Fucking prove to me that wanting to be a girl is a mental illness, /pol/.
None of this "muh feels" or "degeneracy" or "'trans' is an abomination".
I don't give a fuck about your feelings. Empirically prove to me that wanting to be a girl is a mental illness or shut the fuck up.
If you just have fleeting/casual thoughts about it then it's no biggy. It's when you want to mutilate your body to try become something you're not that it becomes delusional mental illness, if not solely for the fact that you'll be dooming yourself to a lonely life of being a disgusting ugly outcast.
Can you empirically prove that it is?
You have brought absolutely zero proof outside of "I think something is wrong therefore it is". Actually say something meaningful or get the fuck out.
Men aren't women, by definition.
Therefore, a man who claims he is a woman is wrong, and must be delusional. He is making a factually false statement.
Therefore, transgenderism is a mental illness.
>You are not a grill.
>Choose to live like a grill.
>Literally choosing to turn your entire existence into a lie
>lying is wrong
>therefore the state of mind required to make this choice is wrong
>an illness is a "wrongness" of the body or mind
Trans is bad, mmkay.
saying lying is wrong is pretty subjective, people generally thinks its alright to lie if its for your own good as well.
This is just your upbringing in a christian society speaking.
Because capacity for reproduction is one of the basic conditions a healthy living organism needs to fulfill.
Seeing as your mind seems to get in the way of that, you're classified as mentally ill.
Can you tell me first what you mean with "wanting to be a girl"? Dress like one, act like one? A lot of people have all kinds of quirks, some are tame while others stand out socially to a degree of evoking offense. If you want to physically mimic women then that would mean discarding an organ that is a basic and essential part of your being. It's abnormal because it goes against nature.
That's exactly what it is, any mental disparity from a functional reproductive mental state is mentally wrong.
If you are not wired to reproduce with a member of the opposite sex/believe you are a member of the opposite sex then you are broken.
Gays and trannies are mutants that do not benefit evolution as a dead end to their bloodline, and they should not reproduce for risk of further propagating faulty genes leading to these sexual dead ends.
>hurr I was born a mutant that dies from exposure to sunlight
>"you are perfectly normal we need more of you please breed and ruin the species!"
Yes, I can.
You are not a woman. I can look at your genes and determine so with absolute certainty. Therefore the belief that you are a woman is factually wrong. You think that you are something that you objectively are not and will never be. The fact that you are willing to undergo self-mutilation at extreme fiscal cost to yourself in order to entertain the factually incorrect notion that you are a woman only solidifies the point that you do not posses an entirely sound state of mind.
The same applies for anorexia. The belief that one is "too fat/heavy/etc." can be objectively proved wrong by pointing to the vast medical complications that come with being under weight. The continued insistence that one is "too fat/heavy/etc." when they are objectively under weight proves that they do not have a sound state of mind.
If you want to be a girl, that's fine.
But don't think it makes you automatically accepted.
Don't think it means you are going to look like what you think you will.
Pay for the shit yourself, and be a girl.
Can't afford it..?
Then, guess you better learn to tuck your shit.
>Go be a girl if you want
>I'm not flipping the bill
>Someone beats you after taking you home and finds out your all man, Q_Q will be ignored
Liars get stomped usualy.
"I am a woman but I was born a man."
Okay, that's fine, let's cut off your penis to make you feel more comfortable in your body.
"I am Napoleon Bonaparte but I was born as John Smith!"
That's okay, here's a stallion an saber! Go conquered Europe you Napoleon, you!
It's detrimental to somebody with a delusion to enforce and play along with it. They claim to be something they are not. They do have an illness.
You don't get to redefine male and female arbitrarily. The word "gender" is completely meaningless.
If trans women are women, what's a woman? How did those categories exist in the first place?
Fucking prove to me that wanting to be a tiger is a mental illness, /pol/.
None of this "muh feels" or "degeneracy" or "'tigersexualism' is an abomination".
I don't give a fuck about your feelings. Empirically prove to me that wanting to be a tiger is a mental illness or shut the fuck up.
>"I am Napoleon Bonaparte but I was born as John Smith!"
>That's okay, here's a stallion an saber! Go conquered Europe you Napoleon, you!
Trannies would be a lot more interesting if they thought they were characters from history and wanted to start wars instead of faggots mutilating themselves and crying that we need to accept them.
First, it isn't mental illness. The problem here is that people believe being a girl or a boy is some unchanging fact of nature. It simply isn't. Gender is a performance, an act on the stage that is our society. You can switch roles if you wish too. And the role you switched too will be just as much of a role as the one you were ASSIGNED by society in the first place.
During Halloween, everyone pretends to be something different. We don't say that people in costume have a mental illness. So what if people want to be "in costume" for longer periods of times?
>guys in a rabbit! i would prefer if you use my pronoun of squee
>shoves rabbits tale in ass
>im not mentally ill, this is who i am, on all levels including physical, i am a rabbit
>transfags actually think this way
Kill them all 2bh.
Wanting to be a girl isn't wrong.
Actively pretending to be one, or fucking dudes is. Maybe if we were worms or snails or some shit that reproduces with literally any member of its species it would be okay, but we reproduce and have sex with females because it is what we were meant to do.
Now when you break that pattern, when you go against the 99% of Americans that aren't gay, that makes you insane. You aren't a normal human being therefore you are crazy
Isn the argument generally that gender and sex are different things? Gender being what you identify as, and sex the biological, Correct me if i got that backwards though.
Also i am not really endorsing these ideas, just playing the devils advocate.
Who are they exactly? This is just the consensus of scientific fields today, mainly neuroscience that proved that there are parts of the brain unrelated to sex that are solely there for gender identity, and psychology that explained the performative nature of gender. But sure, all those pesky scientists telling me that the earth isn't flat, what do they all know!!!?! Oh wait...
BY THE REASON OF MEDICAL AND SCIENCE, YE ARE MALE OR FEMALE.
Or, best yet, let the male turn females forget to check the prostate.
Let them fuck up medical records when they go in -Men turn women or Women turn Men- and get completely wrong medicine.
It's gonna be funny watching em drop dead.
by some research, up to 60% of people identified as bisexual, or at least wanting to try bisexuality but being constrained by societal norms.
4% of people are homosexual
some 0.4 % are transsexual
Given billions of people on the planet, those numbers aren't small
That picture is absolute horse shit. We aren't "female in the womb". The penis does not start out as a clitoris.
We start off bipotential, with the possibility of becoming either.
The TDF is what drives the change from this bipotential state to male. It causes the proto-gonads to differentiate into testes and to form Leydig cells, which in turn produce testosterone.
We start off neither sex. Otherwise, there would be no such thing as PAIS, where people are born sometimes with a vaginal opening and an underdeveloped glans and sometimes without a vaginal opening with a more developed glans.
"Gender identity" is a stereotype not a biological entity. Trannies think they have to change sex because they don't feel like playing along with the stereotypes. That's mental illness plain and simple.
That is referred to as otherkin?(I believe)
And it is starting to be taken seriously like trans was early on.
Get ready for furfags on CNN telling you how oppressive it it not to refer to them as their pet names.
>Anderson cooper interviewing furfag
>furfag demands to be referred to by his otherkin wolfdog pet name
>progressives on the panel getting angry at Anderson
>"sir you obviously have brain problems I am not going to refer to you as "Anderson Pooper""
>Who are they exactly?
So you're advocating people should get surgery because of societal stereotypes? In other words, transgender is entirely about THE WAY PEOPLE WANT OTHER PEOPLE TO SEE THEM.
That's just fucking nuts.
Why are you still reposting your shitty screencap? You got it disproved in the first thread. You have a fundamental misconception, I suggest that you should reread how the growth of the fetus works and how the two sexes are formed before you post more of your dumb shit.
You know, I don't think there's really anything wrong with wanting to be a girl. There's plenty of people who would like to change the circumstances under which they were born, and your sex is just one such circumstance.
I don't think there's currently much you can do about it. Stats make it clear that trying to transition is a woefully poor solution to the issue. You probably won't pass, you won't age gracefully at all, and the suicide rate is significantly higher than the rest of the population.
If there was a wizard or crazy science that could make you a proper girl, I'd say go for it. Since there isn't, you pretty much have to play the hand you're dealt.
>I really want to be a rock, I'm not mentally ill
>I really want to be a car, I'm not mentally ill
>I really want to be a bird, I'm not mentally ill
>I really want to be other gender than I actually am, I'm not mentally ill
You're either retarded or mentally ill, >>>/lgbt/
I think that just wanting something impossible is not a mental illness, I think most people have moments where they wish and dream for impossible things for themselves. If they start trying to pretend those wishes are real, or become fixated on fantasies while denying reality, it is a mental illness, something going on psychologically that is not healthy.
But what if someone decides they would like to present themselves as the other gender, and take whatever steps are available to them in order to best do so, while lacking any delusions? It's an odd pursuit certainly, but is mental illness necessarily involved?
>go through a sort of trans phase
>coming out of it over the past year
>starting to become happier and more satisfied with who I am
>get diagnosed with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome
>not only can't have kids but I was so extremely close to being female
This thread is the culmination of my bitterness, I apologize.
Male/Female is biological sex, not gender.
Man/Woman is gender. You are confusing basic terminology here...
Sex is unchanging. Gender is performative and often fluid. You're just indoctrinated into believing in this cage of heterosexuality and being forced to subscribe to such outdated and silly notions. In truth you probably thought about sex with other males quite a lot but you force yourself to forget it and to pretend that you fit into this illogical and unscientific notion of heterosexuality. You need to set yourself free! Experiment, you're young! Go and see how it feels to have a big cock in your mouth, how it feels when a man starts ejaculating down your throat, the salty taste of his seed filling your mouth you fighting for air. There is so much more you could experience if you weren't oppressing yourself.
>You know, I don't think there's really anything wrong with wanting to be a girl.
There is, because why would you want to?
Either the problem is you don't fit into a set of stereotypes. In which case having medical treatment is an insane solution. Or else it's simply an esthetic choice. In which case society should not be obliged to play along.
there are considerably less strange people than there are normal people. There is a disturbing amount f strange people though, so I'm glad we could agree on that.
>1000 person polls aren't accurate
I for one appreciate the sacrifice of the man that calmly and rationally explains why the OP is wrong, despite it being a blatant bait thread.
Well done, even if OP is currently thinking
>epic troooool i trold dem so hard!
Idiot SJW troll
Advocates homosexuality when he doesn't realize tranny-ism is against homosexuality.
Well, lets define what exactly it is that makes it so bad.
Fleeting thoughts wishing that you had female privilege aren't so bad if you don't act on them.
Consistently wishing you were the opposite gender won't be totally crippling if you realize that it is impossible to change your actual gender. It will be a source of anxiety and dissatisfaction, but there is an achievable level of emotional coping that can make this life possible.
A person that cuts their penis off, undergoes surgeries, and takes hormone therapy in order to look more feminine is a bit screwy in the head in my opinion because I cannot see the why they would want such a thing. However, even they aren't completely fucked.
>The people that mutilate themselves with surgeries and hormone therapy in order to appear more like the other gender AND expect you to participate in their delusion by treating them as the other gender are the crazy ones. They have a sense of entitlement that you buy into their delusion of being something that they literally are not.
It's that simple. They mindfuck themselves so hard that they believe they are something that they are not, and then they expect everyone around them to be complicit.
Sex =/= Gender
>In truth you probably thought about sex with other males quite a lot but you force yourself to forget it and to pretend that you fit into this illogical and unscientific notion of heterosexuality.
>I'm a faggot so you guys must be too, I'm not unnatural, my progressive doctors at liberal tranny university told me so!
>posting tumblr trannyboy pictures unironically
>I like dick, but I'm not a faggot
>I'm a girl, A GIRL
Keep your lifestyle.
I want no part of it, will not pay for it.
Born male, GENDER IS MALE.
Born female, GENDER IS FEMALE.
Swap your gender around, BIOLOGICAL MALE OR FEMALE STILL, AND NOTHING. WILL. CHANGE. THAT.
This isn't just about convincing the OP. If your ideas are coherent, you should be able to defend them. I use my time on /pol/ to hone argumentation skills I take to the real world.
Don't be too surprised if some of the next generation of politicians get their start from hanging out on here. Trump and Sanders have both been influenced by /pol/ memes. This place is more powerful than you might think.
But the consensus you're talking about includes a distinction that having a brain develop these regions asynchronously with physical sex is itself a deviation from the norm
>muh test flood
>muh test deficiency
Ey yo, so check me out, da problem is not between yo legs, dawg. fo real. the problem b in yo head. You feel me?
no matter what kinda genitals they got, they still got problems in they head! as soon as you get yoself a pussy instead of a dick. you still b havin problems nigga. coz it's all mental and shit
Your feels does not determine whether you are a boy or a gril. Your biological chromosomes do.
XX = Girl
XY = boy
any other variation is usually having Trisomy or Down Syndrome. Both genetic disorders/defects.
how does a man know he's a girl if he's not a girl, but he is a man
truly mental illness
look, if i wanted to chop my arm off because i'm "transabled" you'd say i'm insane
but if i want to chop my dick off it's totally normal
can you find that study (bisexuality)? I seem to remember it saying something like 80% of "self identified" women identified as bisexual/curious which was a pretty crazy stat. I'm incapable due to limited google-fu
According to the dictionary, men are males! How surprising.
If you were born in the 1950´s you would never have spent a thought about wanting to be a woman. Todays society, health choices that lead to low testosterone and failure with women has led you up to a point where you think you should be a woman.
No one is going to be able to prove to you it is a mental illness, it is not like this is a politically correct field of research. But of course you care about our feelings regarding the matter, you are after all here defending yourself.
Yes, because a person with a pursuit knows its just a pursuit.
It's the difference between people wearing fursuits because they think they are sexy but not because they think they really are animals, and people who wear fursuits because they honestly and completely believe that they really are animals. One is just a deviant at worst, the other has a objectively incorrect and illogical view of himself.
Are you female?
>If you have XY chromosomes, you are not
If no, you never will be female. Wanting to be female is like wanting to be a dolphin or a tree - it is a denial of reality.
the former senior (I believe) doctor at John Hopkins hospital, the one that founded treating trans people as their desired gender, has himself said that transsexualism is a mental illness and that we are playing into their delusions.
if I was a conspiracy theorist I'd wonder if this push to get then all "reassigned" is actually a subversive way to make sure that these people cannot and will not reproduce.
because it is a blatant case of false equivalency
sorry not sorry, not b8
again you people baka...
>he/she/xe proved us wrong therefore he/she/xe is b8ing
no, it shows clearly that what we identify as is just a concequence of the society and the role IT has given us. If society gave you a different role, for example lets imagine a small population isolated on some island. But on the island boys are treated as women are treated in our world and girls are treated as men are treated in our world. What do you think will happen? Will the end result be like our world or something completely different? The latter. It will be the latter...
Thus gender is just a social construct, and sex has no relevance to identity whatsoever. Stop being ignorant .
CHROMOSOMES AND GENITALIA ARE SEX
SEX IS NOT GENDER
GENDER IS IDENTITY
HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT YOURSELF AND YOUR PLACE/ROLE IN THE WORLD YOU DUMB FUCK!
>screencapping your own post
Try harder, degenerate. Just because you can describe some of the biological mechanisms behind sexual endocrinology doesn't mean it is normal, beneficial or inherently good.
Sex is determined by chromosomes. Your argument that "lol body just a masheen u can change da chemicals change da masheen" is tautological.
I can change the chemicals in my body to make me a lump of steroid-fuelled muscle. Does that make me a huge muscly guy? Sure, temporarily. But when I stop roiding, my body will go back to the way it was determined by my genes.
Can a man or a woman change their appearance with chemicals? Sure. Does changing their appearance change their SEX? No. Does it change what they ARE, in a qualitative sense? No. It makes them an abnormal, maladjusted failure.
Society didn't assign your role arbitrarily, it was determined by your sex, which in turn is determined by your genes.
It isn't called "sex change operation" anymore, it's called "gender reassignment operation", they aren't changing sex you god damned idiot!
people like you just attack the definition of everything like a reductionist until you get to nihilism that condones anything.
List one thing that I said that was factually wrong or illogical?
Just one, I fucking dare you!
Here's how I see things. I had to take a psych class to meet my general ed requirements, and even though it was just at a community college full of idiots, I really liked the professor. He defined mental illness as
>Any involuntary thought process that causes a person to feel discomfort in their daily lives, typically excluding basic emotions such a fear, joy, lust, etc.
This may seem simple, but let's analyze it. Any involuntary thought process (IE. I am afraid of the color blue, I am homosexual, I am an Apache multi-role attack helicopter etc.) that causes a person to feel discomfort (this is important, as the reason behind the discomfort is irrelevant, it can be internal or external) in their daily lives (also important, if my symptoms are not observable during my typical routine than they are not serious enough to be considered a mental illness), typically excluding basic emotions such as fear, joy, lust, etc. (IE. The fact you are afraid of dying does not give you a phobia on it's own, all emotions are perfectly natural so long as they remain balanced.)
Transexuals are miserable because they have involuntary thoughts and feelings that contradict reality. This alone qualifies it as a mental disorder, since the thoughts are both involuntary and make them uncomfortable(either through their own inner conflict with their condition or external factors like persecutions, it doesn't matter which) in their daily lives.
But we shouldn't just write these people off as sick and leave it at that, we should try to help the sick. The question is how. The obvious answer to the problem is that if they think they are women, just make them women. This is a huge mistake. Mental illnesses need mental solutions. Time and time again we have attempted to solve mental illnesses through physical means and it very rarely works. Giving a transexual a sex change operation is EXACTLY like giving a phobic person a partial lobotomy. Continued.
Where did I use the phrase "sex change operation"?
I didn't, you're putting words in my mouth.
Thanks for agreeing with me that sex is fixed.
Gender, by your definition, is a social construct. If its a social construct, how can you be born as the "wrong" one?
Yes, there have been cases where lobotomies did ease peoples fears, but we understand today that those procedures are brutish oversimplifications of the underlying issue, throwing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak. We can see cases very much like this time and time again where we try to solve mental issues with physical means and it just doesn't work.
The reason it doesn't work is because these are mental illnesses with mental causes. The only physical operation you can perform is literally cut out the part of the brain responsible for the involuntary thoughts, which I think we can all agree is not a route we want to go down. These issues are internal, within the mind of the patient. This is exactly why so many post-op trannies still feel depressed and unaccepted. Their illness is far deeper than any surgeons scalpel could (reasonably) reach. They kill themselves because they have done absolutely everything modern medicine can do for them and they STILL feel ill. They THINK they will be happier as a woman, but that is the nature of the disease. They will never be happy with their identity no matter what they do to themselves. It's fucking tragic in all honesty.
Instead of trying to warp reality to fit their false self-image, we must learn how to fix their self-image. We must tackle this mental illness mentally, where we can actually fix it. These people live under the lie that if they get a sex change they will be happy, and they suffer immensely under that lie. They have to learn to accept what they are rather than suffer fighting a futile fight against things no man can change.
Interesting take on it. But you are essentially arguing that we should just stand back and enable the mentally ill to do what they want, would that not then spread degeneracy even more in the long run? I don't see it as a viable solution
>You didn't argue a point with backed up sources
Your argument is nothing but a fallacy. Your fallacy is ad verecundiam.
My sources are backed by years upon years of research as well as a plethora of nobel prize winners. You've provided nothing but "feels."
>question center square: "What does this make you?"
What is "Wrong?"
>You got it! Circle gets the square!
you aren't born as the wrong one. You are ASSIGNED the wrong gender by society. What we argue in favor of is that children are allowed to identify as they wish without any constraints established by society. Without the ridicule of their pears who are just regurgitating what they hear back home from their parents. Total freedom to identify as one wishes to. You can't seriously suggest this is possible now. You can't seriously suggest that you identify as you identify because of yourself and just yourself. No. You have been indoctrinated into it. All of it is fake.
Also, if children aren't competent to consent to sex, how the fuck can you argue that they are competent to consent to hormone therapy?
You are literally enabling a mental disorder.
gender as it is for most people today can be the wrong one because they had no say in it. if they were allowed from birth to be free from gender oppressive society then they would develop a gender or be gender fluid or whatever they choose, but it would be their choice. Today, that simply isn't the case. You don't choose anything, it is chosen for you by society. You are forced into skin you wouldn't like if you had a choice about it.
Get fucked on
But not like a girl
Cause you are a dude no matter what you do. It's a biological fact and no amount of larping will change hard facts like that.
Enjoy your mutilated cock bro.
Schizophrenia is a good example. It has everything to do with the brain and very little to do with environment. In this instance, we can surmise that it's not a choice, but still, it is most definitely a mental illness, one that can be chalked up to problematic. People will stare at the schizophrenic for being weird when they claim that aliens exist, or that a demon talks to them.
Yet, here we have people like you who, want to be something that you're not, to be accepted. You believe it to be absolutely true that this is okay, and that other people should accept this.
All of that laid out for you, there is zero difference between this and the schizophrenic. You're both wired wrong, and just because you want to be right, and want people to believe you, it doesn't make it so. If you are not heterosexual, something is wrong with you. If you believe that a demon is talking to you, something is wrong with you. There is not splitting hairs on this. If you truly believe that this is okay, then you're also siding with the schizophrenic, or anyone else with a mental illness, otherwise it absolutely defeats your 'cause'.
No I'm not. You see your bigotry right here!
Why do you think forcing the child that identifies as a girl to be a boy is any different from making a child that is a boy into a girl by forcing him to dress like a girl and talk like a girl and ware make up?? It's no different at all. That's what you are doing EVERY time you deny the RIGHT of trans kinds to identify as they wish. It is their choice.
You want to impose your choice upon them and somehow think that is ok. Go find a boy on the street and lock him up in your basement and beat him up until he starts wearing dresses and makeup and talking with a high pitched voice because that's what you are literally doing when you deny trans kids to express as they wish, to do to their own bodies what they wish.
pic fucking related. people like you make me so fucking mad, it's like you don't realize just how evil your beliefs are
If you were left to your own devices, in the middle of no where, from the time you were born, you would identify as you real gender. A male or a female, depending on your genitalia. If nobody was around to tell you that pegging was for straight people too, or that fucking a trap isn't gay, you'd be straight.
>Schizophrenia is a mental disorder often characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to recognize what is real.
>failure to recognize what is real
Thinking you are a girl when you are not is a failure to recognize what is real.
Ergo, thinking you are a girl when you are not is a form of Schizophrenia.
Schizophrenia is a form of mental disorder.
CQFD: thinking you are a girl is a mental disorder.
Listen, there's nothing really wrong with having a gender bender fetish. We all got our kinks.
Wanting to go cut your dick off though and put weird chemicals in your body just is gonna probably give you more regret than anything else.
Feel bad that you weren't born a thousand years in the future where they could basically magic you up into a chick, and just try and deal with it.
I never said anything about that.
Trannies feel unhappy because of their conflicting view of themselves and reality. The PC solution is to change reality to pander to their disease. I advocate for changing their view of themselves, thus eliminating the conflicting viewpoints and the discomfort that comes with it. Bring their viewpoint back to reality rather than mutilate them to prop up a lie about themselves.
Trannies, gays, and other degenerates are sick to be sure, but that shouldn't earn them our ire. After all, they are just sick people. Do you blame people for having cancer, or the flu? I see these mental illnesses as the same. I don't hate them for being sick because they themselves are just the victim of their disease. However, I do believe their disease must be cured, for both their own sake and the sake of our society.
I can honestly say I have trannies and gays best interests at heart. I want them to be cured of their disease and not mutilate their bodies (and our way of life) in the process.
I do not think I am. Technically I am genetically female, but due to a mutation I am not physically so. I simply want to physically be so, but I can at least recognize that any sort of surgery will not make me me physically female.
I don't deny what I am, but that doesn't mean I cannot desire to be something else.
>I do not think I am.
In the OP you stated:
>I don't give a fuck about your feelings. Empirically prove to me that wanting to be a girl is a mental illness or shut the fuck up.
Well allow me to reply in kind: I do not give a fuck what you think or feel. You asked to demonstrate that wanting to be a girl is a mental disorder, and I just did.
Now shut the fuck up you freak.
>If you were left to your own devices, in the middle of no where, from the time you were born, you would identify as you real gender.
Factually wrong. In fact if you are left alone you will lose your very sense of identity. There have been studies on this. Your identity is nothing more than a response to other people. If there are no other people around, your identity will slowly dissipate over time. One man that lived 30 years in the woods with NO human contact also proved this. When he came back to civilization he said he "forgot about himself", but research has known about this way longer before him.
So no, you wouldn't identify as you do now.
no. because I'm an adult and a 5 year old wouldn't ask for sex because his sex organs aren't developed yet. you are still confusing sex with gender jesus fucking christ pick up a book will you?
You have not.
If the kid can't such a drastic choice, then why allow them to CHOP off their dick and pump them self with hormone drugs?
By YOUR reasoning, kids should be able to Drink, Drive, Smoke, Fuck and Enlist, and if you say NO, to these, well guess what?
Kid can't mutilate themselves.
Your argument of
Dosent do shit of convincing anyone but attention starved adults into letting kids mutilate themselves.
>It's funny how you'll argue, and it's going to just be a repost of non fact, my emotion, based answer, followed by calling me ignorant, etc, etc
You are unbelievably retarded if you're not seeing the point to this. I'll skip over it since you're too dense and even if it was spelled out, fail to get it, but I will mention that it's not uncommon for young children to masturbate, nor unheard for them to engage in sexual activities not only alone, but with others. 'Innocent' is the word, and really, that should also be considered when it comes to 'I want to be a female, mommy!'.
If you do not believe your a woman, than your desire must be that you wish or want to be a woman.
Instead of asking for your motivations for being a woman, let's ask what your motivations are for not being a man. Why do you not like the person that you are?
>wake up in the middle of nowhere
>don't know anything
>don't even know where I am
>I have an organ on the outside of my body
>I must be an animal that is supposed to have that part.
Did the guy stuck on an island for thirty years forget he had a penis?
Yes, I can see the hypocrisy in this. I should have put some actual thought into the OP, or perhaps not have made this thread at all.
For some reason, I actually cannot remember asking myself that question. In all of the self-questioning and therapy I put myself through, not once did that question come up. Thank you anon.
He acted as an male animal.
As an animal, he forgot who he was.
Anyone WATCHING YOU WHILE YOUR, "ALONE", ISN'T BEING LEFT ALONE, AND YOU WON'T POP YOUR ANIMAL INSTINCTS, BECAUSE YOU.
>perhaps not have made this thread at all.
Yeah I agree with this, because you haven't acknowledged that it was demonstrated that thinking you are the gender you are not is a mental disorder.
Not to mention this hardly has anything to do with current events or politics.
Transgenderism is a mental order, now move on with your life.
Middle schools are still on break, I see.
drinking,driving,smoking, fucking, enlisting are all things that affect other people and society as a whole, taking hormones affects only the child and no one else. stfu.
same goes for you ^
genitalia is sex, not gender, genitalia has NOTHING to do with your identity, grow up.
>outdated definitions of the words prove my wrong
you probably still think that there is such a thing as reverse racism...
>being fuck retarded
male is sex
sex isn't gender
come on guys!
Sometimes, nothing but a fresh perspective is needed.
I hate generalizing, but people who try to change genders typically have some form of dissociative identity disorder, in the sense that they are trying to distance or dissociate themselves from some aspect about themselves that causes them discomfort.
Find these aspects of yourself that cause you discomfort, and you will be on the first step to recovery. You might need professional help for this, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Find the aspects of yourself that trouble you, whether they be things you bring on yourself, things others put on you, or things beyond anyone's control. You do have the ability to change elements of yourself, and you do have the ability to change how you react to things other people (and sometimes the universe at large) do to you.
Change those elements for the better. Make yourself into a person that you like. I think you will find that you will no longer have the desire to change genders once you stop having to run from what you really are.
But I'm just some shitter on a Mongolian claymation film review site, what do I know?
Male is sex and gender.
>10 years after Bobby became Sarah, Bobby was told he couldn't go back, not fully
>Sarah starts to drink her depression away, unable to fathom how her family allowed him..her...itself, to do such a thing
>Boarh puts a gun to its head and kills itself
>Or mass shoots a place up
> $$$$$ down the drain from surgeryup and and life loss
Srsly. Ultimate troll.
>Empirically prove to me
>"Relying on or derived from observation or experiment. Verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment. Of or being a philosophy of medicine emphasizing practical experience and observation over scientific theory."
Because it looks that way.
Children don't get to make life decisions. Why do you think statutory rape exists at ages of 14 up? It's old enough to have kids but too young to make a mature decision.
>Congratulations you're pro choice
A foetus is not part of a woman body, it's its own separate body that isn't given a choice in the matter of being aborted or not.
Given this argument, the entire diagram can be dismissed.
>Empirically prove to me that wanting to be a girl is a mental illness or shut the fuck up.
For some reason I don't think trannies need empirical evidence to understand why an adult wanting to be a baby or a teenager wanting to be a dog is a sign of mental delusion.
> None of this "muh feels"
Why is there such a special snowflake exception for you people? Why do you use special pleading to try to convince yourselves you're sane and reasonable?
Any other comparable example even trannies condemn as bullshit and you don't want to be associated with because it's so plain to see the delusion.
Amputee fetishists don't get "cured" by lopping off limbs. Giving in to your insanity isn't a cure. And the suicide rates post-"transitioning" speak for themselves.
Wanting to be a girl is just a normal part of the male condition. We subconsciously know that we lost the genetic lottery. Sucks desu.
True gender dysphoria is a neurological disorder caused by differently formed sexually dimorphic nuclei in the amygdala.
A male being feminine in personality or mannerism (or vice versa) may or may not actually suffer from gender dysphoria, but due to social pressures, may "come out" as transgender because it is more socially accepted nowadays (at least in more liberal nations) to be transgender than to break the stereotypes of your sex.
Neither group of people should be stigmatized or discriminated against.
prove to me clinical lycanthropy isn't a mental illness.
Wanting to be a girl? In the modern west, it's pretty obvious where all the political power is, so who wouldn't?
It's the "believing that if you mutilate your body to look like a girl somehow makes you one" part that's the mental illness.
Psychiatry doesn't cure neurological ailments.
As for cases of "feminine/masculine personality", since these people do not actually feel like they are in the wrong body or want to change it, and are still able to function in society, nothing should be done.
Because we are born into heterosexual bodies which are configured for the purpose of procreation. Sometimes they fail due to infertility or whatever, no debate there, but that doesn't change the basic facts of the matter.
Wanting to neuter yourself and invert your cock into a sterile orifice that parodies a cunt is perhaps the most profound and obvious form of mental illness imaginable. It is the impulse to remove yourself from the genepool by self mutilation because you, 'feel' like you were 'born as the wrong gender'.
That's why wanting to be a girl is a mental illness - because if you act upon such an impulse, you won't become a girl. Just an abomination.
Being comfortable being a male if you are a male, and a female if you are a female, embracing roles that allow you to flourish and fulfill time-tested roles applied to each sex in all successful, vigorous, conquering societies, is healthy.
Yes there have always been feminine men and masculine women. No that does not invalidate the point that these are healthy cultural norms, nor does it mean that such individuals wanted to literally be the opposite sex. That impulse is totally unnatural and is symptomatic of clustering mental dysfunctions, or is a mental dysfunction in and of itself.
In other words, you are sick and need help. Not acceptance.
Estonia, you can't see it... What we need to do to kebab and to everyone else is the same exact thing that has been done to the west. Feminism/Homosexuality/Transsexuality, all the same shit, we don't have to even invent anything new, we don't have to invent strategies we just apply them in the same way they have been applied in the west but we up it to 11. We want a collapse of middle east, east asia, africa. We can do this through and only through political subversion.
Read a book called "Rules for Radicals", then we need money, and then we subvert and we don't stop until they are all 10 times more degenerate than the west is.
They are given hormones to make their bodies more closely match what their sexually dimorphic nuclei are telling their brain. It isn't perfect but it's the closest thing to a treatment a "true" transsexual has.
Of course, many "transsexuals" are actually suffering from borderline personality disorder or an unknown psychotic disorder (both mental, not neurological, disorders), rather than gender dysphoria. It is likely that this was the case for the individuals treated with pimozide.
that requires a lot more people than political subversion, and doing it that way will lead to opposition and war, doing it my way will make them hate themselves and do horrible things to themselves, not much work required.
seriously you just read about what the left has done to america since the 60s and then just apply that to the 3rd world shithole of your choice, it will work like a charm
read pic related
Dysfunction begets dysfunction you stupid fuck. You think something as profoundly unnatural and evil as neutering a child by cutting its genitals and shooting it full of androgens or estrogen isn't going to send out ripples through the lives of others, both immediately and down through the lifetime of the horrible, sexless cripple you create by doing so?
One day that child will have to explain to its future partner that it isn't actually a man or a woman, but rather a tranny that was neutered and 'transitioned' at an early age. That it will never be able to sire or bear children, that it's basically a sterile fucktoy for its partner and that they'll have to adopt. That its partner is now an evolutionary dead end, or that the relationship is over.
These things do not happen in a vacuum you cunt. That's not how human beings work. Your actions do affect others, and neutering little kids to play out the sick fantasies of demented ivory tower university professors with sick ideas about 'separating sex from gender' has real consequences.
You are literally transforming an innocent child into a failed organism rather than treating its mental illness and identity confusion. You are a fucking monster. Damn you to hell.
Fuck you and everyone like you. FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU.
>want to be a girl
>trans people just make me mad
That's not a girl, you don't get to be a girl by cutting down your dick.
One of the few acceptable ways (the only?) is to transplant your consciousness into your female clone.
Can't call yourself a girl if you can't get pregnant.
I want to be a girl too, but I'm not about to pretend to be one.
Trans people aren't like "I want to be a girl" which is just like a grass is greener type preference. They are like "I am a girl" which is delusional and not true.
yeah, but tell me seriously here, would an average young american voter that is predominantly leftist have any problems with my argument? find any flaws whatsoever? No they wouldn't. We should push this in america and see if it will work and get parents to allow their children to mutilate themselves.
Calling things "illnesses" is like calling things "weeds," they're considered as such when they're detrimental. If you woke up tomorrow with insomnia you would say it's an illness because it's a detriment, but if an infection broke out that doesn't affect insomniacs you would be considered gucci.
Wanting to be a girl in itself isn't necessarily an illness, just like being afraid of heights isn't either. However, if your fear of heights is so great that you literally throw yourself down stairs to avoid them, you have an obvious mental detriment - an illness. Similarly, if your desire to be a girl is so strong you wake up one night and cut off your penis that's a detriment - a mental illness.
Personally I don't think it's an illness until it gets so bad you start committing self-mutilation, or trying to undergo surgeries to try and convince people you're a woman. While I'm also still personally against it, hormone treatments are both far less invasive and effective.
Who do you think I am false flagging for?
No one is paying me, and I am an actual Romanian. Though I do live in America and am just here on holiday.
I consider myself a feminine male, but not a transsexual.
If it's not a mental illness, "treatments" for it won't be funded by health care programs, which is why it's in the best interests of the people who want these treatments that it be classified as a mental illness.
The idea that it's a mental illness is promoted by LGBT people for this reason.
Fucking prove to me that wanting to be a refrigerator is a mental illness, OP.
None of this "muh warm food" or "power bills" or "who needs a fridge in 2016".
I don't give a fuck about your feelings. Empirically prove to me that wanting to be a fridge is a mental illness or shut the fuck up.
That's really weird but I wouldn't call it straight up mental illness. Wanting to be something that you can never be, like a six foot five football player, a super soldier or even a girl, can be unhealthy if it takes over your life.
But having that weird desire, so long as you keep it under control, won't make you ill. Even if wanting to be the opposite gender does suggest a certain level of discomfort with who you actually are, which, given the current social climate and the fact that this isn't something you can change, may indicate you've got some other issues.
Maybe depression or a sense that being a man is a lot of work and that you don't measure up. Working through those issues may help to relieve your unfulfilled desire to be a girl.
Horrifyingly, you're right. The average dummock in my country would be nodding along and thinking you sounded clever and educated.
What a time to be alive.
Also you trolled me hard. Good work.
>Schizophrenic thinks hes Jesus
>goes to mental hospital, put on psych drugs
>Guy thinks hes really a woman, cuts his penis off and has a makeshift "vagina" created
>perfectly sane and normal
Not if you have the body of a girl. Other than that it is. Mental illness is a deviation from the normal mental process. It can be treated with drugs. Not all that different from thinking your Napoleon.
Not wanting to be a girl is the mental illness.
We live in a world where woman are protected from everything, and have every right over a man.
We live in a Matriarchy, if you do not want to be a woman, you are doing it wrong
Also SAGE because OP not according to sticky rules.
Any parent who accepts, and especially encourages, transgender behavior is a terrible parent.
That's why I have never told my parents about anything related to this, because them accepting me would be worse than them disowning me.
And that anon is gay for letting a man suck his dick
Giving him testosterone will only increase the dissonance between his amygdala and the rest of his body, assuming true gender dysphoria. There is no known way to change the amount of sexually dimorphic nuclei in the brain.
>non shitpost from an australian
Wow that's new.
That's exactly what I'm getting at though. Like a mentally healthy person would be like "I want to be x but it's not happening so life sucks lets move on."
Like there's tons of guys that like RPing as girls, both online and in real life. Wearing panties, getting their asses fucked and similar. That's degenerate but not insane.
Transfreaks delude themselves into thinking they can be a "real girl" and it comes at the expense of them functioning in society.
Wanting to be something isn't mental illness. Believing something other than reality is mental illness.
I'd love to be a qt grill. I'm not though. I was born male with male chromosomes. Not changing that. Such is life.
fucking child abuse, even if trans was "normal" and a natural biological fuckup, theres no fucking way this bitch had FOUR boys that turned out transgendered. These children should be taken away from this psycho
Because they're called chromosomes, not homosomes you fucking faggot.
You don't have to put on the masculine tough guy act here, anon. This is a safe space. We won't judge if you need to have a good cry. Let it out, anon. We all know how much it hurts to not be a girl.
>non shitposting australians
my proud nation ;_;
>getting fucked in the ass
Getting your ass fucked crosses into mental illness territory mane. I firmly believe that homosex, like transgenderism, is a form of mental illness.
When you're actually letting queers take you up the bum you've clearly got some serious issues. It's no longer just a mild fantasy about being a female. It's acting on the impulse to be emasculated and used like one. That's not a conventional route to buggery but it's still as deeply unhealthy as any other in theory and practice.
Mental illnesses cluster and taking 'larping as a girl' to such an extreme that you let other men use you as a fuccboi suggests there's some pretty nutty bats in the old belfry so to speak, beyond 'fantasising about being female'.
Homosexuality isn't just degenerate. It's a vile perversion that spreads loathsome diseases, and a dysfunction of the sexual impulse that leads it in a direction that cannot produce life. Only pathogenic filth and death.
Oh I'm actually not gay, and I don't do any of that stuff. I don't even want to be a girl that badly.
Honestly my dream is to swap places somehow with some poor and abused south east asian girl that was forced into prostitution from a young age.
I don't know if I'd enjoy my new life, but she'd really love hers and the world would be a happier place.
This guy's right
"The most common eating disorders are anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa. These affect about 2% of adult females and some men. Both are serious mental health problems and anyone experiencing them needs a great deal of help and understanding."
It IS a mental illness
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness because you want to change who you are just like when you are anorexic you think your current body isn't good enough so you don't eat.
>Honestly my dream is to swap places somehow with some poor and abused south east asian girl that was forced into prostitution from a young age.
Burden of proof does not lie upon us anon. It is up to you to provide sauce on why it is not a mental illness.
Protip you can't.
Oh and for my personal view since that is what you are after. I don't care how people dress. I will show every human being the same respect. Some I will treat with more caution than others though. There are definite signs of possible violence, mental instability, and untruth. If you prove that you do in fact have one of the traits I will remove myself from your vicinity.
Now specifically to transgender. I do not care if you want to identify as another thing. I will treat you with the idea you are mentally unstable and will actually encourage your self sterliztion as to remove the deficient genes from the collective gene pool.
I was mistaken, it's not the amygdala but the hypothalamus.
Gender dysphoria is a neurological disorder, not a mental disorder. The only treatment is transition in cases of actual gender dysphoria (as opposed to identity issues caused by borderline personality disorder or psychotic disorders).
The individuals around them selves should have the ability to recognize the signs of a mental disorder and actively seek to find them psychological help. Help that does not cater to the whims of the sick, help that can treat the disease and return the individual to society.
Then again I am an idealist and help like that seems incredibly rare in today's degenerative, corrupt, and immoral society.
There's no possible way to do that with any "mental illness". It's a pseudoscience.
What you're asking is like asking "Empirically prove to me that weight is a good color".
>Fucking prove to me that wanting to be a girl is a mental illness, /pol/.
Feeling feminine is a biological fact of life when you go through gestation without the appropriate spikes of testosterone at weeks 11 and 30 which is responsible for making permanent changes to your brain to imprint gender and sexuality.
Having said that, thinking you're a woman, dressing like a woman, behaving like a woman in an attempt to change your sex, especially through hormones or surgery is delusional, you can't change your chromosomes and your genitalia, you can only mutilate your body. These kids of delusions are a type of mental illness which is likely brought on by the pressures of feeling one way but being another.
Basically the vast majority of trans people have a type of body dismorphia, not all do however, some people have mis-gendered brains and just lead a normal and healthy life without needing to play dress up or mutilate themselves.
>Prove to me that this trait that's heavily associated with other mental illnesses and staggeringly high suicide rates is a mental disease.
It's an interesting situation, you know. Liberals love to claim that all the mental illnesses that transgenders suffer from are the result of social intolerance. And yet there's been little to no correlation between oppression and high suicide rates anywhere near the degree that trannies experience in any other oppressed group.
Liberals simply assert that being bullied leads to suicide, therefore, a lack of bullying would prevent trannies from getting mental diseases killing themselves. But if anything, it seems that bullying instead leads to mental illnesses and suicidal tendencies, and that transgenders are the direct result of this.
The image here triggered me
Basic analogy here
The females go out and hunt (yayz feminism)
The males stay at home in defence (boo lazy males, grr, angry sounds)
So the female goes and gets food for the young and does low risk stuff, for the most part hunting prey species doesn't introduce you to much risk besides a cut paw or a parasite. (In a world without human hunters)
Males stay at the roost and fight when it comes to inter-species violence when they must take their superior size and strength and use it to maim or even kill the other lion.
Evolutionary psyche isn't fucking gender stereotypes, there are some basic things we require as humans that's why its innate. Ever feel awkward watching a man cry but want to go help a girl when she's crying? Evolution and some social cues. Men don't cry because they're supposed to stop that once they grow up. Crying is an infantile response to get your defending parents attention. A man who cries shows he doesn't have what it takes to defend the family, which is not optimal.
One of the two binaries needs to be a leader, feel less emotions, be a bread winner, and just suck it up to bring the next generation into the world and defend them until they are of age.
If you want to switch to the other team because you want to feel pretty, go ahead.
But women have pretty faces and wombs which are of some value, until they get older and become "invisible" to society.
Men have skills and labor which are useful. When you trade in that skills and labor for a man jaw and a facsimile of a female body without a womb, you become a useless man. A useless man with debt, a higher propensity to kill yourself anyways, and a mind rewired because of the amounts of hormones you're taking. Let us not forget all the bullshit that goes into transition like the time wasted earning money or building a better future for yourself to support offspring/a happy partner.
>not being content with your biological sex
>needing treatment to function in society and not kill yourself
yeah, totally not a mental illness!
I sometimes think about it too.
But then I also sit here and imagine what it'd be like to be a robot, or an alien, or something else incredibly stupid.
Ultimately what separates the cock-mutilating trannies and "normal" people is our ability do discern wishful thoughts and fantasy from reality.
You need to lay off of the chinese cartoons.
Fucking prove to me that anime posting is not a mental illness, /pol/.
None of this "muh feels" or "degeneracy" or "'kawaii isn't an abomination".
I don't give a fuck about your feelings. Empirically prove to me that wanting to post anime isn't a mental illness or shut the fuck up.
Fantasy is fine provided you don't waste tax payer money and people's time not to mention all the effort done in raising you just so you can invert your dick and call yourself sally for a few weeks and then blow your brains all over the wall because "Muh oppression" or something.
Interesting question, whats the soul of a tranny look like in heaven if you guys believe in that sort of stuff?
>I am sure if people have a true way of magically changing gender
There you go again with your fantasy bullshit.
If you could just press a button and magically get whatever you want then we wouldn't be having this discussion, but that's not how the real world works and actual post-op trannies will NEVER look like real women.
>actual post-op trannies will NEVER look like real women
You're arguing the wrong point. They can look like real women, they can never BE real women.
All I want is to look like one, not be hideous, and wear skirts. I don't even like dudes very much, I'd rather date and marry a girl.
Is there hope for me, /pol/?
I'm probably not gonna get hormones, I don't want to deal with the side-effects.
The skirts are highly important, though.
Thanks Strayacunt, I'll smoke a dart in ya honor
I've got a friend who dresses up in skirts and paints his nails. Doesn't really bother me too much because he doesn't preach his bullshit and instead flat out tells me that he dresses like a girl because it's comfy, and he only ever does it in the comfort of his home.
Sure he's a little weird but it's not doing anyone harm so I can't really get mad. Go nuts.
no one cares about your libtard feelings
consider doing us all a favor and jump off the nearest cliff
literally a fucking abomination
why did your mother not abort you again?....
I would totally do it in public if I could, but I lack the self confidence and would rather not get beaten and/or corrective-raped by people who have beef with it.
What if I drink a tall glass of soymilk every day? I don't want my testicles to atrophy...
>Ruining your body with drugs for a phase that you will likely grow out of
Mutilating your genitals and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to turn your body into some Frankenstein monster is a mental illness and degenerate.
Dressing and acting cute is not a mental illness
Soymilk isn't good enough. Neither are herbal remedies. You have two choices 1) be a pretty-boy and sacrifice your testicles, or 2) save your testicles and become a disgusting man.
>still believing in the testosterone jew
>Wants to please a woman
>At the same time wants to be a degenerate that choses to be feminine
You see no problem in that?
What Woman worth banging would want an effeminate pussy as a boyfriend?
Lesbian in denial? Or someone looking for a sensitive man who listens to her problems and tends to her emotional needs as well as physical?
I don't know if I'll ever find her. But I couldn't be happy pretending to be something I'm not. I'm not a woman, but I'm not a tough manly guy either.
If you really wanted, you could take a lower dose of blockers and estrogen and still probably get erections with some effort. Sex can still be pretty great without them though desu.
Don't listen to this guy! Serbia is a beautiful and progressive country! We are kind to all races and genders! <3 xoxoxo
What about ED pills? Would those work?
I don't even want to be the latter, though. I did used to lift, it didn't make anything better. Hypermasculine, insensitive men are my kryptonite to be honest.
Oh god you are retarded.
He is a he because he is a man. He can be as effeminate as it can get. He still is a man down to the fucking genetic level.
Stop with this retarded gender pronouns bull shit.
but you are a woman, stop listening to these sexually repressed assholes! being a woman is how you feel about yourself, how you want to be. If this is how you truly feel about yourself then you should go and get hormone therapy imminently!
Just imagine yourself living a year from now looking as you always wanted to look, feeling as you always wanted to feel, being in a relationship with a man that is attracted to you and finds you beautiful, you can have that! You can have it all but without courage it will stay just a dream, and at some point it will be too late to do it. Why do you think you come here? To hate? As some form of escapism from your reality? From the reality that you ARE a woman that was taught to hate herself and to never allow herself to fully express! Instead of coming to /pol/ maybe you should visit more the forums with people who are in a similar situation as you, it will be easier if you aren't alone.
Don't let these idiots scare you with some outliars that didn't have enough money for a good doctor. Most operations and hormone therapies of today will make you indistinguishable from a natural female. Anyone won't be able to tell the difference between your vagina and a vagina of a woman who was born with one.
Suffering is only suffering if it's done in silence, in solitude. Pain experienced in public, in view of many people who love you, is no longer pain. It becomes communion.
I wish you the best, my friend.