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Trump vs Bernie
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You are currently reading a thread in /pol/ - Politically Incorrect

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I genuinely think this annoying Jew will win the nomination. NO ONE likes Hillary. Every day there are numerous articles that are anti-Hillary, even from leftist MSM.

Let's discuss what Bernie vs Trump would look like. As much as I like Trump, if people actually fall for this "free" shit, Hernie Panders may win.
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>>60987562
Trump will win every state except Vermont and New Hampshire if this is the matchup
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Bernie can win strong democrats as they're all mentally retarded, but people on the fence and slight liberals, won't be able to believe his crap when the entire media is fact checking and obliterating him.
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>>60987562
I think you're right and I hope you're right. Even if you don't like Bernie, I don't see how you could prefer Hillary over him. If you trust the polls as they stand, Bernie beats Trump by a wider margin than Hillary beats Trump. They both still beat Trump though. Any number of things could happen from now until election time though and polls don't always capture everything (remember Ron Paul winning a surprising number of delegates despite the polls saying otherwise).
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>>60988831
But it is Bernie or Trump at that point, Liberal media will schill for Bernie because that will be their only logical option. Media can't shift right at this point or they will look retarded to any still paying attention.
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Bernie's not a real candidate, he's just there to distract the far left so they don't field a serious challenger to Queen Hillary

He's going to drop out halfway through the primaries for health reasons or to spend more time with his family or something, and all his supporters will have no choice but to accept Hillary
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>>60988973
Well at this point hillary is offering all the free shit he is just to keep up... He may be retarded and know nothing about economics but at least he believes it the drivel he spews
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>>60989356
And yet Bernie is beating Hillary in a lot of important polls.

>He's going to drop out halfway through the primaries for health reasons or to spend more time with his family or something, and all his supporters will have no choice but to accept Hillary

Maybe in your fantasies
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>>60989356
That would be suicide for her though... Winning the primary because she's the "only choice" would make her look so weak
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>>60989356
>Bernie's not a real candidate

I used to think this too, but imagine this: how much support we give Trump on this site, it's arguably just as much for Bernie on reddit and social media, and as ridiculous as that sounds, it still resonates with some people.
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>>60987562
Hernie will need a miracle to win the nomination because Hillary has all but one of the super delegates.

The democrat establishment is cucking them out of the person the people want, which the Republicans are trying and failing to do as well.

Bernie at least is genuine, which is far more than I can say for Hillary the snek.
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You're delusional if you think Trump would beat Bernie in a general election. Hillary will be Bernie's biggest obstacle, if he beats her, he is the next president. Trump only attracts the biggest right wingers, he has alienated moderate Republicans. Independent voters love Bernie, I mean, ffs, he was an independent before this election. Also, have you forgotten how important minority voters are? If Trump is the nominee, they will all be sure to vote against him, in order to protect their constitutional rights. Unfortunately I still think Hillary will be the next president, but my only consolation will be seeing this place and reddit losing their minds.
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the dnc is rigged for clinton to win, despite having ZERO support from anyone. (you can tell that they rigged the numbers on the media)
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>>60989556
>Well at this point hillary is offering all the free shit he is

She isn't actually. She's not in favor of tuition free college, guaranteed health insurance, paid family leave, and probably other things. She didn't succeed when she tried to paint Bernie as a radical so now she's just flat out lying by saying he wants to take away insurance. She hasn't changed her own watered-down progressive views.

>>60989651
Exactly, which is why I also think the superdelegate imbalance in favor of her won't amount to anything if Bernie wins most of the primaries. It would be a disaster for the dems if they handed the nomination to her despite Bernie winning the primaries.

>>60989732
Exactly. Trump and Bernie are the "anti-establishment" candidates who were never supposed to win but it turned out that basically no one trusts the establishment anymore, regardless of their political leanings.

>>60989821
>Hillary has all but one of the super delegates.
No she doesn't. She has about a third of the superdelegates. About half are undecided and the rest are committed to Sanders except one committed to O'Malley.

Like I said to the other anon, the dems would lose a huge portion of their support if they gave the nomination to anyone but the person who won the primaries.
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>>60989732

It seems like Bernie is a lot more popular than he is if you just look at Reddit and social media, because he's popular with young Democrats and they engage in a massive amount of shilling - you even see his shills here

But no, if you look at how he defended Hillary, his supposed opponent, in the debates, how old he actually is, how he confidently proposes things that get the left fired up but have zero chance of actually becoming law, it all comes together - he has no intention of actually trying to beat Hillary and become president

Hillary has had years to plot this campaign and I don't think asking an elderly colleague from the Senate to keep the far left distracted while she runs is beyond her
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>>60987562
Radical faggots on right vote for Trump
Radical faggots on left vote for Bernie

Sensible moderates on both sides unite under Jim Webb's independent campaign and he sweeps the election
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Bernie is a weak cuckold

Hillary is a self serving crook
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Yup
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>>60990352
>because he's popular with young Democrats
Which is one reason why he'll get the nomination if youth vote in the primaries.
>how he defended Hillary
Because he wanted to focus on policy
>how old he actually is
Only 6 years older the Hillary
> he has no intention of actually trying to beat Hillary and become president
asking an elderly colleague from the Senate to keep the far left distracted while she runs is beyond her
Interesting how he's leading in polls then.
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>>60987562
He's literally a communist, are you saying Americans are going to vote for a communist who uses language so complicated that most of them don't even understand or care what he has to say?
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>>60990575
He literally isn't a communist. Communism is characterized by worker's owning the means of production. That isn't anything close to Bernie's policy positions.

>uses language so complicated
You really have difficulty understanding what Bernie says?
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>>60989356
100% rather vote Trcuck than Shillary
feel the bern
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>>60990687
Communism is the state owning the means of production. Well, that's actually socialism, but it makes no difference because communism requires a state despite what red anarchists might want you to think.

And no, I don't have difficulty understanding what Bernie is saying. He's not saying anything, he's a sophist. Model socialist, really.
But you have to understand that I'm not the average voter.
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>>60991160
>Communism is the state owning the means of production.
No.
>Well, that's actually socialism
Yes.
>it makes no difference because communism requires a state despite what red anarchists might want you to think.
Whether or not communism is possible has nothing to do with whether or not there's an ideological distinction between communism and socialism.

>And no, I don't have difficulty understanding what Bernie is saying.
Then why did you previously say that hes hard to understand?
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>>60990555

Early on the polls overstate the popularity of radical candidates because voters haven't really started to think strategically yet

Once we have people actually about to go to the polls they'll realize that Bernie is another unelectable McGovern type and voting for him in the primaries is essentially voting for Trump - we're at the absolute peak for Bernie's poll numbers right now

>he wanted to focus on policy

He wanted to focus on something other than defeating Hillary - if he really wanted to win, he'd hit her where she was vulnerable, but he has literally fired his own staff members who tried to attack Hillary

Compare that to what Trump and the other GOP candidates are saying about each other, or how heated the 2008 Democratic primary got

Once it's too late for another far-left candidate to enter the race he'll bow out and all those idiot Redditors supporting Bernie will never admit how they got played
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>>60991312
The distinction is meaningless.

>Then why did you previously say that hes hard to understand?
Because he is. Sophistry requires well above average intelligence or years of indoctrination to take seriously. I sincerely doubt most of US voters are indoctrinated socialists. Even among indoctrinated people, the illusion is very fragile unless they are highly intelligent. Someone like Trump could dispel it in seconds among average/below average intelligence people, because he knows how to use language.
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Honestly I have heard him talking about shutting down the 1% Wallstreet banksters... Isn't he referring to Jews when he says this? Why does everyone think he's Jewish when he's out to bring them down.
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>>60991463
>Early on the polls overstate the popularity of radical candidates
That's what people have been saying since the beginning and yet Trump remains strong and Bernie is winning or diminishing Hillary's lead.
>Once we have people actually about to go to the polls they'll realize
You're speculating. Bernie's numbers have continued to rise. You sound like the people early on who were saying there's no possible way Trump's growing popularity could be anything but a fluke. People on all sides are sick of the establishment and Trump and Bernie will probably win the primaries as a result.
>he'd hit her where she was vulnerable
He refuses to go negative and always has refused and yet he's only lost one election in his life.

>>60991636
>The distinction is meaningless.
No it isn't. The words "government" and "workers" have different meanings and therefore the terms "government ownership" and "worker's ownership" have different meanings. This is true regardless of whether or not you think communism can exist. I assume you think that unicorns and centaurs can't exist either but I suspect you understand that there's a meaningful distinction between "unicorn" and "centaur."
>because he knows how to use language.
Which is literally what rhetoric is. You just acknowledged that Trump is convincing stupid people to agree with him based on his effective use of language and you're calling Bernie the sophist. lol

>>60991885
>Why does everyone think he's Jewish
Because being ethnically or religiously Jewish has no necessary connection to ideology.
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>>60991885

Why do you think he's out to bring his fellow Jews down when he absolutely is Jewish?

The Jews have been pulling this shit for over a century, controlling both the radicals and the establishment and telling you that you have to choose between them
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>>60992139
So the jews are so savage they betray their own kind out of greed? Holy fucking shit I got redpilled
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>>60992139
>>60992336
The most hilarious thing about anti-semites is how deluded and conspiratorial they are. Their views are unfalsifiable and therefore have no basis in evidence. If they had a basis in evidence, there would be an imaginable state of affairs in which the view could be proven wrong. This isn't possible though because anti-semites begin with the conclusion that Jews are evil and conspiratorial and interpret everything on that basis rather than working the other way around, building their beliefs on the evidence.
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>>60992121
>No it isn't. The words "government" and "workers" have different meanings and therefore the terms "government ownership" and "worker's ownership" have different meanings.
No shit, but you're arguing semantics for the sake of semantics. There is no point to what you're saying. Workers are collectively represented by the government in communism.

>Which is literally what rhetoric is. You just acknowledged that Trump is convincing stupid people to agree with him based on his effective use of language and you're calling Bernie the sophist. lol
Since you love semantics so much, why don't you look up the words rhetoric and sophistry in the dictionary? They don't mean the same thing, much like government and workers don't mean the same thing. In this case, the difference is actually relevant.
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desu i like trump better than bernie....but i have to give where credit is due is that bernie draws a lot of people although not as much as trump, and rallies is where people gets converted.....AND STAY CONVERTED.

look at trump for example, i follow his polls very closely....when the guy slacks off for holidays his number kinda dips because either people forget or try to fill their political appetite from some other candidate. when he makes good zingers his numbers rise slowly. when he uses jeb as a punching bag or get into conflict his numbers shoot straight up

ads dont work.... people fucking hate ads...so very annoying.. when i see stuff that bypass my ad filter i make a point to not buy the advertised item....
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>>60987562
Don't be silly, just because he's Jewish means that the powerful Jews would support him. No, the Jews want to plant Hilldog in the White House. Bernie here has policies that threaten the elites.

I'm still convinced he is controlled opposition.

In the end, I will vote Republican. Liberalism as a whole has lately done too many things I disagree with, fuck them.
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>>60987562
The election would be an absolute farce. A giant shit show full of dank memes. I don't know whether I'd love it or hate it.

I dont think either of them deserve it.
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>>60992638
>but you're arguing semantics for the sake of semantics.
No, I'm arguing semantics because you were the one to make the semantic point in the first place.
>Workers are collectively represented by the government in communism.
No they aren't. Workers are their own representatives in communism.

>They don't mean the same thing
Of course they don't, but they're closely related. Sophists take advantage of rhetoric to convince people irrespective of the truth.
>much like government and workers don't mean the same thing
I'm glad you finally agree.
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>>60987562
I hope Shillary goes down in flames, America is guaranteed be de-jewed by at least one level.
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>>60989356

Right, that's why he gets no media coverage. Brilliant.
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>>60992979
Nope, doesn't work like that. In communism, workers are represented by government. You can use a different term for it, like union, but it fundamentally makes no difference. Without the collective organization, it cannot work. Collective organization is the very foundation of the ideology.

>Of course they don't, but they're closely related. Sophists take advantage of rhetoric to convince people irrespective of the truth.
And guess what, Bernie isn't good at rhetoric. He is only good at sophistry. He is so fucking transparent that I can barely listen to him. He's horrible at this. I have no idea how some people are getting suckered by him. Perhaps I should watch his rally instead of his interviews, maybe he's better at that.

I mean fuck, he even loses to Hillary. He's probably just some crooked fuck hired by Hillary to make her look good.

>I'm glad you finally agree.
I never disagreed. Might want to read what you're replying to.
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I wont vote for him because of his stance on education. He wants to devalue bachelor degrees even more, and tax the country like 40 some billion in the first year to send people to college. No, the country shouldn't be taxed so someone can get a free degree in bullshit.
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>>60992121
Holy shit, next you'll be talking about surplus value.
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>>60993787
> In communism, workers are represented by government
That's socialism, not communism.
>Collective organization is the very foundation of the ideology.
Correct, which is different from a centralized government controlling production. This is a very easy distinction to understand and I suspect you already understand it but are being difficult for the sake of being difficult.

>And guess what, Bernie isn't good at rhetoric.
This was your original point, which is not only inconsistent with the fact that he's winning in a lot of polls but is also inconsistent with your claim that he's a sophist.

>I never disagreed.
Yes you did. You disagree in this very post as a matter of fact. You can't simultaneously believe that there's both a difference and no difference between socialism and communism. Again, this is very simple to understand and you either understand it and are just pretending to be retarded for some reason, or you actually are retarded. In either case, I'm not investing any more energy into talking to you.
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>>60987562

Trump would win by asking Bernie his thoughts on white guilt and other looney Leftist lies

The average person, who's white, will be so turned off from his anti-white views
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>>60994180
I could if you want me to. I hope you understand that there's a difference between understanding what communism is and being a fan of communism.
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>>60991885
Not all Jews are globalist kikes. That idiotic stormfag nonsense confuses the matter.
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>>60994259
I hope you understand Obamacare has increased premiums by +25% on average. I hope you understand Bernie helped draft the bill. I hope you understand the government is inefficient (check your DMV, fagt)
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>>60994528
How is any of that relevant to whether or not there's a difference between communism and socialism or a difference between knowing what communism is and supporting communism?
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>>60994598
>implying I don't know political theory
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>>60987562

Burnie would win all the swing states

I cant see trump doing very well against him
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>>60994650
I wasn't implying anything other that that your response indicates that you think there's some relevant connection to the things you list and the distinctions I mentioned, which there isn't.
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>>60989276
they will look just as unreasonable if they support Bernie Sanders, as they bombarded him throughout Hillary's campaign. They may have to go right desu senpai.
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>>60994528
>http://strawpoll.me/6536409/
I hope you understand you're full of shit.
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>>60989356
>people actually believe this
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>>60994731
>Marist poll
Marxist poll
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>>60990426

Fuck off SJW retard.
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>>60990426
Webb supporters still exist? I thought he was finally "ebbed"

>>60997555
Nice trips
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>>60993149

He gets the attention among people who would even give Bernie attention.
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>>60987562
Which one will First mention the Anti-Trust Problem?
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>>60999361
title
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>>60987562
Trump will flip as soon as he gets the nomination, he'll be another obama, straight in the middle populist and will get the votes while bernie is seen as crazy. After being elected he'll be as ineffectual as every other president over the past 20 years.
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>>60987562
Both are idiots but just in drastically different ways.

Bernie means well but seems not to understand logistics of many of the things he proposes.

Trump is crude, brash, and refreshingly anti political PC PR bullshit. But at the end of the day only really cares about himself. It is just that if he is responsible for doing things that the public agree with or do right by the country, that happens to make him look good and stroke his ego. At the end of the day it is all about him.
It is like a preview of Kane West run in 2020
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>>61000295

>this guy who's been a senator for 30 years means well but just doesn't understand what he's talking about

He knows what he's proposing is impossible and yet he's saying it anyway. Meaning, he doesn't mean well at all.
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