Why do people that watch anime always swing to the far-right. What's are they teaching these weebs?!
Not true. Damm near every blue hair watches anime.Now, if you watch anything past entry level shit then you go far right. That bit's a mystery.
Anime is basically either 'pure decent girls being pure and decent' or 'space/ fantasy/ real/ imagined Japan stronk' nationalist propaganda.
Or if you watched Gate, it's both.
So it's no wonder that it attracts right leaning people. What else is there to watch if you absolutely have to waste your time in front of a TV. Even iZombie, the show that spawned a bunch of ebin Aryan zombie memes now has beastiality in it.
What about shows that aren't about either of those things?
anime viewers prefer to watch their own entertainment. You would be hard-pressed to find an anime viewer that regularly watches Jewish Liberal "popular" western Tv shows/movies. Less brainwashing leads to a more right winged outlook
Muh family values.
Muh miracles of the universe.
It's because they draw anime females with noce bodies and tits. Fembeasts are worried that an eastern persons artistic representation of women will sway what western men are looking for. The hambeasts want people to believe that beauty is on the inside.
Maybe it's due to female representation in anime?
Why do people watch moe instead of sitcoms like normal goys? Because western media always has some undertones about social issues, deals with current political topics and is always on the 'progressive' side. If you watch slice of life, you do so because anime is unpolitical, or it references japanese topics which one doesn't understand.
Action shows on the other hand are essentially the same as western stuff, hence entry-level watchers are bluepilled nu-males who want crazzy xD characters.
I remember when I was 16 watching black lagoon gave me motivation to join the army because guns are cool as fuck. Was a great decision as I got military skills, now own a rifle and got my car license done.
Now years of slacking off later one punch man has motivated me to work out again and ive been at it for months now getting sick gains.
Anime is truly wonderful.
so that's why Estonias most watched porn is hentai
TRUMP/CRUZ WILL MAKE ANIME REAL AGAIN
Nope our girls are cute
Keep your SJW skank out of this thread.
u sure ?
Its because they see these dyed-hair tumblr whale plebs encroaching upon their favored hobby, so they naturally take opposing viewpoints to them on anything and everything out of spite, including politics
Depends on the type
Liberals tend to like shonen because it depicts a world where you become friends with your defeated enemies, your team comprises a multicultural varied cast of types and nobody ever ages in a fantasy world despite years on the road.
Conservatives tend to watch moeshit (cute conservative girls doing cute things), seinen (adults dealing with the harsh realities of the real world), ecchishit (boobs, explosions and fanservice, the same way cons love action films), and some slightly deeper stuff like Welcome to the NHK.
I didn't say he was, my question mark friend.
I've decided I wanna check out one of those "cute girls doing cute things" animes, but only one. Is there a definite, accessible go-to "allrounder"? Something like cowboy bebop for regular anime. Or just the best one. Also, what is" moe"? Is that cute girls doing cute things?
I just want to watch girls that aren't raging whores and naturally this only occurs in 2d.
Most weebshits are low test effeminate beta male faggots feminists
Pure waifus in moe, comradery, taking responsibility, manliness, and being a cool dude in shounen. Sounds about right. Though the way weebshit affects you depends on what kind of person you already are.
K-On is a good one to start with. I haven't watched much slice of life anime in recent years.
The Fine Young Capitalists is a leftist organization.
How to know if a weeb of blue pilled or Red Pilled
Blue Pilled :
1) Hates Lolis and Moe
2) Wants Harem MC To be Chads
3) Enjoys Shounenshit
4) Wants more Anime that is aimed at Western Viewers
5) Complains about Japanese Values in Anime
6) Wants Stronk Women rather than Feminine women
>K-on is shit tier.
That's a nice wrong opinion you have there.
Only shounenshit i view is One Piece but the rest is true.
Is One Piece redpilled?
No. Anime is 95% of the time:
>beta loser hero
>surrounded by barely functional overly emotional women with child-like personalities(hur hur, just like real life, derp)
>loser somehow sleeps with "pure waifus" so that anime dorks think they can get 10/10 hotties just by being shy
>I just want to protect that smile desu :x
Anime encourages faggotry. While you do get some extreme weebs sharing some right wing sensibilities, they're rare. Most people on /a/ and /v/ are leftist scum. The ONLY thing they have in common with /pol/ or right wing people is that they hate SJWs for infringing upon their right to be pathetic betas that jerk off all day to unrealistic hyperactive puppies that are anime girls. They have nothing else in common. Anime fans are degenerate in the extreme and have all sorts of retarded fetishes and just want to be sick fucks.
So no, anime is not redpilled or far right or anything of the sort. It just shares 1 common interest with the right(freedom to depict women sexually), and that's it.
There's tons of nazi account, alt-right account or other edgy shit with anime avatar on twitter. i never understood why
>Hates Lolis and Moe
Uh, no. Loli and moe is not red-pilled. It's fantasyland horse shit for betas that find real women too scary to approach. How the fuck would this be anything but blue-pill? It encourages weak faggots to stay weak faggots that just jerk off to cartoons.
I hate loli and moe, and you should too.
>Wants Harem MC To be Chads
Not that I care about this to begin with, but as opposed to what? Beta wispy faggots?
>Wants Stronk Women rather than Feminine women
I'd settle for "women that aren't indistinguishable from hyperactive puppies". I don't care about strong women in media, but anime takes tokenism to the extreme. Just slap a personality type on her and make her act like she's fucking retarded. Either by being unrealistically shy and "cute"(aka retarded) or by having her be outgoing but for some reason a tsundere shy retard when it comes to the beta fag protagonist.
>Most people on /a/ and /v/ are leftist scum
Wrong most /a/nons are pretty conservatives like >>61064212
I don't know about /v/ because haven't been in that shithole for years.
>pathetic betas that jerk off all day to unrealistic hyperactive puppies that are anime girls
>Anime fans are degenerate in the extreme and have all sorts of retarded fetishes and just want to be sick fucks
Those are true, but it's ok because it's 2d therefore we are more pure and innocent than people who jerk off to the most vanilla 3d porn.
>She was made to combat SJWs numb nuts. Literally /v/s daughter.
Fucking barf. She is a tumblr creation through and through. You can say that it's from /v/, but she is the cringiest shit that board has produced(and that's saying a lot).
You also have to keep in mind that you pack of retards donated to feminists under edgy mcfaggerton's image, so I don't buy the "to combat SJW" bullshit.
>Wrong most /a/nons are pretty conservatives
No, they aren't. Again, outside of hating SJWs for going after sexy women/girls, /a/ is not conservative on any other stance. None. They have far more in common with the left than the right. /v/ is the same.
>beta loser hero
>surrounded by barely functional overly emotional women with child-like personalities(hur hur, just like real life, derp)
There was a time when anime was good.
Thanks, I'll check them out.
I know it's a /a/, but this seems like a good time/place to ask so: Is there another slice-of-life anime like Great Teacher Onizuka? I watched that one a couple of years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. Apart from the characters and general comfyness I liked the drawing style. Not full on "moe", but also neither this bleak, wannabe realistic look of all those dystopian sci-fi animes, nor the overly stylized look with the spiked hair etc.
Purity is one of the most trasured values on /a/, most girls are expected to be virgins and any implication of the opposite will cause a lot of /a/nons to lose their shit.
Why do you think so many threads start with "x is a slut" or "how many dicks did x have to suck to get where she is" etc. as bait.
It is also generally seen as important that the girls dress modestly and not engage much with the opposite sex.
So yes /a/ is conservative in many aspects.
The main difference is Japanese authors who write well set out to write a good character who is a woman. Western writers often set out to write a woman who is strong.
So Japan gets characters like the female half of the cast of 7 Seeds (35 people leave cryostasis long after a disaster destroyed humanity) who are all varied and fantastically written women, with differing strengths and personalities.
Meanwhile the west gets shit like capecomics with literal feminist rant wall of texts during fight scenes.
The latter is better according to SJWs.
Mad Bull is some top shelf tier reading material.
I know both types, and its 100% spot on.
Sora no Woto (/k/moe)
This. Toonamitards and casuals are the people get assblasted by moe and fanservice. They're also the same people that cheer on the SJW writers at places like ANN and Kotaku. Anime casuals are the useful idiots of SJWs.
>thinking that has to do with conservatism
>not understanding that it has to do with them being unable to handle being compared to another man
They treasure virginity and purity because they're losers, not because they're conservative. It's not that they genuinely value loyalty as a trait or value purity for the sake of raising a strong family unit or any other reason a conservative would value purity. They just want cute shy waifus to themselves because they can't compete with other men to obtain girls, and if she's a virgin then she hasn't been exposed to other, better men with bigger dicks.
That's really all it boils down to. Try again.
>That bit's a mystery.
>Wholesome family values, woman and men committing to gender norms. A peaceful society and a homogeneous society if anime is peaceful.
It's not a mystery anon.
>some anime has great female characters that actually aren't useless
>The main difference is Japanese authors who write well set out to write a good character who is a woman.
By some anime, you mean maybe 1 in every 10,000? The female characters in anime are copy pasted paper thin fuckdolls. Don't even lie.
And by "set out to write a good character who is a woman", you mean they pick her personality from one of the 30 tropes specifically designed to appeal to different fetishes and possibly mix and match a few cookie cutter personalities to make a fuckdoll.
They hate it because they're basically glorified masturbatory aids, and "great female characters" are virtually non-existent. Not that anime has good male characters most of the time either.
Stop watching harems faggot. It's shit tier anime.
7 seeds is a good manga though
Its only bad if you want to Turn from one extreme to the opposite extreme
Wanting a guy who is somewhere in the middle aka not a Chad who pumps and Dump and neither a Beta who can't speak to girls is the way to go
Then take your uninformed opinions and blow them out your ass.
And what, exactly, isn't shit-tier anime? Because as far as I can tell, it's like once every 5 years, precisely 1 anime is made that isn't full of guffawing hiccuping cute girls or edgy teen boys with their 10,000 year old demon father that can do the sukiyuki beam attack bullshit.
The truth is that anime writing is fucking awful, and if you continue to enjoy it past the age of 20 beyond watching some rare film, you're probably a low-tier faggot.
He likely doesn't. Assmad casuals that only watch anime on cable always pretend to be experts. They're also mad as fuck at everyone else that watches more than that so they spew insults out of anger. Kinda like libshits.
>rabid anime fans are convinced that great anime is made all the time
I'm fucking shocked. Actually, the only thing I find shocking is that this board has so many anime loving faggots.
Evil is bad, bro. Don't make me slap you silly.
Enough good shit has been made where you can watch something good once a month for years.
>precisely 1 anime is made that isn't full of guffawing hiccuping cute girls or edgy teen boys with their 10,000 year old demon father
>every five years
You need to get out.
Found the assmad retard from /v/.
I don't need to be an anime "expert" to realize that it's fucking shit and the writing sucks. Why the fuck would I even watch boatloads of it if it's ass? I never claimed to be some expert. I do not need to watch 1,000 anime to realize the vast majority of it is garbage.
While I'm sure there is some rare anime that goes beyond hiccuping gasping protagonists and obvious plot twists and faggy crying little girls, it's rare enough where I don't care for the medium.
Anime is one of the last uncucked forms of media. It's becoming increasingly cucked over time, however.
Not so much cucked as oversaturated with battle harem/harem ecchi bullshit with beta protagonist.
Still plenty of good manga though, /a/ had a recent dump of Helck and I HIGHLY recommend it.
>Nostalgiafag watched a handful of shows
>Hasn't watched anime in years
>Has strong opinions anyway and claims to be an authority on the subject
You fags are so predictable it's boring.
>Why do people that watch anime always swing to the far-right.
Real nerds are betas and the #betauprising will be a right-wing uprising against feminism. Nerds watch anime.
But due to "nerd culture" it's not only bitter male nerds who watch anime anymore.
Almost every tumblrina watches anime. Almost every tranny has anime-cyberpunk fantasies about a future in which they are genderless anime being wearing tech implants.
>people that watch anime always swing to the far-right
If you think shitty Japanese cartoons are a "conservative" thing, YOU'RE PRETTY FUCKIN RETARDED. Most people who watch and even create anime are lib as fuck.
>Because I want to know if you actually watch good anime or you're just parroting shit.
So your just being annoying for some kind of internet ego boost, good to know
Boko no Fuck yourself
The thing is that 99% of everything is indeed crud.
You get rare gems often, but they're still that, rare gems.
This has nothing to do with ego. It has all to do with acknowledging that the vast majority of anime is utter fucking crap with the most atrocious writing you could concieve, same goes for western movies and music and TV and anything artistic.
>replacing vivs sneaky 2^3chan reference with a fucking generic-arse flower
They're not going to name one for you, because that would require them to actually make a specific argument and commit to what they consider a good anime. And they know the second they name one, it will get torn to shreds for the shit that it is.
There are apparently so many good anime, but naming just one is too much of a task.
Instead, they will vaguely refer you to lists and just say "fuk u dude" in different ways to try to save face. Typical anime fag stuff.
>nerds are right-wing
Maybe in Muslim Germany, but not in America. In America the overwhelming amount of scientists and STEM people are moderate libs. Those are actual Nerds. They vote democrat or independent.
Although, if you're using "Nerds" to just mean semi-educated NEETs or dumbshits pretending to be smart (aka most of /pol/), then maybe you have a point. Those basement dweller are usually right-wing.
inb4 evil science conspiracy!
inb4 evil academia and industry conspiracy!
inb4 I'm just as smart as a real scientists!
I don't watch annie may, but you heard of Utawarerumono?
Save the walls of text. You're screaming "stop liking what I don't like" repeatedly.
What I'll never understand is why disenfranchised casuals are usually emotionally invested into every conversation about anime on every corner of the internet. You're going out of your way to tell the world you've "moved on", yet you still carry some odd grudge. It reminds me of this attention whore at work that keeps telling everyone she broke up with her boyfriend, but she still can't shut the fuck up about him months later.
>there will never be a 40K anime
>no qt Ordo Xenos Inquisitor purging aliens
That's the realm of hentai and wish fulfillment light novels. The anime characters that aren't total betas are often Mary Sues, but at least fun. Seinen that the author actually tries to write decently not included of course.
Ok dude come fucking on, I actually would have accepted you saying Steins;Gate was bad, but you can not possibly like Steins Gate and not love Tatami Galaxy
That's a good entry based anime. Gave me a Nazi fetish during an impressionable time desu senpai
Read the manga some years ago, maybe one day will watch the anime
The funny thing is that major was actually the good guy, he was actually trying to fuck up the monster Alucard, and pushing humanity technology further.
It is shown in a flashback that Major could have become a monster like Alucard, but he choose humanity instead.
Major is still the one of the best shounen antagonists.
The problem isnt beta protaganist, the problem is they are getting NTRed
Anime is utter fucking cancer. Stop using some gay excuses about "muh entry level". Only acceptable reason to watch anime is being underage and watch shit like One Piece of Naruto same way we used to watch DB 20 years ago. If you turn 18 and still watch anime you're an absolute faggot with no chance of ever getting laid or doing something with your life.
Oh, I know, the opposition between the choices of Alucard and the Major gives it a depth wasted on most people.
The Major definitely cements himself as a hero in the last episode. Too bad the author was too attached to Alucard and nearly ruined the themes of the show with the epilogue.
Those people are typically weaboos for social reasons. They do it just to fit in with their pals.
I am a hardcore anime faggot, but I never talk about it unless it is someone I know who also likes anime, and I never tell people that I like it.
Also, you live in Cuckland, so you're more prone to liberal fags anyway.
You sound like that retarded shitskin from philipines who after checking that the quote from Uro litterly thinking that:BAW LIFE IS SO SAD AND PEOPLE WHO DONT THINK SO ARE BAAD! BAAWW! is a good writer.
Or worse, that madoka with its emo and how negative emotions teenage girls has is somehow interesting. That was the most hilarious part.
Regardless of your political ideology, if you watch anime you need to kill yourself.
Alucard cannot be killed because he represent the immanent corruption/savagery of humanity.
Harnessing him is the only choice.
The choice of the major was logical, only supreme force could defeat it, whatever the cost. Even then, he could only be hindered for a small time.
Same as the left.
Most NTR is retarded anyways and along the lines of
>Hey, I'm going to blackmail or use some magic bullshit to make you submit !
>NO WILL NEVER DO THAT
>*10 seconds later*
>KIMOCHII MOTTO MOTTO FUCK MY MARRIAGE AND MY CHILDREN
>Also, you live in Cuckland, so you're more prone to liberal fags anyway
Honestly i think the average swede is generally more redpilled than the average American. Atleast among youths. the massinvasion woke many people here.
>Abdul calling other people shitskin
For reference, it's Urobochi, the Butcher or Urobutcher. Random caps and Uro are probably something from Reddit because you'd never see it on /a/.
I want to pure muslims from atop a mighty mecha while I listen to touhou.
Don't mistake dudeweed lmao who among other thing watches animeS, with anime enthusiast purist who desire the perfect homogenous countries this media dream of.
Here, this may be of use to you.
If you want something more in depth that's a massive fucking flowchart even bigger than that, I've got you covered for that too. Just wish either image was small enough to post on this board.
They don't, you think weebs here have a clue about actual politics? Complaining about SJW's doesn't make you right-wing. They also live low stress, sedentary and labour deficient lives, and in any true right leaning society, would be picked out as week. It should be also noted that avidly watching Japanese cartoons and having a "waifu" makes you a race traitor and a paedophile.
For reference its uro you shitskin, but if you got evidence that being EMO is fine then feel free to do so mr BAAAW supporter.
So the shitskin is calling others shitskin is hilarious.
Not exactly "cute girls doing cute things," but Great Teacher Onizuka is a slice of life anime and actually teaches some pretty great lessons while remaining hilarious.
Here's a very apt review:
>"Jason Thompson refers to the series as "Shameless, frequently sexist and totally hilarious". He adds "The rule of the manga is that every time Onizuka does something incredibly cool and heartwarming, he must immediately do something unbelievably retarded". He praises the series for staying fresh through imagery, detailed art and pop culture dialogue even though the formula repeats itself. Lastly he states that it "approaches true social satire." He gave the series four stars out of four."
Only when they're not mainstream/entry-level normies with M-Muh shingeki/SOA/flavoroftheseason etc etc.
Otherwise they're just as liberal as everyone else.
you definately mad cuck
Cuck getting mad? go suck off Uro shitskin, there are evidence of whites in sweden rising up thats right wing, you are just a leftist shitskin who think that BAW MADOKA BEING SAD ABOUT EMOTIONS MAKES IT INTERESTING AND A GOOD ANIME.
There is nothing good about the anime, and since no argument about why its good has been given, then they even admit it shit and just a bit upset^^
Cute girls doing cute battle in a Leman Russ would be fine too I think.
On a side note, I'm looking through my 40k folder and a full quarter of the pictures are grimcute anime.
Mondaijitachi, Trinity Seven, Shinmai Maou, and Hagure yuusha are fun, though I have shit taste and three are bad harems at the core. They also don't outright fuck anyone because anime. Kaze no Stigma has fun protagonist. All this use of the word fun makes it feel like I'm buzzwording.
Just watch Girls und Panzer, it's kinda the same thing.
"The emporah protects"
>our wifu's anon he must
Naruto is a anime about strong nations struggling to compete, until they have to work together to stop several consecutive attempts at world domination by ultra-globalists.
Naruto is the most redpilled anime of our time, the german OP is the voice of a generation.
Calm down now shitskin, you can be white in your other life so you dont have to suck off jamaal and let us white swedes fuck your girl since non half breed whites that are pro white are the only attractive men out there
Anime often portrays societies, places, and people that are more idealistic and noble than the real world. Men are braver and have higher aspirations. Women are more virtuous and beautiful.
Spending so much time in fantasy words leads anime fans to get very, very upset and angry at how low standards of EVERYTHING are in the real world.
The far right reveres the aristocratic principle and despises weakness and failure. It's the natural political home for those that resent the modern world's comfort with mediocrity and who desire its total overturning and replacement with something better, or at least aspirations towards something better.
That's my theory, anyway.
they dont, its just that we have lots of degenerate weebs here due to the general 4chins audience
I see that Jamal thing really hurt your feelings. Would you like a cookie? shitskin? but if you got evidence you are white show it.
Madoka is also still shit as you are emo.
Why would anyone like an anime where the directors name is Uro and literally think life is so horrible living? BAAW
Meh I don't mind that. Why shouldn't the Japs be allowed to have their very own, very weird nationalist propaganda - we Austrians sure as fuck don't have any of that. I even enjoyed Mahouka. It's just that one part that kinda got me.
I mean goddamn fucking Bunnygirls.
KEK. What your typing doesn't even make sense anymore.
I can only imagine your seething rage as you froth at your mouth and pound on your keyboard, shaking uncontrollably.
If you think it would help, you can try and curse em with your native tongue. At this point, I could probably understand that as much as this.
I'm pretty much in the middle here. I watch some anime, but usually only the major/high quality stuff (I do find some obscure content that I end up loving sometimes, though). I don't get obsessed with it, and the only piece of merchandise I've bought is a small Princess Mononoke poster.
Politically, I generally prefer to live and let live and refrain from judging where possible, so I don't fall in line with the "GAS THE KIKES" rhetoric here. Instead I come to /pol/ because in the mainstream it's apparently forbidden to acknowledge important differences between races and cultures, or to suggest that perhaps something should be done about the refugee/migrant rape gangs in Germany, or to say that Islam is not compatible with Western society... I feel like a reasonable middle ground needs to be sought but everyone seems to snap to one extreme or another.
Well i imagined that if females weren't spoiled by feminist laws and ideologies they could behave just a little bit more like the girls in those moe shows, but maybe i'm just too optimistic.
Reverse google search works fine.
It's I command you to breed, the animation
"I can't understand what my husband is saying"
It sounds like you're confusing red pill with beta autist who hates women... oh, nevermind.
You can't do that well while trying to remain a centrist.
You have a point I suppose, but I feel like society needs to resolve these things instead of swapping to the opposite extremes every so often.
To be fair, I got it as a teenager and it's been rolled up for years. I quite like it, but I don't live alone and don't want to be judged for it...
It's alright, got a few things from the first that I hadn't seen yet, and the flowchart is surprisingly useful considering where it came from. My main problem is how some things are categorized incorrectly in one or both, like how Kenichi isn't listed as being big on fanservice. Given, it's been years since I watched it, but I know for a fact the manga has a terrible case of paper-clothes-syndrome.
Listing Angel Beats! as a comedy is just fucking cruel too, anyone who listens to that will have no idea what kind of feels they're really in for.
Come on now.
It's a Choose Your Own Adventure game, or CYOA for short. They're mostly created on /tg/.
Just remembered, regarding 40k anime.
The Space Pirate Harlock animated movie is as close as we'll probably ever get to a rogue trader movie.
It was surprisingly entertaining.
Those *are* the games, mate.
Such pictures are either a standalone or a kickoff point for some Anon to narrate a story where the thread participants chose the direction in which it's going.
There is no original. These are from the mind of anonymous.
>I don't get obsessed with it, and the only piece of merchandise I've bought is a small Princess Mononoke poster.
I've got a few things myself, but I'm fairly certain I'm in the clear for weeb status. I did attend an anime con and cosplay with friends several years ago and, while I did understand what people were talking about and enjoyed the series being discussed at the time, I felt out of place. Not only that, many of the attendees and some of the guests gave me looks that said they thought I'm out of place. That's probably the best way to make sure you're not a weeb, if large groups of weaboos think you're a normie then you're in the clear.
weaboo are shitter who chose anime as their social point out of laziness.
Not even a tenth of them will watch anime in 5 year.
Meanwhile the average neo n/a/zi is a it since the furher died, 20y ago.
Uncomfortable, but a really odd sensation when you realize that no matter how retarded you might look or sound when drunk off your ass, you'd still come off as more well adjusted than everyone else in the room with you.
>Meanwhile the average neo n/a/zi is a it since the furher died, 20y ago.
>the average neo n/a/zi is a it
They're a what now?
>going to any kind of convention
What the hell did you expect?
idk m8, the alt-left blogosphere (e.g. radicals, critical theorists, feminists, "marxists", etc) are catching on to anime avatars being associated with right-wing groups. They've even written an article warning people to beware the anime avatar
anime is the ultimate redpill
Already cleansed but some keys work erratically. One cafe too many fell on it.
I still think I can salvage it. I don't junk something that can work, that's bad manner, like not finishing one's plate.
this is why the left/right distinction doesn't work for explaining politics
economically, they were far left of where the US is now
politically, they were more authoritarian than all of the West (now)
Socially, they were more conservative than progressive, but people place conservatives on the right for some reason, as though social conservatism always pairs with fiscal conservatism.
The existence of socially conservative states which practice forms of collectivism baffles people who think that social revolution (in the radical sense) is a necessary condition to form a collectivist economy. Nazism economics was somewhere in between market economics and collectivism, but reliant on war efforts to function (it would have been interesting to see what they would have done post-war)