>>36430283 >the innovation itself, is stifled Great but why and whats your solution? >and misapplied in capitalism Wonderful now can you explain your conclusion? >The actual innovators most often stolen from See above
>Muh Wage slavery True to a point but the exact same can be said of Communism.
Anybody who disagrees with OP's post is just an indoctrinated capitalist shill. I'm calling it now.
There couldn't be a more basic description of what is happening in Capitalism, if you can't understand/read it then you're not fit for society and certainly NOT capable of making actual political choices.
>>36430744 Yeah because Capitalism killed WAY more then that. If all hunger deaths under Communism are to be the fault of Communism then all the deads under Capitalist poverty should be to blame on Capitalism.
TL;DR, If you apply the method you calculate deaths in Communism to Capitalism then you would get statics higher then you thought was possible.
>>36430767 You really believe that? You really think that when poverty is involved, your enemies are to be automatically involved as well? You're a pathetic man who probably thinks there is a conspiracy behind everything.
Every one of you is afraid to admit that he was right because you're afraid that you'll be labled a commie through guilt by association. This is really too transparent.
Hey OP, you're a goddamn faggot.
Via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge#Number_of_people_executed 
Source:  "Communism: A History (Modern Library Chronicles) by Richard Pipes, pg 67"
Quote: "According to the declassified Soviet archives, during 1937 and 1938, the NKVD detained 1,548,366 persons, of whom 681,692 were shot - an average of 1,000 executions a day (in comparison, the Tsarists executed 3,932 persons for political crimes from 1825 to 1910 - an average of less than 1 execution per week)", unquote.
The truth is that ALL regionally dominant political and military powers in the post-Industrial Revolution world are guilty of mass murder of one form or another. It is all merely rebranded with various popular buzzwords and contexts are shifted to make it all more compatible with the generational social apologetic process.
We bitch here in /pol/ DAILY about every same exact point that the commie made. You're all fucking retarded
Grow some fucking balls, /pol/.
And quit posting pictures of faggots fucking each other. As if you needed to be told.
Welfare stifles progress....okay, transition from welfare to subsistence (primary goal of capitalism: That through the provision of one man unto himself, the surplus exceeding necessity may be given unto others as per their own subsistence.)
Poverty is the quality of life falling short of what is required as to sustain a healthy living. Welfare, therefore, combats poverty. Food stamps, gov't provisions, all of it.
The subservience found within capitalism confounds the entire notion of what capitalism truly represents: private ownership; not being privately owned.
The only form of true economic freedom is self subsistence. And the gov't in nearly all nations forbids that. Take it up with the gov, not the economists.
Considering the poverty levels now include whether or not you have cable, if you have less than 3 whitegoods and if you do not have a car the term is virtually worthless outside of the statists call for bigger government to 'solve' this
US intervention in Latin America: 6.3 million dead Invasion of Philippines: 650,000 dead + 1898 war 3 million dead Afghanistan: 1.2 million dead Vietnam War: 10 million dead Korean War: 10 million dead Yugoslavia: 300,000 dead Iran-Iraq War (US funding both sides): 1 million dead US intervention in Congo: 5 million dead US Civil War (financial vs land capitalists) 650,000 dead Native American genocide: 95 million dead African slave trade: 150 million dead Indonesian purges against communists: 1 million dead (underestimate) US Bombing of Laos and Cambodia: at least 1 million dead US backed Batista, Pinochet, Metaxas, Saddam, Suharto, and various dictators supported by the United States: at least a few million
Bengal Famine: 10 million dead British Occupation of India: 20 million dead Famine in Held British India: 30 million Irish potato famine (British farmers could have helped): 1.5 million
Japanese imperialism in China and Asia: 12 million South African apartheid: 3.5 million Spanish Civil War: 350,000 French colonies: 1 million dead
Doesn't include Belgiums adventures in the congo.
>>36430973 But those "dictators" never actually intentionally killed millions upon millions. Monsters like Stalin killed about 700k people during the great purge and that was pretty much it. The rest of all those deaths are to be accounted to famine.
>>36430283 no "capitalist" boogey man Again with the oppressor vs oppressed narrative he tells you who is the oppressor and oppressed then gives reasons why the system is wrong, never proving the oppression narrative. His definitions are meant to be taken as proof and further arguements are nothign but circular logic. Why are they exploted? Because they are oppressed. Why oppressed, because capitalism exploites them. How? Capitalists are oppressrs. How?... USW USW
>>36431071 Can't you just google search instead of pretending to know everything on an imageboard? Do you expect me to spoonfeed you?
>>36431120 Only a guy with HUGE insecurity would react like that on the internet. Do you have grender/sexuality/identity issues or just want to be edgy?
Furthermore, if that is what "shocked" you then i assume you've come from Stormfront or something else related to that shit, since anyone who spend longer then 5 minutes on 4chan has seen more then that. So please, fuck off and pretend to be a tough guy while RP'ing with your mom.
>>36431159 >Even wikipedia, a site which is known to support leftist ideals acknowledges it. How fucking delusional are you? This baffled me, do you really believe this? Wikipedia is leftist as fuck in the sense that it provides free information instantly to anybody who requires so but holy shit if you believe Wikipedia is leftist then you've got 0% idea what is happening in the world.
>>36431195 You are aware the Libertarianism is just Capitalism without all those pesky regulations for Corporations, right? It would turn into a dystopia the second it were to be installed.
>>36431210 >I've lost an argument >HURR I KNOW! LET'S NAMECALL!
>>36430780 It doesn't say anything about communism, or a control economy. I think the poster is saying capitalism (or, rather, the form of capitalism we have today) doesn't work, ergo it should be fixed.
Why are you incapable of dropping it? Does a little tightpants think he has something to prove? Go ahead, try to make me ashamed of your disgusting immoral bullshit some more. Not that you need to be dared. Come on, plaster up your gay shit everywhere. A dozen more pictures. Get off topic some more. Masturbate your disgusting queer self some more in the wrong forum.
>>36431239 Actually, Communism is just getting started. Chinese Maoism focusses on increasing economical standards until it is leading the world economy, then to turn into true Socialism. If you've been keeping up with modern developments, this is nearly happening.
Furthermore, Gorbachov disbanded the Soviet Union because at that point it would've been easier to increase the living standards trough capitalism instead of Socialism. Now, a few decades later, Russia is at the technical point where it could play the mother role in a communist dual state.
Communism isn't dead, we're just getting started.
>>36431362 >hurr durr i'm super insecure because i'm a virgin and daddy stopped putting his finger into my anus. :c
>>36430283 you the funniest part of this entire thing, the whole entire "communism is the future" thing was started when someone thought it would be funny to push communism. just like how MLP fanbase among autists started, someone somewhere thought it would be funny to pretend to like it. think about it, commies are the new MLP
>>36431400 The soviets used central planning so they could build up siberia and defend it from china and japan. It worked for that purpose (who the hell would willingly go to siberia) and it worked to set up a sphere of influence effectively impervious to british and american global capitalist influence, but to suggest that it would be somehow useful for america is ridiculous. What could we possibly gain from that?
>>36431394 Insult instead of a argument? Truly shows your capability.
>>36431400 >>36431438 >>36431592 Intentionally sending out the hook with bait are you not? No, the holocaust and the documentation on it is about as truthful as the statistics in the image you posted earlier on growth/death.
>everybody should get paid the same amount for everyjob, no matter what you do >anyone who thinks outside of the government approved thoughts, gets purged >anyone who has a different opinion than the elected officials, gets purged >anyone that disagrees with the elected officials and government, gets purged based communism, it's an SJW paradise
They self-identify as a communist state. I am well-aware that what they're practising is not communism.
It would be state-capitalist socialism much like what the USSR was doing, however, China is closer to a communist system than the USSR ever was in that they try to get everyone into the communist party.
>>36431710 The difference is that deutschland was in a situation of both embargo as well being pushed back into territories and areas with each allied attack, if there was a toll as your satire, these bodies would be scattered all over, as well as easily found due to the lack of man-power.
However, Russia had a complete opposite of a situation and was not boxed in from all sides at all, put that to thought.
>>36431894 So you believe that the largest cause of death in Russia during the 40s/50s was Communism? You seriously believe they could actually kill off millions of their citizens in a time when their country was in grave danger? How fucking disturbed are you?
>Won't read Marx or Engels because "muh cultural Marxism" Even if you're not a leftie everyone should read Capital because it's one of the most informative insights into political economy ever written.
>>36431946 >You seriously believe they could actually kill off millions of their citizens in a time when their country was in grave danger? It's not whether or not they could, it's a fact that they did. Get fukt commieboo. :^)
>>36431853 >lmao, how many children can you have in china?
What the fuck is up with you burger people?
>OH NO HE'S TALKING FACTS ABOUT CHINA >BETTER JUMP TO DEFEND OUR GUBBERMINT BECAUSE THAT'S CRITICISM AGAINST US
Here's some actual facts for you:
The Chinese government has been trying to limit population growth because with such a large population it would grow unsustainably. They tried to do this by limiting the amount of children that the population can have, and it came back biting them in the arse. The reason is that younger generations are still expected to provide for their retired parents, as well as their own children, from their own income. This makes personal finances a hassle when there used to be none, because parents had more children than one. There are no problems as of yet with a stagnating population, because there are enough children in the newer generations that can have more than one child when China finally decides to abandon their policy. It is not a permanent solution, and it was never a good one.
Defending China against false western accusations is not the same thing as attacking the USA, nor is it the same thing as being a complete convinced socialist.
>>36431884 This is how the upper class already think of society bro. The problem is it isn't true, the lower and working classes are as educated as the upper ones if they want to be.
Labourers used to hire boys and girls to read to them as they worked the same way many of us today listen to audio books and such. They were just as intelligent as the upper classes but took a different path.
>>36432136 How can a country that can't even find it's own states on the map know how to take part in a world war? If Japan hadn't turned up leaving giant flaming arrows in the sky for them they wouldn't of known where to attack.
>>36432098 Only a true retard would proudly proclaim such a thing. Besides, USA's about to fall and China/Russia's about to rise. I don't think it won't take long before a Socialist Super state re-emerges. So yeah, prepare to pay for what your ancestors did.
>>36431943 Like hell it was. No real free market and commie blocs?
Retarded communism in 20 years nonsense and sentiments to burying capitalism?
Das kapital was garbage and capitalism worked so well the only thing most people in the 1st world can do now is invent and focus on social problems while typing away on their fagpads. Welcome to the Fate of Empires.
>>36432219 No because USA had nothing to do with both WW except for the "making money" part. They just swooped in at the last second to gain all the fame and write history in their favour.
>>36432237 USSR took over Berlin while the allies were still fighting in the benelux. Hell, Operation Overlord was a failure since there was barely any planning outside the beachhead establishment part and the hedge mazes were extreme restrictions on the momentum of the US army.
You actually didn't do shit in WW1. You literally sat on your end of the world saying "Ehhh, naaaaah". The only thing you did was exactly the same shit as in WW1, supplying incompetent troops to the front lines in the finishing months of the war.
As for WW2, you actually did contribute, but you did not contribute much in terms of warfare. You kept the UK alive by producing about one liberty cargo ship a day, building ships faster than the German u-boats could sink them. You also provided the UK 40 outdated destroyer vessels in exchange for military bases.
The war was already won by the time you landed in Europe. At least you fought Japan though.
>>36432308 >No because USA had nothing to do with both WW except for the "making money" part.
>“ In a few words: there is no such thing as Soviet technology. Almost all — perhaps 90-95 percent — came directly or indirectly from the United States and its allies. In effect the United States and the NATO countries have built the Soviet Union. Its industrial and its military capabilities. This massive construction job has taken 50 years. Since the Revolution in 1917. It has been carried out through trade and the sale of plants, equipment and technical assistance. ”
Well fuck, capitalism worked so well they thought communism could work. Thanks, Henry Ford.
The weakness of the American position was that, relying on the Soviet Union to do all the fighting, it would be difficult to deny them a share in the spoils.
Roosevelt explained to his son that letting the Russians do all the work, America still had to snatch the victory:
" Just figure it’s a football game. Say we’re the reserves sitting on the bench. At the moment the Russians are the first team, together with the Chinese and to a lesser extent, the British. Before the game is so advanced that our blockers are tired, we’ve got to be able to get in there for the touchdown. "
Source: Roosevelt to his son Elliot, in his book As He Saw It, quoted by V Berezhkov, At Stalin’s Side, 1994, Birch Lane Press, Secausus, New Jersey, p. 245
>>36432384 Even more proof leftists/communists are complete edgelords, you do not ever see dead communists in National Socialist threads, the only dead bodies you see are wehrmacht soldiers being spammed by your latter.
>>36432460 >What is lend lease I do not like the US at all But still.
>>36432526 Pretty much this, as Hitler said himself.
>>36432649 oh boy here we go >Communism only failed because of outside intervention, just like the other hundred times it failed >All other nations on Earth has to be communist aswell in order for the entire system to work >y-you gotta believe me
>>36432614 how many of those 54,000 t-34s were destroyed
>>36432636 If you think that Socialism isn't "good" then you simply have no idea what happened the last century. If it was so shit then it wouldn't have been a beacon of hope for half of the world for a god damned century. If it was so shit then Russia and China would've still been utter shitholes. If you seriously believe Socialism doesn't work you're too far to be saved and the only cure for you is a bullet in the back of the head.
>>36432697 Egypt, Roman Empire, British Empire, Dutch Empire....Could go on for hours m8
>>36432716 Ahahahahahaha you're so fucking mad it's hilarious. Can't handle the truth? Did somebody finally tell you something not in your comfort zone? You sound like a fucking pussy and if i knew you in real life i'd have laughed at you so hard.
>>36432416 Actually to be fair america probably won the war by virtue of feeding the soviet war machine. Ther germans would have run them back to vladivostok if the americans didnt keep up the shipments.
>>36430744 there were at least 100 million murders by communists in the 20ths century. Probably closer to 130 million. Read the "Black book of communism" (not sure how its called in english, a french guy wrote it)
But Communism is far worse. Capitalism has driven all post-Inustrial Revolution growth in human knowledge, technology and social complexity. And jointly, America and Britain have dominated Capitalism until just a couple years ago when China overtook the United States.
Regardless of whether or not we reclaim control over the machine we are most responsible for the construction of in the first place, in the end the real blame for continued success or ultimate failure of Capitalism will actually fall with China.
And of course the irony there is too obvious to require explaining further, isn't it?
>>36432711 >how many of those 54,000 t-34s were destroyed
Probably thousands. I don't have clear statistics of that. It served in the most violent and destructive front of WW2, so it really wouldn't surprise me that it was destroyed by the thousands, much like German tanks.
>>36432834 oh god your patriotism is admirable but russia would have gotten wrecked. Its only purpose was to replace the regional european power structure with a shittier one that would be easier to beat.
I think the American supplies to the USSR just speeded up the process. The eastern front had already stalled to a standstill and getting pushed back towards Germany by the time American supplies was being transported to the USSR.
liberal democracy is a nice thought, but it just doesn't work as proven by the reign of terror and Napoleon. Or slavery and the genocide of Native Americans. Or colonialism and the devastation of the global south. Or Hitler and Mussolini. Or the countless other heinous events and monstrous dictators which they're willing to ignore or excuse when appraising the economic system whose institutions taught them everything they know.
I admit you are correct, but it is interesting that what you point out about EU has most directly taken the form of economic policty, no? The Euro is choking the economic lifeblood out of all members, which ironically contributes to stabilizing an otherwise crashing American Dollar. This is turn reveals the true reason why Britian has tolerated the vast devaluation of the Pound and still not gotten into bed with the EU economically.
In otherwords, i appreciate your compliment but what you pointed out, in my mind at least, is almost purely an economic issue anyway. You seem to already know the relevant basics.
>>36432970 Ideology is stupid. Its literally just a way for people to control you. Studying it historically is cool but actually ascribing a certain ideology and proclaiming it to be ¨superior¨ to another is pathetic.
>>36433130 Yeah because the Russian Empire was kind of exactly that but for centuries. Post-ww1 germans were huge pussies afraid for everything. Only during WW2 some capable people stood up who were promptly killed on Hitler's orders.
People abuse capitalism just like they abuse marxism, nothing wrong with capitalism as long as you don't let people become filthy rich. I would feel free even though I had in my mind that if I become a millionaire I'd have to give 80-90% of my salary away. I just don't like giving it to a centralized government.
>>36433182 Support whatever group you work with to put food on your table, sure, but please stop the ridiculous ¨my god would totally beat up your god¨ style political arguments. different systems work for different geopolitical situations.
>>36433233 Of course it is. so is communism. so is american freedom and democracy its no different than fucking islam or tribal paganism but you people fall for it just the same, sometimes in the same breath as you make fun of the ideologies your ancestors followed just as blindly as you
>>36433175 Your posts are pretty much unreadable and seem to be talking about points out of the thin air.
Goddammit you communist, if you are going to make a debate at least bring your talking point into where people can see it.
>>36433291 >Different systems work for different geopolitical situations. But in technicality, National Socialism seems to have not ever proven the faults of it, or at least to what has been found out or studied about it.
>>36433127 I-I am honestly a little confused, I was referring to technological advancement and not economical advancement.
>>36433368 National socialism was used by the nazis because the territories they would need to become a superpower were overflowing with german people. Thats it. It would be a disaster in any other circumstance.
>>36433128 Ideology is the new religion, it's to keep people divided and not think about seperate issues. You join the herd instead of thinking for yourself. There's benefits about capitalism, socialism, anarchism and even authorianism. You sit around a table and discuss what's best for all of us instead of joining the masses.
It is good that you study these things, but Anon.... ideologies are not where the truth is at. All ideologies are for is to condition the minds of the masses to think more alike so that they project less collective resistance to the ruling elites which utilize their economic output to enrich themselves at the expense of those who believe ideologies.
If you already know this, which you should if your ideology were the "right one"... then why would you not care about it. After all, the importance of this truth is that even a "right" ideology still enslaves you.
>>36433844 Jews are not a race but a ethno-religion. No, they really are not, tell me any actual similarities between them both socially and economically.
>>36433813 Jesus fucking christ you sound like Alex Jones. "Still Enslaves You" That is why I am a homosexual as well as furry, believing in a political alignment does not mean you are a robot inept of thought.
I am a individual, no one represents me as I do not represent them.
>>36433939 You do know that the internet is a perfect example of modern socialism, right? Bill Gates didn't even want it. It's a way for the people to freely access all forms of media and information and the "capitalist best" version would be one where net neutrality was removed. Furthermore, now that the people can send instant messages to each other for free it won't take long for the general conscience to realize that capitalism doesn't work and communism actually might.
It is an extremely uncalled-for insult to accuse me of beiing anything at all like Alex Jones, lol.
I wish i could say i resent it but i happen to have spent so much time attacking that guy and his followers that you really not knowing just makes it kinda funny.
It's called a figure of speech. It means that whether or not you are aware that your perceptions are restricted by a mental filter that you let other people to construct for you, your feelings on the matter will not magically make more knowledge or choices available to you.
Remember that you were born with free will Anon.
I merely rememind you, and you say that I sound like Alex Jones.
>>36431053 I'll explain it to you in a very simple way to try and eliminate any indoctrination and emotional instability you seem to be suffering from.
All the deaths you highlight are due to Imperialism of the state. The communist system and the imperialist system are both established to dominate and control resources, property and the populace through violence.
Market capitalism is simply the exchange of property by two individuals with a mutually beneficial outcome. It's peaceful and non-compulsory. It's a self-organizing system that allows innovators to fill gaps and shortages in what people are trading, which in turn generates technological growth and improves the material standard of living of everyone.
Government should be there to make sure that nobody is taking unfair advantage of anyone, and that nobody is abusing common property such as environment and infrastructure.
It should also be there to organize a defense of the populace from imperialist bastards like the US or the commies.
Sadly, you've conflated the basic underlying economic system of every single society including Communism with an extremely violent tendency for any form of State being completely corrupt by the nature of it having any power over the individual.
The ONLY governments that should be permitted in society are local ones that you as an individual participate in. (Voting is not participation. Voting is letting someone else take your individual power and decide for you how to participate.)
>>36434317 Not baiting anyone, I seriously have a thing for gay niggas who would like to please their superior white master. There are actually a lot of them just like there are a lot more bottoms than tops in gaysville.
>>36434640 Fuck you man, people are repulsive in general. You think you are better than me because my dick has been up several black men's asses, go fuck yourself. Posting with a gay flag as well what a joke.
Just because the capitalist system is abused doesn't mean that we need another system, because the new system will be abused, and then we will "need" another one, and repeat. You could argue that eventually we will find a system that "can't be abused," and don't get me wrong, trial and error is fine. But how about we just cut to the chase and address the abuses? Wouldn't the abusers find a way in every system?
Go away, troll. Stop posting to me. Ignore me. Leave me alone. I will not reveal personal information to you. I will not meet you anywhere whether in public or not. I will not consider having any kind of sex with you even if you offer to merely please me.
Jesus christ, you're like a little stalker or something.
>>36431834 So you're saying that the plausibility of the Soviet Union being able to kill 100000000 million people proves the fact that they did?
No, you're selectively picking your facts, both sides had the capabilities to kill people en masse, Russia has a huge backyard and Germany has acres upon acres of remote uninhabited territory, you're just picking the facts to suit your side rather than looking at things objectively
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