Can we have a technocratic eco-socialism thread going on?

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bump

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no we can not, and I think you should go.

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ALL ANARCHO-CAPITALIST-TRANSHUMANIST-TECHNOCRATIC-VOLUNTARYISTS REPORT IN

>>33161207
>>33161519
>he thinks it is a viable option

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>>33162034
>implying it's not the only viable option

>>33161207
Communism can work guys. We just need to correct for the problems of human nature by brainwashing them to submit to an as-of-yet undeveloped computer algorithm.

But it's gonna work. Trust me.

>>33161207
why socialism though.

why not

technocratic
eco-based/renewable
free market

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>>33161207

Notice how his cities are completely empty. No people, no stores, no restaurants, no coffee shops. Just faceless buildings. It is a city devoid of life.

Even Hitler took the time to draw people in his paintings. The Venus Project guy doesn't understand human nature and therefore hates humans. Real people have no place in his vision of communism run by machines.

Everybody must have been liquidated. Post the drawings of the circular, shiny white concentration camps. Show us the pretty pictures of the fully automated crematoriums.

Tell them communism can happen if they drop capitalism

>Fuck off pinko faggot

Show them a flawless futuristic world setting with lots of techy stuff involved

>Woah awesome cool man where do i sign?


Boggles my mind how the minds of these plebs work.

>>33162405
Planned obsolescence comes with free market, so it`s contradictory.

>>33162458

This.

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>>33162458
Of course, because overcrowded cities with packed people and inefficient transportation means it has life

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>>33162458
Socialism and all of it's relatives are all about "the plan", but if "the planners" must choose between the people and "the plan", they WILL choose "the plan", even if "the plan" fails.
And "the plan" WILL fail.

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>>33162458
wut?

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>>33162458
You are actually discrediting an entire project based off of your own art critique?
Look again then. What you see as 'devoid of life' I see as a blank space to project the multitude of possibilities as to what could pass for life in a future unconstrained by resources.
Hitler may very well have drawn in his own little people, but a people that submitted to his vision of them too.

Also that picture is in serious need of quotation marks around every utterance of 'communism' by those 4 feudal lords.

>>33163330
Meant to say
>Unconstrained by resource scarcity

>>33161207
To think, he probably would have got his chance had America not recovered from its own internal 'peak oil' crisis by importing from abroad.

>>33161207

You are the one one making them Zamolxis you mentally ill faggot.

>>33162458

It's a fucking computer render by an architectural designer you fucking retard, it's not supposed to be a true to life representation of anything, it's a conceptual draft.

Go back to reading your bible dipshit.

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>>33163472
I'm not the OP but i like cities and communism so here i am

>>33161207

>the future will always be geometric

Fkin autism errywhere

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>>33162936

That's exactly what it means. If you like empty streets, then move to North Korea. Impressive brutalist structures that are unfinished and completely empty.

>>33161207

I am very likely the only true technocrat on reddit/4chan/freenode/etc. who adheres to the classical technocratic principles of the founders of the original philosophy.

I wrote this on Le Hugbox:

>http://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/277o4q/correcting_reddits_chronic_misunderstanding_of/

And a related comment thread here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Technocracy/comments/27aw8u/correcting_reddits_chronic_misunderstanding_of/ci0552a

Basically, no-one appears to fucking recall what technocracy was originally about, and you get these AnCap morons, Communist retards, and general right-wing shitbags who think they fucking know anything about it at all because they read the garbagepedia article about it.

/pol/ is about the last possible place I can imagine any productive technocratic discourse taking place, as this is a website full of generally uneducated and extremist idiots who can't even properly read an academic paper without their moronic ideologies getting in the way of being a rational, logical human being.

I commend the effort of attempting a technocracy thread OP, but frankly it's pointless on /pol/ and even if you wanted a heated debate with dipshits about it, I'm doubtful you even understand it well enough yourself to try, as evidenced by posting that Venus Project/Zeitgeist/RBE stupidity in your image.

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>>33163938
>I am very likely the only true technocrat

stopped right there

>>33164019

I've been at this for years. I'm a genuinely special snowflake in this regard; a shimmering spectral unicorn glittering in cyberspace.

GG on the ad hom. Go back to worrying about the shadow jews now like a good goy.

>>33163938
Thems is some fightin words you got there, Hollywood fag boy

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>>33164185

come at me

>>33163330
>You are actually discrediting an entire project based off of your own art critique?

Yes. Good for me. The so called "Venus Project" is just one old man that draws pretty pictures. That's it. That's all there is of the "Project".

>Hitler may very well have drawn in his own little people, but a people that submitted to his vision of them too.

The difference is that Hitler was the greatest politician of all time. He understood human nature.

Your old man doesn't even believe that human nature exists. He can't even lead hippies that are exactly like him. The guy that made the "Zeitgeist" videos split and now denounces him. He's leading Jack and shit. And Jack left town.

>Also that picture is in serious need of quotation marks around every utterance of 'communism'

You are the typical communist. You prove the picture 100% correct.

Typical communist hypocrite: The only real communist country is the one that I will rule.

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>>33161207

What do you want to know about it?

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>>33163912
Planned cities always prove to be efficient and sustainable in the longterm. Chaotic development of any city is a mayor's nightmare, starting with Rome's random urban slums before planning kicked in again, and finishing with today's favelas in Brazil.

Pic related is how a libertarian paradise looks like, untouched, unmanaged. A city left all by itself at the mercy of chance

>>33164320
>>33164154
Hmm...
I'm sure you'll see this as an Ad Hom, but just being truthful. If you came up to me in real life and said all of the things you're saying here, I'd assume you were a genuinely autistic millennial who spends too much time on the internet.

I'm not sure how you can utilize this information to stop doing...whatever it is you're doing...but maybe try to learn how to communicate without memes, self promotion, and so much arrogance. Good luck with your arrogant blog posts and whatever, anyway.

>>33164552

This *is* the internet, dumbass. I qualified my sperging with saying that at the outset that no true scotsmen exist on reddit/4chan/etc in the technocratic regard.

If you're incapable of picking up on mild ironic self deprecation, perhaps consider you might be the autist.

You're a classic oblivious cock /pol/lisher.

>>33164783
Every single sentence in your rant just screams "autism".

I mean, I guess it's not a bad thing if you're that smart type of autistic...but it kind of just seems like you're the loud whiner arrogant type of autist.

>>33163938
>this is a website full of generally uneducated and extremist idiots who can't even properly read an academic paper

what use does /pol/ have for jewdemics? You do understand your precious "science" is just a bunch of elites shitting all over the actual truth, right?

but like all you libtards, you gobble it up.

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>>33164485
>Planned cities always prove to be efficient and sustainable in the longterm.

If you believe that shit, then prove it. Move to North Korea. They have lots of space for you.

Just hope that the communists don't deem you too "inefficient" to live.

>>33161207

No.

Socialism can't be technocratic because a technocratic goverment requires systems to avoid corruption and ineficency.

Socialism is pretty weak to corruption, because it destroys the material economy so to grow and prosper you need to create a net of favours and influences, based on human trust that go beyond the control of the system.

And its inefficient because it need bureocracy at absurd and bestial levels to even try to keep free will under control. Failing at bringin an effective bureocracy and a control to human behaviour.

So, please, leave while you can and go to venus project or something.

>>33164414
There's really no point discussing anything with you, since your massive infallibility complex is getting in the way of that.

Also communism never existed in anything but theory. You'd understand that if you took a step back to look at the greater picture. Hitler understand human nature, but not in some benevolent manner, only to exploit those he'd amass. Same went for Capitalism and the exact same goes for 'Communism', a pretty package dangled at the end of line while those who run whichever flavour of shit-show hold the yoke.

>>33164888

I am autistic. I'm also an otherkin transracial body-positive HAES activist.

Doesn't change the fact you're an idiot, and I'd frankly rather be whatever your internet fantasies say I am than be someone like you on /pol/

>>33165106
>Doesn't change the fact you're an idiot, and I'd frankly rather be whatever your internet fantasies say I am than be someone like you on /pol/
Well, I'm glad that you do acknowledge that you're autistic, anne frankly I think the massive projection and over generalization to really prove that you are autistic was redundant, but thanks for proving your autism beyond a reasonable doubt.

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>>33164928
Yeah because that's a fantastic and fair comparison.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you sound like you live in America. What's so different about the fate you have ordained for you when society deems you too 'poor' to live?

>>33164485
>2014
>Still thinks Kowloon is a negative example
It stood for years until the gov't tore it down. It's former residents still miss it.
>B-but it's unmanaged!
How awful for you.

>>33163938
Can you recommend any literature on classical technocracy? Books, really. Not reddit links

>>33165252

>using autism as an insult on the internet
>being this fucking stupid
>being 14 years old

Are you done yet? Y'know, if you want to have fun making fun of Autistic people there's a website called wrongplanet.com and they have a chat room that you'd fit into wonderfully.

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>>33164928
This is Dongtan, it is an eco-city in China planned to deal with the polluting environments in China at the moment.

It's clean, it's beautiful. it's efficient in the longterm

Planned cities are much more superior to cities left to evolve organicly

>>33165406

>https://archive.org/details/technocracyfirst00smyt
>https://archive.org/details/TechnocracyStudyCourseUnabridged
>https://archive.org/details/theorybusinesse00veblgoog
>http://www.gutenberg.org/files/833/833-h/833-h.htm
>http://fredturner.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/Turner-Buckminster-Fuller-Technocrat-for-the-CC.pdf

Just a small sample. It's a shame technocracy is such a fringe ideology. It has a vast and deep body of philosophical and technical/scientific thought behind it.

>>33165252
So you are fat, have a mental disorder and have absolutely no grip to reality.

Why should i listen to anything you say.

>>33165650

And the difference between China and the west is the Chinese will *actually* fucking BUILD it. Westerners just make pretty 3D renders of planned cities, and they never fucking come to fruition because >muh freidumbs!

oculpeo

>>33165440
And a final extra bit of proof that you're autistic.
That's a lot of meme arrows to defend autistic people... You have a dog in that fight, huh?

Or are you just a millennial SJW? Probably both, they seem to go hand in hand anymore.

>>33165838

>unable to detect mocking sarcasm

Son, do you really want to fucking continue this? Get off my cock and post something relevant or stfu.

>>33165855

Seems to me the only bitch fighting for anything here is you attempting to artificially inflate your self-worth on 4chan.

>>33166020
If that's how you want to see it, that's fine.
Calling someone autistic when they are clearly autistic doesn't really inflate my self worth, but if that is how you want to see it...

>>33165851

Because it takes unbelievable amounts of manpower and resources to accomplish. Which China is the only thing on this planet willing to spend on that shit.

>>33164907
/pol/ has no need for a brain either.

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>>33165279
>that's a fantastic and fair comparison.

Correct.

>you live in America. What's so different about the fate you have ordained for you when society deems you too 'poor' to live?

The "poor" aren't thrown into concentration camps to starve to death. Instead the taxpayers pay for their iphones and $200 Nike Air Jordans.

>>33166118

Except you've completely misjudged me and shown that the only important aspect of this thread for you was to come and insult someone you disagreed with to feel better about yourself.

Listen, I'm not your abusive, incompetent, or absentee daddy. You had no reason to attempt to insult me, even if I were actually autistic.

Facts you dumb nigger.

I can do renders of futuristic buildings too. It doesn't mean I've created the blueprints for some perfect society in which socialism can actually function.

>>33165650

>our whole country is polluted
>lets make a pretty looking city to distract the west from it

Communism everyone.

>>33166335
>shown that the only important aspect of this thread for you was to come and insult someone you disagreed with
Welcome to the internet, I guess we can deduce from that statement that you're not one of the intelligent type of autists.
>Listen, I'm not your abusive, incompetent, or absentee daddy. You had no reason to attempt to insult me
generalizations, check
projection, check
blind fire insults, check
>even if I were actually autistic
There's no doubt anymore, you don't need to say it in a way that vaguely hints that you might not be autistic.

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>>33161207
>that soulless, geometric architecture

Disgusting. It's like a flat sculpture, without life.

>>33163373
>Unconstrained by resource scarcity

my sides

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>>33166526

>generalizations, accurate
>projection, non-existent
>blind fire insults, on point

Y'know, I've never met such an educated psychology professional on /pol/ such as yourself. Can I take this time to ask you about this case of PTSD I got from fucking your father's ass and getting my dick shit on when he lost bowel control during orgasm while calling your name?

>speaking of projection

>>33163330
Its actually an allegory for what he finds wrong in the idea: the lack of plausibility.

>>33166852
>>generalizations, accurate
>>projection, non-existent
>>blind fire insults, on point
It's very common for autists to believe their delusions to be true, as such I will no longer attempt to point out that you are generalizing and projecting, and will merely laugh internally at your glaring autism.

>Sarcastic rant filled with curse words strung together so badly and lengthy that you'd imagine it was a Dane Cook joke

>Autistic, on point

>>33161207
>eco-socialism
>Everything is just ugly sterile parks

Have you even been outside the city?

>>33161207
It looks more like Dubai than anything 'eco'.

>>33166764
>implying we haven't reached post-scarcity

>>33167015

So you *can* detect sarcasm? Excellent, I'm glad I could help you out.

So what's you're next move, genius.

So far you've accomplished making the whole board aware that THERE'S AN AUTISTIC PERSON ON THE INTERNET and that you're a colossal fucking goon that's incapable of deviation from the sophomoric debate handbook for faggots.

Anything else you'd like to add?

>>33167286
>Anything else you'd like to add?
I'm still just driving home the one concrete fact, that you have debilitating autism. What I am hoping to achieve from relentlessly proving this point is that you'll, hopefully, stop shitting up my board with your autistic rants about superiority and go back to reddit.

>>33167128
All it would take is one cursory glance at dwindling and depleting resources from the so-called "technocrat" to see that this is not the case.

>b-but muh animes are now freee, marxists.org said we could all just get our things from a shed in the city and return them later!

Go away. The fact that it's summer, you have communist flag on and you've here posting about the fucking Venus Project of all things (indicating that you've just watched Zeitgeist), shows that you are not only completely ignorant on any topic from economics to resources to science and engineering, but that you are also 16.

>>33167128

>I'm a technocrat

We haven't. We've reached superabundance for a variety of goods and services in some societies on Earth, but we're nowhere near post-scarcity.

Actual post-scarcity won't be realized until we're far past being post-capitalist.

Until then, don't sound stupid by saying we're post-scarce, and instead use the proper term "superabundant."

>>33167417
Go away. The fact that it's summer, you have communist flag on and you've here posting about the fucking Venus Project of all things (indicating that you've just watched Zeitgeist), shows that you are not only completely ignorant on any topic from economics to resources to science and engineering, but that you are also 16.
#ThirdDegreeBurns

>>33167507
It doesn't matter. If you look up the definition of what "scarce" is in the economical sense you'll realise all of our basics can be made without hardwork. That being said, not only did we achieve post-scarcity, but any other "scarce" thing is an artifficial creation of the markets maintained for the purpose of giving something bigger worth.

Remove the markets, and you'll actually see the post-scarce world we live in today

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>>33167367

>tfw you meet self-enlightened psychologists on /pol/ and get a diagnosis on everything that's wrong with your life

Ok great, glad you've found purpose in your life.

Please continue your posts so that you may feel accomplished in your quest.

>>33167864
>Please continue your posts so that you may feel accomplished in your quest.
Don't you worry my autistic little friend, I will.

>>33167682
>Remove the markets

So I am no longer allowed to grow a carrot and either sell it or gift it to an interested party.

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>>33161207

>Every side of every building glazed with extensive curtain wall systems that require shitton of resources to be processed over and over again

>Radial, closed plan which doesn't allow for any modifications/attunaments and offers by far the worst commute capacity imaginable, forcing vehicles to stay on the road considerably longer

>City developed in every direction, regardless of surrounding enviroment and topography, let alone regional planning

>No proposals for technological systems aimed at aiding sustainability

>Whole metropolis looks like that furfag-infested city from Sanic comics

Where is the "Eco" within this project, OP? I've seen strip mines with a better aura of enviromental friendliness about them.

>>33161207
>socialism: dumb proletariat calling the shots
>technocracy: highly professional elite calling the shots
Pick one, faggot

>>33168052

This is a ubiquitous fallacy among you capitalist retards. There is nothing at all prohibiting you from bartering the products of your hobbies and interests with others in a resource based economy or an Energy Accounting economy.

The removal of markets pertains to the elimination of the profit motive in providing necessary goods and services that are essential for a healthy, pleasurable, leisurely lifestyle for everyone.

>>33167989

You forgot to point out muh autism.

You are a failure in life, anon.

Kill yourself.

>>33162213
>only viable option
>not even real

>>33168319
And selling them for a common means of exchange, making a profit and using that increase to continue providing something? Is this allowed?

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>>33163516
I spent 3 seconds to prove you are wrong.

>>33168052
You are shifting the goalposts. We need to get rid of commodity capitalism. You can keep barter and things you personally use

>>33168576

>only viable option to solve global warming is to curb emissions and implement robust carbon sequestration
>not even real

>only way to solve the drug war crisis is to move away from prohibition/incarceration and into awareness/education and treatment
>not even real

>only way to ensure everyone is able to access medical services and lead healthy and productive lives is to implement a social healthcare system and increase nutrition and lifestyle education
>not even real

>anon having a brain and making a worthwhile post
>not even real

>>33168776
see
>>33168632

>>33168468
>You forgot to point out muh autism.
>my autistic little friend,
You still get a gold star for trying. But please stop drooling on yourself.

>>33168836
>any of these problems
>needing the venus project to solve

>>33167128
We've reached post-scarcity on all the shit that doens't matter, sure.

Not food, energy, water, and land though.

>>33168632

No of course not, because in a technocratic economy an individual enterprise expanding operations to meet a social need is fucking stupid.

If you reached a point where your production methods were more efficient or produced better quality than the technocratically managed productive forces, you would BE a technocrat implementing your processes for the benefit of everyone.

But go on, keep thinking like a fucking dumbass entrepreneur with dreams of being better than your peers because you MADE IT BIG FAGGOT, YOU MADE IT SO FUCKING!

The Venus Project is certainly one of the best attempts I've seen at polishing the turd that is socialism.

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>>33161207
Where will you get all the capital from?

>>33161207
>Socialism
No thanks
>'But guys, we just havent tried my very specific brand of socialism'
So you want to risk your entire nation just in case it works, on the off chance that it might be even stable
No

>>33169057
>tall poppy syndrome: the post

Xir is Scandi I bet.

>>33168996

Did I imply Venus Project was necessary to solve them? No fuck face, I didn't.

But capitalism is failing, and these problems aren't even the worst, by far.

The real problems are lot more fucking scary, and these rich motherfuckers don't even care.

But sure, keep taking it in the ass like a good little worker. You'll be rich too someday little slugger!

>>33169114
>So you want to risk your entire nation just in case it works
If our nation ever banded together to elect "That one guy from /pol/" to figure out a system to save it...then...it was already doomed.

>>33161207
How the fuck does he expect this city to work without spending 75% of its GDP on maintenance? Even retards know you don't put large amounts of buildings and tree's near each other. The whole place is swarming with tree's and absolutely nothing else... here's a protip: The other shit you find in forests is why it works. The land in this picture would be dead within a few years worked like this. He wants perfectly blue lakes but they have fucking islands in them. Either its going to be still water and totally overrun by water plants or its going to be running and gradually wear down the islands, probably spilling out on to the roads too.

Either this is a billion $ project that needs money injecting every year to run or it will collapse into an African tier shithole (Or rather just a normal city) within a decade.
2/10 barely thought this through, I suspect he didn't even consider where he would get that much flat land without bulldozing a mountain.

>>33169275
Amazing, he mocks others for falling in line with 'da system', yet advocates a replacement that is magnitudes more constraining.

>>33168924
No, the creation of commodities and their trading is forbidden. You get to keep what capital you create and use for yourself. That's it.

>>33169017
Food, energy and water is all over the place. You just need to get rid of the market so nobody would shit on them in order for them to sell it polished and for a dandy price

>>33169385
You will be the first one to die when we seize power.

>>33169209

You are a literal fucking idiot.

People's talents and achievements in a technocracy elevate them to the technocratic class to follow their passions in scientific, social, engineering, etc. accomplishments.

The difference is, in a technocracy the technocrats aren't petty little dipshits like yourself who expects to be treated like royalty because you invented a fucking gizmo that everyone wants or because you were born lucky and bought up all the good real estate before anyone else had a chance or other completely meaningless notions of social worth.

Go kill yourself.

>>33169385
>Being this mad that you didn't think of it first

>>33169447
Yea, ok m8, I'm sure the world is minutes away from turning towards your thoroughly debunked economics.

Maybe you should just go play venus project in your pillow fort instead.

>>33162458

Man, why can't architects put gargoyles and arches and art like that on skyscrapers today? It's just steel, glass and maybe some shapeless piece of shit sculpture in front of it meant to symbolize "harmony" or some shit.

>>33169501
>The difference is, in a technocracy the technocrats aren't petty little dipshits

Guess how I know that you aren't in STEM and know very few people in STEM.

>>33163938
>I am very likely the only true technocrat on reddit
>reddit
Why the fuck you here?

>garbagepedia
Implying you are not a fucking loonie that tried several times to edit wikipedia pages and got ass kicked as an idiot.

In your entire post you said zero about what technocracy should look like.

I therefore conclude that you deserve permaban, immediately.

>>33164485
you are literally retarded

>>33169493
>points out flaws in theoretical city design
>"W-we're gonna kill you first!"

Around Reds, watch your head.

They'll kill millions while attempting to make their theories work, and then blame the dead for "not being devoted enough to the cause."

Fucking Communists.

>>33165650
>It's clean, it's beautiful. it's efficient in the longterm
It doenst even exist, moutherfucker

ITT: M-muh utopia!

>>33169655

>implying anyone involved in STEM in capitalist academia are anything like a technocrat

So, you think a voluntary class of experts who dedicate their labor to civil service because they are passionate about scientific and social progress are comparable to a bunch of fucking debt ridden children who chose STEM because of muh career prospects?

Try again, dumbass.

>>33166242
>The "poor" aren't thrown into concentration camps to starve to death. Instead the taxpayers pay for their iphones and $200 Nike Air Jordans.
I just wanted to have a good day but you had to ruin it for me.

>>33169501

Have you dealt with academia before? They're petty and egoist.

Your technocracy wouldn't work.

>>33169562
What?

The production of things for the sake of trading them is entirely different than a thing you produce just so you can consume it.

econ 101

>>33169758

I just want to point out, as the only proven technocrat on 4chan YET AGAIN that these commie fuckwits aren't technocrats or represent technocracy or anything related to it in any way.

Marxism is irrelevant to anything technocratic.

>>33165851

The Chinese will *try* to fucking build it. They won't actually succeed in any meaningful way.

>>33169853

>>33169802

>>33169886
NO I am the only proven technocrat on 4chan.

Don't listen to this guy.

Oh look it's this thread again. "HOW GREAT WOULD IT BE TO HAVE CENTRAL PLANNING RULED BY A GROUP OF ALL POWERFUL MEN /pol/"

The only reason why any of you support these ideas is because you do so with the premise of YOU being on top and YOU making all the planning. You blockheads don't think of anyone else but yourselves, yet you speak as if you're doing this for the good of other people that you have no business imposing your ideology upon.

Also

>>33163938
>I am very likely the only true technocrat on reddit
>Technocrat
>Only "true technocrat"
>on reddit

Fucking lol'd

>>33169802
Lol, he actually thinks he and his little bureaucrat bum bandits are more knowledgeable and qualified than people who actually study their field.

This is the reason why your 'utopia' is nothing more than autistic renders.

>>33169886
I didn't mention you eggheads, so don't worry.

>>33169792
this.

Love these threads though. every persons utopia reflects so much about their own fears about the world around them, it's the ultimate thread to witness projection.

Look at this shit:

>So, you think a voluntary class of experts who dedicate their labor to civil service because they are passionate about scientific and social progress are comparable to a bunch of fucking debt ridden children who chose STEM because of muh career prospects?

This nigga thinks that a few hours of looking shit up on the internet would make him a better technocrat than people with actual education and skills because muh dedication to science.
Qualifications: Doesn't into skool cuz of dets, also dedikated 2 sciences n shit.

I love this shit.

>>33169573
You hate the international style, just like anyone with taste. glass towers a shit. But plenty of skyscrapers actually do have lovely decoration carved into the stone.

>>33164154

>admits he is everything anon implied
>calls ad hom

>>33169962
>people who actually study their field.

Yes, these would be the people who manage the productive forces in that field you fucking cunt lipped faggot.

Read my posts again since you're so fucking stupid. These debt-ridden children are in no way comparable to experts who are removed of the profit motive and having to suck capitalist cock for lab funding.

See, the fact is, you fucking retards DON'T actually understand academia or the economic and social pressures that fuck up actual progress.

You really have no goddamn idea, but you think you do.

You are, in fact, completely fucking oblivious.

>>33170021
His knowledge of science will be pop-sci articles on reddit and masturbatory fantasies about licking the smegma of Dawkin's bellend whilst tipping his fedora into his ass.

You can smell the banana on him.

>>33170021

>This nigga thinks that a few hours of looking shit up on the internet would make him a better technocrat than people with actual education and skills because muh dedication to science.

>having no reading comprehension and being a worthless nigger.

>/pol/ in a nutshell

>>33170189
>experts

Keep going.

>>33169955
>The only reason why any of you support these ideas is because you do so with the premise of YOU being on top and YOU making all the planning.

Anyone arguing for his own ideology can get the same logic applied to him.

Your argument is shit

>>33170242
Didn't prove me wrong though.

That one kid I quoted is just one of many saying dumb shit, just read the thread I promise it'll be hilarious.

>>33169792
lel, Venus Project is actually a fringe UN technocratic communist trap. Jack Fresco is a self proclaimed inventor who has invented nothing, the massive bureaucracy of the UN world government apparatus greases his wheels as he pitches totalitarian dictatorships to x,y and z for the elite.

Utopia might be possible, but you are nuts if you think someone else is going to build it for you. Even organized religion wouldn't attempt to push that bullshit, they stick to rewards in the afterlife.

>>33169095
Seriously. Answer this question.

Nobody will want to put money into this. The only way you will get funding is at gunpoint and you know it.

>>33170295

I didn't say what you read though, see how that works, dumbass?

You're a fucking idiot and misconstrued that what I was saying is that technocrats are some other class of people than trained experts in any given field.

No, you dumb fucking nigger. What I actually said, in plain fucking English, is that a bunch of desperate academics who have to suck capitalist cock their whole lives just to get a little funding for their pet projects is in no way comparable to a class of educated experts that are more than just debt ridden grant slaves to government contracts and industry biases.

Fuck you're a bunch of goddamn retards /pol/

What a fucking cesspool of human minds.

>>33170389
>Jack Fresco is a self proclaimed inventor who has invented nothing

The best thing about it is his house. For someone who claims to be an inventor and architect of the future of humanity it is hilarious. It's a fucking tiny dome for no reason with an ageing CRT tv and outside he has a small veg garden with 0 forms of technology installed to do anything like irrigation, let alone this fantasy where it's all produced while he sits on his ass and defrauds communists or touches boys or whatever he does when he isn't suffering autism in blender.

>>33170570
You still haven't explained how they became experts.

>>33170464
People are buying his books, DVDs and donating to the project

Shill harder faggot

>>33170570
You're still not proving me wrong.

>Fuck you're a bunch of goddamn retards /pol/
If a group of people who think you're retarded makes everyone retarded, then you must really feel like a genius in a world of autists lol.

I don't envy you, buddy. I hope some day someone realizes your "genius" and fully understands all of your "amazing" ideas, but as of now maybe you should learn to conclude that when the majority thinks you're the idiot....you're probably the idiot.

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>>33170630

Ok anon, use your pathetic excuse for a collection of neurons and synapses and tell me what you imagine in your shitbrain results in people becoming experts and how they would go about accomplishing that.

The product of your pathetic attempt at cognitive effort is pretty likely to come up with something resembling what happens when a layman wants to become an expert in any given thing.

Congratulations, you may have formed a new synaptic connection, bringing your grand total up to about 5.

You might be able to do simple arithmetic soon. I'm so exited for you, anon.

>>33170713
>VP balance sheet: $128
>Next stop, Utopia!

>>33170713
So he will fund a trillion dollar project through kickstarter or? Where can I donate, I got 2 dollars laying around.

>>33170755

>implying democracy is relevant to intelligence
>being this pleb tier of a person

>>33170770
So you can't answer basic questions without getting sand in your vagina (lol remember when you said "in a technocracy the technocrats aren't petty little dipshits like yourself") yet believe you have the workings of a new system for humanity?

top kek

>>33161207

Just more proof that Communists are either children, stupid, or autistic.

Magical thinking, no acceptance of past results, fitting everyone in a neat box w/defined outcomes...even these geometric patterns devoid of life or any reality.

Anyone in this day and age that is a Communist is on the autistic spectrum.

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>>33170790
http://www.thevenusproject.com/donate

>>33170790
>Needs $100 from every human on the planet.
>You donate $2.
Yeah this is definitely happening.

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>>33170770
>all this dribble

>>33161207
Your utopian ideal, like all utopian ideals, will fail.

>>33170954
But if no one tells me I'm free then how will I know? I'm not a political scientist, I can't look at something and say 'Yup, its free'.

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>>33161207
This thread is what you get when you need to start up a thread on technocracy / new socioeconomic concepts with TVP and a communism flag.

Why don't you start with the concept of an RBE or Buckminster Fuller's world game ? TVP made some good starts with the basic(!) idea it but failed with anything beyond it, TZM and P2PF have taken it from there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhSgCsD_x8

I'm the only real technocrat
I'm the only one I know
I'm the only real technocrat
In my sub-reddit

>>33169275
Other than distant boogeymen which are always "just a few years away!!!!" how has capitalism failed?

>>33170954
>no one has to tell you that you're free
>except jacque fresco

>>33171047

All this RBE shitfest makes my technocrat heart hurt.

Fuck you zeitgeist and venus people are so goddamn retarded. As if you aren't just a bunch of Green Party faggots with an over-developed fetish for Apple products.

>>33171088

>failed
>past participle
>this much reading comprehension on /pol/

I said failing. Failing, fucker. As in, in the process of reaching failure. Meaning, not having yet failed.

>>33171193

They are autistic. Look at their designs for buildings, the symmetry; not to mention their binary way of thinking, refusal to look at any empirical evidence.

Correlation of Communists to /mlp: near 100%

Autism.

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>>33171314
>all of this butthurt

>ITT: # of communist cunts left to rek - 0

>>33163938 >>33171193 Hurr durr I'm the only true technocrat. True true pure technocrat!1 Also you're stupid greens #rekt

Seriously get the fuck back to your subreddit.

>>33171357

He's right. Everything about or related to zeitgeist and venus project is moronic. They wear scientific makeup and pay lipservice to scientific principles and then ignore everything scientific that conflicts with their dumbass worldview.

>>33171455

>implying they be a bunch of basic bitches
>being entirely correct

>>33171455 First of all TZM and Venus Project aren't the same thing at all. Then name "everything scientific" that conflicts with their worldview instead of shitposting.
Also TZM isn't a view as static as you make it out to be, and I'm pretty sure you haven't even read into the orientation book which roughly outlines it.

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The Future of Socialism is a Libertarian one. Chomskysque but not exactly as Chomsky described it.
The state facilitating develoment and progress. Not controlling development outright nor letting private interests outweigh the greater good.

>>33171618

Fuck, I don't even know where to start.

I guess we should go all the way back to Zeitgeists origins and how pretty much everything that's ever come out of Peter Joseph's mouth has been pure and utter bullshit.

I hate to push fallacy of composition, but TZM is essentially Joseph capitalizing on the pent up rage of all his retarded followers who sipped up his conspiritard cum from Zeitgeist: The Movie. I'm not addressing any particular feature of TZM so I'm not winning an argument here, but I AM pointing out why the argument isn't really even worthwhile to engage in.

And going along with pointing out logical fallacies, asking me to refute which parts of TZM are lacking scientific validity is essentially asking me to prove a negative. There is nothing scientific in TZM. It is all a bunch of popsci bullshit with a fancy Apple iPod shell slapped on.

>>33172174
Zetigeist is propaganda.

There is no Economic model to support it's assertions

Now I don't anything about politics, political theory, political philosophy, geo-politics, realpolitik, classical economics, neo-classical economics, marxist economics, market economics, command economics, resource distribution and management, supply chains, physical science, biological science, chemical science, computer science, materials science, materials engineering, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, nuclear engineering, mechatronics, artificial intelligence, networking, medical engineering, medical science, large scale database design, architectural design, construction, civic planning, civic engineering, eco-system design, sustainable development, water and waste management, agricultural practises, history, law or indeed human psychology...

But I think socialism would work, if only it had more robots.

>>33172246

No economic model?

What? You mean technology doesn't just make everything available to everyone everywhere living in super pretty futuristic cities made of the whitest alabaster from an angel's penis?

Say it isn't so.

>technocrat who shits on RBE

>>33172323

>RBE belibers in a nutshell

Bravo.

>>33168836
How can you be idiot enough to say something that was not tested in reality is "the only way to solve"?

I can agree that most of what you say are good ways to try, but its annoying and deluded to think they will work 100%, because reality is a little bit complex, you know?

>>33161993
you forgot non agression

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>central planning

inb4 muh truncated frames

>>33161207
snot gonna happen till population reduction to a billion

>>33172444
No it doesn't.

Also the Venus project takes nothing from our previous society that has been proven to work. It seems to have thrown everything out in typical Marxist fashion ala Mao's Great Leap Forward.

>>33171867 Maybe post some further explanation of how that could come about and so on ?!
>>33172246 "is propaganda" do you even know what propaganda is besides out of movies ? And their version of an RBE is the economic model. Or did you mean a realized economic model ? For the latter: it's still developing.

Got to go off now.

>>33172174
>how pretty much everything that's ever come out of Peter Joseph's mouth has been pure and utter bullshit.
Good point!

>TZM is essentially Joseph capitalizing on the pent up rage of all his retarded followers who sipped up his conspiritard cum from Zeitgeist: The Movie
You're still not addressing the actual content of it. Instead you're just bitching about the way many get into contact with the movement.
>so I'm not winning an argument here
Indeed, so why even post it ? Also you could apply this to most movements & views in some way as in critizing the way newfag kiddies get to it.
>but I AM pointing out why the argument isn't really even worthwhile to engage in
Just by saying so you aren't doing it. Why isn't the argument even worthwhile to begin with besides your assumption that you don't have to because of what you think of the "movement's origin" ?

>And going along with pointing out logical fallacies
Where did you start with that ?

>There is nothing scientific in TZM.
It's not a theory on quantum gravity or on origin of species. It's a view that values scientific validity, the use of technology and sustainability - especially through the formerly named etc.

----

Good job quibbling around an actual worthwhile response.

>>33172659
Malthusian scarcity a poor paradigm to live in.

Society is wasteful however; we don't necessarily need to do with out. Capitalism will fail for the same reason Communism did; inefficency. The problem is there isn't anything to replace it with.

>>33173005
>Or did you mean a realized economic model ? For the latter: it's still developing.

So Fresco's idea is half baked and half cocked?

>>33161207
a RBE is a neat idea, except it's NOT socialism according to it's founder.
Anyways, it's logically and theoretically applicable but it needs a response from the population and that response is pretty much non-attainable without real need in the mind of the people they need to feel the failure of their system first, and that's pretty much what is holding the majority of the people to take this seriously, i am obviously not talking about the political groups and so on, those just need to inform themselves more.

>>33173275
RBE is central planning and central control using Technology.

>>33173494
>socialism
>not workers dictatorship

>>33173240 I was speaking about TZM's RBE. TVP's approach is ridicolous beyond the most basic idea - mainly because(!) they are way too much into the details and apparently think in terms of a sudden "revolution" to a detailish pre-planned "utopia" that would be "possible right now if we just wanted to". For better understanding of what I mean here: do you think someone planned capitalism in detail and all we did back then was saying "hey that looks good" and realized it? But again I got to go off.

>>33173674
>workers dictatorship
>proletarian dictatorship

Communisim for the Macbook Generation

>>33173929
OK. i have to explain this.
>using technology
this implies that there are certain people with agendas controlling shit, the approach is purely technical no opinion or political views imposed because our problems aren't political they are technical, and you know of course technicians don't vote for a way of designing or repairing shit they use the known experimental data.

>>33174282
You are so wonderfully childishly naive.

>>33174343
>counter argument
But i think it was kinda my bad, the post was oversimplified, and that's because i wont write down all the sides that might concern you anon. but TZM have an extensive orientation that pretty much covers most of the views, so if you really want a respectfully mature material go read.

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>>33165084

>communism never existed

Is that what you communists tell yourself at night?

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>>33165650
>It's clean, it's beautiful. it's efficient in the longterm
It's also not real.

You could've at least been smart enough to post something like Zhengzhou (pic related) which is actually building with green spaces in mind.

But then again, you also seem to think China is actually a communist country.

>>33169887

>China can't succeed in any meaningful way

China is fucking insane when it comes to actually building things. Over the last years that I've been to China on business trips they've added subway systems to cities in which I had to take a shitty bus without air conditioning just 5 years prior. Places like Zhengzhou are actually added a lot more green spaces to their cities because they know they fucked up in the past (see Zhengzhou Greenland Plaza).

>>33169057
>it's not allowed because if people were allowed to rise above their station our delusions of neoeden would be destroyed

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>mfw this thread is always people arguing about something with nothing to do with the shitty idea that op has

Sup Agenda 21, Capitol idea
:^^^^^^)