PESHMERGAH FORTIFY KIRKUK
ISIS ATTACK SOUTHERN SHIA TERRITORY
ISIS UNITING OTHER SUNNI ANTI-GOVERNMENT FORCES
IRAN DISPATCHES ADVISERS
USA STILL ON SIDELINES
Arash Karami @thekarami 19m
ISIS kilometers away from Askari Shrine, one of most venerated Shia places that started 2006 civil war when attacked. http://aje.me/SCcnlO
Phillip Smyth @PhillipSmyth 1h
Recall Badr MP Qassem al-Araji who met w IRGC's Suleimani?He posted this-says ready to fight ISIS #HizballahCavalcade pic.twitter.com/YnoMqaEjcB
it will take a while, the nation-state system established by western imperialists and in line with western ideology is a bulwark against Islamic state forming, as it was intended.
Reminder that protestantism and it's sects are heresy
Reminder that mainstream catholicism is heresy
Reminder that Sedevacantism is the truth
Daily reminder that the Jews support Saudi Arabia and that's who funds these groups.
and you can go back to the Iran-Iraq war where we fed Saddam all he needed to try and destroy Iran.
We even fed him reconnaissance information which he used to gas the Iranians. Yes, that's right, we helped Saddam use chemical weapons against the Iranians.
The Iranians were forbidden to use such weapons by a ruling of Khomeini.
History is made right before our eyes /pol/
Don't ever forget this sight since it will be remembered for a long time, this is probably the greatest schism in islamic history since the split of Sunni and Shia.
You mean the Orthodox Church in communion with the Patriarch of Constantinople and that it is the wish hope and prayer of every true Christian to have Constantinople liberated from the kebab, by sword, by foot, or by miracle.
1. Is Maliki and the ISF capable or trustworthy? For the US? For Iran?
2.In what eventuality will the non-warlord leadership (Sunni (no moderate names stand out) in the case of ISIS) come to the negotiating table?
3. Is Kurdistan viable?
General Armchair-ing following from the events as I currently see them:
1. Fuck coalitions. Arm and finance the hell out of an independent Kurdish state.
2. Let Maliki, Assad, and friends & the Sunni, and terrorists deplete the cancerous region of its unemployable glut of millennials and the last of its oil money.
3. Prioritize Ukraine.
Am I the only one that thinks this is fucking huge?
Like shit, we're witnessing fucking countries tumbling down a new caliphate forming.
This is trascendental, add this to the Ukraine happenings and the increasing South China Sea and you have very "interesting" decades coming up.
Where will this all end?
1. Maliki has shown himself to not be much of a bridge builder, he's been sectarian in a lot of ways. The army has not been able to re-take Fallujah for over six months, to give you an idea of their capabilities.
2. sunnis have been willing to come to the table but Maliki has ignored them, exacerbating this whole thing
3. Kurdistan is very viable, it's economically strong and well defended.
what you're seeing is the retreat of American empire. Al Qaeda managed to draw the dragon from its lair and now it's exhausted. Now Russia and China and all variety of forces in the Middle East are seizing the opportunity.
Crofag here. We held the Ottomans for 5 fucking hundred years. Anyone caring about their turf can - like the Kurds do with ISIS. Kudos to Kurds!
The only real danger is letting extremist faggots reside in EU. Kick them out forchrissakes. Nobody needs that garbage reproducing inside Europe's borders. What the fuck did we defend Europe against? To see this shit all over the place now? Grow some balls.
Hezbollah will save us all
Anyone know about how the big oil corporations that are in Iraq are reacting to this?
i think iraq and the entire mid east is going to split. 100 years after we first fucked up the place. it was bound to happen sometime. the crazies will get their caliphate, the kurds will get a homeland out of iraq and syria will probably fracture into a thousand pieces. peace in our time
ISIS is vastly overrated. even rebels in syria kicked them out of aleppo.
they are looking huge now as no iraqi men wants to die for the puppet government.
I'll be impressed only if they manage to get kerkuk or baghdad
That's not true. Sunni aren't going anywhere and no side is winning or can "win." Any endgame other than a negotiated peace with proportional power-sharing and/or new borders isn't going to work.
We stomped Iraq down last time when they had one of the strongest militaries in the world with many other nations backing them.
This time the Shias in Iraq will help us remove salafi terrorists.
>implying that the sunis and the shiites will ever work together
Islam isn't going anywhere
the norm over the last 1400 years has been Islamic caliphate
Once the foreign institutions are wiped clean, a new Caliphate is inevitable
The problem with Arab Nationalism is that it could never unify all the people, it was ambivalent or hostile towards Islam.
I doubt they will attack Baghdad if they were so well organized up until now. It would make more sense to surround it, cut off electricity, water and lay siege. Occupy the airports so no one can get in to help or out to flee. And then lure the enemy to their occupied cities where they can ambush them. The ISIS scum is vulnerable in the open against any armory or air support. Iran would kick their ass in this regard in like a day.
A reasonable thing the US could be doing to halt ISIS is to destroy US made equipment they have seized, like these artillery pieces.
Yeah, it is going to look bad and be bad if these get employed on targets in Baghdad or Kirkuk. And the US military has a strong presence in Qatar at Al Udeid Air Base and could easily run missions from there, or even Kuwait or Jordan with drones.
>one of the strongest militaries in the world with many other nations backing them.
Are you talking about directly after the bloodiest conventional war in the second half of the twentieth century, or after ten years of sanctions, especially ANYTHING that could have a military purpose?
Neither time were they actually backed by any significant degree of outside support.
According to civilians in occupied areas, they're being ok, though. Providing water, electricity, and so on.
Anyone care to confirm this or venture any thoughts on it?
I'm really sceptical now of any time our governments calls anyone a 'terrorist' group, to be frank.
>The infantryman and his colleagues were already worn down after six months of fighting militants in western Iraq, men flush with weapons and zeal. Army commanders had no answer for the daily deadly ambushes and no broader strategy for prevailing in the longer war.
>“The state is weak,” Mr. Halbousi said. “This will be an endless battle.”
>After months of grinding conflict against a resurgent militant movement, the Iraqi Army is having its power blunted by a rise in desertions, turning the tide of the war and fragmenting an institution, trained and funded by the United States, that some hoped would provide Iraqis a common sense of citizenship.
>In a nation tearing apart along sectarian lines, Sunnis and Shiites have served together in the military. But the defections of Sunni soldiers threatened to deepen the growing perception among Iraq’s Sunnis that the military serves as an instrument of Shiite power, even while Shiites soldiers have also fled.
What they really want is to incite a civil war between Shias and Sunnis. If that happens, Baghdad becomes a battleground and ISIS will have much more room to manoeuvre and plan their attack on the capital, probably moving through Sunni neighbourhoods in the outskirts. In that eventuality, it's possible they could launch a strong attack on the government HQ and deal some serious damage to the command structure.
Al Maliki is literally making the situation worse by offering to arm civilians. I don't know who is advising him, but they should be shot.
I mean just think about it, ISIS is estimated at 7-10,000 men at most, yet they control huge areas.
1. they have to have more support from other Sunni forces
2. the Iraqi military must really, really be pathetically weak
I don't know where to find them and I have an aversion to watching people being killed on film. I'll take your word for it, though.
So just unarmed people in the street? I know about the two cases of crucifixions and I know either them or others similar have been involved in beheadings in Syria.
So yeah, I'll accept those cases for balance. I'm still interested in the view from a civilian account I read earlier that they're being useful and setting up ordered systems.
Of course, this could just be for Sunnis which is entirely possible.
The civilian in question mentioned that "any man who gives up his weapon, no matter his background, is left alone". So either that's true or they're being partisan and not giving the whole story.
Like I say, I don't trust our governments one inch when it comes to releasing information about "terrorist" groups.
you realize Arab nationalism was generally the idea of Arab Christians. It was their last effort to avoid this Islamic chauvinism when the foreign powers left. The Arab Christians should have been working to put aside their own differences, Syriacs, Melkites, Hellenes, Maronites, Armenian, etc., establishing one place as the Christian Arab state and the doubling down on the Nationalism. But they honestly believed they could get the Muslims to play nice and focus on ethnicity and geography, not theology. It was a fatal error because Islam inherently does not believe in station and place. Islam is a militant universalist ideology and for every non-Christian Arab willing to be a nationalist, there was 9 doubling down on Islam, especially after the failures of the Arab Socialism to defeat Israel.
in Syria, ISIS moves in, are initially tolerant and then gradually impose Islamic restrictions.
yeah but they control many towns and such, and we are talking over vast areas of land.
ISIL followers are happy as fuck about this because they believe this will the begining of a true secterian war where average Shia will want to kill the average Sunni and vice versa.
You Americans fucked up big time.
Except some of these caliphates were wealthy, peaceful, engaged in and encouraged the sciences and so on.
Also, I don't live in one and likely never will so it's not like if they "return to the middle ages" it will ever affect me.
Peaceful caliphate sounds like a good place to go on holiday too though.
yeah. Check theguardian voice is free article. The ones hating ISIL are Shi'ites and policemen, ofc. The Mosulite love ISIL.
watch the subtitled movie, theyre all military or shiite militiamen or government agents. Not civilians.
and in the recent war they genocided the ethnic Serbians in Croatia
ISIS is not inherently evil as many would like you to believe. They genuinely believe they are the good guys. They aren't to just murder people without some purpose. That's what Americans do.
I think everyone has a right to be self-determining in whatever way they see fit. It was always a nonsense of sheer arrogance to dictate that the western way is the only way.
The real picture is a lot more nuanced and complex.
I think it's overestimated. They have sugar in the gas tank and like Russia their only play is selling out to China (something that past the medium term (hooray for theocracy and military junta state) will be highly unpalatable).
I also don't see them doing this for northern Iraq. If they are implying they are (much like their support for Assad's reelection) it's probably an attempt at humor or manipulation.
The firts Iraq War (after the Kuait invasion) was also directly after the Iran-Iraq War, which is the bloodiest conventional interstate war since WW2.
Financial problems, along with Kuwaiti and Saudi oil dumping, specifically to prevent Saddam from rearming, were some of his motivations in invading.
Afterward, there were ten years of sanctions, especially focusing on anything that could be used or converted to military purposes.
Both wars with Iraq were with understrength and under-armed conscripts. They were impressive in size only while the people who could fight, (ie the republican guard and other elite units) melted away to create the core of the insurgency, and probably alot of the ISIS guys now.
Im sure they learned some lessons, and I wouldnt underestimate their abilities in a regional conflict, but alot of bluster coming out of their revolutionary guard is just plain bullshit.
> tolerant and then gradually impose Islamic restrictions
Alright, good. Useful, thanks. I haven't paid attention to them specifically in Syria or anywhere else until the news yesterday.
> of course they'll praise them for getting rid of Maliki army
Fair enough. I agree. I suspect Maliki fucked up big time. This was always the problem though. Sunni populations under Shia control or the other way round - always a recipe for disaster unless one or the other leader is relatively secularly inclined.
>think everyone has a right to be self-determining in whatever way they see fit. It was always a nonsense of sheer arrogance to dictate that the western way is the only way
The European system is the best system It is the only way by which humanity may leave it's cradle and journey to the stars. Not Islam. Not African tribal shit. Only Western civilisation can let us ascend limitlessly. The resources of the world belong to Europeans, it is our birthright. We should not have to barter with a camel fucking sheikh to have what is ours by right. Some races and some civilisations do not deserve to exist. A few hundred million non-white dead would usher in an age of unprecedented human achievement.
> ISIS is not inherently evil as many would like you to believe
I'm inclined to agree with the codicil of course that I think they're likely just people. Some good, some bad. We'll have to see. I won't buy any more propaganda though and it seems to me the press is going rampant with this "worse than al quaida" push. Which makes me suspicious at the very least.
Another anon here, I've seen the video he's talking about and it's quite brutal, they do a night raid on homes, shoot two guys in the back of the head, cut another guys head off whilst he's blind folded, shoot civilians in the street, I'm talking emptying a magazine from an AK-47 into someone, emptying handgun magazines into some guys head, making a father and son dig their own grave and then shooting them both.
Blowing up Humvee's, mortar strikes, it's some sort of recruitment video but it's fucking brutal, near the end they have some Iraqi soldier crying and ordering him to say what happens to enemies of Islam, they don't show his execution but he gets killed.
They have this database called the Mujahideen Database, they check ID's of people after they've seized checkpoints, if they're people they want they drag them out of their cars and shoot them, they make them run like animals and then chase them down with a car with a mounted machine gun.
These ISIS people are brutal fucks.
Iraq’s collapse has been driven by three things. The first is the war in Syria, which has become, in its fourth bloody year, almost entirely sectarian, with the country’s majority-Sunni opposition hijacked by extremists from groups like ISIS and Jabhat al-Nusra, and by the more than seven thousand foreigners, many of them from the West, who have joined their ranks. The border between the two countries—three hundred miles long, most of it an empty stretch of desert—has been effectively erased, with ISIS and Nusra working both sides. As the moderates in Syria have been pushed aside, so too have their comrades in Iraq.
The second factor—probably the dominant one—is the policies of Nuri Al-Maliki, Iraq’s Prime Minister. Maliki is a militant sectarian to the core, and he had been fighting on behalf of Iraq’s long-suppressed Shiite majority for years before the Americans arrived, in 2003. Even after the Americans toppled Saddam, Maliki never stopped, taking a page—and aid and direction—from his ideological brethren across the border in Iran. When the Americans were on the ground in Iraq, they acted repeatedly to restrain Maliki, and the rest of Iraq’s Shiite leadership, from its most sectarian impulses. At first, they failed, and the civil war began in earnest in 2006. It took three years and hundreds of lives, but the American military succeeded in tamping down Iraq’s sectarian furies, not just with violence but also by forcing Maliki to accommodate Sunni demands. Time and again, American commanders have told me, they stepped in front of Maliki to stop him from acting brutally and arbitrarily toward Iraq’s Sunni minority. Then the Americans left, removing the last restraints on Maliki’s sectarian and authoritarian tendencies.
> Check theguardian voice is free article
That's the article I read. And yeah, I found it very interesting. Like I say though, it could also be partisanship but if they're leaving Shia civilians alone, then I'm fine with them.
Which brings us to the third reason. When the Americans invaded, in March, 2003, they destroyed the Iraqi state—its military, its bureaucracy, its police force, and most everything else that might hold a country together. They spent the next nine years trying to build a state to replace the one they crushed. By 2011, by any reasonable measure, the Americans had made a lot of headway but were not finished with the job. For many months, the Obama and Maliki governments talked about keeping a residual force of American troops in Iraq, who would act largely to train Iraq’s Army and to provide intelligence against Sunni insurgents. (They would almost certainly have been barred from fighting.) Those were important reasons to stay, but the most important went largely unstated: it was to continue to act as a restraint on Maliki’s sectarian impulses, at least until the Iraqi political system was strong enough to contain him on its own. The negotiations between Obama and Maliki fell apart, in no small measure because of a lack of engagement by the White House. Today, many Iraqis, including some close to Maliki, say that a small force of American soldiers—working in non-combat roles—would have provided a crucial stabilizing factor that is now missing from Iraq. Sami al-Askari, a Maliki confidant, told me for my article this spring, “If you had a few hundred here, not even a few thousand, they would be coöperating with you, and they would become your partners.” President Obama wanted the Americans to come home, and Maliki didn’t particularly want them to stay.
The trouble is, as the events of this week show, what the Americans left behind was an Iraqi state that was not able to stand on its own. What we built is now coming apart. This is the real legacy of America’s war in Iraq.
>2 cars worth of Mujahidin
>thousands of shi'ites
ISIL confirmed for Rashidun army, the last time things like this happened with a dozen Arabs massacring a few tens of thousand Persians and flowing Euphrates with red blood and enslaving the other half.
> if the ISIS know what they are doing and have decent discipline
Yeah, one hopes so. I don't like these jihadist or militant groups or whatever one wants to call them but I'm not the one affected by them. If they set up order and give average citizens of both sides a fairly peaceful life then more power to them. I couldn't give a fuck about "strategic interests" and all this other shit.
at least he is honest. a total fucking asshole, but honest. no pretending.
realDonaldTrump Donald J. Trump Iraq told us to get out, Iraq is now falling, and Iraq now wants us to come back! Don't do it unless we get the OIL, and I mean ALL OF IT! About four hours ago via Twitter for Android Favorite Retweet Reply
They probably will but what I don't get? There's supposedly 7 thousand Iraqi soldiers and a handful of the ISIS lot, what is actually stopping the Iraqi army from fighting then and there?
I don't get it? They're going to die if they do nothing, they might live if they fight...
Something is off about this, they may be signing up to join ISIS...
>To engage them at a time when Muslim armies were being outflanked in Syria was not a wise idea. Khalid selected a shorter route to Syria, an unconventional route passing through the Syrian Desert. He boldly marched his armies through the desert. It is recorded that his soldiers marched for two days without a single drop of water, before reaching a pre-decided water source at an oasis. Khalid thus entered Northern Syria and caught the Byzantines at their right flank. According to modern historians, it was this ingenious strategic maneuver of Khalid, his perilous march through the desert and appearing at the north-eastern front of the Byzantines while they were occupied in tackling the Muslim armies in Southern Syria, that unhinged the Byzantine defences in Syria
>If they set up order and give average citizens of both sides a fairly peaceful life
This is kind of crucial for getting any for of political power to continue hostilities, and in terms of whatever negotiated settlement ends hostilities.
There are probably a core of army guys who understand the importance of discipline.
This doesn't mean I don't think they are brutal as fuck, just in a more calculated fashion than African tier 'armies'.
Alright. I agree that all sounds fucking brutal. Especially the crying guy. Man.
But ok, I want to be balanced. So without disputing that this IS brutal and I can't really get into the mindspace of someone who would shoot a crying human being, are these civilians or military/police targets?
I agree with you though but I just want to get a very clear complete picture as much as possible. I figure here is always the best place to ask.
> more than seven thousand foreigners, many of them from the West
This really fucking pisses me off. I count this as "western interference". No different than my detesting western governments interfering.
But mainly, how are these silly fucks getting in there? I thought maybe Turkey and then jumping the border. Any ideas?
Why can't we stop flights to these countries or give conditional visas? So, if you go to Turkey or any bordering country, you have to be back by your visa cut off date or risk being imprisoned when you do return?
thats what they are
they are a fraud of a religious extremist group. They for now are simply using religion as a guise to go around killing people and robbing banks at a mass scale
> Now Russia and China and all variety of forces in the Middle East are seizing the opportunity.
>Russia as you know it is collapsing
>China will have some heavy revolts before 2025, will inevitably change the identity of China as we know it
Look, I'm not saying that the American superpower is dwindling, but we are more than a superpower, more of an Ultrapower as dumb as that sounds. We're returning to regional superpower status that we had after WW1
Most of the people ISIS kills up-close-and-personal are:
-members of the military or security forces, sometimes dragged out of their homes or cars off duty, or executed after surrendering
-members of pro-government tribal militias
-government officials of some kind
They also kill thousands of random Shia civilians in daily car bomb and rocket attacks on Shia areas of Iraq. But that's just BOOM and its over. No up close and personal execution videos.
>civilians or military/police targets
There isn't always a clear distinction between the two (irregular fighters etc). Also, collaborators and political figures are also frequently targeted. Whether or not they are 'legitimate targets', one can see the logic in their elimination.
They presumably AREN"T just random civilians. Maybe they are targeted on religious grounds, but I doubt they are slaughtering people wholesale like that.
Its worth remembering that Sunni opinion shifted toward the US in the form of the awakening councils after AQI excesses...
I am sure the people there do.
I would assume they are military and police targets. In the first part of the video there is two drive by's which are done, they spray a car with bullets and kill the driver/passengers, then they stick an AK-47 out the window as two men are walking down the street and they shoot one of the men and continue shooting him whilst he's on the ground, screaming Allahu ackbar.
It doesn't indicate if these people work for the military or the police, it's assumed they are just civilians.
16.20 Ayad Allawi, the Iraqi prime minister from 2004 to 2005, has told the BBC's World at One the collapse of government control over Sunni Muslim areas was inevitable:
Quote All the ingredients for this problem have been fomenting for the last 13 years.
We have been ignoring the constitution, which talks about the liberty of the people. The oppression of peaceful demonstrators has been wide-ranging, sectarianism has been wide-ranging and what is happening was expected.
We don't know where the billions that have been spent on this one million man strong army has gone and now it has collapsed.
This is a complete and gross failure of the government that was installed by the international community and Iran.
We lose 1,000 people a week but the international community does not want to acknowledge this in Iraq.
Asked about outside intervention he said:
Quote This will add fuel to the fire.
Really the problem is that nobody cares what happens to Iraq. It wasn't just a problem of removing a tyrant. It was clear that there were no policies for after the invasion of Iraq.
My advice to the international community as well as the regional community is that they should refrain from interfering. It's not a matter of again creating a big war in Iraq.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED GOYIM
The UK is already arresting those that return from Syria and locking them up.
There was talk about revoking their citizenships but Theresa May has been denied this by the HOOOOOOOMAN RIGHTS courts..
Most of the Western fighters are coming from Sweden, Britain, Germany, France, Norway and the USA.
It's not my decision who gets left in charge. These people have been killing the shit out of each other for centuries. What a crying shame. I am one of those rare people who likes the Prophet, I've read books about him and everything and I think he would find this devastating.
They need peace. Whoever brings it, and with it, the chance of some degree of tolerance so EVERYONE can move forward and live a relatively peaceful life then sure, I would be delighted if they were in charge.
Also, as others have already mentioned to me, there's a lot more complexity to those drive-by videos than it first appears. Of course it's shit and nasty but it's a shit and nasty state of affairs on all sides. We've got more than enough blood on our hands too.
Aren't they saying the Iraqi army is just fed up and exhausted, though? Maybe that's why.
It's likely a propaganda piece anyway. One hopes they let them live. I always think if I was a military commander, I'd threaten people with death but then let them live - I think that's more likely to get me loyalty than any other way. Hopefully whomever's in charge thinks this way too.
Tell me more about how you "accomplished your objectives"
Do these young terrorists even know how shitty their religion is?
Egypt, an entire country with a longstanding religious governance, has pretty much forced itself to go secular because they know how much it has sucked the past thousand years.
It's almost as if being an Islamic extremist is like being a fucking hipster douchebag.. with guns
So how long until ISIS is parading in a brigade of M1 Abrams?
>Al-Qaeda disowned their organization because they were too brutal. AL-QAEDA.
>implying it was about methods and not about the power struggle regarding who would be the preeminent Islamist organization in terms of Syria and Iraq.
I am not trying to make out that they are not brutal horrible people, but endless feel based faggotry only gets in the way of a clear rational assessment of what they are and what can be done about them.
I doubt very much they'll let them live, these guys enjoy killing government/collaborator types too much.
It would also show the international stage that these fuckers mean srs bsns.
Alright, so largely "tactical" killings. Still shit but ok. My main concern is for civilians. So yeah, bombs - for fucks sake.
> executed after surrendering
Blurgh. Poor people.
>Am I the only one that thinks this is fucking huge?
And it all started with an uneducated fruit pedlar who was robbed and humiliated by a dyke cop.
Why do you think 1 million Brits marched against the war in Iraq?
We knew this would fucking happen, I said earlier my parents back in 1990 when the first gulf war was going on said that these animals need a dictator to keep them in line.
It's ridiculous and where the fuck is Tony Blair? A fucking middle east peace envoy and Europhile with blood on his hands... Why is he so quiet about this?
This is an "ideological publication from Department of Design and Editing and Publishing of the Islamic State"
Muslim from Jordan
wont happen now
They're not that big, they dont really control those areas they took and once the army get its shit together they"ll disappear like if they were never their
And most people here doest like them, im saying this because I spent all this day and yesterday talking about them with friends, this includes iraqis and syrians since jordan is full of them
Btw im in the car infront of the gym
Here is a pic
> Its worth remembering that Sunni opinion shifted toward the US in the form of the awakening councils after AQI excesses...
Mmm. Yeah, I agree. I think that whole country just wants some kind of stability. Anyone who wants a foothold is going to need to provide it - even minimally. Going after civilians will also likely pique the west's interests again and even though they have all sorts of hardware at their disposal, I don't think they'll want to risk air bombardments. That is if they don't bed down in civilian areas as a first priority though which might be another reason for ostensibly bringing order. We'll have to see I guess.
Does the fire rise?
Yes, Mohamed, yes it does.
The central bank will cease to be the lender of last resort for the Iraqi currency, rending it completely worthless.
They do have gold, but in terms of paper money? They can't use it, it'll make nice fire fuel though.
> It doesn't indicate if these people work for the military or the police, it's assumed they are just civilians
Yeah, this is what I'm most interested in. This kind of information. Or at least trying to work it out objectively. My sense is that it is the case that they're likely military/police targets or it could also be some sort of dispute. I don't know. I just hope it's not civilians. But yeah, it's shit anyway. But that's the kind of situation there is now.
After the rope was secured, guards shouted various rebukes including "Muqtada! Muqtada! Muqtada!" in reference to Muqtada al-Sadr; Saddam repeated the name mockingly and rebuked the shouts stating, "Do you consider this bravery?" A Shi'a version of an Islamic prayer was also recited by some of those present in the room, an apparent sectarian insult against the Sunni Saddam. One observer told Saddam:
"Go to hell!"
"The hell that is Iraq?"
The trapdoor sprang.
My beautiful country of Lebanon used to be a safe haven from all the sharia Muslim shit, until it got fucked up from dipshit sell outs during the war.
??? ????? ?? ?????
What happened with that ISIS-inspired uprising in Ma'an?
Very interesting, thanks.
I'm delighted they're arresting them. Are they coming straight from Syria do you know?
Also, usually I wouldn't say citizenship should be revoked but in this case I would wholeheartedly support that. I suppose the kicker is what to do with them then. Better to just give them really long, long, long jail sentences so they can muse on their fucktardery at leisure.
Also, all these countries - presumably Muslim kids, right?
blame the Israelis for driving the Palestinians out of their homeland
this. The Iraqi Army has been trying to dislodge ISIS from Fallujah and failed miserably. They simply don't have the willingness to die for this government.
what if the soldiers were going to say, a Christian nation to defeat a repressive regime? Like say Ukrainians going to fight Putin?
>Are they coming straight from Syria do you know?
I think they're using Greece/Turkey route. The home office is actively watching all the people that fly over to that region.
Here this documentary explains it.
>Also, all these countries - presumably Muslim kids, right?
Most of them are from troubled regions in cities that's the common theme, they are converts and suffer from converts zeal.
President Obama has said "I don't rule anything out" for US responses to the crisis in Iraq, Reuters reports. He said he is " looking at all options in helping the Iraqi government face the growing insurgency".
The presdient was asked whether the US would consider drone strikes or any other direct or indirect action to counter Isis and jihadist groups. Reuters continues:
He said there will be short-term immediate actions that need to be done militarily in Iraq, and that his national security team is looking at all options. He said the United States is prepared to take military action when its national security interests are threatened.
U.S. GOING BACK IN!!!
So much this.
> I doubt very much they'll let them live
Pfft. Sad, man.
I agree about the international stage but hopefully they'll be mindful of how the local civilian population views it. You kill collaborators etc with impunity, it's only a while before you start going after the innocent if they're felt to be "collaborating" too.
Dumb sand niggers killing dumb sand niggers, and that's a fuck up?
You dense fuck, this is great. Let them wipe each other out, you brown children have such fun times in your sand boxes.
>He said there will be short-term immediate actions that need to be done militarily in Iraq, and that his national security team is looking at all options. He said the United States is prepared to take military action when its national security interests are threatened.
USA will never learn.
anything is possible when George W. Bush is running things
>shit going on in another country
>this is threat to american freedom
Jasmine Coleman @jasminecoleman 14m
"If #ISIS can hold Mosul + consolidate presence..it'd be the most significant act by a jihadist group since 9/11" says @BowenBBC #Iraq
gordon horspool @slicedtomatoes 29m
@georgegalloway @r4 Jeremybowen says the invasion of Iraq was the biggest recruiting agent for jihadists
This link contains a brief first hand account from a Kurdish businessman in Kirkuk, discussing the deployment of the peshmerga around the city
Groups that engage in wholesale slaughter tend to lose support.
So to the extent that they kill civillians, they do it using explosives and as a terror-spectacle, while also making sure they target 'enemy' groups (read Shia).
This is getting 2spooky
16.55 JM Berger, an American expert on al-Qaeda at Infowire, commenting on reports that ISIS stole $450 million from the central bank in Mosu, has said:
ISIS now has more money than Osama bin Laden ever did - not counting ISIS's previous bankroll and the fundraising bonanza that its conquest of Mosul is likely to produce.
ISIS is now arguably in a better position to bankroll global terrorism than al-Qaeda ever was.
>Isis is now stronger than Al Qaeda ever was
think hard dumbass, iraq is divided into three major regions, kurd, sunni, shia.
The government of Iraq is shia and oppresses the sunni region, isis is sunni, the sunni region has had a bone to pick with the shia before isis was there.
> My beautiful country of Lebanon
I remember the war in the 80s. I was just a kid but I remember the news footage. Almost every night. The one most vividly was of kids running down an alley way to get water and risking being shot by snipers.
Also, my mother went there a lot as a child. Back in the 50s. They used to call Beirut the "Paris of the east" apparently. She told me it was very beautiful. They used to go on holiday all the time.
Sad, sad, sad.
> going to say, a Christian nation to defeat a repressive regime
Well, I am a Christian so no, I would not go and fight a Christian war somewhere else. What if civilians get killed by the people I'm supposed to be supporting?
I will defend where I am but I will always do so because I needed to defend it and for no other reason.
>you can actually just instantly render a currency worthless
There would have to be a changeover period where you exchanged dinars for New Dinars or whatever. Sure you could try and vet every single person trying to change money, but ti would be expensive and would never be every effective, given the sums at stake.
17.40 Hillary Clinton has added her voice to the growing diplomatic concern about the Iraq situation. She says what's happening in Iraq is "a dreadful, deteriorating situation" and she's surprised by the effectiveness of ISIS
Well, the ISIS are savage degenerates but I surely wouldn't mind watching them execute her.
> The home office is actively watching all the people that fly over to that region
Ok, excellent. I think they should distribute public information about them too so I know who to bitch slap if I ever see them.
> they are converts and suffer from converts zeal
Same old, same old. The worst kinds of "religious" people there are. It's never about the religion but whatever their own personal brand of idiocy is.
Thanks for that link. Looking at it now.
That's not what I'm saying. When your enemy is right in front of you, marching towards you, of course it's easy to fight them. But what about when your enemy is civilians picking up weapons and attacking you, then throwing away their weapons and melting back into the crowd? Keeping peace in a country on the edge of full scale ethnic civil war like Iraq is almost impossible, even for an army that isn't weakened and demoralised like Iraq's is. The Americans found it hard enough.
No idea about ma"an but imo its impossible for anything serious to happen here in jordan
Even who do the prayer and knows about islam is busy buying germany and other countries flags and everyone is only talking about the world cup
I literally told them that americans are talking about us uniting and about a serious islamic movement that could start what we all know will eventually happen ( end of israel) but no one gives a shit
personally and im saying this in front of everyone as an arab and muslim I dont know whos on the right side, I hate all the arab goverments and I want all arab countries to unite under an islamic goverment but I dont want islamists who cut heads and consider the us and the west demons who should be killed to rule, its simple imo, why isnt the us interfering with other countries? If we hade good goverments I think the us might be a good ally
If that were the case this wouldn't happen. Iranians know their shit. Or: they are letting this unfold on purpose, Iraq gets fragmented and they help form a new Shia state in the south.
This whole thing still goes on, here's from two weeks ago:
UK Iraq war inquiry 'unblocked' after deal on Blair/Bush letters
Reminds me of "The Ghost Writer", might watch this again very soon.
Isn't it funny how a group of Saudis, Lebanese and Egyptians, financed by a Saudi living in Pakistan, attacked America and America invaded Iraq? It's almost like the entire war on terror was just a ploy to remove Western geopolitical adversaries in the middle east.
>Maliki government is an Iranian puppet, he has all these Iranian higher ups living in the Green Zone giving him orders.
Maliki is a USA puppet. Jewish neocons actually think they can stabilize iraq directly now.
Jews are horrible leaders, they're good at pulling strings but when they are in real leadership positions everything turns to utter shit.
>I dont want islamists who cut heads and consider the us and the west demons who should be killed to rule
this is "revolutionary reaction", when you're in a fight to the death with powerful imperialist powers these sorts of things happen: see the first years of the Iranian revolution. All real revolutions involve the wholesale slaughter of the prior rulers, revolutionary violence is inherent to the process.
At this point I'm hoping for the abolishment of all puppet regimes and real unification, only then can real lasting peace be achieved.
Example of South America is most fitting here. USA thought it had to stabilize the region and impose ruthless dictatorships. Turns out once they were overthrown the region became quite peaceful.
it was always an imperial war
Afghanistan was more oriented toward deterring threats to American legitimacy, which is why it was neglected once Al Qaeda was neutralized.
Iraq was always a war of imperial aggression, intended to establish a foothold in the heart of the middle east.
Ok, very interesting.
> Bilal Abdul Kareem, an American Muslim convert
> She's British, and converted to Islam four years ago.
See, this is the major problem actual Muslims face. They should find these kids at source and root them the fuck out.
Also, I couldn't watch that video all the way through. Makes me fucking rage. Just idiots with a gun looking for a reason to use it. Illegally entering another country, interfering with its locals, and contributing to bloodshed and mayhem. Unbelievable.
Not at all. This kind of sectarian violence was going to happen in Iraq under Hussein anyway, only sooner. It was spiraling toward because of international sanctions and megalomaniacal spending of what money they had by Saddam. When the crash came, you'd have Sunni vs. Shia because of the divide-and-rule that the Ba'ath party had instigated for so many years, along with Saudi Arabia, Iran and Turkey eying up the Wahhabi Sunni west, the Khomeini'ite Shia East and the Kurdish north respectively.
You'd end up with a vortex of violence much worse than what we have now.
I agree with you 100%
Why can't there be a Sufi-ish Caliphate to unite the Arab people? No batshit, head-cutting, Christian removing stuff, but a strong Islamic government to resist the degeneracy we have in the West. I would like that a lot.
This April, there was a big disturbance in Ma'an
People were scared because some guys with fancy guns and ISIS flags were out on the street walking around for a day or two. I don't know what happened after that
Why though? That will only happen if America does something in there.
Any American returning from overseas and is suspected of coming from these insurgent groups needs to be put on a watchlist. I wouldn't normally advocate that but in this case, it's entirely appropriate.
Are those like a poor man's Waffen SS? They even have the MG42 replicas (I believe MG3).
If America intervenes now and crushes ISIS, you're going to have thousands of very angry jihadists returning to the West. You can't keep tabs on them all. All it takes is one with a bomb.
> they do it using explosives and as a terror-spectacle
I agree with you but like you say, they do it enough, they'll lose support. Especially if the other side does it too. But from what I know, they've both been at this kind of bombing shit for a while now.
Again, if I was some kind of military commander, I'd put a stop to it as part of any order plan.
Thing is though, they utterly hate each other so I don't even know if that's achievable.
The better solution is to just carve it up and let one side take one and the other the other. And the only way that's going to happen is if it gets so bad it becomes the only viable option. I think we're a long way from that still.
>America is the MOST legitimate
That would help, but the Sunni's are a small minority, and while inflaming them against the Shia would help, the authorities still have thousands of loyal soldiers, some US troops, not to mention whatever fire support and drones and shit the USA will lend them. Things are too stacked against them and I have a feeling they will ultimately hit a wall.
>This kind of sectarian violence was going to happen in Iraq under Hussein anyway
no, it wasn't
sectarian violence is not inevitable
the start of the sectarian violence was a deliberate tactic of Zarqawi and his allies
it then tamped down until Maliki started being a dick
Eat shit, no you don't present any majority in the arab world, the majority is silent when you have oppressive monarchies like in Jordan (renowned as CIA's lackey)!
?????? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ?????
btw, iraqi here, and you've guessed it,sunni as well!
Having world police only fuels and delays shitstorms, it doesnt prevent them.
Americans are finally beginning to understand, it only took us 4 failed "democracy establishing military expeditions" to realize that this shit never will work
IRAN WILL SAVE US
IRAN WILL PURGE THE ISIS SCUM
GLORY TO IRAN
PERSIAN EMPIRE WILL RISE AGAIN
This will happen again:
The situation in Afghanistan this week was a completely different story. This time, Iranian special forces were freely handed US communications and operational codes in a gesture from Washington to Tehran -- freely except for the fact that their range was limited to a radius applicable only to the local US command structure in and around Herat.
The US-Iranian dialogue leading up to this military and intelligence cooperation in Afghanistan began in late September and flowed through two channels: The first had two branches - one, American business representatives employed in the past year by firms with investments in Iran. Those firms were managed by Richard Cheney before he was elected vice president; two, CIA officers left to hold down various undercover duties after the 1991 Gulf War period, when Cheney served the first President Bush as defense secretary. Both groups have been acting as Iran's lobby in Washington, advocating the lifting of U.S. economic sanctions and a larger American stake in the Iranian economy. The second channel was military. Two secret visits to Tehran happened in recent weeks by General Tommy Franks, Head of US Central Command (covering Afghanistan and the Near East), attended by armed forces staff officers and CIA Iranian Desk staffers. They held intensive discussions with Iranian army and military intelligence chiefs, as well as General Yahya Rahim Safavi, commander of the Revolutionary Guards, on Iran's contribution to the US war against terror and role in its aftermath.
> Why can't there be a Sufi-ish Caliphate to unite the Arab people? No batshit, head-cutting, Christian removing stuff, but a strong Islamic government to resist the degeneracy we have in the West. I would like that a lot.
Exactly, man. Spot on. I really wish this would happen too. A peaceful caliphate would be awesome. I'm not Muslim but I really want to see this in my lifetime.
What the Americans were after was for an Iranian elite unit to cross into Afghanistan, infiltrate Herat and form insurrectionary cells to rise up against their Taliban masters when the Northern Alliance attacked the city. Generals Franks and Safavi agreed on a plan and shaped its details. It worked like clockwork. Iranian commandos set up a secure base for themselves in Herat. A group of eight to 10 US Special Forces officers joined them as the advance guard of the Northern Alliance. Under an Americans guarantee, the thrust into Herat and the central Afghanistan province of Bamayan was left entirely to the forces of the Shi'ite militia chief, former governor Ismail Khan, and no one but the Shi'ite Hazara ethnic contingents led by Karim Khalili were deployed in the city and region. On these terms, Iranian agents organized the local insurrection as arranged and the rebel leader invited the Northern Alliance, or rather, Ismail Khan, to liberate the town.
A US Special Forces team of officers and CIA personnel meanwhile remained in Tehran to oversee the smooth operation of the joint venture -- the first time the CIA was allowed to set foot in the Iranian capital since 1979. Not only were they present on this alien terrain, but the Herat campaign had US and Iranian military-intelligence teams working opposite each other for a shared objective.
Admittedly, in the long term, ISIS is definitely going to be destroyed. There is no way that the West is going to allow an sharia state in the centre of the middle east. But the possibility of them doing serious damage to the Iraqi government and possibly taking Baghdad is still there. 40% is not a small minority by any means.
American imperaliast bullshit. America needs to stay out. It achieves nothing, creates more shit, and loads of you get killed, you pay a fortune, and for what? Nothing.
Just stay out.
Saddam was taking on a more and more explicit Sunni bent as time went by. He was having statues of himself in Sunni garb built, more Sunni public holidays, more scapegoating of Shia and especially Kurds, and changing the national flag.
If he was going the full Sunni nationalist, there was going to be inevitable Shia kickback. Iran backed it.
Yes, exactly. Which is why America should stay out and watch anyone coming back in anyway. You can't keep tabs on them all indeed which is even more of a reason just to stay out.
>?? ????? ?? ?????
Cool now I know how to say "stay mad" in Arabic
I thought they were more like 30%? But anyway, ISIS will eventually get rekt, damage will be done, but there will be no one to fill the power vacuum. Iran won't be able to come in because of the US, Turkey maybe could invade the Kurds but that's it. I just think that as interesting as this is, it will ultimately fizzle out, and things in Iraq will either return to relative normal, or will just break down into smaller, semi-autonomous regions, but no great happening or caliphate
>American imperaliast bullshit. America needs to stay out. It achieves nothing, creates more shit, and loads of you get killed, you pay a fortune, and for what? Nothing.
>Just stay out.
We're trying. I'm 20 and none of this generation wants anything to do with this shit
But we cant get in office until we're 35. So we're stuck with the War-Mongering baby boomer retards who ruined this country
Precisely. Let them work it out. 100% agree. And I'm not saying that because "no war, omgod no war" but because I want other cultures to have their own chance to be strong and independent. All our governments just lie and serve corporate interests anyway. Let them have a chance and go their own way. Totally agree.
So? Let them wallow in their own animalistic barbarism, not our business. We should let them take over, then deport all them out of Europe back home. Problem solved for everyone.
haha HAPPENING NOW
18.29 Iran 'deploys two battalions of the Quds force with experience of fighting in Iraq to help their Iraq counterparts defend Samara and win back parts of Tikrit' - Wall Street Journal reports
> We're trying. I'm 20
Oh no, I know, don't worry. No ill will to the American people at all, especially the kids. I hate the boomers too, believe me.
Our focus should be in getting our own governments out. I'm sick and tired of the lies, and deceptions, and bullshit. We need a whole new collective foreign policy. Dialogue, less corporatism, more internal self determination. Lots of trade but that's it.
They won't be able to make significant gains with the USA watching though. IMO it's possible Turkey will claim a chunk of northern Iraq and Iran will claim a chunk of the east, but that's about it at most
Good luck. Most young people don't approve of the government, but are also critically retarded, know nothing about politics or economics except regurgitated talking points, are addicted to electronic entertainment, and just generally are apathetic as shit.
Because this is /pol, ppl have already made their minds and want someone to reaffirm it, and even the few who are truly interested are easily swayed by the propaganda of others and the media's massive, confusing, and often contradictory info.
So what is the point?
All I can say is that ISIS actually takes care of law and order, trully believes that we will only be prosperous again with Islamic law.
They hold themselves to the same "extreme" laws they force on the others, you can literally complain to an ISIS court if anyone messed with you unjustly, and 2 ISIS members atleast have been punished in Raqqa for harrassing an innocent with lashes!
Finally, those you saw killed in videos (salel sawarem 4), are all part of the iraqi government forces, or otherwise are informants/collaborates!
So yeah I like them, and Allah's laws are more than just for me, as long as everyone is equal under the law, which under ISIS it is, caliphate is on!
WHAT DONT YOU GUYS GET
WE ARE ONLY TARGETS BECAUSE WE'RE IN THESE COUNTRIES TO BEGIN WITH
THE IRAQIS DONT WANT US IN THEIR COUNTRY. THE PEOPLE DONT. THE GOVERNMENT DOESNT (unless theyre getting attacked, surprise surprise)
We cant be there. You cant assist an insurgency that you created. We need to let this thing happen and then talk to the new leader. This isnt our problem and this will keep happening until the iraqi majority gets their way.
See, I was asking questions earlier in the thread about what civilians thought about them. There was a report in the Guardian today of Iraqi locals saying what you're saying which is why I think you'd be really good to talk to. If you want to make a thread or even if you just jump into a new one, and you have the time, I think you should tell us. Who cares what others say. There are loads of people on this thread who agree with you.
Also, while I have you here - just one quick question. So you're Sunni and you're happy but will ISIS treat Shia Iraqis the same? Even with all the past animosity and trouble? What do you think?
It should not matter whether the Middle-East is secure and stable for us to get a stranglehold on our own immigrants. Nationalist governments in Europe would take care of this, instead of the spineless, pathetic cowards in service right now, serving EU neomarxist and Jewish interests.
No, I know. It's tragic. At least in my generation, we knew to get on to the streets and not think retweeting something was the height of political "activism".
Still. I have a lot of faith in people. Let's see how this pans out on the ground. For us, though, we need a new way of government or certainly we need whole new attitudes to foreign policy and corporate interests. Absolutely critical.
Exactly. If they have a prosperous, peaceful caliphate, why the fuck would they want to come here and get benefits? Those countries are soaked with oil. If anything, it'll be loads of people from here trying to get in there illegally probably.
They need their own chance to do their own thing in their own way. We need to leave them the hell alone once and for all.
Doubt it. They just seized the initiative to further the Shiite cause in Iraq over the US jewry sponsored ISIL, which is now as always just a controlled opposition becoming uncontrolled (but technically still is, Saudi Arabia (US puppet) anyone?).
They don't want a Sunni Caliphate next to them.
I agree, yeah. The empire is dying. Finally. Good fucking riddance.
I wish for a glorious Islamic caliphate in my lifetime that will provide peace and prosperty for all within it, and allow me, a foreigner who likes Islam very much, a chance to visit and sit in a beautiful garden, sipping tea.
There are no prosperous, peaceful Middle Eastern countries. Turkey is as close as it gets and even they are emigrating into Europe. Even those that are wealthy are still just ruled by dictators, strongmen, corrupt sheiks, etc. The nature of the Arab character does not lend itself to fairness, equality or high standards of living for all, it's a very "winner take all" mentality of tribalism headed up by warlords.
We need to stop thinking politically and economically and realize that we are humans and we cant predict humans because humans will always do things to make them happy
In America, money is happiness, so we're invading for the oil and power
In Iraq, religion is happiness, but we arent letting them fulfill their happiness, thus wanting them to kill us
>the economy is weak and the empire is crumbling.
...Not even close.
We have an entire country of oil we're sitting on and not mining yet because our government is retarded.
America is going to have a golden age from 2020-2040 because all these government plans to better ourselves, take place during that time frame.
The only thing that will change this system is a massive financial shock that destroys government power and legitimacy. At this point the system is too powerful and corrupt, and the oligarchs too deeply entrenched to be extricated from it. Things are going to have to get worse for them to get better. If Americans don't get a shock to the system, they will just continue on eating junk food and popping anti-depressants and watching trash TV while their government bombs and enslaves half the rest of the world.
Because we've been fucking with them for so long, you oaf. They've never had a chance.
> The nature of the Arab character does not lend itself to fairness, equality or high standards of living for all
> The nature of the Arab character
> The nature of
>There are no prosperous, peaceful Middle Eastern countries
BECAUSE WE ARENT LETTING THEM FORM ONE
We keep invading and tell them what "we want them to do"
We formed these nations with so many backwards fucking policies and not evaluating Religion-By-Area statistics and fucked the whole thing up
Now we have people on the streets fighting for nationalism of nations that dont even exist yet.
All because we fucked up from the start. Now we need to let them create the borders that THEY want in THEIR country because THEY know more about this than US and we cant comprehend that.
Yes. Considering he's slowly but surely destroying them, I wonder how they could take anything in Iraq.
>America is probably going to break up into several different states during that time, which will then likely fight amongst each other for those resources.
Yeah OK, you're just an idiot then.
America isnt a conventional state.
The racist and old south is being taken over by minorities and all power and money is controlled in the north easy, while the center supports everyone.
America isnt going to break down for a long, long time.
Let me do some explaining first, when I grew up as a kid in the ninties, I had all kinds of friends, arabs, kurds,even shia!
After the american invasion, shia showed their true colors, their death squads, and torture of innocent Sunnis in prisons became horriblly infamous, I my self saw corpse with a shining empty whilte skull and whole in the ribcage, they put the poor soul's head in acid and drilled his heart simultaneously while alive. 170 people in my neighboorhood of "aljaamia" in baghdad got killed just they are named "Omar" in their IDs.
You see, under shia, you have no freedom of studying religion, or interpreting it unless you are "decendent of the prophet", and those who are in infallable, so if they out of the blue, say to enter heaven you have eat shit to get to heaven, this become's literally god's command! (In sunni islam any can study religion, and you need texts to prove your point, kind of like studying law, it is the law actually under islam)
Guess what the mostly Arab sunni hating persian Shia scolars (and the traitorus one in najaf/karbalah in iraq) commanded? That those who kill/torture sunnis go to heaven!
We got backstabbed by friends, and family (yes I used to have shia family by marriage extension, though very extended).
Though many shia find the iranian and even southern iraqi redicoulus, we just can't trust them anymore, under ISIS, they will be forced to convert to sunni, or GTFO!
The reasonable one are only culturally shia, and won't resist converting, those that don't are a cause of concern, we won't be backstabbed again!
As for the kurds, we sunni arabs still love them as fellow sunnis and countrymen!
Exactly. I agree with every word. Personally, I just want everyone to develop their own best systems according to their own needs like you say. I have no issue at all with an Islamic state because there will be Muslims living in it, according to their mores and ways. I really fail to understand why that's such a problem. The only conclusion I can have then is that it is a case of homogenising and forcing others to also be western and it's bullshit. That flies in the face of everything I think we actually stand for and unlike the lies and propaganda our own countries keep pushing. It will be Muslims in those countries and people here often don't realise that Islam is not only a type of religion, it is also a kind of society. So, they want that society. And I fully support them getting it.
We've only been fucking with them for 100 years or so. Their problems go back way farther than that. They've had every chance in the world just like everybody else.
It's funny how you keep saying that. US sponsored rebel (FSA) is a joke. They might have collaborated with local jihadist group that pledge allegiance to alqaidah, but ofcourse they're not much better tha FSA and get BTFO by ISIS.
In reality no
ISIS and Assad have been in a defacto truce since ISIS went to war with all the other Syrian rebels. There's an isolated Assad base with a few hundred men called Division 17 in the middle of ISIS-held territory in Syria. ISIS still hasn't captured it and doesn't even really attack it.
In general, Assad's force and ISIS's forces don't even face each other except in a few small places, so both focus on fighting the other rebels.
Iraq is so fucked.
It really should just be broken up.
man these guys are dangerous, I'm a libyan and we are having the same problem with these *ansar alsharia * fuckers. They don't represent Islam or Sunni's. they are a real threat and we need to fucking kill them all
Wow. This post is amazing. I study religion and this is just... wow. It's rare to get this kind of insight. Thanks, man.
I'm concerned about forced conversions, though. Is there a lot of hatred there for Shias to the extent that they won't just be allowed to practise their own way?
Reply in the new thread by the way. This one's dead. If you have the time, of course.
Bullcrap. The only thing that existed before European intervention was just warring, nomad tribes and city states. Like it or not, there wouldn't even be nations as we define them to begin with if it wasn't for evil western interventionism. It would still just be a bunch of dudes living out in tents cutting each others heads off, regional warlords robbing raping and pillaging etc. You have this ridiculous idea like the west has been holding the middle easterners back, when in fact they're the only reason they exist as a semi-modern society. If they were capable of producing something great, they would. And yet every chance they get, they set themselves further back by regressing deeper and deeper into their own culture, which is tribalistic and sectarian, and is not compatible with being a major nation state.