How fun a car is dependent on how much control the user feels they have over the car, how much feedback they get from it, and how fast it is. Let's say you're driving on the Touge. You're going down a short straight towards a turn, and you think to yourself "I'm going to let off of the throttle at this point, brake hard, then trail off the brakes while turning in hitting an apex here, then rolling onto the throttle straightening out".
In a fun car, you'll hit the brakes and the pedal will be firm with a reasonable level of travel, giving you good control over how much braking you are giving. The tires will bite, and the chassis and suspension being rigid enough will tell give you feedback on just how much the tires can take before locking, there is no "play" or "give" in your suspension that betrays your senses. You then trail off the brakes, and turn the steering wheel in towards the corner. There is no dead zone in the rack that is useless motion, and you have to turn the wheel the exact amount you intuitively feel should be to get the degree of turn you want, making you feel in control. Then the contours of the road and the amount of grip your tires are giving you is transferred through the steering rack, torquing the steering wheel and telling you what you need to do to keep the car on the path you want. The traction remains predictable, and even throughout the whole process, as you get enough feedback on your inputs to adjust the accordingly, the suspension is set up to absorb the road properly. Finally, your turn is complete and you roll on the throttle. You feel a large surge of force accelerating you forward, and if the car has so much power that you risk oversteer there is a sufficient amount of inherent balance in the suspension and weight distribution such that the car doesn't uncontrollably spin out as soon as the wheels break traction.
>>14252110 All of the fun is derived, ultimately, from the challenge. It is hard to drive fast through the corners, it is so busy and involving your brain is so stimulated. Being able to tackle such a challenge is what makes racing so fucking fun. What your brain needs is a car that can give you the feedback, does what you tell it to, and have the potential to go fast and give you that challenge you desire, where any mistake is only your fault, and not the car's. It lets you improve by being predictable, consistent and responsive.
This is why a 2200kg understeering 600 horsepower land rover might be fast, but is not fun in the slightest. You try and turn in, and it shudders in understeer, the brakes and steering are dead, there is nothing to learn from them, which is ultimately what makes driving so fun. The same reason why an old muscle car feels like shit to drive in the corners because of hte noodle chassis and the completely useless suspension cause you to lose grip and do unpredictable things in the corners.
This is the SAME reason why a 911 , an Elise, an Evo, whatever, are so brilliant. If you approach the corner at a high speed the brakes respond and you feel them, they turn in how you want and you can adjust, and feel them, and learn from them, and when you get on the power they pull.
A fun car lets you learn from it, gives you good feedback when you give it inputs, and it's fucking fast (driving slow is no challenge!).
>>14251332 >There is a reason the 86/FRS is such a good car. Anyone who complains about the power has no idea about how to car.
I'm driving a 160hp and 240Hp cars now. Have always driven slow cars fast. I still think the 86/FRS is a shit. Its way too much money for what it is. I'll like them in 15 years when they have depreciated down to 4k, right now they are a terrible deal.
>>14252396 >The FRS is basically the same car that the 240SX And this is precisely why I hate it. It is a car released 25 years too late.
The thing is, what they tried to do with the 86/BRZ is improve upon the AE86. So what we ended up with is a 2013 S13/14. We have already been here, we have already progressed through this step.
The S-cars took the idea of the AE86 and did it better. Stiffer chassis, independent rear multi-link suspension, more power, more refinement.
The RX-8 raised the performance bar still higher. Double wishbone front suspension, multi-link rear, both inspired by the RX-7. More power, more refinement.
If anything the 86/BRZ should have picked up where the RX-8 dropped the ball. They should have added simplicity and lightness but retained everything good that had progressed in the breed. It should have double wishbone front suspension. The engine should be well behind the front wheels.
Instead we got the stillborn evolution of the AE86 released 25 years past when it would have been relevant. Its the car we expected Toyota to follow up the AE86 with in 1987 instead of the FWD AE92. As much as they wanted to complete unfinished business times have changed, and the RX-8 set the bar for 2+2 every day cheap sports cars. This is the car they needed to have beaten, and they didn't.
You should be able to manually choose gear, steer, throttle, and brake without interference.
The car should let you feel what is going on between the road and the tires, the suspension and the body, the steering and the driver.
The latter is why a lot of newer cars aren't as 'fun' to drive, even if they come in manual and/or RWD - the lack of feedback is appalling, and the link between driver and car is tenuous most of the time.
I have more fun in my '91 turbo Pajero than I do in a Mazda6, and that old thing probably makes a third of the power while weighing more.
>>14255587 >I hope they introduce a flat-6 or terboh flat-4 at least. They never will because Subaru is paranoid about it hurting WRX sales. Also they will never release one with double wishbone front suspension because it's designed for that boxer piece of shit engine.
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