Why do Europeans hate the Camaro so much? Also why do they hate muscle cars in general? Is it jealousy or is it bandwagon hate considering not very many Europeans have ever set foot in American muscle?
>generalising this so much
Not every European hates Camaro's. Most Europeans actually like muscle cars (not theat the Camaro is one, but still), or at least the idea of them - a cheap, RWD car with a big engine.
Problem is just that taxes and import fees make them expensive as hell. Chevrolet in particular is a problem as they're pulling out of Europe altogether, so goodluck getting any warranty upport or maintenance done at a dedicated Chevy dealership.
why do americans hate euro cars
camaro in particularity, its a dog shit car only liked by incestuous redneck trash
its hated globally
>why do americans hate euro cars
They don't, that's why most cars in America are European.
>incestuous redneck trash
That's the Mustang friendom also nice pointing out what's bad about it.
>shut up and take my (you)
Camaro is doing pretty decently in Europe though despite those expensive tax fees jacking up the price and the lack of right-hand-drive option(what the fuck are you doing gm). if they had a right-hand drive option that alone would boost sales like the mustang which is selling pretty good there.
V6 on the new one sounds pretty good too.
There are a small amount of people actually importing challengers despite them not officially being sold there. damn that must be expensive as fuck.
This. I'd get a third gen camaro, or a 2001 Mustang in a heartbeat but taxes are high, gasoline is expensive, dumb emission regulations and small parking places. Plus the insurance will be insanely expensive and you have no workshops that are familliar with these cars.
>small parking spaces
I have to ask and I don't want to sound like a total prick but why the fuck does Europe not invest in making wider roads and streets? I know it probably isn't needed but it has always bothered me how most of Europe has roads barely wide enough to fit a hatchback.
I wonder what it would feel like driving around Europe in pic related.
Do American muscle cars or American sports cars get looks from civilians?
I'm an american and I hate the Camaro because it's fucking hideous and i've literally only seen niggers drive it. I like the Mustang. Charger is basically the same as the Camaro cheap shitty looking car that niggers drive.
>Do American muscle cars or American sports cars get looks from civilians?
Also, no. I think I -may- have seen a corvette once, but that was only once and a looong time ago.
There are literally no muscle cars in the UK, because the market is entirely different, and they would be inaffordable for the average pleb, whereas in the USA you can get them off an average paying salary.
It's the taxes, insurance, emissions costs and everything that ruins it.
99% people here drive econoshitboxes with tiny 4 cylinder turbocharged diesel engines for a reason.
No I'm from germany and depending on where you are, some roads, but a lot of parking lofts and sub terrain garages are small, because they can't grow with the cars.
Making every road wider would take a lot of time and would cost a lot. My federal state is poor as fuck and our communes can't even keep the streets here intact.
I dare you to drive a monstrosity like the camaro with fucking SLITS as windows in an average European city. Driving, parking, everything.
I DOUBLE DARE YOU MOTHERFUCKER.
>Do American muscle cars or American sports cars get looks from civilians?
On a episode of Top Gear when Jeremy drove the GT500 against a train and had to park it people were taking out their phones and snapping pictures like it was some kind of super-car.
Other anons from Europe have told me that they are indeed an attention grabber.
>Do American muscle cars or American sports cars get looks from civilians?
nope, no one gives a fuck about cars except for a few poeple. We ahve quite a lot of RAMs and Mustangs here in my part of germany, they fit fine (well, for an american car.)
>small parking places
Bitches please. I regularly drive a crew cab, short bed half ton here in Europe, and it's simply not a problem. Two Americans in my town (Army guys probably) own V6 Challengers, and it's not as if they've got issues driving them around. Insurance, taxes and emissions are, but road space simply is not.
>most of Europe has roads barely wide enough to fit a hatchback.
Wat. NO, just NO. A Camaro is hardly any bigger in footprint than a 5er/E-class/A6, so it will fucking fit.
>Do American muscle cars or American sports cars get looks from civilians?
Yes. Especially so because most will think a V6 entry level model is a 100K euro car after taxes. They aren't.
That's a cultural problem, not the car. It's fine to drive it in America but of course it will have issues in Europe. No one is arguing that fact.
I live in an area where Camaro's are incredibly popular and I hardly ever, if ever, see a nigger driving one. All I see black's driving are chargers and challengers.
It really makes me sad because I wish we could share our cars more easily with Europe.
>inb4 some shit poster says "Hurr no American anything allowed"
Just how I'd like to have a crack with some European cars. I am absolutely dying to drive an Alfa Romeo. I just want to be in person with a European, swap an American muscle car (my choice being the 2015 Camaro ZL1) and I'll take what they give me just so we can see what kind of reactions we get.
I would have loved to have said a 2017 Camaro ZL1 but it isn't out yet. The leaked video of it shows really fantastic potential.
I actually thought the visibility was pretty good in the Camaro. Worst I've seen so far is my gf's dad's CT200h, that thing's lack of visibility is just insane.
Hell, even a brand new Ram/Silverado/F-150 is an attentiongrabber here.
What I mean is I am comparing to what it is like driving one here in America compared to Europe. You will encounter difficulties compared to America. I'm not saying it's a lot or constant struggle. It will just happen every now and again.
Netherlands. Highest population density in Europe, biggest amount of roads for square KM apart from the statistical anomaly that is Luxembourg. I live in a small village, but I'm in a highly urbanised(?) area.
You will always encounter some diificulty - but you cannot simply say a Camaro is too big for European roads if it's as big as a a regular executive sedan. Now,a fullsize truck I can understand, but not a ponycar like a Camaro or Mustang.
Stop this. Roads aren't too small.
>Stop this. Roads aren't too small.
Dude I live in Geneva and I can't even find a spot to park a fuckin Fiat Punto
And driving a VW transporter is a big pain because you can't turn in most of the small roads
Europe isn't a single country. They're some place car friendly, and other where the state try to fuck you everytime you want to use your car
I do have to add that lorry driving can be a PITA in European cities, and that I've regularly drivin a crewcab/shortbed 1500 with a trailer through some cities. Takes planning and looking ahead, but it can be done. I really can't understand why people would ever whine about a fucking Camaro that's not even the size of their leasespec 2L diesel FWD A6.
They whine about the Camaro being "pigfat" and large because of the ass end sides. I like to call them love handles, it's also my favorite design aspect of the Camaro.
I am almost 100% certain that the entire reason most euro's say that shit is because of the ass end. To me it gives it a lot of unique character that you don't see in other cars. But that's just me.
You're a special case. You have a lot of imports etc. and I don't even understand why. I guess it's because you also have a relatively big bicycle culture, so it might be easier to find spaces. I live in cologne and you can't even find a parking place for a small car most of the time. The roads are full of SUV gold digger whores, that can't even drive and use two lanes at once.
Yeah, we've got more congestion than just about anyone in Yurop.
>lots of imports
That's because there are tax cuts for pickup trucks, as they're considered a work vehicle. Makes 'em cost 43K EUR instead of 100+.
Look better. Seriously.
Think about it. If they can find a parking spot for their huge SUV's, so can you.
>spoiled women can't drive
Some problems just ranscend borders anon.
>It really makes me sad because I wish we could share our cars more easily with Europe.
This so much, i wish more Europeans could experience american sports/muscle cars and i wish Americans could experience European cars that we don't get here.
It would close-up a lot of ignorance that people have who never even seen an american muscle/sports car before and just see them as being larger than even the largest Euro-cars and not being able to turn.
There are also a lot of euros who actually want them but can't afford/drive them (no RHD option). in the US american performance cars (especially the vette) have always had a price advantage and is cheap sporty fun kinda like a super-miata but because of the huge price-hike once they hit Europe it keeps them out of the hands of people who want them and those who can actually afford them would rather just buy a super-car for the price of some nearly 100,000k top-trim mustang/camaro.
I imagine that if the Z28 (track camaro) was brought over there at a fair price you would probably see some of them at the Nurburgring
>not being fully sick and importing a 70s-90s audm falcadore with a i6 turbo barra or ls
You get a better engine and lighter chassis and superior handling and something unique
Search your heart you know it to be true
>mfw Aussies literally invented the mustang and musclecoupe idea in the 60$
They live here and have reserved parking places. I'm more talking about open places. I have to drive a van, and you will bearly find a public place here, because they also park on two places quite often. Of course it's not as dramatic as it might sound, but I don't think it'll be easy to find a place to park here with a Dodge RAM, if you're allowed to enter the city, because muh environment. Plus the price for gas here will soon be high again, I'm sure.
I think it's fugly. Muscle cars stopped being cool after the 70's, 80's tops. Just like most other cars.
And without the looks and the rebel charms, it's just an ugly, oversized metal box to drive in. If someone gave one to me, I'd sell it and buy a car that does being a metal box to drive in better than the Camaro.
When you buy an American car in Europe, you have to admit to yourself that you're doing it as a hobby. The gas-guzzling, the size, the turning circle are all competely unsuited to life here.
>I have to ask and I don't want to sound like a total prick but why the fuck does Europe not invest in making wider roads and streets?
Speaking for my own country, that would take an impossible reengineering of our urban space, for little to no gain. Space is already at a premium, so I think you'll find very few people who would support larger parking spaces. Most cars fit fine, even big American SUV's. And anyone who can't get their car into a parking space, doesn't deserve their driver's license anyway.
Our cities and villages are fucking ancient, you have to remember. Most urban roads were made to fit horse and cart, and as a result European car development fit around our cities, where Americans could afford to build their cities around cars.
I'm Dutch, and we used to be very automotive during the post-war boom. But it came with an unwanted side effect: Loads and loads of children were being run down by cars. After this, a change was made to make cities (and the country in general) more bicycle-friendly. Which also meant less car-friendly. But I'd say not having to scrape hundreds of children from car grills every year is worth it.
We also have significant political elements (such as the Greens) who basically just hate cars. Fucking hate them, try to ban them everywhere, while being chauffeur-driven all across the goddamn country, because their idealism doesn't apply to them, of course.
>Do American muscle cars or American sports cars get looks from civilians?
And to this, yes. But only the classics, as far as I can tell. I haven't seen modern muscle cars get looks, and I don't give them any looks. As I said above, I think they're ugly as fuck. Kind of like the only reason you look at a Hummer H2 is to be amazed at its tiny wheels and ridiculous pretense that it's a proper offroad vehicle.
Back when I owned my 2005 Mustang I got looks from either kids who just knew what Mustang was, or girls who figured I had money and loved the convertible top. Other than that, people don't care because they are common as shit.
Those are some really strong opinions.
>When you buy an American car in Europe, you have to admit to yourself that you're doing it as a hobby. The gas-guzzling, the size, the turning circle are all completely unsuited to life here.
Why do you have to buy a car you like as a hobby simply because the culture in your parts are different? There's a reason people buy certain kinds of cars. Perhaps the man who is buying the Camaro in Europe like the size of it and thinks it is fun to spin around.
this depends on where you live in any part of the world. The 5th gen and now the 6th gen Camaro's range from 19MPG all the way to 30MPG. That isn't bad at all if you don't drive long distances. It isn't about collecting or being some sort of hobby, it's about the love of cars and the desire to own one and appreciate it for what it is.
But I do understand what you mean about certain places hating cars, which is an awful bit of luck but I mean at the same time who gives a fuck what they think right?
Why are muscle cars shit? I think it is unfair to just say a group of cars are shit without giving reasons why you think that.
Well that's unfortuante you don't like them.
In my opinion their isn't a more cool looking group of cars than a Camaro, Challenger and Mustang all rolling together.
Look Anon, I know it's much to ask you to use your brain for once, but "they fit" isn't the same as "they are suited for regular life here".
It's perfectly possible to drive a huge car in Europe. But that isn't the same as it being easy, you fuckwit. I mean, we do have cargo-carrying trucks going everywhere in our cities, but would you drive one to the supermarkert? No, you wouldn't.
If you're going to do a lot of urban driving in Europe, you want a car that's small and has a tight turning circle. And given our insane fuel prices so we can keep importing the Third World, it also makes sense to buy a car that doesn't use a lot of fuel.
You wouldn't claim a BMW 5er is unsuited to regular life here. Yet, it's got the same wheelbase(give or take two CM) as a Camaro. Modern musclecars are simply completely fit for our roads. I've had problems driving a fuckhuge truck here, but there shouldn't be a problem if you're an adequate driver in a regular American car.
>would you drive one to the supermarkert? No, you wouldn't
Driven truck+trailer to the supermarket on several occasions. Not completely useful, no, but I sure as hell don't have a problem taking a Ram 1500 to the shops.
>you want a car that's small and has a tight turning circle
Those are some nice opinions there anon.
>insane fuel prices
>add LPG isntallation
>convert to work vehicle
>zero taxes + cheap fuel
>each year they get better and better in terms of handling, interior quality and over build while still retaining the cheap price
>fun to drive
I mean now you are just being an asshole. Yes, the muscle car group is nowhere near the sophistication of European sports cars, but you know what? Those European sports cars are apex money when compared to the muscle.
Also one personal note I add is that no matter what European car I've driven, it has never given me as much satisfaction and excitement as a Camaro or Challenger or Mustang.
I've driven a GTR, M5, Porsche Cayman and a Audi R8 and none of them felt "fun" to me. They were proper cars and were amazing to drive but I never felt any joy from it really.
And going back to my quality is only getting better as time goes on, just take a look at the new 2016 Camaro SS interior. You can get it in a wide range of leather options and a couple cloth options and to me it looks fantastic. It doesn't look super serious or luxurious, it looks like it has some soul and fun. I like that.
>Why do you have to buy a car you like as a hobby simply because the culture in your parts are different?
Because it's impractical. There's nothing wrong with buying a car for a hobby, and you could use it as your main car as much as you like. My father has a thing for Land Rovers, and he drives the bloody thing everywhere. But he still has it because he likes the brand for reasons other than its practicality.
It's mostly just a a way of saying that you drive a car like this because it feels good. There's no practical reason for it. Nothing wrong with that, mind you.
> I mean at the same time who gives a fuck what they think right?
No no, these guys have outright banned cars older than X years from some city centres, and it's probably going to be a countrywide thing. Because muh pollution.
>no shitposting so far
good thread op. I always viewed american and european sports cars as adapted to their environments , so they have different standards of performance. its a shame we cant enjoy each others cars as easily as we can our own.
>cheap price for power
>build quality is fantastic
>has plenty of technological candies in it such as mode selectors, heads up display, a fast and responsive touch screen etc.
>compares incredibly well to even some of the highest European sports cars
These are facts, not subjective. The rest was an opinionated piece.
I had hoped it would stay nice and would bring in some good discussion since getting good discussion on /o/ is difficult sometimes, especially when it comes to American cars and ever more especially when it comes to American muscle cars.
I'm gonna speak for my part of Europe here (the Balkans)
As far as I can see it,most people here think that American muscle cars are nice,but they also off limits for a lot of people here.
They're pretty much exotic cars.
Also,most people here can afford to own one,two cars tops,so having a 300-400hp DD is simply not appealing.
Think about it,most cars in Europe range from 75-150hp.
Who says these are good things
Who says rwd is good
Who says the build quality is good ? Not me, who has driven muscle cars since he was a kid.
They do not compare well.
So who says they're good? Some moron on Jalopnik? An idiot on /o/?
You seem to assume that saying cheap price for power was an opinion, which it isn't. That's a fact, all I said was that it was cheap for power and nothing more which is a fantastic thing for people who cannot afford $100,000 sports cars, anyone will agree that a car that isn't costly that performs well and can even keep up with some top tier vehicles is a good thing. You'd have to be an asshole to say, "Oh, that car is not as expensive as this one so it's shit."
Also this guy likes it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjj7fBkcQCE
And Richard Hammond
And plenty of Europeans Anon's in this thread
And the people in this video seemed t like it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H83d9fTsMcY etc.
I'm always open to criticsm and up for a good discussion but sitting there just saying "It's shit and the reason it is shit is because I say it's shit." Is going to make anyone who wants a discussion completely ignore you.
Why didn't you address anything I actually said
This is an opinion thread and I gave mine, calm the hell down douchebag.
Muscle cars feel like absolute shit to drive, and only the shittiest worst kind of people drive them
it really is true
I don't think I've ever met a single person who drives a muscle car that I've liked
The rare times they're at track days that act like pompous assholes and just throw their numbers around
I don't think I've ever heard people refer to their engine in liters and use that to argue superiority before
>5.0 life dude
>haha 400 horsepower man
Every time I get revved at a stoplight? Its a muscle car.
If you don't like driving in straight lines then muscle cars are just really underwhelming
I mean, the same can be said for imports. Most of the imports around my area flaunt there shit while the muscle cars just sit back and relax because everytime they try to get involved all the imports do is talk shit about how their car is lighter and has shit loads of mods.
Not to mention most of them are loaded with body kits, stickers, stanced and constantly have their cars breaking down because they don't know anything about cars in reality.
I remember witnessing at a meet a guy who had a 4th gen mustang who literally only came to the meet to hang out and see some cars had at least 9 guys with imports come up to him talking shit about how there car has 19 turbo's and has all kinds of modifications.
>implying the Camaro is bad once the road starts to turn
Please stop being such an idiot.
They weren't. Then we had a massive program that gave us the interstate commerce system, and cities were then redesigned to work with this. Therefore, cities were in fact, planned around automotive logistics, specifically trucking.
>says they're shit
>Why didn't you address anything I actually said
Think its becoming apparently obvious he just wanted to bait people so there shouldn't have been a reply past the "lol you like shit" and the "lol can't turn memes"
>i just wish i could have cheap rwd but dometic rwd is for complete assholes
All pretty cheap and RWD and not from capitalist pig-dog country. you can engine-swap them if needed as they are often done.
Miatas aren't cheap? aren't they the best selling sports car on earth? you can find thousands of them in all countries selling for next to nothing can you not?
>example is a miata with 60,000+k miles
>honda FWD sports car
The guy is obviously trolling. Stop feeding him.
Also, to avoid hondafag hate. I'm not saying a properly setup Civic/Integra or Accord/Lude doesn't handle well.
What's your problem with Honda?
Ok? How does posting a miata for sale with no context prove your point? The point is there's nothing near ME right now, that's it. I'm not saying anything bad about the car. I have no idea why you're so hostile
>europoors forced to drive tiny gas sipping boring cars
>bitches about American cars
>europoors can't buy butter knives because "muh safety"
>bitches about American gun laws
>europoors forced to buy a TV license
>bitches about American television programs
I'm starting to see a pattern here.......
Here's the thing. Living at the portuguese countryside, I can assure you even the 5 series has a bad time here. Like it was said above, roads were built with horse and cart in mind, and most people are not willing to sell part of their land, so they can't be widened anymore. Hell, the road in front of my house can barely fit a couple of mk1 Clio's, let alone if one is a 5 series or a Camaro.
Might not be a problem at cities with recent planning, but it is here.
I'm europoor and more than anything I'm jealous about the US gun laws. Like fuck, I just want to own a AR-15 and nugget and go to the range now and then but noooo I have to go shoot a bb gun for a year and write a goddamn book about it before I can own a fucking 22lr for fucks sake.
Of course Mustang are expensive Dutchbro. That'' emissions taxes for you
Now look at pic related. You just gotta look for the tax exemptions, man.
Yeah, work vehicles get a nice discount. Hell, those discounts are the reasons that this shit sold over 11k units in the first week here.
Also, I wish they imported Holden utes into here. They'd fall perfectly into the work vehicle tax exemption, so I could actually drive a nice V-ate for under 30K (excluding some minor import fees, probably still well under 32K).
Chevy has the SS, which is just the standard Holden 4 door with a V8 and a Chevy badge on it. Online configurator even offers the stock Holden floormats, it's that bad. So, converting the Holden to ElCamino SS would just be a matter of a Chevy badge on the front, steering wheel, and back, and maybe an old Elco badge on the rear.
Friend of mine has a brand new 1500 as in >>14271596, just because they're cheap as fuck. It's his work vehicle. Guess what he does for a living that necessitates a big crew cab pickup.
HE'S A FUCKING HAIRDRESSER. WHATCHA GONNA DO WITH THE DAMN THING, GET A PALLET FULL OF NEW SCISSORS?!
Burger here, I hate the camaro, but only because of the shitty boomer retro styling and how pigfat it is. I like that they're selling a RWD V8 coupe with a manual and how cheap it is, but until they stop styling it like a first gen camaro overfilled with cake icing I won't like it.
I visited Italy last year and many of the roads there were small as fuck, they barely fit the tiny yuro econoboxes they had there as it is, much less a burgerfat veeate landbarge.
This, I would buy the fuck out of an FPV Falcon. Especially a ute or wagon version.
Tbqh Italy's city centers are so crammed you might as well park at the center limit and just walk. Way easier.
You gimme any other SUV that's as cheap to drive as an Outlander PHEV here. They've got tax benefits out the whazooo
Its the lightest pony car of the big three, what more do you want? You've got to accept the reality of the situation. Modern regulations make it difficult to keep weight down, especially considering this is a mass produced car.
No they are not, not at all and don't you ever fucking say something so offensive and disrespectful towards all European's ever again.
Every american car is a piece of absolute trash and anyone who tries to argue that is a waste of air. americans should be stripped of the right to make automobiles entirely.
I used to like new Camaros and Mustangs when I was like 16-17 and didnt know shit about cars.. now I only look at some of the the good JDM stuff, some Mercs but mostly BMWs. I realized that the new muscle cars, especially the camaro just looks ridiculous and too cartoony.
Even a simple V6 Challenger or Mustang is already considered a heavy weight, no pun intended, sports car whereas a V8 one is already considered borderline supercar.
Shit, even a basic American shitbox over here grabs attention, like a 94 Caprice for example.
average german cars have 1,8 l displacement, may be a bit less(diesel/gas 50/50), eurocars have about the same displacment, even a bit less(way lower diesel share)
mpg of a charged motor is a more intensifying function of rpm compared to uncharged, but most time you spend in car is traffic jam or city traffic.
but out of a test in a magazine comparing consumption of cars @ constant 180 km/h:
Audi A1 1,4 TFSI ~ 22 l / (100 km)
BMW 530i ~ 18 l / (100 km)
quite interesting to see
Because they're inefficient, ugly, can't corner, don't fit down narrow streets and into parking spaces, and because you just don't get the luxury stuff we're used to in smaller, cheaper cars.
>Chevrolet in particular is a problem as they're pulling out of Europe altogether
Fucking good. All their cars are ugly as shit, driven badly, and just rebadged daewoos.
The Corvette is the exception, because it's fucking pretty and not a daewoo. Still driven badly, though.
>I want to be coddled instead of going fast
>323hp and 30mpg(36mpg UK)
Have fun with your econoshit that gets a few more mpg and is slower than a Prius.
>don't fit down narrow streets and into parking spaces
Your first legitimate argument, good job.
>and because you just don't get the luxury stuff we're used to in smaller, cheaper cars.
Like what? Bluetooth, leather, heated seats, keyless start and more are available on the Camaro.
This is my daily. 01 M3 6MT.
I actually had a guy in a new SS pay for my food in the drive thru cause he liked my car.
American cars are nothing to be jealous over. Mine is stock, 15 years old and a true pony killer. Clips 60 in under 4.5 sec (cold pavement, bad launch and a lot of wheel spin) and all it has is a KN cai.
I think the difference is when you compare the price. The M3 was around $50k new while a Camaro Z28 was only about $26k. The new SS is about half the price of an M4 and probably not a whole lot slower.
Some guys get a great exhaust sound, but not with just the exhaust only.
Really I'd like a CSL airbox in the future to bring out the sound of the motor. Not really interested in exhaust. Maybe if I could get an F1 sound, but there are only like 2 on YT who've pulled it off. Don't know what setup they have.
Supersprint sounds great, but section 3 only, just the baffle area, sounds like a Honda. You need headers and sec 2. That brand is like $5 to $6k for a full set.
>car gets used for 20 years
>20 years usage of a performance car
No shit sherlock. Also if you treat your car properly, fix it up and always keep it top notch then it will never reach junkyard quality. The only time it reaches those levels is whenever you get lazy and refuse to maintain your car. Also 20 years is a pretty good gap of time for a performance car to see its wear.
I'm American as Apple Pie and Uncle Sam's throbbed war chub and I fucking despise the Camaro. It's everything wrong with the automotive industry in one package - an oversized, bloated, design by committee pill box on wheels wearing the title of a car it doesn't deserve. It's not a goddamn muscle car. It's an abortion.
Is there a reason that only about 5 people on this board actually know the specifics on the Gen 6 and everyone else just seems to echo chamber the problems of the previous 5 generations without acknowledging the improvements to the current gen?
Ignorance and bandwagon hate.
People STILL have yet to do any research on the new Camaro and realize that it is a full out properly made sports car that is a monster on a track and road. It's lighter by 223 pounds on the SS and 400 pounds on the V-6 model. Not a single piece of the car is recycled, every piece is completely new. Their are TWO pieces on the new Camaro that are the same as the previous gen and that is the SS badges in the front and back. Also something to note that is important that this board cares about is that the interior is no longer ugly cheap plastics. It has plastics but most of it is leather.
>different engine with more power
>completely re-made chassis
>lighter whilst still looking big and muscle like
>100x better quality interior
>0-60 in 3.9 seconds
>1/4 mile in 12.3 seconds
>18city 26hwy MPG
2015 Camaro SS produces 425HP and 420 lb-ft of torque. 2016 Camaro produces 455HP and 455 lb-ft of torque and so on and so on. Everything about the car is different and keep in mind this is just the SS and not the ZL1 or Z28, I have a feeling that the ZL1 and Z28 are going to blow a lot of cars out of the water.
I don't about the Camaro much but I saw one here in London a few weeks ago.
There's no reason why I wouldn't consider a muscle car in general except lack of RHD, but with the new Mustang (and Camaro I think?) coming in RHD versions that's going to change. And there's a massive billboard near me with an advert for the new Mustang so clearly Ford thinks it might do well here too.
pic loosely related
>And displacement doesn't equal size
That's what everyone mean when we say big engine.
Because they tax depending on the liter AND the horse power of the car, oh and if it looks sporty add some more tax, aaaaaand some on the insurance as well.
Posted this in another thread, but I love my old shitty 4th gen Camaro.