Hey /pol/, where's your thread on the TPP? Are you aware that you have until Wednesday, January 13, 2016. to comment on the trans pacific partnership?
It's not so much ignored as they're just dragging the process on as long as needed for us all to get tired of rehashing the issue again and again.
Remember when this was still part of the daily media diet?
Basically what they're doing is setting up a multilateral slavery agreement that takes another step away from the modern nation-state and having it be replaced with transnational corporate rule (i.e. literally textbook definition fascism). Transnational corporations will have power superior to that of individual countries. They will be able to do things like sue your country for expected loss of profit should the people in your country, for instance, chose not to buy what they want to sell, or start to think about taxes, tariffs, or fair trade. And an unelected, unappointed, and in all likelihood bought and paid for board of foreign arbitrators will decide the case.
If you think the EU is shit, wait until you're living under an even bigger, more complicated, and less accountable version of it. Are you ready to have your laws "harmonized" with the US? The US is sitting at the center of this, since it is working both an Atlantic and a Pacific set of deals. So what that means for you is you're going to get roped into whatever China wants to do simply because you thought you were signing up to give away all your national power to the US.
This is literally the new world order taking shape. Everything you've been warned about for decades.
The 12 countries who were part of the TPP finally agreed, and the TPP text was released in early November.
Now The Office of the United States Trade Representative is seeking comments on the TPP, so it's our chance to get heard.
The TPP is opposed by Trump and Sanders.
The TPP favours big business over individual benefits and creates yet another international court where companies can sue governments over expected loss of profits.
>If you look carefully at the OP image, you'll find more information about the TPP
Yeah pretty much this >>59937336
Another example, people protest against the coming of a nuclear power plant, the big corporate bosses that own it claim they are losing money to the protest and sue the people and the country.
Eventually even the smallest things will be sueable and all countries' governments will be sucked dry out of money while the big businesses grow richer and stronger. Regular people will be absolutely miserable.
I don't know what your country thinks about it but seemingly Dutch lawyers will be profitting well off of the TPP and since all our politicians will end up in a big corporate position either none of them are against the TTIP here (the TTIP is TPP for Europe).
I'd get out of the EU as quick as possible before the EU accepts it and vote for politicians that are against this shit.
When it comes to that, yes, but when it is about TTIP or TPP Africa is still safe. You have the right to protest as your country didn't submit to the Partnership, or reven got the option to submit.
I expect all countries that don't have TTIP or TPP will do incredibly well after it's enforced, unless of course the corporations use the money for the rest of the world that doesn't have TTIP or TPP... This situation is pretty grim and hopeless. It's not a 'hot topic' anymore, after all chimpouts and other distractions are so much more interesting to shitpost about and post shit about in the media.
I'm waiting for the Americans to take up arms against their government.
>Wasn't the second amendment there to overthrow a tyrannical government?
>Isn't a government that signs the TPP tyrannical (or at least deserving of being overthrown)?
AMERICAN REVOLUTION WHEN?!
The millennial generation here is stupid so that will never happen. Also the TPP is in part to help stop Chinese global domination. Guns are here to stay, also Americans are just lazy.
Why would countries listen? Because they signed a bill agreeing to hand over all the power to corporations. Sargon transcribed the whole text of the bill and it's about 25 hours long, so you can be sure that politicians are simply adviced by lawyers that are hired by the corporations that are pushing the bill.
Yes, I mean they are protesting enough for things like 'black lives matter' and other such propaganda financed by rich jews but they won't ever protest against something that actually means something because they are just too dumb and too simple to manipulate.
Yes, Obama really did his best to build up to passing the TPP. I wish Trump or Bernie would speak out about it as they're the only ones openly against the TPP and aren't flip flopping about it like Shillary.
Any time I see any of these things, it just renews my will to go full Thoreau, build a hut in the middle of nowhere and live a simple life off the earth. You may think that's stupid, but at this point my wits fail to suggest me another viable option
Also, good luck with suing Poortugal for any money whatsoever :^)
If, as your flag suggests, you're singaporean, your country is part of the TPP. Any future laws that could negatively affect the profits of companies would open Singapore up to being sued by multinational corporations, if the govt loses, then the money to pay the corporations comes out of your taxes. Copyright laws are also affected, and ISPs will be required to monitor your internet to see if you're downloading copyright materials. There's many other effects of the TPP but it's 1am here, so I'm going to sleep
America.... the dick is already in our asses, nobody will fight over that additional inch. As long as they push our guts in slowly, it will continue. America was supposed to be the ultimate champ - not the ultimate chump.
We have TTIP here in Europe, it will be hell. It's really like all the NWO tinfoil heads told us, it begins like this.
I wonder who is behind this...
Well by your own metaphor, America's dick has wrapped around entirely and we're now fucking ourselves in the ass with this agreement. Some of the laws changed and implemented by this will damage our sovereignty and citizens too.
It's less of bill selling out to American than it is selling out to global corporations.
Better to get the word out.
>tfw Le Weed Man is against TPP will never sign it
>tfw TPP never been discussed at all in House of Commons and completely forgotten
>tfw sad Obongo cancelled Keystone Pipeline "cuz is bad 4 muh environment"
I have that will too at times, anon, it's not stupid.
Eh, I don't know how bad it is in Portugal but imagine it becoming Greece 2.0, or rather the whole of Europe becoming Greece at its worse and maybe even worse.
Multiple huge countries signed a bill together for this sake, there could be war if the governments of other countries listen to the corporations or a country could be boycotted by all the corporations that agree with the TTIP.
Since politicians often end up in high positions in corporations or banks, they will never be for the people, they will be for their own interest after they stop being a politician and finally receive their 'reward'.
>magine it becoming Greece 2.0
You are correct, sir. Eveen the US is hopelessly, wildly bankrupt and mathematically incapable of paying back its debts. Squeezing out more money isn't the point of this operation. The point is to maintain debt slavery. The point is power and control.
>Greece, Portugal, US, Netherlands! Pay your debnts!
Which really just means live like peasants in the dirt while we take everything you own and force you to live in a dirty ghetto. Oh and by the way part of your debt will be paid off by you taking in more "refugees" that you will pay to house and feed, and it will be a hate crime if you complain.
Honestly at this point we need an international court to sentence these filthy criminals forcing more debts onto the population of the world for crimes against humanity, more than anything.
At times I think that the best solution would be resetting the economy, removing all debts from all the countries and starting anew, after all money isn't even worth that much as a physical thing, it's just a number in a computer at this point.
When I started talking about rope, which was before the "day of the rope" meme, it was with regard to Nuremberg-style inernational war crimes tribunal as being the necessary way to sort the situation out. I also spoke of fair, open, televised domestic trials for treason in my own country -- treason is a hanging crime.
Another well-established concept is that of "odius debt." This refers to unfair debt that can not and will not ever be repaid. This is reality. The debt can not and will not be repaid. Even if we do a back-of-the-envelope calculation and round the outstanding derivative exposure to a mere $1 quadrillion and maybe round up the global GDP to a $100 billion/yr, which far exceeds the actual global GDP back when the housing bubble was still getting a blow job, then you're looking at how many lifetimes to pay that off even at a 100% tax rate where nobody has any money at all anymore? It's absurd, and that's why we see these absurd pushes to replace the existing global structure with something new.
The problem is that the something new works even less well than what we have now. So either the powers that be are going to have to figure out a way to pull this off that will work, or we'll have live televised international war crimes tribunals. They put Mohommad Morsi in a cage at the Hague like an animal. They hung Saddam Husein until his head popped off. They bombed the fuck out of Lybia, shoved a flag in his dead ass, and Hillary Clinton cackled about it. We have photographic evidence of the time Mussolini got dragged through the streets along with his wife, and we have video evidence of that Romanian guy getting shot dead by a firing squad. It's not pretty, but these are the typical ways in which the world deals with problems that are too big to be solved.
This is the same question I have. Yes the mega-corporations have more money than god - but they would be going up against the only entities that can outspend them. If a company wants to sue Canada or China or even the US, there's enough cash to go to court and tell them to fuck off, and make it stick.
In this case, the government is nothing more than a rent-a-mob conduit to funnel money from the people into the transnational corporations. Whether this takes the form of taxes, fees, austerity measures, other ways in which the government dictates your life to you, loans, unrepayable loans, loans which are illegal to default on like college loans, or whatever else is immaterial. Under this scheme, the government is just the regional hitman for the international mafia cartels. They both get richer while you take it up the ass.
I do agree with trials for traitors of humanity and countries, however I don't think that executions are the right way to go for this, usually the people who commit crimes against humanity are highly intelligent, we can put them in prison but still but their minds to work. Life imprisonment however is a just sentence, they have to be kept away from getting any kind of power.
Yes these odius debt are absolutely atrocious and complete fucking bullshit. Honestly all debts, including debts people get when they loan money from the bank are complete bollocks, the banks keep creating more and more money and it causes inflation which will fuck people over even more. The system is faulty and it can not be fixed without a complete reset anymore, the moment that 'fake' money became more important than the actual resources we have in nature and manpower we had everything went downhill.
When man used to trade with gold and silver, at least gold and silver had an actual worth, as did services.
We need the intellectuals of the world to think about a new system that will benefit humanity and work well in our current day and age, this will however never happen because the ones in charge of our current system will never ever let it go and will try to remain in power.
We live in a troubled situation and we're not getting out without a revolution, however we have to come to the tipping point for that, a point where people will be so angry and miserable that they've had enough and take matters into their own hand. However computers and television keep them satisfied and well propagated so I doubt anything will happen in a Western civilization anytime soon.
I agree. And, in my opinion, having a proper fair system of trials and doing everything by the law means that very few people will ever get executed. Most people at Nuremberg didn't get executed. If I were one of those people, I'd rather go to Nuremberg and have a fair say than get hung, bombed, burnt, have my children assassinated, have my country wrecked, get a flack shoved my my ass, dragged through the streets, etc.
What gives me hope is that I think we're seeing an increasingly large contingent of people working on the inside noticing that there's a real problem that needs sophisticated solutions. Myself, I'll work together any day of the week rather than work apart. But if lesser intellects prevail and we're faced with a scortched earth kind of situation, then it starts to make more sense to simply blow up the financial system and be the ones to pick up the pieces instead of the parasites.
Yes, it would work splendidly if properly organized and implemented, the hard part is getting a Nuremberg-like system up and running.
There is indeed a bit of hope, before New Year we had documentaries about the financial system, how it didn't work and how it was ruining people and society, seeing as many of our large national stores are going bankrupt and one is already bankrupt, I'm sure the employees will have watched them to get a better understanding of their situation, we are coming closer to the tipping point with every new bankruptcy as those are the blows needed to wake people up.
I fear however that as money is power we are facing a scortched earth situation, if people were to, for example, set up local money there's no way the big boys in charge won't try to interfere.
On another note I can't believe I'm having a decent conversation on here and a TPP/TTIP thread is up this long, this is the most succesful thread in months.
Seriously though, as I am for a social meritocracy I do not understand this perspective.
Why would you destroy nature, people and society for the sake of a few well-off people while giving others no chance to flourish?
A society in which people have the chance and possibility to flourish, create new things and contribute to society is better than a society where a few ruin the whole world. People need freedom and the possibility to bloom for them to contribute well to society.
Are you by any chance a well-off psychopath or narcissist?
Being made to feel as though you are isolated, unpopular, and alone is one of the basic tenants of psychological warfare. That's why a prisoner of war camp always separates people and puts them in cages until they break and give up and feel like the have no friends and no hope. It's actually the basis of our modern school system, which can be dated back to the mid 1800s in Prussia, designed to shatter the minds of small children in such a way that they would become good, obedient soldiers instead of people capable of thought and reason.
When it comes to finance, there is something called a "force majueure." Eventually things get so out of control that not even all the market rigging in the world can put a stop to it. The questions our brave leaders face is whether they want to avoid absolute eventual certainty, or whether they don't want to drive the train into a wall at full speed.
I love /pol/ because of how many smart, interesting people I can talk to here. I learn new things every day. Sometimes I can't even understand why I can't learn the things I learn here from the entire huge bankrolled media operations.
im not involved in shady shit for once wew thank fuck
Freedom, their elected governments decided they need.
My point of view is based on two points:
1) Humans cannot macro-manage.
2) Humans collectively are retards (Trump and Hilary will be the US candidates simply because they have has the most screen time).
I just thought about this, hear me out, it may sound insane but.
What if you are a person that wants to harm the majority of people around you? What if you want more fatties to die of being fat, what if you want the food supply to be even more addictive, unhealthy and cancer causing so that all the dumbfags will die to it?
What if you want to prevent education around these things in schools and on the internet?
It seems obvious to me, if you were such a person who wants to do genocide upon these people (especially on lower IQ types of people, which mostly are niggers, spics and other lower races), giving corporations more power to do harm seems to be a great idea.
So that means that if you hate niggers, if you hate spics and other lower races, the TTP is a good thing. It will lower food quality, it will demolish government regulation around education and it will make the obesity epidemic (which the lower races with the lower IQ have more off) even bigger.
So, as someone who wants to kill all the niggers, tell me why you shouldnt support this thing?
To add to this:
http://stateofobesity.org/disparities/blacks/ (discard the explanation on this, the actual cause is lower IQ)
Hm, interesting, perhaps that's partly why so many millenials can't think for themselves and always trust facebook or whatever media they use. I'm a millenial too but alas, my dad and I debate a lot and my highschool heavily focused on debating. Yet even still millenials at times present thoughts that they wouldn't openly say if you talk to them in private, as some things are just taught to be taboo to talk about, this is mostly by the media though.
Heh, 'brave leaders', we have little politicians in the world that aren't in there for their own profit or are corporate puppets, they'll always try to keep it in control, no matter what desparate measures they can take.
/pol/ is quite a splendid place for these kinds of conversations, it's usually filled with memes and shitposting though. You don't see these kind of conversations on the big social media sites because most of those are focused on people's narcissism and the ones that do think like this will not openly say it out of fear, unfortunately. This place has anonimity and thus has more of these kinds of conversations.
You underestimate humans, humans if educated and given enough freedom have more potential for greatness. However humans are kept dumb for the sake of the small minority that is in charge, this is not good for humanity as a whole.
I do agree with Darwinism in the sense of, if you're retarded to the point that you accidentally kill yourself then well, that's your own fault but isn't it greater for society if you support your own people, help them and keep them efficient?
As you're for pure capitalism let me ask you, why do you think that corporations who are purely working for their own profits, ran by wealthy humans who want more and more and more wealth have absolute freedom and have more power than a government, that's supposed to be in place to protect its people and nature?
Why are they above the law?
Are you completely daft? This shouldn't be supported because healthy people will suffer too. Do you not understand that you yourself will have less access to good food, medicine and will have less rights?
People with bad lifestyle choices such as smoking, overeating and the like will kill themselves eventually with it, this is going to harm the ones that try to live healthily too.
That may be a small price to pay, the clever people will find a way to avoid this kind of stuff, hopefully.
But the dumb people, they cant even avoid this right now here in europe, even though everything in properly labeled. Advertising is somewhat controlled and the most harmful of chemicals are removed.
We would probably only have to live for 10 years before the fats/cancer epidemic explodes to such a high degree, that we will see massive changes and die-offs.
It will be the great cleansing of the low IQ degenerates, which means less niggers, less mudslimes and less other horrible people, like rednecks.
Its glorious. So why wont you support this coming genocide? Its not like these corporations are even conscious of themselves and how they would fuck up their own consumers. They would gladly kill off half of the population so that their CEO can get that yacht.
Here, there is no guarantee it can be avoided at all.
I disagree, organic food will be either too expensive, indistinguishable or overall forbidden by the big corporations. I do not like eating toxic food and fucking up my body.
If they already don't avoid it while it's labelled, why the hell would we remove all the labels? I mean they're already buying unhealthy stuff, why should we remove the labels and make grocery shopping hard as fuck?
Besides if our government gets sued, guess who it is who will be financing the money when they lose? That's right, it's us, we will get a massive debt and as I said before we will probably become like Greece, I love this country and I don't want that to happen here.
You're quite naive to the consequences anon, you have an idealistic image of what this could do but if you download a song or whatever you can expect to be sued yourself until you're in debt for the rest of your life.
Personally I think it's better to make unhealthy people healthy so they can contribute to society and maybe even invest in educating dumb adults as it will help our society.
Netherbro, have you tried growing your own food? It's not going to meet your nutritional needs overnight, and you're going to find out how easy it is to all get so screwed up.
But at the same time, it's crazy easy to drop some seeds in dirt and then magical plants arise, and then you star to think, "holy fuckballs, food really does grow on trees."
Yeah, if you have enough space it works out, I used to even have too much cabbage carrots before, but fucking slugs destroyed everything this year.
I'm not an actual farmer though, it was nice to have my own food at the side, while it didn't get eaten before it was full-grown that is.
Fuck slugs, first of all. Would that it were legal where I live to unload several shotgun shells directly into the vital parts of those asshole animals that ruin my garden. Thanks, gun control.
But that's alright. Next year I will have a better, bigger, more protected and fully legal garden than ever before. And God help me I will beat any piece of shit into a bloody pulp with my bare hands and a rusty pipe if I should ever get the chance.
The only reason people can't flourish is the facet of regulation. The reason America is in such a shity position is because regulation stifles competition due to excessive costs. Those who have money then buy policy. Because bribery is legal via the lobby. Which is in fact taxation without equal representation.
Ya know something we went to war over.