Bows!

>>652277
If it says "tactical" or "survival" in the item description there's usually a better alternative that costs less.

If you're buying a first bow and are just getting into archery, you need to find out if you're patient enough to learn traditional archery over a few years or want to get something with sights. I have a Fred Bear Montana Longbow and love it, but you can buy a decent rifle/scope combination for less money.

The bow in your post has some weak links where it hinges. I don't like the look of it and wouldn't get it. If you want something compact, get a takedown recurve.

>>652277
>http://www.survivalarcherysystems.com/products/sas-tactical-survival-bow-dec-jan-sale-price
Just no

>What bow is good for survival.
Also no.

>>652280
>>652292

You guys are right. There seems to be no need for the tactical one if i could just pack down a recurve. Can you recomend me a nice one? Found a RAGIM impala. How many pounds should i start with?

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>>652299
Samick Sage usually gets great reviews and it's very affordable and can be taken down.

If you're an average man of average height but has never shot a bow before, you should probably go with like 45# limbs.

>>652306
not op here but a question about this bow-

if i order if say amazon or something does it come complete or do i need to buy my own string nocking points? also should i keep the draw string it comes with or buy a better one?

>>652277
Don't listen to this faggot >>652306 saying >If you're an average man of average height but has never shot a bow before, you should probably go with like 45# limbs

You will get hurt if you start with 45 on a traditional bow.

>>652345
So what should i start with?

>>652352
Begginer bow like samick polaris, learn the proper technique and build your muscles first and then gradually go up with poundage.

>>652277
Build a father and son bow while out inna woods you fucking casual. Takes about an hour.

>>652345
>You will get hurt if you start with 45 on a traditional bow
Maybe if you're a girl.

>>652345
False, you are a fucking clown

Sage sammick fag reporting in and #45 is an excellent begginer draw weight and I highly recommend it for great quality for such a convenient price

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>>652361
Oh yea Pic related

>>652361
>#45 is an excellent begginer draw weight
Visit to any archery forum or traditional archery beginner video on youtube says otherwise. Beginners should start light,learn the correct technique and then go up with the pounds.

>>652360
Who said I wasn't?

>>652277
>survival
>tactical

Has this bullshit infected archery too?

Damn.

>>652364
Can i disasemble it and asemble it without any special tools?

>>652353
I learned basics with a pvc bow i made.

>>652277
The best bow for survival is a self bow.

Get to learning how to make one, faggot.

>>652404
Not tools needed at all for re/dis- assembly, as well as for re-stringing

>>652345
>>652352
>>652353
>>652360
>>652361
>>652364
>>652434
Hijacking thread. Wanting to get into archery recently, but there aren't any archery shops near so I'm going to buy online. I'm 6ft tall, with an armspan of 85 inches. Using both the armspan/2.5 method and the "make like you're drawing and measure" method, that gives me a 34 inch draw, and supposedly a 70+inch bow.

To me this seems pretty ridiculous. Or do I just have stupidly lanky arms for my height?

Also, Samick Sage versus Polaris for slaying targets?

>>652345
>You will get hurt if you start with 45 on a traditional bow.
My first bow was the Fred Bear I mentioned above. It's 55#. Don't be a pussified manlet.

>>652714
Any clubs nearby? Or just somewhere you can try shooting a bow? I'd want to confirm that draw length before I bought gear. Like I'm 6' and my draw length is 29". You may have stupidly lanky arms. I'd say use a measuring arrow for best results (i.e. draw a bow with a very long arrow, mark it at the front of the riser when you're at full draw, that's your draw length). Ideally do this with an experienced archer watching to make sure you're not doing it wrong and getting the wrong draw length, but I get that you might not know one. Where are you anchoring when you make like you're drawing btw?

>>653145
Did some searching and there's a club nearby. They do beginner's courses, NZ$120 for 5 hour and a half lessons. I think I'll take that, since it will give me an idea of whether or not archery is for me, and I would assume they would tell me my measurements as well (since they'll have to measure me for a training bow, right?)

When I'm pretend drawing I'm putting my left arm out forward and my right arm back so that the meaty bit that my thumb comes off from sits on my chin.

>>652277
Get a fiberglass longbow; ~#35lb. if you're a woman, ~#40 if you're a male skelly/manlet and ~#50 otherwise. Many people will recommend a recurve (the Sammick Sage is pretty popular), but if you ever make your own bow it's probably going to be a longbow so I'd recommend learning how to shoot one.

>>652372
It's infected wristwatches and bracelets, so why not bows?

I saw somebody wearing camo fuzzy slippers at taco bell a couple weeks ago. Tactical bathwear, anyone?

>>653340
That doesn't sound too far wrong, a little short if anything. You're not under tension with the bow though, so hard to say.

More than likely they'll get you to set the nock of an arrow against the middle of your collar bone and hold it out between your outstretched arms as sort of a rough draw length, but mostly to make sure the arrow is long enough not to come off the bow at full draw - you can generally ask to get it done with the measuring arrow though.

If it turns out you do have a 34" draw length, it'll be a massive pain in the ass if you ever want to shoot compound, but on the bright side, you'll pick up a bit of speed whatever kind of bow you shoot.

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>>652280
>if you're patient enough to learn traditional archery over a few years

“Years”? One can learn how to accurately shoot a bow in a few _hours_ and while greater accuracy at longer ranges takes some practice, archery is one of the easiest things to lean, even kids can do it.

This myth that it takes years to shoot a bow is just that; a myth, repeated by those who have never shot a bow.

>>653569
You can get good enough for target shooting in a few hours, sure. But being good enough to take deer, including things like shooting from odd positions because of undergrowth and allowing lead if the animal is moving takes more time.

Then again, I'm cross-dominant (left eyed, right handed) and don't have time to practice regularly, so it probably took me longer than someone who is truly dedicated to get to that level of proficiency.

And I was using a bit of hyperbole to indicate that traditional archery takes more patience than just getting a compound and a peep sight.

I have a samick sage too that i quite like.
Realistically id bring my carbon bow, a bowtech carbon knight. Its way faster and more accurate and the same weight. If it breaks making a flatbow isnt that hard, ive made a few throughout the years.

>>652277

A crossbow.

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>>653518
>make sure the arrow is long enough not to come off the bow at full draw
This is generally a good idea.

>>653599
That looks... unpleasant.

>>653602
That's what you get when beginners start with 45# bow.

>>653619
The arrow was obviously a field point (no cuts from blade edges), so a 20# bow could do that. That's what you get with noobs in general. It really helps to have someone who knows what they're doing to help you learn.

>>653599
I did this with a blow dart once

shit was not cash

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>>653599

>>652345

I started off with a 22-24lb bow, and have only shot it a few times as I am waiting for my target stands to come in but I am glad I opted for a lowballing. It's heavier than I expected with only composite bows as a reference point. It's also why takedown seems like a better idea for us newbies - you will be able to scale up or down accordingly. I really would have loved to buy these beautiful hungarian/mongolian bows I saw but when I'm liable to increase my potential draw-weight with time it would have been a foolish purchase. They say you should start with low caliber guns and I imagine it's useful to do the same in archery.

If you're a male whose already semi-fit and outdoorsy then you can probably start higher like most recommend here or elsewhere. If you're a limp wrist little girly man like me transitioning for the first time off of being a lazy geek [spoiler]Shame I never tried to be a trap back in my early 20s[/spoiler] then maybe start off smaller.

>>653667

Besides making sure the arrow is long enough to keep an inch or more off the bow at full draw, anything else to avoid that?

Can you get collapsible bows?

>>654334

It's more relevant to compound bows, but worth people knowing anyway - never shoot anything but carbon or aluminium arrows out of a compound (with the exception of fibreglass fishing arrows, avoid all other fibreglass arrows, and definitely do not shoot wooden arrows).

Also, with your carbons/aluminiums, correct spine. Like you're putting yourself in danger if you've got a 30" draw length and go buy a 500 spine arrow and load it up with 200 grains of point weight. You don't want one to snap when shot and wind up with a bow hand full of splintered carbon. That sounds scary (and it is), but use a spine chart and you'll be right.

Worth mentioning for compound and trad: if your arrow comes off your rest for any reason at full draw, don't break your grip or try to flick it back on, just let the bow down in a slow, controlled way and start again from square one.

>>654340
You can - the one in OPs picture is one, but as other people have said, a normal takedown recurve can pack down just as or more compactly, can be bought cheaper and will likely perform better.

Guy who thought I had a 34in draw here. Turns out my wife mismeasured ... armspan is about 71.5in, putting me at about 28in draw. So I was looking at the 68in limb samick polaris, what draw weight would you suggest for a beginner who isn't particularly strong but not a complete wuss? (I don't work out, but I don't have a desk job and spend most days off carrying children in my arms.)

Would it be sensible to start with 38lbs? Or should I drop back to about 25-30 and buy stronger limbs later? The full set can be had for about $NZ150 with extra limbs for $NZ95.

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>>654378
>bow hand full of splintered carbon. That sounds scary (and it is)
I thought about posting this earlier but decided against it, but now that you've brought it up, here you go.

A gun.

There's literally no advantage to a bow. Making your own arrows that will actually fly straight is not a simple process. Bows also require care, especially the string. If you go into the woods with no hunting skills and no shooting skills whether it be bow or gun and intend to survive off of what you kill, you WILL die.

I hate seeing threads like this on /out/. People with no skills think they're gonna be Alexander Supertramp but they didn't make it to the end, where he dies. Sorry, but there's a reason people only lived into their 40's before modern times. It wasn't easy.

>>654650
If you had read past the first post you would realise that the thread had already dealt with tactifags and was going in a completely different direction now.

>>654649
that looks pretty nasty, but lucky no arteries got hit.

Hunting moose with bows seems to be quite a popular thing but is it ethical?

Bows don't seem powerful enough to drop a moose quickly desu

>>654700
>seem
Based on what?

>>654741
There are loads of moose hunting with bow vids on youtube

>>654700
Why wouldn't it be ethical? A 60#+ bow with a heavy arrow and the proper broadhead (such as a Silver Flame) will have no problem putting down a moose.

If you actually want a good bow for "Tactical survival", learn to make them. You should be bringing decent cordage and a knife when you camp anyway.

Find a bush that has branches with a decent spring to them, find a decently straight piece, find the center, carve it so it's even weight on both sides, trial+error eventually you're making good bows.

For arrows find a good straight bush/sapling, a feather and a chippable rock. Fishing line works good for fletching but use real/artificial sinew if you can get some. Shave the stick smooth, put a few feathers on the lightweight end in a triangular pattern. You can sharpen the heavy end and go bird hunting right away, or you can fashion a ghetto ass projectile point and tie it on, or a good one if you take the time to understand knapping a little. Good skill to have anyway.

Bows are bulky and heavy, and if you rely on arrows that your buy/bring, you might end up in trouble in an actual "survival situation"(lol). You're much better off learning to build your own shit, and it's not hard at all to make a bow that can bag birds, and not that much harder to make one good enough for larger game once you understand what's going on, though I highly recommend learning to build atlatl throwers and darts for large game.

>>653599
I really want to know the back
story here, that looks like a wood, handmade arrow hand cut goose feathers, maybe white turkey. wrapped with either artificial or real sinew(cant tell too blurry) caluses indicate hes shooting traditonal longbow(i have the same shoothing scars on my hand and thats what i shoot).

>>654648
Go to that club session mate, shoot a 25# and see how it feels, then judge from there. Buy kit once you've had a go on their stuff.

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>>653599
>>654649
A quick Google image search shows that this is a lot more common than it should be.

>>655285
Oh alright then!

...You sound like my wife. Giving sensible advice and all that boring stuff.

>>655152
Probably just a primitive archer who dun goof'd, or even suffered an equipment failure of some kind. That tends to happen relatively frequently, after all, but then again that's also the FUN factor.

i started with a 60# take down recurve, because i could get it very cheap on sale.
at first it was a little bit hard to anchor and not tremble, but after a few weeks it is nice.
only problem is it's too hard hitting for stumping, if i hit a tree, it takes a long time to dig out the arrow and the tree will probably die, so a lower poundage would be more fun.

>>655152
German archer shooting a traditional Hungarian horsebow I believe.

Alroighty nooblet question time.

Getting back into archery after a few years hiatus. I only want to do 3D shoots for now. I'm torn between recurve or compound.

I only have a few hours per week at most to practice.

Budget is about $400. I've been looking at this for compound: http://missionarchery.com/product/hype/

and this for recurve: http://www.3riversarchery.com/martin-panther-62quot-takedown-recurve-bow.html

I'm a smaller-to-medium framed guy, 155lbs, I can comfortably draw 35-40# for target shooting, maybe 45-50# if I wanted to hunt.

>>655338

Why the fuck would you ever shoot at trees? That destroys the arrows.

>>653586

>underrated post, also smaller more transportable projectiles that would take up less space

Crossbow does seem like it'd be easy to use right away and be most compact.

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>>656101
> Crossbow does seem like it'd be easy to use right away and be most compact.

While a crossbow is easy to shoot, due to it’s rifle type configuration, they’ve got issues of their own;

They’re heavy, bulky and have poor balance, being very “muzzle heavy”.
Much slower to reload, particularly in a tree stand (where it may not be possible).
Crossbows suffer from rapid string wear due to riding across the guide; expect to get the string replaced every season.

>>656101
Crossbows have their pros and cons. Easier to learn than a bow but, contrary to the idea that they are "rifles that shoot arrows," you need to be in archery range. Like 20-30 yards. 40 may be effective, but they drop off and lose velocity faster than arrows. They are also louder, so deer are more likely to jump the string.

They are front-heavy compared to rifles, but this is easily offset by using a rest or shooting from a kneeling position. When shooting from a seated position, I cross my left leg over my right to give myself a platform for my arm if I can get away with the movement. You can fire them off hand and be very accurate, but you need to have good form for that.

They tend to be bulky for trekking and you have to work around the string if you are walking with it cocked (NOT loaded!).

You also need to check your local regs. In the US they vary widely. Some states allow them all season. Others have limited seasons. Some only allow them for disabled hunters that cannot draw 35 pounds. Others do not allow them at all.

Personally, I like mine. I like my bow better, but like my crossbow in cold weather when I'm wearing bulky clothes. Plus I think they are great for people getting into bowhunting that may not have the time to practice to become ethical shots at 20-30 yards and need more practice. They're also good if you're prone to getting the adrenaline jitters when deer walk by. Get a couple of seasons under their belt with the crossbow while they work with the bow and then take up the bow to enhance the challenge.

As a "survival" weapon, however, they're not gonna be great. Bulkier, heavier, slower, noisier, and more specialized repair and maintenance than a bow.

>>652314
It should be complete ready, but I did upgrade my string and added silencers.

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I got this in 35# draw. About $125 for a mongol horse bow off amazon and seems highly reviewed. I bought it as an inexpensive practice bow but it hasn't arrived yet. I'll let /out/ know if it's actually any decent.

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>>656233
Hope you bought a thumb ring too, because you're pretty much going to have to use a Mongolian style draw, otherwise you're going to be getting a lot of finger pinch if you try to use the 3 finger draw most people use in the West.

>>652954
and you probably learned a bunch of shitty habits from it. But so long as you figured out what works for you then there's no problem with that. For most people, however, it's recommended to start well below that so you can learn proper form before moving up to the big stuff. It makes learning quicker since you're focusing on proper technique rather than compensating for a tiny penis.

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>>656236
I ordered pic related off amazon at the same time as the bow. I was actually originally only going to buy the thumb ring to see if the Asian/Mongol draw would help with an issue I've been having with my right hand ring finger (broke it in middle school and it goes numb after I shoot more than a few minutes using Euro draw.)

Not too sure what arrows to get for it though. I have arrows for my 40# longbow that should probably work. Same cabelas ones shown in >>652364

Also, silly question: for some reason I got it into my head that a 40# recurve will be easier to draw than a 40# longbow for some reason (shorter draw length overall, maybe?) Is there some truth to this or is this bullshit?

>>656122
>>656101
>>656130
Another problem with crossbows in some areas is legality. You should probably get a bow you can legally use to hunt and some jurisdictions preclude crossbow use.

>>656242
>Is there some truth to this or is this bullshit?
It's pretty much bullshit. Compound bows of a given draw weight are easier to draw than longbows or recurves because they use cams for gearing. That said, the ergonomics of a particular bow have a lot to do with the feel of the draw.

>>656095

With limited practice time, compound will see you improve faster. With compound, you'll find it pretty hard to keep everything under $400 without going second hand. Bare bow could be under $400, but sights, a rest, release aid, stabilisers, set-up costs and arrows will put you over that mark.

Another consideration is whether or not you want to hunt eventually. It'd be hard to do on your budget, the ideal thing in your position would be a longish bow (like maybe 34-35" axle to axle) with an IBO of at least 320-330fps, which would give you a bow that'd be reasonably competitive for 3D that you could also hunt with later on if that was your thing - something like a PSE Bow Madness 34, but sadly goes for about $750 bare bow.

There are other options than mission at your price point though. PSE stinger X and martin krypton are both worth looking into. The PSE brute force is new and a little more expensive, but worth a look. You could start your 3D bow set-up from a target compound (e.g. PSE Phenom, Supra) but they tend to be way more expensive than hunting bows at entry level.

>>652277
man i bet those modern bows they make can be pretty freaking deadly

>>656435
He was asking about recurve vs. longbow, nothing to do with compound.

>>656237
>you probably learned a bunch of shitty habits from it
I probably did. Then again, I grew up in the country and worked my way through college as a machinist. I'm only 5'10" tall, but I'm large and sturdy.

>it's recommended to start well below that so you can learn proper form before moving up to the big stuff. It makes learning quicker since you're focusing on proper technique rather than compensating for a tiny penis.
I started with that bow because I got it cheap. No compensation involved, other than compensating for being a poorfag at the time.

>>656573
I know, hence my first sentence. I threw in the rest as additional information.

>>656781
Sorry for being a dick about it. I just assumed you were talking about how everyone should start with a higher draw weight unless they're little girly men.

>>656782
Alright, the wording confused me a bit, that's all.

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Going to a local archery shop/range (within walking distance) to go look at some Hoyt compound bows

I want to get into hunting eventually, after I've established skill. Realistically, how long should I practice shooting before trying to give hunting a go?

I'm going with Hoyt because that's primarily what the shop offers, it's based in my state and has been recommended to me.

>>657066
>>657079
I was kinda confusing there, my apologies. Yes, I've probably got lots of bad habits. I still shoot reasonably well because I've been shooting slingshots and rifles and shotguns a very long time, so I'm practiced at being steady.

>>657082
I would suggest not going with a brand just because it's been recommended. Archery is highly individual and dependent on the body configuration of the person shooting. What is a great-shooting, comfortable bow for one person will shoot and feel like crap to another. Instead, try this:

-Look at all of the different bows they offer in your price range.
-Pick them up. See how they feel.
-Hold each one out at arm's length as if you had just completed a shot. See how it feels in your hand. Is it top heavy? Do you have to adjust your grip to keep it from tipping forward, back, or to one side or the other?
-How does the grip feel? Is it too fat? To thin? Just right? If it's too fat can you take the grip off and shoot off of the riser?
-Write down all of the ones you like so you can then read about stats and reviews (Take reviews with a grain of salt. You're looking for the general pros and cons that may affect your use.)

Start by going on how the bow feels even before you shoot it. A bow that feels bad is not going to be fun to shoot. If it balances poorly in your hand then, even with a stabilizer, you may have to fight its movement, which can affect your follow-through.

Once you have found ones that feel good just holding dead in the hand look at other things you may want to consider. What is the brace height? What is the axle-to-axle length (ATA)? Can draw length be adjusted in half-inch increments? Which ones have what you're looking for?

Once you have ones that feel good and have the features you want, then go shoot them. Shoot them all. Go home and think about your experiences with them. Go shoot them again. Narrow down your selection. Shoot the ones that make the cut some more.

Ultimately you want to walk away feeling you bought the best bow for YOU, not what the guy behind the counter likes. If your shop is a good one, they want you to buy what's best for you, too and shouldn't badger you into a particular brand or model.

>>657082
In terms of practice, it depends on how often you practice and how quickly you pick it up. I would say that if you get one soon and practice through the year you should be good by the 2016-2017 hunting season at least to 20 yards. If you can get some coaching, DO IT. A coach can tell you things about your form that will help. An hour's coaching session can honestly help you make improvements that would take weeks on your own.

Many people will say that you're good if you can hit within an 8" pie plate area at your ethical range, but I personally prefer to be within a 3" group at any given range from 30 yards on... the smaller the better. And that's ideally all shots. But then I practice a lot so that even my bad shots are what many would consider good shots for themselves. Keep in mind that if you can only shoot confidently out to 20 yards then that is how close you'll need to be to deer. And that may just be one season. As you get better and can shoot farther you can extend your ethical range. It's good to practice farther than you'd shoot a deer. I practice out to 40 yards right now because that's as far as I can get behind my house, but I would never take beyond a 30 yard shot at a deer at present. If nothing else, you rarely get a clear shot in the woods around here beyond that. Most deer in my area are taken from about 5-25 yards anyway.

There's a saying that can put it in a little bit of perspective: Target archers see how far they can get from their target. Bow hunters see how CLOSE they can get to their target.

And always, always remember that it is better to let the deer walk than take a bad shot. You're doing this for sport, not survival (presumably). If a shot doesn't feel good, don't take it and let the deer walk. It is better to have tales about "the one that got away" than "the one I had to go back the next day and track and didn't find because I gut shot it."

>>657082
Finally, Some other things to consider that I had to learn over time:
-When selecting a sight, choose one that can be set where the sight housing ring matches or is slightly inside your peep sight. That way you get a ring-on-ring effect that helps show if you're torquing the bow.

-When choosing a release, find one that fits your hand comfortably and can be set so that your first knuckle joint can rest on the trigger when you are at draw (it will pull forward, so what fits in your hand without tension may be too far with tension). Also, get one that lets you adjust the trigger tension. My first release was very light... hair trigger... this led to what they call "punching the release" and introduced a lot of inconsistency. Some people like a light trigger. I like a heavy one that lets me curl my finger around it without going off so that I can pull with my back muscles and shoot in kind of a back tension style rather than a trigger squeeze like a gun.

-Don't get too hung up on pulling X draw weight. Most people buy 70# bows and are hideously overbowed. They have to wrestle the bow when they draw back and can't hold steady for very long. For myself, I like a 50-60# bow better than a 60-70# bow, and even then I'm at about 54#. But I'm also on the ground in a ghillie suit or ASAT camo. I have to be able to draw slow and steady when deer aren't looking.

In the end, there are to main things that every archer has to discover for themselves:
1) What creates consistency for them.
2) What is comfortable for them - because comfort promotes consistency.

A guy who used to be a pro tournament shooter told me there really is no "right" and "wrong" in archery. There is only consistent and inconsistent. That said, a lot of what are considered "right" are the things that promote consistency for most folks. But if something different is more consistent for you, go with it.

Happy shooting!

>>653602
Try breaking a carbon arrow through your hand. The splinters look nasty as fuck.

>>654378
does it help to keep the poudages to minimum? I really only do 3D and target shooting and don't need the whole 30000lbs of draw weight with it.
...or are there downsides in keeping draw weight as small as possible?

>>657268

With what exactly? Avoiding arrow failures? In the context of 3D and target, I reckon not really.

You want the correct spine arrow for whatever combination of bow, draw length, draw weight and point weight you're shooting. You might shoot a 50-something pound bow with a 400 spine for example, but if you dropped your draw weight into the 40-something pound range, you should be shooting a 500 spine arrow (or whatever the spine chart says when your plug your variables into it). For target and 3D, precise spine (i.e. not going over-stiff like you seem to be suggesting) is supposed to give you best performance.This is all for compound mind you. For recurve or other trad,correct spine is even more important to your shooting - it's pretty fundamental to trad archery.

Weaker bows can have disadvantages - too little draw weight can kind of feel wrong re: back tension, mess with your release a bit, that sort of thing. I personally wouldn't do it.

Don't worry so much about it. Don't buy arrows from any source that isn't reputable. Shoot/buy decent carbons. Use a spine chart. Never shoot wood from a compound. Inspect your arrows for damage if you hear any nasty sounds on target. Stick to this stuff and you'll be fine. I shoot a 60# bow with a 340+ fps IBO with about 160 grains of total point weight and I don't have any holes in my hands.

If you want info re: spine and can't make sense of the charts, tell me your draw length, the draw weight of your bow, it's model and IBO speed and I'll have a look.

>>657268
>>657361

Point worth making - shooting unmarked 3D, speed is good. Flatter trajectory minimises the impact of ranging errors, that sort of thing. I've heard 270 fps bandied around as the ideal speed for 3D (assuming we're talking compound).

Somewhat related to the OP's question: What's a good bow to start my kid with? He's turning 9 in March and has finally expressed an interest in archery. I want to start with a light longbow or recurve, not a compound. I want him to learn traditional archery and branch into using a compound and accessories if he wants to later. I don't want to break the bank on it, either. He's like his dad was at that age and will probably shoot it to death or break the hell out of it in a couple years anyway.

>>657459
Samick Little Fox recurve maybe? Available in lengths from 48" to 58" and it's a takedown with limbs from 15# to 30#. Looked on lancaster archery and it's about $110.

Having never set up archery gear for kids, it sounds like the arrows will be the tricky part. I'd guess you'd need something in the region of a 1000 spine shaft. You've got me thinking about this myself now (when I have kids, will probably want to teach them archery).

Also, he'll need new arrows in a different spine every time he grows a few inches. You could get shafts cut to something like draw length + 2" with screw-in points and in a stiffer spine and start with enough point weight to make the arrow tune, then as your son gets taller, reduce point point weight as draw length increases. You might have some better ideas about this.

>>657459
A Bear Crusader.

>>652306
this this this a million times
its cheap relliable, and its a takedown too
mine has survived 5 years, and Ive beat the hell out of it. it tumbled down a 50 foot when I was out hunting and only suffered a few scufles.

>>657617
>>657826
Thanks, guys. I'll look those over.

>>653340
>paying 120$ instead of watching one of hundred free tutorials on the net.

If you think that you can only learn it with a pro, you are already not suited for it. If i would really like it, i'd be very eager to try and not wait til the course. Save your money, you idiot.

>>653518
>years to learn archery
>doesn't realise that learning is stretched to milk money from idiots who visit the courses.

It's the same bs like learning a martial art like wing chun for years and then getting completly fucked by someone who had 1.5 years kickboxing.

>>652306
I have that same bow, 45 pounder

>>657966
>>657958

I never said archery takes years - you got the wrong guy.

You don't go to a club beginners' course because you "need to learn with a pro". At least where I'm from, the courses are often required for club membership. Club membership is a useful thing - it gives you a place to shoot and access to a bunch of experienced archers (for form advice, kit advice, knowing where to buy, etc). Beats going it alone, developing bad form and being limited to 15 metre shots in your backyard.

>>658189
>>657966

On that, the kiwi guy who's thinking about going to the course sounds like he's got no idea where to start with draw weight and a few other things - which, as a beginner is pretty fair, especially considering you've got half the guys here telling beginners to start with 40# + and the other half saying 20-35#. Shooting club equipment for a bit will at least give him a reference point.

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I got a #40 horsebow on amazon as my first bow. I'm having fun with it but for some reason all my shoots are going wide left. I don't know what i'm doing wrong. I'm shooting 31" carbon arrows.

>>653569
One of the easiest things to learn?
As compared to what?

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>>652277
>>657082
>Realistically, how long should I practice shooting before trying to give hunting a go?

you shouldnt "give hunting a go" untill you have lawyer like knowledge of your local hunting legislation and you are 100% confident you can ethically and respectfully process and pack out the meat you have downed.

You should probably just start with some youtubes of people quartering their game in the field and really search inside yourself if you think you are ready to reach inside a 140lb+ animals warm corpse, pull its stomach and intestines out with your bare hands, and then filet meat quarters off of its body, plastic bag them, decapitate the head, and pack all of it out before it spoils.


probably should focus more on that.


-love, concerned 4chan hunt-thread guy

>>658385

My first guess would be that your arrows are too stiff and aren't flexing enough around the handle of the bow to fly straight forward - this is assuming you're shooting off the left side of the bow.

A horse bow with no shelf is going to either need weaker arrows or more point weight than a modern recurve. What arrows are you shooting and how tall are you?

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>>658402
2015's gear
>Hoyt Carbon Spyder 34, 70# 28.0inch draw
>Z5 Cam #2 for compounds, being at "the top of your cam will yield the highest FPS based on your draw length.
>Trijicon accupin sight (calibrated on arrow speed)
>Hamskea Versa rest
>old "bee stinger" stabilizer
other
>Nikon laser range finder
>Scott Archery Mongoose XT release.
>Easton, FMJ carbon arrows

>>658385
>>658406
(re: your arrows, it'd be good to know spine, brand/model, how much your points/inserts weigh and if you've got feathers or vanes on there)

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>>658407
>>652277
Something to keep in mind for "new" Archers or those who are just curious.

>Support your Local Archery pro shop

:Archery pro shops are almost always mom and pop affairs, and will be staffed by people who have been shooting their entire lives. These places will help you choose equipment, get it properly fitted and will almost always have an indoor range to sight in new bows, speed test, and try out things you might like to buy. Staff will be on hand to help you through this process

:Many of the best brands (Hoyt, Mathews etc.) are ONLY carried by approved dealers and you will not be able to find them except for these Pro shops.

>I WANT TO SAVE MONEY

:pawn shops. PAWN SHOPS. Especially if you are in the midwest, heartland, the South or Texas, many pawnshops will have fantastic Archery setups, complete with every accessory, that a poor soul pawned off to buy drugs, or booze. These can be excellent places to find CRAZY deals on what would be otherwise expensive purchases.

>DONT EVER DO THIS

:buying from a "dicks" or "gander", cabelas,etc.. If you can, never buy your actual bow from these places. The bows there have been handled, fondled, mistreated, are of less than desireable brands and are sold by the big bad corporate suckass's no one likes. These stores will be limited in scope and knowledge vs DEDICATED PRO SHOPS with helping you make good choices, in what is surely an expensive purchase.

Arrows, targets and accessories are where i would limit my purchases to at big chain stores.

>>658402
>>658407
>>658410
Do you have autism?

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>>652277
http://www.eregulations.com/indiana/hunting/hunting-seasons/

The DNR of your state will have an easy to follow guide for Game, Season and the approved weaponry. These laws will vary a great deal from state to state.

Real tree has a number of 'good' reads for those looking to gain knowledge about whitetail or deer in general, the most common North American Hunt

http://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/articles

http://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/articles/the-best-scent-strategies-for-the-rut

http://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/articles/why-your-guide-hates-you

http://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/articles/10-bowhunting-tips-from-tyler-jordan

http://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/articles/bowhunting-whitetails-from-the-ground

http://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/articles/10-apps-all-deer-hunters-need

among the many others on the site will give beginners some fundamental knowledge. Dedicated Hunting forums will be the best so "hunt" around for them.

Hunting tags

http://modern-hunters.com/hunting-seasons-and-tags/

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>>658419
>NOW MOST IMPORTANT

http://www.michigandnr.com/publications/pdfs/huntingwildlifehabitat/deer_field-dressing.pdf

http://www.realtree.com/timber-2-table/how-to-field-dress-a-deer

http://huntfish.mdc.mo.gov/hunting-trapping/species/deer/deer-getting-started/field-dressing-your-deer

For discussions sake Deer will be the topic. Learning to field dress your game, is by far and away, THE MOST IMPORTANT takeaway you will EVER have with hunting.

>study study study, Observe observe observe

it is absolutely CRITICAL you take very seriously this part of the lesson. The adrenaline rush and shock of dressing your first animal, on the cold forest floor will stay with you forever. Make sure that you are well read and have studied firmly the animal you are hunting and how to dress and prepare the meat properly. Know how to make the absolute MOST of the meat you have taken, and come prepared to heft it out of the forest either by foot or by ATV.

>PLEASE REMEMBER
just because you see a monster, radioactive sized Buck, if you cant pack it all out, cant eat it all, or dont have anyone to share the burden or meat with when you are home, please Let the animal walk away. Ethical and respectful hunting is LESSON NUMBER ONE and is to never be forgotten. Also if you are very far way or will be gone for a length of time, having ICE, coolers, tin foil, plastic bags, cellophane and storage bags is a MUST.

montreal steak season in the back pocket, and fresh venison minutes old, will bring out something primal inside of you.

RESPECT THE ANIMAL. (lol and make sure its dead before you attempt to dress it. Might find out its not so dead after all, when you slip your knife into it.)

>>658408
it's these http://www.amazon.com/Best-selling-Targeting-Fletching-Feathers-Replacement/dp/B00YWPCG74/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451879498&sr=8-1&keywords=feather+arrows

>>658435

also i'm 5'11"

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>>652277
The best survival bow it the one you can build yourself. Mine have all been less than 20 USD and have lasted at least 5 years.

It's not for everyone but if you want to learn to make bows check out the Bowyer's Bible series (4 books)

>>655089
This guy knows what's up. However, simply a flat blunted end will kill almost any small game. So knapping, while extremely useful, is not necessary

>>658435

Your draw length should be ballpark 28", so ideally your arrows should be something like 29" to maybe 30" at the longest, but that's not the most pressing issue and you should actually get your draw length measured before running off and getting arrows cut/buying new ones.

According to the link, your arrows are a 450 spine and have 100 grain points. They are in fact way too stiff. You might get them shooting better if you replaced your points with much heavier ones. See if you can't find a few field points from 150 to 200 grains, try them on your arrows and see how they fly. My gut feeling is 200 grains, maybe a little more, but go about it gradually. You basically want to shoot with each new point weight a bunch and see where your arrows are hitting. If this is a spine issue, more point weight should create more flex and bring them in to where you're aiming.

Ideally get some new arrows at a pro shop cut to the right length for you in maybe a 500 or 600 spine, maybe gold tip traditionals or something like that. You'll still need a fair bit of point weight to make those work at a 29" shaft length (225ish grains for the 500 and 160ish for the 600).

Takeaways though - get those heavy field points and try them out. Get your draw length measured. Ask a pro shop about new arrows/spine/point weight for you.

>>658454
>>658435
Generally speaking it's a good idea to avoid cheap carbon arrows (covered earlier in thread, with pictures even). Read some of the reviews and it sounds a bit dodgy - after reading them, I reckon you should definitely get the gold tip trads. They're like $100/dozen, better quality all round, easier to play around with components and will have the advantage of being set up for you and your bow rather than just trying to make what you've got work.

>>658189
Kiwi guy here, >>658227
is pretty much right. This thread itself was one of the reasons I decided to take the classes; you have people saying all sorts of draw weights for a beginner, every website has their own opinion too (and says you'll have a horrible time if you don't follow their specific advice because everyone else is a hack and you should ignore everything they've said because I've been an archery coach since before the hundred years war!), and it's implicit on their website that you need to go to the course to attend their (free) beginners morning sessions. I can go to the class and be completely comfortable knowing they expect me to know nothing, rather than turning up one day and being "that guy" with a bow I have no idea how to use.

I figured that taking the lessons would likely save me a lot of time getting the fundamentals right, and potentially save me money if I bought the wrong bow (or at least relieve me of that nagging buyers remorse feeling).

I just wish they would get back to me soon, although it's holidays for most people now, and they're probably swamped with kids who got archery stuff for Christmas because of Hunger Games and shit.

>>658407
God damn, that bow is sexy.
.
.
.
.
You kinda a look like a poopskin, though.

>>654650

>Sorry, but there's a reason people only lived into their 40's before modern times

That is false. People regularly reached 60+ before modern times.

Also shooting a bow is really easy. A kid can learn in an hour. So.

Any good place with info to learn basics of bows for a complete novice

>>658549
Gold tip trads are fucking nice. Those heavy shafts do well with a lot of traditional bows
>>661551
Shooting a bow is easy. Doing it well is another story

>>658419
This dude has some serious love for being a Hoosier & I couldn't shared it more!! Nice Indy tat

>>652306
I have the same bow

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Dammit New York, let me have my fucking bow.

This might be a really stupid question but are there any compound bows that have the aesthetic of a recurve? Not a big fan of how it seems like all compound bows are bent inwards at the end

>>665498
Nope.

Does anyone know if I can carry my bow while hiking in california?

>>665498
Kind of. A lot of cheap bows (and more expensive ones made for finger shooting) have a 40"+ axle to axle length and a vague longbow kind of shape (I know, not recurve). There're the oneida bows too, that have recurved limbs but work off a pretty bizarre system. Not cheap though, and a conventional modern compound ought to easily outperform them. There are also compounds which I think I made for flight archery that have recurved limbs with cams on the limb tips, but I don't know the makes/models. Some older compound designs too.

What you're talking about with modern compounds is parallel/past-parallel/pre-tensioned limbs. They're actually great - when the bow is shot, the upper limb recoils up and the lower limb recoils down (as opposed to both going forwards), cancelling each other's shock out. Limbs like that are also short, stiff and don't move very far when you draw the bow, so they waste less energy returning to their original position when shot (as opposed to a bow with long, heavy limbs with more travel in them), giving you a more efficient (i.e. faster) bow.

Honestly, try shooting a modern compound, or even just looking at more of them. I used to not be a fan of the look myself, but as I shot more and learnt more about the technicalities of compound archery (and got an awesome bow of my own), I came to appreciate it.

I don't own any of the following, but I reckon the mathews monster safari, the bowtech rpm 360 and the hoyt defiant are all pretty attractive. I really wish I owned an rpm 360 though.

>>666020
This was actually a very informative post, anon, it helped a lot. The oneida bows are actually very unique looking.

I remember reading somewhere that the design is a lot better for shooting, especially for quicker shooting, but I guess I was never really crazy about the aesthetic, which I know is pretty stupid hence why I qualified my question as such.

The bows you posted are beautiful too, I guess I just saw too many overy complex bows that had no thought given to the look of it and had that annoying (though understandable) camoflauge on it. If you know of any more bows please post. Though I will say don't feel the need to do it for someone in dire need of a bow fast, I don't have time to do much of anything now of days due to post grad school but I want to get into camping when I graduate and wanted to carry around a bow when I go because I know they are fun to shoot and protection (mainly the first one though)

>>666119
If you just want to dick around innawoods then a traditional bow is going to serve you much better as well as almost certainly cost less. IIRC the Sammick Sage retails for ~$150 and even if you tack on another ~$120 for half a dozen good arrows, a glove, a quiver and an armguard then you're still going to come in probably a bill under what it would cost for just a bare-bones entry-level compound without any of the bells and whistles that are virtually mandatory - sights, a release, etc.

Plus, shooting traditional is way more rewarding than shooting modern IMO. It's like fly-fishing versus spin-casting.

>>666119
All good. (also, to clarify, I've never built a flight bow in my life - meant to type "are made for flight archery").

Camo is pretty common for obvious reasons, but there's usually a range of finishes available for most bows. Flat black or flat tan might do a better job of keeping things tasteful if you're not a fan of the camo. Though, on pretty bows, the Mathews Halon and Halon X arguably look even nicer in camo than it does in black. The Mathews Chill series is nice looking too (in spite of what this seems to suggest about me, I actually shoot a Bowtech).

That sounds like a great plan re: camping with bow. Hunt small game for the pot and all that. Another recommendation: give The Witchery of Archery and Hunting With The Bow And Arrow a read. Both are available for free as pdfs and I reckon you'd enjoy them given the interest in archery camping.

>>666020
So I've been looking up those oneida bows. They look really cool, but I can't find a site that sells them and as such can't find anything that talks about their pull back weight etc. You said a compound bow could easily outperform, any way you could elaborate?

>>666518
Not that guy, but compound bows are very powerful and very consistent thanks to the mechanical aids and that translates into more accuracy and strength over a much longer range plus they're very easy to use. On the downside, they have many, many more points of failure than a traditional bow and anything beyond a superficial issue will usually require the services of a bowyer.

Also, buying an Oneida as a starter bow is squarely into "oh shit nigger what are you doing" territory as a NIB Kestrel runs about $1300 and even used ones on eBay cost more than most other NIB bows.

>>666518
Hey, that guy here. Oneida's site doesn't list IBO speed, but a few guys have chronographed Oneida bows at IBO specs (i.e. 70#, 30" draw length, 350 grain arrow, don't know how much weight they had on the string) and found that they're all ballpark 300fps, some slightly faster or slower depending on the model. In terms of draw weight, it looks like they all have about a 20# range of adjustment, most models being 35-55# or 50-70#.

Current entry level bows tend to shoot 310-315fps and anything up from entry level tends to shoot 320fps or faster. Quite a few modern bows shoot in the 340s or 350s, with the fastest available hitting 370fps, for reference. Into the bargain, you're average hunting bow is a lot more compact than an oneida bow, even the long axle to axle ones.

Speed is pretty desirable in a compound if you want to hunt or shoot unmarked distance. A fast arrow flies with a flatter trajectory, so if you've made a range estimation error, it won't be as far off as a slower arrow would be. Relevant to both hunting and unmarked distance 3D/field shoots. For hunting, more arrow weight gives better penetration, but heavier arrows are comparatively slower, so the faster your bow is to begin with, the faster heavy arrows will go, generating even more momentum.

Fast bows are also great if you shoot lower draw weights (say less than 60#) or have a shorter draw length - both of those things cost you speed, so the faster the bow is, the more speed you'll have "left over".

>>666583
In practice, you shouldn't have too many issues with a compound bow though. When you buy it, get it set up for you with correct draw length/peep sight height & alignment, get the rest level with your d-loop/nocking point, get centre shot set on the arrow rest, sight it in for 10-20 metres and then paper tune in the pro shop. When you're done with that, that's the vast majority of the work done - sight in the rest of your distances and you're pretty much good.

Wax the string/cables regularly and get them replaced every couple of years and don't do anything stupid with it (like try to shoot a short ATA bow with fingers, or dry fire).

>>666827
Right. My point was just that correcting mechanical failures is generally more difficult with a compound bow and there are many more things that can go wrong - despite the advertising, most compound bows are meant to live in a case and come out to play when needed. If >>665498 is going to be dragging his bow around the woods for shits and giggles, he'd probably have less grief from a cheap traditional bow.

>>666839

A trad bow is definitely a simpler piece of kit, and I've got nothing against them (if I had a enough spare cash now, I'd throw it at a bear kodiak or grizzly in a heartbeat), but I reckon you're overstating the mechanical issues aspect of compound bows. People backpack in and camp out on long spot and stalk hunts with compounds and it doesn't seem to be a major issue for them, even on mountain hunts - I agree that a trad bow has less points of failure, but a good quality compound with quality components that's been well set up doesn't really fail terribly much.

That said, I wouldn't discourage him from buying a trad bow either, but I guess I'd advise him to shoot both (and, in compounds, probably shoot a few of them) so he can get to know his preferences and make decisions based on that. Hell, even get one of each.

Actually, a point worth making on in the woods shits and giggles archery is that a compound is going to be a lot heavier to carry around (I shoot a carbon riser bow, but even that loaded up is around 5 pounds). Might lose less arrows with a compound though.

>>666583
Yeah, I wasn't going to get that as a starter. Though it is really stupid to mention I had a small compound as a kid (like 20lb drawback walmart tier) and understood how easy it is to get good with a compound compared to a recurve.

>>666825
Ok, so even though it is shy of the heavy hitting compounds its not pea shooting gimmick shit then. That's good to know, if I do go on with my plan (and get a really good paying job as is also part of my plan) I would get a compound and a oneida (or a similarly fashioned bow) so I can use both styles, just wanted to make sure I wouldn't be throwing money away and this is one of the few boards I can trust on this site. I take it 300fps is more than sufficient to down wild animals

>>666999
On oneidas, I've never shot one, but the couple of guys I know who have (target compound archers) were not fans. It would definitely work for finger shooting/bow fishing though.

That's 300fps with at 70 pounds with a 30" draw length shooting a 350 grain arrow - i.e. a lot of draw weight with a draw length longer than most people's throwing the lightest arrow you can safely shoot - it's a standardised measure of speed, not what you'll actually attain.

300fps is broadly equivalent to a trad bow in terms of speed. With a 300fps IBO, it'll work but you will need to think about your arrow choice and construction and tailor it to what you want to hunt (basically taking the same approach as trad bowhunters).

You will almost certainly want to go heavy for larger game, sacrificing speed for penetration. Probably do everything you can to maximise penetration too (e.g. small diameter shafts, high FOC arrows, two-blade single bevel fixed blade broad heads). Small game you could still go light and fast for though.

>>667002
cont.

I personally wouldn't buy an oneida given the price vs performance. I also shoot a release aid and bow fishing regs are a bit of a pain in the ass where i am, so it doesn't really have a niche for me.

I can get being into the aesthetic though and if you're set on buying one, do your research and ideally try and find one to have a shot with (could be hard to pull off).

Like, it's not a waste of money if you love it and it works for you, but know what you'd be getting yourself into.

Hey guys, wondering if anyone has experience with feather fletching for compounds?

Have pretty much always shot blazers in a helical 3 fletch but have been considering trying 4" parabolic feathers, reasons being less rear weight for a little more FOC and a little more drag for fixed blade steering, as well as a bit of paranoia I've been developing lately over potential vane contact with my drop-away/cables (tearing paper pretty well though). My bow's probably doing somewhere between 275-280 fps with a 430 grain arrow.

Local pro shop guy reckons my set up will chew up feathers fast and that the whole thing's a dumb idea. Anyone know any different?

>>667031
No, he's right. Compound bows chew up feathers pretty quickly (even with a fall-away rest) and furthermore feathers are less effective at higher speeds and slow arrows down much more rapidly so they're not what you want for distance shooting. Just get low-profile target vanes and a heavier point if you're honestly worried about it.

>>667204

I'm sitting on about 15% FOC at the moment with a little less than 160 grains up front - probably can't go any heavier without being underspined. I've considered going lower profile vanes, but as mentioned I've got fixed blades. Might be a little over-worried about it - I like shooting long range and like the technical stuff so I guess that translates into wanting to make it all perfect.

>>667261
Well are you shooting at something that you need a cut-on-impact head for? Because if not then just get a mechanical; they shoot like field points so you can get away with much less fletching.

>>656099
Sometimes I miss the target...
Or worse, just hitting the targets edges, with the arrow taking off to the nearest tree.
Have had arrows disappearing into the ground, never to be found.
Need deep targets to stop the arrows too, so having a over powered bow is not without its drawbacks.

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>>653599
At least it was a wooden arrow.

>>655302
>>654649
>>653599
This is what happens when you use a damaged arrow or an arrow with too low spine for your bow. The arrow technically breaks after you release the string, and the rear part of the shaft goes straight into your left hand.
Seen to many of this.

>>652277
Bows gotta fit you. Bottom line.

What's the cheapest decent bow I can get outside of a selfbow?

>>668794
Sammick Sage

>>653713

I too, bought stupid shit at flea markets as a child.

>>656130

I enjoy using crossbows, because it angers the pope.

>>668794
i asked myself the same question and got me a bear titan with 30# made of fiberglass; its about 40$.
its just for backyard target shooting and fun at the 30 meters i have.
But its slower and less accurate than a similar takedown recurve, also not adjustable in the draw weight.
So my next bow will also be a sage or something similar.

>>668738
> be shooting woodies
>place two shots right next to each other in target
>quick glance at arrows as I retrieve, look fine
>they didn't go in the rocks or anything, why should I look them over thoroughly, amiright?
>second arrow had hit first inside the target and left a small break in it
>arrow splinters into 3 pieces as I release
>rear of arrow glances off of thumb nail
>string does some weird shit and manages to bruise my bicep in a new and painful way I've seen before

And that's why we carefully inspect/flex our arrows in between every shot. I got lucky there, my hand easily could have turned up in one of the pictures in this thread.

Any advice on shooting with a thumb ring? Will be attempting for the first time today,

>>672057
Maybe do it from a horse?

anyone interested in archery hunting should read:

>hunting with the bow & arrow
>by Saxton Pope

absolutely fantastic source of information. not too technical either. very vivid description