If humans are meant to eat meat then why are the top causes of death predominantly caused by consumption of animal products in developed countries?
Vegans: 2, Carnists: 0
>plants have feelings too
>circle of life though
>what would we do with all the animals?
>God says it's okay
Human are meant to eat meat because we are omnivores with teeth specifically for eating both meat and vegtables.
>People with brains: 1
>Implying that water contamination and eating fish are somehow the same thing, as if for tens of thousands of years prior to industrialization it wasn't serving human needs
"b-b-but there's mercury!" Yeah you got me anons. Vegan is king because of a century of metal poisoning. Whoo!
domestic pigs and cattle
>domesticated for the purpose of breeding for food
>wolf domesticated for labour, defensive purposes and hunting
Slitting throat of an animal is not a humane killing because animal suffers from it.
That's why in Poland we outlawed ritual slaughter practiced by kikes and goatfuckers.
Entirely down to human pollution of the oceans and doesn't reflect natural healthy consumption of fish in pre-industrial times and doesn't bear true in freshwater-exclusive fish (ie ones that don't migrate upstream from the ocean)
I had a dream that someone was breeding mass quantities of amblyomma americanum and releasing them in public places. Sure would be awful if someone did that in real life.
>implying isotopes didn't give Spiderman and Hulk their powers
I eat tuna pretty much every day and am shredded bruh. Great source of protein and I think the radiation helps my lifts.
It is harsh, yes. Cruel? Yes. But this is what happens when the human population is too high and their high demands for meat. Could it be better? Absolutely. But this is the quickest and least costly way of delivering it from the slaughter houses into your home.
If a majority of the population went vegan this could be drastically reduces but we don't live in such a world. So this is how it must be.
These are perhaps the worst strawman comics I have ever seen.
>confusing culinary practices with the principles of eating meat
Wow OP is bad. You do know that a lot of weird recipes are just the result of people not wanting to just eat the same stew every day, right?
Imagine someone made a comic talking about all the environmental damage associated with veganism from top to bottom, and how stupid that would be. If you don't want to eat meat it's your life, but if you try and stop omnivores from eating it well...
...humans are meat. ;)
Bitch calm your little gyno tits you little cunts. Yeah it was healty to eat fish now it's not anymore, where the fuck did I said I was sucking cucumber. Focus you adhd faggots, focus. Such lust for replies.
>stop being whiny bitches
>Civilization allows you to live to be 100 by eating a plentiful supply of food
>As a result, people die because of things like heart disease and cancer
>instead of having a life expectancy of 30 and dying of any number of diseases or predators or freezing to death in nature
Leftists are mentally ill and sociopaths.
They project their own insecurities on to others.
They hate guns because they don't trust them selves with them, ergo they are incapable of trusting others.
the longest living people eat vegan or almost vegan (blue zones)
but it's not only about number of years but also quality of life. modern medicine is good at keeping wrecks alive but preventing strokes, heart attacks etc is better
I've seen old people and how they live. I'd rather eat delicious red meat a few times a week and die in my 60s or early 70s than subsist on tree bark and sand until I'm senile at 80 and dead at 90.
You only live once so you may as well live.
But you can also consciously not change them, and that seems a lot better
I rather doubt that, given that you feel compelled to whine about it on an imageboard on 4chan. Not even /ck/ or some place where people might actually be stupid enough to believe you, but on /pol/, a place totally immune to your bullshit.
i heard the more the animal suffers the better it tastes
>If humans are meant to eat meat then why are the top causes of death predominantly caused by consumption of animal products in developed countries?
Check the correlation between death and water consumption faggot
>youtube as a proof
>Vegans can't understand the difference between eating a pet dog and an animal bred for consumption
>Vegans can't understand that violence isn't the goal when eating meat
This is the slippery slope from telling people that niggers are human
>carnivorous animals that only eat certain animals are confused that animals are carnivorous but only eat certain animals
>If humans are meant to eat meat then why are the top causes of death predominantly caused by consumption of animal products in developed countries?
thats wrong though. most problems are caused by excess grains and high glycemic carbs. fats and real meats are healthy as fuck.
dairy is fucking poison and processed meats are no good. even excess fruit is shit for you. vegetables are mostly ok in any amount.
We should eat meat because it's good for our bodies and they'd do the same if they were stronger. Replace every animal with a lion, do you think they'd be all ''Aw, they have feelings. leave em alone.''
No. It's nature.
>not what a non lowlife would say
Now you see, here I am being polite and accepting of you pursuing your lifestyle choice even though I disagree with you and you have to start throwing out the insults. This is why people don't like vegans; you're all so intolerant and judgmental.
There is no getting around the fact that this
>plants have feelings too
isn't what anyone ever says with arguing with a vegan. What they're saying is, plants are living things, too. You're not against the killing of living things, you're against the killing of warm-blooded mammals because you find it a whole lot easier to get offended by slaughter of a cow or pig than by a fish or amphibian or insect.
If we advocate for eliminating the needless taking of all living things' lives, then that's an argument that makes sense. Unfortunately, it leaves us with very little options as far as what we can and cannot eat.
I personally can't stomach slaughterhouse footage or anything relating to animal abuse, it makes me sick to my stomach and fills me with rage.
I also eat meat.
There is no contradiction like these retarded comics assert. I enjoy the taste of meat and I also do not enjoy seeing animals abused. You can raise animals to be slaughtered in good, humane conditions.
We've done it for centuries.
>I personally can't stomach slaughterhouse footage or anything relating to animal abuse, it makes me sick to my stomach and fills me with rage.
>I also eat meat.
As a meat lover and chef, can I tell you that you are the worst kind of faggot and deserve to be gassed?
>not slaughtering a beast with your grandfather on your tenth birthday so he can explain where meat comes from
Literally kill yourself.
exactly. if you're against causing harm to living organisms, then you should abstain from eating roots and leaves, and arguably could only eat some fruits...
if the only reason you're taking offense to an omnivore diet is because you're a self righteous prick who can't see you're base your morals on anthropomorphism, there ain't much we can do to help you.
Spain has been at the top of the life expectancy chart (2 or 3) and we eat a shitload of cured meat( chorizo, black pudding etc) And less than 5% of the population is vegetarian.
Yeah fuck off with your veggy propaganda, eating green won't make you live longer.
Most of people here will never experience their first chicken slaughter.
For any non-slavs here, first one is the most amusing one because you have no idea what you're doing and the headless chicken runs around the yard, splattering blood all over the place. Mine made bloody modern art piece when it hit the fence.
>>tfw i am 6'1" pushing 190 pounds.
If you're not talking about your bench press you are malnourished and/or delusional.
Animals may well suffer, but they are animals and we hold no moral obligations to them, not even empathy.
On the other hand, i would admit that if you are not prepared to slaughter and gut your own meat and have never done it, you have no moral right to eat meat.
Pic related: A vegan in the wild.
No idea what you're trying to say here. If you want to be vegan, that's fine with me and I'm not going to judge you for it, I'm just not going to eat your food.
Personally, I enjoy eating meat. I feel no guilt about eating an animal that was raised solely to become food. I grew up on a farm and have killed animals for slaughter.
It's okay if you want to pretend that you hold some moral high ground based on your diet. I don't mind.
you fags would claim that taking dicks up your ass is aryan just to justify your yuppie hipster shit.
life consumes life to perpetuate itself, be it animal or vegetal. if you can't deal with that, you're just a pussy.
I'm not an expert on this field, but why can't we just wait until they die of old age and then take half and use it for human consumption and let the other half rot into the ground to create the fertilizer for new plants, vegetables, and so on?
Cows can't possibly live that goddamn long.
>As a meat lover and chef, can I tell you that you are the worst kind of faggot and deserve to be gassed?
This is how most people are, I am just simply being honest about it. Most people like and eat meat and also don't like seeing animals abused.
For example, if someone did psychotically tear apart the goat you were going to eat that night with a knife like illustrated in those comics, you'd lose your appetite and wouldn't eat it.
Out of sight, out of mind.
Now, if the thing was slaughtered quickly and without suffering, we'd still eat the meat, just like we've done for centuries.
Again, most people are exactly like me: Like meat, don't like seeing animal abuse. I'm just being honest about it.
>and arguably could only eat some fruits...
And this type of diet would probably cause all sorts of health complications.
>Spain has been at the top of the life expectancy chart (2 or 3) and we eat a shitload of cured meat( chorizo, black pudding etc) And less than 5% of the population is vegetarian.
It's not only the diet, also the habit of resting after sleeping.
Northern Europeans just can't grasp the concept behind siesta.
Greentexting carnist arguments aren't going to make them wrong. You are unable to refute them.
If the majority of people were vegans then the population of livestock would significantly decrease. They meet the demand.
But what do you do after you hit them with a mallet? You slit the throat and let them bleed out.
I was shocked desu. The trick is to tie them upside down from a tree. At least that's what I do with turkeys.
>Cows can't possibly live that goddamn long.
They generally live 15-25 years but even though we kill them young, it still takes an insane amount of land to raise them and the crops to feed them. In fact, that is the leading cause of environmental destruction. What you are suggesting would be taking an already unsustainable practice and making it even less sustainable.
How's it feel being the same as everyone else? Perfectly normal. Also, your insults don't make any sense. I never said all meat comes from these types of slaughterhouses and eating meat doesn't directly contribute to them. There are plenty of ways to obtain meat without buying from known corporations who keep animals in those conditions.
>Slitting throat of an animal is not a humane killing because animal suffers from it.
Jesus Christ i think German faggotry is rubbing off...
pick one. If you go and t reat animals like humans it shows how much of a human you onsider yourself to be. You don't have to torture them for no reason but you also don't have to treat them humanely.
For example, it is perfectly acceptable to kick a small dog or cat out of your yard for shitting on it, while it would be completely unacceptable if it were your neighbour's kid.
of course we slit the throat and let it hang after
the killing process is still just wacking them on the head whit a mallet
they're legs just collapse ,its real funny
We aren't related to Gorillas and Pandas though
We're what, 4% genetic difference from Chimpanzees?
>also don't like seeing animals abused
Animal abuse is a terrible thing. Also, stress from the slaughtering process degrades meat quality.
There are entire journals more or less devoted to methods of reducing stress/suffering as it is in the economic interests of the meat industry.
>For example, if someone did psychotically tear apart the goat you were going to eat that night with a knife like illustrated in those comics, you'd lose your appetite and wouldn't eat it.
Depends how hungry I was. I would think of it as needless cruelty and that does provoke a moral reaction to me.
>Out of sight, out of mind.
Exactly, you want to do a thing and don't want to take responsibility for what that entails.
This was the whole thrust of my post.
I have vegan friends I respect far more than I do you. At least they into personal responsibility and the outcomes of their choices.
>Again, most people are exactly like me
Maybe in the US, but then again, most people are fucking retarded.
>but it's not only about number of years but also quality of life.
Your life is going to be much higher quality if you eat some meat along the way, giving you energy, and a sex drive
Panda were former omnivores that switched to eating plants exclusively due to evolutionary pressures.
Their digestive systems are so inefficient at possessing a purely vegetarian diet that they would likely already be extinct without human intervention.
A great metaphor for vegans.
PREKO VODE DO SLOBODE
Just because I like some animals doesn't mean I have to like all animals and treat them the same.
I can pet a dog and smash a mosquito. Nothing weird here.
As usual, leftists have abstract reasoning. All animals have to be some abstract unique concept of animal.
This is how they use logic, by abstracting details when it helps their idea and agenda.
Too bad you can abstract any details and have a lot of different reasoning, it doesn't mean that make so much sense.
I guess this is somewhat a byproduct of our era of pure science and mathematics. People got the abstract tools but didn't understand what to do with them.
Those cartoons were fucking funny though, thanks op.
>doesnt know how to do research
Mass-produced pigs get a pneumatic rod into their brain, instead of a mallet. Same process goes afterwards. The rod can fail sometimes, leading to slaughter of pigs that are still conscious.
It's not suffering if it's unconscious. That's why you smack it with a mallet, to make sure it doesn't suffer.
this is now a GET thread
fuck you vegans
>Exactly, you want to do a thing and don't want to take responsibility for what that entails.
You totally ignored the fact that I NEVER SAID that the ONLY way to obtain meat was by buying it from some evil corporation who keeps animals in those conditions. I was pointing out that YES PEOPLE LIKE MEAT and NO PEOPLE DONT LIKE ANIMAL ABUSE and these two things are not mutually exclusive.
If that were the ONLY WAY, then yes, I would not eat meat.
But it isn't, I can just go a little south and get it where all the country assholes get it: from the woods with their rifles or from their farms that they own.
You're baiting the hell out of this thread but it's fun so I'll keep biting. Chickens don't suffer when you chop their heads off, the brain dies pretty quickly. What's funny is that the headless body will run like hell while spraying blood out of the neck. It's really something to see.
And I don't hate you. I simply think your narrow-minded, self-centered, and judgmental. And that's fine. You go on being vegan. Hell, continue to be smug about it, that's cool too.
What if I own a farm?
Cows need milked to live, why let that go to waste?
I can't afford to have every chicken that comes from every egg. so again, why let that go to waste?
And the pigs? They taste good.
not only are they in pain from having their throat slit, but they are also in pain from receiving a blow to the head
good job serbs, you're on the level of chinks who cook their dog alive
Like hows it feel that they had all their top scientists in labcoats doing research and checked all the stats twice over and found that the best way to market meat... to you... was to hide all notion of it being a dead animal by wrapping it in colorful packaging with little cartoon farms and happy smiley sun print all over it and write words like 'organic' and 'sustainably farmed' 'freerange' to try and lessen the blow to your humongous ego if your brain slips up for one second at the dinner table and you realize that what it is you're eating had to die somehow, though it didn't want to, it wanted to go on living but you killed it... but you did a good thing because these aren't battery hens.
I personally enjoy meat, and I think it's a great novel and nutritional substance. I've been buying veggie dogs and tofu burgers lately, though. I wish everyone could just eat plants and live, but it's not that simple. We crave a lot of Umami flavor, and a lot of it comes from meat.
Your body needs these things, it's why we're omnivorous, because there is things in plants we need too.
Gorillas actually do eat meat in the wild, and Pandas subsist on a plant that makes them ill and are a retard animal.
are you implying you guys dont do klanje?
are you this much of a pansy?
>Like hows it feel
Again, perfectly normal.
>though it didn't want to, it wanted to go on living
Plants are living things, too as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread.
Again, for me personally, it's about if the animal was dead before it even knew what was happening. If that's the case, fine, eat the goddamn meat, I don't give a shit.
If you're buying it from some fucked up corporation who abuses them before slaughter, stop doing that shit.
How's it feel knowing an animal died? Horrible. How's it know it didn't go to waste because it fed me? Perfectly normal.
How's it feel for you taking the lives of all those plants?
Sure, but don't act like we wouldn't just have people a few decades later demonizing vegans and pushing for literal mass human death in order to stop hurting vegetables. We already have those people. We don't need to legitimize them by undermining the realities of constant struggle even more than we have.
I'm vegan and have a much higher sex drive than most people. Furthermore, vegan men are in high demand in the activist community. Plenty of vegan women who just want to fuck a guy who cares about animal rights.
>though it didn't want to, it wanted to go on living but you killed it...
only humans are capable of desire
all this "animals just want to live in peace and not be eaten" shit is becoming boring
animals don't want anything they just kinda live until they die
Shit son, all meat here is grass fed and free range (with some grain finished), except for pork which can't really into too much sunlight, especially this close to muh ozone hole.
We also have strong animal cruelty and suffering laws surrounding slaughtering.
CAFOs a shit, factory farming a shit, but neither of these relate to slaughter stress.
And if more people in your country were honest about where their meat came from, you would probably have similar laws.
I would also say hunting provokes vastly more suffering in an animal than all but the most barbaric forms of conventional livestock slaughter.
>captive bolt to stun the animal
>let it slowly bleed out to schumpter
>Chasing a wounded deer until it collapses from blood loss or exhaustion
Still not against hunting either.
>killing a rooster
>being an agent of the matriarchy
Nah, Stipe, they die from blood loss before they regain consciousness. They might not even feel the mallet, for all we know.
You can stop projecting your memories from Krajina now, we know you slaughtered those old people like a champ.
>Plants are living things too!
This is the most retarded argument people could possibly reach for, but keep posting it, I get a kick out of it
>If you're buying it from some fucked up corporation who abuses them before slaughter, stop doing that shit.
...Which is what 99% of people do because it's the cheapest option.
>How's it know it didn't go to waste because it fed me?
Do you think it cares?
Because it's a fucking stupid question. You want to know the reason? It's because animals have central processing and an evolutionary need to "suffer" in order to survive. Plants do not have either of those 2 things.
VI STE NASA SRPSKA GARDA
its called kolinje, and we do have it
we just don't dance around the corpse laughing as we hack it to pieces with sharpened stones like cavemen
my point was that no matter what you say to rationalize it, when you kill an animal you are taking a life and we should be respectful of that and not forget it
Only the extremely stupid or trolls try to argue that plants can feel pain. Even if you could demonstrate evidence of plant suffering, vegans require less plants to be harvested to sustain themselves than carnists. Livestock require far more plants than we do.
Try using your brain before spouting off these brainwashed idiotic questions.
>Plenty of vegan women who just want to fuck a guy who cares about animal rights.
Really? You have to give up meat to get laid by some trendy lesbian dreadlocked thespian?
>Furthermore, vegan men are in high demand in the activist community
Yeah, vegan "men" are welcome to sex up the activist community as much as they want. The rest of us call that "bottom feeding"
>he cares what animals that were literally bred for human consumption think and feel
what makes a cow suffer more than a mango being ripped off from it's life source? that's like ripping testicles off a man and eating it, except the testicles are alive, too. fucking vegan murderers. end plant murder.
It means you need to learn more about what suffering actually is before you ask dumb questions and draw comparisons between the treatment of beings which can suffer to beings which cannot suffer.
>vegan food pyramid has supplements
>animal products are used in way more than just food
>calling other people "thrid worlders"
pic related is a group of average newzealanders
>This is the most retarded argument people could possibly reach for, but keep posting it, I get a kick out of it
They are. You're not against the taking of life FOR YOUR OWN SELFISH NEED TO EAT FOOD TO SURVIVE, you're against the needless suffering of animals. I'm against that, too.
>...Which is what 99% of people do because it's the cheapest option.
And you think they deserve to be gassed and you're morally superior to them. Bravo.
>Do you think it cares?
I think it has the brain the size of a goddamn walnut and doesn't care about anything except eating and fucking.
Again, just be honest and say that you have ZERO PROBLEM with the taking of life because you do it every time you eat a plant.
I dated a 9/10 chick years ago. I still have no idea what she found attractive in me.
Anyway, she was so annoying with her vegan bullshit that I had to dump her. Sex was amazing, but listening to that crap all day just wasn't worth it.
We just let the kebab pass into Europe these days. They bombed us for removing, soon they'll beg us to remove once more.
>Really? You have to give up meat to get laid
Nope, it merely increases my options. I still have sex with non-vegans as well, although I'll admit I don't make any effort to meet non-vegan women anymore.
>And you think they deserve to be gassed and you're morally superior to them. Bravo.
Nice projecting. I just want people to be more aware of what they're eating.
>ZERO PROBLEM with the taking of life because you do it every time you eat a plant.
Thats... true? Never disputed that. Plants are alive, animals are alive, but conflating the two is the hallmark of the uneducated or averse.
That comic doesn't make any sense. It's not even illegal to kill your own animals, let alone eat them.
Only thing relating to eating dogs that's illegal is selling the meat, it's still perfectly fine to raise dogs/cats for personal consumption in the US.
>implying you can't easily obtain all 9 essential amino acids in a plant based diet.
Why the fuck are people still trying to use the protein argument? It's literally the dumbest argument after the "plants feel pain too" bit.
Good for you, vegan women need love too. Personally, I like women with a little more muscle.
so the vegan dream is a world full of synthetic food where nobody suffers?
that's literally the exact opposite of how life struggles and stives to stay alive.
suffering is also a very fucking human concept. you're still extinguishing lives, even if they do or do not suffer the way you do.
also, it's not eating meat per se that's fucking the ecosystem. it's eating meat 3 times a day like a burgerlard in a capitalistic society.
>torturing animals instead of killing them quickly and efficiently is somehow the cheapest option
The blood is a valuable resource so they designed the captive bolt gun to stun the animal, but leave them alive so their heart will continue to pump. This is desirable because it allows them to bleed the animal faster when they hang it upside down and slit it's throat.
>but conflating the two is the hallmark of the uneducated or averse
I was trying to get you to admit you do not give a fiddler's fuck about the taking of life to suit your needs, you only care about the suffering of animals for no reason. I'm against that, too.
You also literally said I was the worst kind of faggot who needs to be gassed not that long ago. Unless that was a different Kiwi, there aren't that many of you here.
>top causes of death
Like cardiovascular disease, smoking, and traffic accidents? Even if you argue the first one is direct result of consuming animal products, eating margerine gets you there quicker than pork fat.
AJDE TRAKTORASI BRMBRMBRMBRMBRMBRM
>And you think they deserve to be gassed and you're morally superior to them
That was me. And yes, in this instance I do.
They blunder through life seeking short term benefit without having the first inkling of what they are doing, perpetuating suffering for base reasons of minor savings.
Also, you do realize that I support humane meat eating and the minimization of suffering right?
Because it's really easy to get your essential amino acids on a diet that includes meat. Vegans, on the other hand, have to pay much closer attention to what they eat on a daily basis. The vegan diet is ridiculously high maintenance.
I could maybe see the logic of vegetarians, from a moral perspective. But being vegan makes no fucking sense.
What's wrong with eating unfertilized chicken eggs? After the chicken lays it, that's it, it'll just rot. Why let it go to waste instead of eating it?
I dunno, maybe it is because your precious "developed" countries forgot that good nutrition is taught at home, and not in schools?
I dont really care about vegetarians, they are mostly alright, but vegans are just unreasonable.
And seriously, I could care less if you just want to eat plants, just don´t try to force your stupid ass beliefs on me. I have as much right to eat meat as you do to not eat it.
I have personally turned 4 ex gf vegetarians onto the path of righteous flesh consumption.
I have fucked a couple of vegan chicks too, but desu they got boring really fast. And they had no cardio to keep up with me.
You can have those options bro. No one is begrudging you that. We just find it a little funny you would skite about it.
>Vegans, on the other hand, have to pay much closer attention to what they eat on a daily basis. The vegan diet is ridiculously high maintenance.
This is false though. You've obviously never even tried. All you have to do is eat a wide variety of things and don't eat only fruit, pasta, oreos, and cereal. It's not fucking rocket science. You are far more likely to end up with a chronic health condition from a standard diet than you are on a vegan diet.
That's because vegetariains are fucking dipshits who only pretend to care about animals. Vegans are the only one's who get it and even then, most of them are just as brainwashed as the average carnist and have no deep understanding of their own beliefs.
>Spit that blue-pill, you monkey. Vegans are responsible for famine in the world.
Vegans are, I meant vegetarians. At least they agree to let us raise cows and chickens for milk and eggs.
Have you never watched any of these animal abuse films being posted? Too scared to click the links?
I'll break it down for you.
The cheapest option for farming eggs is to pack hens into literally the smallest cage possible, with a feeding tube / water tube, in a gigantic dark warehouse full of 10,000 other hens in small cages.
The cheapest option for killing chickens, right, is to have all the hens locked upside down into a belt which takes them around the factory and eventually reaches a sawblade which they whizz over, cutting them at the neck, usually not all the way, mangling them from the neck up and leaving them to die by bleeding out.
The cheapest way to raise pigs is to lock the mother into a space where she can't even move with her teats exposed so the piglets can feed.
The cheapest 'humane' way to kill large mammals is to electrify them multiple times before bashing them to death.
It's not just about how they're killed, it's about how they're treated when they're alive.
I was never big on the protein powder thing so I ate more eggs and meat. But then I was never a juicer so I didn't need that much extra.
Ate meat, lifted, ran. These days I'm old and have a fucked up knee so I replaced the running with a good single malt scotch whiskey.
That was a different kiwi. There are actually quite a lot of kiwi shiteposters m8
>only care about the suffering of animals for no reason
I can't think of any valid reason for the suffering of animals.
>correlation with eating meat and diseases
>99% of people living in Modern society eat meat
>Vegans tend to be obsessive over health
>make bullshit study in developed country
>whoah our health obsessed sample who is practicing 26 fad diets at the same time, never smoke and drink and do Cross-fit everyday is somehow more healthy than the average!
>I have personally turned 4 ex gf vegetarians onto the path of righteous flesh consumption.
Had a vegetarian gf that finally gave in to the gateway meat: bacon. That was all it took.
Capcha: Select all images of steak
I'll probably transition to synthetic meat after 5-10 years and they work out all the cancerous parts. I don't see any reason to avoid lab grown chicken breasts and whatnot, then let the real animals go.
Not that there aren't already bush pigs and pheasants and stuff but I wouldn't expect a vegan to know much about natural wildlife.
>It's not just about how they're killed, it's about how they're treated when they're alive
This, I even eat meat myself but I'm not denying that the life for the animals in the industrial food production facilities is really terrible. How they die isn't really even that important, facing a brutal death is pretty common in nature. What happens before death is what's important, having to face couple of hours or days of pain before dying isn't that bad if you had a good life before it.
>I am going to destroy entire ecosystems to have millions of farms, destroying millions of animals, and I will have them killed when the time of harvest comes, since the progress accidentally kills quite a few of 'em.
>All of this, so I can fee superior and free of animal murder
I have a friend who has been vegetarian since 4 years old and still is.
His wife isn't, and he also has a smoker at home and really knows his shit.
Like he has taught me a thing or two about smoking meats.
>bred for the express purpose of later being killed?
Do you think that makes it ok, or changes anything for the animals locked away?
>Nah it's ok you were born for this torturous life anyway
I don't see how anyone could think like that, I think it would make you not a whole person.
>eat dogs and cats are because they're predators, and they're famously horrible meat.
Tell that to Asia.
>i don't want animals to suffer
>i eat plants instead
>they're alive but don't suffer
>also if i eat animals they actually eat more plants than me
>s-so that would be that i make the world suffer more!
>so much suffering!
would you eat an animal that's already dead for natural causes? why don't you?
why don't you drink milk or eat cheese, excluding the shitty industrial process reasons?
how do you cope with the fact that everything you do would be considered an evolutionary dead end by life standards?
how do you cope with the fact that your hipster choice is just a fruit of the comfort of the same capitalistic society you try to boycott?
why do you force vegan shit on your pets and kids?
Two sides of the same coin mate :^)
why the fuck would I care about chickens?
chickens are practically moving plants as far as their ability to perceive the world around them goes
and most of what you're talking about is only true for giant companies who get huge subsidies from the state for producing enough burgers for fag amerilards
>why the fuck would I care
Nobody expects you to care about anything but day to day survival, third worlder. Please be quiet while the adults talk.
>giant companies who get huge subsidies from the state for producing enough burgers for fag amerilards
.........................Which is what 99% of people buy because it's the cheapest option.
Which Animals do we keep locked away in cages?
That's it. And there are always free range alternatives here.
How does facing starvation, predators and parasites imply more suffering than calmly living in a paddock with medical attention, enough to drink and enough to eat while being surrounded entirely by your own kind?
All this shit about suffering is getting boring.
Life is suffering.
well, yea. historically fish wasn't considered meat, but I'd imagine someone who has so many ethical principles on what they do and don't eat, would base them on something more science-related
Here's the story of a vegan that was very sickly and misteriously felt well after eating meat.
What a dramatic turn of events.
We truly don't need meat.
I was thinking that to. That all these animals would just die off. That being said, we've been surprised from time to time historically by what a few runaway farm animals can achieve in a habitat that isn't adjusted to them. We might release farm chickens into the wild to make some other species extinct. LOL
Animals are beneath us anyway, whatever attachment people form to their pets is one of property, same as a person would care for their car.
If an animal is created specifically to later be killed and eaten, why should we care at all about the quality of its life? Animals aren't even sapient, they aren't intrinsically worth as much as even the lowest of humans, though they may be worth more monetarily.
>why the fuck would I care about chickens?
Because it make you a trendy contrarian who can feel good and morally superior while shouting bullshit and bolster you self confidence in that way and inflate you ego.
And nobody can call you out because you just to say "it's not for me it's for the animals".
>.........................Which is what 99% of people buy because it's the cheapest option.
because they get subsidies from the state allowing them to maintain low prices and an inefficient system
I don't expect you to wrap your little tattooed head around the idea that that if you want to fight something you should fight it at the source, but I encourage you to try
I meant suffering for the sake of suffering. There are plenty of wild animals out there suffering from the elements and hunger. Why are they suffering? Because they're wild fucking animals.
I meant suffering for no reason in a place in which there is no reason to suffer, like any modern farm today.
>Here's the story of a vegan that was very sickly and misteriously felt well after eating meat.
>Translation: Here is biased fabricated anecdotal "evidence" from an nonacademic source
INTO THE TRASH IT GOES
You are now aware that raw vegan WILL change your shit brown eyes to hazel
Here is the story of man who died of complications arising from alcohol withdrawals.
What a dramatic turn of events.
We truly all need to be drunk all the time.
[spoiler] though we know your unemployed ass already is [spoiler/]
>GOSH BUT WE ONLY DO IT TO THESE TWO SPECIES FUCK
We'd do it to all of them if it was feasible.
>there are always free range alternatives here.
Which the average person never buys because they want the cheapest meat possible
>How does facing starvation, predators and parasites imply more suffering than calmly living in a paddock with medical attention, enough to drink and enough to eat while being surrounded entirely by your own kind?
That's the exception, not the rule.
>1. they are beneath us, 2. pets are property
>Truisms are fun
Even without subsidies it would still be the cheapest method of farming.
then don't eat industrially processed meat.
i'm not even gonna bother asking you about eating an animal that was grass fed and bred like a fucking king, but what about its milk, dairy products or eggs?
i swear to god you guys keep getting more and more abstract with this suffering shit
is it true that you don't eat honey either?
>top causes of death predominantly caused by consumption of animal products in developed countries?
Packed full of hormones, pharmaceuticals, preservatives
It's not the meat, it's the amount eaten and what's in it.
>falling in love with your fuck puppets
This is why you guys elect people like Hollande, Jon Pierre. You gotta control that pussy son, and never give it power over you.
Clearly this is easier with sheep, but the same principle applies to women.
Me and the Kiwis were arguing the "eating meat is wrong because it's wrong to take life to suit your selfish human needs" meme which then makes the vegans wrong, too since they're taking the life of living plants to suit their selfish human need to eat food.
You're the one getting abstract with the non-living milk and honey and eggs and shit.
Well sure, we can exclude suffering we can't (currently) do much about.
>milk, dairy products or eggs
Cattle farmed for milk / dairy products are also farmed for meat, as are battery hens farmed for eggs.
>Wonderland industries where our cows have fantastic quality lives, are given hugs every day, and die by natural means!
Besides being economically unfeasible there are still so many questions to ask that you might as well just rule out eggs and dairy from your diet and be 100% sure you're not contributing to suffering that you're unaware of.
>Even without subsidies it would still be the cheapest method of farming.
if there were no subsidies than the companies producing mass amounts of shit meat would have to engage in market competition with the free range meat.
you said yourself that most people recognize that free range grown meat is better than the industrial shit in every way, so if the difference in prices wasn't so insanely high, its not unreasonable to assume that most reasonable people would pay a slightly higher price to eat healthy
>Besides being economically unfeasible there are still so many questions to ask that you might as well just rule out eggs and dairy from your diet and be 100% sure you're not contributing to suffering that you're unaware of.
Or you can eat eggs and dairy in moderation and not obsess about whether the chickens and cows are leading fully realized lives.
Dairy cows are repeatedly impregnated without their consent. Their male children are typically discarded or slaughtered for veal. Dairy cows themselves are typically killed at around the age of 4 when their milk production begins to significantly decrease. They normally live until 15-25.
>Implying the Fire isn't rising in France
Next election we're going full reich because of the terrorism.
Prepare the shish kebab pikes.
Also how many proxies do you have?
You're changing ID like not tomorrow, Dynamic IP?
>You're the one getting abstract with the non-living milk and honey and eggs and shit.
all you speak of is against industrialization, not against eating animal products.
you really think it's easier to convince the average joe that it's better not to eat animal products at all instead of educating him on sustainability?
>you really think it's easier to convince the average joe that it's better not to eat animal products at all instead of educating him on sustainability?
Animal agriculture is not sustainable no matter how it is done. It always takes more food to feed the animals than the amount of food you get out of them.
>We'd do it to all of them if it was feasible.
Ummm, except every resource consent for indoor farming of beef or lamb has been struck down in the RMA consultation process...
>Which the average person never buys because they want the cheapest meat possible
Where do you even live bro? South AK somewhere? They wouldn't have it in the stores if no one bought it.
>That's the exception, not the rule.
Whut? A feral life implies far more suffering than a sedentary one, unless the farmer is an out and out psycho breaking tails for fun.
We have a relatively high degree of animal protection laws relative to nearly any other country. The meat tends to be safer than that raised in CAFOs or other factory farming practices.
I am starting to think you haven't ever left the big smoke m9.
>convincing Muslims captive bolt stunning was halal
>best day of my life
Assuming they wouldn't offset a lack of subsidies in the production process somehow, and they had to compete with free range, they still win out war of attrition style. It's much cheaper to pack 10,000 chickes into a single barn than it is to have them spread out over fields in the sun.
>most reasonable people would pay a slightly higher price to eat healthy
True, but how many people are reasonable, really? And how many people can afford to if there's a cheaper option?
even without industrialization (which is still very relevant, since that's the vast majority of the animal products consumed are come from factory factory farms) what are they going to do with the male children? They're not useful for milk. They're not the right breed for beef. They could raise it for beef, but they'd have to cut off it's horns and/or confine it. Neither of those are ethical.
Furthermore, even if you had a bunch of small farms where livestock are raised in ideal (but still unethical) conditions, that would require more land and more resources overall. You would be taking an already unsustainable practice and making it even less sustainable. Animal agriculture is the top environmental threat already by a large margin.
Dude, stop being such a fucking pussy!
I killed pigs before, they scream like hell, did not stop me from eating the delicious barbecue I mad out of it.
Chickens too, I just rip their fucking heads off with my machete, They are delicious.
People who actually get put off just because they seen an animal get put down for us to eat are fucking weak cunts that have no place in this world.
>all you speak of is against industrialization, not against eating animal products.
I'm not necessarily against eating animal products. I'm against animal suffering.
>you really think it's easier to convince the average joe that it's better not to eat animal products at all instead of educating him on sustainability?
Why not both? I'm not saying people should go out and picket MEAT IS MURDER at supermarkets, I want to promote awareness of how meat is farmed, etcetera. Most people have had an intense amount of mental gymnastics programmed into them through society and don't consider the source of what they're eating at all.