So are there any leftists here or is this one big right

There are, but they're all idiots. You're going to find that everywhere, though.

>>34508774

right wing lol

>>34508821
So no leftists, just liberal turds reacting against right wingers?

>>34508774

There's a few communists and anarchists that aren't right wing anarchists (ancaps).

Me I'm a centrist, probably about as left as you can lean before being bat shit crazy.

>>34508774
It is physically impossible for /pol/ to be an echo chamber.

There are no upvotes.

There are no downvotes.

There are no accounts to follow.

There is no tags to skim.

There is little to no moderation.

There is only argument and counter-argument. Pure and simple reasoning.

If leftist sentiment can't survive in an environment such as this. Maybe there is a reason, no?

You're aware that Zizek plagiarized one of our own right?

There's a bunch of socialists they're just also nationalists.

Generally speaking, it's always seemed to me that most people on the left are reactionary by nature and don't really make use of facts or reality.

But that isn't the case with everyone. There are some pretty intelligent leftists around, though it does seem like they are not here most of the time.

>>34508774
I'm not a leftist but I like Zizek. Anyone who genuinely pisses off his leftist comrades is a good man.

>>34508774
Can you explain to me what it means to be an intelligent leftist? The leftists I've met all seem to be retarded.

>>34508774
i'm economically very left wing but not very socially liberal

hate feminism, faggots parading around and think social liberalism has destroyed social relations and family values

mind you i think that's because i don't get any pussy and like to blame it on how society is structured in my country

>>34508774
There are too many National Socialists here to call /pol/ a right wing echo chamber

>>34509034
pretty much. all the spooky right wing nazi try hards are NEETs too.

They got triggered when we presented facts to them and they retreated back to reddit.

Every website except this one and pretty much this board specifically is a big left wing echo chamber. Why would they be here?

>>34508774
yeah everytime your little reddit buddies show up trying to start an argument they get thoroughly fucked in the ass. when it comes down to facts and logic without the "muhfeelings" bullshit then you people generally have no ground to stand on.

>>34509333
I'm a spooky nazi and I'm not NEET
I do hide me nazidom outside of my closest group of friends, though. I'm a wigger IRL

>>34509309
There's a lot more academic left wing literature than right wing

Read some frankfurt school, chomsky, even marx

There's a lot more intellectual discussion on left wing politics than there is on the right

>>34508774
sometimes you have to think outside of traditional paradigms

>>34508774
>Natsocs
>right wing

0/10

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>>34509514
>Frankfurt School
I've been meaning to read them just to better understand commie faggotry, but it upsets me that such people are so popular

>>34509627
It's just a critique of capitalism, they don't really advocate any solutions or anything

Read it with an open mind and take in the possibility that the free market is flawed for reasons x and y.

I really recommend Adorno's dialectic of enlightenment. It's a great criticism of both sides of the political spectrum in my opinion

Yes, but I do not trust blacks and muslims.

Pro Gay rights
Pro Womens rights
Want health care reform
Want a change in foreign policy
Want money out of politics

>>34509514
So it simply means you have more circlejerkely discussions? You didn't really answer my question. What forms the foundation of your beliefs?

>>34509783
>health care reform
means
>government controlled healthcare

Look how well it's working everywhere else. FUCK you.

>>34509783
I see we are on the same page.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR793y5JNRw

Present mainstream leftism has abandoned the working class.

>>34509783
>money out of politics
>healthcare reform

You liberals/leftist/whatever the fuck you want to call yourself, you are all fucking retarded.

>>34509333
>my enemies are fat, stupid and lazy!

You lefties really wonder why people think you're all irrational.

>>34509141
You've actually red pilled me a bit with that comment.

According to poll after poll, the most commonly accepted ideology is libertarianism, which is neither left nor right.

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Yes.

Hitlerists can fuck off.

>>34508774
>could start a thread for fellow commies
>passive aggressive assertion to engage non-commies
stop being retarded op

>>34509818
That the status quo has social, political and economic issues and we should constantly be moving to improve society in any way possible. Being stuck in the frame of mind that what we have currently is 100% correct does not open the road to an improvement in society and in fact could be dangerous.

This also does not mean that any solutions to the criticisms pointed out by left wing academics in regards to our system may be right either, it just means that we should all be educated, have an open mind and realise that things could be improved socially

>>34510056
>libertarianism is neither left or right

ayyy lmao

It's the most extreme form of economically liberal and socially liberal beliefs. Libertarianism is extremely right economically

>>34509485

you sound confused

>>34508774
I love Zizek and am a NatSoc who may turn communist, but only in a society without LGBT people, but specifically T; what modern SJWs advocate is the greatest threat to the social order today.

>>34510244
>left x right dichotomy
>good for anything except political parties

>>34510244
You can't pin it on that useless left-right paradigm because it's modeled on principles that exist outside of it. Liberals always accuse it of being far right because of its economic tenants, while conservatives accuse it of being far left because of its social tenants.

In reality, it's both and neither.

>>34509851
>muh evil corporations making money off the sick and injured.

Seriously how can you be white pride and let your brothers and sisters fall into debt and be denied services. You sound like a selfish jew.

>>34509896
Germany will lead the way once again. I can feel it coming.

>>34510244

American libertarianism, sure, but libertarian in Europe originally meant left libertarian (socialist libertarianism).

>>34510315
I agree, I believe in economic regulation and am extremely against laissez-faire capitalism

But I fucking hate fags and the collapse of certain aspects of social conservatism

>>34509141

No, it's because the number of Nazis/White Supremacists far outnumber the number of leftists on this board, since this is the only place on the internet where they can post their views and not get immediately banned.

>>34510149
The point was to get right wingers to engage leftists. I think their experience with leftists is limited to the idiots on tumblr which is akin to judging right wingers by Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones, so hopefully they'll gain some exposure to leftists, maybe read some Marx and get a grip on the ideology.

>>34510467
>this is the only place on the internet where they can post their views and not get immediately banned.

and?

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>>34508774
Plenty of National Socialists, Libertarians, Communists, and neo-Cons here, what brand of libshit are you?

>>34510315
>without LGBT people

Why do you hate freedom?

>>34510424
Originally libertarianism was a word used by left anarchists.

Today in Europe it's folks like UKIP who call themselves libertarian.

>>34508774

4chan has always been about fucking with people in the most offensive ways possible

/pol/ isn't rightwing, it is a collection of offensive ideologies

it is pretty hard to make american liberalism into something "politically incorrect" hence its absence from this board

>>34510424
In New Zealand our libertarian party is modelled after the Americans, but the only people who really support it are rich people who want a completely deregulated economy

>>34510405
If libertarianism gets to exist outside of the left-right paradigm then so does communism, anarchism and most other isms.

It doesn't change the fact that libertarianism embraces the free market wholeheartedly and thinks it is the solution to all problems. To me, that is extremely economically right

>>34510560
Because their rights end where his feelings begin.

>>34509141
>There are no upvotes.
>There are no downvotes.
>What is the front page

>>34509514
I have to interject a small some here. I think it would be an uneducated assumption to say that right-wing political thinkers don't speak as much as left-wing. A few examples are: Mark R Levin, F. A. Hayek, Milton Freedom, and Thomas Sowell. I could also say books like Liberty and Tyranny, The Road to Serfdom, Throw Them Out, (and on the verge of nut job) Stop the Coming Civil War. I would say that it's easier to access a certain political sides politic depending on location around the US, upbringing, and radio/internet talking heads/news groups a person listens too.

>>34508774
i agree with most left points, but not with tumblirsm, gun control, anti white racism and shit a like

>>34510616
>he thinks a post is an upvote
>he thinks a sage is a downvote

back to plebbit

>>34509329
>mind you i think that's because i don't get any pussy and like to blame it on how society is structured in my country

This brings up an interesting point.

Do you guys think there's a correlation between holding rather extreme political beliefs and a lack of pussy?

>>34509278
Tell me, how is Slavoj Zizek not a complete charlatan? Do you know something I don't?
I've watched talk after talk that he's given and while I like his personality and speaking voice there doesn't seem to be a lot of actual content. Do I have to read his books? Where is the real information?

>>34509783

>implying faggots dont have rights
>implying women dont have rights

>>34509141
>It is physically impossible for /pol/ to be an echo chamber.

You are 100% wrong.

Instead of upvotes /pol/ operates on bumps but are functionally similar.

Threads that are too challenging, too boring, or that contradict the echo chamber are ignored and sink to page 10 quickly.

The only threads that contradict the echo chamber and survive are the blatant troll threads. For a non-racist, non-fascist to get replies here they have to purposefully antagonize people into replying or dumb down their points to such a degree that /pol/ will reply in order to mock them.

/pol/'s bump based system rewards antagonism, maintaining the status quo, entertainment and simple OPs. it isn't an upvote system but it might as well be.

>>34508774
Hey OP. I'm sympathetic to Zizek & Badiou. What you wanna know?

>>34510679
DON"T LET THEM SLIDE THIS!! UPBOAT UPBOAT UPBOAT

>>34510616
fuck off back to reddit, the front page is irrelevant when there is a catalog

>>34508774
>Translation: I wish /pol/ was a leftist echo chamber... ;_;

>>34510541
Obviously it's dysfunctional for a website to contain so many dissenting opinions.

Someone could see something that offends them!

>>34508774

Fuck off commie! You ain't in a friendly neighborhood

>>34510605
Don't communists call themselves leftists?

Libertarianism being centered around an entirely free market is oversimplifying it. FreeER markets are the logical conclusion of a lot of libertarianism's tenants, but libertarians are more concerned with individual liberty and non-coercion.

"Regulation" has proven to not work because of a conflict of interest. Most libertarians I've met agree that it would be more logical to attack the problem at the source; the government that grants so many benefits and bailouts in the first place to the corporations. It's a one size fits all solution.

I enjoy the left-wing critiques of society and media. I even like a lot of the SJW-ish analysis. When they say a particular piece of media is intended to play to fantasies of white males or something, I tend to agree. When they say that art is the production of ideology, I tend to agree with that as well. They are the best at analyzing the system from an objective, rational perspective.

The problem I find is that their idea for replacing the status quo is always bad. What law does the leftist propose to replace the law of nature and competition? They are literally trying to abolish nature. When I was a kid this sounded fine. Nature is gross and unfair, etc. Humans are animals though. Humans aren't ruled by rational thought.

I used to think conservatives were the ones who thought humans were something special, created by God to rule over other life forms. Conservatives don't really believe that, though. They just think such a belief is necessary in society so that order will prevail. Liberals are the ones who think humans are exceptional among all life. They think the motivations of human behavior can be deconstructed and re-built as long as the new ideas are "reasonable". In reality, it's like someone who has no idea how a car is built deciding to take it apart and build the same pieces into a better car. You can never do it. You just break the car and end up with a bunch of random junk. I want to be a liberal, it's really nice to believe in progress. I just have a really hard time of it anymore.

Non-leftwing nationalists of /pol/, answer me this.

What are you hoping to achieve?
Okay, so your country is completely free of Jews, gays and non-whites.
What now? How is your race any better off if they're still under the slave-driving capitalist system? And on that note, as long as any kind of capitalist economics are maintained your nation is still going to be run by the elites you're hoping to drive out through the seeds of capitalism that have been planted all over the world.

Why do you identify with nationalism if you don't think worker liberation is important?

>>34508774
I'm left wing one most issues (but not all), for example I hate feminism and I hate people who push for gun control but I also hate the capitalist system, because big business tends to have too much influence over government.
Personally I think we need a system similar to that of Switzerland, which would be a socialist direct democracy.

>>34510773

Yeah and what stops non-racists and non-fascists from bumping up their own threads with fake replies?

>>34511237
The fact that they have a life.

>>34511237
Integrity. Also, you can't bump your own thread anymore until 15 minutes have passed.

>He still thinks of politics in Euclidian terms

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I like to think that I'm fairly liberal.
>America's welfare as it is now is acceptable. Drug tests to receive it are more than appropriate though. Some people could do with a bit more, and some people could do with a bit less, but no one's starving from it.
>Gays should marry, but schools don't have the right to tell someone of a particular religion what they should or should not think is wrong. There is logically no difference between telling someone that they're wrong for drinking and telling someone that they're wrong for being gay.
>Schools should be completely open to any non-violent religious expression(or lack thereof), and should avoid having anything to do with teaching the students their morals or trying to influence their ambitions.
>Judging applicants based on their race for important positions and competitive school seats results in a lower quality of results. It doesn't matter if you're White, Indian, Black, or Hispanic. If you're the best person for the job, you deserve it.

However, most of my friends seem to think that these things make me a neo-nazi with homophobic tendencies. I don't have the heart to tell them that I'm not particularly religious.

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>>34508774
>>34509597
Dont forget to mention the ongoing Rick Perry scandal.

Mr. Perry is facing a felony indictment stemming from his efforts to force the resignation of the Travis County district attorney, Rosemary Lehmberg, after she was arrested on a charge of drunken driving in April. Mr. Perry is charged with threatening to veto funding to the district attorney’s public integrity unit unless she quit, a threat that he ultimately carried out. The veto blocked $7.5 million in state funds for the unit.

Texas faggit republikids btfo? You decide.

>>34510773
>not using the catalog
shiggy

>>34511105
Don't hurt their brains. They don't like to admit they are capitalist shills.

>>34511003
Libertarianism is a very american ideology and I'll hand it to you that your government is fucking retarded with bailouts to corporations, but that's actually a symptom of a belief in the free market in the first place. Complete financial deregulation leads to dodgy decisions on a grand scale and to economic bubbles.

If those banks and corporations were to have failed without government intervention, the entire economic system and the world would be fucked (which in my opinion is inevitable, but that's for a different discussion). It's hard to speculate about what would happen at the end of a catastrophic economic depression, but I don't think the immediate outcomes would be very good. There would probably even be a blacklash against capitalism and the free market which are required for you to continue your libertarian beliefs

/pol/ is just a right wing nutjob shithole

Nothing to see here OP . Too much bluepill on this board, this place can't be saved .

>>34510773
The fuck, we have 200+ reply Communist, Anarchist, Marxist threads every week.

>>34511033
I think everyone here on /pol/ would love to be liberal, no one wants to be seen as a "Nazi who wants to exterminate 6 gorillion Jews", but anyone with an ounce of logic and rational thought just cannot bring themselves to do it. Once youve swallowed the red pill theres just no going back.

>>34511394
The only reason the banks got so big in the first place is because the government (and by extension, taxpayers) were their personal safety blanket. There is no conceivable way that those banks would have ever gotten that large without the government's assistance, and even if they did, they would still be accountable to their customers, who can voluntarily choose not to do business with said bank.

>>34511105
I'm leftwing but to me national socialism is inherently socialistic economically, and while there would be an element of capitalist slave-driving it would not be anywhere as bad as modern neo-liberal societies

>>34508774
We only get edgelord leftist types around here. I suspect trolling most of the time, but it does seem there are some genuine commie retards who were born about 50 years too late.

We are here.
It is just that like moderets on this board, we are drowned out by the screeching of the far right and trolling on all sides.

I mostly lurk and give info on democratic working environments, and talk about civil liberty and counter surveillance (because who better to defend your freedom and privacy then you).

>>34511394
so how do you explain the SEC pushing derivatives and our legislature passing a law in 2005 that gives derivatives specific privileges in bankruptcy that cost the banks that failed billions (trillions)

Don't worry, I don't expect an answer because I know you can't give one.

>>34508774

'leftist' seems like a bit of an overstatement. this implies that I am a die-hard communist or socialist. I'm actually quite capitalistic. Consider myself like Bill Gates, a left-leaning capitalist who understands the proper role of government and the proper roll of free-market capitalism.

>>34511291
>>34511288
These are both excuses

>>34508774
Are National Socialists leftists?

>>34508774
I'm same guy as >>34510801
Since you lefty here's some advice.The only real enemies you have on /pol/ are the Stormfags & European fascist FIS assets. They're the only honest-to-God fascists. Nearly everyone else is in on a sick joke, so you better get a sense of humor.

>>34511299
Hello unpaid Wendy Davis shill or paid DNC shill (not sure which)

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>>34508774
>Nazism
>right-wing

>>34511291

People who share the same beliefs as Tumblr have integrity? I don't think so.

>>34511105
I would fully support a Nationalist leaning Communist government. Unfortunately every time I bring up the subject all I get is

>HURR NATIONALISM AND COMMUNISM ARE LITERALLY INCOMPATABLE.

With no deeper discussion on the subject being allowed by other Communists. All this, despite the fact that Stalin basically ran the USSR similiar to such a model, and it was pretty much one of the most successful Communist regimes in history.

>>34511580
No.

>>34511288
Confirmed for 16 years old
>>34511291
Not sure you can prove a negative by appealing to the "good nature" of a group. Also you shouldn't be able to bump your thread at all, it usually moves it lower on the page list.

>>34510773
>Threads that are too challenging, too boring, or that contradict the echo chamber are ignored and sink to page 10 quickly.
Bullshit. Highly argumentative threads are the ONLY ones that stay on the first page.

Have you been here for a week? This place is not even close to being an echo chamber. Every single thread is riddled with arguments, personal attacks, toxic aggression etc.

Where my Liberal Bros at ?

We are fighting the good fight against the Right wing filth contaminating this board

>>34509330
I have no idea what to say to a comment that stupid.

You do realize that National Socialist (aka, nazis) are on the extreme right?

>>34511662
Why not?

>>34511710
Your type has been trying to do exactly that since /new/. Unfortunately no matter how many insults you throw around it isnt going to change anything.

I'm pretty left-wing. I don't consider myself SJW because I'm not obnoxious, but I am pretty much completely left wing. I come here because every once in a while I find arguments that make me question my beliefs, but not really enough to change my mind, at least not yet.

I think the fundamental problem /pol/ has is that everyone here seems obsessed with identity politics, which is weird considering this is the internet and an anonymous image board. Why the fuck is identity topic number 1?

>>34508774
Sure thing. I am a radical leftist, but it is pointless t o post on this shit board. If you want any real discussion of anything, it is best to look someplace else. That said, I do find this board quite funny, in a Fox News sort of way.

>>34511662
>>34511794
National Socialism cannot be put in the left- right scale without having these discussion.
They have both things from left and right.

>>34511631
Check out some of Zizek's stuff, he's a critique of liberalism's recent obsession with multiculturalism. He's not a libertarian though by any means.

>>34511580
On race relations and peace they weren't.They considered themselves to be a third position between capitalists and communists

>>34509268
there is a reason that they aren't here
this board is composed entirely of idiots

>>34511846
It's not. Ideology is important, because ideology is a fast, simple way to describe a cluster of belief systems.

>>34511710
Way to trip on your own shoelaces tard. Only way you're gonna last is if you give up that idealism and get your hands dirty

>>34511533
>>34511507
Yeah you guys are right in respect to the last bubble and your governments intervention to be safety nets

But not every bubble is caused by government intervention. The government safety net that caused the 2008 recession has it's root in the dotcom bubble and the asian financial crisis

>>34511946
Lose another argument today, marx?

>>34511899
Except for nationalism, which I'd characterize as leftist, all the same "things from right" are to find in communism.

>>34511959
And yet most most threads involve some kind of pride, shaming, or blaming a demographic for the problems in the world.
I agree ideology is useful, but analysis is also important. If you're going to discuss current events, it's not a good idea to make everything about ideology.

>>34508774
Plenty. But, just like in real life, their arguments get defeated, and they either leave after a period of frustration, or come to understand the truth.

>>34511946

This .

This board is filled with dumbass reactionary dupes

>>34511946
:^)

>>34508774

libertarian communist reporting in.

dumber people speak louder, this trend continues into the digital realm as well.

>>34511918
Neither am I.

I sympathize with the state and a planned economy, and I hate the corporate oligarchy that has ruined this country (who also, ironically, are the biggest supporters of multiculturalism and immigration). I just dont understand why with Communists its either fully open-borders or absolutely nothing at all. Whats wrong with a homogenous Communist state that supports the traditional family unit ?

I will check out his work though. Thanks for the reccomendation.

>>34512035
A non-government created bubble is a different story because people have the voluntary choice whether or not to get caught up in said bubble.

The 2008 housing bubble was, plain and simple, caused by two government subsidized organizations giving ludicrous loans to people who could never afford to pay them off, for reasons that essential amount to MUH FEELS. This is a different story because the bubble was formed entirely with taxpayer money, in a manner that was NOT voluntary.

>>34512088
Pretty much this. Funny how the main criticism in this thread by leftists against /pol/ is that we are all supposedly idiots, but if they are losing arguments on a daily basis what does that make them?

>>34512193

The housing bubble was entirely created by the banks and the fuckers at walls street you fucktard

> muh Freddy and fanny

Faux news watched pls go

>>34512134
You mean like liberal SJWs and their victim complex?

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>>34512134
>libertarian communist reporting in
>libertarian
>communist
Are you just desperate for pussy trying to appeal for both groups of women or just a fucking idiot

>>34511291
>lso, you can't bump your own thread anymore until 15 minutes have passed
Since when?
Is that just this board or is that everywhere?

>>34512236

> being drowned out by but of right wing mindless rabbling retards
> losing arguments

Pick one

I think everyones problem here is that everyone has their own definition of what right and left wing economically are.

My definition of left wing is state controlled industries, regulation of the market and as a result of this, greater government income which is spent on social issues and national interests

Right wing economics to me is the belief that the market should not be regulated, that wealth should be in the hands of individuals which would eventually trickle down to poorer people (thus no need for social spending) and that no (or very little) industry or company should be in the hands of government.

To me, national socialism is a lot more economically left according to my definitions. A completely free market doesn't really have any notions of nationalism

>>34510616
But the thing is, you bump the thread even if your response is solely the word "faggot." For instance, I just bumped this thread in responding to you even though you're full of dog shit.

>>34512272
Ya, I'm gonna need a source on that statement. What you said pretty much amounts to

>UH, UM, THE EVIL WALL STREET PEOPLE, UM, THEY GOT TOGETHER AND, UM, MADE THE HOUSING BUBBLE.

I do not watch Fox News, and the government subsidized housing loans are the commonly accepted reason why the bubble took place. After all, it is called the HOUSING bubble. I fail to see how banks play a part in this outside of being the medium in between the home buyers and their subsidized loans.

>>34512350
See there you go again, just calling an entire board stupid for no reason. The reason you lot lose here is that you seldom produce any real evidence of your own to support your argument, or fail to refute the massive amounts of evidence given against you. All the while doing little more than insulting everyone who disagrees with you. Theres a reason why /pol/ ideology is spreading across all the other boards on 4chan, the lurkers have seen enough.

>>34512350
Okay.

>losing arguments
What do I win Alec?

The problem with leftists is that they are not satisfied with sharing a space with other people, they must either completely control a space and shut-down the opposition, or they will complain about being excluded themselves.

There are a sizable minority of leftists on /pol/, but since they don't control the board (yet), they don't count as existing from the left-wing point of view.

>>34512308
>being this stupid
What's anarcho-communism?

>B-but muh soviet dictatorship
Well, you can only vote 2 political groups.
American democracy is just like Soviet democracy.

Soviet communism != Libertarian Communism

Go be a faggy 12 year old democrat somewhere else

>>34512236
You're both idiots for creating enemies that could potentially be your allies.

>>34510773
>Threads that are too challenging, too boring, or that contradict the echo chamber are ignored and sink to page 10 quickly.
>too challenging
>for /pol/

HAHAHAHA

If by challenging you mean all those peso rights threads, we don't want that shit on our comps plain and simple.

>too boring

Well, duh.

>contradict the echo chamber.

Ya lost me here bro. Maybe you mean if I've already debated 3 different communists and 2 different pro-Israel anons, 2 muslims, a satanist, an atheist, a Catholic, a Muslim, a genetic denier,an AnCap, and a MSM only "opinionated" anon in one day, I don't feel like doing it again for the Fifteenth time - So I pass over the fat acceptance thread. If that's what you mean then yeah. This place is a constant swirl of debate and disagreement - the opposite of an echo chamber.

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Let's be honest here, 90% of Nazis, Libertarians, Reactionaries and etc on /pol/ are actually leftist on real life. It's just that being a leftist on the internet, where everyone is a leftist already, it's no fun, so i roleplay as a Traditionalist conservative instead.

>>34508774
Your definition of left wing and right wing politics is innately flawed.
Same goes for the naziboos.
And the libertard fags.
No one can win here.

>>34512647
Even though you called me an idiot I actually agree with you, I still respect full blown SJW's for having an interest in the well being of others and a desire to better the world. And you're right, an inclusionary ideology is always better than an exclusionary one.

>>34512477

> embracing a /pol/ hivemind to take over 4chan
> hypocritically criticize reddit for being an hugbox

Hey pot meet kettle

>>34510467
SO what stops leftists from coming here?
You made a pointless and unnecessary statement, and it nearly confirms that anon's point.

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>>34512134

>>34511033
Good post..
I posted this
>>34510156

I think we have pretty similar points of view but I find it really hard to still embrace either socially conservative or socially liberal ideas. I know I don't really believe in capitalism and think it's flawed as shit but in terms of certain social issues I'm not really that sure.

>>34512665
>Ya lost me here bro. Maybe you mean if I've already debated 3 different communists and 2 different pro-Israel anons, 2 muslims, a satanist, an atheist, a Catholic, a Muslim, a genetic denier,an AnCap, and a MSM only "opinionated" anon in one day, I don't feel like doing it again for the Fifteenth time - So I pass over the fat acceptance thread. If that's what you mean then yeah. This place is a constant swirl of debate and disagreement - the opposite of an echo chamber.

Exactly this.

>>34512747
Nice shifting of the goalposts, but we dont have a hivemind here on /pol/. The only commonality is that typical leftists lose every key argument they make here.

>>34512700
/pol/ may be more extreme on /pol/ where it's safe to vent, but I don't think we're like those weird neo-nazi Jews

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Reporting in

>>34512586
>using generalizations to classify every single leftist as a certain type of person

fuck off m8, life isn't that simple, you can't just come in here with swooping generalizations about people who hold a certain belief

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>>34512592
>What's anarcho-communism?
>Implying it isn't just as stupid if not worse than libertarian-communism

>American democracy is just like Soviet democracy.
>Soviets
>Actually letting individuals vote
We have this thing called 3rd party choices like the Green party or someone who isn't affiliated with anyone.

>Go be a faggy 12 year old democrat somewhere else
>Implying I am Democrat
Go Jew someone else you fucking dipshit

>>34510560
If you create a new state, then there would not be a deprivation of rights because by that time eugenical policies would eradicate the conditions - anyone who first moves there does so voluntary

>>34512875

But we don't lose arguments here , we just drowned out by the mouth breathing right wing majority retards that have swarmed the board and shill the hardest on here

>>34510727
Watch his 'Pervert's Guide to Ideology' (2013) and read 'Sublime Object of Ideology'. This is where he outlays an essential part of his methodology.

>implying the right side of the spectrum is the wrong way. Being redpilled means you choose the right patch dumbass

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>>34509141
>There is only argument and counter-argument. Pure and simple reasoning.
>argument and counter-argument
>Pure and simple reasoning

>>34510727
I like listening to his talks as background noise but I'm not entirely sure how anyone could like his speaking voice, but you're pretty much right. I've read around 10 or 12 of his books and even the ones that are supposed to be deep tomes of Hegelian philosophy or calls to unite the left under the dialectical materialism banner... quite literally all of it might well have come from a random content generator peppered with the same repertoire of jokes and footnotes he's used in previous books.

>>34512974
not even that, we give arguments and no one cares or replys until a troll who is apparently 'leftist' says something retarded and then everyone goes

>LMAO LOOK AT THESE LEFT WING RETARDS

>>34512974
You already said that, and I already refuted it. Try coming up with a new response that doesn't rely on personal attacks or massive logical fallacies.

>>34512592
>Well, you can only vote 2 political groups.
Blatant bullshit, you've never participated in an American election, or your education has failed you because you are stupid. Not ignorant, but stupid.

>>34513038

This . Constant false flag trolls posting as liberals to make everyone say hey look at this librul

/pol/ is full of leftists

just look at the number of national socialists

>>34509851
It works pretty fantastic for all of the other smart countries.

I just believe in personal freedom and have a responsible distrust of large organizations (because they are more often then not a threat to personal liberty).
It just so happens that actually believing in freedom make me someone on the ultra far left for some reason.
If people were not such huge hypocrites when it came to liberty the world would be a better place.

>>34510727
>>34513023

Oh also, I'm not sure what the situation with the Zizek/WN plagiarism currently is (like if he has responded yet) but for another Zizek redpill, look at his cringe-inducing douche comments he wrote for the Abercrombie & Fitch mailorder catalog at some point in the 90s -

http://www.critical-theory.com/that-time-zizek-wrote-for-abercrombie-fitch/

I don't know if this was his mission all along, but at least today he seems to mostly be trying to monetize his celebrity status.

>>34513199

This . The free markets have no business running health care

>>34513021
>believing in trickle down economics
>being so unnationalistic you support foreign companies being able to buy out vast areas of land because muh economic freedom
>trusting corporations to give a fuck about the environment or workers rights
>allowing the rich to get unbelievablely rich

>>34513198
I really hope this is bait/troll.

>>34512974
>But we don't lose arguments here
Your acceptance of the fact, and the fact itself are two wholly separate things.

>shill the hardest
Who the fuck pays people to spout traditionalist opinions. I want to know because I want in

>>34513038
Yeah because the exact opposite thing totally never happened literally dozens of times last year during all the gun grabber threads.

>>34512742
Gotta remember. 1. Most people are afraid to get dirty by associating w/ those they find distasteful; 2. divide and conquer works really well - so well, that I've seen legit dumb people pull it off like magic

>>34512974

this right here.

give educated opinion and receive nothing but generic fox news buzzwords as a rebuttal. I mean disagreeing is fine and all, I just wish your opinions were backed in some kind of empirical facts.

>>34510467
actually /pol/ has more lolbertarians then NatSoc, and even if they are the majority so what? If you post sources on any subject and prove it empirically /pol/sters back down.

facts are not a democratic.

>>34513313
I'm talking left wing economics, not what you american fucks call 'liberals'. Social liberal ideas and left wing economics don't always have to go hand in hand

I don't even give a single fuck about gun laws in America because it doesn't concern me

>>34513198
/thread

>Left & Right
>Not part of the same enslaving and decadent system
Lel, no wonder why you use that commie flag when you believe such false dichotomy.

>>34513395

Not to mention majority of the right wing retards on here try to simply generalize all liberal as some super Feminazis Pro lgbt SJW white apologist kind of people .

Also lots and lots of scapegoating liberals for every when issues are a lot more complicated

>>34508774
The left wing is feminine.

>>34513435
This is /pol/, facts are ignored or substituted with whatever opinion or version is most convent to already held beliefs.

>>34511105

>What are you hoping to achieve?

Separate but equal status for everybody, the right of self determination for everyone - even whites.

>Okay, so your country is completely free of Jews, gays and non-whites.

Not free of anything, Jews just don't run our banks and media anymore, promoting degeneracy and destroying capitalism by printing endless fiat currency. Nationalism is no longer a crime, and eventually different groups will be able to have White enclaves, black enclaves, Latino enclaves, Jewish enclaves, Christian enclaves, Marxist communes, like native reserves for all the races and cultures destroyed by corporatism and marxist theory, also Metropolitan cities.

>What now? How is your race any better off if they're still under the slave-driving capitalist system?

My race is fine. I just don't want my children to be ashamed of it and have to hide their pride. Capitalism is also the most productive system ever put into use - ever. I'm guilty of a pinko Canard here, I put put in a Gradualist Georgian system of economics as a hold over for a few generations as we slowly dismantle the institutions of socialism and achieve 'true free markets'. It will take a few years of dismantling the state run Prussian system of schooling, and Jewish control of the media, in order to educate the populace on the benefits of smaller government and more powerful local government, and industry and the privatization of services.

>And on that note, as long as any kind of capitalist economics are maintained your nation is still going to be run by the elites you're hoping to drive out through the seeds of capitalism that have been planted all over the world.

There always was and always will be "elites" and different classes of people, your marxist fantasy does not trump human nature. A gold standard currency would inhibit their power and cause their influence to shrink.

>>34513563
You're only saying that because your biases aren't catered to here.

>>34509141
This guy gets it. Perfectly said.

>>34513520
They generalize because liberals support the very environment where such people end up developing.

In a more authoritarian and brutal society these types of people wouldent even dare speak out against the order provided to them by men who would beat the shit out of them and kill them if they would say otherwise.

>echo chamber

/pol/ is far from a hugbox if you've spent any time here
anyone who says "/pol/ is the worst board" hasn't been here more than a day

>>34511689
this
/pol/ only even gives attention to threads that contradict the official /pol/icy. Case in point this thread.

>>34513648
I only say that because I have seen it happen time and time again no matter what the subject.
Just because I am pointing something out does not mean I am by default biases.
You have no support for your assertions.

>>34511366
>Implying the solution to class struggles isnt in class collaboration

>>34513753

/pol/ is r/politics for right wingers

Simple as that

>>34513563

>This is /pol/, facts are ignored or substituted with whatever opinion or version is most convent to already held beliefs.

The closest I've seen to that is someone holding a 50 year old study on race as being more relevant to a 100 year old one - because it fucking is. Aside from that someone disputing the '1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted' or 'gender wage gap' memes by demonstrating how they fudged the data is not "ignoring facts"

>>34513520
I may be guilty of generalizing from time to time, but when I call someone a libshit I am usually indicating that they are poor examples of actual intelligent liberals that are open to real debate.

More often than not I don't use it when referring to someone on /pol/.

>>34513395
No one on /pol/ watches fox news for information. And the only concepts that stick here are the ones backed up by empirical evidence, the rest is up for heated debate.

Your arguing against an idea that has no basis in reality.

>implying there are any intelligent leftists left

The left has turned into a hardcore SGW muh feels community of degenerate idiots.

I don't know that it can ever recover

>Ex leftist

>>34513818
>You have no support for your assertions.
What a loaded statement. Go search the archives for literally any gun debate threads. If you can still seriously say that facts are ignored here by anybody but the most rabid do gooders then you must be delusional.

>>34513824
Mein bruder. I don't see why commies need to go to war against some tiny minority that happens to be better off than them

>>34513520
>super Feminazis Pro lgbt SJW white apologist kind of people .

Sadly, that's the true state of Liberalism in the Western world. Anything short, and you do you think you could openly be called a liberal while not having die-hard Tumblr beliefs, fuck no.

It's the true-scotsman fallacy with all you "moderate" liberals.

>>34510632
Fuck you Michael Savage should be the patron saint of /pol/ but nobody here will listen. He's Ron Paul with a dose of Hitler. Hates Muslims. Is a race realist. Michael Savage is a god, and hosts the greatest political talk radio of our time.

>>34509141
This post is a fucking joke. The standard of argument here is pathetic with absolutely no citation or true attention to philosophy ever given. We have a fucking philosophy sticky that NOBODY pays attention to.

For example, what is the most common response to someone's argument that we don't agree with? We simply quote them in green text and post a picture of a sly kike. This is not an argument, it is a conscious rejection of argument. Don't pretend any level of intellectual discourse EVER happens here; this is entirely false and it would be a fucking mockery of the truth to state or imply anything to the contrary.

Of course /pol/ is an echo chamber; you don't need accounts, upvotes, or moderation to create a perpetual sycophantic circle-jerk of an environment; all you need is enough propaganda and loud voices shouting down any dissenters with gay kike pics. Then you have created the "echo chamber" wherein everyone agrees and those who do not realize that the vast majority of us are imbecilic children who cannot be convinced of any logic contradictory to the /Pol/ Approved Narrative™.

Don't think so highly of yourself, it is sickening.

>>34513855


See this idiot anon

>>34513939

This Is what I mean when I say retards are just scapegoating liberals with broad generalizations

>>34508774
there are tons of leftests here

we have national socalists
Islamists
Communists

and all sorts of other things the left would say under circumstances of anonymity

>>34510647
>I agree with most left points, except for all of them.

Yes.

>>34513939
There are intelligent leftists on /pol/, but I rarely see them in any other community on the internet. Or maybe they're just drowned out by the majority on sites like Reddit and Tumblr.

Any leftists here have some insight into why this is?

>>34508774
conservative faction of the extreme left wing here, u mad

>>34514041
Where's the sly kike in this thread?

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUTTTTTTTTT

>>34514041

This This this this this this

Right on fucking point

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>>34513836
>/pol/ is r/politics for right wingers
/pol/ has more factions than the GOP.

>>34514103
Most people are stupid, and they are not often punished or called out on their stupidity, so they do not correct themselves.

>>34514041
>Of course /pol/ is an echo chamber; you don't need accounts, upvotes, or moderation to create a perpetual sycophantic circle-jerk of an environment; all you need is enough propaganda and loud voices shouting down any dissenters with gay kike pics. Then you have created the "echo chamber" wherein everyone agrees and those who do not realize that the vast majority of us are imbecilic children who cannot be convinced of any logic contradictory to the /Pol/ Approved Narrative™.
Regardless of if that's true (it's not) that's still not what an echo chamber is. An echo chamber needs to be enforced. You being an uppity nigger and leaving after your feelings were hurt isn't an enforcement. It's you actively deciding you don't want to participate. And since you're still here it's fairly obvious that no one is making you leave.

>>34514103
>>34514132 here
Most of the internet only has the "college liberals" aka SJWs that I wouldn't hit a wet dog in the ass with. They're terrible and disgusting people.

Most of /pol/ confuses "not being a retarded feminist" with "omg so red pill omg" so it seems like there aren't leftists here but I see quite a few of them. There's just no need to say anything about it since there's no identity politics possible on 4chan. Which, again, is why I'm even here, I fucking hate that shit.

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Definitely a progressive. Basically agree with everything this guy says
>attack corporate crime
>enforce consumer protection laws
>condemn Israel and cut military aid

>>34514041
Some people post happy merchant, some people argue, some demonstrate their point. This thread is an example of the fact that /pol/ isnt an echo chamber. Go into any other and you will find just as much argumentation.

>>34514168
Don't worry, I said something negative about /pol/ so I absolutely will receive gay kike pics, unless the stormfront defense force is out for the night.
Are you really implying that discussions that typically take place here reach anywhere near the label of "intellectual?" We have fucking 9/11 troof threads and chemtrail threads for fuck's sake, it is clear the majority of people here are decidedly anti-intellectual.

>>34508774
>Left/Right crap.

You're gonna have to try harder than that while raiding us.

>>34514244
If you'd read my post, I described exactly how the echo chamber is enforced you dumb fucking nigger scum.

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>>34510467
>o, it's because the number of Nazis/White Supremacists far outnumber the number of leftists on this board

Good, let's try out best and keep it that way.

You can start by getting the fuck out, for one.

>>34514396
>I'm so fucking three dimensional bro your left/right paradigm can't contain me
I'm really impressed at what a free spirit you are.

>>34514041
>For example, what is the most common response to someone's argument that we don't agree with? We simply quote them in green text and post a picture of a sly kike.

Proof? Sly Kike is a typical board meme, it's not an argument but something used to piss people off. This is an image board after all, and every board has some kind of mascot that litters its posts.

>Then you have created the "echo chamber" wherein everyone agrees and those who do not realize that the vast majority of us are imbecilic children who cannot be convinced of any logic contradictory to the /Pol/ Approved Narrative™.

Unless it's an Israeli/Palestinian thread, the kike pics only pop-up maybe once or twice. Most threads continue in the same fashion of argument and counter-argument.

It's obvious you barely browse /pol/, and you reek of an oversensitive redditor or /lit/fag.

>>34514416
your post was shit bro, if you get trolled at a merchant pic you need to calm the fuck down.

>>34514340
Right. Any discussion you dont agree with is anti-intellectual. If people want to discuss 9/11 or chemtrails they can, its their right. And people here will argue for or against them over and over again.

Funny how you accuse /pol/ of being an echo chamber when it sounds like you DO want an echo chamber that mirrors your own worldview.

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>>34514340
Official stormfront member here and active deutchmark receiving natzee. You're a filthy kike. Here's a caricature of you being a filthy kike.

>We have fucking 9/11 troof threads and chemtrail threads for fuck's sake,
If we got rid of those we'd be an echo chamber just like you claim us to be you chucklefuck

>>34514416
>enforced
If you had read my post you'd know that getting mad and leaving of your own accord is not what makes an echo chamber.

>>34514587
>DURR THE EARTH IS FLAT
>LOL YOU THINK THIS DISCUSSION IS ANTI-INTELLECTUAL? DUMB CUNT OPEN YOUR MIND
this nigger seriously defending chemtrail threads LOL

>>34514222
>>34514299
Thanks for the insight, guys.

I've seen a liberal fuckton of debate in my 2-3 years on this board, and I feel like anyone who says its an echo chamber is either new or reads too much into the racist comments and automatically assumes we're all right-wing here.

>>34514602
>If you had read my post you'd know that getting mad and leaving of your own accord is not what makes an echo chamber.
That's not the mechanism by which the echo chamber is enforced. You have poor reading comprehension and a low IQ score; you are no longer valuable enough to hold my attention. Goodbye.

>>34514666
How can one be such a two faced asshole?

How are we supposed to not be an echo chamber, but simultaneously have mods/janitors censor opinions?

>>34514705
You've obviously never been to any type of truly open-forum environment before. The range of acceptable discussion topics here is extremely narrow and it is hard to see this if you are steeped in it.

>>34514666
>strawman lol thes ppl r so dum
>this nigger seriously defending chemtrail threads LOL
Not him, but I will continue to defend any and every thread that is open to actual discussion and debate of a topic regardless of whether I agree with that topic or even if I believe it to be completely batshit insane.

>>34513836
4chan can't be compared to Leddit because we have no vote system
Everyone is heard, like it or not

>>34514666
No im defending their right to discuss them as they see fit.

>>34514103

As someone sympathetic to many radical-left ideals (although progressively less so over the past 2 years) it's a lot to do with the fact that almost everywhere leftists flock to (I've spent extended amounts of time lurking revleft, leftist tumblrz, sites focusing on more academic discussion of left wing topics, &c.) there are small cliques who establish the parameters of acceptable discourse and the only people who post are either hacks regurgitating acceptable talking points or are actively censored.

Revleft is a very acute example because even amongst potential allies (social democrats, parliamentarians/entryists, mutualists), active participation in the main discussions gets restricted once you've admitted to (or are accused by a mod of) taking a not-revolutionary-enough stance.

So, quite similarly-minded people are confined to the "Opposing Ideologies" forum where they can only communicate with trolls and more right-wing ideologies seeking (in vain as you'll witness in any example thread) to engage the (often bizarre) stances of people on the site.

>>34514759
Who is calling for moderation you dumb fuck?
Chemtrail threads are for dumb fuckers who have never read a book.

These threads are wildly popular every time they are posted, hundreds of replies long. This demonstrates that /pol/ is full of dumb fuckers who are decidedly anti-intellectual, ergo they are not capable of intellectual debate.

>>34508774

Liberal reporting in. /pol/ has challenged many of my beliefs, but in the end I am still an economic and social liberal.

I think the great conspiracy is that conservative and liberal policy are somehow diametrically opposed. In reality, all Americans want the same thing: a beautiful and free America, strong enough to protect her interests abroad and wise enough to safeguard generations of future Americans.

I get deeply upset when conservatives and liberals alike assume that compromise is impossible because the other side "aren't true Americans." Do you think that the Founding Fathers agreed on every policy issue?

Compromise is life, and every year that the Senate and House is deadlocked due to bullshit partisan tactics is another wasted year of governance for the American people.

>>34514801
I notice that you have not provided an example of this "truly open-forum environment" or how the range of discussion topics here is supposedly narrow.

Mind listing some examples?

>>34514801
Please, enlighten all of us about these amazing open-forum environments that we're all missing out on. Take your time, post a video if you have to, share the glory with us.

>>34513563
Examples of such opinions that are not backed by facts plox???

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>>34514750

Wow so intelligent! You sure did dismiss him! You must be right!

>>34514880
> dumb fuck
> dumb fuckers
> dumb fuckers
Interesting how you went from trying to make a reasonable point to spewingforth repeated Isults so fast.

>>34514750
>you lose I win
>now I'm plugging my ears
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_chamber_%28media%29
Eat a dick

>>34514880
>Who is calling for moderation you dumb fuck?
You are by saying that we shouldn't have any chemtrail threads.

>people post in stupid threads
>therefor everyone tangentially related to those threads are stupid
I don't know how you can argue your position and not feel something wrong in your gut

>>34512747
There really isn't an equivocation to be made between reddit and pol. I was on the fucking geology sub on reddit, of all places, and people were self-censoring and being downvoted to shit because they had the gall to say something as benign as "fracking caused earthquakes aren't a problem, most of them are too small to be felt." The politics sub and atheist sub have RUINED THAT FUCKING SITE with their political elitism hive mind garbage - NO OTHER OPINIONS ARE TOLERATED. NOTHING LIKE THAT GOES ON HERE. Nothing like that at all. You can say what the fuck you want - liberal or conservative or anarcho-bullshitist or whatever. I think the problem with OP and this thread is that when a redditor sees a place that isn't absolutely dominated by leftism their knee jerk reaction is to say that it MUST be a right wing echo chamber. We'll let me
tell you something - NOTHING is more of an echo chamber than fucking reddit. That site is a cancer. The liberals can stay there as far as I'm concerned - thank God for pol.

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>>34514041

>No attention given to philosophy.

That's because we used to be a fucking NEWS board. We really only care about philosophy IN ACTION.

Leftists are perpetually buttmad at us for dismissing their untested political theories on the basis of their past failures. We literally don't care about motivation political or otherwise until we see it in action.

We aren't an echo chamber though as we welcome all groups to come in and hurl shit at us for hurling shit at them - more to the point is that our opinions are simply too diverse to be an echo chamber - we don't rally around our members with support or resoundingly support any cause. Which would be a base requirement for an echo chamber.

>Of course /pol/ is an echo chamber; you don't need accounts, upvotes, or moderation to create a perpetual sycophantic circle-jerk of an environment; all you need is enough propaganda and loud voices shouting down any dissenters with gay kike pics. Then you have created the "echo chamber" wherein everyone agrees and those who do not realize that the vast majority of us are imbecilic children who cannot be convinced of any logic contradictory to the /Pol/ Approved Narrative™.

I think the only thing that supports a /pol/ approved narrative is that the right wingers can debunk the left wingers' facts and statistics and left wingers cannot do the same - except to point to vapid philosophical reasonings and arguments tangentially relevant to, and precariously applied to the topic at hand - which 9/10 times is a news story or historically relevant event.

e.g.

>Michael Brown was shot by a racist cop for being black..

This requires practical working analytical skill to dissect and digest - not philosophical knowledge or pedantry.

e.g.

>The media is pushing as narrative and fucking lying here's why…

Here's what contributes nothing to the thread:

>I think that Michael Brown is a victim of an oppressive racist society...

Anyway, Go fuck yourself.

>Slykike.jpg

>>34508774
Im a leftist and browse here pretty frequently. Mostly because i hate niggers, slavs, and mudsides.

>>34515091
>You are by saying that we shouldn't have any chemtrail threads.
Who the fuck said this?
Once again, your reading comprehension skills are quite poor. You can't discern the meaning behind a statement or judge its intent.

>>34509485
>wigger irl
>nazi

Are you 10

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>>34508774
I reject the left/right paradigm but if someone called me a left-leaning anarchist i wouldn't be opposed.

>>34514750
>>34515091
Hahahaha! Obviously you don't know what a fucking echo chamber is.

>>34508774
Leftists and even mainstream liberals show up occasionally, but no one ever listens or engages because they usually resort to calling us a bunch of idiots instead of providing reasoned arguments. Fact is, most of /pol/ and Tumblr-style SWJs are in many ways opposite sides of the same coin. There is a strong tendency on both sides to take the worst, most extreme, arguments and frame them as, "This is what X actually believe." Both sides can be btfo by anyone with decent rhetoric, an actual education, and some sense of history. Take feminism vs MRAs for example. Here's Karen Straughan, Naomi Wolfe, and some random radical lesbian anarchist discussing the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z7nteHMPJ8

>>34515241
>whaa you guys have chemtrail threads
>you shouldn't have chemtrail threads
>but don't do anything to stop chemtrail threads
>just magic chemtrail threads out of existence
I don't think it's possible to please you here or anywhere else on the internet.

>>34515424

>there are more planes in the sky since 1980
>holy fucking shit the NWO is spraying us with chemicals

I just don't understand the logical leaps, here.

>>34515186
I'm a right-winger myself and I'm on here very often. I don't hate any of those three groups, although I do hate the black subculture I believe can be rightly called niggerism that encourages young people to commit crime and pass their pussy/cock around like it's a party favour.

I will call a nigger a nigger, just like I'll call white trash white trash, but men like Bill Cosby and Thomas Sowell are intelligent black men.

>>34515536
Is your rebuttal to just try to relate me to the people who post in chemtrail threads?

You know you CAN cede a point.

>>34515171
Well said.

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I'm a moderate

>>34515536
I don't agree that chemtrails exist.

That said, I will be fine with /pol/ having chemtrails from now until the end of days because fucking free speech.

>>34515712
>I will be fine with /pol/ having chemtrail threads*
Whoops.

>>34515628

I'm not the guy you replied to. I was making more a general statement on the feasibility of the chemtrail conspiracy.

At least the "Moon Landing was Faked" conspiracy actually makes sense. I just can't figure out where the chemtrails thing comes from.

>>34515401

>because they usually resort to calling us a bunch of idiots instead of providing reasoned arguments.
>You called me a name. I can't argue any more.

Get bent.

>>34510725

Doubtful. I've become more extreme with age, experience, and sexual prowess.

>>34511148
The big issue is the size of the US. And I'm afraid of the US being broken down into smaller states too quickly, because that could cause instability globally, and threaten the persistence of the resulting countries.

>>34510467

>a place with entirely no moderation and cencorship shows people are actually more right winged

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>>34511740
>he thinks the NSDAP is compatible with the Capitalist/Communist dichotomy
>he thinks a socialist ideology is far right

no anon, you are the stupid

>>34515847
Oh right, because tone policing someone automatically means you lose the argument.

>>34515536
That wasnt his point.

>>34510725
>Do you guys think there's a correlation between holding rather extreme political beliefs and a lack of pussy?
If there is any, it's that the knowledge it takes to actually hold those beliefs and be able to debate someone on them is less time you have to go stick your dick in some (likely STD-ridden) whore.

>>34515950

>taking muh political compass seriously

>>34515401
>resort to namecalling

Sad but true, and it illustrates a counterpoint to OP perfectly. Liberals are USED to being in a fucking hugbox 24/7 - could you imagine living in a place like San Fransisco or NYC as a liberal? Think about the people they interact with and the media they are exposed to. That is probably as much of a hugbox as one could ever hope to find.

They bring the hugbox mindset, a smug sense of superiority backed by exactly nothing, to pol. They are instantly overwhelmed with both logical and well worded criticisms, and being called a fucking retard or a faggot. They see a bunch of threads talking about topics FAR beyond the normal range of PC garbage they are exposed to. I'm sure it DOES look like an echo chamber to them.

I for one welcome it, stay awhile OP. You might learn something, you might teach something. Keep an open mind - isn't that what you people are all about anyway?

>>34515934
>4chin /pol/ is a remotely accurate representation of society

>>34515934
>implying you can make a reasonable conjecture on people in general based off an imageboard

>>34516018
>people's public facade matches their privately held beliefs

>>34515971
This is the internet where if you get passionate "u mad" and your arguments can suddenly be ignored, because you've been "le trolled XD."

Anyone with a competent argument would just continue addressing your arguments, rather than the language (racist words) or tone used.

>>34516130
implying my post implied that. implier

>>34516011
The problem is that you only see the hugbox liberals because they flame themselves out. You don't notice the rest of us, and assume we're like you. We're not. But often we share points in common.

Don't mistake my agreement with something as a political alignment. You wouldn't vote for me if I ran for office but we can hate on whores, feminists, niggers, immigration, and Obama all day long and you'd never notice a thing out of place.

4 chin /pol/ is a joke. This is there hugbox their circle jerk their daisy chain. They are the edgiest because each little finger that crawls up their sphincter encourages them to be more bold. When the entire fist enters that become echo puppets desperately searching for anything that can encourage their ego.

>>34516002
>taking it seriously enough to misconstrue cross-policy parties

m8 you were better off not saying anything at all. How new are you?

>>34515780
Incidentally the moon landing conspiracy is fucking retarded to anyone who knows shit about
>global politics circa 1969
>photography
>filmography
>aerospace engineering

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>>34516227

>>34516048
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2ch#Affinity_towards_conservative_politics
You see it elsewhere. Places with absolutely no restrictions on what you can say are generally more right wing.

>>34516227
Agreed. Couldn't have said it better myself. We are both so smart to think this.

>>34516207
No I get that. I wasn't saying that. But a lot of liberals do indeed come across that way. It's an interesting phenomenon, how this board gets accused of being right wing, when people like you are a part of us. I see plenty of leftist ideas posts and beliefs, and yet this board is consistently portrayed as being right wing in media. I find that fascinatingly disingenuous.

>>34516244

Oh, I'm 100% confident we actually landed on the moon. You can fucking see the landing site with a relatively weak telescope, but that's besides the point.

I just mean that the chemtrails conspiracy is on par with "reptilian aliens control world politics" for feasibility. I mean, that's homeless-tier conspiracy theories.

>>34511033
>I want to be a liberal, it's really nice to believe in progress. I just have a really hard time of it anymore.

But doesn't any look at history debunk this? Whether it's egalitarian per-agricultural societies, ancient empires that run on slavery and military expansion or the feudal systems of the middle ages. Isn't the idea that we can't "progress" in complete disregard to all the times were we have?

>>34516227
I'm agreeing with you on this one. You are one intelligent person. Good to see a level headed person around here.

How can anyone unironically be a communist in 2014?

I know I'm being trolled.

>>34516392

>humanity is constantly progressing in terms of science, understanding of ethical rights, and justice.
>but hasn't progressivism been disproved?

What? You're posting to an anonymous messageboard over your worldwide link to the sum total of human knowledge that is the internet.

>>34515971

>'Tone Policing'
>Ceasing participation in a debate on an anonymous image board because someone taking an opposing stance has said something you didn't like or in a tone you do not agree with
>Standing on some sort of moral high ground
>On 4chan

Yeah. It flies in the face of the freedom of speech and expression of ideas this board culture has came to embrace. We don't do that here. Hugboxes and echo chambers and activists do. So when you try and use SJW tactics here, it shows a dearth of intellectual strength and fidelity. Basically it would be the equivalent of refusing to talk to the moderator of a real world debate because you don't like his tie. The conversation ends by your action. You actually do lose the debate.

>>34516372
I get pretty pissed at 99% of the references to 4chan for the same reason. As much as moot is a jew and mods are faggots I love the fuck out of this shithole.

Honestly I spent years on the straight dope message boards and then one day stumbled here because of some animu and just never left. Every time I look anywhere else it's just so much fucking bullshit. People having screennames and identities and "you all know me, but listen to this" like they're some kind of message board god... fuck I hate it.

This place would have to be at least 10 times worse than it is to even approach how shit 99% of the internet is.

>>34508774
Commit suicide immediately.

>>34516437

> durr liberals are commies !

>>34516476
yeah but what's happened since last thursday huh smartypants

>>34514008
I made that statement based on public perception of them. I have ordered his book Stop the Coming Civil War because
A) it is interesting to read on a persons train of thought on how America is going to go Civil War 2.0
B) I respect the mans opinion and even though I may not see eye-to-eye with him all the time I do take his opinion more than just a grain of salt

>>34516144
Jeez, the main point i was trying to make is that /pol/ and SWJ are actually alike in that they far too frequently resort to ad hominem as their main attack. And this provides a convenient excuse to refuse to engage with the other side. And this is stupid. I'd actually like to see less poo flinging and more liberals posting here pointing out some of the bullshit that passes for received wisdom on /pol/. But it's not happening.

>>34516392
Your problem is that your view of history is clouded by your own ideology. Think about it this way - to slave based societies, THEY were the most progressive. Slavery was an efficient method of maximizing agricultural production, and slavery was more humane than genocide. They were MUCH more prosperous and advanced than the hunter-gatherers or nomads before them, even though by a modern definition hunter gatherers were more "progressive" in the sense that they were eglatarian. You forget that agriculture is no longer so labor intensive - we no longer have need of slaves. Progress as you define it really isn't progress in the absolute sense of the word, you are just imposing your own values on society and calling it "progress."

Why is most of the civilized world including most of Europe , Canada and Australia more progressive and functional while America is shitted up and asshat backwards by stupid right wing fuckers like the Republicans and TEATURDS /pol/?

>>34516828

>I'd actually like to see less poo flinging and more liberals posting here pointing out some of the bullshit that passes for received wisdom on /pol/. But it's not happening.

They're probably too busy 'tone policing' the other boards they frequent.

>>34516523
I'm the guy you replied to. You leftistas are alright, good to have you. Please for the love of god though pick someone besides fucking Warren. Please.

>>34516983

Elizabeth warren is based though

Personally I wish Bernie Sanders would run for president

>>34511297
>>America's welfare as it is now is acceptable. Drug tests to receive it are more than appropriate though. Some people could do with a bit more, and some people could do with a bit less, but no one's starving from it.

Disregarding the invasion of privacy argument, the problem with this is that it doesn't work and is a waste of money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us/no-savings-found-in-florida-welfare-drug-tests.html?_r=0

>>Schools don't have the right to tell someone of a particular religion what they should or should not think is wrong.
>>Schools should be completely open to any non-violent religious expression(or lack thereof), and should avoid having anything to do with teaching the students their morals or trying to influence their ambitions.

Aren't these two contradictory?

>>Judging applicants based on their race for important positions and competitive school seats results in a lower quality of results. It doesn't matter if you're White, Indian, Black, or Hispanic. If you're the best person for the job, you deserve it.

I disagree with affirmative action on principle, but interestingly enough minority students who get in as a result of affirmative action tend to have better results.

http://diverseeducation.com/article/54320/
(I know it's not the best source, but couldn't find a better one)

>>34516828
I of course don't know of what specific events you speak, but in my experience 90% of the people that accuse others of using an ad hom fallacy do not understand it at all.

>he called me a dick
>ad hom!
no faggot. If I said, >>34516828 is a huge fucking faggot and therefore, as with all faggots, you can ignore him, because he's practically a woman, and we all know how fucking dumb women are... well, that'd be an ad hominum.

But,
>faggot
Is not an ad hom, just an insult.

Again, dunno if you are like this, but in my experience most people mistake insults for ad hom.

>>34516845
You talking about feudalism(serfdom)?

I find it hard to apply such rhetoric to American nigger slavery or imperialism.

>>34516476

That's my point, we have progressed in so many ways.

>>34510679

It's a close analogy you fucknuckle.

Im a socialist, and a nationalist. My views on a lot of things are not what people would commonly call left wing however. For example i think people should not only be able to have guns, but training should be mandatory. An armed populace who were properly taught gun safety from an early age is nothing but beneficial to the greater good.

>>34516983
I like about 75% of Warren tho :(

It's Hillary that scares the shit out of me. She is toxic. And I fear the democrats are going to run with her. And that she'll win.

Warren can't win a presidency. Yet.

>>34517279

Nothing wrong with Based Hillary

Better than any of the republicans candidates unless it's Rand Paul

>>34516983
>>34517070

Liberal here - picking Warren would be a huge mistake for us. She would split the liberal party into the far-left and moderate left, just like the Tea Party has buttfucked the Republicans chances at a President for the foreseeable future.

Hillary is the biggest tent that liberals can muster and she's our best option. Cory Booker from NJ would be an excellent second choice, although two black presidents in a row would cause conservatives everywhere to suicide.

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Under places of free speech, people tend to show more right-wing views.

>>34517142
All slavery. Don't hide behind the flag.

>>34517184
You call it progress, I call this regression.

I've taken a liking to the DE view of history in that whig egalitarian ideology is broken and seeks to devour the world under the guise of social progress.

Are people in fact more free when they are ostracized or silenced by the vocal population than the State? The way I see it is it is more akin to the Scarlet Letter while you people cry 1984 when government resistance is met on your rampage "forward".

>>34517342
Obama is Bush lite, and Hillary is Bush lite with a side of feminism. Literally no improvement over what we have now.

>>34517279
Hillary would be great for our foreign policy and the overall wealth of the US.

Honestly the internal stuff is more of a theater than actual problems anyway so its not like it will matter if things continue being super bizzaro.

She will secure the pipelines, manipulate our puppet states, and probably not start world war 3.

>>34516845

My point was that it's bullshit to believe the conservative mantra that "this is the way humans are meant to be and as such 'progress/change' is impossible / imposing unnatural structures upon humanity" that >>34511033 seemed to present. As any look at history will show great amounts of change.

>>34517275
I agree. An armed and trained populace discourages the government from stepping outside their bounds and, in my opinion, discourages criminals.

5 out of 5 rapists prefer that their victim is unarmed.

>>34517442
>probably not start world war 3.
See this is exactly what she scares the shit out of me. I think she would, just prove women are as strong as men; or, that she wouldn't (if we should) just to prove women are more peaceful than men. I just have associated her in my head with identity politics shit and I hate it.

Probably irrational bullshit, but I sweat a little every time I hear her speak.

>>34517373

Is that Because most conservatives are closeted racist and homophobes ?

>>34517140
I know exactly what ad hominem means and it's exactly the kind of arguments liberals on /pol/ tend to make. "The only reason you guys believe this stuff is because you're a bunch of basement dwelling NEETs who are scared of the changes taking place in today's society," is very typical of liberal posters here. And no one seems very inclined to engage with those people. And this refusal to engage is what I called tone policing. I'm not defending it, I'm describing it. I've explicitly said that I'd like to see more liberal posters arguing actual issues because I think it would improve the board.

>>34517489
I think it's naive to do away with traditionalism simply because progressivism is "newer"
That isn't a valid justification.

>>34517498
I dunno. Given her background as SecState, I think she's more likely to at least try the diplomatic route than sending in Marines or ordering air strikes. Also the Clintons always got along well with the international community, so if we do need to exercise hard options at least we'll have some multilateral consensus.

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>>34508774
Žižek was the first philosopher to redpill me on how much ideology controls the way we think, vote, etc. Not even just hating liberals/conservatives, etc. but even the more subtle things like environmentalism being a form of ideology. Despite being a leftist, Žižek fucking loathes treehuggers because he considers them slaves to ideology.

Anyway, as hipster as it sounds, I feel like anyone who can define their political views in words like liberal or conservative does so with the implication that the solutions to society's/America's/the world's ills are contained within their brand of ideology, which leads to cognitive dissonance when presented with ideas that conflict with their ideology. People, left or right, are literally afraid to reject or, in severe cases, begin to question their own viewpoints simply because those same views are attached to an ideology with which others also identify. Leaving a community with which you've had positive feedback is rarely pleasant

I guess this doesn't really answer the question of whether I'm a leftist or right-winger, but I guess the tl;dr answer is that it's not really important for me. Not because I don't care, but because I don't profess to believe that I know the answers to societal problems, problems which entail layers of complexity that neither I nor 99 percent of humans can even begin to address. I sympathize with most SJW causes, but not to the extent that I personally identify as a 'feminist' or what have you. I lean to the left on a majority of issues, but I won't consider myself a 'leftist'. However, my conclusions are only based on my readings and research, which could, at any time, be weakened or even rebutted by new and more relevant information. If and when that time comes, I don't want to be afraid to alter my viewpoints. I don't want to become attached.

>>34517498
She has the least chance of starting shit from my perspective.

She is very strong and well connected, not some rookie politician. She has spent the last few years going around the world making those back room deals already, and people are afraid of her.

She is the perfect person to play the current global climate because she helped engineer it.

From a purely pragmatic viewpoint america would be best off with her as president. If we insist on doing all these regime toppling pipeline manipulation, and fucking with china and russia, you want someone whos been in the game a long time and has a cool head and a steady hand.

You get some kind of idealist in there and they are likely to ruin everything.

Im voting for her, even if its as a write in.

>>34517592
As a liberal, I don't engage with people like you because when I announce I'm a liberal, all I get is people flying off the handle insisting I defend every dumb fucking thing ever done by anyone who self-describes or just sorta seems like or conforms to a strawmanned version of a liberal. You do it in your very post.

>liberals are such idiots, i don't know why they won't engage with me
It's not a really big mystery dude.

>>34517790

Hillary isn't going to get any support from Obama; the two families aren't friends. And god knows if it's a contest between two white chicks, the black vote will go to the one who Lord Barack nominates.

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>>34517521
>>34517521
Yes, and I'd like to bring them out of the closet.

>born this way

>>34517870
I really dont know why anyone would self identify as a liberal or a conservative. Those are pre-packaged stances on things, anyone who isnt all over the place is not thinking and probably shouldnt be allowed to vote anyway.

>>34517967
If hillary wants to run there will be no competition, people will stay out of her way because she will kill people who get in it.

There will be token competition to make it look legit for the stupid masses.

>>34517864
>you want someone whos been in the game a long time and has a cool head and a steady hand.
Is that Hillary though? Sec of State is not a military position. On one hand, that's maybe good, because she's not deeply invested in the military industrial shit. But... ehhhhh.

>Also the Clintons always got along well with the international community, so if we do need to exercise hard options at least we'll have some multilateral consensus.
I don't like the thought of
>bush clinton clinton bush bush obama obama clinton
a lot. I don't think it helps us look like a meritocracy when we have dynasties like this.

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>>34518032
>Those are pre-packaged stances on things
For you.

>>34517718
Of course, but I wasn't trying to argue for "progressiveness" in all it's vagueness. I was arguing against the idea that change would be against the natural state of humanity.

>>34517870
>liberals are such idiots, i don't know why they won't engage with me

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that when liberals post like that, /pol/ refuses to engage with THEM. And it's stupid.

I've also said this:
>There is a strong tendency on both sides to take the worst, most extreme, arguments and frame them as, "This is what X actually believe."

So I feel your pain when you talk about having to defend every dumb fucking thing. There's plenty of shitposters on /pol/. /pol would be the first to admit this. I'm saying over and over again that I'd like to see more arguments about actual issues rather than poo flinging, but you turn around and accuse me of flinging poo.

>>34518094
This. If Warren even decides to run, the "liberal" press would shut her down in a heartbeat as being too extreme. "Better vote for Hillary, because a vote for Warren will just drive the independents into the arms of the GOP", will be relentlessly driven into the mind of the American public. Just like they did with Jerry Brown when Bill ran in '92.

>>34518376
>I'm saying that when liberals post like that, /pol/ refuses to engage with THEM. And it's stupid.
I dunno... I don't think it is. I do get flustered a lot on /pol/ when I say "I'm a liberal" and get shit, but honestly after I get over it I don't think too much more about it. After all, saying "I'm a liberal" doesn't actually say anything at all, it just serves to pointlessly align me with a nebulously-defined group. Arguments should stand on their own.

/pol/ does tend towards a double standard here, though. Anyone seeking to identify with a group instead of just speaking their mind directly should get shit on.

See you in another thread anon. I've got twitterers to troll.

>>34518148
>meritocracy

AHAHAHA! We oligarchy nao.

>>34518537
Warren would be shut down Ron Paul style. It would be disgusting. Fuck this fucking country sometimes man.

>>34517070
Warren is a marketing campaign. She doesn't actually do anything.

>>34518615
Don't say "I'm a liberal." Remember, we're all Anons here. Just call out the bullshit arguments on issues for being bullshit. I do this all the time when /pol/ is being particularly stupid or extreme and never get called out for it.

>>34518231
>>34518231
I see.

Though I think most people would be content with "don't fix what isn't broken", I get the feeling what you're arguing is moot in nature. It's the exact reason why we have the bipartisan liberal vs conservative crowds in the first place.

>>34518148
I dont think you are understanding. The wars are going to continue because the US must control the pipelines into europe. Thats a given. Thus far we have been handling a lot of it by avoiding blatant direct involvement, she is at the heart of that, as is many of the elite. Back when the leviathan natural gas field was discovered off of israel one of the first things she did was try to campaign to get the rules regarding who owns what water in the event that two nations have coastline where the normal definition of the extent of natural waters (which extends a fixed distance from your coastline) overlap, bringing who owns what into question. The purpose, seemingly obviously, was to ensure israel could control that gas field.

It was her husband who ultimately is responsible for the issue in ukraine right now because back in the 90s he pushed very hard to set in motion an expedited push to bring that region into the west using european and NATO connections and resources.

She is behind or involved the various color revolutions in arab spring.

She is part of the caste that shapes the current geopolitical climate and the worry is that while these people have plans and are skilled at manipulating things, some newbie may overstep his bounds and take his 'president' position a little too seriously and destabilize things somewhere.

With her as president we would have a president whos actually allowed to do things and is not just a puppet, that would be refreshing.

>>34518853
oh exactly, I just have to remind myself of this reflex to identify with shit often

it's really scary to think about how often it happens. Sometimes I just lurk 4chan and look at all the people struggling to prove they identify with such-and-such rather than just talking.

>>34518756
Not true. One of the few voices in the Senate that called for actual prosecutions of actual people in the banking scandals instead of meaningless fines like the BofA thing yesterday.

>>34518954
>voices
Again, she doesn't do anything. She's got a self-promotion machine rivaling Ron Paul but without actually getting anything done.

>>34519006
what is she going to do, personally pull out a gun and start shooting? It isn't like she's god emperor of the united states.

>>34519006

Ron Paul hasent done jack shit except promote his self defeating ideology

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>>34518005

>>34519006
Of course she doesn't do anything, she's a freshman in an organization where seniority means everything. Give her some time to rise in the system.

>>34519047
Write bills, spearhead projects, lead committees, the kinds of actually-doing-stuff things one should be doing who wants to rule the nation and not just be a "voice". Do you want a leader who is just a voice? We had that with Bush, it just means someone you didn't elect will be the one actually doing things.

>>34519161
>time to rise
But her propaganda machine was pushing for the presidency, anon. They don't seem to require more than a "voice".

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>>34511105
Read the pic

>>34519339
It's not "her" propaganda machine. She's said several time she wants to stay in the Senate. It's liberal bloggers trolling for clicks that are pushing for the presidency.

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they're just jews

>>34509155
explain