Anyone around here into climbing? I'm pretty new to the sport and looking to invest in a harness soon. Any recommendations? Also climbing general.
I'd recommend starting with bouldering as it is cheaper to start. You plan on gym climbing or actually being /out/?
I recently upgraded to pic related for a harness. I have a cheaper BD harness and it was way uncomfortable to hang in for any length of time. The DMM is a world of difference.
Here's some of my stuff from when I was first starting to collect gear. Not shown is a 70m Sterling rope, shoes, helmets, nuts, and some more alpine draws. I suppose I'm due to take another gear picture.
Here's someone's gear from a thread way back. Makes me jealous every time I look at it.
Belay device in guide mode. Pretty fond of this over typical belay setup.
Some actual action shots. Rapping down in Custer State Park.
I've just been sport climbing while occasionally setting a nut or slinging a runner around a jug.
I assume you've been a second for a lead for a while who has shown you how to set pro. If not, that's pretty crucial. It's one thing to lead sport with an anchored route, entirely different thing to be setting cams in a crack with no experience.
Used to be able to climb gym 5.9s. Then moved, haven't gotten back in the swing of things yet. There's a good gym nearby though too. Currently have wrist sprain, that shit sucks.
Gonna try to get out more often once this is all healed up though.
What kind of climbing are you trying to get into?
Sport? Mixed? Alpine?
Like others have said its pretty high priority to have gear that is comfortable when you first start. Another thing is being highly economical/fitting your budget, that way you can save more money for other gear you are going to want. Go to a store and find a harness that sits well and then go online and find it on some kind of special/deal. You can always find anything on sale if you're willing to look.
Find a climbing buddy if you haven't already done so. Talk to people at a local gym or store. I've gone to the local crag by myself and found people to climb with, I usually offer myself as the belay slave to sweeten the deal.
Since you'll be starting, as long as you have shoes and a harness, the people you'll be climbing with will carry you on the other gear until you get everything set up for yourself. It took me like around two years to get everything I needed to start climbing on my own.
Another thing to focus on is just having fun, maybe its obvious but still I find that people in this sport sometimes focus on getting their project, or climbing harder than others and they forget about just simply having fun.
ps a piece of gear that would be nice to have is your own helmet. Accidents do happen whether you are beginner or pro and its nice to have something to fall on (pun intended) so you can live to climb another day.
pic related. Make some noise!!
at the top of pico de orizaba....
Yes, I've got some tips.
-Learn how to make the basic knots
-Learn how to belay properly, not only using a GriGri
-Always check your knots and those of your climbing partner, as well as the rope status and climbing material.
-Consider joining a gym, you'll get great advice from more experienced climbers (those who actually climb outdoor, not only gym rats)
-If you'll ever want to try alpinism, invest some money in proper training.
have someone who knows what they're doing help you with some placements, then get after it. best way to get better is practice, lots of placement within your comort zone of climbing, with someone experienced to critique. pic related was my 4th ever trad climb. i learned a shitload about placing pro and building anchors that day.
Ehh, assuming your buddy has a doubles rack, you can aid up most things with a triples rack.
The comfiest harness you can try on. Make sure you have at least four gear loops and a haul loop. Harnesses last a long time and if you are serious about the sport, those features will make everything less of a cluster fuck.
I hate calling people out m8, but that isn't guide mode. Guide mode uses the weight of the climber to bite down on the belayer's side of the rope.
Start easy, work your way up. You may be able to lead 5.11 face, but crack is a whole different game, and protection takes time to set well as a beginner. You will get to your sport grade once you can fire in cams quickly, set nuts efficiently, and get the climbing technique down.
Fucking beautiful area. I've come through the pass to the left of the formation after climbing the middle palisade, but never have climbed it. My partner and I are looking to do Sun Ribbon Arete. Which route did you go up, and have any beta?
Yeah, pretty much. There is a lot of skill in alpinism, but also a lot of luck. It doesn't matter how good you are when the weather turns shit and traps you in your tent for days on end.
we did venusian blind, so nothing real useful about sun ribbon that you don't already know if you've been over contact pass. getting benighted on the moraine was the hardest part of the day.
sun ribbon looks fucking legit, though. tyrolean 2000' up? yes, please!
shit video, but gets to the point:
Contributing climbing oc. Damn, I need to take more pictures during these trips. Pic related is some 5.10 finger corner on the Astro Dome in Joshua Tree. I led up the 5.8 next to it, topped out with my buddies, and top roped the crack. Probably should have led it, but w/e. Next time I guess.
And please don't do this either! When releasing a device from guide mode while belaying another person, back up the main line with (at the very least) a munter or monster (double) munter hitch. More than a few people have been dropped because the belayer could not control the descent using the pictured configurations.
Not usually words you want to hear associated with lowering. A friction hitch (e.g. prussic) as a backup isn't a bad idea, but the munter will help control the lower much better and avoid awkward load transfers if the backup is engaged.
How many load transfers are you expecting in a typical lower? AMGA standard is a friction hitch backup. Unless someone is specifically expecting to perform more rope tricks, I'd say a hitch is fine. Best not to confuse folks and have them adding twists to their ropes
That depends on how many times you lock up the prussic. One of the reasons that I prefer and advocate using a munter hitch, or even a tube or other device, when lowering short distances with an auto-braking device is that they tend to go from fully locked to low-friction very quickly (hence the prussic locking up.) By using an additional belay device one has a much broader range of control over the amount of friction in the system. For longer lowers I'll remove the auto-braking device completely and use another method, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion.
On the whole both methods are about equal in complexity and require competent instruction and supervision before use by a novice. My argument is that it's better to have a system that allows for smoother lowering and more control than a system with a narrow control band and the potential of catching a climber fall with just one prussic.
Oh, so proud of your "pure" climbing, eh? You're fucking around on your little crag for "sport" while aid climbers are pushing the physical boundaries of human knowledge, braving horrible death for tangible gains in science and exploration.
I primarily bolt ladder and hook up rotten rock in caves when aiding. Most climbs are first ascents that will never be repeated (if you don't count the static line I leave behind for jugging). When I am not aiding, I am free soloing first ascents with a goddamn static line tied to me, in fucking combat boots no less. Often the rock is too poor to even hold a bolt. I bet you faggots probably don't even know about flowstone, freezing waterfalls, or the mud. I practically miracle myself up the wall. OH GOD THE ROCKFALL.
>yes that is $10 a ball-peen hammer. Deal with it nerds.
Climbing is getting up stuff. Climbing is not inherently a sport. You are just making it into one. Which is pretty cool of course, but the point is is that hating on different styles is retarded. Each have their merits. Free climbers too often hate on aid climbers out of nothing more than smugness.
The whole "climbing is only a sport, the less aid the better" thing is also smug free climber nonsense. You know it, I know it, so now I am making fun of you.
And calling exploration not sport is about the same as telling people what is and isn't art. Pretty silly.
>Climbing is getting up stuff
i have a ladder i climb sometimes. should i post about that here? or should op specify "rock climbing" next time to cool your tits?
look, if you like to make your own via ferratas everywhere, that's fine, but don't get all pissy when someone razzes you about it. your insecurity about what you do is pathetic.
>when someone razzes you
m8, I am razzing you (and other free climbers) about being dogmatic about free climbing and trying to establish an artificial ethic about what constitutes "correct" rock climbing. It is you that cannot take criticism of your utterly baseless claims of the superiority of your style. Note that it was a free climber that first showed disgust for aid climbing ITT.
What I do is undoubtedly as legit of a sport of ROCK climbing as whatever brand of free climbing you do.
Plus, what part of free solo in combat boots on rotten rock don't you understand? Nigga, I am one-upping the shit out of your little game with rubberized ballet shoes and established routes.
still coming across angry and bitter. maybe you should get some sun
>free solo in combat boots on rotten rock
okay. i third class stuff, too. but i'm also not here jerking myself off about what a hardman i am for it.
btw, boots are great for climbing-nice stiff sole and sharp edge. why do you think that was the go-to for decades, and still what mountaineers wear? get over yourself
Also, please do go on about how much it bothers you I bolt the fuck out of stuff. So. Many. Bolts.
>thinking bolt ladders no longer have their legitimate place in the sport of rock climbing
>thinking this will make me as angry as you are
nah. do what you like. i actually plan to start drilling myself soon.
fwiw i will someday get into aid-i live 4 hours from the most iconic climb on earth, but will never pull 5.14. kinda limits my options on it. but i will never be as salty about my inability to free stuff as you are.
Sunstroke must be impairing you judgement.
My boots are soft soled and have rounded edges. The free solo climbs would be high 4, low 5 in difficulty if they were dry, but they are usually wet and muddy and often with added things like waterfalls that prevent you from seeing the next hold, formations over mud that break apart when weighted, or something else ridiculous like that.
Go on, tell me more about a style of climbing you know nothing about.
>salty about inability to free
Eh, no. On dry rock with climbing shoes I can reliably do 5.9's. OK tier. It is a lot different than the free climbing I normally do (mainly because the techniques used and obstacles are actually somewhat different) and I almost never practice it, so I wouldn't say I'm terrible and unable to do decent "normal" rock climbs, but I'm obviously not great. Not that I care too much. I like it a lot, but I can only pick so many activities to be good at. Such is life. Maybe I'll get more into it later in life. I kind of hope I can.
The aid climbs I do are generally literally impossible for a human free of aid to reliably do or even do at all. Plus, a fall that results in an injury can still mean death due the difficulty of rescue/access and the continuous exposure to harsh elements, so yeah.
>would be 4th class except that it is in a fucking waterfall underground
>would be 4th class except that it is actually made of wet clay
>fall means slow death due to exposure or something
>no one else will do it, including "hardcore" rock climbers
>some of it is actually 5th class
>still not not hardcore
>i actually plan to start drilling myself soon
You only need a small rotary hammer for a bolting drill. A 12v Milwaukee Fuel or 18v Bosch are both pretty ideal I've found. I also recommend drilling by hand at times. Hand drilling requires a lot more thought and dedication to where and how you bolt, which is a good thing to have when you are bolting routes that other people will climb. A rotary hammer can lead to quick mistakes due to carelessness about where you are placing the hole (because it makes drilling the hole so easy) and also lead to quick mistakes in actually drilling the hole if it is in softer rock (for some reason my hand drilled holes are almost always nearly perfect, but I mess up the holes occasionally when using the rotary hammer. Rotary hammer is best for placing multiple bolts on lead or quickly making a bomber anchor at the top of a climb/pitch; whereas a hand drill is best for concertedly setting a few bolts or as a backup in the off chance you need to set a bolt). Anyway, that's my advice about bolting gear.
Not much shoulder swinging required when drilling, but I don't really know shit about the physiology of hitting shit with a hammer. I usually choke up a bit on the hammer and do quick, hard, short whacks. Or you could ignore the local ethic and just do a good job with a rotary hammer when no one is looking. Rotary hammers are good for placing bolts on lead (hand drilling on lead is fuckaweful and often dangerous if you don't have the endurance for it). For most stuff that's normally free climbed, I assume a hand drill is going to be fine because you can do it on rappel and/or the bolts that need to be placed in other areas aren't in tricky spots and the number of bolts that need to be placed probably isn't very high.
Also, when placing a bolt on rappel, don't forget that you can use aid to hold you against the rock or to the side or whatever so you can reach the right spot. Like a hook or a cam or something.
BTW, my hand drill is a Petzl Rocpec. I like it pretty well. It isn't very heavy and the fact that it takes common SDS bits is a plus. However, I have heard that there are some better hand drills out there, most of which have been out of production for a while, and that what's available with SDS bits generally aren't the best for hand drilling. I drill mostly in softer rock though and it seems to be serving me well so far.
For your application, I'd avoid hand drills for self-drilling anchors. The ones that just hold a bit to drill whatever hole the bit is for like the Rocpec are the best because they allow for better choice in anchors. Self drilling anchors are fast and convenient, but they are weaker than wedge bolts and such and aren't stainless steel (which is obviously important to have with bolts and hangers that are going to be left on the wall for others to use for decades potentially).
Also, be sure you aren't fucking up the hole. Better to drill the hole in less "good" of a style than to have a high risk of the hole not being quite right IMO. Bolting is permanent alteration to the rock and it being done correctly is far and ahead better than it being done in a manner that, while might be accepted by some locals, may weaken the bolt placement and/or result in unnecessary holes being drilled.
i know people deep in the local scene with the gear and knowledge and willingness to teach. i'm not going to be splashing bolts in willy-nilly, teaching myself on the fly..
and yeah, on truly hard stuff hooking is used, but i've got a ways 'til i'm establishing routes at that level. i plan on starting well within my comfort zone when swinging a hammer for half an hour 15-20 feet above my last piece of pro.
>braving horrible death for tangible gains in science and exploration.
You're probably just trolling or whatever but I'll just leave this here.
>probably just trolling
Let me honestly address your incorrect understanding of modern aid climbing:
>aid climbing traditional routes on solid rock is the exact same as aid climbing elsewhere, so this video about a guy ranting about Yosemite aid climbers is totally applicable. I swear guise.
Aid climbing deaths on high mountains, in caves, and other risky locations have happened. Actually, they happen with pretty fair regularity. You just don't hear about it much, partly because often the deaths aren't specifically called "climbing accidents" and they don't happen to people in the "rock climbing community" or whatever. Usually the death isn't a fall per se, but getting knocked out by rockfall and then succumbing to exposure or something along those lines, which I think damn well counts as a legitimate risk in a climb.
>guaranteed to get up with a drill
Hah. HAH. Laughable. A typical rock face? Sure. Not all rock can reliably hold a bolt however, and drills cannot get wet and there are places that you'd die from exposure attempting to hand drill.
>the ___ has defeated my free climbing ability. I must turn around.
Common fallacy many free climbers fall into when thinking about aid. You have to think of the sport of climbing in different terms than your own little game of free climbing in order to understand it. The "purity" of the climb itself is not the only aspect of sport involved with climbing. Plus, many aid climbs will only be attempted one time ever and/or are so remote that no one else in the foreseeable future would want to attempt them. And there is some stuff that cannot be free climbed by a human, but there is still value to getting tot he top of it beyond just saying that it's been done (as is the case with most fee climbing these days).
>aid climbers can be fat and still get up
GL fitting through that 7" crack that's already miles of crawling and several climbs in right before you get to the next pitch then bro.
It doesn't seem like he'd be able to get up much with it. Some cams and a small number of nuts, but not even any hooks. Maybe when this picture was taken he was just starting out and borrowed/used a lot of gear from his partners?
It also looks like he must have only been attaching his ascenders with his daisy chains. I know big wall climbers do it for minimalism, but in anything other than "normal" rock climbing it can be pretty dumb. 10mm+ dynamic cowstails are the way to go for harsh and/or risky conditions IMO. It is also more efficient when ascending rope if you've got the lengths right.This might not be that applicable of a criticism for the guy with that rack, but it is something that kind of bothers me sometimes.
By no means am I an expert climber, and I don't know anything about big wall climbing, but it's pretty obvious from how clean everything looks that he either rarely climbs, or he just recently bought most of that stuff.
New England Equinox I got for pretty cheap. It is more durable than I thought it would be, but a bit stiff. Not that much of a problem for me though as I care most about durability.
Now that I am talking up its durability, I'll probably accidentally cut it's sheath on a fin or something the next climb. FML. Whatever, at least I'm about to cut it into smaller pieces anyway.
>he just recently bought most of that stuff.
I'm betting on that. Stuff can look cleaner in pictures than in person, but I see zero obvious wear to any of it. Also, the fact that all of his nylon slings are store bought sort of screams to me that he has money to spare. Most of the time slings I see are made from pieces of bulk purchased climbing webbing and tied with a water knot (or sewn at home). Actually buying nylon slings (especially when you want a lot of them) seems like the opposite of frugal to me.
Right. Everything simply looks too bright and shiny. And he doesn't have any older models of gear. Most of those carabiners are new versions that came out within the last year or two. The picture isn't that sharp, but dirt and scratches would show up a little bit, and his colored tape/vinyl markings on all his stuff would definitely be mostly scratched off by even a few uses.
Slings are usually super cheap. Most runners and slings I've seen are 4-7 dollars each. No more than $10 for a longer one. Slings might be the only cheap piece of gear there is. I can't imagine it being much cheaper to buy webbing and tie it up.
>I can't imagine it being much cheaper to buy webbing and tie it up.
It is, especially if you aren't even paying the $0.30+ per foot that short pieces are normally sold at, but even then a short nylon sling you tie yourself would be only about $2. All my short nylon slings cost me less than $1 apiece. I literally buy webbing in massive spools though, but this quickly makes sense when you realize just how much webbing is needed for some things. I can make it rain webbing.
It might not be that much of a savings for 20 or so slings, but I was kind of just making a point about how it's obvious that he wasn't trying to save money really.
I know. It is such a burden.
I never understood why people who only climb in the gym are looked down on so much. Grade wise my gym friends can walk up things my outdoor friends can't even get 2 moves up.
It's almost an elitism in a way. I heard so much of it I actually stayed away from outdoors for a long time because the few that actually went outdoors on occasion always acted so holier than thou that it was a total turn off.
gym's fun and convenient for a couple quick hours, but climbing outdoors is so much more beautiful and challenging, especially psychologically.
plus you can't respectably gear queer if you stick to plastic. ;)
No kidding. Gym climbers climb in a very low risk environment. There is practically no objective danger and rescue is always right by.
Gym climbing has it's place and is respectable in it's own right, but saying one is a "better climber" because they do harder grades indoors compared to someone else who climbs outside is pretty silly. There is a lot of stuff you don't have to deal with gym climbing that you have to deal with on real rock (not just the added danger). Not saying that the smugness of some climbers over others is actually justified or that gym climbers deserve hate, but I think that those are the biggest reasons why gym climbing is looked down upon.
Any other ice climbers here? And are any of you going to Ouray Ice fest next month? If you are, see you then.
Also, I've flown with climbing gear before, and know what gets checked and what doesn't, but does anyone have tips for packing ice tools? I have two pairs that I'm putting in a checked bag. What's the best way to protect the points so they don't shred everything? I figure I would just wrap them in cardboard and duct tape, but I know a guy who packed his tools with the points tucked into his helmet, and the tools got nudged during the flight and poked a hole right through his BD Half Dome. The tools are also packed with a rope and ice boots, so I need to make sure they don't get torn up at all.
I just bought my first harness and shoes and is a gym a good place to make some friends and get into the climbing community? I'd love to move to outdoors stuff but I basically know nothing and none of my friends climb.
Absolutely. A gym is one of the easiest places ever to talk to new people. Most climbers are friendly as hell and always want people to climb with. Bouldering walls are the easiest place to strike up a conversation, because it's mostly people sitting around trying and discussing a boulder problem. From there, it's easy to find someone who needs a belayer.
Alright thanks man. I was just afraid getting into it without somebody else that I know it'd be hard to find someone to go climbing with because I'd be super inexperienced.
Are climbing lessons worth it at all? Is it common to make friends with a more experienced climber and have them teach you the ropes?
If your gym has autobelays, use those. And maybe boulder on really easy stuff to get used a climbing a bit. You're also likely to find other new climbers that don't know what they're doing. Look for people with rental harnesses and shoes.
And don't get lessons. Totally not worth it. But you could google info on climbing technique, like climbing with straight arms, predicting your center of gravity changes, etc. The internet is full of videos and articles on all that. Then climb with that info in mind.
Most importantly, just be modest about not knowing what you're doing, because it's surprising how many new people try to act tough and muscle their way up a wall, and totally suck because of it. And it's super obvious.
Thank you so much. I am aiming to come into this sport with lots of humility because I know that its ok to be sucky and bad. All I gotta do is progress and learn and try and improve from the last time I climbed. No need to compare myself to climbing legends or other really strong climbers.
Thanks for the suggestions and all the help man. I appreciate it a lot. I've been trying to find a sport that gets me outside and finding new places and this seems like a great sport and community to jump into.
>No need to compare myself to climbing legends or other really strong climbers.
No, but do compare your movement with theirs. Watch how the more experienced guys in the gym tackle problems and try to mimic the techniques they use.
>the comfiest gear. shops often have a point shere you can hang from/sit in the harness to tell if you hate it.
I started off with a momentum SA because it was one of the cheapest at the store and it seemed pretty comfy. I wouldn't recommend it as after climbing in it for a long time, the leg loops tend to cut into your thighs because the loop is angled inward. Try out some petzl harnesses. I have a really comfy model that I bought a few years ago. Weight isn't an issue to you at this point. Hell, the weight of a harness isn't an issue for me either.
Yes sir! I rock mainly the dead bird. Squamish, delta lt, and r320a harness in that pic.
I just bought another jacket from them, the atom lt because I heard many good things about it even on here. It gets here Friday and I'm stoked.
People talk shit about the price which is truee, it's very expensive but so far I've gotten all my jackets from them at least 30 percent off. Haven't paid sticker price for them.
I need to get ready to buy a new harness though because it's showing signs of wear and it's getting to be of age.
i always pull my dead bird from the clearance racks at my local outfitters. I have the atom lt and love it to death. The harnesses are really expensive though, its the only thing i wouldn't consider.
pic related, puke green with blue trim
I got the puke green as well. Can't wait to really test it.
Funny thing about the harness. Went to rei and saw the dead bird harness. I liked it but not the price. I switched the price tags between the one I wanted and another that was 50 bucks cheaper. Went to pay and all was going perfectly until he took the harness out of the bag to take the theft prevention thing off and he noticed it wasn't the same product that was scanned on the computer. He knew because he owned the harness and loved it. Haha oh what were the odds. He apologized and took the tax off because of the inconvenience it was for me. So I just paid the sticker price which I guess wasn't too bad considering.
>Anyone can aid climb.
Out of shape people can't. Dumb people can't. Overly poor people can't. People like you who don't have the skill, inclination, or intelligence to get to the remote location of the climb while dealing with the logistics and harsh elements can't.
So yeah, "anyone."
I make first ascents on a regular basis. A few of my first free ascents have been repeated, but none of my aid routes have yet been repeated.
I hope you're having fun hooking quickdraws to bolts on sport routes you've done a million times. I'm sure it is a great "style." Too bad this isn't a dance off.
Self bump with question...so I have this tricep injury that's almost healed, though I spent a long time off climbing I tried doing a pull up routine which only seemed to aggravate it. If I consider getting a hangboard, solely to hang on, does anyone know if just hanging will stress/use the triceps? The alternative is to continue resting, as boring as that is.
Maybe /fit/ might have an answer but...I'd rather not.
triceps are one of the major muscles of the arm, so anything that uses your arms is going to risk engaging it.
just look at the risk vs benefit. what do you hope to gain? a very small improvement in grip endurance? compared to a chance of reaggravating what's already been a long term injury? just hanging isn't going to accomplish a lot, certainly not enough to risk being hurt going into spring, imo. if you really want to try, though, baby steps, and if it hurts at all stop immediately.
i can relate to wanting to jump back into stuff after a long time out-impingement's taken me out for 5 months, just starting to test the waters again-but remember long term gratification>short term gratification.
Ice climbing is becoming my favorite form of climbing. It's not physically or technically too difficult other than sheer grip stamina, but it feels so much more involved mentally. I love having to really take my time and read the ice I'm on and figure out where I'm going. It feels so meditative, yet so intense.
Pic related. Not me, but I climbed up where that guy in the red is last weekend. It was on toprope, but it was still 140 feet of WI4. Felt so great.
Do NOT get a hangboard until the injury is completely healed, and even then don't jump right back into it. Get some theraband and one of those finger trainers and talk to a physiotherapist. Mountainproject, supertopo, and rockclimbing.com are other good resources for injury recovery, and Eric Horst has a few good books on training. You are rehabilitating an injury, do not expect to be climbing hard for a while.
What is the absolute minimum gear you would use for a rope ascend that doesn't involve foot locking or a harness? Think of it as a life or death situation where you just gotta climb. No time for backups or redundancies. The less gear and weight, the better. To put a number with it, let's say it's a 70 foot climb.
What you describe is called single rope technique or SRT.
For a bare minimum rope ascending system you will need webbing or thick-ish rope to tie an improvised harness (there are multiple methods, google it), about 20' of dynamic rope (preferably 10mm+, but really climbing rope can suffice), and about 20' of accessory cord in the 7mm to 8mm range (this is assuming you will be ascending up 10mm or 11mm rope). With the webbing, tie a harness. With the accessory cord, tie three loops for prusik knots and a foot loop that is slightly longer than knee height. With the dynamic rope, tie three cowstails to your harness which will connect to the three prusik knots. Two should be about the length from you waist to your face and one should be slightly longer than about half that length. Connect the footloop to one of the prusik knots that is attached to the longer of the two cowstails; this will be your lower knot. the middle knot will be the one attached tot he shorter cowstail. The top will be the one attached to the other long cowstail.
You now have a three knot ascending system only used by the extremely old or extremely poor. To use it, stand up in the footloop and move the upper two prusik knots up the rope. Sit down in your harness weighting the upper knots. Move up the lower knot. Repeat until at the top of the rope.
>let's say it's a 70 foot climb
I know people that have climbed a single pitch over 1200' using a three knot ascending system. Two of them did it tandem (two people on the rope, one below the other) their first time ascending that particular pitch and they did it in about an hour and a half.
People get pretty serious about doing SRT. Usually mechanical ascending devices (aka Jumars, jammers, etc.) are used. Yosemite style aid climbers do it too (they call it jugging), but they are basically improvising "meh" ascending systems utilizing their daisies and aiders. Not the safest or most efficient by any means.
Here's my current set up. I have two lower ascenders (one attached directly to my right foot and the other attached to my left foot via a knee length foot loop) and one upper ascender (the one with the handle in the picture). I also have a device called a chest roller that holds me upright. I can either do something akin to the two knot method of ascending, standing in my foot loop, moving up my upper ascender, sitting down on it, moving up my lower ascender, repeat; or I can attach the chest roller and the ascender on my right foot and walk up the rope, alternating weight from one foot to the other. The former method is very maneuverable and the latter is incredibly efficient for free hanging pitches.
I was thinking along the lines of something as minimal as a Ascension, Pantin, 120cm (foot cord) and 60cm (to connect you to the Ascension under your arms) slings, and two locking biners. Obviously this isn't an ideal setup, but I'm curious as to what the absolute bare minimum could be yet still offer at least some measure of safety.
So I'm looking to go camping for the first time (taking my dog) any tips? also will these three item work together i.e fit together nicely?
Climbing shoes and a harness, so like $100 - $200 total. Maybe just shoes if you aren't doing anything with rope or one of your buddies has an extra harness.You go with friends that should have rope and the other gear, and you slowly build up your own set of the other gear as you progress. It can get expensive depending on what you're getting into (unless you just go bouldering, that's cheap as fuck), but it is comparatively cheap compared to a lot of other hobbies.
>How does one get involved in the sport?
make friends with climbers.
>is it expensive?
eventually, if you get into trad.
>What is the barebones setup?
mandatory to start $60 harness, $60 shoes (assuming you go to the store and buy them new, shoes can be less on craiglist, but i'd be leery of used safety gear, especially as a beginner not knowing what to look for). $20 chalkbag+chalk is nice to have, not need to have as a beginner, $30 atc+locking carabiner once someone trusts you to belay them (you can hold off on that if our partner has one-only need one per two people). sometimes people will have spare loaner harness or shoes so people trying it our don't have to shell out $$. if you want to wait on shoes wear the stiffest soled shoes you have, NOT tennies/running shoes (soles are too soft and deform when loaded) work/hiking boots are much better.
I'm not very interested in the "quality" of the climbs because I'm not interested in having dance offs with people on rock faces. I climb rotten rock most of the time. The reason most of my climbs aren't repeated is primarily the danger and the remoteness. It isn't the difficulty per se, though some are quite difficult. I'm not climbing to set fun routes for other people to admire, but rather to get to the top and for original exploration and adventure. Even if someone like you was able to climb what I climb, you wouldn't be willing.
To you rock climbing is generally tracked out crags and boulders which are easy to get to and low risk. You rarely do anything new. Anyone can free climb.
Damn dude you're smug as fuck. I bet you smell your own farts as well. You claim that you're not trying to have a dance off but look at what the fuck you are doing hear. You're having a dance off with someone over the fucking Internet.
Get a grip dude. Do what you want and just shut the fuck up.
Both of you are fucking up how cool climbing is by arguing as if this were any other sport. This is the sport for artists and nerds, and all-around weirdo, free spirited adventurers. Climbing is about breaking physical and mental barriers to progress yourself and others upward, and finding peace within danger, or whatever your own personal reason is for why you do this. Whatever that reason is, if it involves putting down other climbers for enjoying what they're doing, whether you're doing it on purpose or on accident, you're doing it wrong.
But if you're going to ego trip and have a pissing contest, then I guess I can't stop you, so at least be safe, have fun, and find something awesome to climb.
It was intentional on my part, but both of you are missing the point I was trying to make. Now that >>678339 has stated what I wanted to hear and we are actually talking about the real problem, here's the point:
Merely stating that the pissing contest over styles is bullshit would not have made that point very strongly. The arguments I made were specifically intended to piss people off (particularly the people hating on aid out of ignorance as those seemed to be the most populous people ITT claiming another style was beneath them) and to draw attention to just how fucking stupid it is to hate on how someone else climbs. There are some ethics that can be agreed on between styles, such as when and when not to permanently alter the rock, but anything beyond that is generally nonsensical dick measuring contests. Each styles has merit, and people climb for their own reasons. I believe I've stated as much before ITT. Saying something like: "Anyone can ___ climb, and therefor your style is shittier than mine!" is pretty retarded on multiple levels.
>literally just drawn in and made an example of
>claims style is superior to others
>attempts to say he never said that after being called out for it
>claims to not be smug even though he literally was just claiming other styles were beneath him
>his reasons for claiming superiority were utterly baseless and betray the fact that he has never done the style of climbing he criticized
>claims to not be full of shit
This is the kind of person that hates on other's styles of climbing.
Sort of. You missed another huge point. Criticism of aid (here and elsewhere) often claims it is all low risk and somehow only done at places that have well established routes. That's obviously utter bullshit. It would be the same as claiming all trad climbers climb at local tracked out and easily accessible crags with perfect places for pro everywhere, which is equally bullshit, but something rarely claimed because most everyone knows better (you'd think they'd extent that understanding to other styles, but I guess not). Me claiming that exact thing about free climbing is merely me turning that bullshit you spew right back at you. I think such an ignorant attitude might come from the fact that most climbers in general do in fact climb in more controlled and established areas usually. Doing so can generally be pretty fun pretty after all. Maybe some people just are never able to see past their own little world of climbing in their own small local area, and then maybe trying to judge other styles that aren't even seen in their area further compounds it.
I really want to start a path to becoming a mountain guide of some sort. I've done some research and I know how much work and time is involved and what I need to know to become a guide, but I don't know where to start. How do I get into frequent mountaineering and alpine climbing so I can learn more stuff? I know I can take classes, but I'm not made of money. Does anyone know where I can live and work to get experience, as a cheaper alternative to classes?
>move to mammoth or bishop
>get a shitty job to make ends meet
>spend all your free time in the mountains
>start running in the same circles as established guides
>start working for one of them
if you get in with a well enough established company they'll pay for you wfr, nols, spi, etc. classes
I only climb indoors, and have switched exclusively to bouldering. Spend your time really getting a pair of shoes that fits perfectly and especially for your first pair go to a shop and get the guys there to help you with the fitting. Every mm counts. Harnesses and the like can be more flexi, but shoes are everything. Also if you're setting up a little kit and getting a bag together, make sure to include a first aid box. Just band aids, tape, wipes, nail clippers, little scissors and antiseptic spray or liquid. Your hands get ripped up A LOT the first few months. I also keep a nail file so I can file down calluses before they rip or rip worse.
No, I am a huge asshole. I don't think that's ambiguous at all.
Since you are literally too stupid to understand what I'm saying and will continue to trash how other climbs for completely baseless reasons, at least I succeeded in making you mad. You're a fucking idiot and are literally the epitome of what most other adventure sport people hate about rock climbers.
i don't give a shit how other people climb. i trad, sport, toprope, indoors, outdoors, single pitch, alpine, bring new climbers up shit, get drug up shit by better climbers, and am going to get into aid once i piece together a rack.
but continue to feel persecuted, if it helps your self image, faggot.
>Anyone can aid climb. Not everyone can free climb.
That's what you said.
>i don't give a shit how other people climb
Then why make such illogical statements claiming superiority? Oh yeah, you're a complete idiot.
Persecuted? Impossible since worthless people like you are almost totally insulated from my style of aid unless I seek you out to call you out on your bullshit or something. Smug? I'm not the one who seriously attempted to make baseless claims of superiority. Go on, try another ill thought out insult.
>Anyone can aid climb. Not everyone can free climb.
that wasn't me you fucking mong. notice where i said
>i...am going to get into aid once i piece together a rack
so why would i give a shit about you aid climbing? i just pointed out that you're being a cunt. and for what reason? to prove that being a cunt is bad? great logic there, plato. and YOU'Re the one who's representing climbers in a bad light.
>i climb shit you'll never climb because it's too hard and i'll never invite you.
well la-di-da, i don't want to climb with a defensive, insecure, condescending asshole like you anyways.
seriously. fuck off.
Holy shit guy, just walk away already. This is just getting hard to read. Havn't even opened up the thread yet, and probably not going to because its been derailed by some argumentative freeclimbing snowflake. You must be a fucking joy to live with. I'm serious if you don't live alone, make breakfast tomorrow morning or something goddamn, give these people something for being saints and tolerating you.
>back to claiming i'm shitting on a specific type of climbing
lrn2readingcomprehension. i'm shitting on you because you're pissy over someone daring to get snarky over your preferred type of climbing. i love all climbing types. can't say that any more clearly. it's you i hate for being a cock and cocking up this thread.
Different anon here
>anyone can aid climb
Why is that a bad thing? God damn why are you so fucking sensitive over a comment that isn't necessarily a derogatory one.
Calm down dude Jesus Christ
I came to /out/ unironically for the first time today because i have had a sudden daydream about standing on the roof worlds above everyone lately. It's scaring me, but i can hear the call of the mountain
>with just a partner
>implying that kind of solitude exists on everest
plus i like to enjoy my mountaineering experiences, not spend six weeks slowly suffocating and standing in conga lines just so i can say "been there" along with 4000 bored dentists and podiatrists
East side remains untouched...
No one has conquered it's winters...
>90km trek just to reach the base
>deadliest mountain anyway
>reaching the summit is the ultimate goal, but it's only half the way
>the descent is the deadliest part
>hundreds of people have died thinking they had dropped the weight of the world off their shoulders and conquered the mountain
>the thought of taking any other route, but the common one
there are up to 250+ people summitting a year at this point, and just a few small breaks in the weather. so you'll have literally 50-60 people making the summit push in the same day, many of whom have literally no technical climbing experience until they hit the hillary step and have to learn to climb 5.6 at 28000 feet. kinda fucks things up for everyone else. and even when you're not climbing you're living in tent cities with populations in the hundreds. there are even fucking permanent multiroom rave tents.
Climbing Everest is not as difficult as everyone thinks it is. There are two requirements to climb Everest: 1.) Be in spectacular physical and mental condition, which many climbers already are, and 2.) Have a fuck ton of money. Apart from that, the sherpas do all the hard technical work to make a path for you. You can even hire them to carry your stuff. It's a 21st century tourist trap.
>Someone trying to casualize the ultimate roof of the world
You're right, there is no purpose anymore...
>Oldest person to climb M. Everest 80 years 224 days Yuichiro Miura
>Youngest person to climb Mount Everest 13 years 10 months 10 days old Jordan Romero
>Blind Erik Weihenmayer
>Double leg amputee Mark Inglis
>Double arm amputee Sudarshan Gautam
>Multiple sclerosis Lori Schneider
>feeling superior for spending money to climb 6' of plastic
"Sherpa" isn't a job, it's an ethnicity. The name translates to "Eastern people" in Tibetan. They were raised in the mountains. Many Sherpa guides have climbed Everest over a dozen times. It's not their job, it's just how they live. They're the true badasses of climbing and many don't get the credit or respect they deserve. You could still become a guide, though. But gaining the credentials for being an international guide is unbelievably hard work, and very few people actually gain this title. And it may be impossible to climb the mountain alone on an unmarked pass, even if you were the best mountaineer in the world.
Equipment, guide fees, and the cost of living in base camp for half a year in order to train and condition yourself for ultra-high altitude climbing. Not to mention government permit fees, which can be up to $25,000 a person. The total cost of climbing Everest can be upwards of $100,000 USD, though many climbers are sponsored, and that cuts down on costs.
Now, to clarify, most people who climb Everest are very experienced and skilled mountaineers. However, being one of these climbers is not a requirement. I believe that the true "roof of the world" in a philosophical climbing sense, is K2. It's the second highest mountain. The climb is only a few hundred vertical feet shorter, but the death rate is 13x greater than Everest, and far fewer people have reached the summit, because it requires true alpine climbing skills to make it to the top.
This is my kind of climbing, i usually free climb 20ft up a tree then it becomes to spooky 4 me
Nothing is impossible mate; the first trek was on an unmarked pass. I'm not doubting that i will most likely refrain tho; all that permission bullshit got nauseating. It also dawned on me that the region is a breeding ground for crevasses, literally my biggest fear
sorry toshatter your illusion anon, but k2's rapidly going the pay-to-play way of everest. i didn't realize it 'til i read pic related about a disaster largely caused by underqualified climbers who didn't "earn" their way up.
CLIMBERS PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT THE FOLLOWING LINK, YOU MAY NEED TO SEND SOME OF YOUR BLACK DIAMOND GEAR BACK.
I'm not a climber myself but I though I should share with you fellow friends.
Me and my brother-in-law are getting into mountaineering. Thinking about hitting a 14ker somewhere in the Rockies
Anyone had experience with this area? We're looking for one that's decently technical.
Anyone has recommendations on a good ice axe/pick? I had one that was literally almost a hundred years old but I don't trust it anymore.
I want to go out on the ice and fish, but my grandpa taught me never to do it without an axe to help you get out of the water if you fall through.
i got a bd raven on sale for $60, or there about. not sure if you want something with a more aggressive handle for self rescue from breaking through lake ice, though. if you want something like in your pic you're looking for an ice tool, not an ice axe. they'll be more expensive, but they'll be lighter and shorter, with a handle that's easier to grip. i'd try craigslist or an outdoor consignment shop to find a used one. hard to imagine a situation you'll be in that will make it fail.