Are militia members in Oregon traitors or patriots?
Still reviewing the evidence of the case they're protesting...
Leaning towards their hearts being in the right place I guess, but it's still possible they're unjustified in this case...
They're patriots . Why does this shit keep coming up? They're not terrorists, not disloyal. They are US citizens that disagree with our government because our country allows us to act and speak negative of our own country.
Criminals and traitors no better than the Confederacy. They should dance at the end of a rope and be left to rot in front of the capitol building.
They are in the wrong. These fuckers committed arson and have been given the appropriate sentence.
These faggot militia guys are the right wing version of BLM, protesting over criminals getting punished rather than standing up for legitimate issues.
The Constitution allows you to peaceably assemble and ask for a redress of grievances, not storm a public building with weapons designed to kill and occupy the people's property illegally. They're criminals and they should be disarmed and arrested. If they resist, kill them all without hesitation.
rebelling against over reaching government is as american as it gets.
>REEEEEEEEEEE why are you exercising you 2nd amendment rights
They are confederates of the NWO. Funny how the day before obama pushes a new executive order for his shit gun control, these guys get the liberal media talking about all white people are crazy racist gun toting terrorists.
Never trust the shit media and their brainwashing.
So what if they're fucking criminals ? That argument is already invalid. They are doing this for a purpose, they are fucking completely harmless. I could literally go up there today and hangout with them and they wouldn't try to kill me.
They're only traitors if they plan to overthrow an elected government or try to give state secrets to other countries. They might be criminals for trespassing if they were told to vacate the area they occupy by its owners and they will wall be criminals if they start shooting at people. They might be patriots but if they really wanted to help they'd stage peaceful protests in more populated areas to bring attention to their cause and raise money to pay for a good lawyer for the guy being arrested.
No, the Brits had ignored several peaceful and reasoned arguments and attempts by the colonial government to address their concerns that were ignored or responded to with increasingly harsher measures. Force was resorted to as a last resort, and with great reluctance. You literally have no idea what you're talking about. You have no notion of your country's history whatsoever but you'll parrot this moronic ideology. You should be disbarred from voting and gun ownership on the grounds you are too fucking stupid to do either.
That argument isn't invalid. They're armed criminals occupying something my taxes pay for, so they are stealing from me and trying to demand an exception to the laws we are all bound to just because they don't like it. Fuck them. Fuck their temper tantrum. I hope the FBI burns them out they roast like fucking ribs in a smoker.
>No, the Brits had ignored several peaceful
Nothing about the protests were peaceful, even in the Boston massacre protesters were assaulting british soldier, and with the Boston Tea Party they were destroying property.
Stop whitewashing american history.
>Fuck their temper tantrum.
>hurr durr fuck da bill o rights niggu
I'm sure in whatever fantasy land you live in that's true.
Yes, moron that's what I was saying. The American protesters were in the wrong. Every British tax was legal, the American Revolution was an unjustified armed insurrection. How are you this dense?
They're dumb asses. What exactly are their goals? Do they plan on raiding government facilities? They also fucked themselves by holding up. All the gubment needs to do it surround them and starve them out. This is an attention seeking stung that is going to get them put in prison for a long time.
How are YOU this fucking dense? The point of this is that violent stupid actions like these are illegal and no self-respecting real revolutionary movement set on real change would acknowledge it.
Absolutely not. Considering one of the first things the post-Revolutionary government did was put down tax protesters as criminals and traitors.
We have these rights for a reason. It kind of scares me to see the Americans on /pol/ not realize that we are losing the freedom that we have.
So they were self respecting then? I agree, they were also violent criminals just like the Whiskey Rebels.
The only thing the Whiskey Rebels did wrong was lose, otherwise they were completely justified. The only thing wrong any revolutionary can do is wrong. If they win they becomes heroes.
You aren't a criminal or a traitor until you've actually been proven guilty of something in a court of law, dumbass.
I swear people like you don't even have 2 brain cells to rub together.
Try and get my message to the guys in Oregon.
Where does this anger come from? Did a southerner steal your girlfriend? Did one perhaps raise their voice at you, or even disagree with you at some point?
Pic is the "government facility" they "stormed .
I'm a dental hygienist and I went with roaming free clinic to work on some southerners in rural Tennessee. They were the most entitled, ugly, stupid fucking people with the worst teeth I'd ever seen and I've hated the South ever since.
>Pic is the "government facility" they "stormed .
the only ones who have used the term stormed were liberu media and faggots on 4chan. There was literally no one there because it was closed for the weekend.
Hmmm, starting to read up on the case. It seems the feds actually tried to send this family to prison for 5 years because they accidentally burned one acre of land on a federal reserve. That is bullshit.
These guys are patriots then.
I wonder if they alerted the local fire dept. / wildlife service before starting their fire? Oh wait, of course they didn't because they think they can do whatever they want wherever and whenever they want. So then Cletus realizes he can't control the flames and we lose good federal land that they don't own ruined because of their stupidity.
Lock them up and throw away the key.
The year in jail from what I gather is from an earlier fire that burned over 1300 acres and it does seem that one was negligently set. The five year sentence is from a back burn they did. Still trying to get the details but it seems they were being charged under the terrorist act for damaging gubment property with fire. That law was passed to stop blatant arson of federal installations. I doubt it was meant for accidental fires that get off private property. Still reading the case logs though.
It's a bit more than just the welcome building.
> incompetent ranchers burning brush on their land have it spread to federal property
> ~140 acres impacted
> gub'mint charges them for terrorism and gives them 5 years in the federal pen
> other farmers gets jimmies rustled
when the feds start treating moderate accidental property damage as terrorism, does it really surprise people that other citizens react really negatively.
PROTIP: next time you accidentally burn some shit, pay some random black dude to say he was venting his feelings about Trayvon or whatever. Everybody walks away happy.
if 4'11" 70 lb rice farmers with second hand Soviet and Japanese guns can start a war that would defeat the US government, I'm sure militia tryhards with the latest in tacticool equipment (night vision, AR-15s, $500 red dot sights, the same pistols as the military, AWD trucks) could do the same
>The year in jail from what I gather is from an earlier fire
no they are being sent back to jail for the same "Terrorism" conviction. they are being forced to go back and serve out the minimum sentence even tho the judge ruled it unconstitutional (cruel and unusual) and gave them lesser sentence. sending them back to jail for the same crime is illegal.
>that burned over 1300 acres and it does seem that one was negligently set
the fires that they set burned onto the land they had grazing rights for and it was only like 100 acres
the other fire they set was a firebreak for a natural forest fire caused by a lightning storm.
This Anon has it right. This "Hurr Durr, revolution is an American tradition" shit is so fucking dumb. FFS, in the Declaration of Independence it say's "Should not be done for light or transient reasons".
The Entire reason the US Colonies revolted was because they were not only being abused by the system, they were SHUT OUT of the System, and denied vote in Parliament.
This is NOT the case for these idiots in Oregon. They are fully enfranchised citizens, with every right to affect the democratic system of the nation. They are resorting to force of Arms because their opinion is a minority one rejected by the Majority of the electorate.
They are not freedom fighters, they are wannabe tyrants attempted to compel by force the American People to adhere to their desires. There can only be on recourse for such scum.
They could if there were about, like, two million more of them.
Find another two million rednecks with your le Call of Duty equipment that are willing to uprise and then maybe that'll be possible.
>PROTIP: next time you accidentally burn some shit, pay some random black dude to say he was venting his feelings about Trayvon or whatever. Everybody walks away happy.
God this is so true and makes me angry.
You have some fucking criminal black assaulting people or trying to take their gun and you get the president on TV saying he dindunuffin and that it looks bad they got shot.
You get something like this and the libshit media wants you to believe it's justified.
Same liberal shits that spent years now trying to convince you criminal blacks getting killed in the process of doing crime is anudda shoah and that you need to change laws and society to stop it.
They won't stand up and say this terrorism charge is bullshit.
Because this is just too good of an opportunity for them to hate white people some more.
>I haven't seen these people loot burn or riot yet
Literally what? The two ranchers were imprisoned for literally arson, Bundy's kids are occupying federal property with armed force. What are you even talking about?
Anyone else here thinking this is gonna end Waco, Texas style?
"Some of you may see a story in the news soon about a takeover of a federal building in Oregon. Before the media turns this into another Waco, you should know the truth. First off there is no standoff nor are roads closed or blocked. The situation is being monitored but the fact is some patriot protestors went into an unlocked building for warmth. The following is intel from the site.
Harney county, Oregon update: I just got off the phone with Blaine who is AT the wildlife refuge. To dispel any rumors, this is a vetted update. There is NO hostile takeover. The land and building is public, and there are NO, do not trespass signs, or hours of operation posted. The doors were NOT locked. There is NO armed standoff at this time. They are simply occupying a building owned by We The People. Many of the town folk work for BLM, hence the problem. Most town folk are also very supportive of the Hammonds. This is a peaceful protest, and is following a redress of grievances with thousands of signatures. For all other vetted info, see the Bundy Ranch Facebook page. Ammond is on scene in Oregon. Again, I just got off the phone. This info is vetted, and they are looking for more peaceful, cool heads, and rationaly minded patriots to join them in support of the Hammonds, and America."
Found the Autist. Is it really so hard to believe that there are people who will take up arms against the militias if "the fire rises"?
This idiot argument is the same one the Confederates used to sell the bullshit of a peaceful secession to their people. "No way in hell will the people rise in defense of the Feds".
Well Shermans march to sea proved rather conclusively that idea was bogus. BTW, its still bogus.
I hate to say it but this is the answer until the government is literally coming to get the guns.
Yeah Im sorry but these guys stand no chance if the military really cared. They are edgy libertarians trying to spark a revolution and are going to get the beat down.
>Are militia members in Oregon traitors or patriots?
They're shabbos goy libertarians. Anyone who is unironically libertarian is a degenerate.
These idiots are protesting the fact that the government doesn't just let people start hundred acre burns at will on public land.
If they gotta go they gotta go. The fact they are sitting their jerking each other off shows how much they will accomplish lol. Libertarians are the worst cancer
>still thinking these guys are doing this because of Hammond
The Hammond family don't want anything to do with them. The people of Burns don't want anything to do with them. The local sheriff says the militia are just there to cause some mischief.
The truth is these guys are a bunch of low IQ bumblecucks who take their facebook videos too seriously and got manipulated by a family of neoniggers who want free land. They got their way once before and think they'll be able to do it again.
Actually, I'm a Virginian. We can't avoid the Civil War down here. We got caught in the cross fire the first time and paid the highest price for it for our trouble. If a bunch of idiots want to start a second one, they better have a damn good reason to do it.
"Hurr, I don't want to pay the feds $1.50 a cow for grazing rights" does not qualify IMO. A bunch of pretentious idiots with cowboy syndrome knowing nothing about the consequences of what they are advocating.
Oh god liberal tards caused it and they wanted to manipulate the souths economy and the south told em to get fucked.
15 guys in a room
he would literally have to send in SWAT and could catch em all easily. No one gives a fuck about this literally but libertarians who live in the burbs and know nothing about real combat. Lmao at people who are untrained out of shape fucks thinking they have a snowballs chance in hell. inb4 muh revolution. THE AMERICANS WERE FIGHTING PEOPLE WHO STOOD IN A FUCKING LINE AND SHOT NO SHIT THEY WON.
>I dont even get what they are fighting for
>I doubt many people give a fuck about 15 fatasses occupying a building lol.
You seem to...
And they would surely care if the government deployed hellfire missiles against its own citizens. Also, it's 150.
I disagree, I think an armed protest in a federal building away from populated areas is very sensible, you get the government's attention and you minimise collateral so the only one's getting hurt in the event of an escalation are the protesters and the police,sheriffs and NG, it also takes away weight from the terrorist label when the only thing they are occupying is a closed lodge in the middle of no where, with no strategic importance, also the fact that the location has a something to do with the case against the Hammonds may even draw attention to some of the sketchier court proceedings that caused the whole mess.
I don't think enough evidence has come up for a ruling in ,or against, them but if I was them that's the perfect place politically and tactically, especially with the water and animal sources offering a sustainable living.
You really think you could stand up to a drone or an abrams. Buddy you may wanna join the armed forces... What is this all about though starting fires or money for cows.
OK, this happenings is now on finnish mainmedia too:
4.1.2016 klo 1:46
(news posted about 2 hours ago)
The Bundy's are protesting the land use. They have coopted the Hammand families case against their wishes. The Hammonds were convicted of Arson (not Terrorism as some have claimed).
They initially got a light sentence because of the circumstances. However, due to mandatory minimum sentences passed in the 90's by Newt Gingriches congress, they have to serve 5 years in prison regardless of whether or not it was accidental. Hence the reversal of the original sentencing order.
Which is why the bashing of Liberals for this is so hilarious. Liberals have been wanting to repeal mandatory minimum sentences for a decade now and its been Conservatives blocking it at every turn. Not so funny when its white people rather then niggers on the receiving end of a mandatory minimum.
because the nation still believes 9/11 was carried out by al-qaeda saudi's who couldn't fly.
>Lmao at people who are untrained out of shape fucks thinking they have a snowballs chance in hell. inb4 muh revolution
Your newness is showing. If you really believe that you are a complete and utter faggot.
>These idiots are protesting the fact that the government doesn't just let people start hundred acre burns at will on public land.
No they aren't. They are protesting the fact that after they were convicted, sentence, served their time, and were released, the gov basically said "lol nvm actually we decided it was terrorism come back to jail for 5 more years pls" without any kind of hearing or re-trial.
Even if these guys are guilty of every arson crime or negilence/whatever they are accused of (which they might be), it's an absolutely despicable and evil jewish abuse of power to attempt to punish them again post-facto.
You are comparing the british soldiers who shot single shot muskets in a straight line.
Heavy equipment, unmanned weapons, automatic weapons, planes, tanks, heavy armor, body armor, tactics, snipers, survellance, electronic manipulation, chemical capabilities, etc.
I can tell someones a civvy
This pic is not very accurate. It implies the "loyalists" were somehow a superior sect that "ruled" over their "patriot" neighbors.
In actuality the Loyalists were Americans who took up arms against the rebellion. History is written by the victors, but the important fact should still be kept in mind that even for a cause like the American Revolution, a large portion of the resident population took up arms in defense of the ruling government.
No effort to bring about revolution by force of arms goes unopposed. Ever. The moment you resort to the gun to bring about political change, you force your neighbors to pick sides. And not all of them will side with you.
And it should be added, not even members of your own family will side with you. There is a reason why the American Civil War was called a war between brothers. Because in every battle members of the same families were often of opposing sides and trying to kill each other.
Look at your brother. Your son. Your daughter. Is your cause just enough that you would be willing to kill them even as you are willing to accept the possibility they will try and kill you. If it is, then you are ready for a civil war. If it is not, you are a pretentious faggot shitposting on the internet.
fuck off bootlicker. I bet you're a Bernie voter
This is pure bullshit and lies. They're shilling for rancher interests, whether they're legal or not. Ranchers should be shot. End of story.
Loving America is treason to the White Race, humanity and the planet.
This. Kill the rancher cunts. String up their corpses for the vultures to pick clean.
What branch you lying fucking FAGGOT?
I don't get why these people are against public land. The best thing about the West is access to millions of acres of wilderness areas. Why the fuck would they want to turn all of that into private property?
Actually, I am 50% Scot, 50% English, my last name starts with Mc, my mother was born in London and my fathers family came to North America in the 1600's. I also own a gun.
Now, the gun I own is for shooting Deer in my beloved blue ridge mountains. But I can also use it to shoot pretentious twats who want to overthrow my elected government if push came to shove.
>WE WUZ REBELS N SHIT
>OBAMA AINT MY PRESIDENT HE IS A MUSLIM AND PROBABLY COMMUNIST XDDDD
>1776 not 2015 OKAY
>DAMM LIBRUELS :))))))))))))))))))))
Summary of this thread for anyone interested
I see you clearly don't have a land owners mentality, the Feds are trying to gain more ground and take more private property away from US citizens. It has been done before.
faggots like you are why civil wars happen
the same theme happens throughout history
>a govt breaks its own laws to commit injustice or does evil to citizens
>citizens tell them to F off
>cuck comes in demanding goyim blood be spilled so he can get back to prepping bull
>now the people that are standing up for what is right have to either cave and let evil win, or fight their own countrymen
>nobody wins, everybody loses, many people die
>because you couldn't be bothered to spend 15 minutes looking into their greivences before slurping government cock
You aren't an American if you would have sided with the britcucks
Firefighters and Forest Services personnel don't have the greatest track record either.
Their grievances are shit. They want the right to exploit the natural resources of the west without oversight or restraint. I listened to their manifesto on the livestream and it basically boiled down to the Feds won't let us overgraze, strip mine and clear cut log.
The reason we even have these sustainable wilderness areas that are still economically viable is because the Feds have kept them in Common trust. These idiots owe their entire way of life to the Federal Government for preventing the high desert grassland from being exterminated over the 20th century.
terrorism charges are a myth. The defense said they were being treated like terrorists. They were convicted of Arson. They are only going to prison because of mandatory minimum sentences demanded by the REPUBLICAN PARTY. Not the liberals.
I want that balaclava that the guy on the right has.
Unless everyone gets off their high horse about GMOs, allow advancement to produce more food on the same amount of land we have now, you will see more and more Federal land reused in the coming future. Unless a plague or world war solves the over population problem.
It has never belonged to them. The Federal Government has overtime parceled out millions of acres of federally owned land to private interests over the last 200 years. But it keeps other areas in public trust for various reasons, such as ecosystem sustainability, common use (like open range grazing) and so on.
The only really egregious abuses of the federal lands has not been in the west, its been in the east. Like the creation of the Shenandoah National Park. You want to see real government abuse, look up the shit that went into making that one. Western folk don't know how good they got it.
That said though, nobody around here denies that the creation of Shenandoah was in the end, good for the area. It saved the Black Bear and White Tailed Deer, where before both were on the verge of extinction in Virginia prior to the creation of the park.
Private interests are all well and good, and there needs to be a balance. But what the Bundy's are advocating has no long term basis. They are demanding lands that were never theirs to begin with be handed over to private interests from the public trust, and this is unacceptable. ESPECIALLY when they make these demands at the point of the gun.
I will be more then willing to entertain their ideas so long as I do not feel I am being forced by threat of death and insurrection to listen to them.
Right now all I hear is the whining of a bunch of reactionary rebels demanding I appreciate their point of view "or else".
To that I can only say "or else what?"
>illegal armed occupation
Well, it seems that the building they occupied is open 24/7, just not staffed for that period. It isn't illegal to be in the building and it isn't illegal to have guns on the property. So in reality they have not broke any laws yet.
when the government breaks the law, uprising can be justified. otherwise, judging by the incident, you are asking citizens to leave a communist dictatorship alone so that the citizens won't be branded as traitors.
Did you miss the open 24/7 part. The area the militia moved into was open to the public so they are not really trespassing. Now if they try to bar the employees from working tomorrow then I can see hell to pay, but I think they are just going to get a huge GTFO and this will die down shortly.
It's stupid though, they're not going to get anything done. The two people who got convicted of crimes are still going to jail, they've agreed to.
If they really had balls, they would occupy a more important target, to make people actually care about their issue.
The funny thing is, they're wasting their own tax dollars by occupying that refuge. They're paying for the FBI to babysit them.
Maybe this link can help you try to see their point of view.
That's one of the worst news sites I've ever used. The font, the colour scheme, it's all awful.
Highly unlikely. If the FBI just let them be and left the premises, and the news stopped covering them, nobody would care. Nobody would even know about it.
Their point of view is clear. It's the point of view of all ranchers. They want to steal public land for private profit. They should all have bullets firmly embedded in their skulls.
Let's let democracy decide
Yes Comrade! How dare they not let the Federal Government not walk over them!
Did you not see the underhanded tactics used by Fish and Wildlife Services and Bureau of Land Management to force people to sellout to them, literally stealing form the citizens. I have never been a fan of FWS and never will, I have more deer and turkey on my farmland then they do in their huge private playgrounds.
Also, read up on the Green Revolution faggot
Doesn't bother me I'm Mexican. At least the whites here can defend themselves unlike in your shithole of a country. Does it bother you that England will cease to be with in the next 50 years? All that history and culture gone. It honestly makes me kind of sad. If I was in your shoes I'd bomb the fucking queen. Yet you sit in front of your computer and shit post.
>If I was in your shoes I'd bomb the fucking queen. Yet you sit in front of your computer and shit post.
I don't like the government either. This is simply the only war I would be even remotely willing to fight with them. I fucking hate capitalcucks far more than the government which is owned by them.
A trained United States military couldn't even fight against a bunch of out of touch high school drop outs from the Middle East. How do you think they will fair any differently when they fight the same type of enemy in Oregon?
Also, I can't imagine most of the US Military being 100% OK with fighting at killing fellow US citizens, the amount of "Calling for drone strikes" and anti-White comments around the internet over this story is a bit scary to me.
It's actually the same concept. The British were a strategically and technology superior adversary in any way to the rebels until the evolution of the musket later in the war.
>Heavy equipment, unmanned weapons, automatic weapons, planes, tanks, heavy armor, body armor, tactics, snipers, survellance, electronic manipulation
Whole lot of good that did against the guerrilla wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. How many of your buddies died soaking in their own blood, because some genius found out how to blow up a tank using a soda bottle and some alca seltzer?
Guerrilla War and Conventional War are not the same, our Military are trained to fight in a sense that we are fighting a Conventional War, not a Guerrilla War. The US Militarys record at combating guerrilla tactics is shaky at best.
And yet just a year ago they were training for that exact same thing all over the country.
They have trained time and time again to do this sort of thing for the stability of the government. They don't even view civilians in the same equilibrium as they view themselves.
No, there defending him and his son because they had already served there time, but then the judge decided that they hadn't served enough time and sent them back to prison again.
True, but I have a few friends in the service that do not like the idea of going to war with their fellow countrymen just cause the government ordered them to do it. That doesn't necessarily go for every service men out there I know, but I am not sure how most soldiers would react to the situation if the citizens where in the right and the government was in the wrong.
So i skimmed through the whole thread...what did these guys do exactly? I saw a post about it on facebook and thought id come here to see what happened