Daily reminder that humans are trashing ecosystems all over the

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Old Growth Forest anybody?

Better head out west!

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I sure like what we've done with the place!

Mind if I dump my oil here for a sec... or ya know... three months?

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>>31426500

>dat file limit

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Boy, is there a trash-can around here?

Don't worry, I'm sure we can shoot it all into outer space someday.

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Picture-perfect now that we got this big old anaconda slewing oil across the horizon.

>>31426349
How else could we provide a decent quality of life?
The environment will always take a hit.

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>>31426641

It only has so many hits to take... One more won't hurt... r-right guys?

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Do people really drink out of this? Oh Jesus...

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It'll grow back though rite?

>>31426686
We have to keep doing it until we manage to get resources from other places, like space. I know it's a shit situation but you aren't offering any solutions.

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I guess we can build mud houses again when we run out...

>>31426791

Proposal:

Stop. Building. And. Making. Shit. We. Don't. Need.

>b-b-but... muh 30 minute hot showers!

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>"A whopping 29,000 of the cheerful, plastic fellows were accidentally ditched on their way from China to America in 1992."

This wouldn't happen if we didn't make rubber ducks in the first place. But those are important so what can ya do?

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Surely this won't cause any problems. One more tree won't hurt right?

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Say, anybody know what's causing this mess anyhow?

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/pol/, you're oddly quiet this evening. Don't you want to help me figure out what's causing all this?

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Let's see here... getting close I think.

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Maybe overpopulation?

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Probably all these God-damn Chinese?

>>31426951
what do you mean?

>>31426980
>>31427001


> In total, the average American consumes five times more energy than the average global citizen, 10 times more than the average Chinese, and nearly 20 times more than the average Indian.
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/810

Maybe not...

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Hmmm... It can't be OUR consumption can it?

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You don't think maybe that we... buy... and... produce too much do you?

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Let's see: supply, demand, production, sales, consumption...

This sounds like something I studied in school.

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AHA!

I've found you!

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What do you want us to do? SHARE?

>>31427060
>10 times more than the average Chinese
>mfw 15 billion Chinese people would consume as much as the current US population

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This is the truth /pol/. The west takes lumber, oil, gems, minerals and coal from the third world.

It builds little products in factories in the second world, handing out some nickels here and there.

Then it sells it in the first.

And you buy it. You buy games, food, cars, clothes, computers, phones, gas, heating, AC, an apartment and a rubber duck.

And none of it makes you any happier. You still stay on the internet for hours. You're fat, lazy, docile and stupidly entertained by cheap crap.

And the meanwhile, 850 million people are trying to scrape by on less than a buck a day.

Then you send them your trash.

>>31426349
What's the haul from a mine like that? I mean goddamn, that's an enormous pit.

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>>31427411
well Tyler Durden, better go blow up some financial districts

Nobody has anything to say about this?

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>>31426349
NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMAN OP.

>>31427411
Seems like a good deal to me

>>31427617

When I'm 65 I'll probably go out spiking trees and setting construction equipment on fire.

In the meanwhile, I'll try to be more constructive.

its called prosperity and good economy

>>31427646
>>31427617

How's sucking on corporate teet and having no sense of pride feel?

>>31427661
like sit on the interwebs and preach to people who dont care? Or believe that humanities ability to continually adapt, evolve and overcome will continue to outpace our consumption

whats your point?

>>31427690

You have an odd grasp of what "prosperity" and "good" mean.

>>31427696
idk, what does being poor feel like?

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>>31427415
>never heard of the Kalgoorlie Super Pit
look closely for the truck in the middle distance.

Its incredible.

>>31427701

This board is a cesspool of overt racism and corporate-funded libertarianism.

Just trying to show people there's another way.

>>31427762
yes there is. its called stagnation. And what seems to be so bad about this overt racism?

>>31427725

I don't know, and I hate to imagine it. It terrifies me to think I could just as easily have awoken in the Congo one March night in 1991.

Like I fucking care about your ecosystems

>>31427796
so you feel for the third world shitholes. Congratulations anon, you have humanity. Now all you need is to be mugged by reality, probably multiple times

>>31426881
>daily reminder that central Amazonia recovered in 100 years

http://phys.org/news/2014-01-combine-terra-preta-statistics-early.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta

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>>31427756
>that manmade canyon will last millions of years

its actually pretty beautiful

>>31427826

>Congratulations anon, you have humanity

implying you don't just subdue yours.

>Now all you need is to be mugged by reality, probably multiple times
I'm confused by what reality you speak of, and what you're implying by this metaphorical mugging.

MUH ECOSYSTEM
MUH OVERPOPULATION

>>31426641

How about people stop being such wasteful faggots who throw everyfuckingthingout instead f living frugally?

>>31427862

thickness is never a quality one should aspire to display

>>31427849

When everything's ugly just change your aesthetics and problem solved, right?

>>31427837

this has fuck all to do with anything

>>31426349
Daily reminder Earth is ours and exploiting it as long as we're not making it unhabitable is fine.

I dont want to sound like a cunt but fuck the earth. The earth has been trying to kill us for millions of years. I hope we rape and trash the fucking planet.

>>31427854
i do subdue mine. Because i know that it does not matter what civilization or group runs the world, it all comes down to taking shit from our planet and making shit we want. My ancestors, and yours im assuming, had the intestinal fortitude to fuck over other competing societies so that you can have the lions share of the planet and its wealth. If they didnt, then we would all be living in Russia tier countries. It would be alot like communism, everyone has the same shit, everyone is miserable, but not as miserable as they could be

>>31427900

>Earth is ours

By "ours" do you mean "less than one fifth of the present human population in year 2014" ?

Because you're going to have to explain that one.

>>31427885
How about you stop being a naive faggot
I heard people saying that libertarianism would take us back to XIX century
Guess what? Communism wants to bring us back into the stone age

>>31427849
Its so big it actually makes its own weather.

Apparently flying over it is dangerous due to the variance in temperature from top to bottom.

From wikipedia:
> 3.5 kilometres long, 1.5 kilometres wide and 570 metres deep.

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>>31427926

You should spend some time in the forest, getting to know your primeval self and the deeper reality that hides beneath all the logos and price tags.

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>>31427913

>>31427928
Fuck off bleeding heart.

>>31427936

Nigga, how the fuck do you get "Communism" from "stop being wasteful faggots... and live frugally."

>>31427928
By ours I mean humanity as whole.
Go fucking hug your trees elsewhere fucking hippie. I want my fast PC parts and warm showers. Oh, and shampoo with addition of your tears.

>>31427980

When rational argument fails, call names.

>>31428002

If you mean "humanity as a whole" then you should probably be taking into account humans who will inhabit the earth after we're dead and humans who live in the southern hemisphere.

>>31427964
cool. we still have to properly value and distribute resources.

>>31427964
I used to live in the city anon. funny enough, it taught me alot about "primeval" people. We are predators, having both endurance and cunning. Nature has spoke to me, and it is cold, dark and unforgiving. Monsoons kill families, blizzards destroy crops, sandstorms and volcanoes bury towns alive. All existence on the planet is competition, and we are one of the most successful species on this planet

>>31428002

Also, you can have warm showers, fast PC, internet and shampoo (complete with my tears) without strip mining, deforestation, starvation, trans-national corporations, tar sands oil and McDonalds.

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>>31427862

>WE DUN NEED TO CARE FOR THE ENVIORNMENT, IT WILL ALL BALANCE OUT

>LOL MAYAN COLLAPSE WHAT'S THAT

>>31428033

I agree. I think this is a task humans can achieve. For fuck's sake we went to the moon. I think we can figure out how to organize resources in a less insane way. Don't you? Perhaps we could use some of our technology. I'm sure we could have some mathematicians armed with high-speed computers have a go at it. Heard of optimization/operations research before? The beautiful thing is you can optimize anything (although presently all we do is maximize profit).

>>31428063
>strip mining, deforestation, starvation, trans-national corporations, tar sands oil and McDonalds

If there wasnt a need for it (or if it wasnt the most efficient way to get what we want), we wouldnt make it. we are kinda practical like that.

>>31428028
>humans who live in the southern hemisphere
Please show me atleast one.

>>31427936

Nobodie's advocating for a return to the stone age, but the inheret wastefulness of our current society is going to kill us.

Why do people have such wasteful ways? Why do people live in fucking suburbs with freshwater ated every day on fucking lawns and gas wasted every day because driving is the only ay around due to no public transportation?

Shit like that is gonna look hilarious as resources continue to decline and people can't afford to waste what we squander

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>>31427969
I fully intend to use every resource at my disposal and every liberty I have to get my race off this planet to seed the stars. I need industry to push technology to do so.

And if you try and stop me I will fucking crush you in the machinery of progress. To hell with you.

>its different therefore its bad

Cry me a river you enviro-mentalists.

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>>31426818

>posting this post from a computer

tippest of toppest of tippity top lellen keks

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>>31428126

>>31428125
And then we go to space.
And then we stripmine asteroids and other planets.
And kill native aliens to steal their gold.
Humanity fuck yeah.

>>31428096

>If there wasnt a need for it (or if it wasnt the most efficient way to get what we want), we wouldnt make it. we are kinda practical like that.

This begs a pretty large discussion. If I had time with you I think I could get you to at least have an honest grasp of what people like me think of capitalism and its sacred efficiency.

Just an example:
I'm about to finish a major in math next semester. One of the things I studied was linear optimization, which uses an incredibly powerful algorithm called the Simplex Method to maximize or minimize a given variable subject to constraints. It's only been around for the last half century or so, and is so powerful because we have computers that can run operations on huge amounts of variables (couldn't do so in the past).

Technological optimization processes like these are independent of economic system. The only thing that would change is what variable you're optimizing (say, water per person instead of profit). There are many other things like this.

Efficiency in production is much more a result of technological-mathematical techniques than profit motive. Even if they were created as a result of profit motive, they can't be undiscovered and can easily be adapted to a non-profit based system.

>>31426881

>original forest cover.

No, the original forest cover is from before trees even existed. That is what original means.

>>31428145

Humans are part of earth's ecological processes and are dependent on them in a huge variety of ways. If you're suggesting that ecology is independent of human concern, you're out of your mind.

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>>31428126

>>31427411

Good. Better me than those other guys.

>>31428099

I'll anticipate your "humor" and point to Australia and New Zealand.

I bet you think you're soooo clever.

>>31428291
Okay, show me a human in Australia or New Zealand.

>>31428126

le upboat

>>31428161

If there was an alternative system of global economic "organization" for me to participate in, then I would probably chose to do so.

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>>31428305

>>31428126
Didn't that guy die?

>>31428214
You are essentially talking about rationing for the common good of humanity.

what you are not grasping is a couple minor details

>Humanity hates each other
>Humans have greed. If it is even conceivable to have it, men will die to get it.
>Rational individuals like yourself are not immune from the same weaknesses that plague man, unless of course you have trained your spirit and mind for quite some time
>If you take humans all out of the equation and rule humanity via AI, you have essentially reduced people to sheep, with the computer as a shepherd

>>31428331

Everyone does anon. Everyone does.

>>31428126

Do you have a "Don't Tread on Me" flag in your room?

If no, then you can make an intelligent market decision and just write "I'm a retard who doesn't like reading" on your wall with a sharpie.

>>31428342

But dude. If everyone just followed my perfect system to the letter then all the world's problems will be solved! You just don't geeeeet it.

>>31428165

Or rather we run out of Gas and water and food and the world turns into a Peter watts book right quick

>>31428352

What the hell is this word salad of leftist insults even trying to >imply?

>>31427411

>This is the truth /pol/. The west takes lumber, oil, gems, minerals and coal from the third world.

The third world is a corrupt shithole that doesn't respect property rights. If their resources weren't nationalized, their owners could refuse to sell them if they thought they were getting a raw deal. Either way, we are certainly not "taking" them.

>It builds little products in factories in the second world, handing out some nickels here and there.

The alternative being prostitution, crime, or subsistence farming. The western sweatshops pay more than what they would otherwise get.

>And none of it makes you any happier.

[citation needed]

>And the meanwhile, 850 million people are trying to scrape by on less than a buck a day.

And if we redistributed the worlds wealth, they'd all get maybe $100 or even $1000 -- once. See how productive the world gets when the entirety of your labor is sent to billions of third worlders.

>Then you send them your trash.

Which, again, we either pay them for or their corrupt governments allow.

>>31428342
>greed
>bad

pick one

>>31428342

>Humanity hates each other

It would seem that some humans do indeed hate some other humans. I contend this is a problem that can be dealt with, since some humans also like other humans.

>Humans have greed.

Quite true. Some call it "attachment." This can also be dealt with. Communality (do not read: communism) can go a long way towards minimizing greed, as we can easily see in certain pre-industrial systems of social organization.

>Rational individuals like yourself are not immune from the same weaknesses that plague man.

Agreed.

>unless of course you have trained your spirit and mind for quite some time

So you agree with my response to point two.

>If you take humans all out of the equation and rule humanity via AI

I don't advocate this. Technology can be used to help, in much the same way its used to help capitalism along.

>>31426641
shows how lost you are when you believe material possessions provide a decent quality of life. All you are going to realise is you need more possessions. Chase that fantasy bro and tell me im right when you are on your death bed

All right, let's get this started.

> uses computer and internet
> has uninterrupted electricity
> cheap, clean water, food, and entertainment
> bitches at the system that made it all available

It's like a rebellious teenage tantrum, but wrapped in ideology.

>>31428402
>Run out of gas
Impossible. We have alternatives, big oil companies just won't permit them now.
>run out of water
Impossible, until catastrophic event happens, and then we can filter and distill it.
>run out of food
Also impossible until catastrophic event happens, like volcano causing volcanic winter, which is completely not our fault.

>>31428125
How do you get rid of the wastefullness? By having a planned economy and forcing people not to be wasteful? Good luck with that you utopian faggot

>>31427762
Honestly it just seems like you're jerking yourself off. You don't seem all that interested in convincing people, just being a smug cunt.

>>31428407

That you're a retard who doesn't like to read. I thought it was funny.

>>31428374

Hardly. I understand the world is complicated and that designing an alternative system would not even come close to utopia. My goal here is not utopia so much as averting the destruction of our species and or planet.

Blame the left to this. They're the ones pushing MUH CONSUMER DEMAND as a cure-all for everything.

HEAR THAT KRUGMAN YOU FAGGOT?

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ITT: we pretend that land rehabilitation doesn't exist.
Pc related, this used to be 600 ha of shit like this>>31426470

>>31428476

It must be difficult carrying all this weight on your shoulders while spreading truth and gospel among people who will likely never comprehend it.

>>31428457
>Impossible. We have alternatives, big oil companies just won't permit them now.

Prove it

>then we can filter and distill it

Too fucking expensive

>Also impossible until catastrophic event happens

Like how were running low on fucking phosphorous to fertilize the fields?

>>31428475

>You don't seem all that interested in convincing people, just being a smug cunt.

I answer in like kind is all. Guilty as charged for egotistical mental jerk off. I can be more serious if you guys would like but please don't just post "MUH X" and expect a decent response.

>>31428458
>How do you get rid of the wastefullness?

Either a fundamental change in culture or a planned economy

>>31428522
>run out of fresh drinking water
>thinks cost of a alternative will matter at this point

>>31428501

It's difficult yes, but not nearly as difficult as being a resident of, say, a Rio slum.

>>31428456

The messenger might be ugly, but I assure you the message is far worse.

>>31428442
>It would seem that some humans do indeed hate some other humans. I contend this is a problem that can be dealt with, since some humans also like other humans.

We like each others women, money, and food. in that order. What in human history supports you in your move to pacify a species of super-predators?

>Quite true. Some call it "attachment." This can also be dealt with. Communality (do not read: communism) can go a long way towards minimizing greed, as we can easily see in certain pre-industrial systems of social organization.

Industrialization was a pandora's box. You can't put it back in. You may somehow minimize greed. However, there will always be the ambitious and slightly sociopathic that could not care. What shall you do with them? And rationing does not work long. People want what they know they can have.

And finally, you have a lack of leadership in your system. Please solve. If AI is not in your equation, and you accept that men, are by nature, flawed, then what is your solution

>>31428476
> I think my jokes are funny!
> I think my ideas are right!

If your rationale is literally "I agree with myself", then you're either a piss poor commenter or missing an AUTISMPILL dose.

>>31428448
>shows how lost you are when you believe material possessions provide a decent quality of life.
the average person today is better off than a king from 200 years ago.

technology makes life easier for everyone of us, that comes at a cost

>>31426349

Coming to this thread caus OP's pic gave me a boner.

Fuck that's beautiful.

>>31428556
Wow, that's such a worldly observation. The rio slums and tibet are some of the most honest and down to earth people around.

>>31428522
Phosphorous isn't necessary to fertilize the land.
You can use animal shit or even your own.
Or you know, you could not grow anything for a year on that plot of land to let it recover?

>>31428549
So force a change in culture, violating a humans in-born freedom to choose

OR

Violate a humans freedom to choose directly

You really should go into business anon. you have the smug ambition to be a good CEO

>>31426349
> stony crags now have a rounder, deeper hole

Okay...

>>31428558

>We like each others women, money, and food. in that order. What in human history supports you in your move to pacify a species of super-predators?

I take inspiration from communal organizations which have existed in the past and currently exist. Voluntary self-sufficient communes can clearly exist in small-scale societies, and horizontal industrial organization can probably be applied seamlessly to large scale urban environments. The Paris Commune is an example of the latter, with Mondragon serving as a better modern approximation to horizontal organization in industry.

>And finally, you have a lack of leadership in your system.

Consensus organized along the lines of representative democracy seems like a good place to start, although I don't envision some kind of massive "World Council" to run the show. Ideally we would have smaller communities spread about which are self-sufficient and self-organizing. This would also allow for a variety of social configurations that cater to the varying personalities of individuals. Naturally, it would be crucial for each of these communities to interact nonviolently (do not read: all hunky dory perfect).

>>31428623
Actually recent outbreaks from tainted produce is from fecal contamination either during fertilizing or picking.

So how about no?

>>31428585

No shit I agree with myself, and I pity anyone who doesn't (agree with themselves).

>>31428622

what?

>>31428647

I think most people can see the ugliness in that picture, but it's not merely an aesthetic issue, it's primarily ecological.

>>31426349
>BUT MUH ENVIRONMENT
>BUT MUH RAINBOW COLORED FAGGOTRY

Keep stuffing those 100% organic salads up your asshole, you green faggot.

Meanwhile in reality:

America has a net gain in forested land.
Population growth is stagnant and even negative in the first world.
Carbon output and pollution is down per capita.
OP is still a faggot repeating '80s eco-mantra.

>>31428703

I eat with my mouth and shit out of my asshole... unlike some people.

>>31428688
Yeah, barren rocks now looks like a 1990s video game. Such a tragedy. I guess by this logic we need to ban shitting or surgery as well. It might creep some delicate snowflakes out.

>>31428785

Obviously a single instance of mining, even on such a massive scale, is not going to destroy the earth. It's the aggregate of many such mines that becomes a systemic problem. Hence the other pictures.

>>31428653
You espouse self sufficiency. Great. You are missing that most industrial or post-industrial societies are not self-sufficient and must move surplus supplies to poorer regions of the world and obtain raw material from other regions.

So while we all go back to your Luddite 1700s world commune, there will be riots of people who do not want to raise horses and want their car. Or the company that needs to move 100 metric tons of iron ore to refinery via horrible trains or even worse, diesel trucks.

>Consensus organized along the lines of representative democracy seems like a good place to start, although I don't envision some kind of massive "World Council" to run the show. Ideally we would have smaller communities spread about which are self-sufficient and self-organizing. This would also allow for a variety of social configurations that cater to the varying personalities of individuals. Naturally, it would be crucial for each of these communities to interact nonviolently.

You do understand that you would be repeating history correct?
>town A has widget town B wants
>town A wants _____ bushels of wheat for widget
>town B cannot or will not trade said bushels for widget.

Now either town A grows more economically powerful and eventually absorbs town B, or town B uses force to things from town A.

Either way, you have the makings of a pseudo empire

>>31428549
See? Green or commie there's no difference
The greens want to sacrifice the well-being of millions of people and the advances of technology because "muh planet"
The commies want to sacrifice the well-being of millions of people and the advances of technology because "muh greed"

I assure you that when we really run out of some resource because of the "inherent wastefulness" it will be the evil greedy capitalists that will progress us forward, not the government. If we only have solar power left it will be the evil capitalists that will make more efficent solar panels.

You can't have a planned economy because you can't have 100% information, you can't control every possible variable and you can't predict everything. That's why planned economy moves us backwards, not forwards - it only relies on what we know now and not on what could happen.

A free market economy moves seemingly chaotically but it's always a steady progress because the more efficent solutions win.

>>31428719

That is indeed a slice of reality. But you can't cherry pick!

Has a certain amount of material prosperity coincided with all this environmental destruction? Clearly, although I think this is generally overrated since it doesn't seem to bring humans happiness (I'm talking about McDonalds and Toys R Us, not hospitals. Yes, you can have one without the other.)

Carbon output and pollution per capita has never been the issue. The earth's atmosphere doesn't increase in size with babies born, ya big dummy.

>>31427307

Okay. Let's say, for the purpose of comparison, US citizen consumes 1 Watt/hour, while Chinese Citizen consumes 0.1 Watt/hour.

1.5 billion Chinese consume 150 Million Watt/hours

300 Million US consume 300 Million Watt/Hours (twice more than Chinese pop).

15 Billion Chinese would consume ~1.5 Billion Watt/hours, or 5 times more than the current US pop.

Maths ? Hardly.

Arithmetics ? Very yes.

>>31428842

I cannot have all the answers, and don't profess to. I have ideas, so do many others.

But I have come to realize two important points which capitalists always miss.

1. Global capitalism cannot continue indefinitely
2. Alternative systems exist, and there's good evidence to suggest they are better for all manner of reasons.

I agree the imperialist problem is a problem, and have wrestled with it myself. This is why I think humanity's economic problems are reflective of a deeper problem regarding our understanding of what the purpose of life is. Presently we organize around material prosperity of a minority as the end all be all, but I think a moderate amount of material prosperity for all + creativity and community are better goals to organize around.

>>31428896
forced population control? interesting.

Shall it be even across the board?
>stagnation as populations do not move

By race?
>eventually one will outnumber the other, and you have essentially decreased human biodiversity

by usefulness to the global economy?
>one does not need many negros to farm africa when machines will do it fine, leading to decrease in human biodiversity

which is it OP

>>31428969

I never said anything about forced population control and I don't talk about race on /pol/ because talking about race on /pol/ is like talking about particle physics on /b/.

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>>31427411
Why don't you go Shrek yourself?

Overpopulation is a myth, OP is a faggot.

>>31429027

I'll go "Shrek" myself as soon as you say something which hints that you are a human being and not an algorithm.

>>31426349

The thing that irritates me most about this thread is how retards against the environment act as if we all have to suddenly become communist primals in order to live sustainably.

Buying locally-grown food, making things last longer, gently curbing overpopulation (Already largely done in the West), and continuing to research newer, more efficient technologies for producing all the goodies we love and enjoy would go a long way in helping us to attain that sustainability. I'm sure some retards like to equate that with going back to the stone age, but they're just that: Retards.

For those interesting in reaching the stars: It's not gonna happen if everything goes to shit here on Earth and vicious wars over dwindling resources bring any and all space exploration to a screeching halt.

Really, growth plain and simply cannot continue forever, we need to look at maintaining what we already have until we've got the means to actually colonize said stars. If that means having to go through the bother of patching up your jeans instead of throwing them out, toughen up buttercup and do it.

I see the Green party Stalinists have made a thread.

>>31429041

The gist of this thread is not overpopulation.

This is the gist of the thread:
>>31427411

>>31428947
>Global capitalism cannot continue indefinitely

it wont. like a bacteria, it evolves to its environment. It will be some form of capitalism im sure, but nothing like today. Your grandkids will not understand the economics of today

>This is why I think humanity's economic problems are reflective of a deeper problem regarding our understanding of what the purpose of life is. Presently we organize around material prosperity of a minority as the end all be all, but I think a moderate amount of material prosperity for all + creativity and community are better goals to organize around.

so a world philosophy/religion. And the dissenters and heretics and apostates? what shall we do with them?

you are so enamored with equality, you would rather live as a slave among equals than try to be free among the unequal.

Man was created equal to other men. He becomes unequal by manifesting genetics, opportunity, education, culture, ambition and luck. Equality is for children

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>>31429083

>Green party Stalinists

>>31429082
>For those interesting in going across the oceans: It's not gonna happen if everything goes to shit here in Europe and vicious wars over dwindling resources bring any and all world exploration to a screeching halt.

as long as humanity is divided, warring and competing, we stand a chance

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Alright, listen here fuck face because I'm only going to say this once. The only reason the world isn't a massive insufferable shithole where everyone either dies or spends weeks looking for food is because of rampant industrialization. Without industry you wouldn't have plumbing, transport, machinery, the internet blah blah blah you know the deal.

Most importantly you wouldn't have food. Modern machinery and farming practices make it possible for the majority of the world to have a good chance of receiving a meal today. Farm machinery allows small family farms to produce massive yield from THOUSANDS of acres. Transport systems allow the safe transport of that food to processing facilities, or boats for export. For as many people as there are starving in africa/india/china how many of them would be outright dead if it wasn't for the millions of tons of food aid that ships, rail, road and aircraft deliver? All of that shit doesn't just get wished out of the sky with liberal wizard magic, it needs industry to be accomplished.

By all means go live innawoods and hunt your own food with sticks and spears, just don't cut down a tree or exploit that precious creature to make something like living more bearable, you fucking ingrate.
It's easy to call industry an environmental bogeyman when your stomach is full and militants aren't trying to steal the only food you've come across in weeks.

>>31429082
>For those interesting in reaching the stars: It's not gonna happen if everything goes to shit here on Earth and vicious wars over dwindling resources bring any and all space exploration to a screeching halt.

We could already be exploring the stars if it wasn't for your socialist bullshit which brought US and EU to stagnation.

>>31429136

Are you really equating sailing across the ocean with being able to colonize and mine asteroids and other planets?

Thank you Jews!

>>31429094

>it wont. like a bacteria, it evolves to its environment.

Then why not direct that evolution towards a more logical end?

> It will be some form of capitalism im sure, but nothing like today.

It will be a post-apocalyptic nightmare if people don't let go of their faith-like devotion to capitalism.

>Your grandkids will not understand the economics of today

Seems like my grandkids won't be too different from my contemporaries.

>so a world philosophy/religion.

absolutely not.

>you are so enamored with equality,

Not at all really. I'm okay with yachts and mansions. Just not yachts and mansions coexisting with dire poverty and starvation.

>>31429167

Who said anything about socialism? Retard. Being efficient with our resources can happen under any system.

>>31429156

Industrialization is great. We just need to figure out how to optimize the system better.

>>31429182
to a person in the 1500s? yep
>huge start up costs
>alot of variables, most unknown
>payoff uncertain

>>31429156

This is probably the 1000th time I've heard this argument. Supposing you're completely correct and that all technological innovation is due to capitalism (although many a humanist scientist might take offense to this idea), I don't see why that precludes the possibility of redirecting the useage of such infrastructure and innovation towards more humanist ideals.

Computers, internet, plumbing and industrial production aren't going to be "un-invented" just because we change our economic system.

Finally, we produce, if I recall correctly, roughly 7 times as much calories as are necessary to feed every man, woman and child on Earth a nutritionally balanced diet.

Most of this goes toward making Americans fat and filling up landfills with half-eaten burgers and rotten vegetables.

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You're making these fat, lazy pieces of shit uncomfortable.

>>31429242

Baby's first debate lessons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

Try again. 1500s Europe and the modern world are dramatically different, or perhaps you were unaware?

>>31429242

Escape velocity and the energy required to achieve it place a bit of an upper bound on humanity's stellar aspirations.

>>31429194
>Then why not direct that evolution towards a more logical end?

Do you know what the future holds? if not, it will evolve to be more efficient on its own that you holding its hand

>It will be a post-apocalyptic nightmare if people don't let go of their faith-like devotion to capitalism

because it gets people the shit they want, and fast

>I'm okay with yachts and mansions. Just not yachts and mansions coexisting with dire poverty and starvation

Opportunity costs meets global economy. more people live more productive lives by selling yachts with finite resources than feeding African hordes. Its cruel, its probably a sin, but its the numbers

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>Daily reminder that Jews are trashing ecosystems all over the world to build more shopping malls to sell more useless shit.

FTFY.

You should really see the kind of backlash I get as a Jew hating environmentalist though.

>>31429298
You are doubting the ingenuity of the greatest predator this planet has created. I would laugh at you if you werent part of the species you are referencing

>>31429287
nice buzzword. you get it off the sticky or wikipedia?

>>31429194
>Then why not direct that evolution towards a more logical end?
Directing evolution is halting it. You can't plan evolution. You can't plan progress. You can't predict the future
Albert Einstein is not the result of central planning. Every single advance in technology is not the result of central planning because central planning can't predict advances in technology

>>31429210
it's already been happening. Competition breeds better bottom lines and better products. You will never find a single CEO that doesn't want to produce their product faster, cheaper or more efficiently.

The trick is enough regulation to promote multiple companies but not so much regulation where those companies conspire together to hurt the consumer. For it to work you have to keep competition alive

>>31426349


Guess all those forests I plant mean nothing then. Least in civilized countries they're not fucking up. All the more reason to keep filthy third worlders out.

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>>31429264

Tell me, what is stopping you from going around to restaurants, movie theaters, and supermarkets, collecting all the food they plan to throw away, and distributing it to poor African children?

If your answer was "the Atlantic ocean" then you might not be retarded. If your answer is "Republicans", then I have some bad news for you...

>>31429362

I noticed you've yet to produce an actual argument here. Gotta love retards!

>>31429307

>Do you know what the future holds? if not, it will evolve to be more efficient on its own that you holding its hand

It always staggers me when people think that the human race will achieve more without trying than with trying.

In this regard, capitalism takes on the role of a deity. You don't have to do anything to try and make the world better because you can rest assured capitalism is already doing it. At the end of the day, I think it's a cop-out and a shitty excuse to justify a self-centered, petty existence rather than facing hard problems seriously and probing into ourselves to find the motivation to act.

Obviously, I do not know what the future holds. But I think I, and you, and all of us putting our heads together has a much better idea of what the future would, could or should look like than an abstract, non-conscious system of economic organization based on the works of 18th century thinkers.

>Opportunity costs meets global economy. more people live more productive lives by selling yachts with finite resources than feeding African hordes. Its cruel, its probably a sin, but its the numbers.

Go preach trickle down economics to the people of Detroit, or better yet Congo. Tell them that you're sorry that 5 million children die every year from diarrhea when it can be cured for pennies, but you hope yacht-money reaches them in a generation or three. Or ten. Or never. They've been waiting for a few hundred years after all.

>>31429341

I love how /pol/ has all the faith in the world that humanity will colonize the solar system and mine the Kuiper Belt, but finds the notion that ending all starvation at the cost of some 150 billion a year is laughably ridiculous.

>>31429385

Again, this isn't about me. My own hypocrisies and ethical shortfalls are my business in a sense, although I would gladly lean on you my brother that we might help each other do more good.

I love it when it gets to this point though- in a sense, the morality of what I'm trying to say can't be argued against- who can really say no to feeding more mouths or becoming more content with less?

My life is difficult just like yours. I live under this system just like everyone else. I prosper in a sense because of fortunate circumstances at birth (No, I do not feel a drop of "white guilt."), but I'm working on ironing out those hypocrisies in my life just like anyone else who aspires to be better does.

Ya dig? I hope you're doing the same and I wish you the best.

>>31429531
OP you are right. Would friend.

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>>31429453
you have any idea what a $150 billion shot in the arm would do for the space program?

I hope you like round trip access to the moon. and by the moon I mean titan

>>31429418
>It always staggers me when people think that the human race will achieve more without trying than with trying.

summed up a lil more simply than the truth, but kinda. Your system seeks to subdue greed. Capitalism, like a water mill, uses a natural source (human greed) to power it. The only caveat is making sure the flow of natural power is constant. Dam it too much (too much regulation) and your watermill wont turn without your input (stimulus). Let the flood gates go, and the watermill will destroy itself

>
Obviously, I do not know what the future holds. But I think I, and you, and all of us putting our heads together has a much better idea of what the future would, could or should look like than an abstract, non-conscious system of economic organization based on the works of 18th century thinkers

go play God with a fucking bacteria if you want to feel important

>Go preach trickle down economics to the people of Detroit, or better yet Congo. Tell them that you're sorry that 5 million children die every year from diarrhea when it can be cured for pennies, but you hope yacht-money reaches them in a generation or three. Or ten. Or never. They've been waiting for a few hundred years after all

its not trickle down. Straight up, people are starving because CEOs and the middle class want to live like they know they can. But now ask them to give it all up. Because its not your lil 150 billion. There are systemic things in the third world you will have to unfuck, and it will cost trillions. Or just take it from them like the tyrant you always imagined yourself to be.

The people of the Congo would do the same shit in our shoes. Hell, Europe was the laughing stock of the world for a millennia. If they were smarter, they would have taken over and stolen every resource they could have from Europe.

>>31429608

We're it not for capitalism, we could probably end starvation and go to Europa too.

Imagine adding up all the money spent on idiotic trinkets, limousines, Rolex watches, mansions on Long Island... and putting THAT in the space program.

>>31429561

This has never happened to me on a /pol/ thread before. Thank you based anon.

>>31429453
>ending all starvation at the cost of some 150 billion a year is laughably ridiculous
Giving niggers food is destructive to the niggers because now they expect that everyone will send them food instead of figuring out how to make food themselves. If they can't make food themselves let them fucking die. Why should I care? It's their fault that they're idiots. Get out of the fucking desert or let the white man colonize you because it seems that he's smarter than you dumb black shits

>>31428488
that shit is mostly on the taxpayer dime. people pay for the products and the cleanup

>>31429662
imagine killing all the niggers, and putting all foreign aid to the space program

>>31429453
Ending starvation in Africa could be solved by fucking killing off all the niggers.

Meanwhile, humanity could spend those 150 billions on colonizing Mars or researching new technologies.

>>31429662
You're welcome. Would be happy to talk more.

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>>31426881

DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>>31429406
You might be more convincing if you weren't so obnoxious, we don't go to reddit for a reason.

Anyway, if you think things are bad now while white people run everything just wait until America is a hispanic country and continues to do this shit

It'll be okay then right cause they don't know better or they can't oppress cause they're brown or something I don't pretend to understand how you people think

>>31428719
>america has forest gain
good, but the third world losing its forests is the concern now. either way, america is what, 5% of total land?
>pop growth is stagnant in the first world
third world is the problem, and a lot of the first world is still massively overpopulated
>carbon output and pollution is down per capita
but more people total means more total pollution. per capita decline means nothing when total pop increases
>OP is a faggot
kinda. so are you.

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>>31429662
if it were not for capitalism the space program wouldn't have gotten as far as it has.

central planning in communist regimes has it's own problems too.

>>31429757
>third world is the problem
Yell at chinks and niggers to stop deforesting then, not us.

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>>31429792
NO YOU'RE WRONG COMMUNISM IS BEST SYSTEM EVER IT WAS JUST NEVER TRIED AGRHGHAEGHRSGH

>>31429637

Human greed is an irrational force that fuels heroin addictions as much as it fuels deforestation in Brazil. It knows no boundaries and no self-restraint. It takes, takes, takes and needs more, more, more. In a world where all things are finite and there are 7 billion people, this only means death and poverty on a massive scale.

>go play God with a fucking bacteria if you want to feel important

I get the feeling you're less interested in having a conversation than making jabs on the internet. It's okay to be wrong, and I don't mean that in some kind of paternalistic way. A wise man once told me that there is nothing greater than realizing you are wrong. Impossible to say that without sounding full of it but whatever.

>The people of the Congo would do the same shit in our shoes.

I agree. I'm not suggesting we're morally inferior, but the onus of the situation is on us. We live off the blood, sweat and tears of the third world. We owe it to ourselves and to them to right this injustice.

>But now ask them to give it all up. Because its not your lil 150 billion.

I have no problem asking westerners to live more quietly and humbly. I am confident it would make them more happy, less stressed and more aware of the value of community/family/friends/learning/hobbies. One side-effect of capitalism is that it diminishes the value of everything that doesn't create profit, and that includes all of those things.

Finally, I find the idea of ownership as embodied in our legal system to be completely ridiculous. Philosophically, there are just things and people. Ownership is a totally man-made idea that relies on a state to exist.
> If they were smarter, they would have taken over and stolen every resource they could have from Europe.

In the past, people were often less obsessed with power, grandeur and historical reputation than simply living life with family and friends quietly, anonymously and happily. We need more of that and less delusions of grandeur.

>>31429738
and yet, without human intervention that 2005 picture would look much closer to the top picture

you can't argue we've had no effect

>>31429738
I call bullshit. Australia was more forested than that before the Aboriginiggers showed up.

>>31429802
we contribute in other ways, dingus, and buysome of the shit they make with the forests they cut down

>>31429832
Do you have a skype?

>>31429531

That is not your morality. If it were, you would feed people.

You do not feed people. You beg men with guns to point them at people you hate so you can rob them and fulfill your delusional fantasy that you contribute anything at all.

You do this because you know you are worthless. You do this because you know that the very day after your useless corpse is put in the ground you will be forgotten because you did not matter to anyone.

Meanwhile. Henry Ford's name is found in every corner of the world.

Tell me how much you hate men like Henry Ford.

>>31429741

>Complaining about obnoxious people on 4chan.

Lurk moar, newfag. Baby's first 4chan as well, I see.

You're talking about a lot of shit that has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've said in this thread so far. That said, I don't think you pretend to understand much of anything.

>>31429688

Imagine being a starving black child in a world of rich white men who couldn't care less about your stomach pangs or your weeping mother.

>>31429792

I am not an advocate of Soviet-style Communism, nor anything remotely like it. I don't think states are a good idea, generally speaking.

One problem with trying to imagine alternate systems is that our brains already think in, and are deeply attached to, the status quo of our everyday lives.

Often, we accidentally restrict our imagination to the confines of the status quo (ex, imagining the space program couldn't happen without a state because it happened with a state historically).

The whole point of imagining alternatives is to throw out all the old news and start from a blank slate-- what COULD the world look like, or have looked like? Then we can think about how we can get there, or if we can etc. You're free to think for yourself, from the bottom up, anon. That power is extraordinary. Don't waste it clinging to a dead system.

>>31429851

Yes, it was man who beat back the mighty glaciers. With fire we stole from the God's! Just as it was man who built the giant ice wall to keep the fucking Scots in Scotland.

>>31426641
>decent quality of life
enjoy your consumerism and cancer

>>31429886

no but I have email

>>31429895

>oh boy here we go again . jpeg

I'll do the constructive thing and remind myself that the only way to escape this kind of attack is by being more true to what I already know is true.

And I'm not all that into fame and grandeur, to be honest. Old Henry will end up just like the rest of us: a forgotten name on a dead planet in a massive universe with no ultimate meaning and nobody to testify to the fact that you ever existed.

>>31429832
You are operating under the idea that you can control human want. You are right, it is a totally irrational force, it destroys alot. But build infrastructure around it, use it to power society, and it creates as well.

>I agree. I'm not suggesting we're morally inferior, but the onus of the situation is on us. We live off the blood, sweat and tears of the third world. We owe it to ourselves and to them to right this injustice.

the only thing we owe them is the fruit of their labors, and leaving their countries the fuck alone. If they are willing to trade, so be it if we benefit more from the trade than them

>I have no problem asking westerners to live more quietly and humbly. I am confident it would make them more happy, less stressed and more aware of the value of community/family/friends/learning/hobbies. One side-effect of capitalism is that it diminishes the value of everything that doesn't create profit, and that includes all of those things.

But will they oblige? Or will you use force on them to get what you want, becoming exactly what you hate?

>In the past, people were often less obsessed with power, grandeur and historical reputation than simply living life with family and friends quietly, anonymously and happily. We need more of that and less delusions of grandeur.

Who is Genghis Khan? Alexander the Great? Andrew Carnegie? Saladin? Fucking christ OP, history is filled with ambitious men who utilized lesser men to bend the world to an individuals will

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>>31429912

Why don't you get a bunch of like-minded friends together and travel to a lush and fertile part of the world where you can make your alternate system a reality?

>>31429976
get a skype and we can spend hours talking about these things in the future.

We can just reverse the damage if need be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI

I'm not justifying oil spills and shit like that, but simply removing fauna & flora isn't that hard to recover from apparently.

>>31429912
>Imagine being a starving black child in a world of rich white men who couldn't care less about your stomach pangs or your weeping mother.

Imagine being a starving black child who couldnt care less of the immigration problem and the destruction of host countries.

>>31430028

Where da white wimminz at?

>>31429980

Man, you have got to look more closely at history.

The US has done nothing but interfere in any country that might refuse to trade with it. This whole idea of "free trade" between countries (where one has a massive military, a CIA and 7000 nukes, and the other has sticks and AKs) is pure fiction.

Maybe the best single example, just for its irony, is Peru. We instigated a coup to overthrow Allende because he wanted to nationalize Peruvian metal resources and socialize land ownership. And who came in after him? None other than the Prince of Free Markets himself, Milton Friedman, happily dishing out Voluntary Trade to Peruvians under their new American-sponsored dictator, Pinochet.

>>31429912
imagining what could have happened and what has happened are two different things entirely. I have to base my worldview on what has happened and on what works and what doesn't. Anything else is purely the realm of speculation and fantasy until proven otherwise.

>>31430013

>simply removing fauna & flora isn't that hard to recover from apparently.

Old growth forest takes centuries to regenerate, and it can't be done by humans. Ecosystems are extremely delicate and complex, and the effects of removing organisms/habitation has far-reaching consequences, many of which we don't even know yet.

And that's JUST deforestation. When you add in carbon emissions (I'm not getting into that debate in this thread), dams, nuclear waste, oil spills, nitrate fertilizers, over-fishing, soil depletion from industrial agriculture, hydrology damage from pollution and redirecting streams (the list goes on), you have a MAJOR, MAJOR ecological problem on your hands.

And it's way beyond humans to fix.

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>>31430122

Thought it might be about time for this little gem.

>>31426349
Not gonna lie, this looks pretty cool. I wonder how deep we could dig such an open hole. Imagine a 20km deep hole in the middle of a contintental plate.

>>31429897
yeah that's better, we're more receptive to outright aggression than snark, if you were such an oldfag you'd had know that

Anyway, my point is that ideas like yours are specific to an extremely luxurious first world lifestyle, and only people who have what we have would ever even come close to entertaining the idea that we're meant to give shit away. I shouldn't have brought race into it immediately but I hope nobody is gonna pretend that isn't also a factor.

How about this, which is more important, feeding all the niggers or saving the planet?

>>31430070
>the only thing we owe them is the fruit of their labors, and leaving their countries the fuck alone. If they are willing to trade, so be it if we benefit more from the trade than them

apparently you missed that part. Any american should be ashamed for some of the actions done in their name.

And free trade does happen. Country A supplies Country B with timber, minerals etc. Country A gets returned products. Easy peasy.

Where shit fucks up is IMF and food banks give surplus subsistence goods to Country A, essentially putting it on welfare. Country A now has no need to do anything other than be a resource whore for Countries B,C,D and E. All of whom do not actually let Country A self-determination with its trade or even government system

>>31429999

Nice quads, and I plan on living in an intentional service-based community as soon as I finish this god-damned bachelor's degree.

>>31426610
Turn off the lights and unplug the computer then, faggot.

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>>31430174
for a time it's the best one they had until a better one gave them blankets with smallpox and hunted them to near extinction making their system obsolete in the process.

Still doesn't mean it never had important lessons to teach both systems

>>31426349
>>31426373
>>31426470
>>31426635
>>31426661
>>31426686
>>31427756
>>31430243

god damn it... we are like super-sized ants

>>31430217

...and you default on your debt.

You are a parasite. If you don't believe me, go live on The Farm in Tennessee. It's everything you claim to be. There you will learn just how worthless you are as the people who have successfully run that commune for decades kick your sorry ass to the curb.

>>31430282
beautiful isn't it?

Man was not content to simply exist like the rest of the animals. He realized he was the shaper of this world. In doing so he would become it's master until a stronger entity manifests itself.

>>31430210

>Any american should be ashamed for some of the actions done in their name.


>Peru
>Guatemala
>Panama
>Congo
>Nicaragua
>Colombia
>Chile
>Granada
>Vietnam
>Iraq
>Afghanistan
>Philippines
>Cuba
>Laos
>Cambodia
>East Timor
>El Salvador

The list goes on and on... These aren't small exceptions to American diplomacy. They constitute the very backbone of American diplomacy.

Capitalism is intimately tied to state-craft on the international scale. The US military is nothing but a massive mercenary army for protecting the overseas interests of American corporations.

Free trade does not exist on a global scale. You either have parity in terms of power, or you get crushed by our system and play by our rules at gunpoint.

That's the truth, but you're not going to hear it in American History class, not at your high school and not at your university.

It's all there though. Next time you read about a foreign war the US was involved in during the 20th century, see if you can't see that pattern.

Soviet Communism collapsed internally, but global communism was stopped at every point by CIA assassins (see Lamumba and Allende), US Marines and US arms shipments.

>>31430330

My parents are wealthy and are paying for my schooling out of pocket, although I think college tuition is insane and that the "Have fun with your debt" line is generally unsympathetic and disingenuous.

>The Farm in Tenessee

No thanks, I'm more of a Catholic Worker kind of guy.

>>31430380

>My parents are wealthy

And there you have it, folks! Scumbag Marxist is a child of privilege. Boy that white guilt stings, doesn't it? Better REALLY fuck up the world in order to assuage it.

Do me a favor and ask your parents how they made their money and if it doesn't meet your Marxist standards, disown them and their money and learn what being a producer really entails.

Life survived and then thrived after nearly 99.9999999% of it had been wiped out.


>still thinks humanity is going to make even a dent in the grand scheme of things.


"Earth will shake humanity off like a bad case of flees."George Carlin

>>31430361
Hungary, Poland, East Germany, Afghanistan, China, Angola, Rhodesia, Cuba, Romania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Bolivia, Colombia, Angola, Ethiopia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Mozambique.

Communism was no better. Has a higher kill count too

>>31430426

I'm something of a Marxist, yes, although Marxism is a negation of capitalism, not a positivist assertion of an alternative to it. I'm not a Communist, since I'm an anarchist.

There is no such thing as a "Marxist standard" for income, and you sound pretty ignorant when you throw terminology around like that.

I have deep respect for hard work, and wish it wasn't exhausted in the way of procuring stupid wealth so frequently.

>>31430496

No Ukraine? Unlike the Holocaust, the Holodomor actually happened.

>>31430496

100% correct. Chomsky often points this out-- states behave exactly the same way in the international arena regardless of their internal organization or the quality of their propoganda.

Hence why I am opposed to states (at least modern militarized, policed states) in addition to capitalism. In fact, I think statehood and capitalism are inseparable, since private property relies on a system of violent coercion to construct and enforce the legal delineation of who owns what. This may be contrasted with the libertarian "free market" opposition to government, which I think is theoretically primitive and historically unaware.

>>31430514

Yes, there is a "Marxist standard" and it's called "false consciousness" aka "oh no it's not really like that!"

There's a term for you too, dearie: USEFUL IDIOT.

Since you are an ignorant twat, I highly recommend you educate yourself by looking into the fate of the Mensheviks. Here's a hint: there's a guy buried in Mexico by the name of Leo Trotsky with an ice pick in his skull.

>>31430518

heh...

>>31430593

I probably know a great deal more about Mensheviks and Trotsky than you do.

For example, I know that Trotsky was not a Menshevik after the Revolution, and therefore that there is no Menshevik called Trotsky buried in Mexico.

Please tell me more about Marxism and history though, it's kind of cute and entertaining I guess.

>>31430593

That's right bitch.


Any other Nazis or Libertarians of /pol/?

Or shall I claim this thread as another victory for the Good Guys?

>>31426349
you already made a thread faggot and its still here.

>humans are the problem
>humans should let the government tax and murder them more
You don't care about the environment one bit; you care about control. You want the right to kill people, rob them of everything they have while still benefiting from their labor and their minds, and you want to rape the environment even worse than any corporation would by using such alchemy as carbon credits.

Face it: freedom leads to technology which saves the environment and regressive trash like yourself who want to fuck over all people and even the environment too deserve the very suffering for yourselves that you wish to impose on others.

Enviroloons should be forced to live in cargo containers, castrated, and made to eat worms or whatever that they keep trying to force on us. And, when the enviroloons get old, they shouldn't be given medical care since they wish for that to be denied to old people anyways.

>>31430907

Hint: you have to read at least some of the thread first.

Also, no I did not already make a thread.

>>31426845
>This wouldn't happen if we didn't make rubber ducks in the first place. But those are important so what can ya do?
You're right, those ducks shouldn't have existed. Because they were made and lost, scientists discoverd ocean currents which you faggots have been claiming will fuck up the world because of global warming. Imagine how much less annoying you cunts would be if those ducks didn't exist?

File: SaiyanBar8.png (722KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

722KB, 1024x768px

>>31428165
>>31428165
>>31428126
>>31428126

Yes yes

If we make it to the stars, we need to be even more aggressive and deceptive.

Predator or Prey is a universal constant.

>>31426980
Now it admits that it wants to kill millions if not billions.

If enviros want to kill people so badly "for the earth", why don't they start with themselves? Or do they feel they are more important than poor people or brown people?

>>31430969

Jesus dude, do you realize you're arguing with a purely fictional... straw man?

I hate using that term but it completely applies here.

My suggestion is that we reorganize our economic system before it kills us, not that we kill humans off to save the Earth.

>>31431013
What kills mankind is the cancer of marxism. We need to cut that cancer out and throw it into gas chambers

>My suggestion is that we reorganize our economic system before it kills us
The economic system killing us is your fucking delusion, you have no single proof of it happening, it just a theory that exists inside your stupid head

>>31431133

Marxism is not an economic system you idiot.
It's a theoretical understanding of industrial production and the social class structure that develops around it.

>>31430426
>poor guy is marxist
hurr durr you're just jealous you want to steal other people's money
>rich guy is marxist
hurr durr white guilt privileged scum you're a hypocrite