Morality general

>>59944473
Common human decency

Conscious well-being. Yes, including that of animals.

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WWGD

What would Goku do?

golden rule

>>59944473

logic

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>>59944473
doesnt exist
only facts exist

>>59944473
morality is 100% objective. its based on nothing but truth. morality is the principles (truths) concerning the difference between right (true) and wrong (false). its quite simple, lying or hiding your true intentions is immoral. the new age movement has been so deceived as to try to assign new meaning to words.

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>>59946299
me too

>>59946299
>>59946619
>implying the golden rule isn't ass backwards
It literally tells masochists to cut people up.

>>59946589
But like.. What makes lying immoral?

>>59946416
What gives a good reason to not murder?
If I could get away with it, hide it so nobody notices, then it could be moral.

>>59944931
What is humanly decent?

I think what would happen if everyone did it. If I don't want to live in that hypothetical world, I don't do it.

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>>59947579
yeah murder away. i only dont do it because the punishment is worse than the benefits.

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>>59944473
Empathy

>>59944473
Whatever is most effective and logical. I have very little regard for my own opinion.

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>>59944473

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We are all the same; one soul, one consciousness. Any other person is really just me; anything hateful I say toward them, any theft I commit against them, any act of violence I commit against them, I'm really just committing against a different manifestation of my spirit. Therefore, I speak no hate, steal from no one, and commit no violence.

>>59948050
enjoy getting stepped on by others your whole life

>>59944473
my personal experience.

>don't be a dick
>don't worry about what other people do unless it hurts me
it's pretty much libtard morals but it's so much easier. I don't have to constantly get butthurt even though abortion is fucked
only thing I care about is freedom

All of my good moral behavior is pantomime, I don't really care about how I treat others. Fuck them.

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>>59947894
Meh, horde empathy is really relative. For myself, kin relations, then work relations, maybe a tiny percentage of nationalism but has been fading for years, everything else is do what thy will while sticking within the bounds of society as to not stand out too much. I know life isn't a spectator sport but sometimes its better that way. I take myself in and out of the rotation on my own terms.

>>59948113
If such acts are initiated against me, I'll still defend myself. But I prefer to be a force for good. I lead by example and hope that others will follow.

Hunter-gatherers tend to have an egalitarian social ethos, although settled hunter-gatherers (for example, those inhabiting the Northwest Coast of North America) are an exception to this rule. Nearly all African hunter-gatherers are egalitarian, with women roughly as influential and powerful as men.[9]

The egalitarianism typical of human hunters and gatherers is never total, but is striking when viewed in an evolutionary context. One of humanity's two closest primate relatives, chimpanzees, are anything but egalitarian, forming themselves into hierarchies that are often dominated by an alpha male. So great is the contrast with human hunter-gatherers that it is widely argued by palaeoanthropologists that resistance to being dominated was a key factor driving the evolutionary emergence of human consciousness, language, kinship and social organization.[10][11][12]

Anthropologists maintain that hunter/gatherers don't have permanent leaders; instead, the person taking the initiative at any one time depends on the task being performed.[13][14][15] In addition to social and economic equality in hunter-gatherer societies, there is often, though not always, sexual parity as well.[13] Hunter-gatherers are often grouped together based on kinship and band (or tribe) membership.[16] Postmarital residence among hunter-gatherers tends to be matrilocal, at least initially.[17] Young mothers can enjoy childcare support from their own mothers, who continue living nearby in the same camp.[18] The systems of kinship and descent among human hunter-gatherers were relatively flexible, although there is evidence that early human kinship in general tended to be matrilineal.[19] A few groups, such as the Haida of present-day British Columbia, lived in such a rich environment that they could remain sedentary or semi-nomadic, like many other Native Americans of the Pacific Northwest coast.

>>59947579
>What is humanly decent?

IMO, it is that which does not incite anger/sadness/despair in other humans

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>>59944473
>>59948332
My morality is based on the fact that we are literally wild animals.

I am going to accept that my brain is wired to be a tribal forest ape that's natural state is living and working in a group of 100-200 individuals.

>>59947579
>What is humanly decent?

The opposite of humanly indecent.

>>59944473
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU5piTnA6EQ

Good Roman values.

The Bible.

Morality was invented by the weak to make the strong feel guilty for being strong.

I generally attempt to treat people how I like to be treated. I don't like being punched in the face, so therefore I don't punch people in the face.
Good enough?

That being said, I usually stay away from most people. I enjoy my solitude, so I don't have to take part in this crap.

>>59948572
No it is a natural human construct meant to make you a working member of a group you cringey fuck. Even monkeys have an inherent concept of morality.

>>59947894
You might want to remind the Muslims of that empathy.

>>59948661
In all likelihood you have some disgusting and vile views that lack empathy.

>>59948773
Absolutely. Everyone is inherently evil. That is why we need Christ.

>>59948855
Evil is a mostly social construct that is not objectively bad in all cases.

>>59946299
>it's not gay if the balls don't touch

fucking degenerate

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>>59948855
>Everyone is inherently evil
You seem to be projecting. Look for the goodness in your heart rather than seeking an external source for it.

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Moral relativists are the worst cancer humanity has ever faced.

>>59948966
That is exactly what a evil spirit would say.
>>59949000
I'm just repeating what Christ taught.

>>59948348
have fun in your safe space

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>>59944473
Rational self-interest

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>>59949044
Except evil isn't a real tangible thing and we're literally a species of wild ape.

>>59949290

So go live in the woods and fuck animals you jackass.

>>59949032
Everyone's morals are subjective and relative you boner. I'm not going to apologize for accurately assessing reality.

>>59949320
No humans in 2016 generally live in complex societies and I enjoy this part of life. We're still animals.

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>>59946416

>>59949365

Even the most basic tribal society has moral absolutes. Don't kill, don't steal, etc. These things are seen as immoral because they damage the social structure.

It's about human survival, what is best for the group.

You are not an animal that runs on instinct, you are a human being. Act like one.

Utilitarianism, mixed with a bit of selfishness.

>>59949032
This
I try to act as ETHICALLY as possible in my every day life.
Morality is like a sports team you stand behind no matter what, just like religion it just gives people a soap box to stand on and the ability to shut off their brains and let the doctrine do the talking

>>59944473

reason evidence logic.

>>59949491
Yeah and our societies are so much more massive and complex than tribes. I would never steal from my family, friends, acquaintances or people in my community, but it's justifiable in many cases.

You are an animal that runs on instinct, we all are. You are more closely related to a chimp than a chimp is to a gorilla. Nearly everything you do, think and feel can be traced back to an evolutionary biology function.

>>59944473
Qu'ran.

>>59949491
Stealing in general, not from the groups I named of course.

>>59949659
>but it's justifiable in many cases.

It's not, you fucking idiot.

>You are an animal that runs on instinct, we all are. You are more closely related to a chimp than a chimp is to a gorilla. Nearly everything you do, think and feel can be traced back to an evolutionary biology function.

Yet we don't sit in trees eating shit and howling at each other, while eating the dead young of our neighbors. I wonder why that is.

>>59949365
Sure they're all subjective, but under moral relativism, you could justify anything. It's literally societal cancer.

>>59949763
Yet you're getting legitimately upset that I don't fit into your idea of your group. This makes you see me as a tribal outsider. You're an ape anon, just accept it.

Our complex technology and buildings developed over millions of years of technological advancement does not change that we are bloodthirsty tribal apes.

>>59948050
>>59949000
I like you Romania.
We could be friends.

>>59944473
The bible

And memes

>>59949788
Not really. If you go by your culture's morals you can't justify anything completely individually.

Once again, I accept that some of our morals are built in when dealing with an inner circle of 150 or so of the closest people in our lives.

>>59949908

And here come the metaphors.

>we kill each other just like monkeys anon, we're all animals

Yet you sit there on your computer or smartphone enjoying the fruits of a society that shuns such behavior, even if it understands it's sometimes necessary.

Just because we do immoral things doesn't mean they are automatically just or moral you fucking incredible moron.

Go to Africa and live in the jungle, see how far your relative morals get you. I'm sure the locals will enjoy you freely harming them and stealing their property.

>>59944473
Dont do harm to others unless they mean to do harm to you.

>>59944473
By asking the simple question: is it good for Whites?

>>59950054
Anon your moral construct is subjective based on your culture and individual upbringing. Keep raging, it's not going to change that. There is no one right set of objective morals.

>>59944473
Myself
I, and my goals, are the Ultimate Good
Anything that gets in my way or hinder that is the Ultimate Evil

>>59944473
The non aggression principle. It's a universal moral principle that's the grounds for objective morality.

>>59950054
And technology is a non-argument. Giving chimps technology to use doesn't change the fact that they are chimps.

>>59950190
>Anon your moral construct is subjective based on your culture and individual upbringing.

If humanity had differing morals based on culture, only the ones who had similar morals would survive.

There is a right, and specific set of objective morals, and every human being is alive today because of them.

Otherwise you would have been murdered and fed to your siblings to ease someone else's burden. Like a mindless ape that's stuck howling in the treetops.

>>59950014
No, under moral relativism, you could easily justify anything, because "lel morals are subjective."

>>59944473
To answer the OP though, I've developed all of my personal morals myself through life experience. I base them on if their mine or not. If it's my moral belief, I should be able to argue in support of why it's good. If it's not mine, it's wrong and I should be able to argue against it.

Morals only turn sour when you have retards like >>59950220 believe in absolute moral guidelines that can't be held consistently.

>>59950368
>If humanity had differing morals based on culture, only the ones who had similar morals would survive.

Nah.

>There is a right, and specific set of objective morals, and every human being is alive today because of them.

>Otherwise you would have been murdered and fed to your siblings to ease someone else's burden.

Already addressed this. Beyond a group of 100-200 people in your life, your morals are almost entirely constructed for you. You inherently don't want to hurt or steal from that small group, outside of that it gets blurry.

>>59950502
Largely subjective to culture. Every culture has a set of morals.

>>59950560
So what? If it's not mine, it's wrong, and I can argue against it.

>>59944473
internal compass

>>59950605
Right. That makes morality subjective to your culture.

>>59944473
I base it on what I dont want people to do to me.

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>>59950666
>Moral relativist
>666

>>59950790
I find it crazy how completely alien this idea is to you guys. I assumed that by adulthood most people have this figured out. If every culture has different norms, rules, laws and morals, morality is subjective.

I'm a bit of a cunt to people but it's hard to soar like an eagle while you're surrounded by turkeys ect. I like to think I have a good moral compass, I have always had a positive impact on my local community, I volunteer doing different stuff, used to be environment but more working with kids now due to the nature of my business which also does a bit of work for underprivileged kids. That being said I wouldn't hesitate to click my fingers if it meant every muslim or nigger dropped dead, my justification would be that it is for the greater good.

>>59950913
I never questioned the legitimacy of the concept. You're right. It's relative and subjective. So fucking what? Does that mean I should just ignore my morals and let people do what they want because it's subjective? Fuck off faggot. My morals are the best, if you disagree, argue with me.

>>59944473
If it trys to kill you. Kill it first.

No joke. All the rest is pretty much respecting every one. If they don't respect you and don't want to be civil. Fuck it.

>>59944473

There should be a scientific study of morality:

a few groups of people commit some sins and then they solve some puzzle or you somehow measure how happy or healthy they are

> mfw it pays to be immoral

>>59951078
I don't know what your moral set is. I assume it's either christian or secular conservative american beliefs.

>>59944473
I'm a consequentialist.

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>>59951291
I'm not religious.

Cosmic fairness
Aka: nothing

>>59951384
Good thing I made two guesses, one of which is without religion.

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>>59944473
on nothing,
but I follow it as it is my everything.

>>59950054
Modern society was built on the stealing of other people's stuff.

>>59951359
I don't get the whole "the ends don't justify the means" conflict.

It all depends on how you define the means case by case. Killing a human is wrong, but killing in self defense is just, because you would argue the means were killing a potential murderer which is separate from "killing a human."

Doesn't this just boil down to how you define the terms?

>>59949520
> I try to act ethically
and I try to calculate mathematically.

Ethics are standards that govern the conduct of a person, so basically you are saying you are trying to act according to a standard. Congratulations on not completely acting randomly (unless randomness is your standard you act along in which case >>>/b/ is that direction).

You have a very shallow way of looking at ethical standards if you think it is just a soap box to stand on. That is exactly what a moral relativist would say.

The opposite, a moral absolutist, would say that his moral standard is the only reasonable way of acting. Which is ridiculous since you can always come up with a particular situation in which any moral standard does not work.

>>59951854
What about war anon? You say killing is wrong outside of self-defense, but do you really think that?

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>>59944473
>>59944473
the code

>>59950507
>Nah.

Yes, because the others would have killed each other off.

>Already addressed this. Beyond a group of 100-200 people in your life, your morals are almost entirely constructed for you. You inherently don't want to hurt or steal from that small group, outside of that it gets blurry.

>implying implications

So you are fine with killing/harming others because you simply don't know them? You have no idea how this could in turn cause harm to you?

It's amusing how intellectually undeveloped moral relativists are.

>>59944473
Teachings of Jesus

>>59951988
Have you never cheered on the shooting death of a black man by a cop /pol/smoker? I find that hard to believe.

>>59949664
>that flag
>that post

>>59952072

Even if I have, do you honestly think I condone senseless killing?

>>59951927
Killing in war is a form of self-defence as the situation on the front quite often becomes kill or be killed.

Otherwise, weakening the enemy's war effort is a way of defending your faction's interest, which in a very broad sense could still be considered self-defence.

>>59951927
I was just making an example. War could still be justified without invoking "the ends don't justify the means." It all depends on how you define the means and again boils down to personal morals/beliefs. If someone thinks that war isn't wrong, you can't call them out and say "the ends don't justify the means" because they don't think the means was wrong in the first place.

>>59944473
Where is an atheists moral barometer?

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>>59952036

I am a moral relativist. I do believe in the various representations of Will as a basis of one's behavior though. So on a personal level maybe I do believe in morals. But they're not the same for everyone.

Logic

>>59952160
Did I do that? No, I just said the lines get blurred beyond that tribal sized group. I don't advocate the killing of people and this is the most extreme example you could use. Lying and stealing are very much dependent of whether or not that person is outside your tribe.

>>59952238
I can already tell you're the type of person to reduce any argument to an absurd level where we're not saying anything.

>>59952284
I've laid out mine in this thread.

>>59951988
>>Nah.
>
>Yes, because the others would have killed each other off.

Have you ever met someone outside your own family?

People from the countryside and the city already act quite differently and very often have different moral values. So when people have different moral values they start killing each other off....

Do you ever think before you type out anything?

>>59944473
on a few simple things: approach everyone with best intentions, common sense, fairness and modesty whilst not being naive, essentially looking for win-win solutions to life's problems works for me

>>59952384
some men just want to see the world burn

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>>59944473
>I dont

>>59944473
"On liberty" by John Stuart Mil..

>>59952477
Lol

>>59952384
>I don't advocate the killing of people and this is the most extreme example you could use

Moral absolutes are not complex things, but they are constant. The moral aversion to violence without reason or justification is one of them.

>Lying and stealing are very much dependent of whether or not that person is outside your tribe.

And what if the other tribe can do you harm in turn? It's not simply a matter of familiarity or closeness. It's about SURVIVAL. Morality is absolutely linked to behaviors which ensure survival. And that means avoiding harm unless you can give a justification for it, which typically swings around to self-defense in some way.

>>59947920
Where can I take this test

>>59952597
Hold on man. I'm not defining morality as your behaviors you perform in order to not get you killed.

I'm saying it's what you consider right and wrong.

>>59952410
>Do you ever think before you type out anything?

Do you?

What do you think morality is?

It's not tradition or behavior of city vs rural folk.

>>59952787
Urban middle class liberals and rural forest people have significantly different morals.

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>>59944473
The Bible and Holy Spirit as a guide and teacher.
Faith to understand my personal limits as well as others.
Honesty to control the motivations and ends of my behavior.
Common sense and reasoning to discern implicit moral claims of others.

>>59952731

Right and wrong are things we created which are directly linked to that. Killing is "wrong" because it can cause direct harm to society or ourselves. And so on.

>>59952860

Give examples, so I can attempt to understand what the fuck you're trying to say.

>>59952910
Morality is usually not seen as the most practical way of doing things, it's more based on the feeling, "is this right or wrong"

>>59952961
Rural blue collar, likely christian conservatives have a very different moral code than urban or suburban middle class, non-religious liberals. Is this news to you?

Christianity and muh feels

>>59953061
>it's more based on the feeling

But it's not. It's based on tangible consequences.

>Rural blue collar, likely christian conservatives have a very different moral code than urban or suburban middle class, non-religious liberals. Is this news to you?

Things like believing homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry isn't exactly a moral issue anon. It's a religious belief. It's also heavily tied to government practice, which has absolutely nothing to do with right vs. wrong.

>>59953240
>Things like believing homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry isn't exactly a moral issue anon. It's a religious belief.

Anon do you even know what the fuck is going on right now?

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>>59948855
>needing God to stop you from hurting and exploiting others
>being this weak
Get on my fedora level niggers

>>59953317

Give examples, you're being incredibly vague.

>muh christian conservatives have different morals

EXPLAIN

>>59953365
You just named one. That is a difference in subjective morality regardless of whether religious beliefs have anything to do with the disparity.

>>59953365

Or rather, don't explain, because it proves my point.

I'm still curious what you think morals have to do with conservative vs. liberal ideals.

>>59953458
>I'm still curious what you think morals have to do with conservative vs. liberal ideals.

Almost fucking everything anon. They have distinct moral codes.

>>59953425
>That is a difference in subjective morality regardless of whether religious beliefs have anything to do with the disparity.

Believing certain people shouldn't be allowed to be married in your religious institution has nothing to do with right vs. wrong. THEY MADE IT UP, THEY CAN DECIDE WHO CAN OR CAN'T BE MARRIED. Just like the state can decide who can be officially recognized.

Morality has fuck all to do with religious beliefs.

>>59953240
>government practice
>has absolutely nothing to do with right vs. wrong

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there.

The way society is run has a lot to do with what people consider right and wrong. That is the whole reason why the justice system exists, to serve justice and to correct people who do wrong.

>>59953535
>Almost fucking everything anon. They have distinct moral codes.

Which you can't seem to outline.

>>59953564
>>59953594
Morality has a lot to do with religious beliefs. I am not a christian and I disagree with christians on many questions of morality.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that christians morality isn't determined by their religious beliefs?

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WWMD

>>59953581

Gay marriage specifically is a matter of fairness, not right vs. wrong.

It's not inherently "wrong" to keep people from being married. If we wanted we could abolish the whole institution, or let anyone marry.

>>59953694
>Are you seriously trying to tell me that christians morality isn't determined by their religious beliefs?

Atheists might assume they do, and Christians might literally believe they do, but at its most base, you do not need religion to follow the same moral absolutes.

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>>59953564

>>59953880
I didn't say you needed religion for morals. Anon are you being stupid on purpose? It really feels like you're missing every point I'm telling you.

>>59953880
>It's not inherently "wrong" to keep people from being married.

Says you. I think it's morally wrong to deny gay people the full legal rights of marriage.

>>59944473
Eudaimonia.

>>59948332
Are you fucking kidding me with this noble savage lefty bullshit?

>>59953880
If you think fairness you should act out of fairness, then that is a moral principle you hold.

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The brain is sacred and shall not be tampered with. No drugs, no alcohol. No anesthesia. It must be left in its pure state, people who alter their brain recreationally are degenerate and both unable to tap into the true potential which their brain holds as well as willing to sell off their independence to foreign substances.

Private property is a holy right and burglary is not only a crime but a demonic act. If someone breaks into your house, it is not only your right but your duty to kill them and send them to hell. The worst crime you can commit is to harm someone in their own home.

Devotion to God rather than denial or apathy. Atheists aren't people who don't believe in God, they are merely people who deny the fact that they pray in secret. To be a holy person you must use prayer and magic in your daily life.

A righteous government is formed not by competent leaders but by the people who enable it, therefore a degenerate society breeds terrible leaders while a holy society breeds good leaders. When a good government comes into place, it is a sign of prayers being answered, and the state is therefore holy and deserving of worship as an envoy of God.

>>59954088
Ignoring the natural state of humans when talking about issues of morality or human organization is nonsense. That state is how we evolved to be and we cannot escape it.

>>59953935

Yeah you got me, I hate religion and rednecks and [insert meme here].

>>59953948

What is your point then? What are you trying to say? You seem to be all over the place.

Just a minute ago you were saying certain people get their sense of morality from religion.

>>59954033

Why? What's wrong with civil unions? Why not form a different system that can account for everyone who simply decides to live together (since that seems to be the ultimate degenerate goal)?

>>59944473
Whatever maximizes happiness while minimizing suffering.

>>59954218
Anon I'm not arguing about this with you, I'm just telling you that morality is subjective and strongly influenced by your religion and belief system. I'm not all over the place, you are just pretty dumb.

>>59954119

It only appears right/wrong because the perception is that if it's not one way it must be the other. For most people it's either yes or no full stop.

Common sense.

>>59947894
Psychopaths have been shown to be good members of society, even while lacking empathy.

>>59947920
The test is very subjective; it doesn't take into account of other factors. Besides, is loyalty necessarily a moral trait? How can it be quantified?

>>59948566
This is obviously flawed. What makes a word have authority? Because God said so?

>>59949140
The self interest to flood the market with the demand of cuckold porn, if you're rich of course.

>>59949491
You had it half right then defeated your own argument.
Yes, murdering and stealing damage the social structure, but can be a blessing if we do these things for the benefit of good. But animals have this instinct as well.

>>59949664
>France
>Quran
*Big Surprise*

>>59950206
For all I know, you could be a psychopath who wants to murder my family. Your pleasures aren't your morals.

>>59950220
What's the biological basis for it?

>>59950502
I like your morals; they're not the same as mine, but getting close.

>>59951259
What does happiness have to do with morality and the "right" thing?

>>59951980
top kek m8

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morality is a spook
>m'property

>>59954321

>I'm telling you morality is subjective, without giving examples, and with assertions that certain groups of people believe different things, therefore morality is subjective
>also we're all apes therefore we should behave as such

Ok.

>Yes, murdering and stealing damage the social structure, but can be a blessing if we do these things for the benefit of good. But animals have this instinct as well.

That's why justification matters. We don't call it right or wrong to do those things until we hear the reasons why. Our morality tells us they are negatives otherwise.

High culture, technological advancement, and competence, especially intellectual competence.

To further and protect these things is the only morality I care for. I care little for suffering or happiness, although a successful civilisation will naturally lead to happiness and minimise suffering.

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>>59944473
Universally Preferable Behavior

>>59954816
Hahaha. The title is promising, but what about the author

>>59954376

if there is no G*d happiness is all you need here

others are hell

>>59954755
>I'm telling you morality is subjective, without giving examples, and with assertions that certain groups of people believe different things, therefore morality is subjective

Yes anon. That makes perfect sense and you are a drooling moron for not understanding that.

Coming back to OP >>59944473

I base my morality on how I can enjoy my time on earth to the fullest, directly and indirectly.

With indirectly I mean how I would choose not my own interest to respect other's interest (do unto others as you would have them do unto you) in the (sometimes vain) hope that others will respect my interests as well.

For me the idea of doing a good deed by helping others enjoy their time on earth is quite powerful so I try to help other people from time to time.

In my self-interest I won't help any beggar on the street, since my life is finite and I want to enjoy some quality posts on /pol/ as well while I'm on this earth.

>>59954755
I also used your example of gay marriage but you wrote it off as not a question of morality because one side is influenced by a religion, which to you is separate from morality. You are special.

>>59954816
>Stefan Molyneux
>Anarcho-capitalist cultist teaching anyone about ethics
He should be shot desu senpai.

>>59955242
>In my self-interest I won't help any beggar on the street
>since my life is finite and I want to enjoy some quality posts on /pol/
Is this cause and effect?

>>59955216

I think you just suck at making your case.

To regard pleasure as a basis of morality is degenerate.

The Golden Rule ignores the fact that people are different. They have different views on how they would like to be treated by others. They also DESERVE to be treated from one another.

>>59954816
>Listening to anyone who believes in the non-aggression axiom

The Bible

Practically, I'm a rational egoist with several levels of selective empathy. I have furthermore surmised that the purpose of my life is the continuation of my line in perpetuity.

If I had to pick an objective ethical system, it would be duty-based, e.g. Kantian.

Basic human morality.

Not the Bible, Christfags.

>>59955432
I tried anon and then you said that because religion influences the answer, it doesn't count as a moral question. You are a drooling moron.

https://www.reddit.com/user/TransgenderPride ..

>>59955485
Even though I hate /pol/ for unironically believing that Darwinism is relevant to a human society, at least most of you guys don't believe in the NAP.

>>59955180
In that case, it's morally objective to force people against their will to be hooked up to a machine that provides them eternal ecstasy. I feel shitty just thinking about that. It doesn't sound like a good idea, no matter how good chemical ecstasy feels. It doesn't make it "good", even though it could be eternal happiness.

>>59955411
Maybe I should have turned it around:

I care about myself
I like quality posts
helping other people means in the long run helping myself (I hope)
> le wild beggar on the street
Of course he can fuck off, I want to go home and help myself

O god, am I a fascist?

>>59947579
>what makes lying immoral?
try looking up the definition of the world morality. lying is immoral because you didnt distinguish the difference between what was right and what was wrong. you just said the wrong.
i know you relativists think that morality is whats "good" but thats not what the word actually means. "good" is a social construct that most of the time manifests itself through truth so it is lumped in synonym with right (truth).
moral relativism can not exist unless you are deceived into believing that no truths exist. which some people actually do believe.

>>59955295
>>59955667
>not a question of morality because one side is influenced by a religion

I said it's not a question of morality because marriage is a union created by the religious institution. They can marry whoever they want.

It's an issue to you because the state is involved, and there are tax breaks to be had. That has nothing to do with morality or right vs. wrong. It's about your perception of fairness. It's only "wrong" to deny gays the ability to marry because you think they deserve the same privileges. Is it morally wrong though? Are christians justified in protecting their beliefs or are you justified in demanding equality at their expense?

I'm saying it's not a moral issue. No one in this case is right or wrong.

>>59954199
Except that's not the "natural state of humans " it's a leftwing talk point constructed by ideological driven academics to justify their claims that communism is the natural state of man.

>>59955828
I don't think so, are you? However I do give to others if I want to, without thinking of what you or others think of that.

>>59955790
did you mean morally imperative instead of objective?

The flaw in that reasoning is that holding people somewhere against their will is not bad. While if you are held somewhere against your will, how can you be happy? Your example is too hypothetical imho tbqh senpai

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> It is a wrong and evil thing to cause harm to another person, where harm is defined as the infringement of the natural rights of life, liberty and property that all people possess, or the willful abandonment of an obligation one has taken
> Where harm has been committed, it must be redressed as soon as possible.
> The redress of wrongs should be limited in scope to the harm committed
> An evil person is someone who causes harm to other people without remorse or attempt at redress
> A good person is someone who takes on obligations to assist others in avoiding or mitigating harm

>>59944473
A mix of experience, logic and empathy, what else?

>>59944473
my gut.

At the end of the day it seems like even the most sophisticated and detailed philosophies on morality have been just trying to justify their gut feelings.

>>59956168
I try to not care about what other people think but it's hard sometimes and I consider myself much more independent than the average person I still notice that I'm limited in not caring about what other people say.

I am only ironically a fascist by the way, I detest any totalitarian regime as I live quite a comfortable life and anything that infringes with my self-actualisation I detest.

>>59956102
You can marry in church and you can marry before the state.

The whole gay-marriage discussion is about getting married for the state. Not sure how it works in the USA but here married people can get certain benefits that people just living together can't.

>>59955790

> 2016
> objective

it is complete chaos mate

I see immoral people happy and rich around me. Most Christians are poor and angry. And Hollywood is promoting satanism. Which means it is intended as a future world religion.

>>59947920
source to dat test breh

>>59956789
http://moralfoundations.org/

>>59956027
So is killing someone because they looked at you funny right or wrong? (Note that is the murderers true intention) Youve defined morality in a way that only applies to things which can be distingished as true or false.

>>59954977
>>59955316
>>59955485
Not an argument.

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>>59944473

In case anyone is wondering what my opinions are; I have a strict set of principles.

I base my morals on 2 principles and 3 tenets.
1st) Society is the standard of morality, lest: pleasure lead to degeneracy (Hedonism), and the might of one kills us all (Authoritarianism).

2nd) My well being, while being of secondary importance, is still important as long as it doesn't contradict the first principle.

1st Tenet: Physical likeness- Common identity and kinship are important; our likeness is our strength, lest we treat insects equal to our own, such as in moral relativists, or we de-personify (dehumanize) someone, such as in racism.

2nd Tenet: Cognitive empathy- Morality is a form of body language; we need to be able to figuratively "read and write it" to establish a good moral connection, lest our communication becomes decoherent, in which case we harm others without knowing what it means, such as in Autism.

3rd Tenet: Emotional Empathy- Empathy is a translator of our individual needs and desires into the language of morality, and we use it to establish a moral baseline, lest one feels no guilt from murder, such as in psychopathy.

Without any/one of those 2 principles or 3 tenets, we cease to be moral humans.

I use this system to really analyze a position I should take in daily life, and I've always taken a stronger position, because it always tends to be the more moral position.

>>59956184
You can be eternally happy if someone kills your family and hooks you up to a machine that doesnt allow you to think for yourself (therefore forgetting you had a family) while also giving you a contious flow of feel good chemicals that make you feel constant happiness and ecstasy. By definition, a "Persuit of happiness" approach to morality causes this kind of fucked up behavior.

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>>59944473
Default objective Divine Laws. The Laws of Meaning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0eOuxJX36g

>>59957057
its a wrong because you have no moral (true) authority to kill someone if they have not committed falsehoods against you. i was born with the capability to defend myself, just as you were. that is a fact. a truth. i cant change this just because somebody looks at me funny. so yes, it is an immoral act because it promotes falsehoods by infringing on anothers existence. you are now going down a very advanced road that requires time for reflection and confirmation to realize these truths.
a more basic example of an immoral act is, when a church tell you your donation money will go to feed the hungry and build schools when in reality they are using the money to fund vacations for themselves and lavish lifestyles. because that act is based in deception, it is immoral.
reiterating on the original question, intent means nothing. the action is what manifests into reality. and the action is immoral because it is not distinguishing truth from lie. all actions have consequences, a fundamental truth engrained into this existence. morality deals with universal truths, known as natural law. and these laws apply to others as well as yourself so infringing on truths is automatically immoral.
how do you infringe on a truth? promote a lie. killing an innocent person is promoting a lie because you have no truthful authority to commit such an act.
psychopaths say "do what thou wilt is the whole of the law" because they are born with the desire to infringe on others. they see no reason to be placed here and suffer by not doing what they want. i have no problem with people pursuing their desires. and they do pursue their desires to control. very effectively by promoting deceptions such as moral relativity so that their wills are somehow "justified". as long as people think that truth is subjective, people will be controlled by people with greater willpower and more force to implement that will. that is the truth of reality.

>>59957689
And nazi morality results in the third Reich, you can exaggerate any moral principle to the point that it doesn't make sense to follow it anymore.

The pursuit of happiness is not that high in the american constitution for example.

And why do you detest authoritarinism as a nazi?

Fuck bitches get money yuuuhearrme

>>59958671
> i was born with the capability to defend myself, just as you were. that is a fact. a truth.

You were born as helpless as a baby.

Your premise is wrong, please try again.

>>59958833
this is a typical rebuttal from a retarded serf-tier plebeian. my premise is not wrong. if my premise was wrong, those with greater force would automatically be correct in everything that they do. which is what the modern slave believes and why the state has become a god to most. i was born capable of self-defense. not helpless.
now cherrypick some more so you dont have to face uncomfortable reality.

>>59948966
You obviously never heard of Daisy's Destruction.
>>59949000
Hmmm, hope you realize that the feeling that comes from "the goodness in your heart" depends upon the individual's understanding of and what the collective deems as it.

>>59946772
this, the golden rule is basically "do what thouh wilt" with a "hope" for good times, and it also incorrectly equates all religions to be the same which is a complete lie

>>59958671
Thanks for the thought out response, its an interesting view on morality. Why is the truth a virtue and how can you get "true" authority to do something?

>>59951874
I get what your saying but by the same token ethics are just a way for society to reconcile bad behavior, "oh you fucked, but I see you did do xyz and _ so please dont do it again lets carry on"

morality and spiritual knowledge are the most vital type of knowledge to a community

>>59952410
>So when people have different moral values they start killing each other off....
mohamad please, only heathens are about killing off those who disagree

>>59958673
I don't necessairily have "Nazi morality".

If you read my point in >>59957519
It says that basically, likeness, cognitive empathy and emotional empathy go hand in hand with eachother, and that neither of those tenets can be traded off. For example, if I said that Jews were a poison to every society, it's essentially breaking the first tenet of "Natural likeness"; in no way, shape, or form, should another human be stripped artificially of their likeness in society, neither should we liken the least of men to the most (treating everyone the same). Human likeness and human natural perception of likeness is a strong tenet of my morality, and cannot be broken.

>And why do you detest authoritarinism as a nazi?
Because I'm not exactly a "Nazi"; Nazism started with the same precepts though, that the likeness of the german people, and the likeness of the church, and of the Japanese people, and generally all humans, are worth preserving, and that the hedonistic and decadent nature of Capitalism, which is anti-social, is wrong, and that the egalitarianism of all people in communist societies is also wrong, that there's a balance of goodness throughout society, and that the humanitarian nature shouldn't exceed or be beneath that of society's standards.

>>59952872
best option in life
/thread

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What it necessary is good, what is unnecessary is bad.
No issues with violence, but take issue with needless death/infliction of unneeded suffering.
Pretty basic.
My worldviews are naturally Christian, seeing as I'm a Westerner, and I see the existence of God as unimportant, but the idea of God as fundamental in human culture and social cohesion.

>>59944473
Pride and duty.
>Does this action fulfill my duty to my family?
>Does it fulfill my duty to myself?
>Will I be able to take pride in this action?

>>59960221
you've got be extremely careful with that statement. people in positions in power with the means to spread lies can convince others that many things are necessary. when in reality, its only perceived as necessary because of brainwashing and deception.
its a true statement, but the word "necessary" can be hijacked and applied to unnecessary things.