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I am legit curious as to how this world can...
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You are currently reading a thread in /pol/ - Politically Incorrect

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I am legit curious as to how this world can still have people touting and truly believing in Communism
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My grandpa summed up 90% of my questions when it came to "why would someone do that?". He said:

"Some people are stupid."

Just that simple.
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>>39473166
Nobody believes in communism anymore idiot.

Now people want social democracy.
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>>39473166
Well, what most people thing of as communism and what Karl Marx established in the communist manifesto as communism are very different things for one thing, it was never supposed to be about totalitarian dictatorships and mass killings (such as in Soviet Russia, Vietnam, China, N Korea, Cambodia, etc) it was suppposed to be about the working class rising up and taking control form the idle rich giving everyone a better lot in life, unfortunately people are greedy and power hungry so it hasn't actually work in real life in any place that has attempted it yet.
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>>39473259
No, that is just SJWs who want that shit, and that would be a million times worse than any communist regime.
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actually north korea was better off than south korea for most of communism until america got to china and started forcing the soviets to decentralize their economy, deindustrialize and deskill their workforce and make them a simple natural resource producing colony for west europe. all that despite the fact that soviet "communism" was really just an inefficient restructuring of capitalism and it still did better than the wests already solidified colonial capitalist empire.
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>>39473278
Oh boy....
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>>39473278
It was actually always supposed to be about totalitarian dictatorship actually you're just to much of a good goy to see it.
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>>39473166
Same reason people are Nazi's. It's an ideology that's vilified, so they feel all rebellious and cool for supporting it.
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>>39473348
>>39473278
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>>39473348
Well for one thing they may have implemented those things properly, but they failed to implement the distribution of resources and many other things that would have been necessary for it to have worked properly, also if they hadn't ran around killing people for no reason (Stalin's purges) it probably would have turned out much better for them.
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>>39473166

I live in the capital of Canada, parts of this capital are unable to get internet access. My power goes out so often I should be starting a lawsuit against the provider for destroying my electronics. My TV box wont even start up anymore.

North Korea has a lot of terrible outside pressures they cant avoid, they are doing their best but self defense is the most important priority, if they didnt have to spend so much money on researching missile deterrents, they could spend more on social services.
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>>39473259
Tell that to the people protesting Ferguson
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>>39473475
>special pleading: the political ideology
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>>39473475
>implying
stalins purges were the only thing soviet communism did right. it all just fell apart as they started trying to be nice and adopting western policies starting with khrushchev
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>>39473441

This is why philosophy still matters, incidentally. Once you figure out that socialism (and the broader leftist umbrella, for the most part) is sophistry applied to the realm of politics, everything becomes much simpler.
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>>39473278
How is it that every time communism has been tried, it fucking results in this massive totalitarian regime fucking shit up?

How is there literally no chance of a communist democracy?
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>>39473278
actually, Karl Marx DID say that the state would grow so massive and overbearing (as it went from socialism to communism) that it would be all-encompassing.

They were in the secodn to last stage
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Because that's not actually communism, dumbass. Look up Anarchist Catalonia. Look up Makhnovist Ukraine. Look up the Paris Commune. Don't spout shit about North Korea or the USSR.
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>>39473537
That hasn't happened every time it was tried. Only every time they tried it Marx-style.
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>>39473475
actually, the minute they stopped oppressing people is the minute people started overthrowing the Communists

And they tried central planning

it led to famines
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>>39473523
communism will soon become the only way for the lower clases of humanity to survive, comrade. look it up, human labor in the next couple of decades is going to become largely unnecessary. from driving jobs such as truckers and cabbies (googlies driver less cars), to manufacturing and agriculture (Baxter the and other automated systems) to even management positions (several algorithm programs that can pinpoint what needs to be done to increase profitability)
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>>39473537
it was tried by russia and only russia. people who then wanted to take power in other countries sought to form governments that mimic russia and be a part of their system so that russia would support them and increase their chances of success.
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>>39473569
Communism and the whole 'we're all in it together no one owns this' only works in incredibly small communities were people know each other

like a family unit
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>>39473537
jews have sponsored every communist regime in history
they believe non-jews (goyim) are subhumans to be exploited and exterminated
im not even joking
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>>39473166
You tell me...
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>>39473645
>Communism is a religion
OY VEY GOYIM KNOW
>shut it down
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>>39473619
>human labor in the next couple of decades is going to become largely unnecessary.

Machines fix themselves and construct themselves. Machines can also research their own future growth and plan accordingly.

I think what you meant to say was that the human population will be smaller in the future and more educated if menial tasks can be completed by machines. I don't get what world you live in where suddenly robots can do most of the work but people are too stupid to think that maybe one child is enough instead of 8.
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>>39473490
Thievery is in their blood.
Once you come to realize that all the shit going in Africa at the moment - from hazardous water to disease to murder and rape - is caused by black communism, remove whitey and all the other stupid shit they carried out back in the day. Then you realize that you can't really blame God for any of the shit that happens.
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>>39473166
Ask the EU. They seem to like the look of it.
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>>39473678
>I think what you meant to say was that the human population will be smaller in the future and more educated if menial tasks can be completed by machines. I don't get what world you live in where suddenly robots can do most of the work but people are too stupid to think that maybe one child is enough instead of 8.

That is the problem, people are fucking stupid, there wont be enough jobs to go around but stupid people will keep shitting out kids leading to either a much more massive welfare system (most likely) communism being adopted and finally working (less likely) or a crazy increased crime rate of happening levels because of all the unemployment. (least likely)
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>>39473739
>communism is a religion

what
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>>39473739
how the fuck is that communism?

"tolerance" is the freedom to call yourself whatever label you want as long as you live by the rules of globalist capitalism
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>>39473798
>communism being adopted and finally working

We're talking in layman, hypothetical, future scenario terms here.

It's possible that, if this apocalyptic future whereby robots do everything (Luddite spotted) exists, then the need for labor is diminished. Meaning that capitalism eventually led to a paradise where no one has to work as machines do it all. Meaning we win again
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>>39473833
Dunno. Ask the Maoist EU President.

>>39473821
All peoples united under one system. That is why the Commie symbol is there I think.
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>>39473798
So once capitalism has delivered us an automated paradise where humans no longer need to work, THEN communism can work?

Sounds like "Hey this new jogging technique is way better than the old one, but it only works once you've crossed the finish line."
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>>39473870
>>39473919
communism being neccisary to destrbut the goods created by the robots.
>under capitalism
>go to school for education to get job
>get job use job to get money
>use money from job to buy wants and needs to live comfortably
So how would you afford to live with no job therefor no money? Then how will capitalism work?
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>>39473278
>never supposed to be about totalitarian dictatorships
>dictatorship of the proletariat
>b-b-but a such a dictatorship wouldn't be totalitarian

The history of humanity not on your side. The Frankfurt school already accepted that Marxism was already flawed in its original premises. Karl Marx propounded his theories at the one point in time it could have been plausible and every single manifestation in all of its forms has failed miserably. There isn't some magical element that has been lacking in every single communist state that would somehow unite all the other disastrous elements into something superior to capitalism.
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>>39473988
capitalism means people can do what they want with what they own.

It has nothing to do with public education or people seeking to sell labor rather than entrepreneurship. Stop attacking men of straw.
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>>39473988
you will die and the ten thousand richest people will own the entire earth

you only exist now because you serve a purpose to them you know
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>>39474022
That won't happen though. Anybody with any sense of critical thinking can see that the masses will just lynch the rich if that happened and take it for themselves. Numbers will win that battle.
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>>39473166
>Forgetting about an embargo put on North Korea and Cuba
Yeah, and even so North Korea looks rather normal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRgzCYdYBg
http://vimeo.com/102051605#at=0
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>>39473821
All of the other symbols represent belief systems or religions, there's no similarity, (except communism is less plausible than some religions in that star).
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>>39473345
And despite USA's help Sount Korea still had a crisis that made jobless and poor millions of it's citizens.
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>>39474049

>Defending the quality of life in North Korea


Communists' arguments are indistinguishable from bait.
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>>39474043
its not hard to exterminate a population. the hard part is convincing a population to be loyal to you. if the system has no need for your services to function properly there is nothing stopping it from killing you
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Look how energy conservative the north is. Communist really do care about the planet.
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>>39474006
>It has nothing to do with public education or people seeking to sell labor rather than entrepreneurship. Stop attacking men of straw.
no straw man inteded comrade, i was simply pointing out that they way the economic system is set up with the majority of the people being paid for time spent doing a task will be unsupportable in what many indications show is the probable future of the next couple of decades.
>>39474022
that is exactly the point. that is why the people will rise up and seize control of the means of production.
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>>39474107
Considering what typical conservatards/libtards believe in it is not surprising that they see facts as jokes.
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>>39474126
>that is why the people will rise up and seize control of the means of production.

Still waiting...
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>>39474111
If you think around 1000 people can wipe out 7 billion you are a fucking retard.
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>>39474121
or maybe that's what happens when you're poor as shit running off outdated infrastructure because most resources go towards military maintenance.
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>>39474157
>being too stupid to recognise obvious satire
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>>39474152
Well, they are wiping out third part of the world's population using hunger now. Not that they want to do it, it is system that makes people go hungry despite world's production ability to supply everyone with enough food.
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>>39474152
i disagree. the average western city has enough food at any given time for only one week of survival. let society crumble and you wont have to lift a finger, the proles will kill eachother
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>>39474182
>taking the chance that someone might believe it
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>>39474143
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/world/asia/north-koreans-say-life-has-not-improved.html?pagewanted=all

http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/39473166/i-am-legit-curious-as-to-how-this-world-can-still#reply

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/12/world/asia/north-korea-we-rarely-see/
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>>39474219
>>39474143

Meant to post http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/12/world/asia/north-korea-we-rarely-see/
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>>39474219
>But behind the propaganda and beyond the capital of Pyongyang is the harsher reality of poverty, hunger and desperation, defectors say.
>defectors say
This.
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>>39474219
>nytimes
>cnn
not him but those are pretty much as biased as you can get when it comes to truth about americas geopolitical enemies
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>>39474219
>ny times
>cnn
has to be bait
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>>39474185
The population in the third world is actually growing though. So the numbers are only going to become more lopsided.

>>39474191
If society collapses then wealth becomes meaningless idiot. We just go back to a feudal-Mafia system of everybody killing each other to survive. The people won't die off because they will just take what they need to survive.
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>>39474150
once the robotics have been fully implemented (which are in the process of being developed and implemented) and human labor has fallen to the point of being unnecessary. then the uprising shell commence.
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>muh profit
>muh consumerism
>muh oppression and exploitation of hard-working people
Fuck off, amerifats.
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>>39474272
http://www.aljazeera.com/video/asia-pacific/2014/10/rare-glimpse-inside-north-korea-security-zone-201410163291831860.html

Gee, can someone post the list of /pol/ approved news sources so I can get stories from there?
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>>39474283
Jobless people = moneyless people. All people outside of production are also outside of consumption.
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>>39474311
yes, but once the majority is moneyless and starving they will rise up, and dethrone the wealthy who control the means of production, desperate people do desperate things.
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>>39474283
>Once the reality of economics and human consumption will fundamentally change, then my completely fantastic scenario will manifest itself.

By the way, this is the exact opposite conditions that Marx stipulated would result in a revolution by the proletariat, but both situations are equally absurd, so keep on building your communes in the sky.
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>>39474305
every government in the world except for iran north korea and formerly libya owes loyalty to international corporations and cant be trusted to provide an accurate picture of events. of course the news services of those countries will have obvious biases as well, but by comparing and contrasting and doing a little research into the underlying sciences you can get somewhat of a glimpse into whats going on
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>>39474305
Capitalists of any country will try to descredit socialist countries any means possible. That's not about trustworthy news sources, it's about sources of those news. For example, north korean defectors are bad sources since they: don't have jobs and any means of income once on southern side; USA/South Korea forces them to cooperate with government; if they ran away from North Korea they sure as hell don't want to return
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why do the occupy protesters support communism?

It's a movement to support the working class. These people don't fucking work
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>>39474363
So the satellite images are doctored too? This reasoning is eerily similar to that of the Flat Earth's Society on why all evidence suggests and confirms that the earth is round.
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>>39474366
they dont. modern leftists are still capitalist as all hell they are just selfish and whiny about it. identity politics like the modern left concern themselves with and pol calls cultural marxism is only found in capitalist societies where whiny entitled bourgeoisie are allowed to develop
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>>39474363
>Discredits every news source but accepts a video filmed in North Korea as his single source.

This isn't really a double standard because you are using any piece of evidence to justify your opinion and disregarding every other source even if it's not comparable.
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>>39474393
north korea is poor. its not poor because of communism however, but systematic economic isolation and attacks from the encroaching colonial capitalist empire
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>>39474393
They don't. Because of embargo North Korea has deficit of fuel. North koreans have to be economical. As an example, they use lamp posts that have sun batteries on top en masse.
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>>39474352
>An-Caps and Libertarians will not understand this
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>>39474121
largely unintentionally, but it is an economically friendly political affiliation.
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>>39473166
>North Korea:people can rest after day of work and don't need light
>South Korea-people have to work 24 hours per day and need light to continue working during the night
Nice try capitalist.
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>>39474366
Communist is the edgiest form of leftism that's taught at their university, so they adopt merely on the basis of mindless revolt.
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>>39474489
this
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>>39474452
>Discredits every news source that is using logic fallacies and lies but accepts a video filmed in North Korea that looks trustworthy
Fixed.
I am not disregarding everything I don't like because I have my own opinion. First, I find why other opinions are wrong and only then make my own opinion.
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>>39474456
Most of the economic isolation of North Korea is self-imposed and the other sanctions are entirely the result of human rights violations. Besides, you are arguing uno flatu that North Korea's economic stagnation is caused by its isolation right after you try to paint a brighter picture of it's economic state.
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>>39474587
The mere fact that it a short video of a small part of one city that "looks trustworthy" and is of an unknown source is not more credible than the mass of evidence provided by other countries that are supposed to represent the entirety of the country over a span of several yera.
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>>39474594
>other sanctions are entirely the result of human rights violations
Which didn't happen and are entirely fake.
>Besides, you are arguing uno flatu that North Korea's economic stagnation is caused by its isolation right after you try to paint a brighter picture of it's economic state.
It's economy is doing not as bad as you think.It is not permanent starvation and despair like in Africa, it is relatively poor country.
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>>39474667
>mass of evidence
Just like I said: capfags are believing in bizarre things without even trying to consider that they are lied to.
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>>39474676
http://jurist.org/paperchase/2014/11/un-rights-expert-enough-evidence-to-hold-north-korea-accountable-for-human-rights-violations.php

>It's economy is doing not as bad as you think.
Evidence beyond a video please, and the comparison to Africa, an entire continent and universally agree to be the most backwards continent in the world, is an absolute joke.

>>39474715
You have not presented more compelling evidence. Until you have, I won't consider you any more deluded than the daily stormweenies that deny that millions of jews were killed in the Holocaust..
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>>39474747
This UN report is based upon 60 defectors' made up stories. It has no truth in it.
>You have not presented more compelling evidence
Because I'll have to google it for a long time. Also, I read only russian sources regarding North Korea, if you want some I can present it to you.

>and the comparison to Africa
Because capfags think that North Korea is doing even worse than Africa.
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Communist despots come to power riding the hordes of desperate poor.

So the underclass will always remember them kindly because they are the ones who get concessions in return for support.

Or did you think that somehow a bunch of people managed to oppress literally everybody with zero support from the population? How would that even work?
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>>39474841
Why should I believe your sources over that of the UN? Even if you post sources, I find your argument that every single one of them is untrustworthy because muh corporatism.

>Because capfags think that North Korea is doing even worse than Africa.

That's a completely irrelevant strawman because it was never mentioned in this thread and is equivalent to refuting the notion that everyone's lives in a communist country is equivalent to slavery, which is undoubtedly believed by capfags.
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>>39474915
>Why should I believe your sources over that of the UN?
Because I already showed you that defectors are untrustworthy. Compare with Nurnberg, look at what was used as proofs at Nurnberg.
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>>39473166
>I am legit curious as to how this world can still have people touting and truly believing in Communism

It tends to be a consequence of narcissism and an adolescent power fantasy. The ultimate foundation of communism is that the "intellectuals" get to decide how much of any given commodity you deserve.

Dwell on that. These "intellectuals" get to decide what house you live in, what job you do, what food you eat, what income you have. They decide this because they are "intellectual" and understand everything so much better than you ever could.

You can easily see how this appeals to a bullied adolescent or an unpopular neckbeard. They fantasise about punishing their bullies and rewarding the girls they have crushes on. It is pure power fantasy and that is the moral and intellectual foundation of communist thought.
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>>39474988
what are you talking about the intellectuals get murdered or sent to the gulag for being too jewish
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>>39474988
Oh god. Did you even read the manifesto? Because you are clearly not talking about communism, but about some sort of feudalism not unlike ancapitalism.
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>>39474977
>Because I already showed you that defectors are untrustworthy. Compare with Nurnberg, look at what was used as proofs at Nurnberg.

See, you dubiously attempted to answer the negative of the answer, but even assuming that the entirely of all evidence brought by any source that suggests North Korea isn't the communist utopia suggested by their propaganda has no weight, you haven't demonstrated the trustworthiness of your sources that show conclusively that North Korean communism is working swimmingly.
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>>39475038
>too jewish
You can't be to jewish in the jewish revolution.
>captcha: class noedpain
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>>39475201
>this is what nazis actually believe
stalin murdered more jews than hitler was even accused of. he created jew murder squads with jewish members and then murdered those jews too. he also killed a shit ton of kazaks hohols and mudslimes, guy was the king of sneaky genocide
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>>39475127
Because this wasn't my point. My point was that western propaganda is based on lies. Yet, somehow you are demanding from me proofs of something you imply I was trying to prove.
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>>39474988
>These "intellectuals" get to decide what house you live in, what job you do, what food you eat, what income you have. They decide this because they are "intellectual" and understand everything so much better than you ever could.

yeah, no, I bring you Cambodia:
>Under Pol Pot's leadership, and within days of overthrowing the government, the Khmer Rouge embarked on an organised mission: they ruthlessly imposed an extremist programme to reconstruct Cambodia (now under its Khmer name Kampuchea) on the communist model of Mao's China. The population must, they believed, be made to work as labourers in one huge federation of collective farms. Anyone in opposition - and all intellectuals and educated people were assumed to be - must be eliminated, together with all un-communist aspects of traditional Cambodian society.
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>>39475250
No, that wasn't the original point. The original point was that
>North Korea looks rather normal.

I tried to rebut your argument with various sources you considered completely untrustworthy and unbelievable, suggesting you had sources that were more trustworthy. I allowed for the argument that the sources I posted could not be trusted, but I do not consider various Russian videos without any context more trustworthy than that of every other institution.
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>>39475329
>I tried to rebut your argument with various sources you considered completely untrustworthy and unbelievable, suggesting you had sources that were more trustworthy
So, if there is only one opinion on a subject then this opinion must be correct?
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>>39475349
>So, if there is only one opinion on a subject then this opinion must be correct

How did you derive that conclusion from that statement?
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>>39475401
You are demanding proofs for the opposite despite me merely disproving your UN report.
Look, your opinion is wrong. All I did was proving that, not trying to enforce my opinion. %%I'm not native with english, I just can't say it proper way%%
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>>39475477
>You are demanding proofs for the opposite despite me merely disproving your UN report.

Firstly, I didn't demand proofs for the opposite, I merely stated that the evidence that you did present was not more compelling. Secondly, I demanded am argument that your sources would be more compelling than the ones that I posted. Thirdly, even if I did demand more evidence, that still would not imply that I believe that, "if there is only one opinion on a subject then this opinion must be correct."

>Look, your opinion is wrong.
Which opinion, exactly?

Firstly, i didn
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>>39475587
>Firstly, I didn't demand proofs for the opposite, I merely stated that the evidence that you did present was not more compelling.
I said that defectors are not trustworthy and showed exactly why it is. This is all I ever need to disprove something - finding why statement is false. I don't need to find proofs of the opposite, dammit.
>Which opinion, exactly?
You said something about violation of human rights in NK.
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>>39475665
I already allowed that the source from the UN, and every other news outlet, could be suspect, but I don't accept that any of your sources would be trusthworthy or reliable.
>You said something about violation of human rights in NK.
So, there are no human rights violations in North Korea?
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>>39475737
>So, there are no human rights violations in North Korea?
Yeah, there are no. Why there would be?
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>>39475814
So, when North Korea admits to using labor camps, these aren't human rights violations?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/08/north-korea-admits-using-labour-camps
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>>39475879
Those are not labour camps, those are ‘reform through labour’ camps. It is like USA's prisons were prisoners are forced to work. No human rights violation.
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>>39475951
The UN considers that a human rights violation. Hell the UN considers prisons a human rights violation.
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>>39475951
The abduction of Japanese civilians isn't a violation of human rights?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Japanese_citizens#cite_note-mainichi-msn-ap13-2006-4
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>>39476048
>The abduction of Japanese civilians isn't a violation of human rights?
This plot is rather twisted. Well, I assume that abductions happened, while some of the abductees were seeking asylum. This is a violation, but every country in the world did something like that at least once.
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>>39476383
The restriction and censorship of all digital communication isn't a violation of human rights?

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2013/north-korea
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>>39476040
>The UN considers that a human rights violation.
If I understand this correctly, those reform through labour camps are something like soviet ones. There work was not only paid, but could shorten the term of inprisonment. Also, prisoners were allowed to live in their own houses on a conditions that they will come to work. Working week was 42 hours long. Reform through labour, just like they said.
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>>39476459
A year-long investigation by the United Nations Commission of Inquiry on Human Rights in North Korea published its results at the start of this year, further shining a light on the camps. While the report's authors noted that numbers in the camps seemed to have decreased, there were still 80,000 to 120,000 people in the camps, imprisoned without trial for crimes as minor as criticizing the Kim dynasty or trying to organize Christian services.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/10/09/did-north-korea-really-admit-to-its-horrific-forced-labor-camps-not-exactly/
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North Korea isn't communism. It's Monarch. You should have figured it out by now.

If you want a good example of communism, or rather National Socialism, you don't need to look further. China and Japan are practically Socialist States, yet their economy have been thriving for many years.
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>>39476435
>https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2013/north-korea
Bullshit. They just don't show on TV antiNK propaganda. Discs coming from the China are not censored - it is just impossible to do.
>Although televisions are required to be fixed to official channels, nearly one-third of the population—mainly those living along the Chinese and South Korean borders—reported accessing foreign television broadcasts, according to a May 2012 report by InterMedia.
Yeah, they are openly admitting it, yet they interpret is as some censorship occurring.
>>39476522
>imprisoned without trial for crimes as minor as criticizing the Kim dynasty or trying to organize Christian services.
I remember those tales about soviet prisoners. Total and utter bullshit. They can't throw someone in prison without a trial, it is forbidden by constitution.
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>>39476559
Japan has been in a recession for more than 20 years with an extraordinary debt-to-gdp and in China, a middle class has only arisen recently and many suspect that a bubble has been forming for some time.

Furthermore, very few would describe China as a proper example of successful communism as it's economic prominence only arose once the country gained more economic freedom

Also

>Communism can be equated with National Socialism
>Japan is National Socialist
>Ergo, Japan is communist

I was going to say that you should feel silly now, but you are just a complete retard.
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>>39473166
there was NEVER Communism on earth retard
there wasn't if you think any country on earth was under a Communist government you're a fucking retard and you don't know what you're talking bout
>>
>>39476711
Japan has a market economy. Japan has private ownership of goods.

No.

North Korean isn't exaclty communist either. In the beginning that was the line the towed, where as now the free market is starting to fix it, but they're still buttfucked from their Juche rhetoric striking fear into the yankees and thier Jew masters.

I applaud their race based ideology. I applaud thier staunch self reliance. I wish they'd open up their markets and ease up on the human rights violations. I'm sure if they did that the ROK would want to rejoin them (South Koreans are very against multiculti but to pussy to do anything about it). Koreans need a strong leader-- it's their national character.
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>>39473490
>Tell that to the people protesting Ferguson
>Tell that to the people protesting
>Tell that to the people
>people
>>
>>39476559
>Japan
>one of the lowest income tax countries in the world
>socialist
American commie apologists are hilarious wwwwwww
>>
>>39473166
People will always be drawn to the unknown especially when they're told it's bad.
>>
>>39476901
>In the beginning that was the line the towed, where as now the free market is starting to fix it
So, you think that NK is starting to implement capitalism? What makes you to think so? I mean, I frequently hear this but there is just no real evidence behind this statement.
>>
>>39476667
Are there lawyers available for indigent prisoners on appeal?
We found no information on whether the state provides lawyers for indigent prisoners on appeal. There are reports that in any event, authorities only provide lawyers and trials to non-political offenders. Citizens suspected of committing political crimes are taken to prison camps without trial [29] and are unlikely to be provided with any possibility of appeal.

http://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org/country-search-post.cfm?country=North+Korea

>Discs coming from the China are not censored

And from other sources?

> televisions are required to be fixed to official channels

Forcing televisions to be fixed to certain channels isn't a violation of human rights?
>>
>>39476979
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100921212
>>
>>39473278
>>39473537

If it makes ya'll feel better, grassroots communism works out pretty well.

Things like credit unions are generally successful and have higher member satisfaction rates than banks have customer satisfaction rates.

Then you have things like employee-owned corporations with no outside investors and that aren't publicly traded, which are a mixed bag on if they're successful or not, like any corporation.
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>>39477014
That isn't communism, that would be socialism. Under socialism, the workers own the means of production, while under communism, all private property is abolished, which would not apply to a credit union any more than a publically traded company.
>>
>>39476983
>We found no information on whether the state provides lawyers for indigent prisoners on appeal
No information, yet they think the state doesn't provide the lawyer.
>And from other sources?
From South Korea? Probably. From China and Russia - not. Also, considering the amount of tourists visiting NK each year those claims on censorship are just stupid.
>Forcing televisions to be fixed to certain channels isn't a violation of human rights?
How are you supposed to fix TVs to certain channel? I mean, doesn't it require perfect understanding of each and every TV's inner structire? Don't you think the claim that TVs are fixed looks implausible?
>>
>>39477065

Ah, I always confuse the two
>>
>>39474915
South Africa and Egypt are worse than Best Korea? I think either stand is silly because, there's a lot of difference between various African countries. Eritrea and either of the Congos are worse than the DPRK
>>
>>39477014
Neither of your examples are communism though.
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>>39473166
I'm not the only one who sees a flaccid cut-penis, right?
>>
>>39473166
>sanctions
thats how you ruin a country, communism's only problem is that retards like you can be manipulated into hating it
>>
>>39477043
>Dat pic

That cant be true, there is no fucking way that's true.
>>
>>39476559
Japan has a privatized ambulance service, how are they socialist?
>>
>>39477043
Marx, Engels and Hegel were simply allowed to play pretend Jews whilst documenting the communist Jesuit reductions of South America that built the Spanish Empire. Don't believe their lies, in fact you should never even read Hegel, it's not good for your health.
>>
>>39477191
How is socialist a country that has private ownership on means of production?
>>39477209
Too hard for you?
>>
>>39476979
They aren't officially. I know that markets exist there as a matter of fact, even though they're forbidden de jure.

For instance, South Korean choco-pies (shitty gook ripoff of American Moonpies) are one of the most popular goods there. The people there watch South Korean dramas.

See reviews of the book "the cleanest race" for an actual analysis of the North Korean situation. The paid lip service to communism to get support, but their ideology is purely race based nationalism and has been since the beginning. They never had any intentions of going full commie.
>>
>>39477115
Keep reading

"Citizens suspected of committing political crimes are taken to prison camps without trial [29] and are unlikely to be provided with any possibility of appeal."

>From South Korea? Probably. From China and Russia - not. Also, considering the amount of tourists visiting NK each year those claims on censorship are just stupid.

"Under the penal code, listening to unauthorized foreign broadcasts and possessing dissident publications are considered “crimes against the state” that carry serious punishments, including hard labor, prison sentences, and the death penalty."


"Radio and TV sets in North Korea are supplied pre-tuned to government stations and radios must be checked and registered with the police."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6037715.stm
>>
>>39477166
Technically he was a "writer"
>>
>>39473278
Unfortunately that only works on a community by community basis. The idea of america.. Atleast in the classical we the people, states are powerful and the federal government is more like the glue that binds the states together idea... Is basically what these retards want. But they are so fucking stupid that they think the only way they can get a strong community is to force it upon everyone with a strong centralized government. Too bad there aren't any moderately sized communities with semi syndicalist companies operating as 'economic export hubs' with everyone trying to strengthen their community through cooperation. I mean they exist but its all very small communes populated by retarded hippies. Shit will never happen as long as multinational corporations and rampant materialism exist.

It is horribly sad but I can't imagine a scenario where such a reality comes into existence that doesn't involve 1) the happening and 2) a massive cull
>>
>>39477247
>I know that markets exist there as a matter of fact, even though they're forbidden de jure.
No, market is not forbidden. Why do you even though that? Collective farmers can trade their goods on a market.
>For instance, South Korean choco-pies (shitty gook ripoff of American Moonpies) are one of the most popular goods there. The people there watch South Korean dramas.
So, this is now a criteria of a capitalist state. Good to know, lol.
>>39477296
Are those statements based upon real evidence? I don't think so. Meanwhile, mine are based on common sense and constitution.
>>
>>39477327
>Writer economically supported by Engels

I suppose being a productive member of society as a writer is too bourgeois.
>>
>>39473363
Under rated post
>>
>>39477395
By bourgeois standards he was quite successful.
>>
>>39477225
>How is socialist a country that has private ownership on means of production?
I'm not that other guy your arguing with. I have made no statments regarding whether China is communist or not. But, I will argue that Japan is capitalist because of the high degree of free market trade in every sector of the economy and public services.

Also I think you accidentaly a word
>>
>>39477383
>Meanwhile, mine are based on common sense and constitution.
>Reject all sources except that which is produced by the state and Russian videos
>common sense

"A December 2007 amendment to the penal code extended the death penalty to many more crimes, including non-violent offenses such as fraud and smuggling."

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2013/country-chapters/north-korea
>>
>>39477431
>"A December 2007 amendment to the penal code extended the death penalty to many more crimes, including non-violent offenses such as fraud and smuggling."
So? How this contradicts the constitution? Be not executed for fraud is some sort of human right?
Not that I think it is just law. In fact, I didn't see any real evidence of this law existance. It is not a human right violation.
>>
>>39477418
>Living off his friend who lived off his father
>Successful

No, by bourgeois standards, he was a moocher that could not earn his own keep and whose subsistence was third-hand from his friend which was from his father who was pure bourgeois.
>>
>>39477544
He had the money, bitch. It is all that matters in bourgeois society.
>>
>>39477420
>Smuggling rightfully deserves the death penalty.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/10/north_korea_executes_officials_soap_operas_south_korea_kim_jong_un.html
>>
>>39477568
>Right exclusively about ending the bourgeois society
>Can only survive producing these writings with the existence of the bourgeois society
>>
>>39477606
>North Korea executes 10 officials for watching South Korean soap operas
>South Korea's intelligence agency revealed this week that North Korea executed 10 officials by firing squad for watching South Korean soap operas, engaging in bribes and womanizing, The Independent reports.
>engaging in bribes
>>
>>39477643
Because you have the right to criticize something only after you've mastered this something.
>>
The only good commie is a dead commie
>>
>>39477694
>Because you have the right to criticize something only after you've mastered this something.

What?
>>
>>39477728
Well, you have the right to criticize someone's cookings only after you've become the chef yourself.
>>
Communism doesn't work.

Most systems in place right now don't work.

If shit worked we wouldn't have to constantly fix and patch it up.
>>
>>39473278
>taking control form the idle rich giving everyone a better lot in life
Except the rich.
>>
>>39477606
>http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/10/north_korea_executes_officials_soap_operas_south_korea_kim_jong_un.html
Are you retarded? How the hell does North Korea executing a bunch people change whether or not Japan has a capitalist economy?
>>
>>39477773
What an injustice.
>>
>>39477755
What are you trying to communicate?

>>39477782
I meant to quote another.
>>
>>39477799
It's just a matter of you contradicting yourself. Justice is a spook.
>>
>>39477673
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/22/politics/north-korea-american-release/

"North Korea accused Fowle of leaving a Bible at a club for foreign sailors and interpreted the act as a violation of law."
>>
>>39477698
holy fuck what is this gif
>>
>>39477606
Has butthurt ruined your reading comprehension?
>>
>>39477838
"It's a covert act and a violation of tourists' rules," Fowle said of trying to leave the Bible. "I've admitted my guilt to the government and signed a statement to that effect and requested forgiveness from the people and the government of the DPRK."
>>
>>39477852
A commie being killed by a patriot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4KROpdUkrM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inejiro_Asanuma
>>
>>39477880
That was a wrong quote, SORRY.
>>
>>39477896
Are you actually defending the government for detaining him because he left a bible and that he should have to incriminate himself in order to be freed?
>>
>people call keynesian econ "socialism" or "communism"
>people calling Austrian and Chicagoan econ "capitalism" instead of "oligarchy" or "fuedalism"
>>
>>39477934
Actually, I am saying that this guy violated the rules of this country. But even so after he requested forgiveness forgiveness was granted.
>>
>>39477906
You can actually see demon aura leaving the body.
>>
>>39477968
So, you are not defending the country for having rules against leaving a bible in a club and detaining him for that purpose?
>>
>>39478009
Bible is an ideological propaganda.
>>
>what are retards
>>
>>39478044
Marxism is unfalsifiable dogma.
>>
>>39478093
Mein Kampf is only a book, riiight.
This guy violated the tourists' rules. Deal with it.
>>
North Korea hasn't even tried to be commie in a long time.
>>
>>39478044
Well, that would generally and consistently be considered a violation of human rights by almost the entirety of the western world. I suppose that we may agree to disagree and I'm convinced that banning bibles because of their content is a violation of human rights.

>North Korea banning ideological propaganda.

>>39478135
You basically gave away your entire argument. After denying every source that had any connection to the West, you finally admitted that a man was rightfully detained for six months because he left a bible in a nightclub. That's a violation of human rights, deal with it XD
>>
>>39473345
>still did better
>fell apart as soon as people were allowed to find out what was happening in their own country
>>
>>39478135
>Mein Kampf is only a book, riiight.

Right, that's why it's perfectly legal in every Western state...

What kind of fucking shit hole do you come from where books like Mein Kampf are banned?
>>
>>39478195
Christians are getting BTFO, lol.
>>
>>39478265
This would have been a b8 response if you haven't been doing this for four hours, you hadn't made it obvious that English isn't your first language, and you used BTFO completely incorrect, as if I had to be a Christian to defend the Bible being freely distributed or be a Nazi to defend Mein Kampf being published.

By the way, the counter-example of Mein Kampf really doesn't work on this board that's filled with actual Nazis, people who are sympathetic to Hitler's views, people who would fully support such free expression, and the fact that Mein Kampf is almost certainly freely available in your country.
>>
>>39477755
What? no, if someone makes a shitty meal, I can tell them it's shitty, even if I'm not a 5-star chef. A chef can probably do a better job of telling you exactly what's wrong with it, but an average Joe can still say "It's shit" and be correct.
>>
>>39478412
http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/ccpr.aspx
Articles 19 and 20.
>>
>>39478612
>http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/ccpr.aspx

Right, Mein Kampf doesn't fit this description because it doesn't urge or incite illegal acts and this wouldn't apply to the Bible either.
>>
>>39473166
>all that wasted light
>a good thing
Communism is bad and retarded for sure, but what we call capitalism sure ain't any better in the long run.
>>
>>39473634
this
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>>39473166
>implying do not waste energy and resources for useless entertainments is bad
>>
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I went to school with a group of kids who literally thought that North Korea was like a paradise on Earth and that the only reason we think it sucks is government lies.

So basically they delude themselves; that's how OP.
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>>39474111
>Its not hard to exterminate a population
You're on the right track...
>>
>>39474283
>Then the Uprising shell commence
>Uprising shell commence
>Shell commence
>Shell

Communism at its finest.
>>
>>39473166
Because that's not communism. Communism has literally never been done, people have been tricked into giving consent for leadership because leaders lied and said they were communists.
>>
>>39478878

Reminder that South Korea has to shoot people just to stop them moving to North Korea.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/16/world/asia/south-korea-border-shooting/
>>
>>39473166
Dunno about you but I sleep at night.
>>
>>39479114
>Trusting news sources only when it suits your narrative

The border is the most militarized on the planet. North Koreans would have responded in the same way and have done so numerous times and it doesn't implying anything. This is just shitposting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_involving_North_Korea
>>
>>39474363
If communism is so great, then why do they defect in the first place? Because they've been brainwashed by the bourgeois capitalist pigs?
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>>39473166

Jews are still pushing communism in academia and universities. They need useful idiots to do their bidding. Communists are basically the best goyim in the world. They are internationalists they want to eliminate borders the family they want a planned economy run by Jewish commisars etc.
>>
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>>39474495
>is an economically friendly
>Economically not Environmentally
>Tfw
>>
>>39473166

Energy conservation is good, comrade. :^)
>>
>>39479182

Of course, you fucking idiot... If SK didn't secure their borders, NK would likely see it as an act of war if faggots ran across the border and brought god knows what with them
>>
>>39479711
the wall is for your own protection fellow free men :^)
>>
>>39476790
>that isn't MY communism
See these, faggot.
>>39473441
>>39473348
>>
>>39477166
What do you think modern teenagers who believe in communism are? Just spoiled brats who can't get any more money from daddy.

The followers reflect their creator.
>>
>>39479287
You responded to the wrong guy. I was making fun of his spelling.
>>
>>39479179
See
>>39479849
>>
>>39473278
>the idle rich
>idle rich
>idle

if the rich were "idle" it would be easy to take their shit, and if it was easy it would have happened a long time ago
people who are rich today have worked for it, whether through actually earning their resources through hard work, or just bowing to the establishment and paying people to keep freeloaders and niggers out of their area
>>
>>39473166
North Korea is actually a prime example of National Socialism in action.
>>
>>39477838
>>39477934
>>39478009
>>39478195
>Waaah I should be able to go anywhere in the world and start converting people to my political and religious identity even though I'm just a worthless foreign tourist
Get. The. Fuck. Out.
>>
>>39480469
He wasn't converting people, he left a bible. Furthermore, is a clearly violation of human rights per the link you posted. 30 minutes and this is the best you could do?
>>
>>39480524
>He wasn't converting people, he left a bible.
If that's all you have to say you can just shut the fuck up.

>you
I'm not even that poster.

Get the fuck out, libertardian scum.
>>
>>39480570
>If that's all you have to say
>all you have to say
>Furthermore

>Get the fuck out, libertardian scum.
No, I don't think I will. :)
>>
>>39480170
typical communist
>>
>>39478195
That's littering, man.
>>
>>39480652
>Furthermore
The rest of your post was inconsequential.
>muh human rights
North Korea, bless them, doesn't give a shit about your Western definitions, like most Asian countries:
faculty.washington.edu/swhiting/pols469/Bangkok_Declaration.doc

>3. Stress the urgent need to democratize the United Nations system, eliminate selectivity and improve procedures and mechanisms in order to strengthen international cooperation, based on principles of equality and mutual respect, and ensure a positive, balanced and non-confrontational approach in addressing and realizing all aspects of human rights;
>5. Emphasize the principles of respect for national sovereignty and territorial integrity as well as non-interference in the internal affairs of States, and the non-use of human rights as an instrument of political pressure;
>6. Reiterate that all countries, large and small, have the right to determine their political systems, control and freely utilize their resources, and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development;
>8. Recognize that while human rights are universal in nature, they must be considered in the context of a dynamic and evolving process of international norm-setting, bearing in mind the significance of national and regional particularities and various historical, cultural and religious backgrounds;
>9. Recognize further that States have the primary responsibility for the promotion and protection of human rights through appropriate infrastructure and mechanisms, and also recognize that remedies must be sought and provided primarily through such mechanisms and procedures;

tl;dr: North Korea decides for itself what human rights are within its territory, like all nation-states should.
>>
>>39481003
>Detaining a man six months from his country for littering
>>
>>39481012
>The rest of your post was inconsequential.

So if something is inconsequential, I didn't mean to say it?

>North Korea decides for itself what human rights are within its territory

So, any action taken by a state is automatically justified because human rights have already been established to allow them?
>>
>>39481012
Forgot those clauses:

>26. Reiterate the need to explore the possibilities of establishing regional arrangements for the promotion and protection of human rights in Asia;
>27. Reiterate further the need to explore ways to generate international cooperation and financial support for education and training in the field of human rights at the national level and for the establishment of national infrastructures to promote and protect human rights if requested by States;

The purpose of the "world government" must be to promote cooperation and help advance the local governments, not replace them. International law does not supersede national law.
>>
>>39474049
Dat Chinese investment
>>
>>39481202
>So, any action taken by a state is automatically justified because human rights have already been established to allow them?
Assuming the rule of law.
Either your rights are guaranteed by law or they're fictional. There's no use whining about your "human rights" when you're on trial for hate speech or holocaust denial.
>>
>>39481224
North Korea frequently violates the rights of its citizens that are guaranteed by its constitution, so even using your circular definition, its violating human rights.
>>
>>39481344
Extrajudicial transgressions are a completely different issue. Fowle was arrested and booked for trial, not garroted and quietly buried in a ditch.
If anything, his release was special treatment due to external pressure.
>>
>>39481461
No, I mean the trial that are routinely denied to its citizens for political crimes.
>>
>>39477166
it isn't

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/newspapers/new-york-tribune.htm

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/newspapers/rheinische-zeitung.htm

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/newspapers/vorwarts.htm

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/newspapers/northern-star.htm

&c &c &c
>>
>>39481502
Because, like most Asian countries, North Korea is not governed by the rule of law and largely relies on arbitrary decisions from the national to the local level:
>One study indicates that throughout East Asia, only South Korea, Singapore, Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong have societies that are robustly committed to a law-bound state.

Which may be good or bad, but it has nothing to do with Fowle's case, or most of the other missionaries that were arrested before him.
>>
>>39481571
>Writing for newspapers
>job
>Posting articles written exclusively by Engels
>>
>>39481654
>routinely denied to its citizens for political crimes.
>missionaries
>citizens
>>
>>39477043
>Julius Evola

>Never ran a company
>Never held a political office
>Never oversaw any accounts
>Never even held a job, except that one time he was drafted and played the artillery officer because he's a noble
>Supported throughout his life by his aristocratic family

Hell, this wiki quote says it all:
>During his youth, he studied engineering and received excellent grades, but did not continue his studies because he "did not want to be bourgeoisie"
Working is for plebs and counting coins is for Jews.
>>
>>39481743
>missionaries
>citizens
Are you trying to support my point or something? Because Fowle and those other foreign missionaries were not NK citizens obviously.
>>
>>39477698
>>39477906
We need more Otoya Yamaguchis these days, particularly in Ferguson.
>>
>>39473619
How does it feel being perpetually stuck in 1917, you literal fucking throwback?
>>
>>39481818
And unlike Marx, he never married or had children.
>>
>>39479937
This so much.
>>
>>39477770
Not surprising considering commies themselves don't work.
>>
>>39481868
I said,
>>39481344
>North Korea frequently violates the rights of its citizens
You response to that was irrelevant bullshit about Fowle, irrelevant as it was't related to my statement because I used the term "citizens", which would obviously exclude missionaries.
>>39481461
I clarified again that I was speaking about CITIZENS by saying "No", and clarifying that I as referring to the rights denied to its citizens
>>39481502
Again, your selective literacy flared again by focusing on Fowle, again>>39481654
One more time I try to explain as simply as possible that I'm referring to citizens and not missionaries>>39481743
The few brain cells working spark up again by brushing up against the truth that you've been bloviating this entire time. Then, a front lobe shuts down completely and your stupidity is cranked up to 11 by interpreting my overtly obvious statements to support your noxious rambling.
Was that slow enough for you retard, or do I have to start using hand signals?
>>
>>39473166
>b-but my special snowflake brand of communism has never been tried before!
>>
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>>39473166
Quite easily OP, half the time they don't know its Marxism that they're pushing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeMZGGQ0ERk
>>
>>39482218
No wonder I couldn't tell what your point was: it's because your replies had nothing to do with what were previously discussing. Well, thanks for clearing that up.
What was your point again? That North Korea is an arbitrary dictatorship? Thank you Captain Obvious, you can go now.
>>
>>39482840
>it's because your replies had nothing to do with what were previously discussing.

Nice try but I used the word citizens three times which could not have applied to Fowle or other missionaries. Furthermore, numerous attempts were already posted before about North Korea denying guaranteed rights to its C-I-T-I-Z-E-N-S. However obvious I might have had to become, you apparently didn't get it the first three times.
>>
>picture taken during a power-outage
>"look, how awful communism is!"
>Vietnam, Cuba and other socialist republics are lit up.
>>
>>39483045
Yes, I thought it was just a mistake or abuse of languages the first two times because I simply couldn't make sense of your reply. You started talking about North Korea denying trial to its citizens while we were debating whether North Korea "rightfully arresting a man [a tourist at that] for 6 months" for missionary efforts was a violation of human rights or not.
>>
>>39483068
>Lying on the internet

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/23/north-korea-by-night-satellite-images-shed-new-light-on-the-secretive-state
>>
>hasnt been tried right guys
>din do nuffin wrong guys

The left... notice a pattern?
Protip
>nothing ever matches their fantasy so it has "never been tried right" or "they din do nuffin"

Mean while they keep investing in the same shit philosophy with the same results.
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