look at how the Savannah animals graze and move and why they move that way. You can learn some lessons on how grasslands are best managed.

>>61164201
Not living like the fuhrer. Degenerate subhuman slav.

>>61170577
was kinda hoping for links to actual sites but I see your point desu im a vegetarian not for health reason but for the fact that I do not currently need it when I have a abundance of food available to me but say eg apocalypse happens or war I would eat meat in a heartbeat

>>61166886
factory farming is pretty bad for the environment, especially when you consider the clear cutting places like South America are doing.

Even large vegetable farms can put excessive amounts of nitrogen in water supplies.


its why more people should hunt

>>61170740
medfag here. a good pro-vegan health site is

"nutrition facts dot org"

where you will find hundreds of short intelligent video clips by topic, mostly of a medical nature, showing the scientific evidence for or against this or that. The doc who runs it, does so for the public good and it's non-profit. He's a vegan too, like me. Highly recommended.

Everyone becoming vegan would end world hunger, end most of global warming (or what is supposed to be global warming), end many health problem and save social systems, reduce poverty and fix many other problems.

But meat taste good.

>>61170763
Modern food production in general is bad for the environment. Ranchers don't graze their cattle properly and farmers who rely on NPK fertilizer pollute water ways and have soil that would be dead without the fertilizer.

>>61170919
cheers

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>Things that annoy op
"Degenerate"

>>61171053
This. 9/10. The one point off was for meat taste good. Stop telling this and the idea goes away in your mind. If there's a molecule of animal product in something I consume I am not going to protest and starve myself. But on the other hand, let's keep total calories from any animal source to under 500 per year. This allows for the occasional roll that may have a drop of whey in it, or the slice of cake somebody at work made with egg in it. Otherwise it kinda difficult. So I consider 99.99% compliance the same as 100% compliance. On the other hand, I just bought two new belts and a pair of canvas shoes not leather anywhere on it. And when I bought a new Honda civic two months ago I specifically only wanted the base model with NO leather inside. That was consumer choice I felt good about.

>>61170919

I Hadn't heard of the site before. Thanks

>>61164201
Meat eating is degenerate faggot. Literally asking for heart disease and blood clots when you eat those fucking burgers. Stick to natures garden and avoid the meaty processed jew

>>61171491
there are also about 25 90 minute compilations of the short videos for $20 each I think. I have the last 6 of them and they are a treasure trove. The money is for charity not personal gain of anybody. Aside from that, it's all on the site in alphabetical listed short clips so watch that for free, and then buy the guy's new book on the NYT best seller list at the moment. Amazon has it for about $17 in hard cover. Easy to read. Called "How Not to Die". This book is not about somebody's opinion but about the science behind veganism broken down by medical topics. So for instance, you can look up kidney disease and see how a vegan diet helps that. I recommend. the advice therein for free could save your life.

Been vegetarian 16 years and vegan for 6 years. Would never turn back. Feel 1000x better than when I ate meat and dairy. Am far healthier, now I'm at my ideal weight for my height/age, look healthier & have far more energy.

>vegans want people to live more so they can contribute to global warming longer

>>61171846
i salute you. well done anon. I wish every patient sick and nearly dead could have done like you. a good number of them would be fine and feeling great as opposed to finished. The number of cancer deaths and CAD, CVD, etc.. could probably reduce by half if/when vegan diet became the medical and social norm.

>>61171846
But can you lift and get ripped?

>>61172185

Was this thread made so this shill could promote his website?

>>61164201
I can understand vegetarianism, but veganism is just retarded holier-than-thou bullshit. "An omelette is an abortion on a plate," "milk and honey are stealing," all that crap. They are among the most annoying, insufferable cunts on the face of the earth and I will gladly eat my meat loudly and messily in front of them.

>>61172123
it's true that vegans fart more. but as a vegan, my colon is predominantly prevotella sp. whereas the meat-eaters have bacteriodes sp. mostly. So the change in gut flora means the vegan fart doesn't smell so bad as the meat eater. Also, I consume on a bad day about 100 g of fiber in whole food daily. This is VERY HEALTHY at about 7 times the norm for the standard american diet (SAD). I have no body odor, no bad breath, and there's almost no smell when I go to do a number 2 about twice or three times a day. This means my GI system is fantastic and clean. Vegans poo more but it's better for your health this way.

>>61172516
>. "An omelette is an abortion on a plate,"
That's not the reason. Most vegans are vegans because eggs is exploiting other animals, growing them just for that and making it a whole industry about it. Vegan is more politicial and ecologist than vegetarian who are more about "muh feels" (that's why so many vegetarians eat fish anyway)

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>>61172335

Yes and yes

I'm not a total vegetarian, but I do limit my meat consumption, especially land-based meats for many of the same reasons as other vegetarians. The lack of B12 in vegetables will probably keep me from ever completely excluding meat and I've always found the vegetarian excuses and solutions for it to be unsatisfying. A diet that requires supplements is a bad diet, I'm not going to eat dirt and I'm not going to miss out on an important vitamin because Moonbeam and Bongwater say they do fine without it. In fact, the "enlightened" feeling some vegetarians report may actually be parts of their brains malfunctioning because of the B12 deficiency.

However, I do think a diet of that restricts animal products is best both for health and the environment, and the arguments in this thread need better citations (or for the claim that it's not better for the environment, any citations at all would be an improvement).

>>61169019
These studies don't say anything. Some interesting bits from "Mortality in British vegetarians" include "the study is not large enough to exclude small or moderate differences for specific causes of death", "The mortality of both the vegetarians and the nonvegetarians in this study is low compared with national rates." and "more research on this topic is required". And why are they all from the same people? Thousands if not millions of people study nutrition, cardiology and fields related to those, and these are the only ones anyone can find to say vegetarianism is unhealthy (or not even unhealthy, more like "we did a study on it, but screwed things up so it's inconclusive")?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19297458

>>61167424
Is there a link or book I can find on this?

>>61172355
honestly, it's not my website. i have no conflict of interest. i was browsing and stopped in. I am not OP either.

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>>61172355
seems that way. here's how a vegan diet helps breast cancer

>>61164201
Veganism is retarded but probably not outright degenerate.
Vegans really only harm themselves with idiot ideology. Their lifestyle is expensive and unhealthy and so from a Darwinian standpoint all they are managing to do is handicap themselves physiologically and exonomically.
It's like the people who don't believe in vaccines. Eventually as disease ravages them and their children their ideology will die a natural death.
It actually makes me happy to know that these groups largely overlap

>>61172751

>171cm

WHEN

>>61164201
Carnivorous vegan diet master race.

>>61172335

you can get just as much protein from vegan sources but you don't get the added inflammation that meat causes which prevents your muscles from growing as much from meat-based protein compared to vegan

>>61164201
I would put my meat in her veganism if you know what I mean eggs day day day

I look at it as a matter of production. It is more efficient to just grow food for humans than it is for animals which are then eaten by humans. If you cut out the middleman then you'll have more land dedictated to food production. I'm not a vegan btw.

>>61170221
What is this? This looks like lists of names an cancers.

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http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/22/2/286.full
Background: Cancer is the second leading cause of death in the United States. Dietary factors account for at least 30% of all cancers in Western countries. As people do not consume individual foods but rather combinations of them, the assessment of dietary patterns may offer valuable information when determining associations between diet and cancer risk.

Methods: We examined the association between dietary patterns (non-vegetarians, lacto, pesco, vegan, and semi-vegetarian) and the overall cancer incidence among 69,120 participants of the Adventist Health Study-2. Cancer cases were identified by matching to cancer registries. Cox proportional hazard regression analysis was conducted to estimate hazard ratios, with “attained age” as the time variable.

Results: A total of 2,939 incident cancer cases were identified. The multivariate HR of overall cancer risk among vegetarians compared with non-vegetarians was statistically significant [HR, 0.92; 95% confidence interval (CI), 0.85–0.99] for both genders combined. Also, a statistically significant association was found between vegetarian diet and cancers of the gastrointestinal tract (HR, 0.76; 95% CI, 0.63–0.90). When analyzing the association of specific vegetarian dietary patterns, vegan diets showed statistically significant protection for overall cancer incidence (HR, 0.84; 95% CI, 0.72–0.99) in both genders combined and for female-specific cancers (HR, 0.66; 95% CI, 0.47–0.92). Lacto-ovo-vegetarians appeared to be associated with decreased risk of cancers of the gastrointestinal system (HR, 0.75; 95% CI, 0.60–0.92).

Conclusion: Vegetarian diets seem to confer protection against cancer.

Impact: Vegan diet seems to confer lower risk for overall and female-specific cancer than other dietary patterns. The lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets seem to confer protection from cancers of the gastrointestinal tract. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev; 22(2);

>>61167355
Hitler was put on a vegan based diet by private healther doctors trying to keep him alive and functioning. He didn't react well to meat but still ate it.

So both is kind of true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PR64HGJoyk