>>61157158 I'm also surprised that today muslims are not that much butthurt for the mongol conquest which definitely put their glorious caliphate to shit. Apparently Allah left a bunch of polytheists pagans to take over.
owning large ammounts of land doesnt mean winning. owning land and actually using it to benefit yourself is winning. they were just niggers who slaughtered people and gibs me dat the land with no real purpose or idea how to use that land to make profit and accumulate real power.
>>61157458 >>61157638 >>61157648 To be fair I only had a single class on world history in high school and I haven't taken a single world history class since then. Ever since then I've focused on my major. I work on compilers for a living if that means anything to you.
Well the most probable speculation is that they actually had guns and were the ones to brought them to europe Coz otherwise i find it really hard to believe they supply achievements Big industrialized nations many centuries later struggled do provide for a 500k man army(fucking today 500k standing army is considered big), doing so for century while also being nomads going from place to place durning dark ages wrecking everyone nonstop is something miraclous unless there is some real game changer like guns and cannons which none of your enemies had Basically mongols to everyone else were like colonizing empires to all kinds of natives centuries later
>>61157928 The reason nomads can field so many soldiers is because every able-bodied man in a soldier to them. All of them have rode horses and hunted/practiced with bows since they were small boys, so even a young 20-year old man has 10-15 years of practical experience.
>owning large ammounts of land doesnt mean winning. owning land and actually using it to benefit yourself is winning.
They looted cities and later taxed them you dumbass.
>they were just niggers who slaughtered people and gibs me dat the land with no real purpose or idea how to use that land to make profit and accumulate real power.
They controlled the land which connected China with the Middle East with Eastern Europe which hadn't been done before. Because they were so fearsome all the bandits dissapeared so all the disparate groups could trade with each other under the Mongols authority.
>"The opening of new trade routes, combined with the widespread destruction of manufacturing in Persia and Iraq by the Mongol invasions, created new opportunities for Chinese manufacturing. The Mongol conquest of China had been far less disruptive than the military campaigns in the Middle East, and Khubilai pressed for the expansion of traditional Chinese wares into these markets as well as the widespread transfer of Muslim and Indian technology to China. Through their shares, the members of the Mongol royal family controlled much of the production throughout Eurasia, but they depended on the merchant class to transport and sell these wares."
Weatherford, Jack (2005-03-22). Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World (pp. 224-225). Crown Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
>they lost the land almost as fast as they got it
It lasted for 162 years, a lot longer than the empire of that mustached guy you fanboys gush about.
Look at the logistics part. Supplying a mongol army is a lot easier then a modern one.
The had wavesome of waves of mounted bowman and horsemen. Literally showing up out of no where some random afternoon. Storm the castle. Then capture the town leader and make him swear Alligence. Or make him pay a ridiculous sum. If he won't do one he gets the other.
>>61157124 Fear Italia...fear... Their government is notorious and censors internet, harvests organs from criminals, publicly humiliates unwanted behaviours, ignores safety for speed and has little power to regulate quality of products (gradually getting better: it is as you'd say, sacrificing accuracy for speed but slowly gaining both).
Many people in china live in good apartments on the backs of farmers who do not even have electricity or worse...blocks of apartments underdeveloped populated by homeless...which the government views as criminal and often kills off....
>>61158372 >Look at the logistics part. Supplying a mongol army is a lot easier then a modern one. Depends on where you are. They're very suited for steppes, other terrain doesn't favor them all that much.
If you listen to Dan Carlin's podcast series on Genghis Khan and the Mongols you get a good idea of why.
1. They were the zenith of horse archery but its a mistake to think that was the only reason. Horse archery existed for a long time, and horse archers aren't good at siegecraft and conquering cities.
2. Genghis Khan was like a asian Bill Belichick (inb4 Spygate). He was a master strategist and he was good at picking out young talent and molding them to his uses.
3. The Chinese had the most advanced military technology at the time. Because Genghis conquered the Chinese first (specifically the Jin Chinese) he absorbed their military knowledge like Megaman absorbs his enemies powers. So combining his horse archers with Chinese siege engineers he was easily able to take out the other great powers (Khwarizian Empire, Russian states, Eastern Europe)
4. The Mongols had a great spying network and Genghis used trickery to get his enemies to fight each other and keep them off balance so he would have the most advantageous situation when the fighting started.
5. If you resisted the Mongols they would kill every single man, woman, child and even the dogs and cats in a city so eventually cities just surrendered instead of resisting because of their fearsome reputation.
>>61157158 It is mostly this. No one wants the shitty steppes that mongols come from. 90% of that land is trash, it's like conquering denver then saying you conquered colorado.
>>61158321 The mongols brought a dark age, don't talk like they were good guys. Their rape and mass murder didn't help trade and throwing bodies with plague over castle walls certainly didn't help either. The sacking of ancient libraries was the cherry on top...
>>61157959 >were tolerant with religious freedom Not with human lives...
>>61158730 >they would kill every single man, woman, child and even the dogs and cats This seems questionable. As you said they had a spy network, assuming that's true then propaganda isn't out of the question. If you kill everyone then news like that can't get out and it might serve to enhance an enemies strength because it's do or die, surrender may not seem like a possibility.
Overall mongols were shit tier conquerors, their empire consisted of mostly flat land no one wanted while they raped the few people around.
>Genghis Khan, and the following Yuan Emperors forbade Islamic practicies like Halal butchering, forcing Mongol methods of butchering animals on Muslims, and other restrictive degrees continued. Muslims had to slaughter sheep in secret. Genghis Khan directly called Muslims and Jews "slaves", and demanded that they follow the Mongol method of eating rather than the halal method. Circumcision was also forbidden. Jews were also affected, and forbidden by the Mongols to eat Kosher.
>>61159555 >The mongols brought a dark age Trade always flourishes in large empires and with it comes wealth and exchange of ideas. At the height of the Roman Empire you could travel from the border of Scotland to the heart of Egypt and still be in the same country protected by the same laws with a professional military protecting the cities and roads.
The Mongol leader Temujin (AD 1167-1227), better known by his title Genghis Khan (Universal Ruler), was a man of strongly Nordish racial ancestry. According to the Persian historian Ab ul Ghasi, the tribal clan to which Temujin belonged, were known as the Bourchikoun (Grey-Eyed Men). [Günther (1934) 185; Lamb (1928) 22.] The ancestral mother and founder of this clan was known as Alan goa (beautiful Alan).
Temujin himself was noted in Chinese descriptions of him, for his tall stature and heavy beard. [Günther (1934) 185.] We should also note the following depiction of Temujin's appearance, as given by Harold Lamb, in his biography of the great Khan:
"He must have been tall, with high shoulders, his skin a whitish tan. His eyes, set far apart under a sloping forehead, did not slant. And his eyes were green, or blue-grey in the iris, with black pupils. Long reddish-brown hair fell in braids to his back." [Lamb (1928) 23.]
Ab ul Ghasi also observed that the family of Yesugai, the father of Temujin, were known for the fact that their children often had fair complexions, and blue or grey eyes. [Günther (1934) 185.] Temujin's wife, Bourtai, bore a name which means "Grey-Eyed". [Lamb (1928) 23.]
Cavalry has been the most important aspect of warfare since people first figured out how to ride horses. Up until modern times, armies would meet and clash briefly. The loser would be repelled and retreat. The majority of casualties the loser of the battle would then suffer would come during this retreat at the hands of the winning side's cavalry, who would follow the retreating army and pick them apart. This is why Alexander the Great is estimated to have only lost as few as a thousand men under his command. He never lost a battle.
The mongols were an army composed entirely if the best cavalry in the world. Even better than that they figured out a simple tactic that they used over and over again with constant success. They sent out a small decoy unit to intentionally be defeated by their opposition. Then this unit would retreat. The "victorious" army would take the bait every time and attempt a cavalry charge. The mongol bait unit would draw them out of their defenses and lead them to the actual army where they would have fresh horses waiting. The enemy would be exhausted and vulnerable by the time they got there and would inevitably be destroyed.
The mongols just kept going around trolling the fuck out of Eurasia with this tactic. It's pretty funny really.
>>61157124 Empty barren/mountainous lands, lots and lots of horses, clever administrative techniques, as well as no need to be rooted in one spot, allowing for extremely large military population and better foraging capabilities.
Also, for some reason, people didn't have the balls to band together for the sake of independence until they'd reached Europe and run out of steam, and they didn't even overthrow individual khanates for the most part until around a hundred years after the initial invasions.
Another fun fact. When the mongols got hungry they nicked their horse's neck and drank the blood with a little milk in there. The horse was totally fine. All of their horses were female for that reason.
>>61158538 Bullshit faggot. The Kamikaze hit only after the Japs pushed them back unto their boats at the beachead. The Japs wrecked the Mongols even harder on the 2nd invasion. The combined Mongol, China, Korean invasion was sent packing. Only when the multination alliance was in full retreat did the second Kamikaze hit. The remain mongol forces were stranded and mercilessly wrecked. Christ, read a history book or atleast wikipedia before spouting such garbage.
>>61161529 You're comparing apples and oranges. Samurai never even crossed my mind. If we were comparing feudal knights and samurai I'd bet on your ancestors every time. Amazing swords and better armor. But we're not. We're talking about horse archers. And honestly I have to take the mongols over the yabusame every time.
>>61161978 >kamikaze hit only after the naps pushed them back
That's not true at all though. The kamikaze hit after the mongols won three battles in a row, in which the defending Japanese were almost entirely slaughtered down to the last man. Then the typhoon hit and knocked out 200 ships worth of Mongolians. Easy peezy one two threesy for the Japanese after that.
During the second invasion the Japanese were paddling some mongol ass for a while, definitely. But who knows what would have happened if not for a second fleet destroying typhoon.
You gotta give credit where credit is due. The divine wind carried the day both times.
>>61163033 Those 3 battles were the mongols won were on tiny islands with only a few hundred defenders (Tsushim and Iki for example). The Japs won the 2 main battles that counted paricularly Hakata Bay on Kyushu, were a Japanese archer killed the Mongol leader, thus forcing a retreat of their respective forces back to their ships. The Japs suffered heavy casulties but were no where near wiped out (especially with reinforcements enroute to Hakata).
The second invasion speaks for itself. If's, maybe's, possiblies don't factor in. Even with Mongol reinforcements enroute,uneffected by a typhoon, it's doubtful they would have taken the island.
>>61164748 It's all irrelevant to the point I was making at the outset anyway. The mongols were terrific horse archers. A fucking failed naval siege of a nation composed of small islands hardly constitutes evidence to the contrary.
Who knows what would have happened if not for two separate ridiculously fortunate typhoons? Who cares? It's entertaining enough for me the way it happened anyway.
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