>>647092 it is for the people. if you dont like how theyre managed, you work with other people who agree to advocate for a management change until you have a sizable interest group.
while resorting to Ad Hominem is a lame approach to an argument, Cliven Bundy himself is not one to talk about public land. id like to flood that fuckers mailbox with copies of A Sand County Almanac in the off chance the last few chapters hit home.
>>647092 Fuck no. After working for the National Parks and the Forest Service I can say confidently that most people don't know two shits about managing land properly. Cliven Bundy definitely doesn't know shit about managing land because he's attempting to cattle ranch in a god damn desert. For instance, in Colorado, where it's nice and dry, land requirements for cattle are 40 acres PER cow. In a place like Missouri, it's 4 acres for a cow and calf pair.
I wish they would take the Forest Service land and give it back to the states or local governments. The local trails and campgrounds are run by, in my case, by the City, the State, and the Forest Service. The City and State trails have garbage cans, dog poop bags, nice signage outlining do's and don'ts. The trails are maintained and some of them are accessible for people with disabilities. The Forest Service trails are shit, washed out in places and downed trees, and the signs are full of bullet holes or are broken. The Park Rangers are polite and ask "how's it goin?" The Forest Service runs around with AR-15's "you guys better not be partying or burning pallets on my watch"
>>647354 The forest service is horribly underfunded and understaffed. Places where there used to be 20 people working, there are now 3 and most of the staffers are having to do multiple jobs and are horribly overtaxed. If you want to the forest to get better, get them more funding.
>>647531 lol...the government already leases BLM and NF lands to industry its not all open and free. Also near me there is a private property that functions the same thing as a state park so no just cause something is private doesn't make it impossible for nature conservation.
>>647470 Most native americans (common tribal members) have no real understanding or appreciation of good land management. they intentionally ignore and refuse any modern knowledge or expertise on best management practices when it comes to land and natural resources. it's a cultural thing. they're locked into some kind of eternal rebellion against white man's world. they want money and stuff and they want special rights and privileges but they dont take car of anything. waste, abuse and littering is all they do. they just do whatever the "feel like" doing at the time and leave garbage and trash everywhere. they are like hoodrat niggers sometimes.
>>647555 >Private owners treat the land much better than governments
>cut all the trees down >sell the timber >mono-crop farm it for a few years >stop farming it altogether because you suck at farming and have destroyed and lost the topsoil, depleted all the nutrients, and have saturated the soil with long persistence pesticides >let it grow into an unsightly mess of invasive weeds and saplings >stays this way for years/decades because they don't want to sell or lease it
>>647530 If the Indians can prove they own the land they can have it back. Too bad for them, Indians never invented writing or wheels or weapons beyond a pointy stick or even had the concept of ownership as they just raided each other constantly with tribes growing or shrinking depending on who was more savage.
I live in a town near public land and there's a lot of animosity between ranchers and the BLM. While the BLM could probably be a little more practical in the way they manage their land, the ranchers are fucking awful. They're selfish and bully hunters who walk near their cattle even though it's not their private property. One of my dad's friends even thinks the BLM goes out in the summer and intentionally lights fires to burn up cattle and ranches.
The BLM is very good at what they do, considering their very limited budget. And generally the BLM agents/employees are doing it because they love the work and mostly care about what they do. they are not getting paid very much at all. The BLM is one agency that mostly doesn't deserve the "evil govt" agency label. It's just that indians, ignorant rednecks and white trash have no concept or understanding of good resource management
>>647366 >The forest service is horribly underfunded and understaffe Not where I live. The have multi million dollar buildings that house maybe 4 or 5 employees. Someone even wrote our local paper once complaining about all of the new Forest Service vehicles park out front, they then moved them to the back of the building. >>647603 see pic
>>647638 It's actually insane that we let ranchers graze on public land. They're part of the reason hyperflammable, invasive cheatgrass is replacing native grasses in a lot of the dry parts of the country.
>>647821 This. There's a forest service station around the umpqua river that is close to not a whole lot and it's huge. Asked for help with an old hobo flashing a knife at people on a nearby trail and they were like, "hmmm, we'll get to it at some point". Like 20 trucks in the parking lot.
>>647638 My sister and her husband work for the BLM, at a lot of their postings they were instructed not to wear anything that might identify them as BLM during their off hours because of threats and harassment.
One of the guys on my brother in law's fire crew gave his BLM sweatshirt to his mom, she was actually chased out of grocery store by crazy locals when she wore it.
>>648287 True. Most of them don't even spend time in the forest. They primarily fly around to conferences to make up new rules to screw the public or take bribes from lobbyists so companies can rape the land
>>648208 >And you have to get their permission and pay money to use it in any way You have to pay money for things like firewood tags but it's like $20 for five cords of wood. Compare that to guys who sell privately and it's $300 for a single cord. And what kind of permission are you talking about? There are $5 camping fees for designated campgrounds with certain services but dispersed sites are free and you don't need any sort of permission to camp in them. Also these dispersed sites are like 99.9% of public land.
>>648287 >That's a forest service LEO. And we have never had them before until recently. My point is that the Forest Service builds multimillion dollar buildings for a few employees, has an over abundance of vehicles, and lets the trails go to shit. This is an example of our local trailhead sign (or whatever it's called). While our local and state trails are great.
>>648604 I forgot to mention that the second sign from the left, the white sign with black print, is a warning that's 2 years old that part of the trail washed away. The locals bushwacked a new route because they never fixed it.
>>648797 It's not a straw man, it's the point of the whole discussion. The feds keep the land available and local governments don't.
>>648795 >A weak constitution and a bad superintendent will lead to a poorly managed lands whether private or public. Yep, but at least I can go hiking on the poorly managed public lands. Private lands have these "no trespassing" and "stay out" and "private property" signs all over them.
>>648797 the good thing about state land is there isn't much of it so it's relatively easy to maintain. in nevada where I live almost 57 million acres is federally owned. i'm not even entirely sure how much is state and parks land but i'm going to guess it's less than 100,000 acres. so keeping every single trail on fed property is impossible. this scenario is the same in pretty much every western state.
also if the states took back all this federal land they wouldnt have the budget to maintain a large majority of it so they would sell it off.
>>648480 >>648526 >Link to story? http://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article43673037.html
Goes something like this: >cattle got loose and found it's way onto a road >gets hit by car >cops called to scene >cops arrive and start gut shooting and mag dumping on it >cops call owner to put it down because cops are shit shots >owner comes >get pulled away by police then shot dead by police as he attempts to put his own cattle down with his rifle >wife has a heart attack as she witnesses police murder her husband
>>648604 It's a pretty rare occurence. Almost all the USFS trails I've been on are maintained well. In general ranger districts are small and have very few vehicles. I know this because I work for the USFS and we are constantly hurting for vehicles. Obama laid down a presidential mandate to reduce fleet size so we are restricted from getting more vehicles.
Also the USFS has had LEOs for decades. If you think they are a new position it shows just how ill informed you are.
>>648919 Forest service trails suck. So do state park trails. In California all they do is collect fees and put up trail closed signs crying about no money. They have multi million $ buildings in the parks fucking up the environment and scenery, but none of the people in them do anything for the park. Literally the only employees you see are the fee collectors. Government workers are worse than welfare niggers.
>>648971 And that's tens of billions of $ being wasted on cutting off access to government land being paid to fascists who can murder you if you dare go outside. Plus if you care about the environment then you would support firing the entire BLM and forest service
You mean food stamps? Those are more akin to slavery reparations because every black person in the USA was a slave. Even the millions that Obama imports from Africa deserve reparations because they are forced to live in this racist society
>>648993 A good example was the last government shutdown. The park service spent $200 million hiring armed guards to keep people out of parks (valley forge, statue of liberty, vietnam wall)over 4 days because they had sent all their employees home with pay because they wanted to send the message that the government is above the law and any attempt to subvert the master\slave relationship will be thwarted. You might not remember because it was about 4 years ago
>>649064 You do realize there's a reason the NPS closed down the parks, right? It has nothing to do with some kind of "master/slave" relationship. NPS land is sovereign which means they are responsible for SAR, road maintenance and general public safety on that land. If they allowed people to enter parks there would be nobody there to ensure their safety or the safety of the natural resources within those parks. You want people just carting off pieces of Anasazi ruins from Mesa Verde? How about folks executing bears for fun in Yosemite Valley? You have any how much garbage would accumulate in a single weekend in a place like Great Smoky Mountains NP? Would you like to see someone spray painting graffiti on the Liberty Bell? It would be fucking anarchy with no employees the maintain the parks. I personally helped close every single public facility on USFS land because there would be no one to clean the bathrooms or ensure public safety in our buildings.
>>649075 An yet there they were keeping people out. So.. Guess they could afford people there despite the shutdown?
It was nothing more than the usual bullshit posturing you see any time someone threatens to take the governments money away. Like when a city wants to cut taxes and they're like oh noes better shut down the volunteer fire department! Police gonna be funded as ever though, someone has to write all those tickets for minor bullshit.
>>649117 I was the guy tracking bats that I had caught the night before in a mist net, taking soil samples for a research project to determine the habitat requirements an endangered salamander had, checking on nest boxes to do a census of flying squirrels, electrofishing in remote streams to see what their health was, or digging up invasive plants.
>>647446 >Public=for the people But it's not treated that way. "People" should be able to do what they want on public lands, hunt, ride ATV, graze cattle, snowmobile. The fucking environmentalists are the only ones who get their way with NOTHING being done on so many public lands. That doesn't sound public to me.
Not everyone is a redneck retard like you. Just because something is public doesn't mean YOU get to do whatever YOU want. When I'm out in nature I don't want to hear a bunch of hootin, hollerin dipshits muffing on atvs. Its your own fault you can't be trusted.
There was a snowmobile club that volunteered to do some trail maintenance in an Oregon National Forest recently, they brought in rented heavy equipment and proceeded to over $200,000 worth of damage, including uprooting trees, smashing culverts and tearing up roads.
So no, private parties do not do a better job of maintaining public lands.
>>649530 The forest service goes in builds roads and buildings on pristine land. They also do bogus shit like fire suppression which makes fires way worse causing millions of acres to be permanently destroed every year. Cmon dude everyone knows the government is corrupt
>>649834 I remember when the forest service just drove old pickups, now what they are driving looks like military grade vehicles but I guess that's what you need to stop families from picnicing in the woods
I use BLM land in various places on damn near a weekly basic (shooting, fishing, dirt-biking, camping) and I think you're probably just some angsty fuckwit who got caught by a ranger fucking a rabbit or some shit.
BLM does a damn fine job in my area. Them and the NFS need to spend more on fire prevention operations, but that's up to the fucks in congress
I get your idea but it's retarded. If people could just do whatever they wanted, it would be stripped of wildlife by day 2 (+100's of hunting accidents), full of garbage by day 14 and it would be a post-apocalyptic wasteland from thereon after.
>Drudge is touting the “record heat” forecast for Christmas Eve, even though most of the country will be below normal temperature. The best Drudge could come up with was 86 degrees at Orlando.
>Christmas Eve 1955 was much warmer. Three fourths of the country was over 60 degrees, and Ashland Kansas, Geary Oklahoma and Encinal Texas were all over 90 degrees. Fort Lauderdale was 85 degrees. All of the stations below were over 60 degrees on Christmas Eve, 1955.
>Last winter, the East Coast had record cold. That was ignored because it was “less than 1% of the Earth.” But this week, the Eastern US defines the global climate.
>In Irving Berlin’s 1954 musical “White Christmas” – the story line was 70 degrees in Vermont on Christmas eve and no snow. That was why they were “Dreaming of a White Christmas”
Fire suppression is kind of a damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-don't sort of deal. Fire ecologists and management officers are well aware of the effects of strict suppression tactics but they're also aware of how the general public would react if a small incident that could have been contained in the initial attack phase turned into an expensive project fire that destroyed multiple structures.
New management plans are calling for less immediate suppression and more monitoring where appropriate. This is already the case for lightning caused fires that start in wilderness areas.
>>647092 Ver few things worry me more than giving public land to private organizations. The government might be shitty, but it's better than private corporations with unrestricted access to untapped natural resources. Even if they were smart enough to keep a few token parks open for tourist revenue like Yosemite and Yellowstone, they would fuck up so much great, lesser known land.
>>648027 Probably illegal use and destruction of public land and other illegal activities or they wouldn't have to hide them out on public land, but FUK DA GUBERMENT FOR OPRESSING ME, I should be able to do whatever I want with public land!!!!
>>648820 >if the states took back all this federal land they wouldnt have the budget to maintain a large majority of it so they would sell it off This is the real reason many are lobbying for the land to switch to state management, because it would necessitate selling off most of the land to private ownership and there would be a lot of money to be made in the process for people with wealth and connections to get it on the cheap. But never underestimate the ability of uneducated retards to vote against their own interests if it means they can stick it to big government/liberals/sjws/jews/whatever other boogieman.
>>650018 Yeah good ol' bundy just want to have a picnic with his whole government subsidized herd of cows with public land resources as the meal but the big mean government just bullies and oppresses him ;^)
>>654901 Sounds like we both agree that the status quo is bad but you want to continue rewarding crooked politicians and businessmen and I would prefer the land be turned over to the citizens where it can be used and protected
>>647092 >Cliven Bundy Fuck no. These memetarded, knee-jerk anti-gov't "conservatives" just want one thing, more free shit for doing nothing. To top it off, their take on the planet and its land comes from their holy jebus bible thumping cohorts, "let's fuck the world up the ass because jesus is coming to save us anyway".
If they're going to give the land to assholes like Craven Moorehead and his band of weekend warriors then they should make sure to give me a small piece so I can sit on the high ground and scope these fuckwads from a half mile away while they play Army Man down yonder.
The land belongs to the people not to a person. Fuck these discharged-from-the-National-Guard-for-diabeetus shit for brains idiots.
Everyone in this thread is literally emotional about desert.
Out of all of you who live in Nevada, have you ever driven in the eastern half of the state which is all desert? There is not a lick of anything going on. The Federal Government ought to part with at least a chunk of the land it has out in the middle of Nevada because it will literally never be good for ANYTHING. If someone wants to try I would not be opposed to letting them.
If you don't live in Nevada, imagine you live in a giant wonderful desert. Now imagine only 2% of the whole desert you can live in, the other 98% you can't do a whole lot in.
Hate to bump this fucking thread but everyone interested should check out what is going on in Oregon. Bundy's son and co. are occupying the Malheur National Wildlife refuge and are demanding the government cede control of the 1 million + acre Malheur National Forest. They plan to graze, mine, and log these publicly owned lands, with no more claim to them than you or I
>>657831 "By law, arson on federal land carries a five-year mandatory minimum sentence. When the Hammonds were originally sentenced, they argued that the five-year mandatory minimum terms were unconstitutional and the trial court agreed and imposed sentences well below what the law required based upon the jury’s verdicts. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, however, upheld the federal law, reasoning that “given the seriousness of arson, a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense.” The court vacated the original, unlawful sentences and ordered that the Hammonds be resentenced “in compliance with the law.” In March 2015, the Supreme Court rejected the Hammonds’ petitions for certiorari. Today, Chief Judge Aiken imposed five year prison terms on each of the Hammonds, with credit for time they already served."
They might be scumbags but they went to trial, the American people found their sentencing to be unconstitutional, they were given proper sentencing, served their the time. The End. Except it wasn't the end and the feds were all like how dare someone say we are doing something unconstitutional, back to prison plebs.
I don't want to see any farm to federal agents because they don't make the law but at the same time if the people don't stand up to the government they will simply do what they want.
>>657901 The government stole all the land of the wildlife refuge from the original settlers in the last 30 years. NO one is allowed to use the wildlife refuge except the government employees. In fact even the wildlife is fleeing the refuge because it has been mismanaged.
The arson case is related because the Hammond family has refused to sell their land so the BLM are harrassing the family to bankrupt them. They are bullies with guns. It's well documented but I'm sure you would rather remain an ignorant government shill.
It's all detailed in here. The government stole the land and is jailing the last private landowner. Sorry shills but the government is a pack of criminals and I appreciate the patriots who seized this land and will give it back to its rightful owners.
The entire history of this refuge is criminal as it was set up as an injun reservation with no indians
>>658086 You're objectively wrong. I don't take a dime of welfare and have always worked full time to support myself, Cliven Bundy takes a healthy slice of the $38 Billion in tax payer dollars that the beef industry gets every year.
>>658080 >far right blog with little to no citation >says the land was purchased from surrounding land owners, not stolen >report claiming birds are leaving refuge is a non public report that's more than 40 years old >makes no mention of the refuge only being accessible to government employees
>>658095 >>658087 What subsidy does Bundy get? >>658097 Bundy isn't a criminal >>658099 The government won't stop harrassing Hammond until they get his land. And I heard those patriots are going to start unwinding all the land grabs and give the stolen land back to its owners. The feds need to leave harney county and fuck off back to Washington DC.
The whole thing is ridiculous since the settlers created the original conditions to attract the wildlife and then the wildlifes presence is used as an excuse to steal the land.
>>658101 It's got citations you just don't like the facts coming out
>>658106 The federal beef subsidies that have been mentioned in this thread several times. Big ranchers like Bundy are happy to take taxpayer money while talking shit out the other side of their mouths. He's a hypocrit.
Bundy and his son are stereotypical entitled rich kids. They're sitting on a massive pile of old family money, but since neither of them earned it they don't appreciate what they already have. They're not salt of the earth joes, they're spoiled brats in cowboy boots.
This is bullshit on many levels. Injuns weren't a unified culture or polity. There were many different societies some of which had private land ownership, some of which had communal ownership and some of which were nomadic.
The fact that you spew such blantantly uniformed opinions makes me understand why you're so easily manipulated by guys like Bundy (who BTW wouldn't even have had a ranch to inherit if the Federal Government hadn't sent the army to clear the land for his family).
>>658126 The fact that you pretend to know so much about injuns is hysterical. Did you also get a degree in feminist studies?. BTW, no one cares about Indians except as pets to showcase how progressive you are for caring about inferior beings
>>658130 OK. So we agree that Bundy got no subsidies. Wind and solar get subsidies. Black people get subsidies, moderate Muslim terrorists get subsidies. Illegal aliens and school teachers and BLM wreckers all get subsidies. But Bundy does not.
>>658139 I haven't lied yet. I heard for years about how the noble savages were so superior because don't believe in ownership. What that really meant tho is that they just went around killing and taking. They had no concept of rule of law etc. Heck how can you own land if you can't even write or have deeds?
>>658152 Do you mean the land that Bundy was grazing on? Because that wasn't his, his family never had legal claim of ownership on it. It's been the property of the Federal Government since Mexico ceded it in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. To the best of my knowledge the government has never tried to take the Bundy family's legally owned land, just remove his cattle from federal land.
>"I abide by all of Nevada state laws. But I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing."
- Cliven Bundy
>The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existence, and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.
Article 1, Section 2 of the Nevada State Constitution
The Bureau of Land Management, whose director was Sen. Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations. Corrupt Democratic Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) working with the Chinese gov't to take land from hard-working Americans. Corrupt Democratic Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) working with the Chinese gov’t to take land from hard-working Americans. Deleted from BLM.gov but reposted for posterity by the Free Republic, the BLM document entitled “Cattle Trespass Impacts” directly states that Bundy’s cattle “impacts” solar development, more specifically the construction of “utility-scale solar power generation facilities” on “public lands.”
If any violence occurs at the Wildlife refuge, it will be started by the militia. Several of them have already tweeted that they are anticipating a fire fight with the feds. They are a bunch of wannabe soldiers who want to start a war because they want to be heroes and martyrs.
So an unregulated mitilia is occupying a government building and demanding that the feds release the Hammonds and surrender the park.
They're retarded and here's why. They have given the feds absolutely no reason to comply with their demands and they have no leverage to enforce them.
There is no threat to anyone's lives, they have no hostages or children present, there's no sensitive information or government secrets and the building isn't even that expensive.
All that they have to do is set up a perimeter and wait them out. The militia said that they will let hunters and loggers use the refuge, but police just have to stop them before they enter the refuge.
The militia can't prevent them from doing so without escalating the situation.
They also seem to moronically think that because they control the building, they control the whole area. But they don't, they control a building roughly the size of a suburban family home. They've just put themselves in a position to be surrounded.
It's like conquoring Wyoming and declaring that you now control the U.S.
"The Bundy family of Nevada joined with hard-core militiamen Saturday to take over the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, vowing to occupy the remote federal outpost 30 miles southeast of Burns for years."
>>658393 No, it'll definitely be more like Alcatraz, a bunch of protestors take over a non-essential building and the feds just wait them out. The government will set up a temporary office somewhere else in the forest, cut utilities to the occupied building and go about their business.
Meanwhile the open invitation they put out will draw in a bunch of fringe nuts who will trash the place and stir up trouble and then someone, possibly a child, will get sick or injured and the whole thing will come tumbling down around their ears.
The worst case scenario is that some fringe asshile takes a shot at someone intentionally or accidentally.
Ammon Bundy said they've been planning this for awhile, but he did not think this through.
>>658430 I don't wish anything bad on anyone, anon, I just have a very "natural" outlook on these things. Shitty parents don't get to pass their genes on. I wouldn't put my kids in harm's way nor would I force them to act with me against society. The kids don't deserve to have anything happen to them, but tough titty. This habit of wanting to rescue other peoples' kids because of their bad parenting and ineptitude is a social construct. That doesn't happen in naitcher. But anyway this isn't about the kids either way.
>>658448 The point is that trying to dodge the truth by insinuating I'm a lazy welfare recipient ignores the fact that guys like Bundy are bigger welfare queens than any poor black with a big screen TV.
>>658338 They are starting the work on dismantling the fake Indian reservation the government illegally set up. They are going to return the land to the ranchers it was stolen from. The BLM is no longer welcome or needed in harney county. The BLM was using this "wildlife refuge" as a base to harm citizens of Oregon. In my opinion they have forfeited any right to be there.
Asset forfeiture has long been used by the feds and its great that this tactic is now being used against them. Thanks to all the heroes and patriots for telling the feds to go away and standing for those who the government is terrorizing
>>658457 Again, what subsidies does Bundy get? You seem happy about welfare niggers but angry at productive citizens. That's pretty standard for millennials but you should be happy that these patriots have liberated the land that the BLM has closed off and been trashing for decades.
>>658649 But how can they return the refuge to the people they stole it from when those people are in a federal prison for being degenerate criminals? IMHO all those ranches should be shut down because overgrazing by those sickly dog food cows does more harm than good. And the ranchers themselves are nothing more than common criminals akin to pedophiles and rapists (raping the land).
>>658652 You do know that without federal subsidies Cliven Bundy would be out of business, right?
If he had to charge the fair market value for what it actually costs to raise cattle in the desert, a steak would cost about $200 and the cheapest ground Chuck would be about $50 a pound.
The government literally spends billions a year keeping ranchers afloat so we can have cheaper beef.
Kids like you crack me up because you live in this bubble of first world luxury supported by the federal government and then you go on the internet and complain that the federal government does nothing for you.
Well, as has been mentioned earlier, there's the discounted grazing fees he gets to pasture his herd on land he never owned. $1.35 AUM (animal unit month) which is far Far FAR lower than he would get on state or private land. Private grazing fees on the same kind of land could cost up to $20/AUM, who do you think eats the cost of that extra $19.65/AUM? Uncle Sam does. Of course in Cliven Bundy's case he didn't even pay the $1.35 so he got free access to land he does not own to make commercial profit.
Then there's $30-$40 billion yearly in beef industry subsidies that have also been covered earlier in the thread.
Then there's $550 million in free marketing and advertising that the USDA gives beef producers every year. Beef! It's what's for dinner! That adds I think about $40 billion in sales each year.
Then there's stuff that doesn't directly put money in Bundy's pocket but makes it a lot easier. Like fuel subsidies for the trucks and trains that carry his beefvto market, subsidies for veterinary science research that produces higher yield per cow. And all the money the government spent on hydrologyband irrigation that makes farming and ranching in a desert even possible in the first place.
All in all the government has spent billions to make sure that Clive Bundy can make a living putting steaks on our plates and all they asked him to do was pay a token $1.35 AUM to graze his cattle.
That's one hell of a god damn good bargain.
The fact of the matter is that Cliven Bundy denies the authority of the Federal Government but reaps the benefit of its existence every single day.
Some day, when you're not an angry 19 year old and your parents aren't paying your internet bill anymore, you'll understand how much work it takes by the government to keep this utopia of cheap steaks and high speed internet afloat.
>>658786 Our government is corrupt. All three branches. The government will murder whoever they please just like they did to a rancher here in Idaho recently. If Bundy takes out even a single government thug before he is murdered at least he died trying
>>658765 >Well, as has been mentioned earlier, there's the discounted grazing fees he gets to pasture his herd on land he never owned. $1.35 AUM (animal unit month) which is far Far FAR lower than he would get on state or private land.
talking about market value when the federal government has such vast holdings is a joke.
>>658796 I am saying we cannot know what the actual price would be. Like I am from the east-coast. If the federal government owned 53% of the beaches here, they couldn't say oh look at this great deal I can give you on beach access because they artificially shrunk the market. Who knows what the actual market rates would end up without their interference.
>>658808 Federal grazing fees were supposed to basically match private fees. But while private fees are now in the $20 range federal prices are still basically the same since they were instituted. It's like this because of millionaire ranchers and their politician buddies. This is costing tax payers hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
>>658818 Sounds like a good argument to sell off the land the politicians are mismanaging
>>658819 The important records aren't on the computer my young friend. They are in file cabinets. People used to use paper and typewriters. And the government thugs never imagined they would lose control of their fort. Should make for good reading and hopefully the BLM crooks will go to prison.
>>658872 Or reapproach their fee setting strategy and increase AUM prices. Of course this would most likely cause a lot of ranchers to go broke and lose their property and cattle. But that's OK too because only a small percentage of the beef we eat is from sagebrush steppe rangeland cattle. Most are slaughtered for dog food or sent to China because it tastes like shit.
The sherrif just gave a press conference. He was practically crying. I guess he realizes there is literally nothing he can do that won't be a bloodbath and even tho he takes his orders from the feds I'm sure he doesn't want to murder so many patriots. Maybe the blood money isn't worth selling your soul to the devil.
>>659158 That's partly what the grazing fees pay for.
>Federal law requires that 50 percent of all grazing revenue, for both BLM and USFS, goes into range rehabilitation and improvement funds. Activities that can be funded include, but are not limited to, constructing fences to contain livestock, installing water tanks, building impoundments to improve access to water for livestock, and seeding to improve vegetation and forage. Half of these funds are designated for use in the district, region or national forest from which they were generated.
>>659160 So if Bundy paid $100,000 in fees the bean counters stick that in a dedicated account with the $ from all the other ranchers. All together hundreds of millions of dollars.
That's where the bullshit starts. Salaries, new pickups, iPhone, global warming conferences in hawaii for all the BLM faggots around the country get charged against that fund. Most of these things have nothing to do with range rehab and certainly not to the benefit of any rancher. If there is money left over they have the bean counter transfer it wherever they want.
I used to be a government accountant. What I described is not the exception, but the status quo. BTW they do the same thing with fishing and hunting fees. 80% of that gets siphoned off for shit like endangered snails or given to Indian tribes
>>659394 No I'm a person who lives out West who actually goes outside and understands how valuable of an asset public land is. If every numbnut wanted to claim his little portion of that land what's stopping the Simplot family or West Fraser from fencing off the entirety of it and doing as they please?
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