OLD THREAD: >>59954947
>family owns lands since the 1870s
>fed has wanted your land for years to turn into a wildlife reservoir (i.e. make money)
>never sell to them regardless of their constant jewry
>2001, routine bush fire on property
>tell fire department beforehand, accidentally 100 acres of federal land, put it out yourselves
>2006, lightning storm starts bush fire on your property
>start backfire to push it away from your private property
>cops show up next day and press charges , go to court
>get tried and convicted, sentenced to a year in jail
>go to prison for roughly one year
>get let out, government says you've served your time
>2011, feds want your land again, still won't sell
>feds issue re sentencing convicting you of domestic terrorism
>minimum of 5 more years in federal prison
>now convicted of terrorism and must serve 5 more years in prison
>150 men and women strong armed milita with tons of ex-military occupy gouverment building
>boolicker liberals call them terrorists, don't look into what happend
>claim if they would be muslim or black they would be treated like terrorists so they can do their moral circle jerk and make it about race
>some are so tolerant to want these rednecks to be murdered by the feds (you don't negotiate with terrorists suddenly)
>paid /pol/ shills call them traitors, ignore them
>>feds issue re sentencing convicting you of domestic terrorism
Quit spreading lies OP.
after the first fed standoff thing theres probably people all over the country traveling there
As a swede this is completely incomprehensible to me, and it goes to show you why only the government has guns in civilized countries. You know, the very premise of civilization is obeying your own government. Do you think a government would carry out a terror attack? Do you think they would have managed to carry out this terror attack with spoons? If your answer to both these questions are not No then you're a small dick hillbilly troglydyte and Obama should put you down for the benefit of all Enlightened americans.
trports are 10-15 peopl are actuall at the building not hundreds, also these guys couldve picked a better spot
This is not the actual thread theme song
I hate liberals in general.
It's one thing to believe in an ideology that is wrong because you are misled.
It's quite another to KNOW you are wrong, and then lie and believe in lies to prop up that ideology instead of just admitting you were wrong.
Denial of reality has become a liberal hallmark, because facts are inconvenient to a narrative they're now married to.
>Your freedoms are not secured by God
Yes they are OP. The idea even the liberal founding fathers had with this idea is that our rights are inalienable gifts from God. You never lose your right to them ever no matter what any man will say to scare you. The reason why they say to trust in God in this regard is to believe you don't need anything else to confirm that our rights exist.
For people to believe that it's just a document or just an idea from the past and not a timeless truth, that is how people are demoralized to hand in their weapons and stop standing up for themselves.
On the defense of the exercise of rights though, firearms and other weapons are key to maintaining liberty, especially from tyrants who do not believe in God given rights.
I firmly believe there will be a small revolt across America if they get Waco'd or Ruby Ridged'. People are well armed and well informed these days to let the government get away with that kind of crap.
OP BEING RETARDED, EVERYONE GET IN ONE THREAD
WE CAN SAVE THIS ONE FOR AFTER THE CURRENT REAL THREAD.
POLAND FUCK OFF< YOU'RE SPLITTING HALF OF US UP>
GO HOST AN INVASION
Daily reminder that there's probably already black people in the mix, just like there was at Bundy Ranch and the Oathkeepers group in Ferguson, and blacks/liberals will still call them all "white supremacists".
it's about hispanics or the guns?
Are you leaving something out about the backfire they created? Was it on land they owned or was it federal land? Did it kill anybody?
What's with people saying they weren't charged with domestic terrorism?
Is resentencing a real thing?
If only he was still alive today.
I know exactly what he would do in this very moment.
>not knowing how to bypass the login
>Are you leaving something out about the backfire they created?
From what I understand the two controlled burns got out of control.
>Was it on land they owned or was it federal land?
>Did it kill anybody?
>Is resentencing a real thing?
>Are you leaving something out about the backfire they created? Was it on land they owned or was it federal land? Did it kill anybody?
The reason they went to jail is because they confessed to starting two fires
>What's with people saying they weren't charged with domestic terrorism?
They were never charged with terrorism, the law they were charged under was created for domestic terrorism
>Is resentencing a real thing?
Yes, the judge that originally sentenced them didn't do so in accordance with Mandatory Minimum Sentencing and since they confessed they waived their right to appeal
No it didn't kill anybody. The backfire wasn't properly controlled and burned more land than intended. Normally this would see them fined, but because the federal government has been trying to push them off the land for decades they are being charged with arson and terrorism purely out of spite.
Basically, some cranks living in the woods think that they have the right to burn down a federal wildlife preserve. Literally no sympathy for these jackasses.
I do not get how anyone supports any of this. What happened to rational dialogue? What happened to not letting your baser emotions dictate your politics? That's what is wrong with this country. Everyone is so afraid of anything they disagree with. Everyone on every side needs to fucking check themselves.
Dubs confirm the current year.
not even,the guy who actually burned the shit and has to go to prison doesn't even want these faggots there...
the only positive is how butthurt niggers and white guilt faggots are over this
Are these guys related to the faggot who won't pay his grazing fees? Fuck that thief, if these people are associated with him I hope they all burn to death from an "accidental" fire just like those cultists. Uncle Sam is in the right 99% of the time
I don't even want to talk about how retarded your picture is.
But actually this issue was a giant debate for years now in this county, it's just getting country wide attention now.
The fuck? It's literally standard practice to burn off invasive species in Oregon. It's been in practice since the natives controlled the area. Hell, the fucking FEDS practice controlled burns too, they do the exact same shit. Only nobody charges them with arson when they fuck up. You are ignorant as hell.
You're missing the point sweetie, the only reason they did a "controlled burn" ( that they lost control of), was to hide evidence of their poaching of animals they had no legal right to kill
The guys who were charged fully intended to to go back to prison. The ones who objected were their family and neighbors, who staged a protest in town over it. Then the Bundy people heard about it and decided to stage a more dramatic protest with the occupation of the building.
Lightning storm in 2006 started a fire on land adjacent to Hammond Property.
Hammonds started a backfire to push it away from their land.
Fire got out of control and burned one acre of federal land. No injuries/deaths.
Exactly. So charge them for negligence and fine them and then ban them from starting more fires. In fact they actually were fined $400,000 dollars in addition to the prison sentences. Which they are still in the process of paying off by the way. Yet for some reason that isn't a good enough punishment.
The government has been trying to get ranchers near the reserve to sell their land for decades. Even now they're trying to make the Hammond family sell their land to the government.
Do you have a single shred of evidence to back that up?
the feds are saying they started the fire on federal land to try to cover up an illegal deer hunt
would they have been convicted if they'd really just done some routine, common-sense burning?
it'd be nice if the media would actually answer these questions instead of just being all "wakarimasenlol"
> lightning storm
> crime they didn't commit
No, they opened fire on dozens and dozens of deer in front of tourists, killing some of the deer and wounding others, then told the tourists to get the fuck out then lit the land on fire causing a 139 acre forest fire.
There was NO lightning storm that day.
Read the court documents
They were charged for negligence, and it wasn't enough punishment because it didn't meet MMS. I don't agree with that since the fires only cause under 5000 worth of damage and the resentencing is outside of the 2 week window for that kinda thing so I'm sure they are working on appealing the sentencing.
Except that they DIDN'T do that. The government simply CLAIMS that they did.
The ranchers lease the land, dindus pay the feds nothing.
The ranchers abide by the law and served their time after being convicted. The feds violate their rights by sending them back to prison. The dindus attack police and get shot which is just.
People sympathetic to the ranchers take over an empty federal building in the middle of nowhere. Nothing is damaged and no one is hurt. Dindus riot, destroy private and public property, hurt many.
But yeah, totally the same.
>I know nothing about insurgencies
>I know nothing about modern coups
>I know nothing about geopolitics, and that Russia,Iran and North Korea would support rebels.
Either you're a bootlicking faggot that needs to go back to Reddit, or your baiting. In which case, here's your reply.
The situation is obvious, there is information being withheld from the masses, but seeing these "Vets" and "Conservatives" gives me a glimmer of hope. We need to fire up the full /pol/ counter propaganda unit and flood the hashtag with red pilled graphics and narrative.
The American spirit may have died in you, but not all of us. So sure, I'll give up my rights the moment Tyrone and his boys pull out of your wife and she starts loving you again.
Damn, I wish I was a redneck.
>tfw live in Alabama and still not a redneck
>Then the Bundy people heard about it and decided to stage a more dramatic protest with the occupation of the building.
Remember when armed black lives matter patrolled the streets and threatened to kill cops over Ferguson and shit? No?
"oink oink bang bang a pig is a pig that's what I said, the only good pig is a pig that's dead"
Peaceful protest guys, move along. Just expressing their constitutional rights :^)
Upstanding black citizens.
What about when they "occupied" a police station with guns and threatened to kill police again over Sandra Bland, who is confirmed to have killed herself. Lmao
JUST A PEACEFUL GATHERING OF NOBLE UPSTANDING AFRICAN AMERICANS EXPRESSING THEIR 1ST AND 2ND AMENDMENT CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS
Why are liberals and the news so fucking stupid?
>burn stores down
>loot for months
>set fire to cars
>shootings break out
>do all crime just about
>dont blame them!
>white people do 1/1000th of that
>WHITE DOMESTIC TERRORISM!!!!!!!!!
evidence was presented at trial
don't forget a jury convicted them.
Frankly, the Bundies are a bunch of crazy white gibmedats who are using a bunch of neoconfederate bullshit to gin up support for their retarded demand that they the federal government give them land for free.
Where's the evidence that the government was trying to buy their land, and willing to lodge bullshit charges to pressure them, no less? This is a very serious accusation against the government.
I've actually been to the malheur wildlife refuge. It's a shitty little place with some lovely nature, and the people didn't seem like the type to pull this kind of machiavellian shit.
>bringing the displaced people back to this county
They're hypocrites with selective memories. There is literally nothing wrong with armed protests. I was fine with the Mike Brown protesters doing it even though Brown was in the wrong. Double standards are for cucks.
Except they didnt, and no one died, and not a shot was fired, and no stores were looted or burned down, and the gov was objectively wrong when it was found they killed his horses and buried them, and some senator was gunning for the land to sell to china in a land deal for solar panels
Fuck off nigger lover
>The ranchers lease the land
the bundy shit was about them not paying, though
thanks for ignoring my posts and jumping on something some retard said
>There is literally nothing wrong with armed protests.
depends what you mean by wrong
There's the principle of standing up for yourself, and the responsibility to calibrate your actions to the validity and seriousness of the grievance.
>and the gov was objectively wrong when it was found they killed his horses and buried them
can you guys stop changing your arguments all the time? Only stupid people get convinced that way, the rest of us just see people who are full of shit.
Aside from the meme-ing and obvious edginess that is about to ensue: I'd have no problem with killing these filthy pseudo-intelectuals deader than dead.
How the fact can they claim that fucking mike brown nigger is the same as what it happening here? Uppity fucks and their false equivalencies make me sick.
They're not defending their rights, so much as trying to get away with defrauding the government by using bored people desperate to be seen as important as pawns.
>Except they didnt
All the rest of the post is changing the argument over and over out of desperation.
too bad this argument will become obsolete as soon as the government can kill people with quadcopters and "grey goo" instead of putting real lives on the line. Civilians can fight men, but they can't fight machines, nor do they have the resources to construct an effective counterforce.
>If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States conspire...by force to seize, take, or possess ANY property of the United States contrary to the authority therof, they shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not more then 20 years, or both.
18 USC Section 2384
>some senator was gunning for the land to sell to china in a land deal for solar panels
By "some Senator" you mean Harry Reid. That myth lasted for about an hour before it was exposed as a laughable lie. They even made fun of it here on Canadian news.
Pic related was the proposed Chinese backed solar location before the entire proposal was scrapped in 2013.
Infowars claimed this was on Bundy's land. The solar deal also fell apart a year before the standoff because the Chinese investor believed the solar project would lose money.
Infowars stuck to the narrative that Senator Reid was trying to take Bundy's land and give it to China. They had created their own reality bubble and had no room for facts, maps, or timelines.
Here is a map of an alien ship
Its real because here is a map
>waa why do I have to post sources
>this vague topic with many claims is simple conjecture guys I dont need sources waa!
2+2=4 is simple conjecture, the sky is blue and water is wet is simple shit that needs no sources.
I can give you 1000 sources. Every local paper in north america covered that ruse.
here is a random one:
Ft Mohave is nowhere near bunkerville. Pick up a fucking atlas if you believe I am trying to trick you with a fake map.
>get blown the fuck out
>hurr ur a fag kill self plz
>I can give you a thousand sources
>here is one
>the "source" is just a wall of text with no sources
infowars naturalnews christiandaily tier source
BLM has not occupied by force Federal property. The distinction is very simple.
This is a Federal Headquarters building. Admittedly, the HQ for a fucking duck pond, but still a Federal office. On Monday, the Park Rangers, agents of the Federal Government will need to go to work to carry out their lawful duties. Mainly, looking after said duck pond.
At which point, should the Bundy Boys, through even the implied threat of violence via their many guns, prevent the Rangers from carrying out their duties, then the Bundy Boys are guilty of forcibly seizing federal property.
The Bundy family responsible for this protest had a similar protest many years ago because he didn't want to pay taxes for farming cattle on federal land, and he demanded more subsidies.
No, the precedent of similar civil disobedience and the constitutional ramifications thereof is the line of reasoning I want to use.
When BLM closes down a freeway they're possessing government land. When they block access to a statehouse or a college campus they are possessing government land.
Students close down colleges all the time and it's not sedition.
One of the charges being levied against the hammonds is violation of their BLM permit, which would amount to using federal property without proper payment which is using tax payer money to subsidise your business illegally
Also here is an article from 2012 when the site (located 90 miles south of las vagas) was selected for the chinese solar farm:
>He and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert.
>The Langfang, China-based ENN Energy Group hopes to build what would be the largest solar energy complex in America. The site chosen with Rory Reid's guidance is in tiny Laughlin, Nevada, a gambling town of 7,300 along the Colorado River, 90 miles south of Las Vegas.
>90 miles south of Las Vegas
The Bundy ranch was northeast of las vagas. The solar farm was 90 miles of an hour south, accordign to the reuters article from 2012.
Are you telling me the jews traveled back to 2012 and changed this article just to make infowars look bad?
So far all you guys have done is refuse to post sources then post one with no proof, much like infowars. Lmao
Keep trying to pretend you are not a shill.
>Nevada only has one location with proposed solar farms
>here is a link discussing an entire different location years before bundy ranch incident
Not quite Australia tier yet, keep trying Canada, you get it eventually
These are valid legal points, but the reason it never reached the point of Sedition is two fold.
Point 1 is that the stated goal of said students and BLM was not to overturn US law or Federal Authority. A hair splitting distinction true, but its an important one for the second reason.
Point 2. is that BLM and the College students did not use weapons to enforce their "occupation" of college buildings or said federal court house. There was no threat of a pitched gun battle in order to require the government to retake the building.
This part of US law is very, very rarely trotted out. And I agree, the Feds won't want to trot it out. They would be thrilled for this to go down with basic trespassing charges. But that implies that the people here surrender once they are ordered to disperse.
If they attempt to hold the area, and back up the effort with weapons, then they will have checked all the boxes for a Sedition charge.
LOL, all this butthurt.
Fucker started unauthorised "controlled" burns that went out of control every single time, actively refused to get a bloody permit and then whines when he doesn't get to enjoy the gains from a judge giving him an illegal sentece that broke the mandatory minimum.
Eh, now his little militia is going to get fucked up by the law. Not even because of what he did, but because no functional government can ever tolerate this kind of bullshit.
>we cannot compare the #BLM movement with #OregonUnderAttack
This faggot is so out of touch with the situation that he thought the acronym for Bureau of Land Management stood for Black Lives Matter. These are the people you share the country with, everyone.
Good to see the Sam Hyde shitposting is in full effect.
>Nevada only has one location with proposed solar farms
One backed by Reid and China? yes
That kind of stands out. It made a lot of news in 2012 due to the possible conflict of interest. Reid, as a Nevada senstor, should not be investing in energy projects in his own state. partnering with China for the project raised more alarm bells.
This is partially why the plan was abandoned in 2013. Bad PR and Chinese investors backed out.
Near as anyone can tell, infowars simply made the whole thing up because "lol same state, close enough. Our readers won't check anyway".
How often does resentencing happen in court cases where they originally got less than the mandatory minimum? Does this violate double jeopardy rights? Only thing I'm left unsure of about this.
It most certainly is double jeopardy when they finished they sentence the judge gave them. Because of the charges of "terrorism" the minimum sentence was 5 years, but the federal judge overruled it, claiming it was a violation of the 8th Amendment. They got out and now the FWS wants them back in for the same thing.
>How often does resentencing happen in court cases where they originally got less than the mandatory minimum? Does this violate double jeopardy rights?
It happens, it's not super rare or anything. And it doesn't violate double jeopardy because the first sentencing is technically illegal.
>Because of the charges of "terrorism"
There is no charge of terrorism.
The way I heard it Oregon state court decided one year was fair even though the mandatory minimum for arson on Federal land is five years. The feds got a grand jury to agree, hence making them do the full five years
Can somebody link me to a source that shows the domestic terrorism charges? My bluepilled libcuck coworker doesn't believe me and I don't have time to search it up here at work on my phone.
No, it's their own property. The controlled burning also took place on the Bundy's property. The federal gov. has been trying to buy their land for quite some time, but they have always said no. Afterwards the gov. hit them with taxes or more recently accused them of arson.
The community is tired of the goverment's abuse of their rights and have taken the reserve, which was created from the seized land of local farmers and ranchers.
>thats what they were convicted under
No they weren't, there were never any terrorism charges against them.
There is no source for it because it didn't happen.
Read the fucking court documents
Reminder that the federal government already owns all land in the United States, which is why you pay property taxes.
No, the DEFENSE claimed that their clients were being treated like terrorists. The actual thing they are charged with is Arson.
I swear. Nobody fact checks anymore. Whatever will fit the narrative.
The family arrested is not the Bundies. Hammonds are the ones that were convicted of arson. Bundies are basically the Libertarian's Sharpton, starting a protest just to stir up controversy.
No, they are going to Jail for Arson. The original sentence was overturned because the Judge failed to follow Federal minimum sentencing guild lines for Arson.
Minimum Sentences sure do suck when its not Niggers getting sent up state.
I live near a city where there's a ton of jobs for engineers. So a lot of the people here come from families of engineers. So the area I'm in is like half nerds and half rednecks.
>that feel when all these "militia" terrorists are going to be arrested and convicted of felonies, thus eliminating the possibility they'll ever influence American elections again
For the people that don't read this is what they were found guilty of
> Use of Fire to Damage and Destroy Property of the United States, in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 2 & 844(f)(1)
Notice, no mention of terrorism.
>thats what they were convicted under
Here are the official records for those who care:
Terrorism is never mentioned.
>The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.
>The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.
>By law, arson on federal land carries a five-year mandatory minimum sentence. When the Hammonds were originally sentenced, they argued that the five-year mandatory minimum terms were unconstitutional and the trial court agreed and imposed sentences well below what the law required based upon the jury’s verdicts. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, however, upheld the federal law, reasoning that “given the seriousness of arson, a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense.” The court vacated the original, unlawful sentences and ordered that the Hammonds be resentenced “in compliance with the law.” In March 2015, the Supreme Court rejected the Hammonds’ petitions for certiorari. Today, Chief Judge Aiken imposed five year prison terms on each of the Hammonds, with credit for time they already served.
The terrorism charge doesn't exist.
Man, fuck Huntsville. Its mascot is a giant phallus.
Because he's the least likely to annoy them.
As one person pointed out, the're neither right wingers nor left wingers, they anarchists (not the type that just writes 'A' on private property) and want to be left the fuck alone.
Indeed. Which is why they got an Arson conviction. And the second conviction (they one they are going to prison for) was prejudiced due to a PRIOR Arson conviction.
No court goes easy on you the second time around.
>Being a dumbass and losing control of a fire makes you a dumbass, not a terrorist.
This dosn't sound liek "losung control of a fire"
>Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.
>Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.” One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.
>The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations. After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.
>Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
It was poaching and destruction of evidence with arson, but not terrorism.
All they were ever charged with was arson. not poaching, and certainley not "terrorism".
No, they're selfish would be secessionists.
Don't Germans have a similar group of people who claim that the German Reich never dissolved and that Prussia still belongs to Germany?
Well these are similar morons.
Oh so you, an outside observer with no knowledge of the events, know better then the 12 people on the Jury that had to sit through the Arson trial and reached a unanimous conviction of guilt beyond reasonable doubt?
TO THE COUNTRY
YOU DEEM MORE IMPORTANT.
Which is obviously MEXICO... since you place it first.
>No, they're selfish would be secessionists.
No that's trying to create a new state, the just want to be left alone on their ranch, no state at all
>Don't Germans have a similar group of people who claim that the German Reich never dissolved and that Prussia still belongs to Germany?
What does that have to do with anything?
>Well these are similar morons.
The only place that says he's mentally ill is the Bundys site and people copy pasting from their. All others say it was thrown out because of a feud involving the fact that Hammond took coarse sandpaper to the nephew and rubbed his skin raw as punishment
Oh you did? Cool, cool.
It's not even surprising that they're mostly loose desu.
>Note: never said they were attractive women. It is Alabama, after all.
Are the women in Alabama actually that unattractive compared to the rest of America?
actual thread theme song
If you don't want to interact with the legitimate government's laws and demands, then you are acting in opposition of both national and international laws, and probably trying to foment rebellion.
This is false. The fire was on their own property. Where are the citations and evidence of Hammond actually saying that he wanted to "light up the whole country?" aside from what some said.
heresay is not evidence. And why that was told to the jury as fact sounds like gross negligence and mishandling of court case.
If that guy had not spent all his money on dozens of guns he has no use for (srsly, 1 will do, you are not rambo bro) then maybe he could have afforded a flat screen TV rather then that small 8 inch vacuum tube lulz box.
>Where are the citations and evidence of Hammond actually saying that he wanted to "light up the whole country?" aside from what some said.
That is what the witnesses in the court room told the jury.
>"The Hammonds declared themselves sovereign citizens in court and waived the right to attorney"
No wonder they got convicted of terrorism.
AM I BEING DETAINED OR AM I FREE TO BURN?
Here you go, use on twitter
actually he got shot for being an asshole in a spanish enclave neighborhood. sanford is a fucking hateful town full of little racial enclaves that all hate each other like the puerto ricans vs. the cubans, vs, the dominicans, vs the various other carribeans vs the blacks vs etc. no one like anyone else in that town.
That's not what hearsay is. Hearsay is when you say you heard somebody say they heard something. You witnessing the accused say something is not hearsay.
Yes, that's what witnesses are dumbass.
Why are you letting people feed you half truths and misinfo when the court records and actual time lines are all available online? What you posted is a chain letter designed to trigger an emotional response among people who are not informed and do not desire to be informed.
Why do infowars people never seek out the actual facts for themselves? It took 11 seconds for me to find the actual court transcripts. Pic very related.
But no, they insist on letting viral chain letters and youtube personalities make up their minds for them. They exist on a 100% spoonfed diet and have the audacity to call other people "sheeple".