>>14339212 > Ethanol contains approx. 34% less energy per unit volume than gasoline, and therefore in theory, burning pure ethanol in a vehicle reduces miles per US gallon 34%, given the same fuel economy, compared to burning pure gasoline.
>>14339443 The food part is only accurate in certain parts of the world.
A lot of places utalize grass or grains we don't eat. And besides, if corn weren't used for ethanol then farmers wouldn't plant corn, they'd do something else, it's not like there is a corn shortage now.
Ethanol fuel gets better octane ratings than pure petroleum distillates, and its combustion results in more exhaust by volume, which spools turbos faster.
The only downside is that ethanol is substantially worse in terms of energy density, but if the price of the gas is adjusted to reflect as much, then it makes no difference.
You don't need to be an envirofag to appreciate ethanol gasoline. Hell, it's probably a wash as to whether gas or ethanol is better for the environment. It's still good for performance, especially in turboed cars.
>>14339212 Ethanol free is nearly mandatory for marine engines as most Mercruisers dont use hardened valve seats. In a street car, its nice knowing my gasoline will go a tad further per mile. Only run 110 AvBlu in my old stuff anyway
>tfw you can run 3* more timing advance and 7* ignition advance just by using low lead. >tfw 10.5:1 CR and no spark knock at 6800 RPB and 500+ CI.
>>14339699 Who said anything about giving free food away. I said its wasteful to grow corn for fuel on ground meant for food. There is hundred of thousand acres of fallow land. That could be used. Also you might want to look what ethanol did to the corn prices.
Ethanol blended gasoline is/has/alwayswillbe a scam, some of the corn subsidies expired so the savings are negligible compared to non-blended. 4/5 stations have straight alcohol where I live thankfully.
I didn't imply that /o/ is a single, monolithic entity. I merely said there were several people vilifying ethanol without knowing anything about it. That much was true.
Taking what I say and turning it into a bizarre absolute doesn't make you correct, or appear intelligent. Nobody here is implying that ethanol fuels are some panacea that will free the West from the yoke of foreign petroleum, despite what you'd like your strawman to say.
It has marginally more octane, but its reputation for performance comes more from the fact that it spools turbos faster because it spits out more exhaust volume.
Still, unless you can get it for like 30% less than regular gasoline, filling your car up with E85 or other ethanol-heavy blends probably isn't worth the drop in mileage.
I guess it's nice for track days when you want to squeeze every last drop of performance out of your car, but there would still probably be better things to spend your time and money on, like tires and suspension and taking off weight and shit.
>>14340262 government subsidies and the fact it is it the law
ethanol fuel is a fucking scam by the agricultural industry. these fags knew their ethanol could never compete with petrol so they made it the law that all motor vehicle fuel must contain 10%. they passed this law under the guise of "green energy" despite the fact that ethanol has poor returns on investment and destroys natural land to plant corn. >>14340391 if ethanol didn't suck dick, it could compete on its own.
>>14339212 Ethanol certainly makes sense to use for fuel in certain countries, such as Brazil for example where they grow sugar cane.
Ethanol in the US is a scam. Growing corn to produced anhydrous ethanol produces more carbon dioxide than gasoline, releases more harmful pollutants such as formaldehyde and acetaldehyde and either repurposes farm land or destroys untouched wilderness for new crops. Return on investment is only 1.3:1. In small amounts (10% or less) it is useful for reducing particulate emissions in gasoline but even that can be obtained by different measures.
Anyhdrous ethanol is also extremely corrosive and destroys motor vehicle fuel systems. Even if a car is rated as safe for use of flex fuels there will still be far more damage using them than simple gasoline. Further ethanol has a lower energy content than gasoline so you get worse mileage and in general pay more. Ethanol blends would have to be significantly cheaper than gasoline to even be worth it to the consumer from an economic standpoint.
In the US, unless you are driving a race car ethanol will cost you more and be objectively worse for the environment than just using gasoline.
Thank the government and the agricultural industry for screwing you and further increasing the rate of global warming as they claim.
I think ethanol should compete in a fair market in the US. If it is actually cheaper I'll buy it (times when oil prices are absurd) but that isn't likely to happen often.
>>14341796 >>14341286 There is no real limit on how much fuel you can inject; air is the limiting factor in an ICE. Ethanol has less energy per gallon, so you just use more gallons. Put in 30% larger fuel injectors and you have 110 AKI racegas.
>>14342475 You can't change your compression ratio. In an N/A ethanol will offer zero advantage unless you are seriously messing with your timing. I doubt most cars even have the adjustment range to take full advantage of higher octane fuels.
In an FI air not always the limiting factor. If it is then ethanol isn't going to help. If your turbo is past efficiency you're just blowing hot air. If you can run higher boost but you are knocking then yes, ethanol will help.
For 99.9% of users ethanol has zero benefits, and is poor for the environmental reasons listed (in the US). If it was so great turbo cars would come with e85 maps. It obviously isn't worth the hassle to oems.
If you simply up your fuel consumption with larger injectors you get no gain whatsoever, you are just back where you started unless you have some seriously variable valve timing
>>14342704 So why not switch to ethanol and have new cars run higher compression ratios? The only question is if the lower energy density is offset by potential power gains from higher compression ratios. I don't know the answer to that.
>>14343066 The american ethanol infrastructure couldn't sustain it. As it is ethanol is hardly sustainable and only economically feasible because of laws and lobbies. ethanol is not competitive with gasoline in the slightest. we should really focus on electric/hybrid cars and natural gas/nuclear power.
I'm all for alternative fuels, but I want them on an equal playing ground.
disclaimer: this applies only to the USA and corn ethanol. ymmv in the rest of the world
>>14343066 >So why not switch to ethanol and have new cars run higher compression ratios? Why even fucking bother with eth, just make biodiesels and have them run off fermented shit, trash and yardwaste.
>>14343140 It could work once we have the infrastructure to actually make that shit. A metric fuckton of crude and gas comes in from Canada, the Saudis, out of the ground in America, every single day. It'd take a long-ass time to equate that with ethanol.
>>14343140 I agree I'm just not positive that the US is a great place to grow ethanol fuels. I mean look at Brazil and sugar cane. We will never meet such a return unless in a greenhouse. Let ethanol compete in a free market, where it will fail lol. If ethanol wasn't a joke we'd have power plants burning it. Its a hippy/liberal irl meme fuel.
Daily reminder that butanol blends are what's going to take over when petroleum is no longer cost-effective to drill and produce. The blends will most likely be a mixture of butanol and some less-viscous alcohols. The mixture will be more efficient (energy/unit) than ethanol and only slightly less energy-dense than normal gasoline. Best thing about it: it should run in traditional modern gasoline engines.
I imagine industrial and chemical engineers are working with the chemists and biochemists to draw up methods for mass-production as we type.
>>14342704 >You can't change your compression ratio noticed how some modern engines are running very high static compression ratios? they do it by using vvt to vary dynamic compression. saying that ethanol is shit because cars aren't set up for it is a pretty weak argument.
>>14343066 to run all the cars in the usa on e85 would require us turning 70% of the planet's arable land to corn production for fuel. it's just not gonna happen
>>14342704 Alcohol actually does create more power without substantial changes to the engine design. It has more favorable burn characteristics and absorbs more heat from the intake charge as it flashes to a gas, meaning more air makes it into the engine.
And yes, air is always the limiting factor, even for FI. If you ever exceed your ability to add more fuel, your engine is running lean and eating head gaskets.
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