I've been offered a 5000 gallon tank of JP-8 jet fuel for free (the fuel, not the tank itself) with the only condition being that I take it away and store it myself. It's "contaminated," that is it's the test fuel bled from aircraft to check for water in the fuel, etc. No actual contamination besides that and maybe some sediment in the tank.
Is it safe to run a modern car diesel engine on it?
It might run fine in the shitbox for the couple of days I test it, then six months later I find out it's destroyed the internals of my daily drive.
It's a $60000 car, I don't want to fuck it up. I'm getting some mixed answers off Google, some seem to say yes, others say no.
Need some help from the experts, /o/. Free fuel for the next decade would be pretty fucking sweet if it's not going to cost me that much in repairs because of it.
Well from wikipedia it says:
"Apart from powering aircraft, JP-8 is used as a fuel forheaters,stoves,tanks,by the U.S. military and its NATO allies as a replacement fordiesel fuelin the engines of nearly all tactical ground vehicles and electrical generators, and as acoolantin engines and some other aircraft components. The use of a single fuel greatly simplifies logistics."
However I have no idea if it will work on your particular engine, your best bet, is too ask other forums, research yourself and make a choice if you want to use it or not
for some anecdotal evidence, my friend works with a guy who has run JP8 in a diesel car for several years
interestingly, but not related to your question, this car is actually registered as a petrol engine, which the guy swaps in for inspections for the tax advantage (diesel cars pay around $60 per 1000km in NZ)
Have heard you can expect reduced power compared to heavier diesel.
In Aus our regular diesel turns solid in subzero temps. One trick to stop that is add kero. They sell alpine diesel for cold areas also.
>Hello this is AlfaRomeo Dealer and I'm Brian, how can I help you?
>hi, umh, I was wondering if you guys ever tested jet fuel in one of your diesel engines.
>yeah, let's say I have this huge tank of jet fuel lying around and I wanted to use it on my diesel alfa, would you do it? I'm sure you mechanics deal with jet fuel powered cars all the time.
>*sound of hanging up*
Could the classic 2% 2-stroke oil mix help? Then again, Alfas all use common rail injection, meaning that there is no mechanical distributor pump to lubricate. Only the injectors, but they don't require that heavy lubrication. And btw, where does a diesel Alfa cost 60k? Even fully equipped 159 jtdm q4s were cheaper. Personally I would try it out with something cheap, like e.g. Peugeot 306 HDI before risking more expensive cars. Definitely an opportunity to get huge savings in fuel if OP has the means to store all the fuel.
There is an high pressure pump to lubricate too in common rails, and I could argue that it needs more lubrication than a distributor pump (I am just speculating tho) considering it shits out fuel at ~2000bar versus the few hundred bars of a distributor.
Regardless of the system, there is always an high pressure pump to lubricate
True. However, I wouldn't think that the lubrication requirements for the high pressure pump would be as high as for a mechanical pump. Afaik high pressure pumps are not as complicated by structure as distributor pumps. I would be more worried about the return valves in the injectors. I am speculating as well. Best bet would be contacting Magneti Marelli, that has designed the system. If kerosene is similar to "winter diesel" sold in northern Europe, then there shouldn't be any problems.
Naval aviation bro here, we use jp5 and jp8 in our diesel tractors and I have heard of people using it in their trucks too. Can't say what would happen in the long run but the tractors are all fine.
The only issue you may have is that I believe that jp8 has less lubrication than regular diesel.
If anything will fail its likely to be the fuel pump.
I wouldn't hesitate. Fuel pumps are cheap anyway.
How long does JP8 even last? I've heard before that petrol only lasts for 6-12 months before it'll not run properly in the engine.
I would have thought gasoline would last forever if it was stored properly and pressurized.
>I would have thought gasoline would last forever if it was stored properly and pressurized.
and it does. With no where for the most volatile components of the gasoline to evaporate to and no where for moisture to get in, gasoline will remain just fine.
you drive a $60k car but can't buy fuel for it?
Hows this though anon, you take the tank, put it on CL saying "NEW NEVER USED FUEL HALF PRICE NEED OFF LOT NOW 100% UNCONTAMINATED" and get 5 years of diesel money for it.
High pressure fuel pumps are anything but cheap, at least in my yuropoor country.
They price them in the thousands of euros.
The low pressure fuel pumps in the tank are cheap, not the high pressure ones
>get thousands of gallons of potential fuel for your car
>consider the option of using them
>hurrrr lol OP can't afford gas what a cheap ass
As if you wouldn't do the same, given the chance.
OP here, just an update. Spoke to the dealership. The mechanic had never heard of it and was a bit confused as to why I'd want to run my car on jet fuel. He said he'd make a few phonecalls and get back to me. Will keep you posted.
if it was me i'd buy a cheap-o diesel merd (W123 comes to mind) or a 940 or something similar. if it's gonna work, these should be able to take it
They are getting rid of it for free because it's probably fucked and they don't want to pay a ton of money to some hazmat company to take it away for them.
JP8 is used in U.S. Military vehicles. To use in a civilian diesel you either need to mix it with some regular diesel or buy lubricant to add to your tank everytime you fill up.
JP8 will last a long time, way longer then gasoline.
It is really hard to tell. Both seem to have a definite need fore lubrication. How about that 2-stroke oil in a lean enough mix?
I searched some Finnish car forums and the consensus seems to be:
-Many people use 2-stroke oil with winter diesel, because winter diesel is 70% kerosene. The paraffins are reduced due to viscosity issues and therefore the lubrication is decreased.
-It is considered as an "old school trick" to smoothen the sound of the pump.
-Mechanical pumps generally benefit from using 2-stroke oil, due to modern diesel being "drier" than older standards
-2-stroke can be also used in common rails, however some are insecure about using it with piezo injectors (or Bosch Pumpe Düse)
-2dl/tank was most commonly advised as mixing ratio
-For cars with catalytic converters, oil with no ash was strongly recommended. E.g. 2-stroke oil designed to be used in outboard boat engines
-For cars that have DPF use of 2-stroke oil was generally not advised
Maybe JP8 can be used in some modern diesels with 2-stroke oil.
JP8 should burn fairly well in a diesel engine. My only concern is the viscosity and lubricating properties of the fuel may be different from diesel and you may burn out your fuel pumps.
If i were you, I would run half a test batch part JP-8/ Balance diesel, increasing the quantity of JP-8 after each tank.
Personally, fuck the truck 5000 gal of fuel is approximately 10k, and enough to last the lifetime of a vehicle.
Adding motoroil or 2-stroke oil will probably clog up your EGR pretty fast. Also I don't think the turbo would enjoy it much.
>>14240166 is probably your savest bet
I am very curious though. Wouldn't hesitate for a second if you could run the jetfuel in an old Fiat Croma diesel or something along those lines
diesel mechanic here, just want to confirm that YES high pressure pumps do need the lubrication from diesel. i've never heard of people putting 2stroke oil into winter fuel but it doesn't sound crazy to me, i've heard owner-operators (as in, the truckers that actually know their shit) add 'diesel conditioner' to winter fuel to compensate for the "dryness"
now, if i was you, i would take a sample of that JP8 and send it somewhere that does chemical analysis. if there are any diesel engine pro shops around, ask them. they give you a chart with what's in your fuel, what SHOULDN'T be in your fuel (like metal particles) and how much of it, an overall rating of quality. i mean if that shit is full of metallic dust or extra high in water, you might want to reconsider
Thanks for all the advice guys.
Got a call back from an Alfa dealership interstate. They told me the same thing I've been reading all through here - the JP8 has lower lubricity than ordinary diesel fuel and that it would cause additional wear on various parts of the engine. However, if the service schedule is adhered to the affected parts would be replaced before they failed anyhow, and with an almost brand new engine I won't have to worry for a long, long time. He also wasn't sure how it would affect the power output, could go either way and may need to have the computer recalibrated.
All up I think I'll take it off his hands. Will get it tested as >>14240441 suggested and if it's all good I'll run it. If not, well, I'm sure I'll be able to find some use for it.
Thanks again anon.
Also, just for the record, it's a 2015 Alfa Romeo Giulia. One of the first launched in Australia.
If its a bit rough one of these may get rid of it. They are supposed to be good on biodiesel.
my dad used to run jetfuel in his racebikes back in the 80's. it definatly works on petrol engines, shit m8 go out an buy a shitbox for less than a grand, skim the head to a decent compression and run a massive carb. would be hilariously fun
The mix idea is what I'd do. You can even mix some gasoline with diesel and it turns out ok. There are those who put old motor oil in their diesel engines, too, but I'd avoid that because of what's accumulated in the oil.
You will absolutely need a diesel fuel additive to increase the lubricity. I'm assuming you're not from the States so I'm not sure how the quality of your diesel fuel is, but here we have ultra low sulfur diesel, and the lubricity of it sucks compared to low sulfur diesel. Current ULSD is shitty on your engine and that extra lubricity is critical to keep pumps and injectors flowing. JP8 is far worse and will wreck your injection pump unless you put in a decent amount of fuel conditioner.