>>61067264 >>61067279 >People telling people not to get mad There's something which I kinda just hate about this kind of logic. Sure, you know, hugs and kisses, but the kid who tweeted this is literal spread degenerative thought.
"We are building a dictatorship of relativism", you declared in your homily at the opening of the conclave [in 2005], "that does not recognize anything as definitive and whose ultimate standard consists solely of one's own ego and desires."
>>61067479 >Arts based careers One can easily practice philosophy and teach successor generations, but is seriously an entire career dedicated to producing products which produces no material value worth it?
what is architecture. what is philosophy. what is literature
art has literally the bread and butter of the white man. without art and immagination we would no better than niggers. jewish art has ruined art so you have people like the kid in the op who probably paints 90 pictures 2d pictures of a penis in different angles and calls it art. but real art goes hand in hand with science see leonardo davinci etc etc etc
>>61067100 Yeah, sure, you making drawings of humans transforming into diapers or statues sucking themselves off is just as important as jobs of people who dedicated their whole lives to studying so they could contribute to the overall progress of the humanity.
>>61067739 >leonardo davinci Well, Leo wasn't necessarily an artist, he also was a scientist, doctor, geologist, astronomer, engineer and much much more. His art came from his logic, one can't just pursue art as a career, that provides no material gain for yourself or for man around you.
I'm not bemoaning art at all, I'm just saying that pursuing an "artist career" is naive and doomed to fail.
Though the tweet is stupid, he's right, scientific careers are much more important that artistic careers, because through science we actually achieve and innovate... What's to stop a scientist from becoming an artist?
someone should tell this hippy to fuck off to some shithole island that doesn't even have electricity. if art is just as important as science then he should be able to make do with just art, right?
art is fucking worthless without science. it is what people who can't do shit do. like a critic or an internet commenter. science stands on it's own merit and a society without emotion would have use for science, but not for art.
>art Not relevant to the survival of Humanity. Easily replaceable. Any idiot can do it. All required for art to exist is for one bored Human to exist.
>science Relevant to the survival of Humanity. Not easily replaceable as the conditions for achieving expertise are harsh. Only people with high willpower, intelligence, and thirst for knowledge can get into it. High amounts of resources, laboratories, specialized manufacture, libraries of books and knowledge, and peer support, are required for science to advance.
The only idiots who wish for art to be equal in standing to science are the copyright alliance. As that would put the value of digital entertainment products and information in the form of digital data, on the same level as material goods and resources. When in fact, digital information has even less value than general forms of information (such as education, economic metrics, libraries, financial accounts, etc.).
Ironically, his statement undermines the value system and gives support to the same capitalism (when it goes to cancerous levels) that he is criticizing in the same statement. A dumb simple-minded naive child.
you don't need a formal education to play piano. But i'd rather listen to a classically trained pianist then your retarded cousin hammering out "mary had a little lamb" with great furore after being enabled too much by her close relatives.
>>61068467 While I agree with that, I refuse to acknowledge that people who fart paint at white sheets from their vaginas should be payed the same as a engineer or scientist. If we had art that actually demands skill I'd be more likely to agree.
>>61068348 that depends on what you think art is. clearly you have some be-all-end-all everything definition of art. art isn't innovation, art is expression and whether or not innovation occurs is irrelevant. how do you think sculpture started? do you think they began by making art or fashioning a tool from stone? modern art is fucking degenerate even by your definition, what scientific insights are to be gained from watching some femicunt take a shit on butcher paper while drinking her own crusty menstruation? art is a statement and a reflection of society. what you are talking about is not artistic innovation but scientific innovation. the difference between an engineer and a sculptor. the difference between an architect and a cartoonist.
Remember that one kid in high school who was awkward, slightly-hyperactive and who was 'really into art'? Remember how everyone suspected that he was a raging homosexual and made fun of him behind his back?
That kid exists at every school in the nation and there are tens of thousands of them and they all have twitter accounts, which is why you should get off twitter and tumbr and reddit if you hate hearing them.
>>61068348 In terms of philosophy, pretty much perfected it. You can't tell me that if we all followed the new idea of "don't offend me" and "everyone is equal" we would be better off. Nice try shlomo.
I can understand earlier art and how it intertwined with science in a way. Look at the statues or paintings so lifelike, impossible to do without knowing anatomy, refractions/reflections and principles like the golden ratio and how to utilize it.
Arts in the now sjw-infested schools are basically "paint a blob with your feces, menstrual blood and the ejaculate of the man who stare raped you" and everyone thinks this is the biggest achievement in arts because of its "social comment".
(I'm painting in broad strokes here huehuehue, there are some good artists left but those aren't the popular ones)
Arts used to be amazing, it was used to visualize knowledge or fantasy so that it was pleasing to the eye and mind, it could be thought-provoking or challenging in many ways if one wanted it to be so, but to do that it required something special.
Mindless obscenity and randomness is not art, but I guess thinking is a bit too hard on the frail minds of the artists of the past few generations
>>61067100 Also, people's vision on the concept of science is "people improving and prolonging life", while the vision on the concept of art is "muh conceptual art people shitting on paper".
If you compare a man who influences a lot of people with his music, video or paintings and make them feel better, with a a man who studies a pretty unknown historical figure all his life which a handful people read upon. Who is more important?
>>61068740 art is not a statement or a reflection of society, art is making something great. A feminist shitting on a piece of paper is consider art today, and does look like a reflection of society today, but it will never be and cannot be art. There is only one truth.
>>61069814 The science of art is all well and good but there's a ton of shit that's considered "art" now days that completely ignores the science. HalfFinishedDragonNextToSculptureOfManSuckingHimselfOff.jpg Hipsters that don't know shit that praise "art" that doesn't deserve praise is what causes art to get such a bad name. Well, that and the fact it's pretty worthless in general. Personally, I blame Picasso. I'm not particularly knowledgeable on art but his art could make you think anyone could be famous.
you could say the same about the millions of science graduates who go on to do nothing of importance throughout their whole entire career. only a small percentage of men will be great men.
but i do agree that a lot of people who do art as their job are degenerates. that's only because art has been perverted and destroyed. real art is the building block of humanity. its literally the bread and butter of white innovation. idea and imagination is what has separated us from the rest of the world time and time again throughout history
>>61070736 >millions of science graduates who go on to do nothing of importance throughout their whole entire career
The fuck are you on about you dumb nigger? Every STEM graduate is qualified to maintain the infrastructure of society in at least one aspect throughout their studies. Every single fucking one can repair or maintain something at the very least as a job. Because that's the minimum requirement of the education system in STEM fields. Say the same about artists you faggot, you can't. Even the shittiest STEM graduate will contribute more to society on a tangible level than an art graduate.
>>61067100 Just in general, unless you're a traditional artist creating marble sculptures and oil paintings which will last hundreds of years, you are wasting your existence. Nobody is going to remember some fatball shitting out bloody eggs onto canvas, because feminism. Nobody is going to remember someone who took a photo of a pile of trash and blew it up. Nobody is going to remember the dude who made weird "art" videos consisting of a German man's balls flapping in the wind.
Everyone will remember Rembrandt, da Vinci, Raphael, etc, not just because they created something amazing, but they created using mediums which were known for their lasting longevity.
So 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of "art students" are a fucking waste of oxygen. But every once in a while, there will be an absolute gem who achieves immortality.
Meanwhile, 25% of all scientists are flatly useless, while the rest contribute steadily to humanity.
Being an art student is therefore like rolling thief in an MMO: You're dogshit and pointless unless you hit max-level and get that OP attack.
>>61071244 reading tables isn't engineering. Very few engineers actually do any engineering, Most are some combination of lawyer 'does this meet standard', accountant 'what will it cost' and manager 'how long will it take".
>>61069789 I challenge these chucklefucks to find a single human being, no matter how ignorant with regards to all things art, who if employed as a janitor would mistake the Mona Lisa or a Van Gogh painting for trash and throw it away.
The cool thing about (real) art is that anyone, from lifetime art critic to complete ignoramus, can look at it and see that it is, in fact, art. Garbage is not art. Garbage is garbage.
>>61071351 >yeah dude all those dick size and gender disphoria study's that get churned out by every fresh science grad really improved our day to day life
It's not my problem your shitty country mixes science and liberal arts into the same fucking university, and doesn't have them separated because >muh field based cultural diversity must be mixed in a pot to produce an enriched educational environment
Most parts of the world segregate educational fields properly. Besides, women and faggots can't contend with poo in the loo male Indians for the same affirmative action spots, because Indians and Chinks tend to have disproportionate male to female ratios where males abandon the hope of relationships in return for studying and working 18 hours a fucking day. The irony of the situation that this makes men still prevail in the end, except they can't criticize the ethnicity of this gender in this situation else "muh racism".
>>61067253 >it's not as if one has any other choice but to participate in capitalist society >mfw >>61067264 My guess is the heavy implications that """""artist""""" should receive pay for anything they do through government subsidization muh living wage and such.
If you actually make really good art in a capitalist system you will become very wealthy. If you don't tough tits you're a shitty artist and the fact that no one wants to buy your shit shows as such.
This is why you don't give out trophies to everyone
>>61067643 This is correct Artistic studies outside of a bullshit normal bfa require extensive knowledge in computer technologies recently or mathematics especially, the early masters were on average all brilliant mathematicians. t. Animation major
the truth is both science and art have been perverted to near death. the system has actively pushed mediocrity on the people
to the point that scientists dont even seek truth anymore. we live in a world where people walk around pretending that racial groups have no differences and its all backed by scientists. artists draw a picture of a 2d penis and get knighted and given a 2 month exhibit in the sydney museum of art
read your history. this shit were living in is garbage. no one from this generation will be great the way things are going. people don't even understand the purposes of art and science anymore
>>61070362 Bang on. He accelerated a thing called post modernism which basically means a new Era of art work. Now artists are trying to find the next big thing to circlejerk so they become relevant to the community.
>>61071978 Even a fucking gypsy here can do more than an art student. At least they can fix up a broken car and create mutant vehicles from various car parts in junkyards. They can naturally do car repair. You know you have it bad when even fucking gypsies can contribute more to society than art students.
>>61068072 women making art. You know how hard women had to fight to get to make some art peaces, they had to pactise and study the human anatomy twice as hard and dedicate their life for it and now some biches make trash and call it art. fuck this shit.
>>61071757 >If you actually make really good art in a capitalist system you will become very wealthy. If you don't tough tits you're a shitty artist and the fact that no one wants to buy your shit shows as such. You don't even need to be that good, just convince enough people to support your art. Just look at pathenon to see shitty comics makers earn a livable wage. Difference between them and these faggots? These actually work, creating content and pandering to certain people. I mean, fuck, it has literally never been easier to make a living doing art and entertainment than today and these faggots are still complaining.
>>61072254 No dear, I'm not a web dev. Can't stand any kind of markup syntax, not to mention debugging for 15 different browsers including IE... I work in a small ~15 man company, we build stuff per order, whatever the user spec is. There's ocassional web stuff in there, but we've got 2 guys who do that, my job is backend. Most of the work are business management systems - database for employee data, finances etc + some kind of an interface, either desktop or web based
>>61072438 >you're just writing code You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. The most important part of my job is designing a good system in the first place, and we often spend more time on that + documentation, testing, maintenance etc then we do actually writing code, and even then you're still very actively "desinging" algorithms and optimizing stuff. This "codemonkey" thing you're implying simply doesn't exist in the current industry anymore. It did some 20 years ago..
I would even agree with his original statement if modern art wasn't degenerate. Before (((THE JEWS))) art was the discipline of trith and beauty. In the renassaince the best artists were also architects/engineers types. Modern art is essentially a money making scheme for jews.
>>61067100 People don't understand the arts has always been dependant on the so called rich elites and they always will. Shit you 70 years of soviet control on Russia you can't name a single artist that regime produced with out googling it. Capitalism creates artists.
as a guy doing env art for games: don't think we are all like those fucking idiots. many people call themselves artists just for the label. they have no skills or talent whatsoever. they just try to force their agenda onto people. making AAA quality art is incredibly hard and time consuming, it's a lifestyle not just a job. if any 'artist' spends half their time spouting political nonsense on his/her twitter then you know they're shit artists.
the professional artists that i know that are really good at what they do are all very non-political, in fact it angers them when you try to bring up politics in an unrelated discussion.
>>61073176 Im designing systems with the focus on optimization, readability, reusability and extendability. Theres nothing in there that holds any kind of social/political message, nor is it an expression of my views. Its not art.
>>61073248 Hmmm. Youre kinda right. Theres stilli some stuff in there that needs some thought and expertise but the majority is mindless writing, yeah.
The difference is if you do an Arts degree you actually have to be really good at it and have some drive. It's not a job on a platter like a STEM degree is, you have to work for it.
Got my Bachelor's degree. Took a year off school to work and save money for a Master's. In that time I led a school trip educational panel for kids on Dublin Cathedral because I'd written my dissertation on Irish church architecture and did some work experience in the National Museum of Ireland.
After I completed my Master's I was able to walk back into the Museum as a tour guide, helped the head of medieval studies out with a research project, and by next year I'm going to be looking at a managerial position paying 60 grand a year.
It's hard, sure, but you get out what you put in. It's easy to have a career in the Humanities if you work for it.
>>61067100 >I'm le done, I'm so le fucking done, le wow, just le fucking wow, am I right tumblr? How fucking dare anyone express an opinion somewhere then have the FUCKING AUDACITY to make me read it then make a fucking thread about it Just Don't Look
>>61067100 the thing is: an arts-based career can yield the same or even more money than a science-based one.
Modern pop music is not my cup of tea, and a lot of stuff that looks like a 5-year-old drew is considered modern art.
But I have to face facts: Justin Bieber made millions, and is gonna make more millions.
Nobody forced these people into their careers.
What this faggot is complaining about is his lack of talent and ambition.
If he worked hard and had anything to show for his art career he could make money.
But he didn't want to work hard. That's why he choose an arts career. Because he thought having a guitar and playing wonderwall is enough to succeed in the world.
Now that I think about it there are so many jobs - especially in the US - that are suited for these creative types. Just think about all US tv shows that are on the market. They all need writers, artists and what not.
But he didn't WANT to work a creative job - because it's hard. He just wanted to party for 4 years.
>>61067100 Im a doctor of dental medicine. Have responsibility and if any surgery goes wrong im fucked and directly responsible. There is no one to blaim one. Have to always be very focused on work, treatments should be fast, adequate and of high quality. Have to go to conferences few times a years to continute to follow the scientific development taking place in order not to fall behind. New techniques, now medicies, new concepts, and implement this in daily clinical practice. We are taking thousnads of dollars a year for all this "keeping up to date".
Hey here is a leftist liberal girl 21 years old who just finish a 18 month course in "art" and is trowing paint at some piece of paper, with no education or qualification, and she gets paid by government to do it. Hey I guess we are on the same level right? Fuck em
>>61070736 >you have to have your name on a formula and/or be famous to have contributed meaningfully to science
why are people so focused on science as a collection of facts? we stand on the shoulders of giants, the great breakthroughs are important, but so is all the research done decades before hand that made the breakthrough possible. People treat science like the process of digging a tunnel, only caring about the miner whose pick broke through to the light and ignoring the hundreds that dug the rest of the way for them.
>>61077206 except when it obviously fucking is. >Mona Lisa was never made World is basically the same >penicillin was never discovered No, wait you are right, wouldn't make a fucking difference. Besides, I'm pretty sure all the old artists had other jobs that actually contributed something.
Both Science-based "careers" and Arts-based "careers" are equally retarded concepts. Fundamentally, Science and Art are both creative processes (yes, you need to be creative to come up with something as genius as general relativity for example) and the idea that you can have creativity to order does not make sense. Creativity comes when you are deeply inspired and you work towards something, money or not.
The arts world is polluted with degenerate shite right now. But so is the world of science; crack open any journal that isn't Nature and you'll see such incompetent shit, you wonder how it got published. They both suffer from the same problem, people constantly need to be churning out work in order to get paid. I say let people only get creative when there is something worth creating.
>>61071757 >If you actually make really good art in a capitalist system you will become very wealthy Wrong, this only works if you make art that is easily digestable, really accessable and targeted towards the average consumer. Just because something is popular does not mean that it is good. There are tons of amazing artists who could never live off their craft, simply because their art does not fall into those categories.
>>61080399 no one thing is more important than another. that's sort of how a civilization works. it's all interconnected. what's the point curing disease, exploring space and creating a renewable energy source if in our off time we can't go appreciate some art or catch a movie? what's the fucking point of anything if we can't enjoy ourselves? if we didn't develop penicillin and vaccines we would all be dead sure, but what life is worth living without entertainment and pastimes?
>>61078156 this shit is what truly fucked this generation, the insulting thought that copper can pass as gold, that the immigrants that built our countries are worth the same as the illegal rapists and thieves that daily cross our borders
>>61067305 it's kind of hard to imagine a world without music.
i suppose a good comparison might be, would you rather live in the woods with a non stop stream of music or would you rather live a much longer life, where most of the sounds you hear are unpleasant? are we assuming no artistic speech, poetry, or literature?
but it's not like any of the music i listen to came from an art school anyway.
in my life music has been tied with pleasure quite alot. but you could thank science for most of the mediums in which i enjoy my music in the first place.
First of all, I am an animation major, and I've been animating since middle school. That's a real job. We help do advertising for businesses, we work in the film industry (90% of that star wars movie was animated), we make animations for medical demonstrations that get used in med schools and hospitals, NASA always needs us, and we work at least 50 hours a week. The average wage in the US for animators is $60,000. I'm also skilled in the fine arts. Plus, I love animating more than I love jacking off. I'm not complaining at all. Trust me, if you hear an artist complain that's because they're shitty at fine arts. if they think that poorly scribbling a drawn vagina with red paint on the face of their garage door is worthy of fame and praise for their aptitude, they're not an artist, they're a narcissist.
>>61067100 good thing we have science so that we can eat genetically modified food that gives us cancer, eat out of plastic containers that give us cancer, use aerosol sprays that give us cancer, eat food with fillers, eat food loaded with antibiotics and estrogens, drive cars that make us fat and lethargic, work in factories that dehumanize us, work desk jobs that make us depressed, and then take a magic pill antidepressant at the end of the day that chemically castrates us and attempts to numb us completely to our "technological utopia." thanks science!!!!
>>61082369 I can whip a 3D printer that can whip up one of those. And i can improve the model via 3D modeling program. Come at me nigga. YEEEEE BITCHES, SCIENCE REPLACING ARTISTS. GO GET JOBLESS MOTHAFUCKAS.
I'm in the final year of my STEM degree and just started my honours project.
I like to draw. I could have become an art student but instead I decided to pursue it as a hobby since the work and income tends to be irregular unless you're willing to suck dick for it in most cases. Also, a lot of """artists""" I've come across have been conceited, whiny obnoxious faggots and drama queens.
>>61083073 way to go to an extreme, dipshit. at least art isn't polluting the world and destroying it. thanks to science, the Yellow River and Yangtze are polluted cesspools. art is neutral. science is destroying as much as it embellishes. deal with it, fag.
>>61083158 his art wasn't about the fundamentals. it was abstract. if you are actually skilled in the fundamentals you can work in concept art AND illustration. the video game industry now rakes in 3x as much as Hollywood.
Hey /pol/ how come as a STEM grad student I have to:
>know my particular field of study (or more often than note know aspects of multi fields and take a multi-disciplinary approach) >Know how to write papers as this is how I present my research to scientific journals >know how to construct concise and digestible presentations using various graphic design/scripts to showcase my results in figures/tables >know how to use various statistical analyses and in some cases calculus and more advanced modelling (depending on my research)
Meanwhile arts/social science majors need to know only 1-2 of those things.
My friend and I both went to the same University but he went for English, I went for Bio.
>He read books and wrote papers >I read books and wrote papers >I learned how to handle lab equipment/chemicals (both in lab and in the field) >learned how to use R and other stats programs
anyways..I think it was black science man who said something like "you go to Art parties, and people will say "oh you know, I was never any good with math"" but in a room full of scientists know one says "well, I was never very good at reading"
Depends what you mean by "big." Yes, most scientists won't get publications in Science or Nature, but getting anything published is always handy to other people researching similar things. The community builds on itself.
>>61067531 Holy shit, this art is amazing. Biplanes and lasers.
The contrast of the dreams of the future combined with the romanticism of the past. The contrast of destruction of the burning city below and the blue sky above. Some queer art style I am sure someone who actually knew art would understand.
Even if they contribute something minuscule to a bigger project, conduct research, and/or collaborate with an organization that creates or realizes something big, you have already achieved more for the advancement of mankind than any artist no matter how talented.
I am a Systems Analyst monkey who makes good money but doing what I do because I am essentially not smart enough to do more and even I facilitate scientific innovation at a research university due to facilitating equipment and saving time when things go badly so that that the researchers can get back to their work.
My retarded self contributes more than anyone in the arts and I spend over half my work week shit posting on a Taiwanese animu board.
>>61067100 I see this attitude among artists who aren't successful. They can't conceive that they are not producing work that people want to buy. Rather than try to change what they do to satisfy the market they just get resentful and assume society is full of morons who "just don't get it."
>>61086092 The statistics that the "77ct for every dollar" myth came from was interpreted terribly. You have to realize that women earn less statistically because they tend to go into fields that pay less (Men often go into STEM, women often go into Social Sciences or Humanities). Even if a women decides to go into a STEM-field, let's say engineering, they tend to go into fields that pay less; men often go into Aircraft Engineering (or something similar), while women tend to go into fields like Enviomental Engineering.
Women have the opportunity to earn as much as men, they simply choose not to.
>Contributing nothing to the advancement of society >Creating shit art when you have no talent or vision because you have wealthy parents that probably did work hard so you can live at home and fail at a career until you are 35 >You are an artist because you don't want to get a real job that actually builds character and helps others and would rather be vain think you are cool and unique, even though you look and act exactly like everyone else to be "trendy" >Not realizing science takes complicated things and simplifies them and tries to include everyone, while art complicates simple things like common sense and alienates people
>you wouldn't be able to make this shitty argument without science, you wouldn't have plumbing or clean, running water without science, you wouldn't be sleeping indoors without science. None of those statements is true if you replace science with art.
>>61087303 No, you make a middle-class income because you do not make Art for Art's sake. You produce a commodity to be bought. Nothing wrong with that, it's just not "Art" in that sense. As in "depicts values", "makes statements about the human condition" ect
>>61067837 there are only a handful of "musicians" making that much money though. As a classical musician it's pretty painful to see. I'm easily the most talented musician in the room at any given time but I don't compare to the principal horn player of New York Phil. This man is prolific and he makes maybe 90k
>>61071079 i know a number of biologists who fuck of into a microscope everyday doing "research" on some specific bacteria that might help slow the damage to some worm that lives in one reef outside of New Guinea or whatever. Many scientists waste their time discovering nothing. My one friend spend two entire summers collecting samples of air from a prairie in Florida. Tell me again how useful everyone in STEM is...
I have a bachelor degree in engineering. So let me tell you guys some facts. There is not enough jobs for everyone because they now use robots, software to perform tasks that humans used to do. Now there will soon be no need for drivers and even more people will loose their jobs. I dont know what will happen, but there is definetly not more than half of the work force that is needed. This is why there is so many useless jobs in public sector. Maybe art is as a good thing. There is not need for everyone, but we need to feed everyone for our own protection.
>>61067100 Exceptionally outstanding artists get sponsors and patrons...
legislating government support for anyone who desires to call themselves an "artist" is an absurdity..
Hopefully we're not this stupid to give a living to any faggot who wants to sit around a sulk all day scribbling 'poetry' or doodling..
again when your art reaches the level of excellence that it moves the ineffable sense of those so inclined you will succeed.. Until then you're not going to make it and should find yourself a regular job.
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