Can /o/ redpill me on BMWs? Are they unreliable overprices trash or actually very nice cars?
I have a friend at work with a modified 335I and they're fine cars. Just everyone knows a person who has a horror story about their personal experience with a BMW, and very expensive fixes with german company prices are typically much higher than domestic here state side.
My friends 3 series has a clutch that slips but that's because he's a shitty driver and ruined the stock clutch lol. His last 3 series was wrecked but I believe it needed an underdrive pulley and it was some outrageous cost for him to get anyone to do it.
Depends on a variety of factors including years, how well previous owners have taken care of them.
Typically a well taken care of model can be very reliable, but people forget that they aren't Honda and do require vigilance at the soonest something does go wrong.
As well the older the model (e46 and earlier) the easier they are to work on and more, reliable overall.
One thing I will say is that I have never driven one that was unsuited to what was asked of it when pushed to its limits.
the numbers i throw around are;
$1500 a year in parts and fluids
roughly 6 hours of one weekend per month, on average, fixing or maintaining stuff.
for that price you get something that's really hard to beat for daily driver comfort and fun and style...as long as it's an e46/e39/e38 or earlier
Germans over engineer most things because they enjoy keeping their dealers happy
Fucking new BMW's don't even come with dip sticks anymore and advise you to take it in for certified service or some shit instead of doing it yourself. So labor at a BMW dealer is going to fuck you harder than the price of whatever part you need replaced will.
not hard, just takes longer to do things because you spend more time taking things off and putting things back. luckily there's a massive amount of DIY guides on the various forums and youtube, especially for the e46/e36
All german cars are complex for no good reason.
The reason repair cost are bad is the labor your paying for, parts, while yes more expensive than something you would buy for a Ford or a Chevy, are typically only 25 to 50% more expensive, and even then thats if you're stupid enough to buy from the dealership and not an independent parts distributor.
If you want to buy a used BMW, you had better be able to work on it yourself, otherwise don't bother.
Yep labour is pretty steep. Here it's $140 CAD/h. I just picked up a CPO 328xi. I have six years of warranty. If it's been a cunt in that six years I'll be getting rid of it after warranty. If it hasn't had a lot of issues I might keep it, or I might get an E90 M3.
Here's your true redpill:
Pre E36 BMWs are well built and reliable as fuck. After the discontinuation of the E30 BMW reliability went steadily downhill, price of maintenance and repair when steadily uphill.
Anyone who disputes this either
-is a bmw fanboy
You mean maybe an hour every month? Because that's about the amount of time Ive spent actually having to fix or a replace something on my e39, still fun as fuck to drive
Whereas you could probably neglect shit on your Honda but its still a washing machine with wheels?
>i like my overcomplicated shit that gets literally beaten by a 50 year old truck motor in a 20 year old chassis
Ok whatever faggot
E39=All other BMW
Holy fuck look how deluded these fags are
THIS THIS THIS
suit yourself m8. comfy dd, nice smooth highway cruiser, still hustles pretty good on the back roads, and looks good.
even the 06's getting way on in years don't have that much go wrong with them, just the major well known stuff like the water pump/thermostat which you replace once, and the valve cover/oil filter housing gaskets.
every car is different but it's really not bad at all on the e90
>poorly kept saltbelt car rusts to shit
>people blame the saltbelt
>poorly kept saltbelt BMW rusts to shit
That happens to everything, dude. Not just german trash.
It has a formula
>someone asks about BMW
>haters point out problems
>fans try to defend and point out strengths
>owners admit problems
>other owners advise on fixes
>owners and fans never admit they are shit
But they really are shit
Yet my honda regularly passes BMW's when they're on their third lap a already in limp mode
>I seriously doubt the new CTS-V is significantly less complicated than the new M3.
Maybe, the Engine is certainly less complicated because of the fact that GM V8s or American ones in general are less complicated than german ones.
>not the person you originally replied to
328i is a great fucking car.
not a biased owner though, pic related
You might be thinking of the ATS-V that's the one that targets the M3 and has a Turbo V6
spent probably $4k in preventative maintenance and restoring the interior to near-new condition over the past 3 years. nearly all suspension bushings and wear-prone components replaced.
here's one more of just the e90. 78k now, average 22mpg, minimum service required. more reliable than my friends vtak "racecars"
some hate it, others just dislike it. i just think it's something different
How are they to drive?
I'm an avid Jaguar fanboy, but BMWs have been catching my eye recently. I've heard they are engaging and fun to drive, while not being ridiculously fast, and they use inline 6 engines which I fucking love. Tell me about your car, anon.
Bought a 330ci and did not regret it. You really need to have a good eye when you are buying the car. A BMW can take a beating but unlike a honda or toyota it cannot take neglect. That's something that a lot of people can't seem to grasp and inevitably end up complaining about preventable problems
Watch out for the condition of the car you're buying though, that must be stressed, they vary by quite a lot
E46 is an excellent chassis. My car isn't quick at all, but is extremely connected feeling and precise. it's also one of the best and most modern looking 15 year old cars on the road in my opinion and many others feel the same
going to second this, i probably should have kept looking instead of buying my particular 540i, it was in rougher shape than i thought and rougher than the prepurchase inspection indicated. I got too thirsty since i have been searching for like 4 months and had missed out on like 5 other pristine examples.
pay a little more for a really nice condition example
yes, one of 300, but i was searching nationwide so i'd see like one pop up every week. most are pretty rough, mine looked in better shape than it was, and like i said i wasn't fast enough to buy some others.
there was one with a blown transmission that had been fucking babied its entire life at the dealer, service every 5k, clean as fuck, but the dealership in california was cagey about selling it because they weren't sure if because it cannot pass CA smog because its not driveable if they could sell it out of state.
i kept on them like every other day asking for updates on it if their legal department could make it work.
then i get a call saying it was just sold to some guy in illinois. i mean what the fuck? Turns out that guy who bought it had been in the car dealing business and knew how to talk to these people
Do you even know what you're talking about? What is exactly is over engineered about the M54?
Funny that you talk about cost cutting and you probably drive a Japanese car, AKA "we forgot to design the interior, slap something on there and make it as cheap as possible"
just off the top of my head
>Electricals over complicated and known for being extremely expensive to diagnose and replace
There answered your question
actually i hate to agree with him but all my interiors in jap cars espeically toyota since 1990s has been terrible
the 2008 prado and 2010+ looked/felt horriffic and kept breaking
lol at all of these people who don't have bmws but bash them anyways
>2001 330i steptronic off of lease in 2003
>dad's car while I grew up
>little bro got my honda accord when he turned 16
>6 track days/year
>10 time trials/HPDEs/year
the things a force in TTE and STX locally
biggest issue we had with it was that the OE from the factory blower motor just recently started to go, replaced it with about 2 hours of work in a cold garage
>bmws are unreliable
what a meme
Nice car anon. I would have really liked to find one in white, ended up with jet black though.
The E46 is really timeless. I love the design.
I agree on this. It's over engineered but not unreliable, they chose bad material for the seals so any car that hasn't had them replaced is going to be a bit slower than it should be, but that's all that's a common issue with it.
Doesn't really have anything to do with the engine. Sensors might be a little bit sensitive to being covered in dirt. Expensive to replace because they're very precise and going with anything other than OEM for sensors is going to cause problems.
I've owned 2 Hondas, 3 Toyotas, and a Nissan. They were all horrible and fell apart all the fucking time. The only one that was okay was the Nissan but it was a Z so I certainly expected it to be good. Drove my mom's 2012 Sentra and it gave me cancer so clearly Nissan isn't an exception either.
They aren't bad cars, it's just buying a used one is incredibly fucking risky because 99% of them are owned by non-car people who bought it for the badge and never maintained it properly.
Honestly if you're going to buy one, buy new or make sure you know the cars history.
>mfw all the ls1's problems are just mainly ticking lifters due to oiling problems and dumb owners
certain things are expected like gaskits leaking over time and shit but what i am saying with bimmers is that they are just over complicated overpriced and under performm
See he even admits VANOS is silly and there is inherant design flaws because OVER COMPLICATED
Just because I hate it when people aren't specific I'm going to list exactly what was bad about each of them because I'm not on my phone anymore
>2001 Honda Odyssey
cloth trim fell off literally everything
stitching on seats is weak as fuck
rubber weather stripping around windows comes off all the time
door handles weak as fuck
automatic doors frequently break
the transmission also shit the bed after 20k miles because apparently it's not strong enough to pull a van
sounds like a wind tunnel at interstate speeds
>2009 Honda Civic
This is probably the worst interior I've ever experienced. I don't even want to write it all up. The short version is the turn signal lever feels like it's going to break at any time, you can't see fucking anything, and the car sounds like a wind tunnel.
>1998 Toyota Camry
steering wheel is extremely low quality, it turned into some sort of weird black gummy substance.
Probably the lowest quality leather in existence, ripped literally everywhere
I think just about every button or knob fell off the radio at some point.
Arm rest storage compartment broke.
Cup holders broke.
Cloth area below radio began to peel up.
Every piece of fake wood trim slowly detached itself from the car over the years.
Shifter did the same thing with the weird black gummy substance.
Car sounds like a fucking wind tunnel.
The rest of the Toyotas were basically the same issues so I won't write those up.
Seriously, do Japanese car makers even try to reduce cabin noise?
I'm not some BMW shill. Of course VANOS is stupid, everybody acknowledges this. The fact that it's a 'fix it once and never worry about it again' thing kind of makes your point moot though. $60 in parts and an hour of labor isn't anything to make a fuss about.
>being able to finely control cam timing
yeah okay. as said they specced the materials wrong.
a piss poor show from highly paid professional engineers but it happens a hell of a lot to be getting worked up only when bmw does it.
no doubt your favourite car has a bunch of issues too (that you choose to ignore)
various broken interior bits
some suspension components on their way out like bushings
rear hatch air shocks completely dead
some oil leaks
sun damage on the front pumper and the A pillars and the rear spoiler
rock chips on bumper and hood
just....rougher than i would have preferred
Yes, the older ones more so. It gets pricey when the bigger things need replacing like water pumps, but that can also be mitigated by buying parts your self and installing it watching some youtube tutorial. Also avoiding dealer ships
It depends on the model.
Newer ones like the E90 335i need a lot of fuel system maintenance because of direct injection. Turbocharged models need everything to be in tip top shape at all times because when dealing with high compression if everything isn't perfect something is going to pop.
Something E46/E39 era will definitely survive on regular maintenance though. You just have to keep in mind that at the age they're getting to electrical motors are going to start to wear out so electric door locks and window regulators will need some attention. Probably fuel pump, too.
BMWs more so though, because it's a "prestigious" brand that suits and soccer moms flock to. No regular non car person has ever seen somebody driving a mazda and thought "That guy has made it, what an inspiration" but for some reason that applies to german cars because of the misleading marketing.
The suits and soccer moms are okay, because they generally buy them new, service them regularly because warranty, and then sell them after a few years to get a new one.
The second owner is the one you have to worry about, because that's when you start getting niggers and teenagers buying them to get a cheap status symbol.
This can be somewhat mitigated by buying a manual.
I have a Camry on which the driver's side window controls don't work whatsoever. It's not the switches in the door and it's not the fuse.
Quit being a retarded faggot.
Maybe if you weren't such a poorfag you could've bought a better car.
rear subframe mounts in the early ones otherwise you're usually good to go
yeah I am past 200k now and I have had the exact same experience. it burns 1qt/5k miles, it shrugged off -5f temps the other day
they publish maintenance schedules that you can find online. afaik they spec o2 replacement and cooling system replacement every 100k that's the only strange ones
Oh, and it's got some kind of weird ground loop so when the headlights turn on the gear indicator changes to reverse and the low wiper fluid indicator comes on.
And it burns about a half quart of oil a week.
And all the window regulators and lock actuators have failed at some point.
I did buy a better car.
>bought e34 v8 for 3k
>no cup holders, passenger window fubar
>bbs 17"s, subs
>first 3 mo, water pump, coolant pump burst, $1500
>2 mo later, coolant hose dock fails, need new radiator, $500
>crash into house
>nothing majorly damaged besides paneling, torn-out oil sensor
>4mo later, rebuild driveshaft, $600
>leak in power steering fluid, must refil every ~month
>yr and a half later
>car needs work but still pushes past 120mph on the every now and then
I knew NOTHING about cars before buying, now I can't get enough. Bmw my regrettable favorite
Fuck me, I'm starting to want one. No one said this would happen. I've always hated BMW with a passion.
I think I'm set on an e46 facelift, coupe or sedan doesn't matter. They're not awfully expensive, either... Damn
if you've looked at BMW threads before you've probably seen this but
>stock cooling system is dildos
Basically all of them will have had this replaced.
>VANOS seals dried out
Basically all of them will have this problem unless you buy one owned by an enthusiast. It just causes you to lose some low end torque.
And rear subframe as the other anon mentioned.
the N52 engine is pretty solid. It's not direct injection so there's very little to worry about. Even on BMW forums the 328i guys don't have much to complain about, other than olnotorque.
thats why i got mine.
My current Jag cost me 1800 smackers. I doubt I'll ever be this satisfied with any other car, especially for the money...
That being said, I really want a Bimmer to hoon around in.
Obviously bigger is better but they're all the same otherwise.
Just avoid automatic transmissions. They have the combined downsides of being both less reliable and more likely to have been driven by a normie.
There's no way I'd get an automatic. Completely defeats the purpose.
1995 XJ6 Vanden Plas. It's fucking amazing to drive or to ride in... I really can't stress that enough, nor can I gloat enough about how reliable the car is. I get compliments everywhere I go.
I can help you buy a used one if you're interested. I personally wouldn't buy outside of this generation--1995-1997--but the V8s that came afterward are damn fine, too. They're just... less of a jaguar, and come with unique issues such as tranny failure and chain tensioner issues.
My car is bulletproof, honestly.
>pic related, <2000 Canadabux worth of wood, leather and steel
They only came in manual in Yurop, unfortunately.
The good news is that the tranny will take whatever you throw at it, and still be comfortable when you're driving home burnt out at 4 am.
They're becoming rarer for sure. Since picking mine up, I haven't seen many more on CL. The ones I have seen were snapped up pretty quickly, or were retarded dealerbot postings. They're a future classic for sure. Like I said, EVERYONE compliments it, even though they have no idea I payed less for it than their Civic cost them.
Decent on gas, too.
I had a '94 E36 325i with 100,000mi, crummy interior but mechanically sound, probably the best automotive experience i've had so far
I loved the low seating position, solid gear-shift feel and floor mounted gas pedal, and the inline 6 rasp
I fixed the roof liner, seat adjuster cables, high-pressure power steering hose
when i sold it, it started to leak through the front windshield cowl, which makes the speedo fritz, and let water into the foot-well. front driver seat had also split, the leather is probably my pet peeve with bmws, they are high-maintenance items and go stiff very quick
after 4 years of the ferd 250 i have to say the amc wins
>EFI not shit
>more revvy and not a lazy boring engine like the intec/barra
>makes torque all through the rev range
>makes great power all through the rev range
>easy as piss to work on
Only downside is the aftermarket is non existant but the engine is pretty much at its max from stock, 150kw is pretty good as is 350nm from a 20 year old engine.
apparently there is cams and stuff out there for them but it would kinda ruin it
>pretty much at its max from stock
I only disagree with this part. My brother has fucked around and gotten insane results on his racecar Spirit. That's without any boltons, too, just the stock engine with some thirsty carb tuning. I can't imagine what it would be like boosted; I just know for sure that it could handle a FUCKton.
>easy as piss to work on
Wire up the angel eyes as daytime running lights. Get clear turn signal indicators. Buy a sheet of moderate window tint and put it over the tail lights if you really want to get ricey.
Get some bigger injectors, for start. Not sure what else I can recommend. Since my entire family is AMC obsessed, their knowledge is sort of limited.
>tfw everyone in my family owns/has owned a car with a 4.2 AMC I6 except me
d e v i l i s h
Good luck with your tuning. Those engines kick some fucking ass.
It ayy lmao car, makes the BMW lovers cringe which is tits.
And it drives better than Saloon/Coupe and you still get that fucking nice interior.
>London has fallen.
big time. Bunch of apes.
Sorry mate, i am not a nigger. So i cannot be an ape.
It is ewww but fuck it its cheap.
When people see the car go past or see it parked, they don't see you, they see the car and will assume that you're an ape, be it a white ape or black ape or brown ape...Still an ape.
Really? I quite like e36 interior, except for the absolute cheapest ones on the list, but that goes for the e46 as well
guy we are talking about 2000 euros car, not 12.000 euros.
And every E36 that i came across had shitty interior, everything would crack rattle its just cheap as fuck. While E46 where much more well made.
I know guy who owned a 335i from 0-110k miles. He absolutely loved the car, replaced the induction coils and nozzles under warranty, then he changed the electric water pump for 1400$ at the dealer. Everything else was perfect.
how can one person get it so right
WHILE THE REST OF YOU ARE GETTING IT SO WRONG
No my 7 series was owned by a doctor before who took care of it so it has still just needed gas and brakes with me. Same with my e39 5 series i had. The 7 is just a behemoth with a big v8 that rolls on though there great.
THATS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DRIVE YOUR CAR LIKE A NIGGER AND DONT EVER FUCKING WASH IT. I have an e39 525i that looks identical to your's except its mint as fuck because i actually clean it. Its not the car's fault, its your's.
>new BMW's don't even come with dip sticks anymore
By the time it tells you your oil is low your engine is likely going to be fucked. I'd rather not have my engine seize in the middle of nowhere or going down the highway at high speeds.
1)That's not true at all
2)You can easily check the level from inside your car after 5 minutes of warming up
3)You're an idiot, don't cry about shit you don't understand
Before you cry about not being able to visually check the oil, almost all BMWs use a drop in oil filter which lets you check it at the filter itself.
I've owned 2 E36's in the past 6 years, a pre-facelift 320i and post-facelift 328i. Here are the issues I had with both:
1994 320i, 240,000kms (5 years ownership)
>Sump gasket failed
>Power steering hose leak
>Driver's side power window mechanism bent due to a misshapen seal
>Gauge cluster experienced intermittent loss of power due to a faulty factory solder joint, easily fixed
1997 328i, 230,000kms (1 year ownership so far)
>Sump gasket needs replacing
>Suspected power steering hose leak
>Squeaky rear suspension
With E36's at least, I can say that they reliably break down in certain areas (power steering hose, cooling system components, gaskets) but all other aspects of the car are spot on. Cost for parts (even in Australia) isn't that bad if you source them from wreckers and all repairs are well documented on sites like Bimmerforums. Almost every problem has multiple DIY threads and there's a tonne of online support for home mechanics. Knowing these issues and performing preventative maintenance may make your life easier, but I know there are many local BMWs that withstand long term abuse without fault. They're no Corolla in terms of reliability, but they're nowhere near as unreliable as some people make them out to be.
I've got a pair of lenses with clear indicators but I've been putting off installing them because I have a 2003 and BMW decided to use the strongest fucking glue in existence so I have to saw the assembly apart.