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Why is the legitimate argument that right-wingers...
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Why is the legitimate argument that right-wingers make when they disagree with feminists on gender identity? What's wrong with being transgender, androgynous, not fitting in the gender binary etc? Gender is a social construct and there's no reason to have traditional conservative gender roles because they're arbitrary contrived and harmful to those who do not follow them.
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>>61012901

There's nothing wrong with it. You should do it. Over there. Behind closed doors. With the other faggots.
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>>61012901

I know you think that you're a special snowflake who don't need no traditions, but the fact is that you don't know better than the thousands of previous generations who pioneered them. In fact, you probably have less common sense than they do, because you have no idea what real struggle looks like.

Ya soft cunt.
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>>61013409
What does that have to do with anything I said? Traditions are merely social constructs and can be changed.
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>>61012901
It's supporting mental illness.
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>>61012901
Traditional societies have had a third-gender in many societies like feudal Japan,Thailand, India, Native America, etc. The idea of something being purely a social construct is also flawed because it ignores biology and reality, implying it is arbitrary when it is anything but not. These third-gender roles were exclusively populated by feminine men that played specific feminine-roles based on their biology. In this sense the right-wing answer is these people are NOT women but their own gender. Feminists and leftists on the other hand want us all to believe they are real, biological women regardless of the facts and context of the situation.
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>these rotten teeth
how cute
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>>61013741
OP BTFO
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There's a problem with the trans communities because they tell absolutely everyone that they're trans and they're hyper-aggressive in their approach to force everyone to accept them.

Nobody would care if men in dresses weren't trying to go into the women's toilets before going on to suing the establishment for trying to stop them.

Nobody likes them apart from the plastic surgeons that can make money off them. That's it.
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>>61013589

You aren't changing traditions, you're trying to distort them into something that they are not so that you and your ilk can justify sicknesses of the mind. There is nothing new under the Sun. Do you know why our society operated so swimmingly without genderfluid transqueers for so long? Because societies that accept such insanity tend to not last very long. Traditional roles are superior, and inversions or perversions of them are not just degenerate, they are anti-civilization.
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1. Traditional gender roles are not rooted purely in culture, and are not arbitrary. They are rooted in their basic nature in biology.

2. Most [99.99999+%] of people fall neatly into the two genders. Those that do not are mentally ill. Redefining humanity's sexual dimorphism for the sake of a madman with bad neurological wiring is as stupid as saying man is a quadraped because some kid in India was born with four legs.

3. Traditional gender roles strengthen a society, and keep the reproductive rate high.

It would be far more prudent to bring back some version of gender roles, minus any intolerable excesses, then to destroy them and somehow hope society doesn't get outcompeted [in the Darwinian sense] by stronger societies with higher rates of reproduction.
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>>61012901
>two sexes exist
>more than two genders exist
Why? Gender is derived from sexual differences. Sexual organs, the way our bodies are built. If you haven't noticed, men are larger and stronger than women. There is literally no reason to create a third gender, except to draw attention to yourself
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>>61013589
Without traditions, national identity is eroded.

We are already told that the majority of our history is shameful.

Can't you see that cultural erosion through the promotion of such behaviour, combined with factors such as mass immigration, is a primary ideal of the EU plan.
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>>61012901
Because it ignores biological reality.
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>gender is a social construct

stopped reading there
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As long as you don't shove it down my throat I honestly couldn't care less what you call yourself/claim to be. But just as you have the right to identify as whatever you want, I have the right to call it fucking stupid.
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>>61012901
>Gender is a social construct
sex is a biological construct and ignoring our biological differences is fucking retarded
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>>61014174

Xir doesn't care. Xe just wants to get xir hit of dopamine while the world burns.

Leave the willfully sick to their sickness.
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>>61013590
They aren't classified as that anymore.
>>61013741
What is the biology and reality you are speaking of? Gender roles are complete social constructs. >>61014071
Not at all.
>>61014125
Prove that it's a sickness.
>>61014131
No they aren't at all. If they were completely biological then you wouldn't have so many people going against it.
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>>61013589
He just said the generations previous experienced real struggle and through that traditions were formed

They are superior your destruction of them will be the destruction of our society
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>>61012901
The 'gender is a social construct' part.
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>>61014445
Wrong

Gays are 1% of the population trans are even less

You are quite literally by definition an anomaly deal with it
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Gender is not a social construct. Many animals have gender dimorphism and different responsibilities for those genders. Gender roles maybe, but even then there is no way to determine when or where society creates something or reflects human attributes,

Its like the chicken and the egg. Women stay at home because of society. Society makes women stay at home because they are better suited for it. They are better suited because women stay at home.
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>>61014445
I did not say they were completely biological, I said they were rooted in biology. The basic behaviors are determined by our biology.

Men are on average stronger, larger, and tougher than women. Thus, in a society where these things actually mattered, men were the ones who fought, and who did most of the work. They're also naturally more dominant and aggressive due to testosterone and their brain wiring, thus they tended to leadership positions over women.

There is not, nor has their ever been, a successful long-term society where women did the fighting, working, and leading, and men raised children.

The exact manifestations of gender roles changes with social and material conditions. For example, in a society based on raiding and pillaging, men would be told to be courageous warriors, whereas in a society based more on agriculture, being a great man would mean hard work, determination, and improvisation. But the raw basics of masculinity would stay the same.
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>>61014528
How so? The traditions they created are no longer useful and negatively affect people. Not everyone fits on the gender binary. Not all men are masculine, not all females are feminine. Feminity and masculinty are both arbitrary contrived. Gender should be free and decided by the individual. Collectivists notions are distortions and incorrect and morally injustifable.

The nuclear family doesn't have to be predominant. Functionalism has been debunked plenty of times. The instrumental/expressive roles right-wingers speak of no longer exist.
>>61014615
not an argument.
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>>61014445
I already addressed that. These third gender types were unusually effeminate males that were involved in roles like entertainment. They biologically produce more estrogen and are more androgynous, and Tradition found an adequate place for them in the hierarchy. Look up the kabuki actors that played women in feudal Japan (now "Newhalfs") and the legendary ladyboys ie Kathoey. They got it right and made them their own unique gender role, because theyre not fucking women and theyre definitely not masculine men. They are their own type, based on their unique biology, and were accorded a social role distinct from both men and women.
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>>61012901
It's simple. The answer is in the chromosomes.
XX = Female
XY = Male

This is an objective fact. Anyone who disagrees is an idiot, at best.
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>>61014445
Gender ROLES are artificial. They're based loosely on certain biological differences, but have some aspects of validity. Much of it is invalid, largely holdovers from our most archaic of times. A biological male and a biological female are not the same. Whether they should be treated as such is not within the scope of my statement.
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>>61012901

You are correct OP. Gender is a social construct, it's called society
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>>61014711
Gender is primarily socialized. Women do not have to stay at home anymore, they can go to work, like they are doing now.
>>61014855
Some of the roles are rooted in biology but that isn't an argument on why we should retain these roles as they are deemed unnecessary. Masculinity and feminity are arbitrarily defined.
>>61014864
I have no issue with what you are saying.
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>>61014445
>prove that it's a sickness

You and I both know that's a waste of time. Rabbits like you deny reality with astounding proficiency. All I have to do is stick to the model that has worked throughout human history, keep you the hell away from my kids, and not allow you into my community.

Enjoy your grass.
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>>61014858
Because, a society full of effeminate men will have a low birth rate and be weak in industry and warfare.

We will quite literally be overcome by barbarians who DO hold tightly to more rigid genderoles. The reproduction rate in Europe is already below replacement and has been for years. If we do not change, we WILL be gradually replaced, if not violently conquered, in the next century.
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>>61015050
Good so now you know that social constructs are not artificial/arbitrary but based on the actual hormonal and psychological diversity found intrasexually. Now stop trying to call trannies women/men and celebrate them for what they are.
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>>61015116
I don't deny reality. You cannot objectively prove your claims, your claims are purely emotional as well. Morality is relative.
>>61015186
Not necessarily will have a low birth rate and not all men have to reproduce.
>>61015193
There's nothing wrong with being transgendered. People can choose their own gender and society should be in submission to that.
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>>61015317
>people can choose their own gender

Okay, I choose now that I am a megalodon.
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>>61015317
>Morality is relative.

But not all morality is equal. Your morality is based on what you wish things to be, mine is based on proven trial and error.
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>>61015507
Define equality?
>>61015460
Not the same.
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>>61012901
Gender barely exists. Society's perception is that there are dicks and vaginas. Sexual dimorphism exists goodly, and there is minor variation within the brain structure between a man and a woman.

Overall, all this gender identity shit is collectivists trying to have an identity in their collectivist wetdream world, where they would be treated with preferential treatment.
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>>61015317
We do have a low birth rate.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html

Look at all the barbarous countries who kill faggots and don't even know what a trannie is, and their birthrates. The replacement rate is 2.1.

The reason we still need masculinity and the reason we still need gender roles of some form, is because Darwinism is still in effect. We have not escaped evolution, our societies will be outcompeted by more efficient ones if we do not change.
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>>61015571

How is that not the same?
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>>61015677
There are 7 billion people, we do not have a low birth rate. There is also no obligation to continue the birth rate. Humanity is not facing any form of extinction, quite the opposite.
>>61015768
Don't be so childish.
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>>61015317
No they cannot. A masculine faggot with a wig on does not a newhalf/kathoey make. Biology matters and determines these roles. To just LARP as something does not make you something. Social constructs such as democracy, law, morality, gender, identity, all have bases in Reality. If you're North Korea identifying as a Democracy you're a retarded delusional faggot. Pretending things don't exist does not mean anything, it means you are disconnected from Reality on a primal level, and therefore delusional ie thinking what is false is real.
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>>61012901
Homosexuals and transgenders are all mentally ill. Its a communicable social disease as well. Eddie Red is going to win the Oscar this year for playing a tranny because this mental disease is running rampant. Sorry Leo, you are getting BTFO again.
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>>61015795
There's no reason on why a man shouldn't wear a wig or a dress. There are pictures of one of America's presidents wearing a dress because back in the 19th century it was common for boys to wear dresses. What is masculinity and feminine is subjective.
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>>61015794
No you moron, not humanity, culture.

Cultural traditions and cultural moralities, often spread throughout a given society by osmosis, parents to children.

You have to look at this through the lens of evolution. Look at societies as competing animals for the same resources.

A society with a high birth rate, and a strong admiration of its own culture, WILL eventually grow to replace societies that have a low birth rate, and don't care about their culture.

In short, by fighting against gender roles and any kind of ongoing tradition, you are handing planet earth over to people who would gladly see 'sexual deviants' burnt at the stake.
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>>61015794

How am I being childish?

You said I can freely choose what I am.
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>>61015050
What are you basing that supposed fact off of? Humans are social creatures, it is likely that we had society before we were even human.
However, you are correct in some measure. Women do not have to stay at home anymore; but i would argue that they are better suited than men in almost all circumstances for being at home and child bearing.

Men do not have soft, curvy bodies that are good for snuggling and making children feel secure. Men do not have food sources on their chests for children. Men are aggressive and confrontational which could make many children scared and afraid. Differences like these were likely found in all our ancestors or human-like relatives, and it undoubtedly effected their societies.
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>>61012901

OP is trolling hard
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>>61016128
hes creating a good discussion that many people may be reading and not responding to.
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>>61016017
Society is now evolving to suite my view. I don't think this argument involves what you are thinking about which is race /other cultures.
>>61016123
I am not arguing against society simply on the basis that it is socially constructed though.
>>61016128
I'm a sociology student. It's uncommon to hold functionalist / new right views so you are a minority in this regards. I could say you are trolling for holding a contrary view.
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>>61012901
chromosomes are not a social construct

anyway, our social constructs (and again, they are biological very real things) have served us well for thousands of years allowing us to become the dominant species on this planet.

we don't need an 'argument' against it, they have yet to make a compelling argument that the 'non binary' exists.
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>>61016023
because he can't argue with logic.

it's not the same because it's not a term recognized by tumblr.

once enough people blog about it and the circlejerk extends, megatronsexual will be a thing, and point out the ovbious, aka that its a bunch of BS, will make you intolerant.
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>>61012901
>Gender is a social construct
>yet also biologically determined (I was born this way).

I don't even hate trannies and could not give a single fuck about what they do. Its not my business in the slightest.


But this contradiction demonstrates the extent to which the underpinning theory is well thought out or actually.

[protip: Most trannies don't buy the social construction of gender]
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>gender is a social construct
>i was born with the wrong gender
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>>61015929
No it is not. In that context it was not unmasculine to have a wig on, it was a sign of being distinguished. You're the one taking on eternal forms of "fashion" and reifying them.
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>>61015929
At that point the gender identity is irrelevant and should be null.
Broadening from binary is wrong. It should be simplified, not complicated.
We shouldn't be male or female, or trans or asexual: we are null. There is no classification division here. No hair to split.
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>>61012901
It's not like people just thought up gender roles, they came into existence through mass trial and error.
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>>61012901
>Gender is a social construct and there's no reason to have traditional conservative gender roles because they're arbitrary contrived and harmful to those who do not follow them.
Incorrect.
While some of the ways gender is expressed is a social construct to a degree, many gender roles have their roots in biology.
And they are far from arbitrary in most cases.
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>>61012901
Gender is created by biology. Behaviour is informed by gender. Becoming an invert is a mental condition, a sign of weakness, evidence of severe pathology. It shouldn't be encouraged. Those who enable this sort of sick behaviour should be punished.
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>>61016377
But gender isn't socially constructed. Societal norms that reflect differences in gender are socially constructed though.
Gender and differences between those genders exist in many animals and likely existed in humans before we even crafted a society.
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>>61014445
>Gender roles are complete social constructs.
Fuck off and die. Painfully. Kill yourself with the most gruesome, macabre means possible.
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>>61016377
OUR society is. Our society is becoming passive, doesn't care about our traditions, has a low birth rate, and is giving up gender roles.

There are over a billion Africans in the world. By 2100, that is expected to rise to 5.6 billion. How are you going to make other societies adopt your ideas of tolerance and acceptance, and make them give up gender roles, when those same gender roles are making them numerous and strong. How will make them give up their traditions, when their traditions have made them masters of the world?

And this isn't a racial thing, its purely from a cultural standpoint. Your ideas will lead to social and national decline, as they already have, and because natural selection is real, this means we WILL eventually be overtaken by societies that are just plain more efficient.

A higher population, and a stronger culture, means a stronger economy. A stronger economy means a stronger military. And a stronger military means a stronger nation.

Unless you have an actual plan to make other, stronger cultures adopt your views on sexuality, we WILL be ground into the dust.

In 10 years, everyone will wonder how anyone could ever be against homosexuality. In 100 years, everyone will wonder how anyone could ever be for it.
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>>61016230
This. Lurking now.
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>>61012901
Most of the arguments are grounded in biology and sociology. That is, you fuck with something in the wrong way, and shit hits the fan.

It also gives people the delusion that they've accomplished something that sets them apart from others, when in reality they have done no such thing.
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>>61016461
I wouldn't say it's biologically determined. Gender roles are socialized into.
>>61016581
It is irrelevant and should be null.
>>61016721
>>61016764
Delusions of Gender: How Our Minds, Society, and Neurosexism Create Difference by Cordeilla Fine is a book you should read.
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>>61014926
gender roles are not artificial, men had to be tough and good providers in order to look after their families, whilst women were needed as nurturers and homemakers. Revisionist bullshitters, you are worthless, and brainwashed (at taxpayers expense). You contribute nothing of value. Male and female roles ensure the viability of our species. The converse is, moral relativist hellholes like Sweden, which is rapidly avalanching towards ethnic self-genocide
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Girl here, it's finally good to meet someone with common sense out of all places.

What most people don't know is during the first few years of a child's life, it's in a state of neutrality since it hasn't decided if it's a boy or a girl yet. It is a gender construct since parents buy their sons male-orientated dolls just because he has a penis, and the child doesn't have the freedom to choose at that stage. Biology doesn't determine if you are a boy, girl or both, the power of our minds do.
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>>61015571
>Define equality?

I'll do you one better: my morality is superior to yours. Feminism is a parasite, only possible in a society created by a benevolent patriarchy. Further, it is only sustained because the latter protects the former from a malevolent patriarchy, such as Islam. You have no value proposition worth considering. All you have is "wouldn't it be nice if..."
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>>61016935
>I wouldn't say it's biologically determined. Gender roles are socialized into.

they are actually biologically determined. male babies (not toddlers, day old babies) and female babies *will* play and interact within their traditional gender roles.
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>>61016827
Globalisation is occurring, you know. Other nations will succumb to the will of the liberal majority. It's already happening. Most nations are not like this. Africa is the next South Korea. Society is becoming ONE.
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>>61014445
Prove trannies are of any value. Prove propagandizing this sickness advances humanity as a whole. Not one tranny was a great artist, scientist or thinker. They could all be packaged in a truck and dumped in the sea.
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>>61012901
because you're either a man or a woman, if you are a man who had a sex change? your a woman, if a woman who had a sex change? your a man, but instead they want to feel like special snowflakes and make up all these bullshit genders, thats my issue, as well as all these made up sexualitys, you either like the other gender, the same, both, or neither thats it, pansexual is jsut made up bullshit your bisexual, gender fluid just means you like the cross dress sometimes, which is fine, but pisses me off because they have to make up all these labels and titles to make themselves feel special.
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>>61014174
This.

Transgenderism is just one more blow to what made Western society so powerful and dominant. It's not the biggest blow, but when you combine it with other movements like feminism, gay marriage, interracial marriage, etc. they become a legitimate threat.
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>>61016581
Fucking bullshit you waste of oxygen and other useful resources
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>>61016998
Do note my 'holdovers' statement.
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>>61016377
>sociology

So you're trapped in a field of study that bases its observations on economic determinism and explicitly eschews biological/genetic explanations for differences between peoples and cultures. That makes a lot of sense.

You're essentially trapped in an autistic circle where any biological explanation is strictly Verboten so you try to rationalize everything in lieu of the ideology of your peers.

Now, some questions, do you believe Race exists? Do you believe 'species' exist? Isn't it afterall "arbitrary" that we consider all eight-legged insectoids spiders? What if I'm a trans-spider?!?!?!?
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>>61017049
wat
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>>61016935
Why don't you tell us why the book defeats our arguments?
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>>61016935
Fuck off
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>>61016423
>'non binary' exists.
Homosex and Transexualism existing is indicative of a third gender since more homosex males carry same gentic (XQ28) flaws as MtF trans.

The issue with the current social tradition of male and female is that it doesn't account for the third gender as gender is derived from sex, or the assignment genetically of the dominant X or Y chromosome for an individual. The result of the argument that gender is a social construct is that women and men equally don't exist, and therefore their is no correct allocation for gender other then sex and propagation of the species.The result of this is Feminism is as incorrect as Gender Identification and the concept of Patriarchy. At best this line of thinking obfuscates the ideology of society as unified entity and creates a difference of either the mother or the father, that of the god and goddess. Essentially the ideology of adhering to gender being socially constructed asks you to accept theocratic ideologies that existed 2000 years ago and persist today as known religions.While still excluding a third gender. Trans are neither male or female.

That is why gender is not a social construct. It asks you to regress socially.
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>>61017125
You are WRONG. The idea that liberalism will manage to completely subvert traditional cultures, before those cultures kill us off, is DELUSION.

Your ideas will eventually lose, because they make the societies they are practiced in WEAK.

It doesn't even matter if we want it to happen or not. I sure don't, those other societies are fucking crazy. But they WILL eat us if we do not change.
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>>61017049
Fucking bullshit
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Gender is not a social construct, gender expression is a social construct.
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>>61017049
Are children incapable of looking at their genitals?
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>>61017049

Top tier bait, Hans.
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ayy
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>>61017070
not an argument. i'll reply to you correctly once you make a point other than your opinion.
>>61017115
No. It is well-regarded that people fit into gender roles by socialisation. Countless of studies prove this, can't think of any right now but there's one showing a type of monkey and how the male monkey will choose to play with a girl toy.
>>61017133
You have to prove that it's a sickness.
>>61017267
Look up the research methodologies in sociology, both qualitative and quantitative and then get back to me. Not all sociological viewpoints eschew biological/genetic explanations but that viewpoint has been debunked.
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>>61016935
>I wouldn't say it's biologically determined. Gender roles are socialized into.

And yet that is something I have never actually heard from anyone with gender dysphoria.

You aren't getting the contradiction in the slightest.

Either on some level it is biologically determined, or there are better forms of treatment to bring sex and gender into line than massive surgery and life changing hormones.
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>>61012901
Trying to make me pretend it's normal through government fiat is wrong.
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>>61017049
>It is a gender construct since parents buy their sons male-orientated dolls just because he has a penis, and the child doesn't have the freedom to choose at that stage. Biology doesn't determine if you are a boy, girl or both, the power of our minds do

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_dimorphic_nucleus

If your not about to suck a cock, keep your mouth shut.
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>>61017253
Dude, relax. I embrace the idea of traditional roles.
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>>61017350
Gender expression and identities are socially constructed>>61017495
not an argument..
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>>61017258
Be careful in muddying the waters. Wearing certain types of clothing is obviously irrelevant to masculinity and femininity in their essence. But mas/fem roles are in some ways inherent. Girls inherently like lace and dollies, whereas boys inherently like guns and trucks. This unfortunately hasn't been accepted by the university of feminist hellholes in Sweden, Yes
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>>61017125
that's what the romans thought, too, you know.

The romans were smart, though. They realized (because of their facist state) that united peoples are stronger than multicultural states we have now.

The romans, when they conquered nations, gave all the citizens of that nation dual citizenship. One for their home nation and one for Rome.

But not even Rome could survive all the cannibalism that befalls all societies which aren't unified.

I'm sure you know the reason why crime rates are so low in Japan. America gets close to those same rates when you take out everyone except White americans from those statistics. I'm sure the same holds true for Britain and any country which has a very large minority population.
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>>61012901

Why don't you genderclowns finally do something that actually benefits society, like WORK, and not just mentally masturbate all fucking day over your pronouns?

You realize that you're not making the world any better by making a non-issue be your standard bearer of beliefs, but so be it, it just helps the rest of us who aren't trapped in finding new labels for everything know that we need to keep a large distance between us.
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>>61017488
There has never been a society in which the gender roles are completely inverted.

The basics of masculinity and femininity are universal. Only trivial bullshit changes.

What color clothes its acceptable to wear. Whether ear rings make you look effeminate. What hobbies a 'real man' is allowed to have. Whether women can wear pants.

None of that matters. All of it changes. Find me a society where being strong and courageous is considered effeminate, and we'll talk about gender being a social construct.
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>>61012901

Not all feminists agree with the gender identity nonsense. Many radical feminists hate the concept of "transgenderism".

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com
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>>61017653
1. They're not purely cultural.
2. I'm not arguing about whether your ideas are true or false [in this argument anyway] I'm arguing they'll get us killed and our culture defeated.
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>>Brainwashed feminazis and eunuchs: gender is a construct

>>Brainwashed feminazis and eunuchs: transgenderism is a real thing!

Pick one or none
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>>61014908

OP still hasn't replied to you

>>61012901
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>>61017488
so you haven't heard of the Swedish (SWEDEN YES) children playing with toys and despite the agenda of making them 'gender neutral' the boys just turned the dolls into guns? Haha.

Shill harder. It will surely make you some money to deny hormones and biology in general. Meanwhile China is researching the genetic bases of genius and will start genetically engineering children to be so within the next half-century. I guess since intelligence and genius are 'subjective' this won't have any real world effects at all ;)

You seem to be a prime trans-intellectual afterall.
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>>61017371

That depends on their age group. Very young ones between birth and the age of 3 are in a true state of gender neutrality, they don't know what to do with their biological parts which is why their parents help them release their bodily fluids when they go to the toilet. After the age of 3, they are mature enough to make decisions whether or not to be a boy, girl, or in a gender superposition state of both. Their choice of dolls may provide insight to their parents what their child wants to be and they should embrace it.
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>>61017653
>if I wave my hands, this inconsistency will go away.

If you don't want debate, why even post faggit?
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>>61012901
And there's nothing wrong with sending you to a camp for it
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>>61017488
>i'll reply to you correctly once you make a point other than your opinion.

It is not an opinion. It is a fact. Feminism has never won a war, never advanced science, and never built a society that wasn't brutally conquered(and raped most viciously) by violent societies. All of these modern strong, independent wymyn and their brave, genderfluid transqueers are utterly dependent on the protection and prosperity provided by the patriarchy. You mad?
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>>61017739
>basics of masculinity and femininity are universal

prove it, also majority of societies have followed a nuclear family structure for example but that doesn't mean family diversity doesn't exist so your argument is a complete sham.
>>61017841
I see your pov and it's quite irrational. Social darwinisim is so false that it's laughable and your view is quite pessismistic too anon.
>>61017891
I never claimed genius was subjective.
>>61017921
Bring a point to the table of this debate and i'll address it.
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>>61012901

How can gender be a social construct when 100 years ago we were surgically incapable of converting a male to a female?

Transgenderism is only done through the mutilation of the human body by surgery and unnatural hormone supplementation.
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>>61014908
To these nutters Sex and gender are somehow totally different things, despite all evidence to the contrary.
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>>61012901

They are economically counter productive and can only get and keep jobs due to civil rights laws. They push their shit on kids. They actively try to destroy one of the only cultures who would actually protect them while turning a blind eye to cultures which literally stone people like them.
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>>61017686
>Girls inherently like lace and dollies, whereas boys inherently like guns and trucks.
But this is false. We're straight on the same side, and you go and fuck things up.

Children are more tabula rasa than you think, and THAT'S THE ISSUE.
Raising a child is like trying to shape clay on a spindle that rotates in 4 dimensions, and it really does take a village.
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TFW you realize that no matter how you identify, you can never be anything other than what you already are.

Men who identify as women can't bear children, women who identify as men cannot impregnate females. Funny how nature isn't confused about what constitutes male/female, but leftists still debate it over and over.

Nature always wins, folks. But, keep thinking that prancing around pretending you're something other than what you are is actually fooling anyone other than yourself!
>>
>>61018037
I don't think their is a correlation between what you are speaking of and I'm not talking about the abolition of protection either. I'm merely stating that their are individuals who do not fit on the traditional gender spectrum and thus it would be harmful to force them to fit to our perception of what a man/woman should look like.
>>61018074
Gender is not sex.
>>61018138
They are.
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>>61012901
There is no problem with it, but you don't deserve special treatment for it either. A bathroom that's for women is for biological women. Too bad if you don't like it.
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>>61018062
You fail to comprehend that language and concepts in general are all "socially contstructed" but they refer to specific, real life things.

Tell me, do spiders exist or are they "purely" a social construct? Surely it is arbitrary to select eight-legged insectoids that spin webs into a group.

You're just being an anti-nominalist for purely ideological reasons.
>>
>>61017584

>Citing Wikipedia

Opinion discarded.
>>
>>61018062
Masculinity and femininity have served humanity and all other mammalian species well for millions of years, they are rooted in biology despite 'feminist facts', there is no reputable scientific debunking of biologically rooted sex and gender behaviours, the only protest is from a bunch of indoctrinated nonentities who really should be gassed for the benefit of humanity.
>>
>>61018062
1. I'm not saying nuclear families are the only family type, I'm saying they're more efficient. I'm not comparing things by how 'moral' they are, I'm comparing things by how strong and efficient they are.

2. Social Darwinism in the context of a singular society is not quite accurate, since reciprocity exists as a concept within a given society. I'm not talking about social Darwinism, I"m talking about regular Darwinism. A weak society will eventually be absorbed by a strong society, through trade or conquest.

Face it, in 10 years you'll have your SJW paradise, but in 100 everyone will be Muslim and no one will even know what a genderqueer was. They'll just laugh and cry at the poisons that killed Europe.
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>>61012901
>What's wrong with being transgender, androgynous, not fitting in the gender binary etc?

Shoving it in everyone's face and having it be the only subject of importance for them
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>>61018174
Go to bed, you lifeless faggot. Dont you have a life tomorrow?
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>>61018298
You're misunderstanding the concept of a social construct. here's a wiki article to clear your confusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_constructionism
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>>61018062
How can gender be an intrinsic part of a tranxsexuals identity if it is socially constructed.

Or are you too stupid to understand this?

I don't even have the slightest probable with traps, trans or homos becasue I believe in freedom and part of that is the freedom to define your own identity, for your own reasons, which you are not obliged to explain to me.

But pretending the image of transgenderism doesn't involve contradictory theories of human nature (ie intrinsic/constructed and by extension immutable/flexible) is just intellectually dishonest.
>>
>>61018457
Answer my question about spiders, big guy.

*spins trans-spider web* :3
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>>61012901
I was with you until you got to the part about Gender being a social construct, but I'll continue with this bait thread regardless.

The LGBTQ community is divided, and don't rightfully know what they want. This lack of unity is their greatest weakness, since they're completely and utterly unable to focus their energy towards having a singular issue addressed. On top of that, much like an ouroboros, they'll attack each other and eat themselves alive if one particular part of the LGBTQ community's ideals conflict with anothers. With a simple google search, you can find a wealth of stories on the topic of feminists and transfolk knocking heads.

What's wrong with being trans, androgynous, or not fitting into the gender binary? Absolutely nothing. The fact that you want to divide a united community and replace it with another divided community, however, is troublesome.
>>
>>61018184
Speaking of tabula rasa recommend you read the book "The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature" because the claims you are making have been deeply and definitively exploded. It's truly the best book on the topic for a lay audience, very well written, and essential /pol/core.
>>
>>61018074
again, for the benefit of the stupid, here is the tumblrista argument

>gender is not real, it is only a social construct!
>genderfluidkin is a totes real thing and I gender identify as a pizza box wearing attack helicopter and don't you oppress me, even if I don't know where the foetus is going to gestate, I'll keep it in a box

>>61018184
99% of the time this is true. You leave boys to their own devices and they will grab the guns. Ditto girls and dollies. This is observed fact for decades. Even in Sweden, yes
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>>61018341
evolutionary psychology and the rest of what you are speaking about have yet to be proven. your views are not a scientific consensus.
>>61018374
efficient is subjective too, efficient according to what metric?
>>61018562
You are autistic and stupid. I'm not answering joke questions.
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>>61012901
>Gender is a social construct and there's no reason to have traditional conservative gender roles because they're arbitrary contrived and harmful to those who do not follow them.
Obvious troll is obvious. It laughable that some people actually believe the whole 'Social Construct' bulshit .
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>>61018270
If gender is only a social construct, how can people inherently not fit one or the other gender? Why don't you socially condition them with your books and a nice dose of aversion therapy to see the silliness of their ways?
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>>61018581
sociology niggers hate real stuff like cognitive and neuroscience. Steven Pinker is worth more than that field has ever done.
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>>61018641
You are so mad right now
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>>61018457
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_constructionism

> (0) In the present state of affairs, X is taken for granted; X appears to be inevitable.
Such as your desire to live as a woman

>(1) X need not have existed, or need not be at all as it is. X, or X as it is at present, is not determined by the nature of things; it is not inevitable.
Such as your ability to live as a woman.
>>
>>61018641
Come on. Why can we not question the arbitrary social construct of Spider but Gender is OK? You're backpedaling because you're a faggot not used to people questioning their metaphysical premises.
>>
>>61018631
But in physicality you cannot be a pizza box wearing attack helicopter. You cannot have any of the qualities of that. A man who feels female can act like societies perception of what a female is. He can get surgery too.
>>61018754
Do you really think you could simply "socially condition" every single human being that has these views?
>>61018867
not an argument.
>>61018906
not the same.
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>>61017584
>Biology doesn't determine if you are a boy, girl or both, the power of our minds do
You don't have kids, do you? Boys and girls; men and women are very different. Not only physically but in the way they think and behave.
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>>61018641
There is no reputable, evidence based or even theoretically based counterpoint. You and your ilk are making the extraordinary claims, perhaps you can provide some behavioural or genetic evidence to support them?
Genetics does hardwire male and female brains differently. There has never been a truly great female composer or architect, for example.
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>>61012901

Shut up with your modern terms for your made up bullshit.

No one gives a shit. We have bigger fish to fry.
>>
Tradition is normative male power. Changing tradition towards "equal standards" or "ending maleness" is transferring normative power towards females.

So transitioning from masculinity to femininnity is transfering normative power from males to females.

Being in an "equal state" of normativity the way I see it is both genders believing each other to be oppressed by the normative roles each selfishly apply to each other.

for example: men calling women sluts and bitches or women forcing men to close their legs in public transportation, calling them fuccbois, even wearing make-up to mask their ugliness and all that shit is normative social power.

This all seems like what people call "micro-transgression" but it is just normative social power.
>>
>>61018270
>>>61018074Gender is not sex.

Okay, so it's simply PRETENDING to be a sex other than what nature assigned you so you can twirl around saying "OMG look at me I'm so awesomely different because I consider myself a pansexual otherkin who was a tree in a past life!" and avoid doing anything useful with your life.

I think it's all becoming clear to me now.
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>>61018968
Why isn't it the same?

Are you some kind of humancentric shitlord that doesn't care about the plight of trans-spiders?

I may not have 8 legs but don't you dare question my EXPERIENCE!!! REEE

you're a fucking idiot and a coward because your precious marxist psuedo-science can't hold up to anything but subverting gender roles.
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>>61018641
What metric? The metric of survival. I'm talking about Darwinism.

You take a society that doesn't care about its traditions, and has less offspring, than one that does care about its traditions, and has tons of offspring, what do you think will happen?

The one that doesn't care about its traditions will suffer FAR more social converts to the tradition that resists proselytizing, and having less numbers, will eventually be either economically or politically dominated by that stronger society.

Them defeating us doesn't have to be as drastic as a literal conquest. It can be as simple as their economies growing while ours shrinks, their culture dominating the mainstream while ours takes a backseat, their values being promoted while ours are forgotten.

This isn't as simple as what you think is true or false, right or wrong. This is about 500,000,000 Europeans on the decline somehow converting the other 6.5 billion and counting people on Earth to liberalism, most of whom are primitive and very traditional, before they get eaten alive in raw numbers.
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>>61018270
OK, I get it.

The whole "gender is a social construct" has to do with tumblr-tier re-definitions of words that have existed in English for a while. "Sex isn't gender and gender isn't sex" seems to be the problem.

That's OK, I get it. But, where's the counter argument to behavior linked to "sex" chemicals. If gender isn't sex, then is it that male-sex humans are known to be more aggressive because of their testosterone?

So, a woman-sex human wanting to become a male-gender human needs to have this chemical directly linked to male-sex humans? How is that *not* gender and sex being literally the same?
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>>61018270
>I don't think their is a correlation between what you are speaking of and I'm not talking about the abolition of protection either. I'm merely stating that their are individuals who do not fit on the traditional gender spectrum and thus it would be harmful to force them to fit to our perception of what a man/woman should look like.

If a schizophrenic person is convinced that they are a bat, you do not blind them and send them hang gliding with a megaphone. It is the height of insanity to expect everyone ELSE to declare that these people are healthy and are in fact whatever they say they are. That is anti-reality and anti-civilization.
>>
Name one tranny who has significantly contributed to society.
>protip: you can't
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>>61018987
>Genetics does hardwire male and female brains differently

Delusions of Gender: How Our Minds, Society, and Neurosexism Create Difference by Cordelia Fine.

I recommend reading this if you want to understand more. I'm going to sleep now so I don't have time to answer all these questions.
>>61019124
Nature does not assign gender.
>>61019148
Humans are different from other animals because we can reflect, we have culture, etc. Look up behavioural modernity and the features that make us human. Descartes made a good argument for this too. A spider does not have culture so applying the metaphysical premise and comparing isn't the same. Humans have the unique ability to change. A spider could not act like a human because it lacks the mental requisites. It's nonsense to compare gender to becoming an animal.
>>61019275
Transgenderism is no longer classified as a mental illness.
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>>61018968
In physicality a man cannot be a woman. Gender is biologically based certainly to this extent.
Do you admit that transgender people then are mentally affected, pathological? You seem to admit that this is delusional behaviour. Your wymyn's study course would probably be horrified at this
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>>61019420
>Transgenderism is no longer classified as a mental illness.

There are 4 lights, and 2+2=4. I do not care what The Party's official propaganda says about the matter.
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>>61019420
>Nature does not assign gender.
but it does assign sex, which happens to be directly correlated to gender in 99.9999999999999999999999999% of all humans that every existed?
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>>61019448
Look up gender identity and expression because you obviously have no fucking clue what you are talking about and it's humiliating talking to someone with your calibre of intelligence.

OP here, I'm going to sleep, enjoy the discussion. I will be making another thread of this nature tomorrow.
>>
>>61019420
Simon Baron-Cohen reviewed the book in The Psychologist. In it, he accused Fine of "fusing science with politics," writing, "Where I – and I suspect many other contemporary scientists – would part ways with Fine is in her strident, extreme denial of the role that biology might play in giving rise to any sex differences in the mind and brain. ...(she) ignores that you can be a scientist interested in the nature of sex differences while being a clear supporter of equal opportunities and a firm opponent of all forms of discrimination in society."[13] Fine responded in a published letter to The Psychologist, stating "The thesis of my book (no veils required) is that while social effects on sex differences are well-established, spurious results, poor methodologies and untested assumptions mean we don’t yet know whether, on average, males and females are born differently predisposed to systemizing versus empathising."[14]

Diane Halpern, whose paper "The Science of Sex Differences in Mathematics and Science" is also criticized by Fine in Delusions of Gender, reported mixed feelings about the book, arguing that it was "strongest in exposing research conclusions that are closer to fiction than science...and weakest in failing to also point out differences that are supported by a body of carefully conducted and well-replicated research."[15]
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>>61018270
>They are.
1. In what way do you thing they are
2. prove it

Also know that Dr.Money (the guy that originally pushed the idea that sex and gender separate) actually tested his ideals and they failed spectacularly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
"Gender Theory" despite being popular among some is demonstrably false.
>>
McCarthy and Ball (2011) reviewed the book in the journal Biology of Sex Differences. They acknowledged that "Prompting laypeople to adopt a more critical view of overly simplistic views of complex data sets is a goal any scientist can support, and for that we applaud (Fine's) efforts." However, their overall review is not positive, and they note that Fine's book presents an oversimplified and seriously distorted characterization of neuroscience as applied to the study of sex differences. They expressed disappointment that Fine's book "...can be vexing in the ways the scientific study of sex differences in brain and behavior is portrayed and (how) the current state-of-the-art is presented."[19] However, later work by Fine published in the journal Neuroethics identified systematic issues in the way neuroimaging investigations of sex differences tend to be investigated, contra the notion of a few 'bad apples'.[20]
>>
Reminder that if you believe gender is a social construct transgenderism is nonsense.

Conversely, if you believe there is a biological male and female brain, you have to acknowledge that body-brain mismatches do occur, though you can still dispute the extent of such instances.
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>>61019420
>Transgenderism is no longer classified as a mental illness.

Someone fucked up with that, all it takes is a few edits and we can make things right once again!

Explain why genderclows and tranniefags kill themselves at such a high rate even when they reach their pinnacle of "conversion" or "acceptance"?

It's a dead-end road that leads to nothing, and you dipshits charge to your doom like it's something to be proud of. Apparently god does hate genderclowns and trannies because you're self-terminating at a fantastic rate!
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>>61019610
>I will be making another thread of this nature tomorrow
Please don't, autist.
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>>61018307
>/Sexually_dimorphic_nucleus
fine complainer, here

>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1256598/

>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK10975/

>http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/en.2009-1022
>>
>>61019780
you are use to autistic rambling about jews and cultural marxism because you are a basement NEET stuck in a bubble. enjoy life I guess, I might make a thread if I feel like debating, most people here aren't very rational (yourself) but this conversation has been alright
>>
>>61019610
Fucking retarded university dwelling dole bludgers, who think because they define a word in a certain way they can pervert its meaning. You're a fucking retard. Kill yourself, do something for humanity. Your morally perverse contagion needs to be removed from the well of human thought.

You come here, with your tumblrina attacks on sex identity, you and your ailk deny they have any basis, whilst promoting the sickness and delusion of cross dressing. You are morally bankrupt, hypocritical and logically bereft. Yes, I suggest that you do retreat into the comforting hollows of your eunuch echo chamber
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>>61018631
You're couching it in poor terms, is all. I do agree that biologically male will lean almost universally to domination games and biologically female toward nesting in a vacuum. But the ease of which these impulses are overridden by operant conditioning is plain to see.

There is a rift between 'good for me' and 'good for my species' that is only getting wider the further we insulate ourselves from life's realities.

The flaw is not in these people or the philosophies that protect and shelter them, but the very real fact that we've changed our whole environment so much that we aren't biologically capable of handling it.
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>>61019981
thinking gender is a social construct is way more retarded than the autistic jew rants of 4chan
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>>61019730
Whereas, surprise surprise,

Hilary Rose, a feminist sociologist, described Fine as "a brilliant feminist critic of the neurosciences".[17] and
Feminist linguistics professor Deborah Cameron: "I would certainly recommend both the books reviewed here to feminists: they are well-informed, well- argued and (for science books, perhaps unusually) well-written interventions in what I would consider (though I hate having to) one of the most important debates in current sexual politics."[21]

Whereas,
Lewis Wolpert, a developmental biologist, in a video lecture stated that "Fine hasn't a clue about biology."

lel
>>
>>61020384
What this goy said
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>>61020348
Okay. Without guns and dollies these natural impulses will demonstrate themselves, unless the children are in some way genetically damaged or severely indoctrinated.
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>>61020055
I'm not morally perverse though. I study philosophy and other social sciences to help make sense of the world. If you cannot argue your case then it doesn't matter about your opinion. Calling something "retarded" doesn't make it so. I benefit humanity far more than you do.
>>61020384
For the scientists that study this, the dominant view is that gender is a social construct.
>>
>Gender is a social construct

No it's not. Gender is a physiological consequence of sex.

Gender ROLES are the social constructs. But the fact that you don't feel like acting like a typical man does doesn't make you not a man. It just makes you a weird man.
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>>61020765
Not even severely. It can be absolutely subtle, so long as it's consistent.
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>>61012901
>Gender is a social construct
No it isn't. Gender and sex are the same thing and it's biologically determined.
>and there's no reason to have traditional conservative gender roles
Apart from the fact that every single scientific, social, and technical innovation innovation in the history of man has been produced in societies where these norms have hegemony? NO, NO REASON AT ALL
> because they're arbitrary contrived and harmful to those who do not follow them.
There's a theory that social mores are REQUIRED to be arbitrary, rather than objectively useful, because then following them proves that you are serious about investing in a community. It's like hazing: subordinating your immediate self interest to a community's mystical rules and rites. Helps build social cohesion as an emergent property, not an intrinsic one.
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>>61020784
Social 'sciences' should be defunded and destroyed with extreme prejudice. All they lead to is an unstinting attack on the fundamentals of society. You do not benefit society by participating in its undermining.

>>For the scientists that study this, the dominant view is that gender is a social construct.

>citation please
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>>61012901

Isnt not murdering somebody a social construct? Like there are no natural laws to stop people murdering eachother. Socially we combined and agreed not to murder eachother, then created places for people to go and be punished if they do murder another person.

Basically. Just because something is a social construct, it doesnt mean its bad.
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>>61020784
>>>61020384For the scientists that study this, the dominant view is that gender is a social construct.

Just like how scientists paid to study "global warming" have all decided that because they're paid to study it, it must exist.

Kek @ the fact that climate studies and gender studies are pretty much shit-tier broscience bullshit in all regards. What a fucking waste of time and money.
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>>61014908
What about complete androgen insensitivity syndrome? Or XXX or XXY or any of the other weird intersex conditions that happen more often than being transgender?
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>>61021238
You are an irrational nazi. People with your views should not be allowed to participate in society.
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>>61021421
>weird intersex conditions

Such types were once thrown down a well for being freaks, a tradition that might do some good if revived.
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>>61012901
The antithesis of equality is uniqueness.

To demand more considerations be made for a specific, self-defined group you and maybe others like you have created is a direct attack on equality.

The most equal society would not any acknowledge genders.
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>>61013896
It's 1931, I mean COME ON!!
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>>61021620
THIIIIIIIIS
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>>61021573
>My opinion is fact and you cannot change them.
>You are a nazi, not me, goy.
Go back to /lgbt/
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>>61019610
Nigger, you don't even understand the notion of the spider is a social construct made BY, FOR humans. Now, do spiders exist or are they just social constructs? You evaded my question by side-stepping into 'spiders don't have culture' (follow up: what issss cullllture?).

I'll see you tomorrow sociologist faggot.

It should tell you something when your science is BTFO by retarded white nationalists on a cambodian totem-pole carving circle.
>>
>>61021620
>>61021844
Cause you throw all the people with birth defects down a well, right?
Go to bed, kiddo.
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>>61021421
> What about complete androgen insensitivity syndrome?
This is a MALFUNCTION. It is the genotype failing to function as it should.
When you try and use these cases to justify a rethink of the rest of the 99.99999% of the human population's definition, it's like you're taking a data-fitting routine and only training it using outliers.
...which, for the non-STEM folks here, is a retarded thing to do.
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>>61021219
Yet even those who've been conditioned tend to rebel, as per the Swedish example. Biological gender characteristics are very deep, and go well beyond physiognomy. If they didn't have something in the nature of a priori reality, these notions of gender wouldn't have their power, especially for those who delusionally believe they have the opposite gender. These are not social constructs in the way that eating with the right fork is. They are concepts of a similar nature to other named things, the spider was alluded to. All sexually reproducing animals have specific gendered behaviours, why is it surprising that man is the same? Many human behaviours are analogous to those of our mammalian kin. We observe courting, providing, nurturing behaviours totally analogous to our fellow members of the zoological kingdom. Only brainwashed feminists and their enablers wish to deny this reality.
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>>61012901
it's just like this pic
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>>61022001
Wrong quote. >>61021608
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>>61022001
Nigga I don't even....
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>>61021421

His definition is incomplete, here is a complete definition.

In mammals, if an organism has an expressed Y chromosome, they are male, if not, they are female.

XXX is female, XXY is male. Total androgen insensitivity is female, despite being XY, because the Y is not expressed, and thus has no physiological presence in the phenotype.

"Intersex" normally refers to people born with ambiguous genitalia, but ultimately this doesn't actually have anything to do with what sex the person is. It's just a congenital malformation that happens to be on the genitals. More importantly, such malformations are usually relatively easy to correct.

Even in cases where this is suspected to be a result of chimerism, this doesn't make the person in between sexes, not any more than a man who receives a kidney from his sister is in between sexes.
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>>61021378
No what he meant is. all the 'scientists' who study social science and the University of Andrea Dworkin agree with me that all men are rapists but gender is not real
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>>61022001
>Cause you throw all the people with birth defects down a well, right?

No, just the ones who are going to use their fucked-up genital condition as a tool for subversion against decent society. People like that are no loss to anyone other than their parents, and it's for the great good, so down they go!
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>>61021573
Move to Sweden or Germany, you can be culturally enriched there, big black cock awaits you
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>>61021903
This debate doesn't have much to do with epistemology, anon. I'm curious to why you are mentioning it? Man comes into contact with objective reality via sense data. The "notion" of a spider isn't merely a notion but objective fact.
>>
>>61014445
>They aren't classified as that anymore

Guess how that happened, OP? It wasn't a scientific breakthrough, by the way.
>>
Gender is not a social construct. It's biology. All of science and medicine say its biology.

All of psychiatry says it's a mental disorder.

'Transgender' people must have an official diagnosis from a psychiatrist. Depending upon the diagnosis manual the psychiatrist uses, the diagnosis is for Gender Identity Disorder/Gender Identity Syndrome/or Gender Dysphoria.

A mental syndrome diagnosed by a psychiatrist which becomes part of their medical record and generates a treatment plan to manage their symptoms. People who suffer from GID call their mental syndrome 'transgender' so they don't feel so bad about it.

Officially recognized and standard treatment consists of PSYCHIATRIC COUNSELING and prescription medication. The counseling is an integral part of their treatment, and no doctor or psychiatrist proceeds with treatment without the concurrent psychiatric therapy.

This is the standard treatment': psychiatric therapy plus prescription meds. People who suffer from GID call their treatment 'transitioning' so they don't feel so bad about it.

Less than .03% of the population is affected with varying degrees of GID/GIS/GD. Less than .03%. But the depression and suicide rate of GID/GIS/GD sufferers is staggering compared to general population. The standard treatment is recognized by psychiatrists and medical doctors as moderately effective in reducing their rate of suicide, depression and dysphoria, and other symptoms. Depression, anxiety and suicidal tendencies are common symptoms of GID.

Some medical providers will not perform sex reassignment surgery even upon recommendation by a psychiatrist, because it does not help the suicide rate in the long term. Johns Hopkins, the hospital that pioneered sex change surgery, will no longer perform the surgeries for this reason...because it does not help GID sufferers long term in any meaningful statistical way.
>>
as long as retards are not fucking killed on birth ill tolerate fags
>>
How about a simple question for the OP and others who believe this shit:

HOW has any of this made the world any better. What is to be gained from trying to force some bullshit acceptance and coddling on those of us who don't give a fuck? How is inventing excuses for people to spend their lives focused on triviality gender bullshit helping ANYTHING?

I mean, aside from protecting some genderclown's precious feelings, I have yet to hear how any of this shit makes a lick of difference in anything other than being one more way to unravel the threads that hold together a working society. Which is a bad thing, mind you.
>>
>>61021903
Its not a social construct as such, but in a sense it is a linguistic construct if you want to go all 'logical positivist'. That doesn't negate its reality. If it fits the definition of spider as defined, then it fits the definition. Recursion is also a real thing. We can define male and female humans in the same way. Gender is not a social construct, although it is also a linguistic construct. Certain gender behaviours may be acquired. Brain hardwiring though is genetic. That is why hormones are required to pathetically mimic 'wrong biology'
>>
>>61022031
>Genes condition gender
>Transgenderism in its various forms is a malfunction

Ahmed, yes!
>>
>>61022330

What's the tuition like there? Do all women need to possess at least 1" of facial hair growth in order to be accepted? Do men have to tuck their balls behind their legs in order to be allowed on campus? Now I'm curious...
>>
>>61022052
Man, we're on the same side, how many times do I have to say that. Me Choir. You Preacher.
But it's not just the feminists. It's literally everyone who doesn't think they have to kill to eat. We've built a poisonous comfortable world. Nature is a warrior goddess and every day every living thing is at war. If you don't fight you deserve death.
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>>61022608
Male and female humans are also an observed fact, as are male and female behaviours throughout the animal kingdom. Just admit it, you are a brainwashed drone and an eunuch
>>
>>61015116
Monarchism of varying stripes was the reigning political model that worked throughout human history, yet is flawed for pretty obvious reasons (firstly, that the nation will suffer if one person happens to be incompetent).
Traditions are meant to be broken.
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>>61023624
I don't know but I believe that the 'women' there are all packing and the 'men' there all walk funny
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>>61023929
Only when there is something better.
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>>61012901
What's the legitimate argument???

Im a real woman. I don't need hormones, or surgery to pretend to be one. I have had 2 children out of my real uterus.

You can only pretend, Pinocchio. But there is no blue fairy that will magically make you a woman. You can only pretend.

And you pretend to be some kind of hypersexualized cartoon of a woman. We always can tell the imposters. Because NO MATTER how much you study women, no matter how many transtube videos you watch, you can only mimic. You can't even talk or begin to understand female culture. We talk periods and babies and the first time we had sex. All you can do is talk castes and transitioning and hormones and gold stars and hons. It's two different worlds.

And you'll never fit in ours. We laugh at you behind your back. You can only envy my womanhood, the whole me..the entire REAL package. You appropriate my sex, and you are a joke. Fuck off you sick fuck.
>>
>>61023654
Yes, our views are similar and I rejoice to think that this diseased thinking hasn't spread to every corner of the globe. And yes, Aussies and Americans are (generally) the least blue pilled folks when it comes to these sort of issues, so I have your back

Just making some clarifications though ameribro :)
>>
>>61024305
>>61022976
NOICE POSTS

Let's face it, transgenders will never be real, only impotent caricatures of the real thing.
>>
>>61024253
I can agree with that, but I can't say for sure whether or not parsing out freedoms that pretty much everyone else in civilized societies already enjoys to a traditionally disenfranchised minority (to the point of death most places) is going to be a bad thing. Seems a bit early to tell still.
I'm thinking it isn't going to make much of a difference, as usual. Really, when I think of the kinds of people who have wronged me in my life, I don't think of LGBT people. Not too many of those guys in Montana or the military.
>>
>>61012901
We don't "hate" them, we just think that they are making things up. When those things cost us any money/taxes at all, we don't want to pay for them, because we think they are made up. When those things or people get in our way, bother us, invade our space in ways that we don't want them too, etc., we are bothered by it.
If you told me there was an entire nation of gay people, trannies, etc., we'd be fine with it. The second one of them starts bothering me, i.e. by flaunting that aspect of themself in any way, I'm not fine with it.

It's not an issue of principle but a matter of practicality, understand?

Most people here say it is principle, but those people are children under 20 and what they think doesn't really matter yet anyway.
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>>61012901
Do you realise how many things of actual importance are being missed out on and put on hold so everyone can pander to these faggots? Fucking maroon them on an island and let nature takes its course, I would give it 5 years max, before the island was devoid of all life. They're more selfish than niggers and that's a truly unbelievable statement to make.
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>>61012901
Gender roles are not a social construct. It makes an abundance of sense why you would have innate roles for men and women. They may not be as important in the 21st century, I will agree on that, but if you think about being a member of the savannah food chain long enough it will make sense why we'd have innate roles. Every other species specializing tasks for different sexes, these roles are hardwired into their nervous system. We are just animals, there's no reason to assume an evolutionary mechanism millions of years old just ceased to exist because we stood up straight one day.
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>>61024577
Fist bump.
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>>61024878
Okay, but that would be a different thread. You see, political gays attack society with their 'gay is as good as straight' and 'marriage equality for dustbins' and then the whole promotion of transgenderism and attacking the moral foundations of society (including denying the biological basis of gender). Decriminalization of consenting acts between adults seemed to be a sensible thing. Unfortunately these groups are not satisfied with this, and won't be until transgenderism and gay marriage are compulsory. This is happening in a sense, young children are being forced into abnormal gender roles by zealous lgbtialphabet parents right now
>>
Masculine/feminine qualities are associated with hormones released by the endocrine system. Men and women, typically, have different rates of release of these hormones. There are exceptions, but gender "roles" are largely just the natural byproduct of these hormonal releases.
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>>61022976
>gender dysphoria
Not dysmorpia?
So the illness is literally 'unable to be happy with my gender'?
Ffs...
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>>61023929

Monarchy is an outgrowth of natural hierarchies. The most successful societies can consistently reflect nature as it is over time. This is difficult to discern because we are humans and prone to all kinds of error. Republican Democracy isn't perfect either. It depends on masses of people being able to navigate the world of politics as a collective. The prosperity that the system brings is ultimately what brings it to an end, because the people become too soft to make difficult decisions effectively, and either overextend or look to a strongman to manage things for them. This creates a cycle, one whose merit(or lack thereof) is worth discussing, but not here.
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>>61026688
We're a very novel species. Bar none THE best killers on the planet. The alpha predator. A feature peaceniks overlook.
And then this.
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>>61012901
>everythng is a social construct
>So who cares if we destroy them or just turn them into whatever I feel like blablahblah

Shush. go to bed little feminazi.

Of course if you don't like social constructs, you could always.. you know move somewhere where there aren't any rather than forcing your own social constructs on others if it's that bad.

Africa, for example. Nothing but niggers, no society, no social constructs.
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>>61024878

Their identity contributes absolutely nothing to society. Anything that they as people contribute is incidental to said identity. It is not practical or necessary to hunt these people down in the manner of the Muslim world. Their simple existence is not the issue: the psychic angst that drives them to act out for attention and is an issue. Their tendency to abuse children and be prone to drug addiction and disease is an issue. Their desire to make their identity, and its attendant pathologies, accepted as "normal" and even be portrayed as exotic or glamorous is the MAIN issue.

It never really stays "in the bedroom between consenting adults."
>>
>>61014858
Are women happier working?
For enough income to raise a child, both partners pretty much have to work.
Is this better than how it was?
>>
>>61026569
Yes, it has come to this....
>>
>>61014445
It a sickness scientists can tell when deceased people are trans because they're brains are wired differently. Ergo its like add or aspburgers they are disorders and we treat them as such
>>
I'm cool with homosexuality and transsexuality, as long as it stays as just that. Once it becomes "I'm a genderqueer wibbly wobbly queersexual" they need to be put down. Also don't force your gay jew agenda on me.
>>
>>61017125
Good luck with that. I'm sure they'll all come around to your way of thinking. Not like anyone could possibly value their own culture and traditions.
Idiot.
>>
>>61028278

She can play-act as a man. So yes.
>>
>>61023841
What classifies as male and female behaviour?
>>
>>61017049
Listen you fucking retard whether a kid knows its a boy or girl or plays with dolls doesn't atop its body from producing testosterone because its a fucking male. If a kid likes female things its still male if it grows into a faggot it still a male if ot cuts its penis off and artificially transforms its a mutilated self lying male
>>
>>61029709
>Once it becomes "I'm a genderqueer wibbly wobbly queersexual" they need to be put down.
Most legitimate trans people outside of dumblr feel the same way as you do. Do you think they actually enjoy being made into complete jokes by those fucking retards?

One of my best friends is ftm and he's bro tier as fuck and actually pretty red pilled on shit. Wouldn't even know he was trans by looking at him on top of it.
>>
>>61030332
This is why we need a tranny uprising on tumblr. I have respect for real transsexuals and real gays. They are bro-tier, even when things get awkward. We should convince the traps on /b/ to go and stop the cancer on tumblr.
>>
>>61030071
I thought you went to bed? OCD-like, OP (is a fag) has to return to the scene of the crime.
These differ from species to species, incidentally. Things that seem to cross species, are things like courtship rituals in males, birdsong in birds (generally a male preserve, and related to courtship) and in females, childbirth, and suckling and nurturing young. Sometimes the male parent is involved in providing food or hunting. These are somewhat akin to human gendered behaviours. In any case, the significant thing is not what these behaviours are, but that all species have gendered behaviours. The only ones that claim they do not is some humans, but humans are the only ones who have the capacity to contravene their instinctual responses. But humans have gendered instincts too, anyone who has observed a mother with her child knows this to be true (excepting crack whores, but even some of them display these instinctual nurturing behaviours)
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>>61030986
I'd say we could just burn tumblr, but they'd just find a new place to congregate to feed their bullshit.
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>>61031168
Essentially, males are the protectors and females the nesters. There are exceptions to this. Still hardwired genderer behaviours are observed. It wouldn't matter really if it involved sticking a feather in one's arse and farting the national anthem, these are still gendered behaviours.
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>>61031721
gendered* not genderer
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>>61024305
I love you for stepping in and proving it's not just ignorant males oppressing "real" women. Because real women know they are frauds
>>
>>61031700
That's why we get the trannies to fuck with them. Just say something about "muh gender appropriation" and "stereotypical oppression" and inane shit like that.
>>
>>61032217
That's already a thing. They apparently get labeled as "truscum" and their opinions are generally ignored. It's fucking sickening. If you don't agree with their hivemind, regardless of logic and backed up facts, they completely disregard you and anything you say. It's like talking to a bunch of 7 year olds plugging their ears.
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>>61032577
Fuck. How can we destroy feminism and dumblr using their "logic"? Work with me canadabro
>>
>>61017049
>Denmark
>Girl

Your nordic sisters are being raped to death by men who do not give one shit about your ideas of social construction, believe that we are all made thusly by Allah, and you should cover up you filthy whore.

And no kids are not in a state of neutrality and studies of infants at six days from birth have shown cognitive differences corresponding with gender. You are literally the problem in your country and should kill yourself.
>>
>>61032819
I'm still trying to figure that out myself. I guess legitimate trannies will need to be more vocal than them, but I can't say I blame them for not wanting to take a stand when the world seems to be wary of them while tumblr shit is still the main focus.

It's a pretty shitty situation all around. I only know as much as I do thanks to my friend, really. That fucker opened my eyes.
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>>61033182
Thank your friend for me. I had given up hope that non-cancerous transgendered people existed. I don't think it's possible to fix that shithole, so we should just convince our governments to ignore that kind of idiocy.
>>
>>61033594
Will do. He's a pretty cool guy and well educated on shit.

>we should just convince our governments to ignore that kind of idiocy
I don't think this is possible with how things currently are. Governments are more concerned over appealing to demographics than the actual important issues. If Trump actually does win the next election, I sure hope he can fix more than prime minister weed lmao is doing to ruin our country.

Godspeed, burgerbro.
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>>61034628
Good night, maplebro
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>>61014125
this
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>>61012901
DUDE is tis chick the real Hermione? Smh
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>>61012901
>gender is a social construct
Have you ever dissected a body? Gender is clear. Mental illness doesnt show up in those cases.
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>>61012901
The legitimate right wing argument is as follows:
>You can't have it both ways.

Why?
Because leftists say the following regarding the following two issues
On Transgenderism:
>They were born with the wrong brain
On Feminism
>We're all the same gender roles should be abolished.

You can't hold both of those points. Either gender roles exist from our brains and transgender is real, or gender does not exist and transgenders are not born with the wrong brain.
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>>61012901
>supports muslims who are actively working to change the identity of your country to a massively anti-woman, anti-homosexual, anti-transgender, anti-intellectual sharia law zone
>complains that "right-wingers" have opinions
LIBLUBE CULTISTS EVERYONE
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>>61017849
THIS
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>>61021421
It's like having down syndrome in your sex chromosomes, not in your 23 chromosome
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>>61012901
Not playing into delusions. You are ultimately what you are and feelings play no part. I'm for people mutilating themselves should they so choose insofar as they recognize what it is they are in the end. If you transition, you are faking just as much as a woman who gets a boob job. It's fake.
They are in large part schizophrenics left unbound by lack cultural and self understanding and because such, in need of mental care and therapy.
I don't hate them, I pity them for what so called 'progressive' ideals have made of them. For a long time I was plagued by suicidal thoughts, but being sensible I didn't accept them as right. I fought them and came to know myself better, grow as a person, and appreciate who I am.
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>>61015050
>Masculinity and feminity are arbitrarily defined.

You keep saying that over and over. Proof?
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>>61015317
>There's nothing wrong with being transgendered. People can choose their own gender and society should be in submission to that

Why are we treating with this obvious fucking troll
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