We're in some of the coldest days of the year now, let's see what keeps you warm at night.
I picked up a Trek Tk II long edition from Sea to Summit a week ago and took it out this past weekend. Overall very comfortable and fits into my backpack very well, compacting to about the size of a NFL Football. If you want temperature ratings on it I found this on their website
Ive got a woods microlite rated at 40 F.
I usually just use a fleece liner with it in the winter. Have slept comfortably down to 23F with this setup. Been thinking about picking a Kelty Cosmic Down 0 degree bag. Any anons have experience with this bag? I mostly due long distance hikes so weight is sort of an issue. If it wasnt I would probably just get a modular sleep system but 12 fucking pounds is too much for a bag.
My winter setup is a Western Mountaineering Ultralight. It's rated to 20 degrees F, but I've slept in it comfortably down to around 0 degrees F using a silk liner.
Anybody have any suggestions for an affordable 30-40 deg rated bag? I want to start backpacking and all I have is the bulky crap one I used as a kid. I don't have a ton of money, but I can save if I have to.
Anyone have any experience with the REI radiant?
I have a limited budget and I need a lightweight compressible for my bag. I still don't want to buy a shit bag though.
Just how susceptible to wet are down bags? I'm going to be going motorcycle camping in Scotland, and want a down bag so I don't have too much stuff piled at the back, but am concerned about rain and wet air. Obviously the bag will be in a waterproof sack, but all I've read seems to imply that even sneezing in the direction of a down bag is too much, so with dew and possibly frost I'm rising an eyebrow.
Also, what would be a good bag for camping in the Highlands in September?
See if you can get a exterior liner that's waterproof, check for used surplus military gear. I know that, at least in the US you can get them for pretty cheap, like $10. I was lucky enough to have a friend that got issued two so he gave the extra one to me, it's what I used.
Look on Ebay. My plan is to get a generic Chinese -25 duck down mummy bag and use it all times of the year. They are about $50 and come with a compression sack. Says they are waterproof too, but I would still always sleep under a tarp.
Snugpack Antartica RE, so cozy, so snug.. It's like I am sleeping in my bed at home. -25 comfort -45 extreme.
Radiant is my current bag.
Its not shit by any means, when it comes to quality vs price i think its top tier but there are without a doubt better sleeping bags out there.
The first year or two its was shedding alot, the tent was filled with down but it has stopped now for some reason.
It doesnt compress too good. I bought the long/wide because i like to have some room (at the expense of warmth) and i wont use it in the winter anyway, so even when its compressed its fairly big. Still no where near old sleeping bags or winter sleeping bags, just a bit larger than the average "modern" sleeping bag.
The last thing is the zipper. It gets stuck ALL THE TIME. i mean like 3 times when i try to zip it up. After some time you get the hang of it and I dont mind it as much but its still annoying.
Still I would rate it maybe 7/10. The price is good, even though its not top tier in weight and space I have no problem fitting it in my backpacks, 45 l. and 100 l.. The warmth is good and i prefer to adjust with clothes anyway and its not too hot for those hot summer nights. Been hiking in tent for 3 weeks without any problems with it being wet or scratches or whatever.
If you're in the south I'd get a $40 dollar bag for the warmer nights at ~50-60F and a $270 dollar bag for those trips that really need it.
Yeah, look for something made of feather down if the rain and moisture levels aren't too high, otherwise synthetic-hybrid combos would be better for your trip. Be warned though, the good hybrid bags cost quite a bit more.
Alternatively, you can get a feather down bag with a mil-surp bivy bag which is what I used when I was spending a summer in the Rockies. For a mil-surp bivy bag I pay about $10 dollars but only because I live close enough to a military base and can check stores that sell it. I wouldn't pay more than $20 for one.
Is the MSS intermediate bag good for moderate winters? Should I pair it with the MSS Bivvy sack to make it waterproof?
If you want to carry it.
Currently snggled in my Seurra Designs Backcountry Bed, 800 fill down.
I have it paired with my Klymet Inertia XL, a nice fit! But my Big Agnes insulated Q-core also fits. Being rectangular, it sticks out at the feet in the corners, which even though insulated, exposes it to more cold air.
The Klymet Inertia XL is a perfect shape and very small and light.
Yes, my sleeping bag and pad are on my bed and it is comfy!
Pic is Klymet Inertia XL, vs. Klymet Recon vs. 1L water bottle. The BA Q-cores are much larger.
I am sold on good pads!
This depends on the type of down your bag uses. My Big Agnes bag uses Downtek, which is hydrophobic and doesn't stay wet. Regular down just turns into a soggy mess. I believe Kelty uses DriDown, which is a similar product.
Down bags are perfectly suitable for wet environments if you buy the right bag and do your best to keep it dry in the first place.
Are you me?
I ordered a synthetic quilt _yesterday_, because same.
As to your question: Yes, smart! If you don't trust me (I didn't), check out fjäderlett (BPL.com legend Jörgen Johansson) and Thunder in the Night -- they did the same.
So -- which combo are you thinking? Pic is my Cumulus Lite Line 400 down bag (850 cuin) 755g, below is my newly ordered Enlightened Equipment Prodigy 50F Synthetic quilt, 416g.
Shit will be cash.
Double up! See the above!
Also, as to the general disussion: A "three-season" bag can easily be fortified for colder seasons (except "expeditions", e.g. Antartica and the Himalayas).
1. get a nice bivy, waterproof bottom, DWR/breathable top.
2. Wear ALL your clothes to bed. Yes, don't be an idiot. ALL your clothes.
3. Get a thin silk liner
4. Bring an extra $5 fleece blanket, sow it into a bag for your waist/legs.
5. Wear MORE clothes.
Illustration by Mike Clelland! (Get his books)
To rest your shoulders on and keep from turning, thus rolling "out of" your quilt. if sleeping on your back. Also, comfy as fuck. If side-/tummy sleeper, disregard.
Sorry about image for ants. Pic is if in sleeping bag.
>1. get a nice bivy, waterproof bottom, DWR/breathable top.
Couple questions regarding bivy bags
1. how bad is condensation with cheap normal non goretex/event bags, like for example alpkit hunka?
2. do down bags work in bivis or won't they work because of condensation and it is better to bring a synthetic bag?
3. is there a good buy option for a tall size breathable bag?
4. mat goes in our under bag?
5. piss bottle obligatory?
Scenario: mediocre weekend (2 nights) in Yurop fall season, with wet and windy conditions. Hard mode no tarp
Can i ask a idiotic question, im gonna do a trip with my friends for like 2 weeks in winter, we are planing to buy sleep bag but problem is i never slept in something like bag and i usually sleep like pic related, so how to fuck i deal with it? Can i get used to it? Any experience on this?
Yes, get an egg shapped (or modified mummy) bag they are wider cut and you can roll around in it.if weight is not a limit, get a blanket type bag.
get a wide enough pad. funny but I sleep better on a "hard" foam mat than on an airmat.
take a good sip of something before you go to sleep.
I'll go a Lil bit off topic here but anyways.
I recently camped out in the winter snow. It was -5 to -10 out.
I cut of some fir, put it beneath my sleeping mat and lazily hanged my tarp over it.
I wore tights, bdu pants, socks and Wool socks, a Hoodie and my parka inside my old, big kinda junk sleeping bag.
. I made a fire to cook and keep me warm, it just made me hot though. I let It die and sleept that night without being cold AT ALL! I was surprised, but my jacket is pretty great.
When I woke up though the back-inside of my nose hurt a lot though. I guess the smoke and then the cold really hurt it, swallowing hurt a lot. One day later it's gone though. I made sure to breath trough fabric to not get too cold air, but how can I prevent it in the future?
>1. how bad is condensation with cheap normal non goretex/event bags, like for example alpkit hunka?
Don't own plebtier equipment... No, seriously, I don't know desu. No experience with condensation, ever. Maybe once, but no problem
>2. do down bags work in bivis or won't they work because of condensation and it is better to bring a synthetic bag?
Haven't had problems using my Cumulus down bag. Not "dry-treated" down, either.
>3. is there a good buy option for a tall size breathable bag?
Sry, too much work to Google for you, and I don't really know about a lot of options outside the UL world, and they're... slightly pricey as a general principle.
>4. mat goes in our under bag?
However you like. Scientists argue.
>5. piss bottle obligatory?
No, why? Just go out and piss. Unless you really like pissing inside tents in general?
Pic related, my Katabatic Bristlecone bivy under a HMG square tarp.
>Hard mode no tarp
Wet and windy sorta begs a shelter, unless you find (1) a nice, dense tree (head towards trunk), or (2) some other outcrop to keep your face-opening dry..
(3) Hope it don't rain.
> what combo
The Sierra Designs 0*F, 800 fill Backcountry Bed and the Enlightened Equipment 10* F 850 fill Revelation long/wide.
If need be, my Backcountry Bed can go inside my Nemo Stratoloft 750 fill 0*F with the quilt on top and I should be cozy well below -40 F.
But that is a 3.5# plan B.
The quilt is 1.5# and the long/wide should lay flat over two bags in my 4 season TarpTent Scarp 2.
I think I'm covered all year with the Revelation as a Summer bag/quilt.
Besides the Revelation, that is two crazy, insane, ridiculously cool sleeping systems I've _never_ heard of, ever, anywhere.
However -- have you considered synthetics as a point of physics/principle? Mainly in realtion to (1) outside humidity, and (2) Dew point/inside condensation?
Really not trying to steal your thunder, just curious as to your thoughts on it..
> az based anon, so no
Cold? I never thought the desert would be cold, until 45 years ago.
Thoughts? I like warmness inna winter. AZ pic related.
Good for you, I guess -- have a nice one! Me, I'm stuck in South-Western Norway: Humidity bonanza 350 days a year..
I need one for a Wyoming/Montana winter that is $150 or less. So far I think the Kelty Ignite 16 is gonna be the one. Any other recommendations?
Hi. AZ has a generally lower humidity than your primary reference. The oc pic was a wonderous snow storm ( not blizzard), that is rare.
I choose down in downtek ot Drydown as a tech choice I can afford for wieght and perfomance.
2 Nemo Stratolofts zipped together for humpity bumpity time with gf.
Tag says finished size 78" x 33". Lotsa room to wrestle.
So nice and cozy!
1.) down is retarded. its only for UL yuppie faggots who mainly work in an office and cannot haul the literal extra 1lb from modern hollow strand synthetic. they can also afford to purchase a new 380$ bag every 4-5 uses
2.) down is a bitch to maintain. there are many things you do not know about owning down and many secrets which are purposely not listed online because it would hurt the sales of downy shit. moisture will fucking kill you in down. you CANNOT BREATH in your sack, it always has to be kept bone dry, sleeping without a VBL (a whole different thing to learn howto use) in it will ruin it dont even boil water around it. and any humidity aside from 0% will start to lower its rating and actually ruin your bag. down can only be used for freezing temps where there absolutely is no liquid humidity. and even when kept bone dry, down will start to degrade within 2 or 3 years. if the oils from your body dont attack the down externally to ruin it, the natural internal oils within the feather will internally dry out and the feather will become brittle and cut the insulating properties by %80 .
also keep in mind that you cannot really wash down. there are idiots on the internet who claim you can, but they are retarded as fuck.
2.) synthetic is the only thing actually worth carrying outdoors with you. it lasts much MUCH longer, and is much more tolerant to everything
3.) added insulation should be draped on the OUTSIDE of the bag. you are not supposed to thick layers of clothing inside your bag, your bag needs to be warmed up on the inside for it to work. wearing clothing keeps the air between you and the clothing warm, rather than the air between you and the bag warm. the air which escapes from the clothing doesn't heat the chamber of the bag fast enough. in some cases you can get away with adding a bag liner because you are still keeping the principal of heating the main chamber of a bag and not the layer between you and whatever clothing you are wearing... CONT
this needs to be stickied... or anyone who can write a better general concept of how bags work can make their own sticky
bag liners can be effective especially when lined properly and pasted against the walls of the bag and not tightly against you, but covering the bag from the outside is still much more effective than adding an internal layer
again i will remind you to always keep in mind how sleeping bags work by your body heating the main chamber of the bag, which is why you should dress lightly. good synthetic thermal underwear is enough. i prefer the base layers 1 and 2 of GEN3 ECWS cold weather issue underwear made by polartec, but many other alternatives exist.
and never buy down bags, they only serve one direct purpose and that is extreme cold weather expeditions (-20 and below + traveling for more than 5 days)
there is literally no other use for down besides this, and you can pretty much expect maybe 4-7 uses and they have to be within 3 or 4 years tops.
down is also made by savage chinks who rip apart live duckbros while laughing at their anguish as they stumble around for several moments wondering why they have no more skin before they die
no actually its not
down has been incorrectly sold to idiots for years outside its intended use. down is more impractical than shitting on a fire, then just covering yourself in burning shit
did you purchase a down syndrome bag from REI using mommies credit card?
you obviously fucked up
you're probably a weeb too, go play bloodborne on the PS4 and pretend you also know shit about gaming
So hostile. No need to refute, your anger betrays your agenda.
> down only for expeditions
Why? Because best? Ok.
>bitch to take care of
For you. Sorry, I do better and have no issues. I also use synth bag, but is least fav. Heavy, less compression, less warmth to weight ratio...
Oh, so PERFORMANCE is why expedition first choice. And now with water repelling, hydrophobic treatments likr DryDown and DryTech, even better!
You sound triggered.
You sound mad.
Are you happy?
Can you be happy surrounded by third party monitored, animal safe, down bag?
I don't care as much for you, as you care as much for me.
You may use wool cloak now...
expedition and -20F because thats the only situation where weight savings becomes worth it.
fill weight of sythetic gets heavier at -20F comfort rating, but its still roughly a pound heavier than what down would be. maybe 1.5lbs heavier
actually look at the fill weights relative to volume.
the benefit down gives is pathetic in comparison to its durability.
sythetic is a petroleum product, it does not decay or become chemically unbalanced when interacting with moisture and oils, such as down does.
down really is a total bitch to work with. its really not practical for outdoor use and even if you keep down perfectly dry and clean, the feathers will begin to decay as they are not being kept alive by the animal anymore. have you ever kept a bird feather? they definitely become much more brittle after several years... not really sure what exactly is your retarded problem is.
oh wait, you're one of those cucked idiots who got btfo by the outdoors industry who pushes shitty materials onto people and the people actually adopt this shit because some other idiot told them it was good, and the price is more expensive... and you get overcharged for subpar gear.
i really love how stupid people are
Picked up a Kelty Ignite 20 at REI the other day. Here it is compared to my MSS Intermediate bag. The MSS is infinitely more robust in both zipper quality and material, however, its also significantly harder to compress to a manageable size which is why I picked up the Kelty Dridown.
Seems pretty nice so far though, I'll be sleeping outside Saturday night to test it. Temps should hit 18°F... I'll give a report
also remember, you cannot breathe in down. you have to sleep with your face out in the open.
this is literally to much moisture the pissy down fabric can handle
with synthetic bags you can cover your face near the vent so your breath heats the living shit out of the bag before escaping to provide you more oxygen.
have you ever slept with the covers over your head? the moisture absorbs into the material
down is a fucking scam, yes, millions of people can be convinced to believe sub par products are superior, when it totally is not
yeah that seems better
but i wouldnt trust everything they say about it
and you still probably cant wash it,
and the feather will decay within 4 or 5 years
and its probably more expensive than the most pissy yuppie shit on the market
This. I make $120 an hour and if I have to work an hour or two to afford a sleeping bag that will last me a few years then that's fine with me.
All these people bitching about how it doesn't last, etc are just poor and don't want to cough up the money several years from now.
again, this is alot for a savings of 1 or 1.5 lbs
modern hallow channel synthetics are much nicer
no, once you wash down it never is the same again. take any crisp new feather from any bird and wet it, then let it dry.. the feather now permanently looks like shit, congratulations.
really, there are two types of people
those who actually know down is worthless, and those who pretend they are buying the best gear.
guess which one /out/ is full of
You realize theres a difference between down and feathers right?
yeah man, i do
down is the same exact material, just with a different shape.
stop trying to shill down so hard, you made a poor choice but thats ok because the assumption that down is useful for anything really is an industry lie pushed onto retards who dont really know better and gets adopted by the swirling masses such as yourself bro
Calm down with the hate, my feather sleeping bag stay warm after 5 years.
Sure, they are not as warm as before, maybe they loose 5° or something, but they are still good.
The thing is that you should not compress them. Just pack them. And when you store them at home, let them breath.
The fucking compression bag is what kill them. The 2L you gain does not worth the damage made to the bag.
Short and compact, containing all useful informations you need to know. This is how all gear video should be.
Agreed. Nothing Ididn't know about down or down vs. synth, but interestin description on the various synth fibers.
Basicallly, down is still my choice for it's performance to weight ratio, compressabilty, current disposable income (a big factor) and my area (SW USA).
Downtek, Drydown and DWR treatments, even better.
As I have said, I have synth bags, but are my least fav and tend to be loaners more than me using them.
>i dont want to be cucked by china
well if you're merkan it's too late. it happened decades ago and The Big Cucking is yet to come
I have a blue Kelty cosmic down 20* back. I was in 15* weather recently and it was pretty chilly inside the bag. I would definitely getting a warmer bag than you need or adding a fleece liner
i use a wiggys super light ftrss system. its not light. but i have all seasons covered.
Seriously considering some of Snugpak's gear, they have some great looking stuff.
Anyone have their hammocks and hammock bottoms? Looking for one to combine with a -20 bag with a liner to use in my "Just in case I never want to return to society" kit.
there used to be this one called the ozark trail cocoon 200 or 250 sold at walmart that was a down bag for like at most $80. Don't know if they still make them though. But supposedly it was surprisingly warm and compact.
I've been thinking about picking up a Sea to Summit TR1.
I figured it would be good as a warm weather bag and also maybe it could double as a hammock top quilt.
With liners I probably wouldn't need a warmer sleeping bag any time of the year unless I did alpine camping.
Englightened Equipment wouldn't be much more expensive, though, as an item. But there would likely be a steep shipping fee compared to the TR1 which would be free postage and get here soon.
Another thing to consider is the new Sea to Summit bags. You guys spot those yet? Maybe the ember quilt would work better for me.
Have you ever ordered generic duck down stuff from china?
I want a duck down mummy bag and a duck down "sweater" jacket, and for between $20-$50 USD, they seem like a good buy. But how shitty are they?
I bought a 70% down jacket from Kholl's, USA for $40.
I like it, but does not match my Cerium LT. How could it @ $40?
Pic unrelated. ...or is it?
this is a great bag
i don't mind the 1.5lb of extra weight to carry, and the larger stuff size
im not a manlet so for me its ok
but personally i dont like the idea of some chink ripping a live bird apart to make your ultra faggot yuppie bag
synthetic is still the better choice for me
where is the logic in that?
a petroleum product is does not require killing of an animal for its substance. how is digging a hole into the earth to remove some black liquid worse than killing an actual animal?
down bags support animal cruelty
and this isn't the 1980's. the petroleum industry isnt dumping sulfuric chemicals into the ocean anymore.
petrolium is actually a natural product. you can make oil and gasoline and diesel from fucking plants and trees.
yes, this is actually natural. you dont need a chemical lab to do it, any person can do this with minimal, basic equipment.
really, nothing on this earth is unnatural
its stupid how ignorant some people are
Sure looks like cruelty to me bro. But you go ahead and ignore the human and environmental costs of oil.
i have the antarctica RE in extra-long with a zip-in expansion panel
pic related is what it looks like in the stuff sack
Can /out/ settle an argument I've been having with a friend? If you have a rolling mat like pic related, do you sleep on the reflective side or the foam side? Considering the point here is thermal insulation.
Reflective side. The point of the metallic film is to reflect the heat from your body back at you. The less obstruction between the heat source (you) and the mylar (the shiny stuff) the better.
Part of Heat is basicly radiation (think infrared pictures) similar to light it can be reflected. Thus on a mirrored surface less heat is absorbed. The rest of the mat works by limiting thermal conductivity. though i assume the difference which side up is quite small
S how memey is the notion of 'quilts'? They seem to be essentially a-half sleeping bag, the bottom half that one would lay on is removed to reduce weight, but wouldn't sleeping directly on the pad be uncomfortable? Also too easy to shift position at night and wake up cold.
its just a retarded down blanket
make sure you dont fall into the REI hiking douche metasphere though.
down products are really shitty.
the durability and ease of use for synthetics far outweigh the weight savings of down.
the typical fill weight for down bag using the higest quality of down in the comfort range for -20F is 3.5lbs
the typical fill weight for a synthetic bag of the same comfort rating would be 5lbs.
that is only a 1.5lbs difference
you can apply the same logic to quilts, its only roughly a 30% weight savings, but for that 30% you are getting the most pissy material which just isn't worth it.
i dont understand why people pretend down is feasible for outdoor use. i really dont.
DriDown and similar products on the otherhand are relatively new and really should be the only down product you ever consider getting, but i still dont understand how people have been using the regular down outdoors this whole time. its very stupid.
And you have used down?
Or just talk shit without the expierience of ownership?
Part of having your opinion matter is fact based use, but you sound so salty I have to assume your bitterness comes from actual use, right?
quilts are amazing. it's like sleeping with a normal blanket at home when it's warm, and any good one can cinch around the body when it's cold or drafty. there really is no need for the zipper or wrap around insulation in all but the most extreme environments.
I and most backpackers wear head to toe longjohns/socks/balacava at the very least when sleeping in order to reduce fouling the bag with oils and perspiration. so my body doesn't really come in direct contact with the mat.
there are plenty of synthetic quilts if you prefer.
you know, many people have been sleeping outdoors for a few hundred years (or longer) all over the world using down insulation. the vast majority didn't die of hypothermia in their sleep either.
>the durability and ease of use for synthetics
FYI down products last many more years than synthetics because down is much more compressible, whereas synthetics compress and lose fill over time. Synthetics are also more likely to clump up and create cold spots in your jacket or sleeping bag.
I've been in a hurricane in my down jacket without problems because of this little thing called waterproofing.
>wouldn't sleeping directly on the pad be uncomfortable?
>Also too easy to shift position at night and wake up cold.
I guess this is a fair point. When I sleep on my back I don't move at night, though.
Going to hike with my uncle up at Pictured Rocks in Michigan where it's damp
What's your thought on Mountain Laurel Designs synthetic quilts? Seems pretty expensive, overpriced memery or legit quality?