>>39473166 Well, what most people thing of as communism and what Karl Marx established in the communist manifesto as communism are very different things for one thing, it was never supposed to be about totalitarian dictatorships and mass killings (such as in Soviet Russia, Vietnam, China, N Korea, Cambodia, etc) it was suppposed to be about the working class rising up and taking control form the idle rich giving everyone a better lot in life, unfortunately people are greedy and power hungry so it hasn't actually work in real life in any place that has attempted it yet.
actually north korea was better off than south korea for most of communism until america got to china and started forcing the soviets to decentralize their economy, deindustrialize and deskill their workforce and make them a simple natural resource producing colony for west europe. all that despite the fact that soviet "communism" was really just an inefficient restructuring of capitalism and it still did better than the wests already solidified colonial capitalist empire.
>>39473348 Well for one thing they may have implemented those things properly, but they failed to implement the distribution of resources and many other things that would have been necessary for it to have worked properly, also if they hadn't ran around killing people for no reason (Stalin's purges) it probably would have turned out much better for them.
I live in the capital of Canada, parts of this capital are unable to get internet access. My power goes out so often I should be starting a lawsuit against the provider for destroying my electronics. My TV box wont even start up anymore.
North Korea has a lot of terrible outside pressures they cant avoid, they are doing their best but self defense is the most important priority, if they didnt have to spend so much money on researching missile deterrents, they could spend more on social services.
This is why philosophy still matters, incidentally. Once you figure out that socialism (and the broader leftist umbrella, for the most part) is sophistry applied to the realm of politics, everything becomes much simpler.
>>39473523 communism will soon become the only way for the lower clases of humanity to survive, comrade. look it up, human labor in the next couple of decades is going to become largely unnecessary. from driving jobs such as truckers and cabbies (googlies driver less cars), to manufacturing and agriculture (Baxter the and other automated systems) to even management positions (several algorithm programs that can pinpoint what needs to be done to increase profitability)
>>39473537 it was tried by russia and only russia. people who then wanted to take power in other countries sought to form governments that mimic russia and be a part of their system so that russia would support them and increase their chances of success.
>>39473619 >human labor in the next couple of decades is going to become largely unnecessary.
Machines fix themselves and construct themselves. Machines can also research their own future growth and plan accordingly.
I think what you meant to say was that the human population will be smaller in the future and more educated if menial tasks can be completed by machines. I don't get what world you live in where suddenly robots can do most of the work but people are too stupid to think that maybe one child is enough instead of 8.
>>39473490 Thievery is in their blood. Once you come to realize that all the shit going in Africa at the moment - from hazardous water to disease to murder and rape - is caused by black communism, remove whitey and all the other stupid shit they carried out back in the day. Then you realize that you can't really blame God for any of the shit that happens.
>>39473678 >I think what you meant to say was that the human population will be smaller in the future and more educated if menial tasks can be completed by machines. I don't get what world you live in where suddenly robots can do most of the work but people are too stupid to think that maybe one child is enough instead of 8.
That is the problem, people are fucking stupid, there wont be enough jobs to go around but stupid people will keep shitting out kids leading to either a much more massive welfare system (most likely) communism being adopted and finally working (less likely) or a crazy increased crime rate of happening levels because of all the unemployment. (least likely)
>>39473798 >communism being adopted and finally working
We're talking in layman, hypothetical, future scenario terms here.
It's possible that, if this apocalyptic future whereby robots do everything (Luddite spotted) exists, then the need for labor is diminished. Meaning that capitalism eventually led to a paradise where no one has to work as machines do it all. Meaning we win again
>>39473870 >>39473919 communism being neccisary to destrbut the goods created by the robots. >under capitalism >go to school for education to get job >get job use job to get money >use money from job to buy wants and needs to live comfortably So how would you afford to live with no job therefor no money? Then how will capitalism work?
>>39473278 >never supposed to be about totalitarian dictatorships >dictatorship of the proletariat >b-b-but a such a dictatorship wouldn't be totalitarian
The history of humanity not on your side. The Frankfurt school already accepted that Marxism was already flawed in its original premises. Karl Marx propounded his theories at the one point in time it could have been plausible and every single manifestation in all of its forms has failed miserably. There isn't some magical element that has been lacking in every single communist state that would somehow unite all the other disastrous elements into something superior to capitalism.
>>39474022 That won't happen though. Anybody with any sense of critical thinking can see that the masses will just lynch the rich if that happened and take it for themselves. Numbers will win that battle.
>>39474043 its not hard to exterminate a population. the hard part is convincing a population to be loyal to you. if the system has no need for your services to function properly there is nothing stopping it from killing you
>>39474006 >It has nothing to do with public education or people seeking to sell labor rather than entrepreneurship. Stop attacking men of straw. no straw man inteded comrade, i was simply pointing out that they way the economic system is set up with the majority of the people being paid for time spent doing a task will be unsupportable in what many indications show is the probable future of the next couple of decades. >>39474022 that is exactly the point. that is why the people will rise up and seize control of the means of production.
>>39474152 Well, they are wiping out third part of the world's population using hunger now. Not that they want to do it, it is system that makes people go hungry despite world's production ability to supply everyone with enough food.
>>39474185 The population in the third world is actually growing though. So the numbers are only going to become more lopsided.
>>39474191 If society collapses then wealth becomes meaningless idiot. We just go back to a feudal-Mafia system of everybody killing each other to survive. The people won't die off because they will just take what they need to survive.
>>39474150 once the robotics have been fully implemented (which are in the process of being developed and implemented) and human labor has fallen to the point of being unnecessary. then the uprising shell commence.
>>39474283 >Once the reality of economics and human consumption will fundamentally change, then my completely fantastic scenario will manifest itself.
By the way, this is the exact opposite conditions that Marx stipulated would result in a revolution by the proletariat, but both situations are equally absurd, so keep on building your communes in the sky.
>>39474305 every government in the world except for iran north korea and formerly libya owes loyalty to international corporations and cant be trusted to provide an accurate picture of events. of course the news services of those countries will have obvious biases as well, but by comparing and contrasting and doing a little research into the underlying sciences you can get somewhat of a glimpse into whats going on
>>39474305 Capitalists of any country will try to descredit socialist countries any means possible. That's not about trustworthy news sources, it's about sources of those news. For example, north korean defectors are bad sources since they: don't have jobs and any means of income once on southern side; USA/South Korea forces them to cooperate with government; if they ran away from North Korea they sure as hell don't want to return
>>39474366 they dont. modern leftists are still capitalist as all hell they are just selfish and whiny about it. identity politics like the modern left concern themselves with and pol calls cultural marxism is only found in capitalist societies where whiny entitled bourgeoisie are allowed to develop
>>39473166 >North Korea:people can rest after day of work and don't need light >South Korea-people have to work 24 hours per day and need light to continue working during the night Nice try capitalist.
>>39474452 >Discredits every news source that is using logic fallacies and lies but accepts a video filmed in North Korea that looks trustworthy Fixed. I am not disregarding everything I don't like because I have my own opinion. First, I find why other opinions are wrong and only then make my own opinion.
>>39474456 Most of the economic isolation of North Korea is self-imposed and the other sanctions are entirely the result of human rights violations. Besides, you are arguing uno flatu that North Korea's economic stagnation is caused by its isolation right after you try to paint a brighter picture of it's economic state.
>>39474587 The mere fact that it a short video of a small part of one city that "looks trustworthy" and is of an unknown source is not more credible than the mass of evidence provided by other countries that are supposed to represent the entirety of the country over a span of several yera.
>>39474594 >other sanctions are entirely the result of human rights violations Which didn't happen and are entirely fake. >Besides, you are arguing uno flatu that North Korea's economic stagnation is caused by its isolation right after you try to paint a brighter picture of it's economic state. It's economy is doing not as bad as you think.It is not permanent starvation and despair like in Africa, it is relatively poor country.
>It's economy is doing not as bad as you think. Evidence beyond a video please, and the comparison to Africa, an entire continent and universally agree to be the most backwards continent in the world, is an absolute joke.
>>39474715 You have not presented more compelling evidence. Until you have, I won't consider you any more deluded than the daily stormweenies that deny that millions of jews were killed in the Holocaust..
>>39474747 This UN report is based upon 60 defectors' made up stories. It has no truth in it. >You have not presented more compelling evidence Because I'll have to google it for a long time. Also, I read only russian sources regarding North Korea, if you want some I can present it to you.
>and the comparison to Africa Because capfags think that North Korea is doing even worse than Africa.
>>39474841 Why should I believe your sources over that of the UN? Even if you post sources, I find your argument that every single one of them is untrustworthy because muh corporatism.
>Because capfags think that North Korea is doing even worse than Africa.
That's a completely irrelevant strawman because it was never mentioned in this thread and is equivalent to refuting the notion that everyone's lives in a communist country is equivalent to slavery, which is undoubtedly believed by capfags.
>>39473166 >I am legit curious as to how this world can still have people touting and truly believing in Communism
It tends to be a consequence of narcissism and an adolescent power fantasy. The ultimate foundation of communism is that the "intellectuals" get to decide how much of any given commodity you deserve.
Dwell on that. These "intellectuals" get to decide what house you live in, what job you do, what food you eat, what income you have. They decide this because they are "intellectual" and understand everything so much better than you ever could.
You can easily see how this appeals to a bullied adolescent or an unpopular neckbeard. They fantasise about punishing their bullies and rewarding the girls they have crushes on. It is pure power fantasy and that is the moral and intellectual foundation of communist thought.
>>39474977 >Because I already showed you that defectors are untrustworthy. Compare with Nurnberg, look at what was used as proofs at Nurnberg.
See, you dubiously attempted to answer the negative of the answer, but even assuming that the entirely of all evidence brought by any source that suggests North Korea isn't the communist utopia suggested by their propaganda has no weight, you haven't demonstrated the trustworthiness of your sources that show conclusively that North Korean communism is working swimmingly.
>>39475201 >this is what nazis actually believe stalin murdered more jews than hitler was even accused of. he created jew murder squads with jewish members and then murdered those jews too. he also killed a shit ton of kazaks hohols and mudslimes, guy was the king of sneaky genocide
>>39474988 >These "intellectuals" get to decide what house you live in, what job you do, what food you eat, what income you have. They decide this because they are "intellectual" and understand everything so much better than you ever could.
yeah, no, I bring you Cambodia: >Under Pol Pot's leadership, and within days of overthrowing the government, the Khmer Rouge embarked on an organised mission: they ruthlessly imposed an extremist programme to reconstruct Cambodia (now under its Khmer name Kampuchea) on the communist model of Mao's China. The population must, they believed, be made to work as labourers in one huge federation of collective farms. Anyone in opposition - and all intellectuals and educated people were assumed to be - must be eliminated, together with all un-communist aspects of traditional Cambodian society.
>>39475250 No, that wasn't the original point. The original point was that >North Korea looks rather normal.
I tried to rebut your argument with various sources you considered completely untrustworthy and unbelievable, suggesting you had sources that were more trustworthy. I allowed for the argument that the sources I posted could not be trusted, but I do not consider various Russian videos without any context more trustworthy than that of every other institution.
>>39475329 >I tried to rebut your argument with various sources you considered completely untrustworthy and unbelievable, suggesting you had sources that were more trustworthy So, if there is only one opinion on a subject then this opinion must be correct?
>>39475401 You are demanding proofs for the opposite despite me merely disproving your UN report. Look, your opinion is wrong. All I did was proving that, not trying to enforce my opinion. %%I'm not native with english, I just can't say it proper way%%
>>39475477 >You are demanding proofs for the opposite despite me merely disproving your UN report.
Firstly, I didn't demand proofs for the opposite, I merely stated that the evidence that you did present was not more compelling. Secondly, I demanded am argument that your sources would be more compelling than the ones that I posted. Thirdly, even if I did demand more evidence, that still would not imply that I believe that, "if there is only one opinion on a subject then this opinion must be correct."
>Look, your opinion is wrong. Which opinion, exactly?
>>39475587 >Firstly, I didn't demand proofs for the opposite, I merely stated that the evidence that you did present was not more compelling. I said that defectors are not trustworthy and showed exactly why it is. This is all I ever need to disprove something - finding why statement is false. I don't need to find proofs of the opposite, dammit. >Which opinion, exactly? You said something about violation of human rights in NK.
>>39475665 I already allowed that the source from the UN, and every other news outlet, could be suspect, but I don't accept that any of your sources would be trusthworthy or reliable. >You said something about violation of human rights in NK. So, there are no human rights violations in North Korea?
>>39476048 >The abduction of Japanese civilians isn't a violation of human rights? This plot is rather twisted. Well, I assume that abductions happened, while some of the abductees were seeking asylum. This is a violation, but every country in the world did something like that at least once.
>>39476040 >The UN considers that a human rights violation. If I understand this correctly, those reform through labour camps are something like soviet ones. There work was not only paid, but could shorten the term of inprisonment. Also, prisoners were allowed to live in their own houses on a conditions that they will come to work. Working week was 42 hours long. Reform through labour, just like they said.
>>39476459 A year-long investigation by the United Nations Commission of Inquiry on Human Rights in North Korea published its results at the start of this year, further shining a light on the camps. While the report's authors noted that numbers in the camps seemed to have decreased, there were still 80,000 to 120,000 people in the camps, imprisoned without trial for crimes as minor as criticizing the Kim dynasty or trying to organize Christian services.
North Korea isn't communism. It's Monarch. You should have figured it out by now.
If you want a good example of communism, or rather National Socialism, you don't need to look further. China and Japan are practically Socialist States, yet their economy have been thriving for many years.
>>39476435 >https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2013/north-korea Bullshit. They just don't show on TV antiNK propaganda. Discs coming from the China are not censored - it is just impossible to do. >Although televisions are required to be fixed to official channels, nearly one-third of the population—mainly those living along the Chinese and South Korean borders—reported accessing foreign television broadcasts, according to a May 2012 report by InterMedia. Yeah, they are openly admitting it, yet they interpret is as some censorship occurring. >>39476522 >imprisoned without trial for crimes as minor as criticizing the Kim dynasty or trying to organize Christian services. I remember those tales about soviet prisoners. Total and utter bullshit. They can't throw someone in prison without a trial, it is forbidden by constitution.
>>39476559 Japan has been in a recession for more than 20 years with an extraordinary debt-to-gdp and in China, a middle class has only arisen recently and many suspect that a bubble has been forming for some time.
Furthermore, very few would describe China as a proper example of successful communism as it's economic prominence only arose once the country gained more economic freedom
>Communism can be equated with National Socialism >Japan is National Socialist >Ergo, Japan is communist
I was going to say that you should feel silly now, but you are just a complete retard.
>>39476711 Japan has a market economy. Japan has private ownership of goods.
North Korean isn't exaclty communist either. In the beginning that was the line the towed, where as now the free market is starting to fix it, but they're still buttfucked from their Juche rhetoric striking fear into the yankees and thier Jew masters.
I applaud their race based ideology. I applaud thier staunch self reliance. I wish they'd open up their markets and ease up on the human rights violations. I'm sure if they did that the ROK would want to rejoin them (South Koreans are very against multiculti but to pussy to do anything about it). Koreans need a strong leader-- it's their national character.
>>39476901 >In the beginning that was the line the towed, where as now the free market is starting to fix it So, you think that NK is starting to implement capitalism? What makes you to think so? I mean, I frequently hear this but there is just no real evidence behind this statement.
>>39476667 Are there lawyers available for indigent prisoners on appeal? We found no information on whether the state provides lawyers for indigent prisoners on appeal. There are reports that in any event, authorities only provide lawyers and trials to non-political offenders. Citizens suspected of committing political crimes are taken to prison camps without trial  and are unlikely to be provided with any possibility of appeal.
>>39477014 That isn't communism, that would be socialism. Under socialism, the workers own the means of production, while under communism, all private property is abolished, which would not apply to a credit union any more than a publically traded company.
>>39476983 >We found no information on whether the state provides lawyers for indigent prisoners on appeal No information, yet they think the state doesn't provide the lawyer. >And from other sources? From South Korea? Probably. From China and Russia - not. Also, considering the amount of tourists visiting NK each year those claims on censorship are just stupid. >Forcing televisions to be fixed to certain channels isn't a violation of human rights? How are you supposed to fix TVs to certain channel? I mean, doesn't it require perfect understanding of each and every TV's inner structire? Don't you think the claim that TVs are fixed looks implausible?
>>39474915 South Africa and Egypt are worse than Best Korea? I think either stand is silly because, there's a lot of difference between various African countries. Eritrea and either of the Congos are worse than the DPRK
>>39477043 Marx, Engels and Hegel were simply allowed to play pretend Jews whilst documenting the communist Jesuit reductions of South America that built the Spanish Empire. Don't believe their lies, in fact you should never even read Hegel, it's not good for your health.
>>39476979 They aren't officially. I know that markets exist there as a matter of fact, even though they're forbidden de jure.
For instance, South Korean choco-pies (shitty gook ripoff of American Moonpies) are one of the most popular goods there. The people there watch South Korean dramas.
See reviews of the book "the cleanest race" for an actual analysis of the North Korean situation. The paid lip service to communism to get support, but their ideology is purely race based nationalism and has been since the beginning. They never had any intentions of going full commie.
"Citizens suspected of committing political crimes are taken to prison camps without trial  and are unlikely to be provided with any possibility of appeal."
>From South Korea? Probably. From China and Russia - not. Also, considering the amount of tourists visiting NK each year those claims on censorship are just stupid.
"Under the penal code, listening to unauthorized foreign broadcasts and possessing dissident publications are considered “crimes against the state” that carry serious punishments, including hard labor, prison sentences, and the death penalty."
"Radio and TV sets in North Korea are supplied pre-tuned to government stations and radios must be checked and registered with the police." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6037715.stm
>>39473278 Unfortunately that only works on a community by community basis. The idea of america.. Atleast in the classical we the people, states are powerful and the federal government is more like the glue that binds the states together idea... Is basically what these retards want. But they are so fucking stupid that they think the only way they can get a strong community is to force it upon everyone with a strong centralized government. Too bad there aren't any moderately sized communities with semi syndicalist companies operating as 'economic export hubs' with everyone trying to strengthen their community through cooperation. I mean they exist but its all very small communes populated by retarded hippies. Shit will never happen as long as multinational corporations and rampant materialism exist.
It is horribly sad but I can't imagine a scenario where such a reality comes into existence that doesn't involve 1) the happening and 2) a massive cull
>>39477247 >I know that markets exist there as a matter of fact, even though they're forbidden de jure. No, market is not forbidden. Why do you even though that? Collective farmers can trade their goods on a market. >For instance, South Korean choco-pies (shitty gook ripoff of American Moonpies) are one of the most popular goods there. The people there watch South Korean dramas. So, this is now a criteria of a capitalist state. Good to know, lol. >>39477296 Are those statements based upon real evidence? I don't think so. Meanwhile, mine are based on common sense and constitution.
>>39477225 >How is socialist a country that has private ownership on means of production? I'm not that other guy your arguing with. I have made no statments regarding whether China is communist or not. But, I will argue that Japan is capitalist because of the high degree of free market trade in every sector of the economy and public services.
>>39477431 >"A December 2007 amendment to the penal code extended the death penalty to many more crimes, including non-violent offenses such as fraud and smuggling." So? How this contradicts the constitution? Be not executed for fraud is some sort of human right? Not that I think it is just law. In fact, I didn't see any real evidence of this law existance. It is not a human right violation.
>>39477606 >North Korea executes 10 officials for watching South Korean soap operas >South Korea's intelligence agency revealed this week that North Korea executed 10 officials by firing squad for watching South Korean soap operas, engaging in bribes and womanizing, The Independent reports. >engaging in bribes
>>39477606 >http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/10/north_korea_executes_officials_soap_operas_south_korea_kim_jong_un.html Are you retarded? How the hell does North Korea executing a bunch people change whether or not Japan has a capitalist economy?
>>39477838 "It's a covert act and a violation of tourists' rules," Fowle said of trying to leave the Bible. "I've admitted my guilt to the government and signed a statement to that effect and requested forgiveness from the people and the government of the DPRK."
>>39478044 Well, that would generally and consistently be considered a violation of human rights by almost the entirety of the western world. I suppose that we may agree to disagree and I'm convinced that banning bibles because of their content is a violation of human rights.
>North Korea banning ideological propaganda.
>>39478135 You basically gave away your entire argument. After denying every source that had any connection to the West, you finally admitted that a man was rightfully detained for six months because he left a bible in a nightclub. That's a violation of human rights, deal with it XD
>>39478265 This would have been a b8 response if you haven't been doing this for four hours, you hadn't made it obvious that English isn't your first language, and you used BTFO completely incorrect, as if I had to be a Christian to defend the Bible being freely distributed or be a Nazi to defend Mein Kampf being published.
By the way, the counter-example of Mein Kampf really doesn't work on this board that's filled with actual Nazis, people who are sympathetic to Hitler's views, people who would fully support such free expression, and the fact that Mein Kampf is almost certainly freely available in your country.
>>39477755 What? no, if someone makes a shitty meal, I can tell them it's shitty, even if I'm not a 5-star chef. A chef can probably do a better job of telling you exactly what's wrong with it, but an average Joe can still say "It's shit" and be correct.
Jews are still pushing communism in academia and universities. They need useful idiots to do their bidding. Communists are basically the best goyim in the world. They are internationalists they want to eliminate borders the family they want a planned economy run by Jewish commisars etc.
if the rich were "idle" it would be easy to take their shit, and if it was easy it would have happened a long time ago people who are rich today have worked for it, whether through actually earning their resources through hard work, or just bowing to the establishment and paying people to keep freeloaders and niggers out of their area
>>39477838 >>39477934 >>39478009 >>39478195 >Waaah I should be able to go anywhere in the world and start converting people to my political and religious identity even though I'm just a worthless foreign tourist Get. The. Fuck. Out.
>>39480652 >Furthermore The rest of your post was inconsequential. >muh human rights North Korea, bless them, doesn't give a shit about your Western definitions, like most Asian countries: faculty.washington.edu/swhiting/pols469/Bangkok_Declaration.doc
>3. Stress the urgent need to democratize the United Nations system, eliminate selectivity and improve procedures and mechanisms in order to strengthen international cooperation, based on principles of equality and mutual respect, and ensure a positive, balanced and non-confrontational approach in addressing and realizing all aspects of human rights; >5. Emphasize the principles of respect for national sovereignty and territorial integrity as well as non-interference in the internal affairs of States, and the non-use of human rights as an instrument of political pressure; >6. Reiterate that all countries, large and small, have the right to determine their political systems, control and freely utilize their resources, and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development; >8. Recognize that while human rights are universal in nature, they must be considered in the context of a dynamic and evolving process of international norm-setting, bearing in mind the significance of national and regional particularities and various historical, cultural and religious backgrounds; >9. Recognize further that States have the primary responsibility for the promotion and protection of human rights through appropriate infrastructure and mechanisms, and also recognize that remedies must be sought and provided primarily through such mechanisms and procedures;
tl;dr: North Korea decides for itself what human rights are within its territory, like all nation-states should.
>26. Reiterate the need to explore the possibilities of establishing regional arrangements for the promotion and protection of human rights in Asia; >27. Reiterate further the need to explore ways to generate international cooperation and financial support for education and training in the field of human rights at the national level and for the establishment of national infrastructures to promote and protect human rights if requested by States;
The purpose of the "world government" must be to promote cooperation and help advance the local governments, not replace them. International law does not supersede national law.
>>39481202 >So, any action taken by a state is automatically justified because human rights have already been established to allow them? Assuming the rule of law. Either your rights are guaranteed by law or they're fictional. There's no use whining about your "human rights" when you're on trial for hate speech or holocaust denial.
>>39481344 Extrajudicial transgressions are a completely different issue. Fowle was arrested and booked for trial, not garroted and quietly buried in a ditch. If anything, his release was special treatment due to external pressure.
>>39481502 Because, like most Asian countries, North Korea is not governed by the rule of law and largely relies on arbitrary decisions from the national to the local level: >One study indicates that throughout East Asia, only South Korea, Singapore, Japan, Taiwan and Hong Kong have societies that are robustly committed to a law-bound state.
Which may be good or bad, but it has nothing to do with Fowle's case, or most of the other missionaries that were arrested before him.
>Never ran a company >Never held a political office >Never oversaw any accounts >Never even held a job, except that one time he was drafted and played the artillery officer because he's a noble >Supported throughout his life by his aristocratic family
Hell, this wiki quote says it all: >During his youth, he studied engineering and received excellent grades, but did not continue his studies because he "did not want to be bourgeoisie" Working is for plebs and counting coins is for Jews.
>>39481868 I said, >>39481344 >North Korea frequently violates the rights of its citizens You response to that was irrelevant bullshit about Fowle, irrelevant as it was't related to my statement because I used the term "citizens", which would obviously exclude missionaries. >>39481461 I clarified again that I was speaking about CITIZENS by saying "No", and clarifying that I as referring to the rights denied to its citizens >>39481502 Again, your selective literacy flared again by focusing on Fowle, again>>39481654 One more time I try to explain as simply as possible that I'm referring to citizens and not missionaries>>39481743 The few brain cells working spark up again by brushing up against the truth that you've been bloviating this entire time. Then, a front lobe shuts down completely and your stupidity is cranked up to 11 by interpreting my overtly obvious statements to support your noxious rambling. Was that slow enough for you retard, or do I have to start using hand signals?
>>39482218 No wonder I couldn't tell what your point was: it's because your replies had nothing to do with what were previously discussing. Well, thanks for clearing that up. What was your point again? That North Korea is an arbitrary dictatorship? Thank you Captain Obvious, you can go now.
>>39482840 >it's because your replies had nothing to do with what were previously discussing.
Nice try but I used the word citizens three times which could not have applied to Fowle or other missionaries. Furthermore, numerous attempts were already posted before about North Korea denying guaranteed rights to its C-I-T-I-Z-E-N-S. However obvious I might have had to become, you apparently didn't get it the first three times.
>>39483045 Yes, I thought it was just a mistake or abuse of languages the first two times because I simply couldn't make sense of your reply. You started talking about North Korea denying trial to its citizens while we were debating whether North Korea "rightfully arresting a man [a tourist at that] for 6 months" for missionary efforts was a violation of human rights or not.
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