>>59960544 Is there was a lot of singing lol. I dunno, there was a big snow day today, so there wasn't a lot of people here. The main pastor guy wasn't here either, so I don't know how different it was from the usual service. It was pretty bad though, me and the people that were there were talking a lot about northern European heritage, and Scandinavian Americans and German Americans and just talking about European culture and also Christianity
>>59960679 I left the Lutheran church in 2003 because of their support of Lutheran Social Services. Before that point I asked why "On the Jews and Their Lies" was not included in the official Luther bibliography in the church library. They told me they had no idea what that was and basically that the Missouri Synod did not acknowledge its existence.
I recommend reading some theology by yourself now that you are one of us. The church lately has become very feminine and I find individual study to be more useful. Though Its important to be a part of a church I lately tend to read and study on my own.
>>59960864 >tfw Jesuit educated at Georgetown >tfw I minored in Theological Studies because my Jesuit professors were so based >mfw I am not religious at all >mfw I drank whiskey with my based Jesuit professors
>>59960854 Seems like a red pilled organization of the Blue pilled denomination.
The LCMS is traditional and the ELCA is the modernist one.
But it sounds like yours is actually traditional.
>>59960826 actually LCMS doesn't even condemn it they just point to anther quote. Some of the other branches do condemn the book. "We in The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod " condemn any and all discrimination against others on account of race or religion or any coercion on that account and pledge ourselves to work and witness against such sins." We join Luther who in his last sermon said of the proper Christian attitude toward the Jewish people, " We want to treat them in Christian love and pray for them..."
>>59961218 >>59961123 Got it bros, thanks a lot. Yeah this one seems pretty traditional, but I will ask questions about that traditional vs modern stuff. I do want to attend a traditional thing so, so far so good... but yeah I will ask about that stuff
>>59961423 Why not? If you throw out the Old Testament (which is also not jewish, but White, mind you) you're throwing out 2/3 of the Word of God. >>59961500 >worshipping idols Why? Why would you do this?
>>59961264 Lutheran heritage, German relatives and grandparents.
I grew up in a secular home, but after coming here I realized that I should go to church to help retain my Western values.
Secularism is of course a Western value, and fax secularism is health which separates the west from the Middle East and shit like that, but at the same time I think it is good to help identify with your Christian heritage and one way or the other
>>59961434 Thomas Paine painstakingly goes through each so called prophecy about Jesus in the 4 gospels and shows how obviously bullshit they are. http://www.deism.com/paine_essay_false_prophecies_of_jesus_1.htm
>>59961174 Christianity must lead a counter revolution. There was a growing movement but obviously the leftists literally killed all party members after the war so the only people left are people who rediscover it.
Follow the links for more info and obviously if you are interested search amazon for the source material and go deeper.
>>59961443 The LCMS and ECLA divide is a lot like the Vatican II divide in the Roman Catholic church. The modernists took over and changed everything. Then some based pastors basically left and created the LCMS and SSPX in protest waiting for the church to return to form. But their are plenty of people with in both Roman Catholic mainline and ELCA who support traditional teachings and practice. The difference is that its not official position of the institution.
>>59961307 We don't have any factual data to make that claim, just like we can't tell that w/e God is real but people are free to believe what they want. >>59961423 Distancing yourself from the OT is part of the problem and even in the NT there is a lot of stuff incompatible with the hypocritical modern "Christian" lifestyle (divorce, materialism, women's rights, etc).
I'm not a christian expert just friend with a christian.
>>59961680 >and even in the NT there is a lot of stuff incompatible with the hypocritical modern "Christian" Positive Christianity was rejected in traditional societies, of which we now very few.
>istancing yourself from the OT is part of the problem I do not follow the Hebrew Bible, but I will take the ten laws of Moses from it, the Jews can keep everything else in their nullified pretend religion of the Talmud.
>>59961590 i also disagree with pennants and other stuff. Their is no action you can do to redeem you of sin because it has already been paid for by christ. That doesn't mean you can run around being a Asshole and committing sins though because it can damage your faith
>>59961506 >jew >convert and not be jewish anymore Jews are a race of people. They have dna. There are atheist jews. >>59961590 ? >>59961722 Don't you bow to statues? >>59961733 No, it's not. The Old Testament is not jewish.
>>59962264 I love how people never actually respond to this, they just post a reaction image with the quote.
Josephus' Antiquities 12.5.1 says the Israelites appeared no different from Greeks. King David was called ruddy, which means "to show blood in the face, i.e. flush or turn rosy". Esau, the grandson of Abraham and the brother of Jacob, the progenitor of the Israelites had red hair. There are Egyptian depictions of Israelites with red and blonde hair, and blue eyes.
Israelites are Hebrews, and if Israelites are White, Hebrews are White.
>>59962437 "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" Exodus 20:5
It doesn't matter what else you say about it, if you so much as bow to them, you are breaking a commandment. And, according to that verse, those who bow to idols hate God.
>>59962671 >It doesn't matter what else you say about it, if you so much as bow to them, you are breaking a commandment. No this refers to worship other Gods. Respecting the believers of the same God as you is a totally different thing
They dont. Evangelicals are the nutjobs who push that crap.
Anyway OP good choice. Try to attend an LCMS church but if you are at a very traditional ELCA church you should be ok, as long as you make sure to have a very thorough conversation with the Pastor to ensure the chirch is really traditional.
Besides studying Luther's small catechism and the Bible, I also recommend that you and any other Lutherans here read 'The Fire and the Staff'. It is an excellent book written by a Lutheran pastor who listed the differences between the word of God and what evangelicals teach in their kangaroo churches. It is essential reading imo because it gives a great analysis of the faults of the evangelical churches, which you will run into alot in this country.
>>59962671 Levantese aren't H'white, they're Arab not Caucasoid. You could say they're "Aryan" or honorary Aryan in certain instances. But with the Hebrews and their forays into Canaanite and Phoenician culture I would not consider them so. Persians however would be Aryan but not white for instance.
>>59962774 St. Cloud has a huge, parasitic population of Somalian "refugees". They've destroyed the city and are currently doing the same to Fargo. All of them are brought in by Lutheran Social Services. A non-profit supported largely by the Lutheran churches in our area.
Read "The Orthodox Way" by Bishop Ware if you're interested in red-pilled Christianity.
>>59962872 Exodus 20:3-6 : "3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them (any graven image), nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Thus: Thou shalt not bow to any graven image, for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
"If ye love Me, keep My commandments." - John 14:15.
>>59964098 Nope, even so much as "bowing" to graven images is a sin. It says "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them NOR serve them" as in, it is still a sin with the first option. So, you can read the next sentence going off of "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them". Even if the next sentence didn't somehow apply, it still says "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them OR".
>>59963648 In further findings the Hebrews were considered Caucasoid and thus white. However the term Aryan isn't a racial classification but a term meaning "noble". And in the case of the Hebrews this doesn't seem applicable, rather the opposite with their adoption of repugnant and horrific Canaanite culture.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2236-ba-al-and-ba-al-worship >It would appear that the Hebrews first learned Ba'al-Worship from the agricultural Canaanites. Their life before the conquest of Canaan, whether lived in or outside of Palestine, was nomadic, and therefore kept them beyond the circle of religious associations promoted by the cultivation of the soil. After their settlement the Israelites began to live as did the people of the land, and with the new mode of industrial and domestic life came the example and the incitement of the religious use and wont that were inseparable from the soil. The stated festivals, in which the Ba'als of the land had drawn to themselves all the enthusiasm and devotion of an intensely religious people, were a part of the fixed order of things in Palestine, and were necessarily appropriated by the religion of Yhwh. With them came the danger of mixing the rites of the false gods and the true God; and, as a matter of fact, the syncretism did take place and contributed more than anything else to the religious and moral decline of Israel.
Now, did the Hebrews all become unanimously Jewish after some time. As the Romans expelled every Jew from Israel so did that encompass all of the Hebrews as well?
>>59964811 Why do you need a church just to read a book? It's not even very good. The book that is, some of the churches are masterpieces of architecture and should be turned into museums for the enjoyment of all, not gathering points for extremists and radicals.
>>59963701 >>59964325 What he said Heres the story >The LCMS joined with the ELCA when it was still somewhat conservative or they lied to us to encourage us to join them >ELCA became increasingly liberal >LCMS had some liberal parasites due to ELCA influence >LCMS cuts off from ELCA >LCMS liberals want to make LCMS like ELCA >LCMS have a protest and we kick them out >They join the ELCA >LCMS wants to join WELS church >WELS Church don't want anything to do with us because we were affiliated with the ELCA thats kinda the story
>>59964594 >jewishencyclopedia Here's a tip, don't trust jews. Hebrews aren't just "White" they are White Aryans. It is a racial classification, here's my response I made to another post saying "Aryan isn't a racial classification".
>They hate the word "Aryan" because Hitler said it. Obviously the Indo-Europeans were White and blue-eyed as well, given the current Europeans are supposed to be their descendants, aren't they? And if they're not, why should they make Aryan suddenly not mean what it originally meant? Why do they think they were Iranians? Scythians were blonde haired, and blue eyed. What makes you think Aryans or Indo Europeans weren't White, if Europeans are descended from them? Or are they not? If so, why not just keep the term Aryan? I'm pretty sure Indo European means Europeans descended from them.
>>59964594 >adoption of reugnant and horrific Canaanite culture. When was this? They never adopted Canaanite culture.. Or, when did they ever worship ba'al?
>Now, did the Hebrews all become unanimously Jewish after some time.
Hebrews are the descendants of Eber, a White man. "Jewish" and "jew" in the Bible should read Judean. If by "Jewish religion" you would mean "talmudism", then no, they never became talmudic. Jews, as the word refers to today are really Canaanite-Edomites. At the time of Christ, Judea was populated mostly by Edomites, and then a remnant of Israelites that came back after the Babylonian captivity.
>>59964666 It's idol worship. I didn't make it up. I'm pretty sure "graven image" includes a statue.
>>59965409 The Slavs also have blond hair and blue eyes, as can the Persians. The Slavs are sometimes considered Aryan and sometimes not, it's not a racial classification but a term denoting nobility and excellence.
>>59965637 Well, whatever it is, it is a sin, according to God. I have proven this. Ignore what I said, just look at the verse: "Thou shalt not bow to any graven image, for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"
>>59965618 aryanism isn't totally about being blonde hair blue eyes that's just liberal talk trying to divide and conquer. Yes a goal was set for blonde hair blue eyes because it would distinguish our people from the rest but you should also take the smartest and the strongest of the brunets and just try and mask the brunets whilst keeping the good genes in the pool
>>59965618 The word Aryan was ""changed"" to mean Indo-European, when in fact Indo-Europeans were, I believe, descendants of Israelites and ancestors of modern Europeans. By "Aryan" I mean "Indo-European". The Israelites don't just "have blonde hair and blue eyes" they're White Aryans. Why shouldn't Aryan just mean White?
>>59966209 Man, you're avoiding just what it says. Like I said, even if the next sentence were to somehow not apply to the first option, which it does I'm pretty sure, the first option would STILL be breaking the Ten Commandments.
Not the second sentence, the second part I mean, but "for <punishment> goes to those who hate me, is "the reason"(not *the* reason) to not commit either of the options. One being "do not bow to any graven image".
It is saying "[Thou shalt not bow to any graven image] for <...> goes to them that hate me." "Them that hate me" is obviously in reference to those disobeying either option. And I say again, even if the second part did not apply, it would still be a sin in the Ten Commandments.
fuck the money. I mean, the thins Lutherans originally stood for were beyond based. When did a pope ever said anything against the jews so much like Luther? Lutherism preached law, order, education, self-improvement, anti-semitism, anti materialism, anti usery, even eugenics! why doesn't the catholic church preach such things? or why didn't they at least preach those things before?
>>59966209 Oh, also, do you read your bible in German? Because that's saying "Thou shalt not bow down to any graven image, for <punishment> goes to those that hate me." The punishment is for bowing to the graven image, and the punishment is also for those that hate Him.
It is saying "those that hate me" in reference to those who bow to graven images.
>>59966805 dude you forgot gospel. The the Catholics were teaching that you could get your sins forgiven if you did actions for God and stuff that's like the biggest reason luther separated he didn't even want to separate tho he just wanted reform
>>59966899 >>59966743 In german it says you shall not make you a graven image (the word used for graven image means a thing you worship) I explaned you trice why it's not idol worship. Repeating no you're wrong again won't prove anything.
i know. he still gets shit and hate from catholics as if he wanted that all these degenerate sects of today exist, and who call themselves ''protestants'' - The only protestants are the Lutherans, the others, Calvinists, Anglicans, Baptists etc. those are actually real heretics. They misused and bastardized Luthers ideas in order to create their ''Churches''.
>>59967287 >>59967287 Uh, do you know what "graven image" means? I'm pretty sure it means an image, that is graven. Which would include a statue, would it not?
If so, if it includes a statue, God said "Thou shalt not bow to a statue". Is a statue not a graven image? A statue is surely considered a graven image, because it is an image that is graven.
Also, I didn't say it needed to be "idol worship" I just said that out of my mouth. What's important is what Exodus 20 says. Exodus 20, as I have demonstrated says not to bow to a graven image. Statues are graven images, are they not?
I'm not saying "no you're wrong" I'm quoting Exodus 20.
>>59967828 >Uh, do you know what "graven image" means I literally translated the german word used for you
>Which would include a statue, would it not? NO. It means an objext you worship.
>What's important is what Exodus 20 says I TOLD YOU WHAT IT SAYS
>I'm not saying "no you're wrong" I'm quoting Exodus 20 Except that Exodus 20 agrees with me
>I'm pretty sure it means >Is a statue not a graven image? A statue is surely considered a graven image, because it is an image that is graven. Never mind you smug condescending autist. It's not like you're willing to overthink your position anyway.
Looks like it >As a congregation of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, St. James welcomes people of all races, cultures, ethnicities and, as a Reconciling in Christ congregation, people of all sexual orientations and gender identities.
>The LCMS left this group in the 50s That's not accurate. LCMS never was part of the ELCA. The LCMS doesn't want to join WELS so much as it would like WELS to return to fellowship with the LCMS as they were before the 1950s.
Also the ELCA only formed in 1987 after decades of mergers among various churches, mostly differentiated along ethnic/language lines but also with some differences in terms of how they related to the state churches of the countries they left.
Denomination doesn't matter, christian is christian.
Look in the kitchen to see who is handing out coffee and donuts.
Those ladies who work the kitchen in the back is why men have to be assholes. Keeping those ladies safe is what being white is about. Its feeling the blood rush to your face when you read a story about one of those little old ladies getting punched or robbed.
Its about freedom too, but the end goal is to keep those saint who give everyone the benefit of the doubt safe thats it.
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